And, i do feel like a boxing genius. You on the other hand, can’t even form a coherent sentence lolPosted September 19, 2012 4:28 pm
FOR THE QUESTION WHY DOESNT CHAVEZ USE THE JAB,,CHAVEZ HAS A VERY GOOD JAB HE SNAPS IT OUT,,,BUT FOR SOME REASON HE IS HESITANT TO USE IT MORE.. MAY BE ITS A BRAVADO THING OR I DONT KNOW ITS NOT FREEDYS FAULT..Posted September 19, 2012 1:02 am
Why does Chavez Jnr not use his reach to out jab opponents, his style is too basic. He needs to adopt his own style instead of emulating his father. Also Roach is getting a lot of slack for Chavez performance, my question is How do they communicate? I’ve never been a fan of training a fighter through an interpreter. Maybe Chavez will improve if Nacho Bernstain trained him. What do you guys think?Posted September 18, 2012 9:39 pm
its not roaches fault that khan doesnt have a good chin thou I belive khan has to try a new trainer . its also not roach fault that chavez started boxing about 6 yrs ago at the age of20 and he is fighting top fighters .so chavez needs experience which he will get if he stays in boxing. and unfortunaly I dont think khan can get a new chin if khan stays away from the biggest punchers he should be al right for a while he a fast brave boxer but that chin will show up againPosted September 18, 2012 9:36 pm
The problem isn’t Roach, the problem is idiots like khan and chavez undermining roach and wasting his time. cant believe Jr didn’t show up to training and left roach waiting, unprofessional!!!!!!!Posted September 18, 2012 8:35 pm
You have to think that Freddie knew JJC was going to get scholed. Freddie said, I didnt think he was that fast, really?, ofcourse he knew. I think Freddie is training him as some kind of favor to somone. JJC is just a slow predictable power puncher. You cant coach talent so it doesnt matter who trains him.Posted September 18, 2012 7:56 pm
Captions for that Photo – Chicken Jr. “Freddy you said I could Box? and that I was Great?” ,, Roach “I was lying kid, you really suck and you cannot Box to save your life”Posted September 18, 2012 3:23 pm
I don’t see a lot of improvement in Chavez with Roach. Particularly not with the jab, footwork, or straight right. You’d think Khan would teach Jr. the long range game, since they’re stable mates.. If you’re a great technical trainer you see bigger gains in 3 months than Roach has achieved in years.. On the other hand Chavez has been getting boxing lessons since he was 3 years old.. Of course his dad didn’t have the height and reach of Julio Jr. and was basically an infighter. Most dads try to remake their kids in their own image.Posted September 18, 2012 11:16 am
Roach has improved Chavez Junior loads … it will be a mistake firing him.Posted September 18, 2012 9:40 am
Genius instructions from your trainer is useless if your fighter like JCCjr. is dumb arrogant and don’t listen that cost him his first lost.Posted September 18, 2012 5:20 am
who is inside the ring that fight ? then the blame should be also in the inside.Posted September 18, 2012 2:34 am
Listen to the Master
Roach told Amir Khan NOT to slug with Garcia, but Khan didn’t listen so he got hooked and out.
Roach told Chavez Jr. to CUT the ring so he could push Martinez to the ropes (so Jr. could throw body punches), but Chavez Jr. didn’t listen so he got beat up for 11 rounds.
