Can someone please tell the Reni Valenzuela that he still has some of Pacquiao’s babies running off his lips? If a loss isn’t a loss (writer’s opinion of Pac vs Bradley) then we can definitely argue the same for Marquez who was robbed in his previous fights against Manny.Posted July 24, 2013 10:37 am
I think the most devastating KO that pacman had felt is against our very own filipino boxer rustico torrecampo, back in 1996.Watch it on youtube..It was a super KO who hit in the chin…But what happen manny bounce back after that lose and he keep on winning. Manny can overcome all the challenges in his life.Posted July 24, 2013 2:50 am
You know I really don’t know what it takes for Little Floyd’s fans. Fifty Cent, Floyds best friend said on national TV in no uncertain terms that Floyd is AFRAID of Pacquiao, and that’s why he will not fight him.Posted July 23, 2013 1:21 pm
Floyd did not make weight for JMM fight.
Good point Junio on the issue of character. With these things it should NEVER be personal. 100% in agreement there. I wonder if Broner fights at that pace or if it is just a watered down.version of his idol that he strains to imitate. Still from observing him he has very poor foot placement and a ebery leaky defense. Hr needs to STAY in the gym and learn his craft. Matthyse needs to sharpen his defense as well. I appreciate his effective aggression but a well schooled boxer with a cool head could very well make him pay for his sometimes reckless aggression. Lucas would do well to look at and study tapes of vintage Roberto Duran. Duran was a cutie according to Amgelo Dundee and that was due to Ray Arcel teaching the ultra aggressive Duran the art of defense blended with some very lethal infighting. Duran had become under Arcel the complete boxer puncher. Results? I go with Lucas by stoppage,perhaps mid rounds.Posted July 22, 2013 2:54 pm
I still think Pac should have taken the test on his own. He didn’t need Floyd to do it. I wanted that because I like Floyd but I don’t like him that much to think I’m on his “TMT”
I wanted Pac to show-up Floyd. Going through with the test, with or without Floyd would have been the start. It is one thing to say you will and another to actually do it. And because Pac didn’t, Floyd was allowed to keep talking. And Floyd can be very annoying when he talks. He reminds me of that one Gremlin who is singing that Christmas carol in the movie. Just annoying like you want to punch him.
I’m not a fan of Broner’s “character.” So I’ll get that out there first. But I can separate that from what a fighter does inside the ring. But it doesn’t mean I will root for him either. I just can appreciate the skillset.
Broner’s skills are good. Especially when he bothers to use them. He has shown very good offensive skills but lacks the punch-out-put to dominate fighters like he thinks he is doing in his own mind by just blocking shots like it is a sparring session.
Matthyse. I like him. A little raw in the boxing skills which could be troubling against a very good boxer that haults his power. I like his grit. And unlike Broner, Lucas will go out and win from the first bell on.
Lucas has a shot of not only out-working Broner to a decision win but also catching Broner flush and hurting him. Even knocking him down and out.
The problem area for Lucas is that I still think his defense is iffy. And with Broner’s skills, he may be able to capitalize on it “IF” he actually improves on his own tactics and ups the pace like I said he should or he will risk not doing enough to not only hault Lucas’s advances, but will lose a decision.
I think Broner needs another trainer. Somebody to get on his ass and utilize his skills more.
Other than that, I’ll be rooting for Lucas.Posted July 22, 2013 1:00 pm
Junio,good morning champ. Valid point on your part in regards to the bloodtesting and only the tesyers knew. However I must say once Pacquiao agreed to everything,including testing up to tje day of the figjt then the onus is on Floyd. However my friend, this record is past its time. The bout will never happen and it’s unfortunate. I have one for you, Broner vs Matthyse. Your take. Btw,liked your use of the star symbols on a**. Lol.Posted July 22, 2013 12:03 pm
The problem I have with Floyd is that he acts like a Brat sometimes. That’s why you call him out on it.
You want testing, OK, I’ll take the test on one condition: we actually do the best testing available which is Year Round and Random. Let’s start.
And for Money, it’s simple: let’s open the books and see what’s what.
I think for the first fight it should have been this simple.
And remember, if Pac beats Floyd, the key is in his hand the second time around. Just like Floyd said when he beat Oscar that those numbers are now his.Posted July 22, 2013 11:38 am
Listen again: Ariza basically said it is the ignorance of the people that don’t know Science that will accuse people like Pac and JMM of using PEDs.
Ariza is an acquaintance of Heredia and doesn’t feel Heredia did anything illegal. And that it was all down to modern Legal Science. Just like he did with Pac when people accused him of juicing Pac up to get “bigger, stronger, faster” as he moved up in weight.
People accused Pac as well yet you don’t think he was on anything and JMM was? That’s being a hypocrite. Especially since JMM passed the test that Pac said was good enough for him.
Are you saying there should have been additional testing?
Are you saying that Floyd is right that some fighters may be using PEDs?
Are you accusing JMM like the Mayweather’s accused Pac?Posted July 22, 2013 11:23 am
Pac sold more PPVs PER FIGHT than Floyd?
That’s not the break-down I saw. You don’t total up all your fights that you have had on PPV; you go by how much you can sell PER FIGHT. I don’t remember Pac having greater numbers Per Fight than Floyd. But I’m open to see the breakdown again.
Richard seemed very confident Floyd would have the greater numbers per fight which is why he offered Arum to open the books if he would.
Pac’s numbers are cloudy because of Bob Arum.
You need to check out how much Floyd generates per fight. Like I said before, he makes all of the revenue and not just the Fighter’s cut. That’s how he was making Forbes list as the Top Athlete Paid and he doesn’t have endorsements like the others do.
The writer from Forbes magazine talked about how Floyd is able to make such an obscene amount on “Morning Joe” show.
And Floyd is able to do that fighting how many times a year?
The problem I have with it as a fan is that Floyd had lots of room to fight and negotiate with whoever he wanted to instead of being demanded to fight a certain opponent because the big fights usually brings in the most money.
