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TARK

Foreman would have done better vs Young if he came into the ring in the same condition he fought Frazier.

But that doesn’t say he wins.. Young was not Frazier. He didn’t walk into you face first and load up one left hook after another. If he did Foreman would have taken him out … but Young was a boxer.

Slick boxers, with lightning quick jabs, just had to jab the crap out of Foreman because he couldn’t slip jabs or straight right worth a damn. Later in the fight Young clipped Foreman with a right and floored him.

Posted August 27, 2013 10:04 pm 


BLUESMAN

Again Tark, I’ll have to respectfully disagree with you, although partially… What you seem to fail to grasp is that Foreman’s style under the tutelage of Gil Clancy was VERY different than his style during the Ali fight and before. It’s what made Foreman lost to Young, in my opinion. Read my previous post again. As far as Foreman’s conditioning, yes you’re right- he wasn’t prepared to fight a hard 15 round fight. And yes the partying etc is all true. But the Foreman that fought Frazier in 1973 WOULD’VE demolished Young in the first 2 rounds, end of story. But hey, as always, it’s been fun my friend. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. :-)

Posted August 25, 2013 4:37 am 


TARK

That is just totally wrong BLUESMAN… You obviously do not know much about the science of physical conditioning. Foreman, at 24, was absolutely at his physical peak when he met Frazier. If you saw his steel-like lower back at the weigh-in you’d know what I’m talking about. It was his first title shot and he was a HUGE underdog..

He was trained to the minute… Frazier was fat as a pig.

That made Foreman rich and extremely famous. Also FAT. He still had residual conditioning for his Roman and Norton fights, and diligently lost the weight he put on, but he was really partying, playing, eating, drinking, and chasing tail… He was living it up and had millions of adoring fans.. Beautiful women wanted him.. He also felt he was invincible. He was contemptuous of Ali and anyone else.

He came into the Ali training camp in horrlble condition and never half achieved the condition that was necessary to fight hard for 15 rounds.. which he didn’t think was needed..

He learned 3 things from the Ali fight… Be in shape… Take your time and don’t punch yourself out… You don’t need to knock everyone out early.

In the Young fight he learned 4 lessons… You need to think… Defend well… Be patient… and get some boxing skills.

Posted August 24, 2013 2:29 pm 


BLUESMAN

@ Tark: I’ll respectfully disagree, as Foreman pounded Ali for a good portion of their fight. Of course, Ali blocked many, but not all, of Foreman’s punches. That Foreman, in my mind, destroys Young. I do agree that Foreman was in better shape for the Frazier fight, though not physically quite in his prime. He was physically in his prime, I think, by the time he fought Jimmy Young at 229 pounds. He was in great shape when he fought Ron Lyle at 226. But what I’m saying is, to make a long story short, Foreman’s style after the Ali fight, under the tutelage of Gil Clancy, was much different- too cautious and not enough aggression, which in my estimation is why Foreman lost the Young fight. That’s all I’m saying. Don’t get me wrong though, Jimmy Young was a very good fighter.

Posted August 24, 2013 1:40 am 


TARK

What I meant was… Foreman was in fabulous shape for Frazier… Horrible shape for Ali… Fair shape, but not good enough for Young.

Posted August 23, 2013 5:17 pm 


TARK

NO BLUESMAN…, The Foreman who fought Ali hadn’t gone over 2 rounds in 3 years.. George came into the Ali camp 60 pounds overweight and you could see the soft flesh love handles below his waistline from the back at the weigh-in.. I knew he was in trouble.

At the Frazier weigh-in I noticed his lower back was solid as a rock all the way down… That 217 was real weight… Frazier’s 214 wasn’t… Frazier looked horrible. He was fat and looked like a bowl of jiggling Jello.

Foreman was in better shape for Young, but not good enough.. Young pretty much knew Foreman couldn’t handle a jab.. It was no secret.. All he had to do was keep popping George in the face and keep moving until he got into the late rounds … Young had a better jab and better tactical footwork than Ali, so it was no problem.

Posted August 23, 2013 5:14 pm 


BLUESMAN

@ Tark: Thing is, the version of Foreman that fought Ali was a different version of the Foreman that fought Young, style-wise. There’s no doubt in my mind that the version of Foreman that fought Ali would’ve ko’ed Young in the first 2 rounds. The version of Foreman that fought Ali was VERY aggressive & threw A LOT of punches, not wasting time. When Foreman fought Young, who WAS a good fighter, Foreman was much more tentative & just took his time way too much, as he was trying to be a more methodical fighter due to Gil Clancy’s tutelage (not that I’m knocking the great Gil Clancy by any means), which just wasn’t his style. I know that often we don’t agree, but it’s fun sharing opinions. Have a good weekend. :-)

Posted August 23, 2013 3:24 am 


Tj

Izabel,

GREAT paragliding pics!! Aren’t you scared??

Posted August 21, 2013 7:52 pm 


TARK

Assyrian God…, Great Post!!!

Posted August 21, 2013 6:51 pm 


TARK

No problem… Accepted Sean aka Simon

Posted August 21, 2013 6:48 pm 


Sean aka Simon

TARK WILL YOU ACEPT MY APOLOGY PLEASE???

Posted August 21, 2013 6:14 pm 


Sean aka Simon

Oh and sorry for the bit.ch and the stupid fb message…or isn’t that your facebook profile??

facebook.com/izabel.delima.3998

Posted August 21, 2013 5:41 pm 


Sean aka Simon

TARK!!! WILL YOU ACCEPT MY APOLOGY???

Posted August 21, 2013 5:08 pm 


de Lima I.

Look Simon — TARK, Tark, Takiar — this is confusing, especially with jet-lag and I totally misread TARK’s comments. Completely my fault!

Maybe you’ve mistaken TARK for Tark, because Tark sounds like a chauvinist.

Posted August 21, 2013 4:30 pm 


Sean aka Simon

You know what? You’re a stupid bit.ch

Posted August 21, 2013 1:41 pm 


de Lima I.

Just as I thought — no chauvinist. I don’t care about what other people says anyway.

Posted August 21, 2013 10:05 am 


BRUCE

SOON THEY WILL BE SHOWING HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING IN MACDONALDS.

Posted August 21, 2013 6:17 am 


TARK

Besides… This article is talking about 21 years ago not 40 years ago.

Posted August 21, 2013 12:58 am 


TARK

Foreman could never handle a jab.. It’s nice for you to pick a slot of time where he didn’t meet a good tall heavyweight with a good jab.

Norton could not back up well or take a hard punch.. He had a cross armed defense like Frazier … and was very vulnerable to big punchers.

What about when George fought Ali and Young???

Posted August 21, 2013 12:54 am 


BLUESMAN

@ TARK : I’m talking about the 1973-1974 version of Foreman, NOT the version of him that fought Tommy Morrison. But we’re all entitled to our opinion, even when we’re wrong, like you. ;-)

Posted August 20, 2013 8:54 pm 


TARK

Tark’s a chauvinist who thinks women don’t belong in boxing sports”

I never said anything of the kind once… That’s just stupid to claim I have anything against women in boxing at any level.

Posted August 20, 2013 7:42 pm 


de Lima I.