Bottom line: Listen to your Master and follow your fighting plan!Posted September 18, 2012 1:04 am
Listen to the Master
Besides still the genius instructions, lessons and skills taught by Freddie Roach, I sadly feel that Freddie’s medical issue has been getting worse or deteriorating for the last few years, which causing him unable to physically and motivationally train his pupils/boxers as he used to. Sadly.Posted September 18, 2012 12:43 am
Listen to the Master
Roach made a statement that Chavez Jr. did NOT CUT the ring as trained in the gym and as TOLD in the corner; Roach kept telling him to CUT the ring so he could push Martinez onto the ropes, but Chavez Jr. didn’t listen. Also, Roach said Jr. did NOT throw punches nor worked enough to win. Personally, I think his RAPID rehydration of over 25 pounds in 24 hours made him too weak and too slow. With that said, Jr. partly beat himself by his severe WEIGHT DRAIN (look at his wrinkled face and sunken stomach in the weigh-in evening; he looked like he just came from a long, long hospital stay) and partly by Martinez’s skills and speed.Posted September 18, 2012 12:33 am
FREDDIE ROACH AND ” ALL ” OF THE SO CALLED (SUPER TRAINERS ) HAVE GREAT PRODUCTS TO WORK WITH ! BUT THEY ARE NOT “SUPER ‘ MEN !!! THEY CAN NOT GET IN THE RING WITH THEIR GUYS AND HELP THEM IN THOSE CRITICAL MOMENTS ! I THINK UNDER THE CIRCUSTANCES THAT JR. DID A GREAT JOB EVEN THOUGH HE WAS OUT CLASSED, HE STOOD IN AND FOUGHT HIS BEST , DROPPED THE CHAMP …. IN THE 12TH ROUND ?????? SO FORGET ROACH , THE SPOT LIGHT SHOULD BE ON THE PRINCIPAL ” SENIOR JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ JR. ” HE WILL BECOME A BETTER FIGHTER BECAUSE OF THIS LOST !Posted September 17, 2012 11:55 pm
@Pain, do you feel a genius by saying that “Floyd, Sergio and even Manny Pacquiao just have more skills than Chavez Jr.” ??? maybe next time you will say that in reality Sylvester Stallone can’t beat a real boxing world champion …Posted September 17, 2012 10:52 pm
I think Chavez’ downfall (and it also showed in the Lee fight) was that he just isn’t capable of throwing punches while he’s moving in. He just follows until his opponent stands still (much like Margarito does), and only then does he start throwing. It’s a strategy that works against guys that have endurance issues, but against guys like Martinez that can move constantly, it’s a bad strategy.
If Floyd Mayweather Jr. loses to somebody, would you blame Roger Mayweather? NO! Because Floyd is the one fighting! It’s a matter of skill. Chavez Jr. just doesn’t have the boxing skills.Posted September 17, 2012 10:38 pm
This is your typical brain dead lets stir up a story where there isn’t one kind of article. Chavez Jr is twice the fighter he was before stepping in the Wild Card Gym. To leave now would be stupid, their styles and training methods fit each other. Chavez was never going to beat Sergio yet he gave a good fight. Why not just give credit to where it is due instead of trying to stir up a story?Posted September 17, 2012 10:37 pm
You said it before and are as wrong than as you are now. Chavez Jr wasn’t half the fighter he is today when he stepped in the Wild Card. Everyone was predicting a knockout a year ago this time if this fight happened. Sergio is the better fighter and it wouldn’t matter who trained Chavez in that fight. Roach improved him greatly which is why he went to him.Posted September 17, 2012 10:34 pm
It was a great fight, hats off to Sergio and Chavez Jr. I have mention before Chavez Jr lack of Amateur fights is what will hurt him the most in big fights. He is a very very slow starter, IMO it is because his nerves are all over the place, when he starts to land his punches is the only time the goes away. He needs a good trainer to guide him through the early rounds. For example if the trainer sees Jr getting hit a lot of certain punches tell him what to do to counter from getting hit with those punches. Jr was getting counter by Sergio a lot and because Jr did not use his jab. Roach should have been telling Jr to jab Sergio in the chest to slow him down and then work the body. Sergio would have slowed considerable by round 10 and Jr would have gotten the KO, but Roach did not give any instruction to Jr on how to keep him from getting hit with all the punches. You can tell Jr was not listening to Roach anymore when he started hearing to same broken recorded, Roach saying you need a KO, you need to throw more punches. Jr just said YEAH YEAH YEAH in a shout the F&**K up type of response. Jr was looking for help on how to counter those punches or what punches he needed to throw to counter what Sergio was doing. Jr is not a type of fight that throws a lot of punches and with his size he does not have to be. He just need a good trainer to tell him how to deliver his own punches when fighting a fighters that is beating him to the punch. Trainers like Roach comes a dime a dozen. In the gym, they are telling you to throw hooks, jabs, right hand…ect. But in the actually fight instead of them Jr how us those punches they worked on in the gym against Sergio style, he was telling him something totally different, it is like Jr was learning from scratch because Roach did not lead him through the rounds by telling him what punches to throw to take Sergio out of his rhythm.Posted September 17, 2012 10:20 pm
What does this article mean? That it’s Freddie’s fault Amir and Chavez Jr lost? That’s just brainless. The fighter is the one who is fighting in the ring! The trainer is there to show him the way. The fighter have to take it from there and do the rest. If Floyd Mayweather loses to somebody, would you blame Roger Mayweather? NO! Because Floyd is the fighter! It’s a matter of skill. Floyd, Sergio and even Manny Pacquiao just have more skills than Chavez Jr.Posted September 17, 2012 9:50 pm
Chavez jr does not belong on American T.V he belongs back in the auditorio de Tijuana making $600 a fight instead of 3 million.
