Ivanov I’ve been in Boxing all my life you idiotic delusional fool.
You can’t even write. You certainly can’t read and comprehend. Go back to the 5th grade you moronic laggard.Posted September 3, 2013 1:07 am
tark, you’ve been busted as a frustrated naysayer/lier with NO boxing experience. Your fragmentary and superficial “knowledge” seems to be entirely Internet-acquired. Boxing is not a project you can start and finish as an Internet training course. Don’t bother trying to talk the talk, no one takes you seriously. Make one hundred negative comments now.Posted September 2, 2013 10:23 am
Ivanov.., He’s telling you you’re full of it because you write nonsense with a pretentiousness and self-consciousness that marks you as a rank amateur.
Who are these trainers telling Mayweather his chin is too high or retraction speed adds to the impact of a blow??? … Name them. BTW Hamster, rotation can add to the force of a blow—but rotation is not retraction.
Because I’ve trained hundreds of boxers I spotted Ivanov as the worst rank novice who ever sat behind a keyboard.
Now Hamster.., I am not an historian. I’m a technical guy who knows styles and boxing science. I rely on others giving me historical facts just like you do. If a guy filed a protest, used a cream, or was drugged in a fight, that’s info I got from VK’s manager, Steward, or others. There’s always the possibility the information is wrong.
But I’m not wrong about LL fouling VK.
The video record of LL’s illegal head use and holding and hitting during the 3rd round is there. The massive cuts were opened with the edge and inside of LL’s glove, which are illegal striking surfaces. I never said a punch didn’t cause the initial cut—but an examination of the video record shows this “punch” was an illegal thumb strike with the right thumb. The LL-VK fight should have gone to the scorecards for these reasons.
It is not in dispute who was ahead on all scorecards.Posted September 2, 2013 10:08 am
Turbohamster: When you disagree with stuff (retraction) that is taught by most decent coaches all over the world, at least show some grounds. You don’t have to agree, different things could work for you or you may have your own view.. I post with my real name and wouldn’t write stuff unconfirmed by my own experience. You don’t have to like it or accept it but bear in mind that one day in the gym is worth more than reading thousand pages of studies. When you just throw an baseless insult at s.o.’s work you are no different than tark. I bet none of you two has ever seen the inside of a boxing ring.Posted September 1, 2013 10:53 am
Ivanov.., I never claimed to be a political analyst or friend of Obama. You’re throwing goofy stuff out there.Posted September 1, 2013 3:31 am
Look Hamster.., I’m not a historian. I’m a technical expert, trainer, and consultant. I rely on what VK’s trainer said, Emmanuel Steward said, and other people say on stories about creams, drugging, protest filings, or whatever… I can get those things wrong.
I’m not going to get the technical things wrong. I can tell you how to exploit a fighter’s weaknesses. I know when a novice like Ivanov is full of crap. Those are things I get right.
You’re right, rotation adds force but retraction doesn’t… But retraction is not rotation.Posted September 1, 2013 3:29 am
@TARK “You just described yourself perfectly”…….oh wow I just got burned with the “I know you are you said you are but what am I” defence from the TARKSTER there.
I actually agree with you on the writer of this article, he talks a lot of s.h.1te – Mayweather chin being high, and retracting a punch causing more damage. There’s truth to the idea that rotational force is more effective in causing concussion -there’s been research into that, but that isn`t information that you would particularly be able to build into a strategy.
The reason I`ve just come to distrust everything you say is that you make statements with authrority on things that either aren`t true, or are inconclusive – Vitali having a st3r0id cream (rather than injection) to treat an injury, Scott not protesting the loss, the Lewis punch in round 3 not starting the cut, Wlad was DEFINITELY drugged vs Brewster (this is a guy who’s drug screen came back negative, and who has form for gassing).
You just aren`t trustworthy.Posted August 31, 2013 7:25 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Nice work Ivanov, welcome to the Tark is an idiot group…Posted August 31, 2013 4:53 pm
Tark, I appreciate the fact you have read and remembered my previous article on the subject. Good for you, everyone can see Floyd holds the chin up and he brings it even higher up and to the right when he throws a long “arm” left hook. Mosley and Judah capitalized on it but could not finish the job. If you think I want Floyd to lose, you are making a wrong guess. I just want a good fight. I wouldn’t mind if Floyd nicks it because he upholds and validates the amateur style.Posted August 31, 2013 11:47 am
Ivanov.., Your condescending BS is something I see a hundred times a day from clueless freebee Internet writers blasting Obama and everyone else in a high position of power. They also go after sports champions.