Sean — “His posts are all very confusing”

No it was my fault. I’ve misread Tark’s comments — I’m totally jet-lagged.
I’ve read the comments again now and it’s obvious what he meant. But thanks anyway.

Posted August 20, 2013 5:19 pm 


Sean

”Sure, MA was a boxer with amazing foot speed, strong chin and a great heart.
And no disrespect to MA but fact is he wasn’t a big puncher, he was no body puncher, he couldn’t fight inside and he had a horrible
defense in comparison to WK’s defense. MA got hit a lot!
GF was “easy” to beat for MA because he couldn’t box and the only great boxer MA ever faced was LH.
LL, VK, WK — they all would beat MA or GF.

BTW DH is very underrated! Of course would this guy beat MA or GF — only LH he wouldn’t beat.”

@deLima, Tark’s a chauvinist who thinks women don’t belong in boxing sports…or discussions.What he was trying to say but totally failed to say it well is don’t worry….your post is 100% correct. His posts are all very confusing…

Posted August 20, 2013 4:30 pm 


It’s Me, Ernie

The brilliant Larry Holmes more than likely would have got Haye drunk, then put him to sleep. Other than the toe fight, Haye has put on some spectacular performances though. Great heavyweight boxers are becoming more rare these days. That legendary jab gets old in the face for twelve or more rounds, then comes the overhand right. That’s all folks…

Posted August 20, 2013 4:07 pm 


TARK

@BLUESMAN… You say…, “Foreman WASN’T a “boxer” per say, put he did what he did VERY WELL, which was cutting off the ring & destroying people. Watch his fight with Joe Roman, & you’ll see what I mean by cutting off the ring- he was impossible to get away from.”

LMFAO…

Roman was a HORRIBLE heavyweight.. Jimmy Young had NO problems getting away from Foreman.. Even inept Tommy Morrison boxed George’s ass… Foreman never fought Holmes because he would have been torn apart… They were the same age and both boxed for 30 years… Holmes outboxed Mercer by 10,000 miles… Mercer made super short work of the inept Tommy Morrison… Morrison outboxed the not too hard to get away from Foreman.

Michael Moorer was boxing the piss out of Foreman but got stupid… That was the LAST and ONLY KO punch Foreman threw in his last 7 fights.. He didn’t even score another knockdown.

Posted August 20, 2013 2:39 pm 


TARK

He’s not… Holmes is the best boxer in Heavyweight History… But he was never super strong.

But David Haye is so skilled and strong he gives Holmes one HELL of a fight. Saying Holmes would destroy Haye is sheer stupidity and ignorance.

Posted August 20, 2013 2:29 pm 


De Lima I.

TARK — I’m really interested in good arguments so what makes DH the better boxer than LH in your opinion?

Who has the better combination of boxing and punching skills?

Posted August 20, 2013 1:30 pm 


RUFFKNIGHT

You betcha….Roman would show all of them today!

Posted August 20, 2013 12:42 pm 


It’s Me, Ernie

You got that right…

Posted August 20, 2013 12:18 pm 


BIG FOOT

Having Roman as a heavyweight contender sure shows us how much better the Heavyweight division was as compared with today doesn’t it?

Posted August 20, 2013 10:07 am 


BIG FOOT

Foreman vs. Roman is kind of a poor example because Foreman would beat that LH no matter what.

Posted August 20, 2013 9:59 am 


AssyrianGod

Bluesman – Foreman was good at cutting off the ring against opponents, agreed there. He was a very effective fighter in his day. My main problem with him is that todays heavies (or some of them) are so much bigger and faster, so I cant see, punchers chance aside, how he could beat Wlad, Lewis or Vitali. I could see him beating Bowe (who had no heart), Chagaev, Chisora etc, and some of the big guys who have no speed and mobility, Grant, McBride, Fields etc though.
As for Larry Holmes, very underrated fighter, i’ll probably get hate from some here now, but if Holmes was around ten years earlier i’d take him over Ali, Frazier and Foreman.

Posted August 20, 2013 9:14 am 


BIG FOOT

Holmes did do surprising well though against McCall who had recently KO’D Lewis in the 2nd round.

Posted August 20, 2013 5:41 am 


BLUESMAN

@ Asyrian God: I agree with everything you said about Holmes, btw.

Posted August 20, 2013 4:52 am 


BLUESMAN

@ Assyrian God: Yeah, Foreman DID actually have a great jab. As far as skills, well, I’ll put it this way: Foreman WASN’T a “boxer” per say, put he did what he did VERY WELL, which was cutting off the ring & destroying people. Watch his fight with Joe Roman, & you’ll see what I mean by cutting off the ring- he was impossible to get away from. Even Muhammad Ali said after the first round of trying to get away from Foreman he ‘d (Ali) be finished, which is why he employed the “rope-a-dope.” As for stamina, yes, Foreman was lacking in that department, but it never really seemed to matter, with the exception of the Ali fight. Now I’ll bring up the Jimmy Young fight here for a second: Thing about that fight, Foreman was PHYSICALLY in his prime at 229 pounds, but he had changed his style under the tutelage of Gil Clancy, who wanted to make Foreman a “boxer,” rather than letting Foreman be his steamrolling self- BIG mistake! This, in my humble opinion, is why Foreman lost to Young. The version Foreman that fought Frazier, Norton, & Ali would have, in my estimation, destroyed Young, not to mention Povetkin, who, unlike the lean 1970′s version of Foreman, is kinda pudgy. I don’t see how in the world Povetkin could be half as strong as Foreman, but that’s me. As for Foreman’s hand speed, in the 1970′s, it was definitely wasn’t fast, but I can’t say it was slow either, & he was VERY good with punch placement, thus being VERY accurate. As for Foreman’s jab, watch his fight with George Chuvalo. Personally, with the exception of Muhammad Ali, I see a prime 1970′s George Foreman plowing through anyone. But I DO respect your opinion, and I hope you have a good week. :-)

Posted August 20, 2013 4:51 am 


De Lima I.

TARK — This question below is intended for you.

Posted August 20, 2013 4:36 am 


De Lima I.

When I said that DH wouldn’t beat LH I meant a LH at his peak —
but in your opinion I’m wrong and DH would even beat this version of LH?
Wasn’t LH a better boxer than DH?

Posted August 20, 2013 4:06 am 


AssyrianGod

@Bluesman – errr, just what skills did Foreman possess? Great jab? Great punch variety and output? great handspeed?, great defence? great footwork?, great stamina? Foreman just used crude brute force to bludgeon men weaker and smaller than himself. Povetkin is heavier than a prime Foreman, just as strong, and a far better boxer. As for VK, WK and LL, Foreman would quite literally have no advantage over any of them, not in any department.

Posted August 20, 2013 3:19 am 


AssyrianGod

This article compares the Holmes of 1992 to the Haye of today, clearly a 1992 version of Holmes would have NO CHANCE against a prime Haye. Holmes was beginning to fade by 1985, so by 1992 he was not the same fighter. Tark, I would say in Holmes defence that he was certainly faded when he lost to Spinks, and very rusty and undertrained when he fought Tyson. A 1978-1983 version of Holmes would surely have beaten Spinks and stood a great chance of beating Tyson.