By the way that last post was me. Sorry; haven’t posted on this site for a while!!!!Posted September 17, 2012 9:34 pm
What’s up Te Tumbo; I have to totally agree with you on the Williams scenario. I think the reason Chavez Jr. gets a bad rap is because of who is father is bottom line. Whenever a fighter comes from the line of legends he or she is expected to live up to that legendary career or go further. That’s just the way fans are. Laila Ali went through the same thing. Folks blamed her for riding her dad’s coat tail; and claimed she fought no one. She simply was good. Of course I would have loved to have watched her and Anne Wolfe get it on; but that’s another story for another day. Personally; I think Chavez Jr. does need someone who can teach him some technic. The strength both mental and physical are there; but he needs more than that to win at the elite level. I just don’t believe Roach is the one to teach him that. He also has to take his physical preparation for fights more seriously as well.Posted September 17, 2012 9:33 pm
If Roach is a dumb trainer i do believe JCCjr. is more dumber because he was the one who fought Martinez. JCCjr. knows that Martinez style is to hit and run so JCCjr. need to be more faster to chase Martinez to catch him. But JCCjr. was too slow and doesn’t know to counter punch. Roach need to dump some of his fighter who are arrogant and stubborn like JCCjr. If JCCjr. dump Roach it will be fine to him. It won’t affect Roach bank account.Posted September 17, 2012 9:32 pm
I meant to say “get to Martinez.”Posted September 17, 2012 9:25 pm
@ Michael Katac…. Chavez is no “C” level fighter.. You don’t make 3 million dollars in one night if you’re the average pug.. Chavez can easily beat the Andy Lee’s of the world, and Lee is no worse than a B level fighter.. Chavez has seriously undeveloped boxing skills but he’s no John Duddy when it comes to lack of finesse.. Duddy is a true C level fighters, but he did have a 29-1 record when he lost to Chavez — testament to the fat that 90% of professional boxers out there are D level or complete F’ers … In this sport it’s always been that way.Posted September 17, 2012 8:33 pm
As I see it, the loss was all Freddie’s fault. If during the 12th round Freddie had had stationed Larry Fine with his violin ringside to play “Pop Goes the Weasel,” then Chavez Jr. would not only have knocked out Martinez but also the first five people to enter the ring following the K.O. all the while shouting, “woo-woo-woo!” Yup, fire Freddie. The loss was all his fault. Ask me; I been there.Posted September 17, 2012 8:10 pm
Who can blame Freddy – in terms of Chavez JR and Khan, he got head hunted to train two boxers that come with massive pay days attached. Any trainer would have taken the gig. Emmanuel Steward has had his air share of average or over hyped boxers. Freddy trains them to the best of their abilities. In terms of the two mentioned above, they are both limited and to some extent arrogant.
We all saw on 24/7 Chavez did not train 100%. Khan and his entourage can also be disruptive. In most individual sports there is a break between sportsmen and trainers – look at tennis and you will see that this happens with all players as they try to improve or simply change things up.
Both of the above mentioned fighters need to improve defense, however I dont think that changing camps will solve this since their weaknesses are in a sense their strengths. Chavez pressures and takes punches, but he overcomes this using his size and strength. In terms of Khan, he has an explosive ring actions , through quick fire combos and looks for early knockouts, however his style still leaves him open to counters that his chin cant take.
