Don’t insult me Squared Circle… You don’t know what you’re talking about.. Barbell presses up to 500 pounds have often been used by heavyweights, and advocated by their strength trainers.. It’s not my method of choice.. Rahman was doing 450 benches before he KO’d Lewis.. You can ask Rahman if you don’t believe me.. However, barbell presses DO widen out your chest and you can’t turn your wrists pushing up a barbell like you can do in a more flexible punching motion with a dumbbell. Dumbbell bench presses isolate the punching muscles better. I never looked at body building mags and give a damn what bodybuilders do and don’t care for the sport, which builds monsterous muscles for no athletic purpose but posing for judges and photos. GTFOOH with that beauty contest crap. It’s for faps.
Shane Mosley also was doing squats and bench presses with very very heavy weights before he whipped Oscar De La Hoya to become the NUMBER ONE P4P fighter in the world after their 1st fight. You can ask Shane about this yourself.. Those routines make you super strong but the leg press machine is better for a boxer than squats with a barbell across the shoulders.. The reason you use 100 pound dumbbells is you get very very strong until you can do more than 15 reps very very easily.. Then you add more weight until you can only do 10 to 12 easy reps.. Than you build the reps up to more than 15 and add weight again.
And I have trained 100′s fo boxers so I know what I’m talking about.Posted May 31, 2013 8:45 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
Wrong again, TARK! Good thing you’re not a professional trainer because you’d be ruining guys physiques, and consequently, their boxing careers.
1. You can’t teach a gorilla to throw correct punches because he is too big and too strong. Period. Same reason why you’d have super hard time teaching pro-bodybuilders to throw punches properly.
2. 100 to 150 dumbbells are WAY too heavy for boxers, even HWs, to be lifting in the gym. Those are some of the last exercises a boxer should do to improve their jab or straight punches. Further proof that you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Ever looked through bodybuilding magazines??? Didn’t think so. If you had you’d know that pro- bodybuilders prefer dumbbell presses over barbell presses. Dumbbell presses are actually a more effective chest builder than barbell presses are — especially for bodybuilders, as they develop chest mass in the middle and outer pectoral muscles. Dumbbells are also more difficult to balance, so the stabilizer muscles will also get big faster. You would NEVER catch a Klitschko lifting weights anywhere close to that heavy. But you would catch them swimming laps and throwing loads of punches under water.
3. The heavy dumbbell presses you’re promoting here ARE bodybuilding exercises, NOT sports strength-training exercises. They will build a lot of MASS in your chest and shoulders rather quickly. The result is a huge, bulky, gorilla-type upper body. An upper body so big and tight, that you’ve impaired your range-of-motion, flexibility, speed, and punching stamina – which are all major factors of high-level striking power.
Please stop now TARK and don’t force me to embarrass you further. I’m starting to feel a little sorry for you at this point, and I really used to like you — before you blindsided me like a mugger.Posted May 30, 2013 5:07 pm
its not even a fight, its a scam.Posted May 30, 2013 3:15 pm
How will Vegas play this, a 36 year old that cherry picks against a big 22 year old with almost as many fights? An assumption that the 22 year old is slow and not much of a boxer, a typical mexican fighter? Why a catchweight, if they both hold 154lb belts? Who will be the ref? Intangibles that lend themselves to the question will it be a staged event or a legit boxing match that could become a fight? Just wondering if dollars ($) will determine the outcome more than actual abilities.Posted May 30, 2013 10:12 am
@Squared Circle…., The 1-2-7-3… Depending on what numbering system you use — and I’ve been taught 8 of them by various trainers — is a jab… straight right… left hook to the liver… left hook to the head.Posted May 29, 2013 7:34 pm
LMFAO guys…. Anyway Squared Circle, you say, “Those are totally different muscle groups.” … No they’re not totally different muscle groups.. They’re all involved in punching. Triceps do dumbell presses or pushups — triceps also fire jabs and fire straight rights. With plyometrics you actually propel yourself off the floor a foot or 2 when you do your pushups, to develop added explosiveness.
Of course you’re not just going to do strength training.. You’re also going to punch focus pads, punch double-end bags, punch speed bags, punch heavy bags, and spar a ton of rounds. You’re going to do your traditional boxing workout for a couple hours. You also have 22 more hours in the day to work with if you’re a full time boxer … and an hour of that time can be spent on strength training. Strength training isn’t endurance training … but it enhances endurance anyway.Posted May 29, 2013 7:28 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
Tell me TARK, exactly what is a 1-2-7-3 combination??? I’ll give you a hint: it’s a favorite among Mexican fighters like Canelo. I’m waiting…Posted May 29, 2013 7:23 pm
your giving this guy a lot of credit.Posted May 29, 2013 6:55 pm
Forget about your skinny little monks… The hardest puncher are big heavyweights with big powerful arms.. Do you expect Michael Spinks to punch as hard as Mike Tyson??? Do you expect Floyd Patterson to punch as hard as Sonny Liston??? I guess not.Posted May 29, 2013 6:27 pm
Squared Circle.., 1. Your gorilla example just doesn’t make sense. A guy with gorilla like strength can develop into an effective infighter because he’s so powerful in the clinches. His punching power would be great if he’s that strong. If you could teach a gorilla to throw correct punches he could throw them very hard.
2. A heavyweight’s jab or straight right power can be greatly enhanced by bench presses with 100 to 150 pound dumbbells. If you can do 15 reps easily and quickly you’re pretty damned strong. Barbell presses hurt a boxer’s performance because they build out your chest. They don’t allow your wrist to turn naturally when you press—like your wrists do when you punch. Dumbbells isolate the triceps, deltoids, and other punching muscles much better than barbells. They allow for more flexibility and more imaginative workout routines. There are many other sport specific tweaks the best strength trainers teach. Dumbells is just one example.
3. Muscle growth is associated with body building NOT with sports strength training. In boxing you’re not usually trying to add size unless you’re a heavyweight who wants to get bigger. Haye has talked about his strength training regimen so I know some of his methods. The best strength trainers will often tell you some tricks if you just talk to them.Posted May 29, 2013 6:22 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
Happygirl – You’re just gargling TARKS nuts because I’m fully exposing Duckweather for hiding from Canelo. And it breaks your little fan-boy heart to see your hero’s reputation shattered and swirling around the toilet bowl. Time to take down all the lil’ Floyd posters from above your bed… LOL.Posted May 29, 2013 4:05 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
High-level striking power — whether we’re talking about punching, kicking, elbows or knees — is the result of the combination of the following factors: balance, leverage, torque, flexibility, agility, timing, explosiveness (fast-twitch fibers), coordination, and often times speed. Physical strength is associated with muscular development, and too much muscular development can easily impair and undermine all those crucial factors of high-level striking power.