Posted August 20, 2013 3:13 am 


TARK

Holmes was knocked out when he fought someone as fast and hard punching as Haye… Holmes was beaten by a light heavyweight twice.

Haye smashed a couple of big heavyweights… He’s a powerful hitter and Larry wasn’t… Larry couldn’t run over Spinks at least.

Posted August 20, 2013 2:14 am 


BLUESMAN

@ Ernie: I couldn’t agree more. Some idiot was also talking about about Povetkin would beat Foreman, and that Foreman had no skills. Holmes woulda stopped Haye around the 6th round, I think. Haye has NO HEART and a glass chin.

Posted August 20, 2013 1:43 am 


It’s Me, Ernie

A prime Holmes would school Haye with ease. Where do these idiots come from anyway?

Posted August 20, 2013 12:39 am 


BLUESMAN

Jus kidn heh heh heh!

Posted August 19, 2013 10:20 pm 


BLUESMAN

Big Brown was the BEST! :-p

Posted August 19, 2013 10:20 pm 


TARK

A prime Holmes wouldn’t destroy Haye..

A prime Holmes couldn’t KO a China-chinned Norton after hitting Kenny with the kitchen sink.. A prime Holmes barely beat a novice Tim Witherspoon who had 15 pro fights and 7 amateur fights.. Larry got hit a ton by Tim, and blooper punching Norton got on Larry’s case a little too. Holmes weighed only 209 for Norton. Holmes’s lack of sheer physical strength didn’t help versus Michael Spinks and Mike Tyson. He couldn’t use his size to overpower Michael Spinks.

Holmes vs Haye would be a very tough fight.. Haye is a damned good boxer with every weapon in the book. He’s the physically strongest 210-pound boxer I’ve ever seen. Holmes might edge him. That’s it.

I believe Haye beats Ali just on being a better fundamental boxer and a much better puncher.

Posted August 19, 2013 7:10 pm 


Takiar

Hey guys, it’s current fighters at their current status against ’92 fighters at their ’92 status. Of course, a prime Holmes destroys Haye, but a ’92 Holmes ? Same for a prime Bowe against aging Vitali. I do see a prime Holyfield giving fits to both Klitshckos, especially Wlad. 21 years ago, Bowe, Lewis, Ruddock were all big guys even by today’s standards.

Posted August 19, 2013 6:49 pm 


BIG FOOT

Wasn’t seabuscuit Man o’Wars son?

Posted August 19, 2013 6:30 pm 


maracho

but Seabiscuit alwys rose to the occasion

Posted August 19, 2013 6:18 pm 


TARK

Secretariat had the fastest times and carried the heaviest poundage.

Posted August 19, 2013 5:38 pm 


maracho

ha ha just read this: “Who would win a race between Secretariat, Seabiscuit and Man ‘o War?

Those champion racehorses were separated by decades, but thanks to advances in science, it’s now possible to extract DNA from their remains, clone them, and bring exact copies of the legendary champions back to life.

foxnews.com/science/2013/08/19/worlds-largest-horse-registry-to-include-clones/#ixzz2cR8sGCc8

Posted August 19, 2013 1:25 pm 


TARK

De Lima Izabel…., That was a troll Tark who said that.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:53 pm 


CROMWELL

…and tall.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:46 pm 


TARK

Believer…., “It doesn’t matter if you are 188 pounds or 150 pounds. If you catch a man correctly to the head or the body”

It makes a huge difference if you’re a 188-pounder fighting a guy who’s a rock solid 220. If he’s really good he’ll murder you. That’s why they created the cruiserweight division for 200-pounders.

Michael Spinks was a great Light Heavyweight and spent 3 years building his body to 212 — and he still didn’t have a chance vs Mike Tyson… It wasn’t his natural weight and frame size so he wasn’t as fast and deadly with one shot.. Spinks got run over like a mack truck smashing a tricycle..

Tyson had the wrong style for Spinks. MS never had the natural size or strength to hold off a speedy 220lb attacker.. The guys who gave Tyson trouble were fast, skillful guys who weighed about 240 like Douglas and Lewis.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:39 pm 


Anonymous

You’re an idiot De Lima Izabel

Posted August 19, 2013 12:25 pm 


De Lima Izabel

Tark — .de Lima I. … You don’t know what you’re talking about..

Ok — It’s your opinion and I’ll respect it.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:18 pm 


BRUCE

WHY NOT HAVE MORE BELTS FOR THE BIG MEN,AFTER ALL THEY ONLY HAVE ABOUT SEVEN EACH.

Posted August 19, 2013 11:44 am 


de Lima I.

Layla — yes I’m in my late twenties. I may be young but I’m not naive. I’m not gonna claim that MA was the greatest heavyweight champion ever
just because almost everyone else claims that — I don’t go with the flow.

Sure, MA was a boxer with amazing foot speed, strong chin and a great heart.
And no disrespect to MA but fact is he wasn’t a big puncher, he was no body puncher, he couldn’t fight inside and he had a horrible
defense in comparison to WK’s defense. MA got hit a lot!
GF was “easy” to beat for MA because he couldn’t box and the only great boxer MA ever faced was LH.

LL, VK, WK — they all would beat MA or GF.

BTW DH is very underrated! Of course would this guy beat MA or GF — only LH he wouldn’t beat.

Posted August 19, 2013 11:41 am 


believer

TARK

Wladimir got up from every Sanders knockdown punch… The referee stopped the fight for precautionary reasons, but Wladimir wasn’t out…

When 188-pound Jose Luis Garcia hit Norton… Norton was out like a light.

The Sanders fight was before Manny Steward reworked Wladimir’s stance, footwork, and jab, and taught Wladimir how to clinch.. That actually took several years to do.. Wladimir had to unlearn a lot of bad habits.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:38 pm

It doesn’t matter if you are 188 pounds or 150 pounds. If you catch a man correctly to the head or the body, especially as a counter or from out of their sights it can have devastating effects.

It’s all about timing and excellence of execution that results in KO blows.

Posted August 19, 2013 11:39 am 


believer

TARK

Since you’re not Hopkins, you can’t tell how much the low blow hurt him… He gets to rest up to 5 minutes according to the rules. He didn’t take 5 minutes.

Cleverly is a clone of Calzaghe.. The only difference is Cleverly only fought 26 cherry-picked opponents.. Then got a lot braver than Calzaghe ever did by fighting a massively great prime fighter.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:18 am

Well said Tark.

Posted August 19, 2013 11:36 am 


It’s Me, Ernie

Urination factoids, nice work Tard…

Posted August 19, 2013 11:30 am 


K2 Fan

Another ” brilliant “article by the incomparable boxing ” expert ” Slater . He
wrote some doozies , but this one is right up there ! Along with HIS brilliant analysis ,
he is right on par with ” experts ” like ; Peej , Joey , Bruce etc., . Still ,
somehow they all seem to have omitted ONE MORE ” legend ” that would have no trouble with either the Klitchkos or Lewis : the legendary Chuck Weppner ! Why not ? If Holy seems to be able to BEAT Vitaly , why can’t
Chuck Weppner beat ANYONE in today’s ” weak ” H/W division ? After all , did he not go 15 rounds with ” the greatest ” ?