If Floyd gets KO’d you’ll be in your glory—like millions of other self deluded “experts” who’ve been predicting Mayweather’s demise for 15 years.
After every Patterson loss… every Ali loss… every Holmes loss… every Tyson loss… every Lewis loss… every Klitschko loss… every Haye loss… the word “FRAUD” came out and haters everywhere were in their glory.
I don’t know what it is. Some people need other people to fail to justify their existence. Hatred is a way of life for millions of people around the globe. When the mighty fall the twitterverse lights up—and there’s unrestrained glee and rejoicing all over the planet.
Lebron James: “We can’t lose fellas. Every clown who couldn’t make his high school basketball team will dancing in the streets—and tweeting his ass off.”Posted August 31, 2013 10:14 am
Hamster.., You just described yourself perfectly.
If you had a deeper understanding of the game you might comprehend the points I’m making. I don’t EVER say things like, “Floyd Mayweather Jr holds his chin too high … and lifts it higher and to the right as he throws a left hook.” It takes an Ivanov to write baloney like that.
This is the kind of nonsense from writers who never beat anyone and never trained anyone, that makes me LMAO. Everyone is an instant expert in this sport—but Ivanov is the most spaced out example I’ve ever seen.Posted August 31, 2013 10:10 am
Ivan, you need to understand that this is TARKs identity. He cannot accept the possibility that he isn`t dishing out wisdom, even when it is patently clear he is completely misunderstanding what people are saying. Deliberately? I don`t know – maybe he is just a hairy old troll, or maybe he is mental. If you see it is sunny and say “It`s a nice day outside”, TARK will reply “No Ice cream is nice, the day is sunny, and it would be better if it was 21 degrees”. He`s just contrary for the sake of it. He has no understanding of nuance or context. In fact he is probably autistic.Posted August 31, 2013 5:56 am
Tark: Bringing wrecking balls and karate specialist into a boxing argument shows desperation and unwillingness to face reality. It’s useless to reason with you, after you are out of arguments you’ll attack my grammar perhaps. You are hopelessly swamped into stubborn confusion and self-inflicted delusions. I have no problem discussing boxing issues but you seem infuriated by any sensible point and desperately try to nullify it. tell me again how amateur “square up” and how Alvarez and Floyd punch in the same way through the target. You are riddled by your own refusal to face reality and accept that some people just know more than you ever you will. Try the real thing some time, it’s never too late to try.Posted August 31, 2013 2:39 am
Tark, you have too much theories about simple practical things. At first I thought you are addicted to arguing, now I see you are very confused. Try real boxing for a change against an opponent in your local gym, even a heavy bag would do. Try to apply your theories and practice could clear the fog they’ve created in your head. No pseudo-science experiments and wrecking ball videos could substitute one straight shot at the wall pad. Try pushing through it and break it like a wrecking ball. The only you’ll break is your hand and I’m giving you credit here for being able to punch at all. Try pushing through a speed bag.Posted August 31, 2013 1:07 am
Hmmmm.. You read all these predictions on these boards, and man, the Vegas odds makers must have it all wrong!! 2 to 1 for Mayweather, when it’s about 40 to 1 on here?? What do y all experts know that they dont?Posted August 31, 2013 12:07 am
Watching TARK and Ivanov argue is like seeing two guys jerking off on a biscuit then arguing about who gets to eat it.Posted August 30, 2013 11:14 pm
Floyd has to get old over night to lose. sadly, it’s that simple.Posted August 30, 2013 10:53 pm
the primary factors that favor a 36-year-old Mayweather are his poise, ring-smarts, and experience. all of which have repeatedly combined to effectively respond to even the most bizarre ring occurences (e.g., Ortiz’s attempted sexual assault of “pretty boy”). those are the factors that make this bout premature for Canelo. i calculate that he’s still got a 4-1 shot to defeat Mayweather but it will depend on age and/or weight-related slippage on Mayweather’s part. a Canelo win wouldn’t be a huge upset, because he is that good, but Mayweather is an active ring-great and Canelo is about two more years of undefeated campaigning before being able to face the likes of Mayweather on a level playing-field.Posted August 30, 2013 7:42 pm
Ivanov says.., “With straight shots you retract quickly for impact even if this sounds counter-intuitive.”