Example 1: There are hundreds of skinny, little Shaolin Monks in China who can punch and kick with tremendous explosiveness and power. These men live in primitive monasteries and have never seen the inside of a gym with weights and strength-training equipment. Their striking power comes from constantly practicing effective techniques combined with all the crucial factors listed above. NOT from doing hundreds of chin- ups and push-ups every day.
Example 2: A silver-back gorilla is one of the strongest in the animal kingdom. Put him on a football field with a team of huge, super-strong pro-football players and tell them to attack and kill the ape. The gorilla would win by throwing the 11 men around like rag-dolls, smashing them into the ground, and ripping-off their arms and heads. The point is that although the gorilla has phenomenal strength, he cannot punch or kick very effectively. He is too big and too strong to be an effective striker. The only strikes he can throw with real power are downward hammer fists. And interestingly, we see this exact same phenomenon with men who’ve spent too much time in the gym pumping iron, getting big and “strong.”
Chin-ups and push-ups are also very much stamina/endurance exercises, as there are guys who can do tons of those who are not strong in the weight room. (I used to wrestle with some guys like that). Actually, being able to do a lot of chin-ups and push-ups is NOT a very good indicator of how tired your arms get after throwing 1000 punches across 12 rounds. Those are totally different muscle groups, so it’s like comparing apples and oranges. Sparring for 12 rounds IS a good indicator of how tired your arms will get in a fight!
You started this whole strength debate by giving examples of hard- hitting old timers (Liston, Frazier, Foreman, etc) who didn’t do any real weight-training — which actually proves my point more than yours. And now you’re changing you’re tune to David Haye, the “modern boxing world” and modern strength training. You’ve never been at Haye’s gym or training camp, so have no idea what type of exercises he does… LOL.
Sounds plausible to me.Posted May 29, 2013 11:52 am
Squared Circle, you’re way off base… Strength is important in the modern boxing world. Why do modern boxers lift weights and employ professional strength trainers??? Listen dude…if you’re super strong for your weight your gloves feel like feathers. Let’s say you can do 35 chin-ups or 400 push-ups without getting tired. You’re not only super strong—your arms never get tired in a fight. You can beat a much bigger man if you’re a heavyweight. What allowed David Haye to wipe out Dereck Chisora, who was 37 pounds heavier? Not just outstanding boxing skills. Not just a great body attack. Not just great hand and foot speed. Haye is a very strong man for his size, and he didn’t get there in a year or two or three. He’s been painstakingly polishing his strength training routine for over a decade.
Strength is one element—like speed, skill, tactical genius, strategic brilliance, psychological warfare, physical toughness, cardio conditioning, endurance, mental preparation, and all the rest. It ranks high as an important factor. If you were a 211-pound man fighting 6’7” X 250lb heavyweight who had great all-around boxing craft such as Vitali—would you rather have the physical strength of Eddie Chambers or David Haye? Because if it’s Chambers, you get destroyed.Posted May 29, 2013 11:43 am
Squared Circle – you ain’t no Lionking, you’re a WIMP. Tark is ripping you to pieces. This is a sad case.Posted May 29, 2013 5:22 am
Also Ali beat Frazier twice, not the other way around. And Frazier certainly wasn’t as skilled as Bob Foster. He was much bigger and stronger and that’s why he ran over him… Come on. Joe was a walk-in left hooker and that’s why Foreman killed him.. Foreman was not super skilled, but much bigger and stronger.Posted May 29, 2013 2:20 am
Squared Circle…. Don’t get upset.. I’m just countering your arguments. I’m not attacking you.. I feel very strongly about size, strength, weight, and the way there’re used on a boxing ring to enhance skills.. We have weight divisions and not height and reach divisions. Willie Pep was one HELL of a lot shorter than Chalky Wright or Sandy Saddler, but he had to fight them because they were in the same very light weight class.. Same with Floyd when he fought Corrales.. And Gomez vs Zarate.Posted May 29, 2013 2:14 am
Squared Circle writes… “Actually, “strength” is NOT much of a factor in boxing at all..”
NO??? Then why was Floyd Patterson so scared of Sonny Liston??? Floyd was just as tall as Sonny but gave up 25 pounds of pure muscularity and strength. Michael Spinks was 4 inches taller than Mike Tyson with a much longer reach. But when they stripped for the weigh-in Spinks almost had a heart attack.. Tyson only weighed 6 pounds more than Spinks (218 for Tyson to 212 for Spinks). What do you think MS was so afraid off??? Tyson was 3 X as strong as Spinks, and that would scare anybody half to death.
David Haye, “These heavyweights are much bigger than me, so I have to be so much stronger than them. That’s double the work. There’s nobody as strong as me for my size. If I came in there like Eddie Chambers I’d be crushed.” … So I guess it is important.Posted May 29, 2013 1:53 am
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
TARK, you wrote: “Size, weight and strength are 10 times as important as reach or height.” 10 whole times? Really? What a tremendous exaggeration. Actually, “strength” is NOT much of a factor in boxing at all, TARK. Punching POWER is and those two very different things. Boxing is NOT a contest of “strength.” If it was, they’d test guys on the bench, squat, dead-lift and clean – like the World’s Strongest Man contest. In the least, they’d test ‘em on how many push-ups and pull-ups they can do. The other major advantages you failed to mention are SPEED and STAMINA. And the lighter, leaner fighters – in this case Mayweather – usually have the advantage in those areas. See how easy it is to quote someone when they slightly misspeak and tear them a new a-hole, trying to undermine their credibility?? You sound like you’re now defending Floyd on refusing to defend his Jr. MM titles vs. Canelo at 154lbs. You’re sending some really mixed messages here, my friend. In fact… you’re all over the place. I choose to disengage at this juncture, as opposed to locking horns, so I sincerely hope you choose the same path.Posted May 29, 2013 1:08 am
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
TARK: That was mean of you. In fact it was an unwarranted, particularly nasty attack that has me a little shocked. We have been allies throughout many feuds on ESB over the years, so I have no choice but to completely re-evaluate my formerly-held high opinion of you. So now you’re quoting my sentences like I’m the President or Jay Carney, then dissecting them like Faux News? Wow. Cutting weight and dehydrating is a major part of boxing, like in wrestling, and always has been. If you want to change it, start writing complaint letters to the commissions and alphabet-soup organizations. Good luck with that (wink, wink). Clearly I was NOT talking about skills advantage. It is generally more important to have the reach and height advantages — especially at the lower weight classes – than a weight advantage after re-hydration. The examples you listed are exceptions, and mostly about the heavier weight classes:
- Nunn dominated Toney for 10 rounds and would’ve won if he didn’t get caught. Sometimes fighters get caught and everyone has a “punchers chance” – especially the bigger men.