Posted August 19, 2013 11:20 am 


CROMWELL

Don’t be bitter Bruce.

Posted August 19, 2013 10:54 am 


Layla Ali

Assyryangod..deLima and Tark…are you under age 30?? ALI IS THE KING OF BOXING!! Deal with it.

Posted August 19, 2013 10:53 am 


BRUCE

TODAY THERE ALL BUMS.

Posted August 19, 2013 10:37 am 


Tyrone Jones

No I’d have to say that Cuba and the Eastern Block had been dominating amateur boxing since at least the 70′s and way before they were allowed to turn pro. The likes of the Klitchkos in the pros didnt come about until the fall of the Soviet Union so it cant just be scoffed off as coincidence. Plus, the Commies and possibly even present day Russians fixated on propaganda that put a lot of money and effort into teaching boxing to children from a early age which indicates that they weren’t just concentrating on who becomes heavyweight

Posted August 19, 2013 10:30 am 


Reem

Bowe beating Vitali lulz what is this dude smoking?

Posted August 19, 2013 8:18 am 


Breal

Wlad would beat Holyfield, sorry to disappoint you. Haye beating Holmes? That’s a flat out joke. And Bowe beating Vitali?

Posted August 19, 2013 7:41 am 


Anonymous

TURBO HAMSTER

wlad vs ali…..I would like to hear your opinion??

Posted August 19, 2013 7:25 am 


Anonymous

turbo hamster what’s your problem this time? lol

Posted August 19, 2013 6:19 am 


RUFFKNIGHT

Nobody ever seems to remember Orzubek Nazarov (was that his name?) anyway he was a lightweight titleist for 4 years back in the 90′s until he had an eye injury.

Posted August 19, 2013 5:45 am 


Turbo-Hamster

You are shameless TARK you silly big s.l.u.t.

Posted August 19, 2013 5:41 am 


RUFFKNIGHT

Well it would seem that during Soviet times that individuals would have been less likely to even want to take up boxing in the amateurs. None of them would be destined to turn pro and have a money making career. If it was like that in the USA then I doubt that we would ever have seen Ali, Frazier, Spinks, Leonard ET AL ever put on gloves. What for? to get beat on and then eventually work in some factory or something. Now with the opportunity to make plenty of money or even just some money there are plenty of guys willing to enter the sport in these countries that have a relatively low income per capita, their hungry. This is the decision of the individuals and not a propaganda plan to build up a lot of good heavyweights.

Posted August 19, 2013 5:40 am 


AssyrianGod

The old Eastern Bloc is providing good fighters in most weight classes, but it was inevitable that it wouldnt happen overnight. However there were quite a few before the Klitchkos; Kostya Tzyu and Yuri Arbachakev (maybe bad spellin there) to name two, also Istvan Kovaks, Leonard Dorin and a couple of Bulgarians (Tontchev, Krastev) hewld titles. At heavy Maskaev, Zolkin etc werent bad, and Lewis said Zlatko Mavrovic was his toughest opponent.

If you look at the rankings, its full of Russians, Poles, Ukranians, Armenians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Albanians, Hungarians, Croats, Serbs, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Georgians, Czechs etc…or people with names denoting those ethnicities.

The increase in fighters from those areas has had a positive effect on British, German, French, Italian, Spanish and Danish fighters etc too…because boxers from those countries now have more fighters and sparring partners on their doorstep, meaning more experience and better skills.

Posted August 19, 2013 4:43 am 


Tyrone Jones

Tark, could you please show me evidence that the Commonwealth of Independent States has focused on heavyweight boxing and is it a sort of supremacist propaganda move? The area has many great amateurs/Olympians in the lower weights but weren’t they even better during the Cold War?

Posted August 19, 2013 2:57 am 


TomCribb

Cleverley is no Calzaghe clone, he is not in the same league as Calzaghe in any department. Hopkins was crying foul and trying to buy time in that fight, he couldnt handle the pace or how often he was getting tagged, never could have even if he was 30 yrs old! He ALWAYS relied on slowing down his opponent and making them fight HIS fight. After about 3 rounds Calzaghe worked Hopkins out and beat him like a drum. And thats one major difference between Calzaghe and Cleverley, or actually ANY previous Hopkins opponent, Calzaghe had a great ability to figure out any style and adapt his game during a fight.

Posted August 19, 2013 1:26 am 


TARK

…., “Too bad the Cold War didnt allow the Russians to show their stuff in the pros for many were probably better than the Klitchkos”

Not really… It would be pretty fabulous if that happened.

If you analyze their amateur records none was better than the Klitschkos.. If you look at the CIS programs to develop competent professionals, they didn’t really get going good until the K-Bros turned pro.. They’re mostly geared towards the Heavyweight Division because that’s where the money was preceived to be.. So they are hard at work developing more heavyweight prospects—but you aren’t likely to see a lot K-Bro clones coming out of the CIS, or former Soviet states.. Talent like that doesn’t come along every decade.

Posted August 19, 2013 1:10 am 


maracho

de Lima I, Ali boxed a lot of big dudes and as we just seen was willing to go to Russia and Cuba to fight the best. Heck he even did MMA against giants. True grit like his or few and far between these days and thats why those past eras would have beat today’s

Posted August 19, 2013 1:08 am 


maracho

Tark i do think Hopkins has been fighting as good as ever and Calzaghe was calling out him and Jones for years. On the other hand when Calzaghe retired right when the tremendous Super Six began discussions I suspected a tad bit of duckishness

Posted August 19, 2013 1:03 am 


maracho

Interesting factoid Tark

Posted August 19, 2013 1:00 am 


Stefful Tuttul

The Klitschkos beat them all.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:57 am 


maracho

Yeah steroids been around since Zeus and even the likes of that puffy faced dude Babe Ruth drank a little from that pseudo fountain of youth

Posted August 19, 2013 12:34 am 


TARK

Ali refused to give urine samples following the Foreman fight… In his autobiography he says he couldn’t pee… They tried several times to get samples after the fight, Ali said he couldn’t pee.

They came to his hotel room the following morning to collect a urine sample… Ali said he still couldn’t pee so they finally left empty handed.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:26 am 


Tyrone Jones

Hmm I knew Ali used amphetamines to to deaden pain and fatigue so I guess he would have used roidz too

Posted August 19, 2013 12:19 am 


TARK

Since you’re not Hopkins, you can’t tell how much the low blow hurt him… He gets to rest up to 5 minutes according to the rules. He didn’t take 5 minutes.

Cleverly is a clone of Calzaghe.. The only difference is Cleverly only fought 26 cherry-picked opponents.. Then got a lot braver than Calzaghe ever did by fighting a massively great prime fighter.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:18 am 


TARK

Last Tark post was a troll.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:10 am 


maracho

The Russians used PEDS too ya know but Ali did have what appeared to be steroid induced hyperthyroidism hyperglycemia.