However, now, with the Showtime contract, it does seem Showtime will apply pressure on Floyd to earn his money. At least that’s what it seems like with his choice to fight Canelo after the R.G. fight PPV.Posted July 22, 2013 11:18 am
g———-d morning ,,,,,, punk—-weather FANS. Its funny for you terds to hang your hat on marquez’s work, but no PUNKWEATHER, WAS A NO SHOW, marquez had to do it for him. However you slice it, your bouy ran ran ran ran and ran fast.Posted July 22, 2013 11:07 am
if the punch that DEMOLISHED Pacquiao* was “lucky”, what was the punch that previously decked Pacquiao* in the third round? or the right that stunned Pacquiao* to end the 4th? conversely, the replays show how Pacquiao* stepped on Marquez’s foot to score his own KD in the 5th and he was just plain reckless and wild in the 6th, which is what Marquez expected and prepared for: a reckless and overconfident Pacquiao* darting his swollen head in and out of Marquez’s crosshairs while Marquez unloaded powerpunch after powerpunch confident that he would be able to regularly catch Pacquiao* rushing in, which is what happened and what decided the bout. Marquez’s mental and physical preparation v. Pacquiao’s* reckless overconfidence v. a 39-year-old Marquez that Team Pacquiao* was convinced would finally not be able to keep up with the younger and still-prime Manny*. they were Wrong.Posted July 22, 2013 10:23 am
“Made me actually remember the days when we fellas could tslk boxing and ENJOY the differences of opinions without the vitriolic words and mean spirited vulgarity.”
I’ve been debating boxing since I was 11 or 12 in the school yard, with all my eager firends asking me my opinions on up-coming fights and on which boxer was better than the other. Yes, there were several disagreements, but all respectful and never nasty.
I reckon things took a change around 2006/7 with people feeling they could slate and denegrate each other behind the anonymity of the internet….
Yes, it’s good that we don’t have the same opinions or favourite fighters, but let’s remember we’re not on heree to pick fights, JUST to exchange views!Posted July 22, 2013 7:28 am
He was beaten by a lucky shot….LOL LOL LOL
Juan should not even think about ever giving another fight…you are not gonna be lucky and get that fight!Posted July 22, 2013 4:26 am
KFC – U mean the same bull who was to taken to slaughter by JMM who was previously toyed by Money May??Posted July 22, 2013 2:58 am
no chickening for mayweather, fight the bull manny if you want to be great but bring gravy..lolPosted July 22, 2013 2:55 am
Peej”Pac fans have more excuses than anything. All he had to do was take the test and the fight was made. No matter what y’all say the facts are facts. All Pac had to do was call Floyd’s bluff if he was scared and say he would take the test. But he didn’t and made excuses. That’s all on him. So too bad your hero ran from a simple drug test”
Lol …to bad your hero mayweather had to demand testing and not take the fight in the first place …why not fight PAC if he you claim floyed would beat PAC easy and then demand testing because like floyed sr said he is” to strong” for his weight why not fight him then?!
Oh and I’m aware of Arizas comments but just because he’s from Pacs camp im not gonna suspend my own common sense because he said it just like i didn’t agree when the scared of needles comment was made or when Arum said Pacs cut wouldn’t have been healed for the May 5 day that Floyd set without negotiating. If modern science has advanced like Ariza said they’d be extremely rich do to their discoveries and all fighters would do that training for that 1 punch k.o power. No they have not discovered how to dramatically increase punching power. Ariza doesn’t get along with Roach and it make no sense for him to undermine his own team he odviously has his own agenda.Posted July 21, 2013 10:46 pm
Junio your right the financial dynamics did change at that time Pac surpassed Floyd in ppv revenue. Your making the financial argument from Floyds perspective and not a neutral one. From a business perspective how could Pac accept anything less than a even split when record #s couldn’t be done without him. Pac makes over 30 mil. a fight 25 guaranteed plus a portion of the ppv so Floyd figures he can offer him just a little more and say thats more than he ever made ha. Pacs about to do more than 40 mil. with Bum Bum Rios how good does that offer look now. Again all a ploy to avoid the fight but save face sad how it works with his fanbase smh.Posted July 21, 2013 10:08 pm
Natan, sorry but if telling the truth is being a thug, Im a thugPosted July 21, 2013 9:26 pm
Pac should have taken extra testing on his own but he didn’t. And he shouldn’t have tried to negotiate what the testers could do since he is the athlete.
If something is on the table today and there is a clock for when it will be taken off, you can’t come back later and expect it to still be there if time has run out.
Money: it goes by the numbers you are doing today and not always what you did in the recent past.
And that’s why I said the best way to settle this if they were going to do testing and reach a financial agreement would one up FLoyd by demanding year round and random testing which is the highest requirement for testing. And financially, what Richard offered to Bob which was to open the books/numbers to an independent arbitrator and let that person decide (based on the numbers) who deserves what.
Pac could have agreed to all that and if FLoyd still said no, it would be solely on him.
Pac could have also agreed on his own to extra testing and shoved it in Floyd’s face.
They are both at fault.Posted July 21, 2013 9:06 pm
Getto Thug by name and thug by nature…….Posted July 21, 2013 9:05 pm
The fact that Pacfan’s are saying Marquez was on PEDs is poetic justice at its best. The Pacfan’s were always the ones that never felt PEDs were a problem in boxing. They sided with Ariza when he said random testing should never be a part of boxing and the then current testing was good enough, cause some idiots were getting caught. Now look at the Pacfan’s squirm like worms and accuse Marquez of PED use… It really doesn’t get much better than this, it’s hilarious… LMAO!!!!Posted July 21, 2013 9:02 pm
Ariza felt his advantage was knowing Science while others in boxing didn’t. Others in other sports did but in boxing there was a lack of it.
Has anyone knocked out JMM?
He was almost taken out by Pac in the first fight but it is his durability that enabled him to get through the early onslaught. That ability to recover and adapt is rare. JMM has it. And we’ve seen this in other fights with him.
JMM has knockout power. And the ability to KO someone increases when someone doesn’t see it coming and or goes into the punch.Posted July 21, 2013 8:58 pm
Spatucus thanks man i may have hard feelings towards Marquez but im sure glad we see eye to eye on the issue with Floyd.Posted July 21, 2013 8:58 pm
You are now just as bad as the Mayweather’s and all those that accuse Pac of using PEDs.
Alex Ariza already went through this and said JMM he felt was clean and it was down to modern science of nutrition and training. The same thing he did for Pac was what JMM had help with from Heredia.
Ariza says you are wrong unless you want to say Ariza is wrong and if he is wrong, what does that say about Pac’s ability to perform as he moved up in weight which is not common?
Pac’s kept rising in weight. Even after he was peaked physically. And he was able to stay incredible lean while putting on muscle weight and maintaining that devastating speed and power which took out bigger foes. That’s what he gest credit for, right?