It’s not counterintuitive—it’s dumb… There is no way you can retract fast enough to create a vacuum or other atmospheric phenomenon that will lend to the impact or damage of a blow.
A straight punch is retracted rapidly for one reason—so you don’t get counterpunched… A “lazy” jab is telegraphed and left out long enough for a reply to nail you.Posted August 30, 2013 6:53 pm
Ernie.. You’re the most clueless idiot ever kerploshed out of some cow’s butt.Posted August 30, 2013 6:53 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Once again the Tard proves he has no clue…Posted August 30, 2013 6:29 pm
Ivanov.., “It’s the intangibles that get very stale at 32-34 years of age.”
That’s is just not true… Intangibles are work ethic, experience, knowledge, courage, wisdom, coaching, character, and all the values you follow to keep yourself in peak mental and physical condition, keep progressing in one aspect or another, and stay at the top of your game overall.
All those qualities can get better as long as you don’t get bored and disgusted with the training grind … Perseverance is another intangible.Posted August 30, 2013 6:12 pm
Mayweather has been caught flush in all his recent fights (he has taken more clean shots in 3 fights than I have seen him take in 7_8 fights before). He will get caught flush by alvarez. It’s just a case of whether he can handle it. Win, lose or draw I think we will see money hit the deck in this one. I honestly think if alvarez doesnt let the event get to him he will stop mayweather in shocking style. We’ve seen pac get sparked. Lammont get destoyed. Cleverley, macklin (even if that was some what expected), mares. It can happen and I just think its time for the upsets at the moment.Posted August 30, 2013 5:54 pm
Ivanov.., You say, “A straight shot that travels through the target is counterproductive. Even if it creates a certain initial ‘ring”, the more it stays on the target, the more it stifles the “ring” it created.”
That is utter nonsense..,
The more a straight shot travels through the target the harder the impact, the harder the brain will smash against the skull, the more empathic, dramatic, and cataclysmic the resulting KO. Stifling the ring is something someone made up out of the blue—like a lot of theories invented by various martial arts schools of thought that have been discarded.
I’ve argued with karate sensei’s about this—and showed them a tape of a wrecking ball being swung into a building. The progress of the ball is stopped by the building—but the bigger the swing, the faster the ball travels, the greater the impact, and the more of the building the ball destroys. There is no retraction or snap at all. The same reason Canelo can punch harder than Floyd or Trout. They’re very fast and have a lot of snap on their shots. Canelo is stronger and has a lot more power.
You don’t need a ringing sound in the ears or whatever nonsense you’re talking about. You need concussion. That is done with force and impact. The straight right hand that smashes farther into the chin and face will produce the most compelling KO. Pac got hit with a straight shot that wasn’t retracted. The best view is from the right side of JMM and left of Pac’s face.
If you’re debating just to be correct you’re lost. If you’re trying to learn you will attempt to grasp my points and measure them against what you believe.Posted August 30, 2013 5:50 pm
Gonzo the Dragonborn
You tell ‘im Brother Ernie.Posted August 30, 2013 5:26 pm
Gonzo the Dragonborn
I can’t respect fighters who are terrified of pain. I just wasn’t raised that way.Posted August 30, 2013 5:24 pm
Tangible-intangible. Range is tangible, timing – intangible. Reflexes – intangible, reaction times – tangible, punch power – tangible, punch resistance/chin – intangible. Tangibles outlive the intangibles in a boxer’s career. It’s the intangibles that get very stale at 32-34 years of age. Power stays until you are 55 or so.Posted August 30, 2013 4:25 pm
Tark: You are correct that hooks and even looping crosses travel through the target and sweep or continue to move after they hit the chin for example. That’s why most KOs are the result of hooks and the left hook alone (lead hand hook) has caused more carnage than any other punch. The head spin created by such punches creates the “lights out” effect.
Hidalgo…, “Case in point: Khan/Garcia. Khan swinging like a madman to save himself.” Therefore you claim he was defending.
That is not defense. That’s desperation. Khan also sprinted away from Garcia to save himself. That is also desperation NOT defense. It’s ridiculous for a championship caliber boxer to resort to such sub-novice devices to try to keep from being blasted out. Won’t work, and no competent trainer is going to call that a boxing defense.