even with changes in their set ups – I doubt that these two will win back their titles.Posted September 17, 2012 7:59 pm
News flash — Roach just ain’t that good, never was. He’s great at hypeing himself.Posted September 17, 2012 7:43 pm
its called epo :grin:Posted September 17, 2012 7:39 pm
You tell me. How can a guy that looks like a corpse on the weigh in, is famous for being lazy and took a sound beating for 11.5 rounds, still have the energy and strength to hurt a guy that has stood up to legitimate world champs all his career?Posted September 17, 2012 7:33 pm
2 fights ago everybody was praising Roach for helping Jr. transform from a circus attraction to a legitimate contender. Bottom line: Martinez is a superior fighter. He could’ve had ANY trainer in the world and the strategy would have been the same. No one’s going to turn Chavez into Marquez and no one’s going to make you let your hands go in there. The kid got schooled by a 37 year old half his size and if they fight again Chavez might look more lively the first few rounds thinking he can get Martinez out of there, but he’ll realize soon enough what’s up and get knocked out.Posted September 17, 2012 7:29 pm
to say that Williams fought guys his own size is “COMICAL” and absurd on its face. you gonna tell me that the 6’3″ Williams couldn’t carry an extra 13lbs? well, you’d be right because he was overrated and could barely carry 147lbs-154lbs without being regularly dinged and embarrassed by much smaller fighters. Btw, tossing all of these weight calculations into one hat and mixing them all up is deceptive and misleading. if you sincerely think that Chavez Jr. outweighed Martinez by 15lbs–20lbs on fight-night, you need to produce at-Least a reasonably accurate estimation of what you think Martinez weighed. otherwise, the day after so many of you were claiming that Chavez Jr. still weighed 180lbs, he weighed-in at 167lbs(?!). unfortunately, Jr-Haters can only be trusted to pick, choose, and distort facts and rumors in a way that most denigrates Chavez Jr., which makes them not trustworthy at all and what’s the point? not talking Boxing, that’s for sure.Posted September 17, 2012 7:22 pm
The fight Showed that Chavez almost knocked Martinez out in the last rd after taking everything Martinez could muster! Martinez demonstrated why he’s ranked in the pound for pound list, and boxed great all night, but it also showed Chavez is dangerous even in the 12th rd. Martinez was lucky to servive it! Chavez hurt Martinez more than Pavlik or Williams. A rematch would look very interesting now that Jr (and Martinez) knows he can really hurt Sergio.Posted September 17, 2012 7:19 pm
To say Chavez fights guys his own size is COMICAL! He outweighed Martinez by 15-20lbs on fight night EASILY!! Which is why he chose NOT to get on the unofficial scale, he cuts nearly 40lbs to “make weight”, if that’s not fighting smaller guys then I don’t know what is.Posted September 17, 2012 6:31 pm
Williams had/has a small frame, he made 147 with NO problem…I don’t think he even had to “make weight”, he was naturally a 147lber. Being tall isn’t his fault. Now I could understand if he walked around 180lbs and boiled down to 147, but he did NOT. Chavez walks around at 200 lbs (at least) and boils down to 160, that’s 40lbs. There’s NO double standard there, Chavez fights guys who are MUCH smaller than he is, ask Roach.Posted September 17, 2012 6:28 pm
Roach the joke coach…Posted September 17, 2012 6:21 pm
where were you when the 6’3″ Williams was picking on a 5’8″ Quintana and calling out a 5’8″ Mayweather and 5’7″ Pacquiao*? in Williams’ case it distinguished him as “most avoided” and top-10 “P4P”(!?). for some reason, it distinguishes the 6′ Chavez Jr. as a “cheat” and “bully” (lol) . . . and the double-standards abound.Posted September 17, 2012 6:19 pm
Khan and waterhead Chavez Jr are bit@h’s nothing more. They both will change trainers after the next “L”. Both are B level fighters….one glass jaw…one waterheadPosted September 17, 2012 6:17 pm
It doesn’t matter who trains him he has to train like a fighter and not a pampered kid. You do not train in your house, take your butt to the gym and put in the work. That needs to be the first thing he needs to get through his head and then maybe move up to 168. But I didn’t watch the fight so I’m not sure how he looked other than the after pictures and the text that I got saying he got taken to a clinicPosted September 17, 2012 5:56 pm
Chavez jr. is nothing but a gimmick boxer who comes in 20 or more pounds on fight night a day after the weigh-in.He`s a sicko for doing that on purpose and his size makes him look like a freak.A bubble-sized butt on a female like Kim Kardashian looks good but a bubble-sized head on a boxer like Chavez Jr. makes him look like a circus freak.The extra weight makes him look like a bully and a world-beater against stationary boxers like Andy Lee.But against A-level Martinez who boxes and moves things went south in a hurry for Chavez Jr.The fight showed that he`s not in the same league as Martinez.Posted September 17, 2012 5:50 pm
bottomline, the promise of Roach has NEVER included becoming a Mayweather, Ward, or Martinez if you weren’t already there to begin with. what you see with Roach is what you get: physical preparation to complete 12 rounds of give-and-take action.Posted September 17, 2012 5:47 pm