So you see why Ariza would say that it is unfair to accuse JMM the same way others were accusing Pac.
Ariza felt it was the lack of understanding of Modern Science that many weren’t aware of what is possible.Posted July 21, 2013 8:53 pm
Publicly accussed Pac’Posted July 21, 2013 8:49 pm
Floyd’s biggest gains finically are also tied into owning the rights to everything from promotion, to gate receipts, to PPV, to outside marketing and products. Basically, everything the Promoter gets his hands on and a lot of times doesn’t cut the fighter in on, Floyd made sure he was getting it. And that was the reason why he was making huge amounts of money while fighters like Pac weren’t. He controlled it all.
Oscar figured that out a long time ago: Be your own Man. Be the one that signs the checks and not the one that is receiving them from the signer.
Arum wanted his big chunk. The business side to it all is more than just the cut you see the fighter’s get. It’s everything.
Floyd will get a cut of the overpriced hot-dogs and beer at the ballpark basically when he wouldn’t have before.
Floyd wanted the full event testing. Pac wanted a cut-off. Floyd finally gave in a bit on the cut-off which he should not have been allowed to do even though it isn’t mandatory by the commission…and Pac still held strong to his date and not Floyd’s budge. Floyd gave him a cut-off time to make up his mind to come towards him and sign his cut-off date or it would be taken off the table.
It was later that Pac agreed but the deal was already off. Pac tried to put it back on the table later but it was off the table. by that time, numbers in fights had changed as well. Again, what you are worth today is not necessarily what you are worth tomorrow.
Floyd is a businessman first. And Pac ended up being similar with holding strong to what he thought he should get.
Floyd used the 40 million for one fight that Manny never got in his career against him.
Alex Ariza pointed the finger at Bob Arum. He also didn’t understand why Pac didn’t take the financial terms from Floyd.Posted July 21, 2013 8:46 pm
Junio your post would be sensible if Floyd was willing to fight Pac but he wasn’t. Really why worry about Arum making money off the fight when at a 50/50 split both sides were projected to make a 100 mil when all was tallied up. Let T.R split up their profits and Floyd would’ve pretty much enjoyed his purse by himself. Its just not feasible that Floyd would deny himself that payday just to keepArum from getting his cut over on the other side talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. The testing Pac was always willing to negotiate with the testing he compromised constantly first Floyd was open to a cutoff date he changed his demands multiple times on cutoff dates until Pac finally agreed to no cutoff date then the money split became an issue. Its just odvious that Floyd never intended to fight Pac.Posted July 21, 2013 8:05 pm
It is without doubt the KO shot that Marquez landed was luck. He was not aware what his blow had done, and was in complete shock. He had no idea how it even got through to connect. That takes nothing away from his win or his skill as an overall fighter, it was just LUCKY that he connected at that right time. He was not looking and going merely on luck to see if he could strike whilst getting pummeled. Marquez won, and that cannot be disputed at the end of the day.Posted July 21, 2013 7:06 pm
Spartacus 65 my friend, hope all is well. I like your last post. A lot of truth to it. Manny Pacquiao sure has take an avalanche of abuse after his loss. This is a good man that deserves better. I’m looking forward to seeing him against Rios, which should be a tough fight, but at least Manny never ducks anyone.Posted July 21, 2013 6:51 pm
Cont. In defeat. Many,months he stayed silent while im sure he has heard ad read at least some of the avalanche of badmouthing,vulgar,ruthless and just simply hateful comments some very brave keyboard warriors spew about him on these sites. He has finally spoken up,though it is pride speaking here. Eben Marquez with this win, is STILL whining incessantly abour the previous fights. Pacquiao seems to incite through no fault of his own,the baser and worst instincts out if some people.Posted July 21, 2013 6:08 pm
Rem, appreciate very much your comments basedin facts. However you are fighting a. Uphill battle against individuals on this forum who believe what they WANT to believe. They are seeking false comfort in the tired argument that Pacquiao initially refused blood testing over 31/2 years ago. Very shortly thereafter Pacquiao came to his senses and agreed. The issue was long resolved as far as Pacquiao was concerned. Period. Amnesia is a very convenient thing to habe when biased viewpoints rule the day. Objectivity is rare on these sites nowadays. No need to get scientific about the damn thing in regards to what took.ave. The blame lies squarely at Mayweathers feet. Not arum,who I don’t particularly care for,not Pacquiao,though his initial refusal did not look good. He came to his senses and took the challenge. The bluff WAS valled. Then the i ane other wiggle room excuses from Mayweather just became insulting to EVERYONE. Now as for today. Im a fan of Pacquiao but he is WRONG. Marquez is a damn good fighter worthy of respect. The pu.ch was NOT lucky. The punch in question was landed several timea in previous fights and tne ko fight as well. That punch was practiced in the gym adnauseum by Marquez. The difference this time bei.f adrenaline,desperation for fear of being kayoed himself,pinpount timung and Pacquiao with his face first aggression gave Marquez the biggest win of his outstanding career. Manny has been quiet and gracious i.Posted July 21, 2013 6:02 pm
Pacman needs to let that one go, he’s never dominated JMM and never will. You got timed coming in and were KOed by a great fighter. No shame in that, now you’re trying to cash in on an expired check. The Mayweather fight is gone and with that millions you past up cause you didn’t want to give up some blood. Why not? What are you hiding? Focus on Rios cause he’s coming to fight not play chess like JMM. I liked Pacman so much more when he didn’t speak english and was humble.Posted July 21, 2013 5:50 pm
they are both Great fighters but they are not perfect. They are flawed in and outside of the ring just like the rest.
This fight didn’t happen because both have Big Egos and want their version of a fair shake.
At least from an outside stand-point, I think Pac is easier to like however.Posted July 21, 2013 5:35 pm
The problem with “Accusing” JMM of using…..Posted July 21, 2013 5:30 pm
The problem with accursing JMM of using “something” additional to gain power is just as wrong as the Mayweather’s accusing Pac of doing the same. This was brought up by Alex Ariza.
JMM passed all the tests. By those tests, the ones that Pac has also said was all that was needed, JMM is clean.
Alex Ariza is acquaintances with Heredia and said he does not think JMM was on anything.