Vince Lombardi.. “There a old saying that the best defense is a good offense.. That’s a LIE!!! The best defense is a great DEFENSE.
If you don’t have a defense you can get very desperate and try anything.Posted August 30, 2013 3:38 pm
@Ivanov.., Both Floyd and Canelo punch through the target and retract their jabs and straight rights in much the same way. The retraction speed does nothing to enhance the power of a punch. That belief is a myth.
A left hook that connects and sweeps throught the target, such has the KO punch Sergio Martinez landed on Paul Williams is more deadly than a jab or straight power shot that is immediatly retracted. The damage was done when Marquez connected with his right and drove it several inches into Pacquiao’s face. Retraction doesn’t add anything. Pac is already out … and is going to drop like a cold slab of meat.
You retract quickly so you don’t get countered, not to add power.Posted August 30, 2013 3:23 pm
Hidalgo.., Timing and reflexes are innate talents you can physically observe, such as you can observe an athlete’s speed and power as he plays.
Acquired attributes like knowledge, wisdom, confidence, and character are qualities that are not openly visible to the observer—therefore intangible.Posted August 30, 2013 3:09 pm
Pragmatic: Pragmatic points with a lot of common sense. That’s not even the worst case scenario. It’s not like I hoped for the best in the article that’s why I did not outline an expected scenario. I still think Saul has a very good chance of performing well and that’s not even going to be an upset. Some expect Floyd to grow old during the fight but that won’t happen. He already did at around 33-34. Guerrero fought an old boxer, very technical and superior in his skills but worm out. Not by punishment, although he has had his share of that but by pushing his body beyond the limit too many times. Boxing does that to everyone, it is an unnatural ordeal just by the physical taxation it imposes. Floyd is up for grabs now and it has very little to do with whether Alvarez is special or not.Posted August 30, 2013 2:26 pm
Lopsided ud for Mayweather coming up. PBF will use movement to keep Canelo at bay, pot shotting at will after the 4th or 5th round. Canelo will be looking to unload all night and just wont be able to…he doesn’t have the tools or the stamina to effectively pressure Floyd. People will be heading for their cars around round 9 when they finally realize what most true observers of the sport already know….Canelo doesn’t have a chance. Save your money, don’t buy this fight. If you must see it, make a night of it and catch it at your local pub. Oh yeah watch for the patented Mayweather shoulder to the gut bouncing off the ropes move…he’s mastered that one for sure, some of the best body work he does.Posted August 30, 2013 2:03 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Agree with a check-hook being a hybrid move/tactic since it entails getting out of the rushing opponent’s way and giving them a little something something to take with them…Posted August 30, 2013 11:48 am
Canelo is a bar room brawler, perfect toughman competition c level fighter. Youth and strength have carried canelo this far but he will be outclassed by mayweather. The teacher has come to teach canelo a lesson that he is not as good as people make him to be. This fight will not even be close, landslide victory by mayweather with the crowd getting aroused everytime he unloads a haymaker even if it hits air or arms or whatever. Canelo is carbon copy of arthur abraham only he doesn’t punch as hard and has worse stamina. The smart bet is on mayweather all the way. Canelo has a chance, a small one, a miniscule chance. It will show early after round 3 it will be pretty obvious canelo just walked into a mine field without a detector, boom.Posted August 30, 2013 10:42 am
Floyd is too seasoned for Canelo at this point. All this science stuff is moot when the bell rings. Floyd is on another level. Still waiting for him to get old and slow down. I though I saw it against Cotto but then he out classed Guerrero and looked as fast as ever. The weight will kill Canelo in the end, Canelo has a 1-5 round window to KO Floyd, after that it’s all Floyd. I want to see Mayweather vs Broner.Posted August 30, 2013 10:40 am
Many bizarre assertions made by the author and some of the posters. The ideas that the shoulder roll is somehow outdated, speed is not a major factor in a right hand lead, olympic boxers square up more, or that Mayweather’s style is dependent on youth, are all laughable.