Posted August 19, 2013 12:10 am 


Tyrone Jones

Maracho, thats true but then Ali was known to have used performance enhancing drugs so….all’s fare in the cold war

Posted August 18, 2013 11:57 pm 


maracho

Interesting video but I believe Ali was past his prime and had already fought three rounds against someone else. However, there is no doubt that this dude would have developed into a good pro if given the chance

Posted August 18, 2013 11:51 pm 


Tyrone Jones

Here is the video youtube.com/watch?v=sZQ9dhQRahA#at=199

Posted August 18, 2013 11:35 pm 


Tyrone Jones

Its to bad the Cold War didnt allow the Russians to show their stuff in the pros for many were probably better than the Klitchkos. Here is Muhammad Ali getting whooped by Igor Vystosky who also beat Teofino Stevenson twice.

Posted August 18, 2013 11:29 pm 


BIG FOOT

I don’t think Chaegev should be in anyone’s top ten.

Posted August 18, 2013 11:03 pm 


BLUESMAN

EXCELLENT article, Mr. Slater! :-)

Posted August 18, 2013 10:27 pm 


jackson

suprisingly i agree with every post tark wrote—smart, clear-eyed boxing analysis. maybe time to do some journalism.

Posted August 18, 2013 9:21 pm 


Dionysus

That’s like saying kids from the past are better with computers than kids in school today… WRONG.

Posted August 18, 2013 9:18 pm 


Dionysus

Klitschkos are like nothing the heavyweight world has ever seen. They are massive, in great shape, tons of power and skill, smart, vitali’s chin is harder than granite. None of the past fighters would be able to beat a prime Wlad or Vitali. Same for Lennox Lewis, he was a great big boxer with lots of power, great skill and ring generalship. Those guys from back then didnt train like these guys do today. The guys today train and workout much more fitting for boxing and their diets are more on point. Guys from the past would get thrashed by the aforementioned 3 heavies!!!!

Posted August 18, 2013 9:16 pm 


Alonzo

It is funny how often we have these arguments on yesterday’s heavys vs today’s heavys. Usually people side more with yesterday’s heavys stating that they fought better competition. As much as I like Larry Holmes glad to see someone (Bigfoot) point out those “great” opponents of yesteryear.

Posted August 18, 2013 6:46 pm 


Alonzo

“thetruth101

Today’s Heavyweights vs Yesterdays Heavyweights reminds me of the Barber Scene in Coming to America. “The White Man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ass.” ”

Hee hee!! He fought Joe Louis when Joe Louis was seventy years old!!!

Posted August 18, 2013 6:42 pm 


BEARS(un f n fadeable son!!)

good stuff tark and i would add. i favor the klitschkos and lennox over anyone from the past

Posted August 18, 2013 6:26 pm 


AssyrianGod

Norton was not even always great against light punching fighters, he was totally outboxed by Lorenzo Zannon before ko’ing him late on.
Lyle, like Foreman, relied on his greater strength, something he couldnt to today, unless it was against the smaller of the fighters around.
Quarry was too small, and a sucker for a good jab, Lewis and the K Bros would destroy him.
Bugner rarely used his tools..If he fought Vitali, Lewis or Wlad, it would play out like the Johnson fight, with Bugner just looking to survive and pick up his cheque. He might prod his way past someone like Arreola though.
Jimmy Young? Same as Bugner.
Earnie Shavers might get a few ko’s, I could see him beating Malik Scott for example, but no way againt the very top fighters, and he himself was chinny.
Frazier, too small and too open by far. Again, he could probably beat Adamek, Mormek or Cunningham, but any competent 6ft 5 or over fighter would beat him.
Patterson-again, way too small, too chinny and too slow on his feet.
As for the likes of Jimmy Ellis, Earnie Terrell, George Chuvalo, Oscar Bonavena, Henry Cooper, Mac Foster, Ingmar Johansson, Eddie Machen, Brian London, Eduardo Corletti, Thad Spencer, Leotis Martin, oe Erskine, Karl Mildenburger, Ruudi Lubbers etc..I seriously couldnt see any of them beating anyone in the top 25 today.

Posted August 18, 2013 5:59 pm 


AnonyMouse

With those old heavies, some of em might have beaten the smaller guys out there today like Adamek, Scott, Chisora or USS Cunningham, or the fat ”80′S style” guys like Arreola, Welliver, McDermott or Stiverne…You could make an argument for guys like Ali, Holmes, Bugner, Ellis or Young outboxing someone like Adamek or Arreola, but LL, VK and WK, no way. You might see someone like Foreman or Lyle overpowering Chisora, Scott or USS, but they wouldnt be able to do that to even Fury or Pulev, let alone VK, WK or LL.

Posted August 18, 2013 5:41 pm 


Tark

..de Lima I. … You don’t know what you’re talking about..

Posted August 18, 2013 5:39 pm 


AnonyMouse

JC was always going to be a bad style matchup for BHOP, JC had prety amazing high workrate, volume punching, movement, speed, stamina – thats why BHOP ducked out twice. Age isnt a factor, BHOP was never fast in the first place, and he had some of the very best wins of his career just before and also since JC beat him. The SD was an attempt to Job JC, BHOP lost that fight clearly. JC wouldve done the same to Toney, Benn, Tarver and so forth, too fast, too mobile, too many punches.

Posted August 18, 2013 5:33 pm 


Tarksan

Tark, have you been influenced by the slave trade notion that random mutations allow humans to progressively replace other humans? Fortunately, life is not about random accidents for although a lot of our sports skills and knowledge are contributed to our ancestors, so is our laziness, lack of focus, lack of faith, lack of fight, etc.. are passed on too.

Posted August 18, 2013 5:23 pm 


The Brits

The replay was shown several times, even the HBO commentators knew Hopkins was feining.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:59 pm 


The Brits

Hopkins made out that he had been hit full force below the belt, it was just a tap, it did not hurt him at all, Hopkins should have just got on with it, he was trying everything to get points deducted.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:57 pm 


TARK

….., “Hopkins feined that low blow.”

NO HE DIDN’T… Watch the fight… JC hit him low… You get an automatic rest when that happens and Hopkins didn’t take the 5-minutes alloted.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:40 pm 


TARK

Wladimir got up from every Sanders knockdown punch… The referee stopped the fight for precautionary reasons, but Wladimir wasn’t out…

When 188-pound Jose Luis Garcia hit Norton… Norton was out like a light.

The Sanders fight was before Manny Steward reworked Wladimir’s stance, footwork, and jab, and taught Wladimir how to clinch.. That actually took several years to do.. Wladimir had to unlearn a lot of bad habits.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:38 pm 


The Brits

Hopkins was ready to be stopped in the 10th round also, but he feined that low blow to get a rest for 5 minutes.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:34 pm 


TARK

Foreman had no skill at all… He was even out-boxed by horrible Tommy Morrison at that age… Little Jimmy Young easily out-boxed a prime-time Foreman … Povetkin has never been beaten and would have boxed Foreman’s ears off with little effort.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:33 pm 


The Brits

Wladimir is a great fighter, but he has been laid out, Sanders put one of the most famous beat downs on him in Boxing history, he hit the canvas like a sack of spuds, he would of been completely unconsious if the ref did not stop the fight.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:31 pm 


TARK

Brits…, “Calzaghe got the fight eventually and won comfortably”

A SD isn’t a comfortable margin… If one more judge thought Hopkins won it, he would have… Hopkins was 43 years old, so he would have won comfortably 10 years earlier, in his prime.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:29 pm 


The Brits

Hopkins ducked Calzaghe around 10 years ago, fight was agreed, then doubled his purse demand at the last minute, Calzaghe got the fight eventually and won comfortably even with Hopkins cheating tactics.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:23 pm 


PEEJ

You must mean on par with Arum ducking Floyd. Or any other fighter that was a threat like Guzman.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:18 pm 


The Brits

Bowe ran from Lewis and put his belt in a dustbin, blatant duck from Bowe, probably the most famous duck ever, on par with Mayweather ducking Pacquiao.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:07 pm 


BRUCE

COMPARING ALI TO THESE FAT BUMS TODAY, WATS NEXT RICKY BURNS BETTER THAN ROBERTO DURAN.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:06 pm 


De Lima I.