Of course no sane person would match MW Williams vs. HW Ibragamov. That would be against the fundamental rules of boxing, so is a ridiculous statement to say the least.Posted May 29, 2013 12:58 am
Correction: half quart, none of the geniuses out there caught that math gaf. Too bad, because the prize was a whole lotta Rosie.Posted May 29, 2013 12:07 am
To me the Cinnamon Kid IS elite.. I thought he would beat Trout by a bigger margin. He’s a very underrated boxer and I can’t figure out why. He looks a little boxy and raw shouldered, so maybe that gives some people the impression he’s slow and slow thinking … but he’s no plodder like Gene Fullmer. I think that’s who people mentally compare him to because he’s so strong. He does have much better skills and terrific hand speed that Fullment didn’t have. He’s very difficult to out-box or out think. He doesn’t brawl. He takes his time and sets up everything he does. Fullmer took a zillion punches and Canelo takes very few solid shots. I actually think it would be a massive win for Floyd if he could beat this much bigger and stronger kid and I really want to see it.Posted May 28, 2013 11:05 pm
Bottomline Floydie is gonna smack this Cinnamon kid around, right now his just playing with him, building up the suspense. Cinnamon is in for a rude awakening when he finds out what it’s like to fight an elite fighter.Posted May 28, 2013 10:28 pm
KO – u r an idiot.Posted May 28, 2013 9:48 pm
Tark – that was mean, exposing Squared circle like that. Hearns was taller but his skills were slightly lower than SRL. Did Mike Tyson ever face a boxer with the same height as him? Height without skills is useless cause you won’t even know how to utilise it to your advantage.Posted May 28, 2013 9:46 pm
@Squared-Circle…, You wrote, “Everyone who knows anything about boxing (clearly doesn’t include SREDMOND) know that’s it far more important to have the reach and height advantages.”
Better height and reach gives you a small edge—not a decisive advantage. A few inches of reach and height can be easily overcome with better skills.
James Toney clobbered 6’2” X 82” reach Michael Nunn—who was a 36-0 southpaw—the number one P4P fighter in the world. The short squat Toney had a slight edge in power and skill.
Joe Frazier made short work of Bob Foster—who was one of the greatest light heavyweights ever. Frazier gave up 6 inches in height and 10 inches in reach. But Frazier had 25 pounds on Foster, who looked like a string bean.
What good was Paul Williams’ tremendous height and reach advantage over Sergio Martinez? Paul got crushed with a punch that was harder than he could ever throw. Who would have matched Williams with Sultan Ibragimov based on his massive height and reach advantages? No sane person.
Size, weight, and strength are 10 times as important as reach or height. We have weight classes—we don’t have height and reach classes—for that reason.Posted May 28, 2013 9:17 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Oh just shut up Tark…Posted May 28, 2013 8:07 pm
Whatever.Posted May 28, 2013 7:36 pm
“dollah-dollah-bills y’all” are “Money’s” spinach. enough of those on the table and cue the Popeye theme as Floyd prepares to perform as only Floyd can. the only thing Mayweather “fears” is no longer being the highest-paid athlete in sports. otherwise, he’s a keen and fearless Mfr whose loathe to risk four additional mega-paydays in one fight. conversely, give him his due, read his price, and provide him with adequate compensate (i.e., the equivalent of several PPV paydays) and Mayweather puts it all on the line. Floyd simply refuses to be used and abused for peanuts. otherwise, he’s proven that he’ll take on all comers for the right price.Posted May 28, 2013 7:17 pm
W.K. is not American, so why MUST he fight in US ? US is not the only country in the world ! He’s European, he fights in Europe, so what ?! It’s not his fault, that Americans don’t accept european boxers. But it’s funny, that all the things you say about W.K. , the others say about Floyd. Isn’t it ironic ? lolPosted May 28, 2013 6:30 pm
Floyds NOT generally regarded as more boring than Wlad as evidenced by how many people pay TOP dollar to see FMJ fight… Klitschko cannot give his fights away in the US and he is the HW Champion… Floyd would NOT even lace up for Wlads thus far BIGGEST purse bid against Povetkin 17 mill his share… Mayweather might be boring as HELL to you but he is scoring BIG time with paying customers who put 85 million in his pocket last year… Boxing is entertainment and its impossible for the MOST boring entertainer to make WAYY more $$$ than anyone else… Expectations at HW are different than WW… FMJ is appreciated for amazing boxing skills, HW is more power driven which Wlad has but his hugging and his terrible no name opponents have left him in Siberia for all intensive purposesPosted May 28, 2013 6:18 pm
Dopes like Sredmond keep denigrating Canelo’s accomplishments. Canelo is only 22. Floyd still had a unification fight with Corrales ahead of him when he was 22 and hadn’t dominated a division. Alvarez has won 7 world championship fights and is regarded as the best fighter in the world at his weight. Canelo has many fights because he turned pro in lieu of a long amateur career. He opted to make money which is what poor kids in Mexico do. He learned in the paid ranks instead of college. Canelo has already said he would fight Floyd. It’s Floyd who is scared. Canelo is the richest, most prestigious, and most talked about opponent out there for Floyd. If Floyd refuses to fight Canelo he’s playing the same game as Sugar Ray Leonard—who was stripped of the middleweight title and fought as a bogus super middleweight—rather than risk being smashed by Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, or Julian Jackson. Floyd has already proven he can beat World Champions at 154, but he won’t fight the Cinnamon Kid. This fact will become clearer and clearer as time goes on. Before he faced Cotto Floyd was asked the following question.