This is going to look like De La Hoya Mayweather 2.Posted August 30, 2013 9:54 am
Tark, when a valid is point is made I’ll discuss it. For now I’ll just take issue with some of the rejections of valid points. If timing and reflexes are not intangibles, nothing is. Floyd’s style/skills are based on speed, timing and reflexes and these things are the first to go. “Flushed” is label used by boxers for boxers, that’s what Haye called Vitali when he challenged him. You talk about skills, are skills unrelated to style, timing, speed, etc.? Arguing with an ex-amateur like me about Olympic/amateur stances could make you look completely out of you element. And Alvarez does punch through the target while Floyd retracts much sooner. This has to do with habit, muscle memory, style/skill and this not an accident when it happens. That’s how you are supposed to deliver straight arm punches, they have more impact this way.Posted August 30, 2013 3:08 am
Tark, I’m gonna side with Ivanov a little here.
The check hook works for offense and defense. Just like a pass interception works for defense and offense. You call a check hook “part of an offense” but I see it as more of a hybrid maneuver. A check hook can be a very effective defensive weapon against very aggressive, unorthodox, and/or wild fighter. If properly and adeptly executed. A check hook “checks” (breaks or disrupts) the aggressor’s forward movement. It allows the fighter throwing the punch to evade his opponent. To throw him off balance. To score with a punch while doing all these things. A check hook uses the aggressor’s own momentum against him (And those Shaolin monks thought they knew it all).
A jab can also be a defensive weapon. If you’re backing up but throwing jabs, you’re throwing defensive jabs. You’re throwing them to keep the other guy off of you. You might need a lot of those against an Antonio Margarito or Alfredo Angulo, for instance.
Amir Khan uses every punch in the book to defend himself when he has to defend himself. The guy hardly clinches. He doesn’t know how to tie his man up. So he uses punches for offense and defense. Case in point: Khan/Garcia. Khan swinging like a madman to save himself.
As for your comments about the “intangibles” that Ivanov talked about–they are intangibles. You can see or perceive them but you can’t touch them, you can’t feel them. So, they are intangible. Timing, peripheral awareness, hand-to-eye response, and peripheral space awareness can also be “natural” or innate abilities and talents. Example: Basketball player Larry Bird was well known for his peripheral vision and peripheral awareness.Posted August 30, 2013 3:02 am
Floyd and Canelo both execute the right lead with great timing and deception… It’s not an audacious punch… A great boxer can lead with a jab, a hook, a straight power shot, even an uppercut — depending on what the opponent is looking for, how gassed or hurt he is, and how effectively you feint him out of his trunks before you bash him one.Posted August 30, 2013 1:56 am
A jab is a weapon… Cotto floored Clottey with a perfectly timed one.
A jab can smash your nose.. knock you down.. even KO you.
Power punches are more dangerous but every punch is a weapon.Posted August 30, 2013 1:38 am
Indeed, very good, we do concur,Posted August 30, 2013 1:02 am
This 1-2 inches through the target stuff seems a misplaced argument too.
Floyd is thinking about his exit strategy as he throws a punch.
The very nature of the right hand lead, which is his signature, is audacious. It`s putting your hand in the lions mouth and pulling it out again before he reacts. It isn`t something you load up on until a guy is in trouble, like the last round vs Corrales. That doesn`t mean he doesn`t follow through on a right hand when the time is right.
Canelo doesn`t throw the same punch in the same way.
It`s apples and opranges.Posted August 30, 2013 12:20 am
A jab isn`t a weapon a Desert Eagle .50 is.
Perhaps a fist can be considered a weapon, but the jab is the technique by which you use that hand. As shooting is the technique by which you use the gun.
That is if you want to be really really pedantic.Posted August 30, 2013 12:10 am
Mayweather get’s stopped round 1-4, bye.Posted August 29, 2013 11:34 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Aw shut yer trap pillow-biter…Posted August 29, 2013 11:20 pm
The 2 dumbest pieces of dog crap ever to exist. Idiot Ernie and Goofy GonzPosted August 29, 2013 11:17 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
LMAO, Brother Gonzo layin it out for the fool…Posted August 29, 2013 10:59 pm
@Herron.., What theory am I shoving down somebody’s throat???
I’m not talking about theory. “Flushed” is not a widely accepted functionality level… “Timing and reflexes” are not intangibles… Floyd’s style is not dependent on youth—it’s dependent on skill… The check hook is not a defense… Same as when you’re slipping and countering, you’re transitioning from defense to offense… A physical asset such as speed is not a weapon… A left hook is a weapon… Floyd is not a showboat… Floyd punches through the target… Those are all basic things that boxing experts would agree on… Nothing argumentative or pedantic about them… No wild eyed theories and weird theses from a ideologue wing-nut college professor.