I agree with you AssyrianGod
“Ali was a light puncher, poor defence, and his natural size advantage over many of his foes wouldnt be there today.”

And he couldn’t fight inside.

Posted August 18, 2013 3:54 pm 


BIG FOOT

Also Evangelista,Randy Cobb, Marvis Frazier, or David Bey. Possibly not Weaver or Shavers either.

Posted August 18, 2013 3:47 pm 


JOEY

ANY HEAVY TODAY THAT GOES PAST SIX ROUNDS IS LOOKING FOR OXYGEN . ALL BUMS.

Posted August 18, 2013 3:46 pm 


BIG FOOT

Even Holmes would have trouble today. Sure he beat ATG Ali but by that time he was almost a zombie the ring so I can’t say that counts. He beat the somewhat glass jawed Norton who was past his prime and it was the fight of his life and damn near a draw. His win over Witherspoon was booed and a split decision. Well I don’t think that Leroy Jones, Scott Frank,Scott LeDoux, whom each he thumbed would be fighting for any title today and neither would Zanon, Rodriguez, Snipes, Leon Spinks,Snipes Occasio would be either.

Posted August 18, 2013 3:36 pm 


nemo

joey knows s**t about training and PEDs

Posted August 18, 2013 2:45 pm 


JOEY

BOTH THE KLITS BROS ARE PED USERS.

Posted August 18, 2013 2:28 pm 


BRUCE

ALL OF TODAYS HEAVYWEIGHTS ARE BUMS, THATS WHY THEY HAVE TO SHARE 15 BELTS.

Posted August 18, 2013 2:09 pm 


PEEJ

I disagree with that but unfortunately there really is no way to find out.

Posted August 18, 2013 1:53 pm 


AssyrianGod

Ken Norton had a Glass Jaw and folded every time he met a strong fighter with a punch, he was only good against light hitting boxers and hit and move types. He would have folded against Tim Witherspoon and Frank Bruno, let alone Wlad, Vitali and Lewis.
Foreman relied on his superior size and strength. He had poor skills, a poor defence, was slow and had poor stamina. His size and strength advantages would be gone today, most of the top heavies now are bigger, stronger, faster, fitter and more skilled than Foreman, he would have nothing to offer.
Frazier couldnt fight big men, just too small, he would be a good cruiser today. The crude Foreman obliterated him twice, and he barely scraped past a 22 year old green but 6ft 5 Joe Bugner. The KLits and Lewis would take him very early.
Ali was a light puncher, poor defence, and his natural size advantage over many of his foes wouldnt be there today. He had a good chin for his era, but if he is caught and dropped by 185lbs Cooper and 200 lbs Frazier..imagine how often and harder he would be caught by bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled men than them?

Posted August 18, 2013 1:46 pm 


PEEJ

Americans don’t really care about the Heavyweight scene. So we could really care less about the Wlad fighting. Heck I wouldn’t be surprised if Vitalis fights where shown more in America than Wlad. Americans actually like watching Vitali fight. Wlad is just too boring.

Posted August 18, 2013 12:38 pm 


de Lima I.

JOE — no disrespect to you but your post is pure nonsense.

“What is hight? When Chisaro Del Boy beat Helenius (although was denied victory) he was not tall. And, how tall and skilled was Lamon Brewster when he knocked out Wlad? Why did Wlad wait till Lamon was done to bring him to Germany? How about Corrie Sanders, Ross Purity, Chris Bird, Lennox Lewis’s (Pizza Face Battle). Before the fight was stopped, it became abviously a onesided fight that put the health of a boxer at risk. And that was a fat Lewis! How about Mike Tyson in his prime, do you really agree that Wlad could stand half of the fight with the Iron Mike of the 80? Any version of Vitali can’t beat a prime Foreman, Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Tyson and the list seems not to be exhaustive. ”

Height will always be an advantage if you know how to use it effectively — and WK knows very well how to use his height and reach advantages.
He has a perfect combination of height, strength and superior skills, the same is true for VK and LL. That’s why WK and VK would beat Tyson, Ali or Foreman.

In your opinion LL vs VK was a one sided fight? You cannot be serious!

Posted August 18, 2013 12:30 pm 


Hrdknx

@czepukojc

I absolutley agree with you czepukojc. I am not an Ali fan and believe the man was a coward outside of the ring. The moron thought he would actually have to fight with a gun in Vietnam, moron. But the Ali who fought Cleveland Williams would have destroyed haye and pretty much 90% of all heavies ever. Esp David Haye. But he wasn’t the greatest. Anyone with a great left hook would have had a chance.

Posted August 18, 2013 12:08 pm 


thetruth101

Today’s Heavyweights vs Yesterdays Heavyweights reminds me of the Barber Scene in Coming to America. “The White Man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ass.” LOL Dream Fights, the what if’s that could be debated. Where has the American fighters gone? Today all the buzz comes from former Soviet blocked countries. We have Chris Arreola?! SMH . Good article to dream about since we have no Heavyweights to talk about.

Posted August 18, 2013 11:53 am 


It’s Me, Ernie

How long would their cruiserweight/nothing opponents have lasted with a prime Iron Mike? Hell even The Jinx would have beaten mot of the opponents that supposedly made the Klits into greats, LMAO…

Posted August 18, 2013 11:42 am 


Unbiased Dane

Its really tiring to here the same nonsense from americans who cant deal with todays boxing where non american boxers dominate the hw division. Real boxing fans dont care about nationality, and they dont need to convince them self and everyone else that because their fighters dont dominate the sport like they used to, there has to be something wrong with the sport.

Posted August 18, 2013 11:37 am 


§

@ rod
who is this grеаt chаmps?

Pulеv-еuro bеlt/Povеtkin Wва-jokе аnd Науе tink onlу for monеу! Аnd lеgеnds Vitаli&Wlаd….

Posted August 18, 2013 11:26 am 


Unbiased Dane

PEEJ could beat Wlad. :-D Jesus what an idiot.

Posted August 18, 2013 11:22 am 


Hidalgo

God, I get tired of these sludge-dredging articles.

Posted August 18, 2013 10:18 am 


PEEJ

Ken Norton would of beat Wlad.
Forman would of KOd Vitali and Wlad
Holyfield would of KO Wlad
Bowe would of KOd Wlad but last against Vitali
Holmes would of KOd Wlad and out pointed Vitali
A focuses Moorer could of split fights with Wlad but would of got killed against Vitali
Ali had to much foot moved for both Klitchkos
I am not menting anybody else that is not Klitchko because they could not of handled the fighters of then.