Q. “Why are you fighting Cotto at 154.”
A. “I want my opponents to feel comfortable. I want them fighting at their best weight.”Posted May 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Floyd is a surgeon when it comes to picking who he fights. Roy Jones promoted himself the same way (im not comparing their skills).Posted May 28, 2013 3:22 pm
The hype and the money is all only because of his DADDY.Posted May 28, 2013 3:14 pm
Sredmond what ?! Most watched athlete in THE WORLD ?! Really ?! LMAO ! That’s definitely NOT Floyd, thats W.K. !Posted May 28, 2013 2:40 pm
Sredmond, most watched athlete IN THE WORLD ?! Really ?! LMAO !Posted May 28, 2013 2:35 pm
This guy is right but I don’t think may will fight him at 154Posted May 28, 2013 2:26 pm
Reality is that if guys are looking for someone at 147 who has more than a punchers chance of beating Mayweather then they should cease watching till he gets older and slows down even more… Guys want to be obliged with a loss or a titanic struggle… Floyds just too good, too slick for that.. You wanna se “Rock’em Sock’em Robots” go watch Rios/Alvarado or Coralles/ Castillo…. Floyd’s a surgeon appreciated for superior craftsmanship…Posted May 28, 2013 2:21 pm
Smoke and Mirrors… another mismatch. They are trying to sell the idea that Floyd is ducking Canelo. Canelo is almost in front of you all of the time. Floyd doesn’t even need to run in this fight, he wont get hit. He doesn’t have the stamina of Castillo, the relentlessness of Augustus to even give him a real fight. Not a PPV fight to me. More like Shobox.Posted May 28, 2013 2:16 pm
Mayweathers an OLD light hitting fighter that deals with Multi-aweightChampions, HOFers he and Canelo have had close to the same
I tried to watch welterwight fights, but it’s really not exciting… but I’m shure, Canelo will win over Mayweather.Posted May 28, 2013 11:23 am
Canelo has not been tested. I don’t care what anyone says. Canelo is following the same trip that mayrunner followed —- old over the hill fighters and untested light-hitting fighters.Posted May 28, 2013 11:17 am
Canelos NOT a PPV star the last Mexican PPV star was ODH who was loved and connected with the mainstream due to his Good looks, Gold Medal, and fluent command of the English language the Golden Boy was the PERFECT commodity… Canelos NOT Oscar and outside hardcore fight fans he’s not bankable absent an A side player at this point…Chavez Jr is the only guy when pared with Martinez to do a successful PPV where HE was the A side…The muppets will pretend that Marquez, Margo and Guerreo sell fights like hot cakes but that’s nonsense because absent Mayweather, PAC and Cotto NONE are on PPV and all get small
Well, this headline got to read an otherwise useless article. Yes, we all know FM is a master negotiator, he has played many tricks to have his demands met. But, don’t forget, he walked away from potentially the two biggest earning fights in history with DLH 2 and MP. He knows how to negotiate, and the fact that he will leave hundreds of millions of dollars on the table makes him an even more serious negotiator. He is a boxing master in and out of the ring. Love him or hate him, we all know it’s true.Posted May 28, 2013 10:07 am
Dapreacha- you need help son. Trout vs Mayweather? Whats Trout gonna do? Throw jabs all night? Oh yea that has blockbuster written all over it. Trout has reach but he doesnt use it as much, he brawls more than boxes, thats why he got caught with Canelo and got dropped. Trout’s plan was to jab Canelo and exchange power punches in between to intimidate Canelo and throw him off and keep him frustrated. That may have worked against Cotto because he is a short fighter in that weight class thus easier to push back. In the Canelo fight; Canelo DID respond with his power and you saw the end result. By the way Mayweather is more “slick” than Trout, you do the math.Posted May 28, 2013 9:51 am
Boy! Do I see a lot of ugly genetics in that profile shot of Floyd. Think Uncle and Sr. LMAO!Posted May 28, 2013 9:30 am
BS article title to suck us into reading a worthless article. Worse yet, we responded to it!Posted May 28, 2013 9:28 am
Sept. of 2020 ?Posted May 28, 2013 8:47 am
KEEP UP THE PPV BOYCOTT!!Posted May 28, 2013 8:13 am
Mick the Marmalizer
Don’t laugh, but if Alvarez / PBF can’t be made @ 154Lb I’d like to see Canelo come to the UK & fight Ex British champion Brian Rose or more to the point undefeated EBU champion Sergio Rabchenko who is after all WBC silver champ. The exposure Canelo could gain by fighting in Europe would do him no halm what so ever.Posted May 28, 2013 4:57 am
Floyd has really not a memorable knockouts quotes. C’ant understand, how Peej can call him “the greatest” . He’s not.Posted May 28, 2013 3:38 am
Definetly hbo will have to broadcast canelos fight if floyd fals to come to terms and who are the mexicans gonna watch and pay for? Canelo or floyd. Bahahahahahaahahaha! Good luck floyd, good luck showtime. Goodluck nut garglersPosted May 28, 2013 1:18 am
Canelo is too big for Floyd. Floyd fought Cotto at 154 weighing 147 and DLH at 149lbs. Canelo wlaks around at 160 dude is really a middleweight, Oscar already said he is not coming down to 147, like Floyd needs alverez? WTF he is undefeated same way he didn’t need Manny if they want is title or the chance to knock him off his throne come get it. Same way the ghost did by moving up to challenge Floyd.Posted May 28, 2013 12:45 am
Floyd has the PPV history and rightfully COMMANDS what he COMMANDS. Anyone not in the MAIN event with Floyd, Floyd treats as an undercard Fighter. Canelo doesn’t want to be an undercard Fighter anymore because of ego…..SO Canelo is going to have to stand DOWN on this one…..unless he agrees to the Fight vs. Floyd of course.Posted May 28, 2013 12:20 am
Well if that is the case then I case he will be figting on a different date. If they both where to have PPVs the PPVs would be cut in half and that is no bueno for both fightersPosted May 28, 2013 12:15 am
Canelo won’t accept what Floyd is paying him to be on the PPV. That’s why he didn’t Fight on his PPV last time. Floyd takes 90% of the cut after the network takes their share. Canelo is not taking 5%. The undercard Fighters have to make a little money TOO.Posted May 28, 2013 12:14 am