All these are fundamental truths and facts… I can’t help it if your powers of comprehension are severely limitedPosted August 29, 2013 9:51 pm
De Lima I:
“Canelo is not a bum.
SA is mentally strong, very confident and he’s hungry to be the best.
Great Post, De Lima!!Posted August 29, 2013 8:33 pm
TARK sounds like one of those looney college professors who try to shove their theories down students throats, claiming that their subjective and relative beliefs is absolute knowledge…LOL!!
The sweet science is a subjective art form, brother.
The truth is not relative…it’s absolute.
Very little about boxing is absolute.Posted August 29, 2013 8:29 pm
Tark my friend, a jab is a weapon yes, but without speed, it’s nothing but an average jab. Add speed to the jab, and it makes all the difference in the world. Boxers would prefer having hand speed more than anything else. Speed kills.Posted August 29, 2013 7:25 pm
Why make the statement if not arguing, when my comparison was with Mayweather and Hopkins both having great timing. You saying that Hopkins is better than both. Which in my opinion isn’t fact, why I might add that it isn’t fact. They never fought so there is absolutly no way to tell, just speculation.Posted August 29, 2013 6:42 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Hey Tard, shaddup for once, would ya?Posted August 29, 2013 6:27 pm
TARK, read your first post on this article. The last time Ivanov wrote a piece on the same subject you were angry as a bee. You’re doing it all over again. I’m saying you’re turning into a bitter Boxtradamus.Posted August 29, 2013 6:20 pm
Urone2, my comment on B-Hop has nothing whatsoever to do with arguing. It was a cold fact. A statement. How is that arguing?Posted August 29, 2013 6:16 pm
You say Tark is arguing just to argue. My point was that with Hopkins aging and his speed leaving he still maintained his timing to stay competitive and Floyd has to ability to do the same. It seem that you are arguing just to argue.Posted August 29, 2013 6:12 pm
Haimat.., I don’t disagree for the sake of disagreement… That’s BS. I let a lot of stuff go that isn’t too bad. But when I see stuff that is so bad it begs to be corrected, that’s what I do.
That’s what the site is for dummy. An exchange of knowledge and ideas about Boxing. When there’s a lot of BS from one unknowledgeable source, and you have the knowledge, you should correct it.
What YOU are doing is disagreeing for its own sake.Posted August 29, 2013 6:06 pm
Bernard Hopkins said.., “The best fighter of the last generation… of MY generation… is Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Ask Vivek and he’ll confirm Hopkins said that in an interview.Posted August 29, 2013 5:55 pm
Hecdog.., Speed is an asset… It’s not a weapon. don’t say foolish things. You use speed offensively and defensively. You use it when you’re feinting, ducking, slipping, stepping, grabbing, whatever.. Not a weapon.. A jab is a weapon.Posted August 29, 2013 5:51 pm
Tark, “speed is not a weapon” ?? You’re dead wrong. Speed gives any fighter a huge advantage. Floyd, R Jones, Ali, SR Leonard, SR Robinson and many, many great fighters would not have been those same fighters had they not had speed.Posted August 29, 2013 5:31 pm
Bernard Hopkins is a better fighter than both these guys. The Bernard of ten, fifteen years ago would beat both with ease. He knew all the tricks. Great footwork. Vicious, extremely smart fighter.Posted August 29, 2013 5:30 pm
One name Benard HopkinsPosted August 29, 2013 5:25 pm
Sure Tark, my point is you’re disagreeing for the sake of it. You’re saying obvious things which doesn’t contradict anything of worth. Depending on who you’re debating you’ll say different things.
Your first post is ridiculous. “Reality: ” If that’s not Boxtradamus then what is? :)Posted August 29, 2013 5:24 pm
And no… Canelo simply punches harder.. He doesn’t commit more strength and effort to his punches.. He paces himself well, he throws with more power because he’s bigger and stronger.. He never tired to take Trout out, even when he had him hurt.. He fought within himself and stuck with the game plan. Lopez was toast so he took him out. But so would Floyd in that situation.