Posted August 18, 2013 9:51 am 


rod

Todays heavies hold their own. Maybe in the early 90s their were some big names. The division from 2002 to 2010 was kind of asleep but 2012-2013 we have some serious contenders and some great champs.

Posted August 18, 2013 9:25 am 


rod

Todays heavies hold their own. Manybe in the early 90s their were some big names. The division from 2002 to 2010 was kind of asleep but 2012-2013 we have some serious contenders and some great champs.

Posted August 18, 2013 9:25 am 


Anonymous

Interesting article. there are also some guys just outside of the top ten that would have competed with these guys. Throw in Tommy Morrison and Bert Cooper two good tough yet flawed heavies who always had exciting fights and gave fans their moneys worth. I think Thompson vs Tucker could go either way as Thompson I would say is the more focused fighter. Tucker had a lot of distractions outside the ring. How I wish we still had the heavies of yesteryear.

Posted August 18, 2013 9:17 am 


Sam

Haye would easily beat Ali

Posted August 18, 2013 7:07 am 


AssyrianGod

Agree with Squared Circle re Holmes being the only fighter from past eras who could compete today. Ali, Foreman, Norton, Frazier, Liston, Patterson, Marciano, Louis, Dempsey = NO CHANCE! Vitali, Wlad and Lewis are/were all too big, too strong, too skilled..Its not JUST size, but size combined with skill, power, mobility, conditioning and a good boxing brain.

Posted August 18, 2013 6:22 am 


AssyrianGod

@Beradog123 – Yes but those Athltics world records were set by DRUG CHEATS. Marita Koch, Flo-Jo, Jarmila Kratochvilova..all Steroid junkies..in fact Kratochvilova would probably have beaten Marvin Hagler had they fought, she was certainly better muscled and faster!

Posted August 18, 2013 6:17 am 


AssyrianGod

Wladimir Klitschko beats Holyfield by UD

Vitali Klitschko, KO’s Bowe..even an old Vitali has too much for chicken bowe
Alexander Povetkin beats Foreman by UD, Foreman too slow
David Haye destroys the old version of Holmes in 3 or 4 rounds
Kubrat Pulev stops Ruddock late on
Tomasz Adamek DRAWS with Witherspoon, a younger Witherspoon would beat him easy though
Michael Moorer beats Ruslan Chagaev by late stoppage
Lennox Lewis destroys Robert Helenius easily in a couple of rounds
Tyson Fury UD’s Mercer, too big and mobile, too strong IF he boxes rather than brawls
Tony Tucker UD’s Tony Thompson – Tucker was still top level in 92
Francesco Damiani, Split Decision over Bermane Stiverne

So I have it 5 – 4 with one draw for 2013 over 1992.

Posted August 18, 2013 6:07 am 


Doc

@Joe – Thamks Joe. Finally someone who talks sense. “Skills pay the bills”, and unfortunately very few HWs have skills these days. The old school trainers are all gone.

Posted August 18, 2013 5:34 am 


Lenin

The Lewis I talked about in the other posting is Carl Lewis, of course, vs. Usain Bolt.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:54 am 


Joe

What is hight? When Chisaro Del Boy beat Helenius (although was denied victory) he was not tall. And, how tall and skilled was Lamon Brewster when he knocked out Wlad? Why did Wlad wait till Lamon was done to bring him to Germany? How about Corrie Sanders, Ross Purity, Chris Bird, Lennox Lewis’s (Pizza Face Battle). Before the fight was stopped, it became abviously a onesided fight that put the health of a boxer at risk. And that was a fat Lewis! How about Mike Tyson in his prime, do you really agree that Wlad could stand half of the fight with the Iron Mike of the 80? Any version of Vitali can’t beat a prime Foreman, Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Tyson and the list seems not to be exhaustive. These are the same fans that believed Arthur Abrahm was going to make a name in America by smashing Andre Derill, Andre Ward and the Cobra until themselves witnessed that Arthur was not only exposed but has never had class.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:53 am 


Lenin

Okay, with the exception of Lennox Lewis who developed into one of the greatest heavies of all time. That’s true.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:53 am 


Lenin

@ Beradog123

“Half of the athletics world records are from the 70′s and 80′s …”

No, they are not. Name those that you are talking about. They’re all gone, even Bob Beamon’s long jump record. Face it – athletics and boxing have changed. And so did PEDs, genetic doping, and so on. You’re wrong. The guys from the 80s and 90s wouldn’t survive in the ring vs. the Klitschkos, and Lewis would only see Bolt’s back in a race.

Posted August 18, 2013 4:51 am 


czepukojc

Hrdknx Ali is overrated.

Posted August 18, 2013 3:30 am 


Beradog123

Half of the athletics world records are from the 70′s and 80′s so to say the fighters today must be better because they are today’s fighters is dumb. Also the pool of talent back then was much greater as the best athletes generally became boxers and the sport was huge.
You must also assume that if they have a fight they are fighting under the same conditions. Either today or then so fitness,nutrition etc would be exactly the same. Why is that so hard to understand?
The difference is the height and weight of today vs the skill of the sweet science back then.
David beats Golliath every time.

Posted August 18, 2013 3:06 am 


Tark

Why do so many posters in here think I’m an idiot? I know all things boxing, I do I do I do!!!

Posted August 18, 2013 2:49 am 


Puncher007

Everyone talks about Wlads suspect chin,hmmmm… Does everyone know Lennox got lode by two bums ? Knocked out cold by one punch?.???? Suspect???? No???

Posted August 18, 2013 12:47 am 


Puncher007

Anonymous , you are a jealous idiot! Anyone trying to compare the heavyweights of today to yesterday is clearly ignorant! Lets break it down like this, the K bros are bigger, faster, smarter, more conditioned,there is no way any of the older eras would have had a chance! And y’all are just stupid if you think otherwise! Some other idiot said that Vitali lost to Lennox! Negatory people Lennox got lucky and cut Vitali on the most tender piece of skin on the human body! WOW! Big deal! He was losing on all scorecards! The doctor that stopped the fight shouldn’t have! There was a mandatory rematch and Lennox ran like a scared little rabbit! He’s not worthy of calling him a winner in that fight! He should’ve been a man and not a coward and made the fifty million offerd for that fight. He will always be considered a coward for the way he lied and said he would rematch Vitali! Ask Vitali who made Lennox retire. Ask Lennox………

Posted August 18, 2013 12:41 am 


Brick City

Tark is that a joke?????? Past heavies would walk through todays heavies with ease!!!!!!

Posted August 18, 2013 12:40 am 


Tark

Remember, I’m the same idiot who said Gatti was no good.

Posted August 17, 2013 11:23 pm 


PEEJ

Ali would of KOd Haye. Ali would of been quick enough to catch him also. Ali’s chin would if definitely outlasted Haye. Haye wouldn’t of been able to circle Ali like he did Wlad and Valuev. Really Hayes run at heavy isn’t all that great.

Posted August 17, 2013 11:22 pm 


Rem

I have to agree with Tark also i think Haye would beat those greats. His athleticism, skill, power and defense would be to much for any of those atgs. ,

Posted August 17, 2013 11:19 pm 


Turbo-Hamster

hrdknx – au contraire. TARK is 700 years old.