Roach has never been the best trainer who ever believed that bs, oh that’s right many idiots.Saw pac,khan,jr losing a mile away it’s not a coincidence they all lost in the same year.Well within a yr time span Pac lost to JMM not big head tim.One more thing Beristan>roach.Nacho builds great fighters from scratch & teaches all-around fundamentals roach has known fighters fall into his lap because they believe in the hype then end up leaving him.Is roach garbage?no he’s just very overrated.All offense no defense too 1dimensional.Yes 1dimensional Bring on Pac-marquez 4 & Martinez-jr 2 you’ll see no improvements & same result.A very controversial split decision over Marquez & Tko by a healthy Sergio.Roach is overrated just like his fighters.Posted September 17, 2012 5:45 pm
Roach can no longer inspire from the corner. Fine trainer. But come fight night, he needs somebody else to bark out instructions & inspire.Posted September 17, 2012 5:45 pm
this response is for HIDALGO.Posted September 17, 2012 5:43 pm
Total nonsense and speculation. Jr never once hinted he’s leaving Roach. Just because he lost a bout most expected him to lose doesn’t mean he’s firing Roach.Posted September 17, 2012 5:43 pm
“sorry” but you neither accepted the challenge or answered the question. unless you are willing to confidently declare Pacquiao*, Khan, and Chavez Jr. to be superior boxers, those examples are irrelevant since being a superior boxer has never been a pre-requisite for winning a title (e.g., Pacquiao*, Khan, and Chavez Jr.). Pacquiao* still doesn’t employ a consistent jab, body-attack, or head movement. Khan has become a slugger despite having all the physical talent to become a superior boxer. i believe that Chavez Jr. has displayed momentary flashes of boxing ability. in fact, he deflected plenty of the 900 punches that Martinez was compelled to throw to keep him off of him but Roach will always emphasize pressure and “I want you to put this guy on his ass!” in fact, it’s simply unfair to hold Roach to the standard of a Beristain whose taken fighters with average physical talent and molded them into superior boxer-punchers. where are Roach’s Zaragozas or Marquez’s?Posted September 17, 2012 5:42 pm
junior getting the chop not roach :roll:Posted September 17, 2012 5:34 pm
The fighter makes the trainer, not the other way round. Roach is an elite trainer, but the hype that’s been heaped on him over the past few years has been way over the top. He isn’t Merlin for chrissakes.
Every ex-fighter who turns trainer will naturally have an inclination to train his fighters the way he himself fought. With Roach this means fighting on the front foot with an aggressive style, designed to break your opponent down. It also means taking shots. Pac makes many elementary mistakes that his speed concealed. But JMM came up with the blueprint to beat him. Amir Khan has not progressed beyond the level just below elite and is being found out. JCC Jnr was exposed against elite level opposition, yet had looked terrific in his previous four fights against less than elite opposition.
Roach is definitely showing signs of weariness. He takes on too many fighters and is spread too thin. I don’t see him being around too much longer unless he drastically changes his approach. I hope he is. He’s a great guy, as others have said.Posted September 17, 2012 5:31 pm
“We’ve become a reality TV spectacle to say the least.” No kidding.Posted September 17, 2012 5:30 pm
Great post and agree 100%Posted September 17, 2012 5:29 pm
I don’t agree Tark. Chavez has been doing fine until he fought Martinez. I think issue lies with Chavez not being on the same level as Sergio Martinez. Martinez is a special bird. The guy has amazing stamina, willpower, courage, heart and skills. He has so many ways to beat an opponent. And he never quits. Never, no matter what condition he’s in. That’s a hard beast to defeat. Roach can’t help Chavez to throw more punches. Roach can’t keep Chavez from being confused and disoriented by martinez’s unorthodox offense, or his speed. But now that Freddie has seen Martinez live against his champion, maybe he has learned something that will help Chavez to defeat Sergio next time–if that fight happens. But you are right, Chavez would have to learn to box very rapidly. And he’d have to develop some serious speed. Martinez already proved that.Posted September 17, 2012 5:28 pm
again roach did everything he could to help junior chavez behaves like a spoilt child not turning up to training not sparing deciding that he would train “himself” making roach meet him at 2am to train and then not turning up ETC ETc its roach not junior who should be getting the CHOP ..! :!:Posted September 17, 2012 5:28 pm
TOTALLY agree TE TUMBO….Posted September 17, 2012 5:24 pm
Roach will dump Chavez!!!!Posted September 17, 2012 5:23 pm
“Roach was overrated LONG ago and I stand CORRECT.” Chavez created his own downfall, not Freddie Roach. Freddie told him over and over to let his hands go but Chavez wouldn’t. Then from round 10 on Freddie kept telling Jr. he needed to get a KO to win. Yet, Chavez couldn’t put anything together til the 12th round and that still wasn’t enough–Martinez even outboxed him in that round, even though he was down and hurt. And Martinez did all that with a broken hand. Like someone else said, “You can lead a horse to water…”Posted September 17, 2012 5:23 pm
TRUTH is people have been fooled thinking Roach is the best trainer in the world….HE can’t be. He’s never had a Plan B for any of his fighters…. Look at how clueless Pacman was vs Shane Moseley (who was old, had bad legs and was there for the taking from the mid point), Clottey and Juan Manuel Marquez…. Khan vs Maidana, Peterson and now Garcia and JCC Jnr in almost all his bouts as well as Kayode vs a 40+ year old Tarver….