What is gonna happen is that they will both be on the same PPV just dual sitesPosted May 28, 2013 12:04 am
I’d be much more interested in Trout vs. Maywather.. Not just cuz I thought Trout won, which I did, but because I want to see Mayweather battle someone tall and long ranged…anybody with me? Can I get an Amen, ladies and gentleman! Can I get a yessir Let The Good Lord Makka Good Fight! Hallelujeah, yes indeed, somebody stop me now!Posted May 28, 2013 12:03 am
Floyd beat Mosley more decisively than Canelo did. Or more worse. So what does that say about Canelo?Posted May 28, 2013 12:01 am
Largo…. You just have to wait for more fights to happen.. I’ll be proven right as usual.. Canelo was beating Shane very easily and learning a ton from him every round.. Canelo is a boxer not a brawler.. He takes what you give him.. If you’re Josesito Lopez and give Canelo a ton of opening he’ll take you out big time … How many times has Shane Mosley been stopped??? … Exactly.Posted May 27, 2013 11:56 pm
Canelo DID nothing but Defend for long stretches in the Trout Fight and he WON that one by ROBBERY. Trout outlanded him and out worked him. But Canelo improves rapidly and would beat Trout legitimately in a rematch.Posted May 27, 2013 11:50 pm
TARK, you’re a very stubborn man…take 40 minutes of your time & watch Canelo/Shane & comeback here & tell me you don’t see an stamina issue; Merchant & Manny comments came outta the same frustration one goes thru by watching such a young fighter being active for a minute every round & taking so much time off; one senses he could stop these guys with a more sustained effort.In fact, the same frustration arises in the Trout fight, why can’t this young lion maintain an steady pressure when he’s being successful in his attacks? but instead, he takes these long breaks from the action…Trout is NOT ELITE, an elite fighter will make Saul pay…if you still don’t get it, then there’s nothing i can do. Let’s move on.Posted May 27, 2013 11:36 pm
Canelo won’t have any big time American network to show his Fight IF he attempts to Fight someone else on Sept 14th. Showtime is already invested in Floyd and won’t dare to defeat THEMSELVES by putting Canelo on regular Showtime OR a rival PPV vs. Floyd. SO Canelo will only make gate revenue on that unless he just goes with a Mexican network. HBO has already SAID that they aren’t working with Golden Boy Fighters anymore…SO IF Canelo doesn’t face Floyd on Sept 14th he’d be SMART to take a seat on the SIDELINES. Like he DID last time.Posted May 27, 2013 11:35 pm
Canelo is ramping up the pressure on Floyd by taking his PPV date whether he gets the Floyd fight or not… He’ll try to wreck Floyd’s PPV numbers… And guess when Canelo’s next fight after September 14th will be if Floyd still refuses to fight him??? You guessed it.. May 5th 2014 … LMFAO!!!Posted May 27, 2013 11:31 pm
Yes it was close and there are many people who thought it was close. Fighting for 30 seconds to a minute in every round only wins you the rounds if you fighting where you are the hometown favorite like SA or Cali would be. Trout even felt he won and he said that the one judge with his ridiculous card should be investigated. Sorry but the fight was close. I thought Trout would win a decision but in no way was I rooting for Trout so my vision was not clouded. Yes Canelo showed some improvements but his stamina will be a major issue agains an elite fighter. Why do you think he has only fought smaller guys. Trout was his first legit 154 pounder. I had Trout winning. Unfortunately he was down 4 to 0 from the start in rounds.Posted May 27, 2013 11:31 pm
Showtime is already getting a return on their investment. Go take a MATH class. Floyd’s last Fight generated no less than $60 million in revenue where he was guaranteed $32 million. Robert was guaranteed $3 million leaving $25 million to cover the rest of the expenses….Showtime made some money but of COURSE they would like to make MORE as everyone else in the World DOES.Posted May 27, 2013 11:30 pm
If Mayweather doesn’t fight Canelo on sept 14 and they both keep their dates they’ll probably be on the same card, so Mayweather won’t be hurting as much as some wish for.Posted May 27, 2013 11:28 pm
I think Alvarez would be a hard fight for May, just because of the size advantage, and the fact that he’s no slouch. But I would still favor Mayweather by UD, and I can’t see why some think Alvarez souls stop Mayweather when lesser fighters have already went the distance with him. The fight would be fought at Mayweather’ pace which wouldn’t gain him anymore props with his detractors.Posted May 27, 2013 11:26 pm
Canelo is sticking to the sep14th date too. If floyd doesn’t fight canelo his ppv numbers are gonna be destroyed unless he fights pac or martinez. Lol. Canelo is doing his crafty negotiating. Canelo really hurts floyds ppv when he backed off floyds card and headlined his own. PEEJ- no way no how no matter where or who the judges were did trout beat canelo. It wasn’t close. Trout couldn’t land anything effectivePosted May 27, 2013 11:24 pm
If Showtime wants a return on their investment they should pressure Floyd to fight opponents that will maximize the PPV. If Floyd fights Alvarez in September the numbers will be huge. Mainly because Alvarez will attract the lions share from the latino community. Business is only smart when you take advantage of the opportunity. Several years back had Floyd fought Pacquiao the PPV would have been massive but that opportunity fell apart. The same can occur for the Floyd vs Canelo oppt’y and I expect that it will. Floyd wants to preserve the “O” and will not fight a young and true 154 pounder, less it be a journeyman.Posted May 27, 2013 11:09 pm
Canelo wins this one by KO if it’s negotiated at 154. If it’s at 147.. Canelo wins by UD.. Mayweather is AWESOME but Canelo is AWESOME and young.. not a good combo if ur his opponent.. just sayin’Posted May 27, 2013 11:07 pm
A b level fighter doesn’t become an undefeated World Champion and whip an ATG fighter like Miguel Cotto, who just came off a good showing vs the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world.. Trout was a solid A caliber fighter as an addition to Canelo’s resume.Posted May 27, 2013 10:58 pm