Cotto left Arum and signed on to fight Floyd with event testing. And Cotto was given his highest payday to date.Posted July 21, 2013 5:24 pm
If Pac had agreed to the test, if he was serious about the test, proving Floyd wrong, he could have gone through with it with or without Floyd. Others have. Pac has yet to do it.
A contract is for the Venue, Money, and additions.
They were even having trouble with the Venue because Bob Arum wanted to have it in Dallas then in a stadium he wanted built and so on.
With the Money, again, because of the bad relationship of Bob and Floyd, the best offer was from Richard who said let’s set up a meeting with an independent arbitrator to open the books from both sides and see what’s what. And then the arbitrator would give the percentage.
What you negotiate at one point isn’t always going to stick later on because your numbers may go up or they may go down. So lets say at one time you can demand 50/50, and negotiations fall through for other things, like agreeing on the venue or drug testing…and then you wait it out after a fight or two and your numbers are no longer quite the same and your opponents is…your demand is going to be negotiated again. That’s business.
Floyd even has to make up for loss of PPV buys from his last fight by having to fight Canelo. Showtime wasn’t going to put up with what HBO had put up with some of their fighters. They pay you, you better come through.
Oscar and Richard have a problem with Bob as well. It’s not just Floyd. The thing with Floyd that makes it greater is that he is still fighting and has to fight for that money. It’s just him he is making money off of while Richard and Oscar have a stable of fighters.
Floyd doesn’t want Bobby reaching into his pockets. He doesn’t need him. Floyd became bigger after he left Bobby both in popularity and in his pockets.Posted July 21, 2013 5:20 pm
The writer is being disrespectful of a boxing great. Mr Valenzuela this lucky punch is PRACTICED endlessly in the gym….Pads; Double end bag; Sparring. The only luck here is that Pac did not get caught earlier.Posted July 21, 2013 4:48 pm
Forreal- you are for real win it comes to whiney boy. Listen bro stop all the pacman BS. Mayweather ran from him, man up, move on. We dont have to talk about all his cherry picking either. Lets concentrate on Canelo.Posted July 21, 2013 4:44 pm
LOOK man,if any man in boxing would raise suspiscionns of doping MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE is PEDman,specially after his pathetic refusals from blood testing,denials,lawsuits…you name it!! Yeah,you can rightfully say that PEDman is the Lance Armstrong of boxing!!Posted July 21, 2013 4:30 pm
I can just post quotes that refute all the nonsense coming from the Pac haters ha ha.Posted July 21, 2013 4:27 pm
I like how everyone talks about the perfect punch ignoring the Barry Bonds blast or should i say Barry Baclo blast in the 3rd round. Marquez has truly done what was thought impossible defy modern knowledge of human capability and dramatically increase punching power.
THis fight (if it happens) is like using a punctured condom…POINTLESS!!Posted July 21, 2013 4:12 pm
“Pacquiao your next.”
stop pacman with the excuses it is over for pacman every sense the juice comment came up he has lost every fight be a man about it you got knock the f@#k out zzzzz lolPosted July 21, 2013 4:03 pm
HA HA HA!!,the deniers are at it again;if any man on this planet knew PEDman BETTER THAN ANYBODY else is JMM.That punch was PERFECTLY timed by man who fought this cretin 4 times and during that time JMM ADAPTED and made the adjustments needed to finally send PEDman to dreamland where he belongs.Noticed that IT WAS JMM who IMPROVED with every fight with PEDman,whereas PEDman himself NEVER showed any type of changes from his predictable “punches ‘n bunches” style of fighting. JMM and his team knew all too well that PEDman’s Aquiles heel was the STRAIGHT RIGTH HAND,it was just a matter of PERFECT TIMMING,in fact this is the key to beat PEDMAN and JMM knows this ALL TOO WELL!!Posted July 21, 2013 4:00 pm
The punch wasn’t lucky Pac knows Marquez power better than anyone and knows Marquez doesn’t have that kind of power problem is that wasn’t Marquez that punch came from J.M Balco.Posted July 21, 2013 3:42 pm
Pacquiao fighting a tune up after losing 3 fights in a row and being brutally smashed by a man toyed by Money May who is taking a HUGE risk in a fight which haters said he would NEVER take, I think this proves who the real true champion is.Posted July 21, 2013 3:41 pm
Junio good post but im not the type of fan that blindly supports a fighter i side with Pac because Floyd clearly was the one who avoided the fight. Cant compare a couple of statements ( scared of needles, cut won’t be healed etc.) to changed demands like a 50/50 split becoming a 40 mil flat fee because coochie boy Floyd could no longer blame the fight not happening on testing. Lets look back down the timeline did G.B and T.R have problems making fights before Pac first entered Floyds nightmares no Pac fought Oscar himself and fought Marquez when he was a G.B fighter in fights 1 & 2. The only problem between the promotional companies is Floyd.Posted July 21, 2013 3:30 pm
Im ahhhh got put to sleep ahhhh by a lucky punch ahhhh so Mayweather ahhhhh is afraid of mePosted July 21, 2013 3:29 pm
Pac fans have more excuses than anything. All he had to do was take the test and the fight was made. No matter what y’all say the facts are facts. All Pac had to do was call Floyd’s bluff if he was scared and say he would take the test. But he didn’t and made excuses. That’s all on him. So too bad your hero ran from a simple drug testPosted July 21, 2013 2:44 pm
He just saying that. The fight has less of a chance now to be made than it did when Pac was winning fights. So him saying that means nothing. Pac is gonna be KOd against Rios anyways. Pac is gonna retire after the Rios fightPosted July 21, 2013 2:41 pm
I’ve seen knock out punches that looked lucky, but the one that dropped Manny like a sack of potatoes wasn’t one them. That was a perfect punch, not a lucky punch.Posted July 21, 2013 2:09 pm
MAYWEATHER FANS, you nuts have more excuses than Bush. You bone heads do need an excuse for punkweather, not just for manny but for every powder puff fight the punk cherry picked. Hopefully young Canelo can rid boxing of the running man.Posted July 21, 2013 2:05 pm
Yeah,sure PEDman:aftrer YEARS of dodging ANY kind of blood testing for a fight that should had happened YEARS ago,now you’re making all kind of noises after the DETOX process is completed,RIGHT?…well,FORGET IT ABOUT IT!!!,the train already left the station and a fight between you and Floyd has NO appeal whatsoever…NONE!!Posted July 21, 2013 1:43 pm
Manny looked really bad in his last fights not fight fights lolPosted July 21, 2013 1:22 pm
Manny is on drugs or punched drunk, that was not lucky, wait did he even see the punch coming lol lmaoPosted July 21, 2013 1:21 pm
If you refer to that as a lucky punch,you would have to consider all his other punches were unlucky….No I agree Marq looked amazed but he also looked relieved,but that was a peach of a punch and should not be demeaned ……Posted July 21, 2013 12:29 pm
So basically, what I’m trying to say is, I wish a Prime Tommy Hearns was around at 147 so he could knock them both out cold but we know that’s not possible because both Floyd and Pac would have never fought him.Posted July 21, 2013 12:27 pm
And I do think Pac’s unconventional style would have been troubling to Floyd and he knew it. Speed, Power, overall quickness from head to toe, despite his flaws defensively, Pac still is dangerous. I would still favor Floyd however because of his adaption to fighter’s styles, his counter-ability, reach advantage, etc.