Before that when he had ODLH vs Floyd and many more…
A good trainer should have a sound game plan, should have the ear of their fighter, should be able to change up the game plan during a fight – Roach just sat there in Khan’s last two bouts and when Pac fought Dinamita… there was no change up, no change of tactics, no words in the ear of his fighters…. NOTHING…..
Roach is not a bad trainer – just not the best…. I have always rated men like Manny Steward as far, far greater than he as he promotes both offence and defence in equal regard and to be honest he is a far better strategist….
Adam Booth is an up and coming trainer who not only in most cases seems to have a sound strategy, but has the ear of his fighters, is not scared to change up a strategy if its not working (except for the Haye vs Klitschko debacle)….And is not only calm but focused in the midst of the fight…. Freddie doesn’t seem to be focused anymore…
I don’t think, the circus that is Paquiao and Arum probably doesn’t help….
I personally haven’t seen any real improvements in either Khan or Jnr since joining Roach.
The greatest worry I have with Roach fighters is none of them seem to be able to slip a punch…. they all seem to take punches flush to the jaw or side of the head…. No slipping, no catching shots as they stay in close, no blocking, nothing….
Taking punches to the head is part and parcel of the sport, but when this can lead to pugilistic dementia, I would rather work with a trainer who would encourage a fair bit on the fundamentals of defence….
IMHO DEFENCE wins matches…..
Look at Andre Ward, his defensive skills probably go by totally unnoticed, but if you look at him since super six, he’s hardly taken a punch, let alone a flush one, but no one would mention his defence as it goes by unnoticed as he works his way inside, using great footwork and upper body movement to get in close quick.
I can’t remember a Roach fighter with a decent defence in recent times!
Look at Wlad, who has been floored and stopped, but since he got his defence sorted his weakness- his chin is almost impregnable!
It won’t get any better with ODLH offering USD 100,000 for the best KO of the night! It’s all well and good for the casual fan, but when it comes to elite level it’s all about the skillsets and KO’s are few and far between, unless fighters get reckless and mistakes are usually punished at this level!!!!Posted September 17, 2012 5:20 pm
I accept your challenge but I’ll answer it this way. Roach helped three world-famous champions to win their belts: Pacquiao/Khan/Chavez Jr. Now that they’ve lost their belts you’re calling them C+ boxers and blaming Roach for all of their belt losses. Listen, even if Chavez had chosen to box instead of do whatever it was he did on Saturday night–which wasn’t much–he couldn’t outbox Martinez. He doesn’t have the speed, skill, intelligence, or ring I.Q. to do that. I think Freddie can be held partially to blame for allowing Martinez to get a 24 ft. ring to fight in. But he can’t make Chavez punch if he doesn’t want to punch. Chavez just wasn’t letting his hands go. Why? Because every time he thought about doing so, Martinez delivered a stinging blow to his face that made Chavez change his mind. Martinez effectively negated Chavez for 11 rounds simply because Chavez was afraid and/or confused to let his hands go. And, Chavez was farting around before the fight when he should have been training. But no matter. Sergio was just that much better. Period.Posted September 17, 2012 5:19 pm
There’s no reason for Chavez to dump Roach right now. Even knowing that the fight was going to be in a huge 24 ft. ring, which indicated that Martinez planned to move around a lot–and wanted a lot of room to move–Roach couldn’t have created a scenario that would have helped Jr. to figure out or get to Chavez. Both Freddie and Chavez Sr. kept telling Jr. to let his hands go and to just punch. But he couldn’t and he wouldn’t. Chavez was clearly no match for Martinez. Even when Martinez was only fighting with one hand. If there is a rematch however, I bet Roach won’t agree to a big ring–Chavez needs a smaller one so he can keep the pressure on Martinez and limit Martinez’s ability to stick and move.Posted September 17, 2012 5:11 pm
Roach hasn’t even been able to lead a fighter to a jab or a body-punch or even the simple if not instinctual reaction of ducking with regularity to avoid punches. at this point, it’s simply unfair to judge Roach according to this ability. the promise of Roach has NEVER included becoming a Mayweather, Ward, or Martinez if you weren’t already there to begin with.Posted September 17, 2012 5:07 pm