I don’t bend my analysis because some clown like Larry Merchant has a different viewpoint… And Manny Steward hasn’t watched Canelo for a long time, because he’s DEAD!!! You have to read my last post to understand what a fighter with stamina issues experiences at this level.. He gets his ass beaten. I believe Kessler has stamina issues.. He couldn’t step it up when he was way behind, and that’s a sure sign. He barely finished the fight, much less had any chance to win.. If you are dehydrating and rehydrating 18 pounds from the weigh-in to the fight the next day, that in itself can cause stamina and strength issues — but Canelo has a very young and resilient body … Apparently he’s up to the weigh-in ordeal, because I didn’t see any sign of weakness or flagging. Some people have vivid imaginations and spot things they expect to see. I don’t let my mind or bias play tricks on me, and focus on what’s actually happening in the ring.Posted May 27, 2013 10:53 pm
TARK, if you don’t see an stamina problem, that means you disagree with me, Merchant & Emanuel Steward & you don’t believe your own eyes watching him fight. So far, the best oposition for Canelo has been a b level fighter in Trout who couldn’t push him when he was resting & wasn’t punching with any conviction…& still the fight was very close. Elite fighters are called ELITE for a reason & Canelo is yet to face one; if & when that happens, Canelo will pay dearly in those very common moments when he’s taking his long breaks from the action, that i can assure you, in the mean time, let’s just agree to disagree…Posted May 27, 2013 10:32 pm
Peej- trout got smoked and dropped and couldn’t land anything meaningful. There was no way under any circumstances that trout won that fight.Posted May 27, 2013 10:26 pm
Canelo did not look awesome against Trout. I thought Teout won by a round. If they where anywhere else other than Cali or SA I bet it would of been a split decision. I won’t argue Canelo winning but I can argue the ridiculous scoring by a judge. But I thought Trout won by a round. Even the round he got knocked down in should of only been a 10/9 or 9/9 round because Trout dominated the rest of that roundPosted May 27, 2013 10:22 pm
Given how cotto looked against floyd then how bad heloked against trout and how awesome and fast and powerful canelo looked against trout. You got mosely jacking floyds jaw, you got cotto making floyd look vulnerable. Of course canelo could beat floyd that’s why the excuse machine is rolling out of the mayweather camp like make 147 even though ortiz was 160 something when they fought. Even though cotto and oscar were 150 something. 50cent was right floyd is scared. Floyd might look good against guerrero but gueerero is a featherfist at lightweight let alone ww. Guerrero never was and never will be a ww. Is slow and has to be set to punch. If mayweather can’t look good against the gueereros of the world then he’s totally an utterly washed up. Mayweather won’t look fast against someone as fast in caneloPosted May 27, 2013 10:11 pm
Fighting for only 30 seconds to a minute a round and then looking gassed late from time to time means you probably have stamina issuesPosted May 27, 2013 10:06 pm
With the body attack Floyd does and the stamina issues Canelo has I think Floyd could stop him late. Doesn’t matter if he hasn’t stopped anybody as of late. He almost stopped Cotto and looked close to doing something with Guerrero in like the 8th or 9th round. I’ll take him by late round stoppagePosted May 27, 2013 10:05 pm
@Largo… How many times has Canelo gone 12 rounds? He has no stamina issues. What is he going to do when he’s waaaay ahead and assured of victory, if he’s smart? He’s going to make his opponent do the leading to try to get back in the fight. The idea that he was breathing hard, turning red, gasping for breath, or flagging at any time in the most important fight of his life is a fantasy. If an opponent is exhausted you take advantage of him by attacking him. Trout found that impossible to do as hard as he tried. Every time he tried to mount a charge Canelo had plenty for him. He tried in vain to work his way back into the fight — and he WAS an undefeated world champion many considered the best in the world at the weight. When Foreman was gassed out, even feather hitting Jimmy Young knocked him down and almost finished him in the 12th… Jermain Taylor ran out of gas and was dead meat for Carl Froch… That’s what happens to exhausted fighters who lack stamina. They lose. They don’t finish the fight fresh as a daisy without a mark on them, and beat undefeated World Champions.Posted May 27, 2013 10:04 pm
i challenge anybody to youtube Saul fights & comeback here & tell me if you don’t see how economical this 22 years old is with his punches. He just can’t sustain an steady attack & takes long brakes without punching; this weakness hasn’t been exposed because he hasn’t fought anybody in the elite level but that’d change if he fights Floyd or GGG or Sergio or Pirog. You can take that to the bank.Posted May 27, 2013 9:41 pm
Holy CANOLY!!!! Woo Hoo!!! FINALLY…. YES!!! Ok now that I’m calm… this is gonna be a freakin’ do fightO!! Canelo by KO in the later rounds.. 10th or 11th.. in a THRILLER… YES!!!! just sayin’Posted May 27, 2013 9:30 pm
TARK, i’m starting to question your common sense, like you i think Canelo has good composure, poise, good combinations & good pop in his punches BUT for gods sake, why don’t you admit-like did Merchant & Steward-that Saul does have some serious stamina issues; if you admit that to be the case then i don’t see why is illogical to think that Floyd could very well knock’im out with body shots…i fail to see why that’s so hard to get.Posted May 27, 2013 9:29 pm
Continue to Boycott PPV!!Posted May 27, 2013 9:11 pm
but only if alvarez comes down to 144. This is too funny for words!Posted May 27, 2013 9:06 pm
Floyd by UD win or Canelo by ROBBERY. I am the GREATEST fight Prophet ever born!!Posted May 27, 2013 8:48 pm
Alvarez is not ready right now for this fight Floyd Mayweather, jr. wins this one rather easily.Posted May 27, 2013 8:06 pm
There you go floyd this is a great start to have a true legacy, I suport you 100%, from taylor michigan. You will pick him off. I got great respect for you taking this fight floyd. Cant wait to see the fight and you wipping canelos hind end. Everybody should be renting this fight, if you a maywearher fan rent the fight its a part of history you dont want to miss.Posted May 27, 2013 6:07 pm