Chael Sonnen :
The same was said about Pac. Something Alex Ariza brought up. So be careful where you are pointing fingers.Posted July 21, 2013 11:19 am
You know its certainly understandable for Floyd to not want any part of Pac its painfully odvious that Pac is by far the best and most dangerous fighter Floyd could ever face. Pac could easily shatter the image that Floyd has worked to build his whole career not only in the eyes of fans but in Floyds own fragile mind also. Floyd knows that yes he’s an extremely gifted athlete but doesn’t have the heart, punch or chin of a great fighter. So with Pac being able to match Floyds athleticism but bringing other tools Floyd can’t match again its reasonable for Floyd to avoid him at all cost in order to save face and his career in turn. What turns my stomach is fans who have helped Floyd easily navigate around fighting Pac as if they benefit from this in any way whatsoever. Y’all receive no % of Floyds purse so what’s the logic in depriving yourselves of the fight and please spare me the weak arguments from Floyds side I’ve heard them all and they’re all easily debunked by the facts.Posted July 21, 2013 11:19 am
Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Yeah Juan tried to make us think that Angel Guillermo “Memo” Heredia’s Hulk ticks cream came from drinking pee.Posted July 21, 2013 10:57 am
Um…Barerra was robbed and disrobed by his own promoter when he beat Marquess who was later robbed and disrobed by the same promoter who tried to put him out to the same old pasture against their top franchise–Money May, which sent Juan into a deep darkness so deep that he found comfort Dr. Angel Guillermo “Memo” Heredia.Posted July 21, 2013 10:54 am
Pacquiao got hit by a guy who miraculously went through puberty a second time at 39 years old. He got hit by a guy that showed up with more power at 39 than he had in any of the previous fights. He had a 6 pack that he never had before. There’s two tests that you have, Jim. You’ve got the pee test, but you’ve also got the visual test. When you take your robe off and you get in the ring that’s your first test. And to act as if all of us didn’t go, ‘Something’s going on there.’ No, I haven’t said that (he’s on PEDs), but I sure came close, didn’t I? I know that Freddy Roach did. I know Freddy Roach said, ‘If that body’s clean, I kiss your ass.’ But you gotta understand, all substances aren’t illegal. Did he take something? Sure, he did. Did he take something illegal? Well, according to the test, no.I just know you don’t go through puberty twice and I’ll leave it at that.Posted July 21, 2013 10:43 am
When a loser fights a loser, he’s still a loser. Look at Pac’s picture. His head is bigger than Barry Bonds. Normal human beings heads stop growing after they become adults not barry bonds and PEDcquiao.Posted July 21, 2013 10:28 am
for all you posters who think marquez isn’t a great fighter, there is a reason that morales and barrera ducked him for years.Posted July 21, 2013 10:27 am
Oh Leonard’s daring was light years ahead of PDF’sPosted July 21, 2013 10:25 am
Dang it..I mean Joe Gans. That’s what happens when I try to write while dancing in the darkness of my man cavePosted July 21, 2013 10:22 am
@tark…I gotta agree with your opinion on ray leonard. I’ve always considered him to be one of the great duckers of all time, and his demand for that pathetic catch-weight fight with donny lalonde was pathetic. I don’t consider mayweather to be very different.Posted July 21, 2013 10:21 am
Oops..I meant Jor GansPosted July 21, 2013 10:16 am
Wow! Talk about poetry in motion. This writer could be the Joe Ganns of pugilistic journalism.Posted July 21, 2013 9:58 am
Juan didn’t do that to Manny in their earlier fights how come he was so strong to knock him down him down in round 3 with a single shot he is used to doing? Pacquiao is the same, it’s Marquez who changed as the writer points in magical wayPosted July 21, 2013 9:47 am
Exiled yank – the whole point is that Marquez threw that punch as he always have ,a right counterpunch wich most of the times got paqiao in their 4 fights HOWEVER you can see it in a replay that paqiao sliped with his punch and his body went forward and at the same time Marquez hit him so it was a double whamy ,PAC body inertia and Marquez punch right in a jaw …so those who say Marquez planed it exactly the way it happen is the biggest bs ever he threw that punch as he always have the same way and predictable !Posted July 21, 2013 9:18 am
Luck: When preparation meets opportunity. MP was winning, but JMM’s shot was not lucky. He timed MP lunging in and countered him. If it was luck, then I could have done the same thing… and there is no way in hell I could have. So get off this lucky punch idea. It was no such thing.Posted July 21, 2013 8:59 am
People would still pay 2 watch it, far 2 late 4 me though. Doesn’t have the same appeal after manny having a few loses. 4 now there careers r heading in diff directionsPosted July 21, 2013 8:36 am
Did you watch the interview? Pac didn’t say lucky punch. He said, “lucky pants”. LOL.Posted July 21, 2013 8:09 am
Peej-”Like Floyd said he dared him to fight him all he had to do was take the test that he is so willing to take now. Easy to dare the top of the food chain when you gotta build your way up. Floyd got criticized for fighting Judah after he lost to Balomir. Floyd would be criticized for fighting Pac coming off 2 losses. And beating Rios whole is also coming off a loss would not qualify for Pac to get the lottery ticket against Floyd”
Hahahahahaha….mayweather refuses PAC fight because now he says he wants him in”mayweather promotion ” if he wants to get a fight not be ause off two losses he was saying just until two days ago …a lottery ticked ??? Hahahaha PAC will make money in every fight he is in but he wants to fight mayweather so now you are against pac fight because he didnt take the test years ago ? why dont you like to see the fight happen ?and then you crticize arum that the fight is not happening when mayweather is the one that asking for another demand …if mayweather don’t want to fight PAC that’s fine but don’t blame anyone else when he gets criticized that the fight is not happening ..you can’t have it both ways ,not fighting PAC and accuse him for that because as you said “not taking the test”Posted July 21, 2013 6:19 am
““manny was rushing in not aware” is precisely what Marquez was able to count on. it’s what he prepared for. the wiser and more experienced Marquez easily lured Pacquiao* directly into his right Fist and boxing immortality. after all, Pacquiao* will forever be linked to the #1 KO in Boxing History. the rivalry is OVER. Marquez is Greater. Viva Marquez!”