Floyd went after Mosely in the 3rd round and tried to take him out.. At times he tried to hurt Cotto so he could get him out.. He’s pretty aware that he doesn’t flatten people, but if he hurts somebody he’ll go get them … just like Canelo.Posted August 29, 2013 5:18 pm
Haimat.., You don’t know what the Hell you’re talking about.. Floyd and Canelo are both boxers.. They both want to win the round first and look for the KO 2nd. Canelo does not look for the KO. He’ll take it if it comes.
Canelo is NOT going to pass up any chance to score because he doesn’t have another 2 inches of distance or leverage. Floyd is not going to pass up the chance to hurt somebody by not punching through the target.
You sound like Boxtradamus.Posted August 29, 2013 5:11 pm
de Lima I.
Canelo is not a bum.
SA is mentally strong, very confident and he’s hungry to be the best.
Canelo is a BUM! go back and watch his fights, he gets hit waaay to easy and too much. If he is not getting hit, is because is fighting someone way smaller “little guys” than him, who may be afraid to throw. Mosley,lopez and even cinton landed easy on him. Canelo is a good Class C fighter.Posted August 29, 2013 4:58 pm
TARK you’re blind. Soon you’re the same as Boxtradamus.
Listen, those few extra inches, what the writer means is that Canelo commits more to his punches. Floyd does not hit the straight right hand with as much bad intentions as Canelo. It’s a choice he makes, wisely so, and it’s true. Why are you whining like a little girl?Posted August 29, 2013 4:56 pm
Hecdog.., “Canelo can make Floyd get old quickly”
No he can’t… Floyd is only 36 and never took a lot of punishment. You get old one day at a time. It doesn’t fall on you all at once like a boulder squashes your car in mountain country.
People said Ray Leonard got old overnight at 34… I say he met a faster fisted boxer with quicker feet in Norris… It could have happened to him when he was 23, like when Tyson met Douglas.Posted August 29, 2013 4:55 pm
Hecdog.., “Floyd’s number one weapon is speed.”
Wrong dawg… Speed is not a weapon. A right lead is. That’s Floyd’s number one weapon.Posted August 29, 2013 4:45 pm
Haimat.., I’m educating.. You’re whining
Saul is not looking to drive a punch and extra inch or 2 into the target farther than Floyd does you dumb bunny. They will both take the same shot at the same target and both have good range.
The shot that floored Trout proves my point… That was at the end of Saul’s range.Posted August 29, 2013 4:42 pm
Nice article! On paper, this is a terrific match up, now let’s see if both boxers live up to expectations. Floyd should be the favorite due to his extensive experience and athletic, defense first style. In Canelo, he will be fighting a young, strong, energetic boxing prodigy. Canelo has the tools to beat Floyd, but he still has the following questions to answer: Can he handle the pressure of a big fight? Can he take a punch? Will his stamina be a problem? Can he make adjustments? Can he cut off the ring? Will the 2 pound cut affect him? Floyd will fight his his normal counter punch, hold, hug and run style. He doesn’t like to get hit at all, so he’s in and out quickly. Once he knows he’s got faster hands than his opponent and finds his distance and his opponents punch timing, he begins to open up one punch at a time. He loves to use the jab to the body and left hook. He leans forward head first and waits for his opponent to throw the left so he can counter with the right. He’s always on his toes and ready to lean back or run. If he sees his opponent break, he begins walking him down and taking shots. Floyd’s number one weapon is speed. Canelo has to dictate the pace and style of the fight if he has any chance to win. He must land his own jab, use feints and off set Floyd’s timing. Once you off set Floyd’s timing, the battle is half over. Canelo has to have super stamina and must make Floyd fight a fast paced young man’s fight. Floyd is old in boxing terms, but no one has made him fight fro 12 rounds. Canelo has youth on his side, and with the pro Mexican crowd in attendance cheering him on, he should be able to bring it fro 12 rounds. If Canelo tires, it’s going to end shortly after. Castillo had the right blue print, Cotto had the right blue print and de La Hoya had the right blue print. Unfortunately, they were too old and past their prime. Canelo has youth, and if he can full fill his potential, he can make Floyd get old quickly. Floyd is the favorite and should be, but don’t be surprised at the upset. We may have a new champion and Floyd’s first loss on September 14th. Maybe, just maybe.Posted August 29, 2013 4:27 pm
Tark says “Olympians usually square up more and throw more” What? I watched all but a few of the fights in the last Olympics and the DON’T SQUARE UP more.