Jr kinda reminds me of Margarito except he’s got real power but isn’t as relentless.Posted September 17, 2012 5:03 pm
Chavez jr. Is clearly scared of fighters his own size or else he would take roaches advice to move up! He looked friggen dead at the weigh-ins. I mean half the camp shouldn’t be trying to loose weightPosted September 17, 2012 5:01 pm
m p lewis
jr.fight like he 5 feet tall and he 6 feet tall he a big man and he should fight like onePosted September 17, 2012 5:00 pm
i can see that some posters are already leaping to Roach’s defense(?). my challenge to these posters is to name a Single fighter that Roach has transformed into a polished or even simply a C+ boxer? . . . anybody?Posted September 17, 2012 4:59 pm
“Another Freddie Roach pupil lost big time this past Saturday night but had a chance to pull it out in the last round but didn’t “, which is the notorious promise of every Roach fighter: the ability to engage in 12 solid rounds of give-and-take action and let the chips fall where they may. only oblivious “experts” and delusional fanboys have ever believed that Roach can or has improved a fighter’s technique or boxing skills. Pacquiao* has displayed the bare minimum of improved boxing skills (which can just as easily be attributed to raw experience rather than Roach’s instruction) and Linares and Khan may have actually regressed in a technical sense due to Roach’s obsession with KO fight-plans. however, Chavez Jr. was physically prepared to score a KO in the final round v. a mobile opponent who had already thrown 900 punches but IF Chavez Jr. wants to and believes that he can become a technically proficient fighter, he either needs to invite another trainer into this camp or join another trainer’s camp altogether.Posted September 17, 2012 4:48 pm
Chavez Jr should not dump Roach, it wasnt Freddie’s fault that Chavez Jr is just not that good. He is a C level fighter at best who is overrated and got where he is riding Papa’s coattails. Chavez had been matched up against against mostly second tier opponenets the best guys being Duddy, Lee and Zbik. they were no where near the challenge that MArtinez presented. Chavez should just admit he lost to a better fighter and likely a future hall of famer in Sergio MAravilla Martinez.Posted September 17, 2012 4:44 pm
Agreed Titopa. WTF! is just a headlining troll that simply repeats what others have written. Roach has been begging Jr. to move up in weight so he can concentrate more on boxing rather than making weight. Apparently WTF! didn’t see the boxing exhibition Jr. put on Manfredo, and what Jr. is capable of.Posted September 17, 2012 4:38 pm
That’s because Chavez doesn’t belong in the MW division and often sacrifices his boxing over making weight. YouTube Chavez vs Manfredo and you’ll witness a really good boxing exhibition by Chavez Jr. Roach has been begging Chavez Jr. to move up where he would superior.Posted September 17, 2012 4:35 pm
Not exactly! Who knows what would’ve happened had Chavez attacked Martinez while Martinez was “fresher”….maybe Chavez would’ve got sat on his a**, we don’t know, but what we do know is that Martinez boxed circles around Jr. for 34 minutes, Jr. was puzzled and Martinez’s speed was SUPREME!!Posted September 17, 2012 4:34 pm
FM uses his methods to gain a personal mental edge. He works out in the middle of the night because he knows his opponent is sleeping and that means FM is working harder (in his mind). MP has to train around his political engagements, and again, he may see it as an advantage to work out at odd hours. Chavez and Khan are just spoiled primadonnas.Posted September 17, 2012 4:32 pm
No one will be a good choice for Chavez until Chavez decides to re-dedicate himself to the sport. Roach has been wanting Chavez to move up to 168lbs for the longest where he would be stronger, and quicker. A bad trainer wouldn’t suggest this move to his fighter. Don’t blame Roach for Chavez’s shortcoming’s. You act like no one has ever left Steward or Beristain. Cotto left Steward, Nacho abandoned Abner Mares when he signed with Frank Espanoza, which is worse then a fighter leaving his trainer. There many examples.Posted September 17, 2012 4:31 pm
They can’t blame Roach…Jr’s style has ALWAYS been like this, we (those who picked Martinez) knew that would be the reason why Sergio would prevail, Chavez is a slow, heavy footed fighter who relies on his size/strength to over power and eventually wear down his smaller opponents, he has NO real “boxing skills”, that was evident as he walked around the ring while Martinez boxed his face off.Posted September 17, 2012 4:31 pm