Lol PAC gave 4 fights to Marquez knowing that he is tough for him style wise and now that Marquez won you don’t want your guy to give even one chance and proudly write -viva Marquez !” Lol Marquez planed that punch then why don’t you want to see them fight again? I mean he can throw that punch again right ? Pffff….Posted July 21, 2013 6:00 am
Te tumbo – after pac’s ko most boxing experts and fans thought rios is a tough task because rios is durable and can punch so it is not safe matchmaking by team PAC don’t try to discredit PAC for everything he does and btw than you admit rios is going to beat PAC because PAC will fight scared …
Some of the worst, most biased pactard nonsense I’ve ever seen. Seriously is this the kind of thing that passes muster as a boxing article these days?
It’s bad enough that so much of this puerile pacman garbage makes it into print on this site but this author is not only a nut hugger but barely literate with a ridiculously overblown grandiose style more sutable for the religious pages of a Filipino magazine.
This place has really gone to the dogs over the last few years.Posted July 21, 2013 5:22 am
I think people are getting confused with what is defined as a lucky punch… The punch was lucky in the sense that it took him out completely in one. .. And it was against the run of play… Like when Lewis got knocked … 90+ % of punches do not knock someone out cold.. And PAC has not got a glass jaw… The effect of the punch was certainly lucky and probably saved Marquez from a 4th defeat ….Posted July 21, 2013 5:18 am
give credit to pacman for giving marquez a chance 4 times..manny is a warrior he duck nobody..now jmm can you give pacman 1 more time???
HECDOG, the WINNERS want nothing to do with Pacquiao* until he stops LOSING. in fact, i favor a bigger and stronger Rios to upset Pacquiao*. they’re not underestimating him and see his glaring defensive flaws. Pacquiao* is nothing if not predictable and will be fighting scared in this fight. if any fighter can reacquaint their opponent with the potential of being KTFO once again it’s “Bam-Bam”. Team Pacquiao* thinks that they are cleverly matchmaking Pacquiao* into serious contention once again but they’re underestimating Rios and once again overestimating Pacquiao*. i only wish that Team Rios would invite Heredia to their camp. the mental anxiety alone would exhaust Pacquiao’s* fanboys (if not Pacquiao*) before the opening bell.Posted July 21, 2013 4:56 am
“manny was rushing in not aware” is precisely what Marquez was able to count on. it’s what he prepared for. the wiser and more experienced Marquez easily lured Pacquiao* directly into his right Fist and boxing immortality. after all, Pacquiao* will forever be linked to the #1 KO in Boxing History. the rivalry is OVER. Marquez is Greater. Viva Marquez!Posted July 21, 2013 4:44 am
its called lucky punch coz manny was rushing in not aware that its just a seconds more left to end the round and JMM perfectly hit the chin…but to be honest if that punch didnt happen maybe 2 more rounds and marquez is done…his face was brutally damage and all you people know that…Posted July 21, 2013 4:40 am
It was no lucky punch, and really there is no such thing, maybe an unexpected punch but how can it be lucky when the aim of boxing is to land a KO punch? However I do find it strange that Floyd himself professes to be all about the fight that will make the most money isn’t now screaming out to fight Manny who would still generate the biggest purse and in his eyes should be an easy victory as he is washed up. I believe there is something in Manny that Floyd is still if not scared of then nervous about.Posted July 21, 2013 4:05 am
How was that a lucky punch by JMM? He landed same punch several times. Heck the only one lucky is Pac. I had JMM winning 3 of their 4 fights. But of course judges are never wrong right Tim Bradley?Posted July 21, 2013 3:14 am
Sugar Ray Leonard certainly ducked a lot of outstanding boxers..
Leonard was only getting his ass kicked by Terry Norris because he was avoiding all the top Middleweight Champions who won the splintered middleweight titles stripped from Leonard… Leonard never once defended the middleweight title he won from Hagler, because the top contenders were so tough.
One of those Middleweight Champions was Julian Jackson, who crushed Terry Norris like a roach … and was the 1st to beat Norris.. The other 2 Middleweight Champions Leonard avoided by fighting Terry Norris??? Mike McCallum and Michael Nunn.Posted July 21, 2013 2:40 am
I bet you he could… He had Pac down twice in 6 rounds… He could find another opening in 12 rounds.Posted July 21, 2013 2:32 am
Junio… Yeah right… I betcha Marquez couldn’t do that again if they paid him more than Floyd and Pacquiao gets, combined.Posted July 21, 2013 2:14 am
Did anyone bother to listen to the fight called by Jim Lampley?
Lampley projected that JMM was luring Pac into a counter right hand.
Start at 7 seconds left in the round from the HBO brodcast. This is before the right-hand was thrown.