Google “Family Guy Herbert”.

That is EXACTLY what TARK looks like, he was the inspiration for Herbert.

Posted August 17, 2013 9:56 pm 


TARK

Haye would destroy Ali… Haye can box better.. Haye can defend much better.. Haye can punch 3 times harder.

Ali was a sitting duck for about anything a skilled boxer threw… Especially the left hook and jab.

Posted August 17, 2013 8:53 pm 


TARK

With what??? What did Afredo Evangelista bring to the table for instance?

Posted August 17, 2013 8:49 pm 


JOEY

ALL PAPER CHAMPS.

Posted August 17, 2013 7:50 pm 


Rem

I agree with Lion King the super hws of today would beat all the old greats 8 out of 10 times. Lewis and the K bros have to much skill and athleticism to go with their size. I only give the old hws a 2 out of 10 chance due to Lewis and Wlads suspect chins.

Posted August 17, 2013 7:44 pm 


that dude

do one from 40 years ago and it would be a dope list

Posted August 17, 2013 7:25 pm 


Turbo-Hamster

Vitlai would r@pe that coward Bowe. R2pe him for breakfast.

with a mug of coffee

Posted August 17, 2013 6:39 pm 


NIKITA

It was just mainly an American thing back then, now it’s more of a truly world class sport. Today’s heavies are more numerous and bigger than 20-30 years ago.

Posted August 17, 2013 6:21 pm 


tea

not only holy would win , he would knock glass chin into next year. wlad cant take those punches like foreman, bowe, Tyson, moorer, mercer, holmes. holyfield was a skill combo boxer puncher. holyfield by tko.

Posted August 17, 2013 5:53 pm 


Paul

Great article, but I think Fury would be to big for Mercer. Prime Bowe vs an aging Vitali would have been a great war. I think Povetkin would have had a big chance of out boxing the 1992 version of Foreman. Given Haye’s low punch volume and lunging style he would have had a lot of trouble with any version of Holmes.

Posted August 17, 2013 5:45 pm 


Gus

Witherspoon destroys Adamek and Holyfield beats Klit up

Posted August 17, 2013 5:40 pm 


knowall

Im sorry as i didnt spell check that last point. Fat fingers and all that

Posted August 17, 2013 5:32 pm 


knowall

The fact is we dont no who would win if we are all honest. As with every sport boxong moves forward with training preperation with media with tv the list xan go on. We have to respect both list and there would be some mouth watering fights. To come and say either was better would be an inaccurate claim.

Posted August 17, 2013 5:30 pm 


Alonzo

Wlad would say “I’ma feastin’ on the Easton!” He’s basically a giant, Caucasian version of Holmes.

Posted August 17, 2013 4:52 pm 


ray gordon reid

square circle HIT THE road laddie

Posted August 17, 2013 4:48 pm 


Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. The Lion King of Beat Street)

In REALITY, the K-Bros and Lewis would’ve destroyed ALL HWs from 20-40 years ago.

These modern Super HW ATGs are simply too big, too tall, too long, too strong and have too much POWER for the much smaller, weaker HWs of 20-40 years ago.

A prime Holmes probably would’ve been their stiffest competition, but even he would’ve been beaten down by these Giants. At just 6’3″ and 215lbs, he would’ve looked like a midget in the ring and surely would’ve been overpowered and outgunned vs. the K-Bros and Lewis.

Remember how small, timid and helpless Haye looked like in the ring vs. King Wlad??? Prime Holmes and Ali, being almost exactly the same size as Haye, wouldn’t have looked all that much better.

Real talk.

Posted August 17, 2013 4:16 pm 


Alonzo

Morrison would KO Povo! Even an old Holmes would beat Haye

Posted August 17, 2013 3:53 pm 


Adrian

Holmes would destroy Haye !!!

Posted August 17, 2013 3:40 pm 


Jim

Bowe would not beat Vitali if you gave him a baseball bat!! This writer has to be on medication to come up with that one!!! WOW!!

Posted August 17, 2013 3:37 pm 


puncher007

You are a real idiot even mentioning the great vitali and the worthless bum Bowe in the same sentance!! Golata beat this guy!! (was whooping him). Wladimer not stopping a Holeyfield??? Much more power, smarter, tougher, more than 50 koes you ding dong!!!!

Posted August 17, 2013 3:30 pm 


BRUCE

COMPARING THE KLITS TO ALI HOMES AND THE LEGENDS BEFORE THEM IS BEYOND A JOKE

Posted August 17, 2013 3:11 pm 


Junior

Holyfield,Tyson, Ali and Holmes would beat the Klits

Posted August 17, 2013 2:47 pm 


JOEY

HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING HAS BEEN A JOKE FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

Posted August 17, 2013 2:41 pm 


ray gordon reid

IUSED TO READ RING MAgazine

Posted August 17, 2013 2:39 pm 


Hosteen

No Wlad??? Also surprised that Slater didn’t list his favorite – Wilder – in the top 2 or 3

Posted August 17, 2013 2:37 pm 


ray gordon reid

VITALI WALD HOLMES

Posted August 17, 2013 2:36 pm 


Hosteen

How did I know that this was a Slater article after reading just the TOP line of the headline?

Posted August 17, 2013 2:32 pm 


rod

Tucker vs Thompson. These two really remind me of each other. I think Tucker would take Thompson. One has to admit todays heavys hold their own. Wlad would UD Holyfield. Vitali vs Bowe 50/50. I think Haye with his combination of speed and power would trouble Holmes. Great matchups.

Posted August 17, 2013 2:03 pm 


Lenin

Guys, really, it’s getting old. No, they could not. That would be like Carl Lewis vs. Usain Bolt. Both were the fastest in their age, but even prime vs. prime Bolt would be already taking a shower when Lewis crosses the finishing line. And some of those boxers would have needed ladders to actually reach the chin of the modern behemoths. So, again, no. They were the greatest back in their days, but times have changed, and the athletes have changed. Modern heavies have to be 6.3 or bigger. Only Lewis would of course be a challenge, but all the others not really. The K Bros would wear them down.

Posted August 17, 2013 2:01 pm 


Prof Konje

The article would have been more interesing if fighters were compared in their prime. Holmes in his prime would be unbeatable by anyone today. But as it is written, I do agree with some mythical bouts. What made me laugh is when Slater got to Foreman. He simply said, “forget it” and I agree.

Posted August 17, 2013 1:52 pm 


TARK

The heavyweights of tody would overwhelm the heavyweights of 21 years ago… You paged threw years of rankings and conveniently left Wladimir Klitschko out of your story.. Fury would easily out-box the much smaller and slower Mercer for instance.. Mercer would never get started. He couldn’t even handle an aged Holmes — but an old Mercer never had a chance vs Wladimir.

Posted August 17, 2013 1:43 pm 


Brazilian Boxing Fan

Great article, Mr. Slater.

Posted August 17, 2013 1:36 pm 


KUR

I admire your imagination and buls.hit generation skills

Posted August 17, 2013 1:24 pm 



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The Top Heavyweights Of 21 Years Ago Vs. Today’s Top-10: Who Wins?









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