Tark says “Saul is not looking for an added inch or two. ” Of course he is. Stop whining.
Tark says “The check hook is part of an offense” Irrelevant as to the subject. The check left hook is very much a defensive shot. Why argue for the sake of arguing. Act you age.
“Floyd’s style is dependent on masterful skills he acquired over 30 years.” Sure Tark, more arguing for the sake of it. What’s your point? Don’t you agree that youthful speed and reflexes would make Floyd an even better fighter? Watch the GAtti fight my friend and think again.
Tark you’re obviously hating on this writer. Childish. Why don’t you give your 2 cents without the whining? I used to read your posts with interest. Now it’s mostly BS like this unfortunately :(Posted August 29, 2013 4:04 pm
I picked Floyd, Canelo has been asked to lose a couple extra pounds that judging by his last fight will affect his stamina. I think Canelo has 4 rounds to get it done, after that in my opinion Canelo will look like Cotto against Pacquioa. Weak and fighting to survive. I know everyone will say an old Mosley got to Mayweather and he did while Mayweather was standing in front of him trying to make his fights more exciting. Mark my words Mayweather will not stand in front of Canelo and Canelo will be dog tired by round 3 or 4 while trying to chase Mayweather down. This is my perdiction for this fight Mayweather by 12 round UD. Nothing against Canelo but I think he’s been staying in the 154 pound division to get the Money fight with Floyd and will move to Middle weight right after this fight.Posted August 29, 2013 4:00 pm
Tark – I agree with most of what you state here. I think Floyd does rely on a substantial amount of athleticism in his style though, but unlike a Roy Jones for example, he uses it to compliment his masterful technical skills, which is part of the reason he has remained undefeated even while aging. But he does rely on reflexes and speed to a great degree, and those things will fade in time leaving him much more vulnerable. of course we haven’t seen that yetPosted August 29, 2013 3:55 pm
I like this guy Ivanov (:Posted August 29, 2013 3:55 pm
Floyd has alot of styles not just shoulder roll. He adjusts depending on his cherry picked opponent.Posted August 29, 2013 3:45 pm
Ivanov says.., “The shoulder rol is a class act but it is not a totally reliable shield today … it is more showboating than a building block of Floyd’s defense.”
Reality: No defensive technique is a totally reliable shield… Floyd doesn’t showboat a whole lot. If a technique isn’t reliable he would scrap it.
Ivanov say.., “Floyd’s stance is more unconventional, it has an Olympic style element to it.”
Reality: Olympians usually square up more and throw more. They have only 3 rounds to grab a lead or overcome a lead. They know what the score is.
Ivanov says.., “Floyd retracts the hand as soon as a punch lands while Alvarez “pushes” an inch or two further.”
Reality: Floyd tries to punch with power and force through the target. Canelo does also—but floored Trout with a punch at the end of his range. Saul is not looking for an added inch or two. If he can land he’ll throw.
Ivanov says.., “Even the check hook is a defensive shot.”
Reality: The check hook is part of an offense. It’s one weapon in an arsenal. You try to time your opponent’s forward momentum with most of your punches.
Ivanov says.., “The difference between them is in the intangible qualities like timing, reflex, hand-to-eye response, peripheral space awareness.”
Reality: Those are all innate talents and abilities. Intangibles are things like cleverness, courage, wisdom, maturity, temperament, and work ethic.
Ivanov says.., “There are widely accepted functionality levels like sharp, declining, washed up, flushed, shot, etc.”
Reality: Washed up and shot are redundant. Flushed is not a widely accepted level of functionality.
Ivanov says.., “Floyd’s style is dependent on physical and intangible qualities associated with youth.”
Reality: This is not true at all… Floyd’s style is dependent on masterful skills he acquired over 30 years. Floyd made most of his money after he reached 30.Posted August 29, 2013 3:24 pm
I think Canelo will win this one.Posted August 29, 2013 2:36 pm
Its a gusty pick. I am not sure the intangibles support it, but I respect it and would not be surprised to see more pundits choosing the underdog as we get closer to fight night. However, there is a reason that Floyd is still better than a 2-1 favorite and until I see the man loose, I would not bet against him.Posted August 29, 2013 2:01 pm
ivan i;ve got caneloPosted August 29, 2013 1:51 pm