There is no luck involved when it comes to JMM with this punch and knowing what Pac continually does.Posted July 21, 2013 1:37 am
@ correctamundo: INCORRECTAMUNDO!! Floyd should have just quit running scared and pretending he thinks Pacquiao is a cheat with all his laundry list of BS unfounded accusations, and his clever conman demands, all designed to distract from the fact he is scared to risk his zero against a legit threat. Now if he doesn’t fight Pacquiao… No matter what happens, there will be an asterisk next to Floyd’s hand-picked overrated ZERO!Posted July 21, 2013 1:34 am
It WAS a lucky last second punch… LITERALLY! When you analyze the judges’ score cards… Other than the lucky knock down this beefed up Marquez landed in the 3rd round, Pacquiao was dominating the fight better than any fight of their other fights beyond the first one. Pacman was clearly winning when he lunged into Marquez’s lucky, perfect shot, with with his eyes shut, with just one second to go in round 6. And when Pacman went down, you can clearly see that Marquez himself was as surprised as anyone else… I mean he just stood over him with his mouth wide open, like he was in a state of shock!… Yeah, I’d say Pacman is 100% right! There is no doubt this KO was a lucky punch… And even after that, Mayweather’s latest BS demand, is just more proof he is STILL scared to point of pissing his Huggies of fighting Pacquiao.Posted July 21, 2013 1:27 am
CORRECTION. ….should have. .Posted July 21, 2013 1:10 am
TOO late Pac. You should gave assured everyone that you weren’t on PED’s and deserved to be the Top P4P Fighter in the World by taking the tests within 14 days of the Fight vs. Floyd. Now all you can throw are empty promises. Plus you already got knocked out by the 2nd BEST Fighter of this Era. Juan Manuel Marquez. …who Floyd DOMINATE. Learn how to dominate Marquez and we might take you seriously. Until then your words are quieter than a MOUSE.Posted July 21, 2013 1:10 am
Pacquiao would be better advised to ignore all comments from that direction. The fight will never happen so focus on real possibilities: Rios, Matthysse, Garcia, Broner etc.Posted July 20, 2013 10:17 pm
I agree with the writer that MP was getting the better of JMM that night, but I quit reading when he said MP was one round from stopping him. This writer knows little about JMM, therefore the article must be total crap.Posted July 20, 2013 10:04 pm
Like Floyd said he dared him to fight him all he had to do was take the test that he is so willing to take now. Easy to dare the top of the food chain when you gotta build your way up. Floyd got criticized for fighting Judah after he lost to Balomir. Floyd would be criticized for fighting Pac coming off 2 losses. And beating Rios whole is also coming off a loss would not qualify for Pac to get the lottery ticket against FloydPosted July 20, 2013 9:31 pm
like I said before, I will fight Pacquiao if promises not to hurt me.Posted July 20, 2013 9:21 pm
Elmatador, do you really think anyone in their right mid would fight Ped Man Marquez along with Ped Master Angel Hereida in of all places Mexico? That’s like sending a lamb into the house of the wolves. Manny would be down 11 and 1/2 rounds as he stepped into the ring. Marquez doesn’t dare fight him again, and we all know why. Hopefully he doesn’t get busted when he fights Bradley, and trust me, the longer Marquez continues to fight, sooner orlater he’s going to get busted just like Peterson, Toney, Jones, Tarver, Mosely and the rest of those cheaters. Marquez, Bradley and Mayweather tremble at the name of the legendary fighter that is Manny Pacquiao.Posted July 20, 2013 9:03 pm
TMT all day. Will beat Pac, already beat pee drinker.Posted July 20, 2013 7:14 pm
Mayweather is a disgrace to boxing. chump’s record is laced with has beens, beaten record and old men. Mayweather ; known for the sucker punch heard around the world and running from manny for 6 years. This is the guy who claimed to be better than sugar Ray Robinson. Mayweathe wishes he could be a quarter of that talent. Now he faces Canelo. Ladies and gentlemen>>>>>> old cherry picker vs young cherry picker.Posted July 20, 2013 6:03 pm
Mayweather fans. Your boy is a great business man, a great used sales man, and the best fraud ive ever seen. Most of all, mayweather is the biggest puzzy in boxing.Posted July 20, 2013 5:45 pm
S. court. Are you an idiot or just an idiot. I see you dont know much about boxing, but maybe ping pong may be a better fit. Reading your post notes that you are a running weather fan.Posted July 20, 2013 5:43 pm
Sorry Pac,Marquez zeroed in on you after you missed a lazy jab! It was the perfect counter from a man who is the best at counterpunching.Posted July 20, 2013 4:43 pm
Lucky punch? What kid of imbicil is Pacquiao anyway?Posted July 20, 2013 4:31 pm
Sorry hecdog but your hugging on pacs nuts way to hard marquez agreed to a 5th figh but in mexico city it was pac that declined that offer. Why in the world woul marquez go to china he beat pacqauio marquez is now in the driver seat if pac wanted go avenge his loss he would have agreedPosted July 20, 2013 2:15 pm
I couldn’t even finish that crappy article. It was totally biased and terribly written. I don’t understand what he meant by “a magician who employed Hulk tricks”. WTF?Posted July 20, 2013 2:07 pm
I feel sorry for the next guy that has to fight the legendary Manny Pacquiao. Brandon Rios has guts to take him on. Brandon deserves a lot of credit for stepping up when Floyd, Marquez and Bradley wanted no part of the living legend. Fighters are suppose to take on the best. They are suppose to be brave and courageous and take on their elite. No excuses, no running and no hiding. They fight regardless of the money. What’s so hilarious is bradley, Marquez and Mayweather were all going to make a ton of money, but they all decided to fight themselves for pennies (Marquez & Bradley). The fear that entered their mind basically paralyzed them. I’ve never seen any fighter turn down millions to fight someone. Fear is something destructive. Floyd is the same big mouth that has been running for the last 10 years from Manny. He now wants manny to sign with Mayeather promotions before he accepts the fight? Hilarious. Manny Pacquiao is one of a kind. A true fearless warrior. Superman! The man that puts fear in the lives of the so called best fighters in the world. He challenges the same Ped Man (Marquez) to fight him again as all true fighters do only to get turned down due to fear. Manny Pacquiao continues to give people hope. He gets up and re-enters the squared circle against all odds. @MURDERMAN, I have to support my favorite fighter.Posted July 20, 2013 1:33 pm
But Floyd didnt do it “not saying he can’t beat pacman” but he shouldn’t be talking he hasn’t even fought him and probly won’tPosted July 20, 2013 11:14 am
Pacman did get robbed badly in the Bradley fight I gave only the last 2 rounds to Bradley, BUT getting ko’d by Marquez wasn’t a lucky punch a lucky punch is what Mosley caught Vargas with in their second fight a left hook with his eyes closed but Marquez drew in pacman little by little timing pacquiaos lazy jab pawing with his own jab than BOOM murder she wrote!Posted July 20, 2013 11:11 am
Estamos orgullosos de ustedes! Viva Pacquiao!