Floyd couldn’t stop Canelo in a million years… He may win on points but come on… Floyd hasn’t knocked anyone out but Ortiz, who even Josesito Lopez stopped. A points win is tough too. This kid his razor sharp and you don’t beat Trout by out-boxing him like Canelo did. Everybody thought he’d have to go after Trout because he’s the better boxer. Time to think again. Canelo didn’t have a mark on him.Posted May 27, 2013 6:02 pm
Floyd has much better movement and reaction speed than Trout. He stood toe to toe with Cotto and everybody is making a bid deal about that. Trout did not stand toe to toe with Cotto, he moved on Cotto. And when Trout fought Canelo I actually thought he won by a round. Though like I have said many times that I can’t argue with Canelo winning, I can only argue the score card. That being said, Floyds stamina and defense is enought to stop Canelo late, 10th round and up.Posted May 27, 2013 5:52 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
The title of this article is a complete and total LIE! An attempt to get everyone in an excited frenzy and their wet panties all up in a bunch. The fight has NOT been made yet. Period. And to assume that it will definitely happen, while praising the psycho dynamics of Floyd’s perceived “Jedi mind-tricks,” is preposterous speculation at this point.Posted May 27, 2013 5:14 pm
I’m thinking Floyd won’t take the fight after seeing Alvarez-Trout… If Cotto could damage an aging Floyd with his jab but couldn’t reach a youthful Trout — and if Canelo could knock Trout down from 5 feet away with a straight right lead — then Floyd has to be wary of this 22-year-old with lightning fast reflexes and deceptive speed.Posted May 27, 2013 5:13 pm
I’m thinking easy money just like the last fight!Posted May 27, 2013 4:51 pm
This fight could be easily one sided. Mayweather would have to be ko’d to lose. No fighter today can out “BOX” MayweatherPosted May 27, 2013 4:49 pm
Canelo will never agree to fight under 154 lbs, and if a 154 lbs Canelo puts one hand on pretty boy’s face…Posted May 27, 2013 4:44 pm
How many years does it take of seeing Mayweather vrs top rank fighters never take place to make one realize they never will? Unless PAC splits with top rank a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight will never happen. The Alvarez fight most likely happen but I don’t see it happening in 2013.Posted May 27, 2013 4:37 pm
Pac is the wild card in the Mayweather sweepstakes. If he beats Rios, he will have a compelling case to fight Mayweather. And Money would be a fool to not fight him because after Rios softens him up and maybe even damages him, he will be ripe for the taking.Posted May 27, 2013 4:27 pm
@ Rem- floyd offer pac 40 mil for a fight. Pac said no. All you have to do is youtube pac’s interview w stephne a smith on 1st take. It was pac who said no. He felt he deserved more money and maybe so. But floyd isnt scared of pac and vice versa. But unless either floyd or pac become more flexible w the financial term ther will be no fight. Damn shame!Posted May 27, 2013 3:55 pm
Welterweight is for little boys…Mayweather is boring.Posted May 27, 2013 3:34 pm
This fight will happen.Posted May 27, 2013 3:27 pm
No way Canelo beats Floyd at the right catch weight. No way. But this fight won’t happen for a long time. Canelo has other greart money options.Posted May 27, 2013 2:39 pm
Happyboy this top rank golden boy nonsense was another ploy by Floyd to avoid Pac. Oscar fought Pac himself so when did the rift begin when the public wanted Floyd to fight Pac. Pac v Marquez 1& 2 were also G.B v T.R they did fights up until that yellow shiver ran up Floyds spine.Posted May 27, 2013 2:36 pm
With potential pay-per-view sales being a major factor, my thinking is that Money’s opponents will be sequentially more risky (with the most dangerous last) thus ostensibly preserving the sanctity of the agreement and the likelihood of Floyd reaching 49-0. And if he does reach 49, watch for an attempt at 50-0 in a mega fight that will produce more money than there is money—no pun intended.Posted May 27, 2013 2:26 pm
This a bait and hook title. Author is looking for a high post count. Bogus.Posted May 27, 2013 2:24 pm
KO – please name one artist from the division, smart ass.Posted May 27, 2013 2:10 pm
The author should have titled this “I think Mayweather WILL fight Canelo…..”…. because this article was just opinionated propoganda…smhPosted May 27, 2013 2:00 pm
Yea sure he will continue with his demand of 147 and Canelo will keep his stand at 154 so this is all bull shytPosted May 27, 2013 1:52 pm
b.sPosted May 27, 2013 1:48 pm
the ghost in the hallway
I thought Castillo beat him too, who was a pretty good fighter in his day but not one a great fighter should be having major difficulties with or losing to. I don’t buy the injury excuses either.
If Mayweather had at least had the guts to fight a prime Pacquiao, regardless if he’d lost, which I’m almost positive he would of, and by KO too, then I would respect him a he’ll of a lot more. Running away from that fight and the fact that he’s never even fought a great fighter whilst they were in their prime let alone beaten one really hurts his legacy IMO.Posted May 27, 2013 1:22 pm
the ghost in the hallway
I used to be a huge Mayweather fan back in the day, but eventually I got sick of all of his lies (some of his behaviour outside or the ring has been totally indefensible to) and his reluctance to take on the best. It’s a shame because he is very talented if somewhat overrated by his diehard fans and I genuinelybelieve he could’ve beaten some of the fighters he went to such extremes to avoid fightig. Not Pacquiao mind, he’s totally wrong for him, which for all too obvious reasons is why he’s never wanted any part of him.Posted May 27, 2013 1:11 pm
personnally i Will Never consider mayweather as great – great talent without any Doubt but great fighter no Because he lacks heart and he is not entertaining – talentwise i Would compare him to sugar Ray Léonard (which shows that i do acknowledge mayweather great talent) – but There are quite some différences which in my view make Léonard great and not mayweather.