Is it a big loss if he does?Posted September 17, 2012 4:28 pm
Its Me, Ernie
Freddy is still one of the top trainers the world over. You can lead a horse to water….Posted September 17, 2012 4:21 pm
This is partially Roach’s fault, but this is definitely more Jr’s fault. Trainers need to instill a set schedule regardless of the money. Ever since Pac and May have shown unorthodox training styles many boxers are trying to do the same, but they are doing so after many years of discipline. Jr and Kahn are just proving to be unprofessional by not following traditional traning methods, thinking they were already at the top.Posted September 17, 2012 4:18 pm
I think the Chavez Family, Senior especially are not happy with Juniors performance Saturday night and they rightly put alot of blame on Fredy Roaches style of training.. it’s always the same thing.. teach them to plow forward take shots and try to break the opponent down… not much to it… Roach has been an over hyped fighter since Manny Paquiao landed in his lap… he really hasn’t produced any Great fighters that weren’t already Gifted Fighters…Posted September 17, 2012 4:11 pm
No.Posted September 17, 2012 4:02 pm
I SAID that Roach was overrated LONG ago and I stand CORRECT. I knew it was just a matter of time before he got exposed. He feasted on #0 P4P opponents and fooled most of the public but he didn’t fool ME…. As SOON as he took on Top P4P competition his Fighters got schooled with no recess. And now they’re all taking MY advice and dropping him.Posted September 17, 2012 3:27 pm
Roach is getting pretty sick and that could effect his abilty to train fighters…which is sad. For Khan this was a wise move I feel(we shall see) because for all his faults he does have alot of skills aswell.Chavez jr. i dont think will go much further Roach took him alot further then most thought he would ever go.Plus Chavez jr. will have to move up in weight…and good luck with that..lol.Posted September 17, 2012 3:23 pm
Roach took to MUCH S**T off of Chavez Jr!! Chavez Jr only got away with what he could get away with…an Roach let him. And that’s BAD for boxing!Posted September 17, 2012 3:19 pm
JCCjr. is stubborned of not listening to Roach to go for kill in the last three rounds. If JCCjr. pressured Martinez early like he did in the last round possibly he can knock Matinez out. If JCCjr. switch to other trainer it won’t help him unless he change his bad attitude for being hardheaded of not listening to his coach. Or maybe JCCjr. didn’t undetstand Roach because he don’t speak english, just kidding hahahahaha.Posted September 17, 2012 3:18 pm
RaidR, what’s up?? Take a deep breath, and relax. Said NOTHING about Hunter training Chavez Jr, just made REFERENCE to Khan jumping ship and going with Hunter that’s ALL. Emanuel Steward who trained Chavez Sr late in his career and Nacho Beristain would be GOOD choices for Chavez Jr. Steward is a reclamation trainer, most of the fighters he works with at SOME point or another were FAILING and he brought them back. Beristain would WORK on the fundamentals of boxing that Chavez Jr doesn’t have.Posted September 17, 2012 3:15 pm
Chavez needs to make a change… Hunter would be an excellent choice. JCC would make an excellent sparring partner for Ward and they can go 8 to 12 rounds 3 times a week.. Chavez would learn how to box very rapidly. He’d be very good in a year or two.. Right now his jab and straight right are so slow and undeveloped there’s no way he can outpoint an elite sharp-shooter.. Right now his defense stinks …. If he doesn’t make a change he’ll continue to be a punching bag for boxers the caliber of Martinez.Posted September 17, 2012 3:08 pm
It’s kind of sad for Freddie roach because his illness is really causing him to be unable to coach well anymore I really don’t think he’s going to be good much longer but he is a great guy.Posted September 17, 2012 2:59 pm
Robert why are you allowed to publish such biased rubbish? Do you honestly think that Hunter can get Chavez, a known asshat that doesn’t show up for workouts, etc. to the gym or keep to a schedule? You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it train.
DLH changed trainers like underwear, does that mean all his trainers were bad? You obviously don’t know anything about the history of boxing other than tabloid grade trolling posts. You sir is what’s wrong with American boxing. We’ve become a reality TV spectacle to say the least.Posted September 17, 2012 2:57 pm