Marquez is a fraud in the 4th fight. Viva Pacquiao!
this piece reeks of sour grapes … bottom line.. JMM fought MP 4 times, each new fight sporting a more dominant outing than the former, and finally lured MP into a bomb in the 4th fight .. If MP, and not this scribe, used the words “lucky punch” than he is 1. in massive denial 2. brain damaged.. in either case he needs to shape up or STFOPosted July 20, 2013 11:00 am
Why does everyone always have fight? Can’t Pac and Floyd just get into the ring and have a nice dinner together and chat, maybe have a few drinks and shake hands when they’re finished?Posted July 20, 2013 10:40 am
The writer is a Filipino,
A man trains to throw punches his whole life, and lands a lucky one? Mr miyage talkin crapPosted July 20, 2013 6:25 am
He’s not dominating pac when that lucky punch hits pac. Your boy was just lucky because in last seconds, pac commit mistake. Why not marquez give him a rematch to shut up pacquiao’s mouth, lets see if he can do that again to pacquaio. Marquez should be brave enough to take a stand that he defeated pac convincingly without those doubts (lucky punch, peds etc). He’s legacy of defeating pac is still tainted with doubts why not clear this first, if his after on his legacy.Posted July 20, 2013 6:19 am
PEDquiáoPosted July 20, 2013 5:38 am
It’s still the biggest fight in the history of the sport!Posted July 20, 2013 5:20 am
This was no lucky punch… Marquez had thrown that punch alot in the last couple of fights and it was only a matter of time before he landed it cleanly.Posted July 20, 2013 5:20 am
and the best is that Marquez had been trying it several times and Pac still fell for it.Posted July 20, 2013 4:02 am
Pacman is delusional,that was NO lucky punch, that was a laser guided bomb that destroyed his chin.Posted July 20, 2013 3:59 am
@hecdog- come on dude! Really? Enough is enough! Damn!Posted July 20, 2013 2:35 am
Pacquiao is fighting Rios next. Floyd is fighting Canelo. I think Floyd is the one showing greatness currently. Pacquiao is a good dude that gave us a lot of entertaining fights but Floyd is the man.Posted July 20, 2013 2:34 am
This is a great article from a kababayan. It hits the nail in the head
It wasn’t a lucky punch that flattened Pacquiao… He’s an idiot if he thinks that, but he knows better..
Pac was careless… He was hit hard earlier in the fight and knocked down. With a telegraphed lead overhand shot. A great fighter doesn’t generally get hit with those type of punches..
Pac was as wide open as the side of a barn for the finisher.. The kind of opening you pray for … All JMM had to do was throw, because Pacquiao was wearing a huge sign that said, “PLEASE HIT ME!!!”Posted July 20, 2013 1:53 am
The article is crap in content and style, like many of the comments that followed. The facts are that these two fellows are the best of their era by yards. That they have different styles and fight within similar divisions, and that they have never fought each other is a deep sadness for boxing and for fans. Don’t bother polishing your knobs as you role out the it was his fault rubbish for the fight night happening. There is shared liability there, and it reveals the sickness of boxing administration, its dysfunction and corruption. There simply needs to be an over arching regulatory body that makes the fights that should happen. How to get there I have no idea.
I always felt that PAC had something to bring to the ring that may had never before encountered. His lack of convention was a puzzle. I also think may would have had the skills and smarts more than anyone else alive to work out the puzzle. For me a real 50 50 fight it would have been. Alas dear Roderick, it is not tho be. Everyone is the loser in this one.Posted July 20, 2013 1:46 am
If Punkcquiao tries to outbox JMM he gets schooled, if he wants to KO JMM he gets KTFOed, JMM is his PAPI and the whole world knows it, even Pacturds secretly accept itPosted July 20, 2013 1:39 am
Or maybe JMM is one of the LUCKIEST men in the world cuz he KOed sparring partners with the same punch and caught Punkcquiao with exactly the SAME punch immediatly after raising from the canvas, AND KOED HIM WITH THE SAME PUNCH!!!!!! This is what I call to be luckyPosted July 20, 2013 1:37 am
Damn this “writter” is a HUGE Punckiaos nuthugger LMAO it seems that recognizing that their hypejob hero is put forever out is so harsing for their sore losers ass. Let me say this, Punkcquiao not only lost 2 in a row but 3 IN A ROW, he lost to his papi JMM 3 but got his christmas gift from judges that night. Punkcquiao destroying JMM before being KTFOed?? Lucky punch?? JMM caught him with the same punch exactly after touching the canvas with his glove, he also KOed a sparring partner with the same punch. Punkcquiao was NEVER destroying JMM, Pacturds think so cuz his bloody nose but that was all, JMM was counterpunching him to death. Now I encourage you to accept this once and for all “If Punkcquiao tries to outbox JMM he gets schooled, if he wants to KO JMM he gets KTFOed, JMM is his PAPI”. If I was JMM I would NEVER give Punkcquiao a 5th fight cuz he made him wait a couple of years to give him the rematch and the 3rd fight BTW there is nothing JMM can do to improve the outcome of their last outing.Posted July 20, 2013 1:29 am
The El Paso Fight Prophet
Peej, Dont you have a life or a job. Seems like your mission in life is to make excuses for floyd when he already does a good job of that himself. Peej = LOSER and Nuthhugger. Sorry dude but I call it like a see it.Posted July 20, 2013 12:44 am
The writer must be a pactard obvoously!Posted July 20, 2013 12:32 am
Pacquioa is on the decline. Ive always said it. Mayweather can beat Pacquioa BUT wants to wait until Pacquioa loses and is battered. Mayweather can beat him but is unsure about his style. Pacquioa does pack a punch and even though Floyd can win, he will get busted up.Posted July 20, 2013 12:22 am
On top of that Floyd dared him a few times and Pac didn’t take the test.Posted July 20, 2013 12:15 am
I hate when folks say it was a lucky punch. I guess he accidentally threw the punch. I guess when he knocked hi down that was a lucky punch also. So that would mean every KO Pac has must of been lucky punches landed also.Posted July 20, 2013 12:04 am
Writer, you’re delusional. Anyway, the past is past it’s now the present and Pacquaio lost to Marquez, he was knocked out really knocked out. Nothing can change that.Posted July 20, 2013 12:04 am
Rightttttttt sureeeeee Pacquioa. What about the first knockdown? Was that also a lucky punch? Pathetic excuse. I hope Mayweather kicks his ass one day.Posted July 20, 2013 12:03 am
Correct marquez was on something in that fight LOL
PAC could have had the fight ages ago instead of whining about a 20 dollar drug test. Now all of a sudden he is talking lets fight? Should have thought about that during the first 3 times PBF tried to negoiate with you PAC.Posted July 19, 2013 11:31 pm