Who cares ?! It’s not even HW.Posted May 27, 2013 12:25 pm
Floyd won’t fight Canelo he hurt his hand more than he hurt Guerreros face, Cotto bust his nose with a jab and Mosley almost got rid of him with a shot that everyone else walked through with ease. Floyds not strong or durable enough to deal with Canelo he’ll use the possibility of the fight happening to sell other fights like he used Pac. Imo he needs to fight Pac the best ww and give me Mattysse the best jww those r the best fighters at a fair weight for Floyd. The writers dead on Floyd has to many critics and their criticism is justified his legacy will suffer unless he fights the true elite at his weight.Posted May 27, 2013 12:24 pm
Canelo vs Mayweather would be the most boring fight in history. Mayweather will do his same hit, hold and run as he always does. Canelo is very young in age and experience. The ring would have to be 10×10 feet just to make Mayweather fight. The cat and mouse style of fighting is boring, and fans are tired of it. Stand there and fight once in 10 years, but we know that won’t happen. Canelo still has a long way to go, but he has some great fights in his future, and those will be real entertaining fights. Quillin, Glovokin, Chavez Jr. If Mayweather dare fight the great legen that is Manny Pacquiao, he’s in trouble because Manny can better him with speed, power and style. Manny stops him before 10 rounds, and that a guarantee. Too bad Mayweather ducked them all.Posted May 27, 2013 12:15 pm
Canelo will be easy days work for Money, this bout is gonna happen and you chumps are gonna be back wanting Floyd to fight Ward, GGG, Martinez, Chavez, Froch too. Bozos, the guy is a Jnr LW who climbed up 4 divisions to WW and has faught twice at JMW weighing 151lbs max. Once again in over 16yrs Floyd is gonna make you eat your words and ya’all gonna cum up wit more bs excuses after he schools Cinnamon.Posted May 27, 2013 12:09 pm
i dont aggree with the statement he has no fans … he has lots here in the UK, like or not, he is the man in boxing at the moment.. personally i cant stand the twat, because since he has made it to the top, he has effectively gone missing when a real live opponent has come on the scene…. I think maybe ortiz was the last guy you can say was in his prime and not disadvantaged too much by coming up too many divisions or just simpy not good enough, and he was a hardly a great champion, not even close… all the other fights have been carefully calculated as least risk, and still sellable …im sure people will throw all sorts of stats saying they were champions and blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is, anyone who knows boxing, knows that he timed these opponents when they were on the slide and their reactions were not what they were…. hes a showman more than a warrior and will never ever be at the top table, with the sugars and the like… iMO of coursePosted May 27, 2013 12:03 pm
CANELO IS NOT READY YET.NEEDS TO FIGHT MORE BOXERS NOT FIGHTERS.Posted May 27, 2013 11:23 am
Canelo Overratez will get pot shotted into a frustrated UD mess. His inexperience will show. He’s slow and gets tired way too easily. He’s beaten crap aside from Trout, the only reason why he’s so hyped is because there’s too many Mexicans.Posted May 27, 2013 11:16 am
Wow, what a bunch of crap. No wonder the writer won’t put his name over the article. Would never be taken serious again.Posted May 27, 2013 11:11 am
This article (and I use the term article very loosely) is pathetic.
Using a title that makes me think the fight has actually been signed.
In reality you and I both know that its not been agreed, and even though it may be in the near future, it certainly hasn’t been yet.
Try harder….. Much harder.
DPosted May 27, 2013 10:37 am
Todd u on crack….when’s the last time Mayweather dropped someone besides Ortiz.Posted May 27, 2013 9:57 am
tHIS A POST OR AN ARTICLE?Posted May 27, 2013 9:54 am
I hate Floyd but I’m a 25 year boxing observer and he is to fast and experienced for Cinnamon. I would even go as far as saying Floyd will drop him at least once.Posted May 27, 2013 9:47 am
I don’t think it’ll be Canelo, though it’s the biggest fight for Floyd at this time…apart from Pacquiao. However, if the fight does take place I’m sure it has a lot to do with Canelos less than impressive fight against Trout. I can see Floyd out-boxing Canelo all night long.
If Pac does beat Rios, then I see Floyd-Pac next year, which would be another big payday for Floyd. I know many boxing fans believe that Pac is shot after too consecutive loses. Especially after being KO in his last fight, but he did well against Bradley and was doing exceptionally well against Marquez before being KO. I expect him to do well against Rios and may ask Floyd to get it on.Posted May 27, 2013 9:07 am
Mayweather/Pacquiao is this era’s bowe/Lewis
Bowe is STILL talking trash about Lewis. Saying he wasn’t scared and woulda whipped him…
A shame no one can force mayweather to either fight pacquiao, or throw his belt in the trash and run…Posted May 27, 2013 8:37 am
Jonn E. JaGozza
If this fight comes off it will be the best test for The Money Man
This writers claims are ridiculous “Floyd had more detractors
Golden Boy and Top Rank are NEVER working together it has not happened in YEARS I seriously doubt we see Floyd and Pacquaio EVER… Schaefer just said that he is no longer even toying with dealing with Bob Arum… Move on the Canelo fight is far more likely at an agreed upon weight…Posted May 27, 2013 7:57 am
good luck to him because I reckon he’l end up in the gutter by the time he’s in his 50′s and broke lol.Posted May 27, 2013 4:53 am
and even although a miss match the pac fight would make lots of cash just none of mine.Posted May 27, 2013 4:52 am
He better fight someone who brings the ppv money in, Showtime will end up losing money on him unless he pulls in the pppv money,I think Khan will get a shot the ppv figures in Britain alone would be sky high.Posted May 27, 2013 4:51 am
by the way I think Manny is a great exiting fighter but his style aint the one to beat Money’s, god knows who’s is, Sugar Ray of old stood the best chance, He’s been kinda lucky he’s had no other greats of his skill to compete with.Posted May 27, 2013 4:48 am
I wont be buying a Money vs Pac mismatch, look what he did to Marquez who’s Mannys equal, Pac has no chance I believe,not even a punchers.Posted May 27, 2013 4:44 am
sorry FA I don’t think he fights him September either, but Its too much money for the greedy baS8tard to ignore and his last fight would be the ideal time to cash his chips as they do in Vegas.Posted May 27, 2013 4:42 am
according to common sense.Posted May 27, 2013 4:40 am
“Mayweather WILL fight Canelo on September 14th!” – According to who? The author? Not an authority to state that. An opinion does not equal fact.Posted May 27, 2013 4:37 am
Floyd I believe WILL fight Canelo for his last fight, so if he loses then who cares he’s banked a shed load of cash and bugs out.Posted May 27, 2013 4:34 am
Floyd will be facing Pacquiao after he takes on Rios. Arum just wants to milk Manny a little more outside the US before feeding him to Floyd. Alexander will be next I’m guessing for September. Then Cinco will see him fight Manny. This gives Alvarez a bit if time to beat a few guys to build the hype a bit more.Posted May 27, 2013 4:33 am
lol who’s watson and why you no like sir? I guess a hanger-onerPosted May 27, 2013 4:32 am
floyd’s strategy is so clunky. tweeting that alexander’s the frontrunner for the last fight. look he’s an attraction but that doesn’t mean he’s a genius.Posted May 27, 2013 3:00 am
Dan the Man !
Duckweather !Posted May 27, 2013 2:55 am
This fight will happen. Money is funny.Posted May 27, 2013 2:35 am
Floyd runs to a SD in another zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz festPosted May 27, 2013 2:11 am
Martin “EL BRUCHADOR” Honorio
Is it true? Or just wishful thinking of the writer?Posted May 27, 2013 2:08 am
Floyd by Pot shotting CLINIC!!!!Posted May 27, 2013 1:52 am