Boxing

post comment

Boxtradamus

Kovalev is Top 10 in the Sport. Go get you some EYEGLASSES.

Posted October 24, 2013 12:53 am 


Old Yank

Siobhan NY — Do you believe that boxing is out of ideas for making the sport more fan-friendly? It’s at its peak? No rule changes needed? Nothing should be done?

Please read this: google (and don’t forget the quotes around “old yank”) —

“old yank” can you spare some change

Just copy and paste it to your browser.

Posted October 23, 2013 7:36 pm 


Siobhan NY

Oh I’m so tired of hearing “boxing is dying”…

Mayweather-Alvarez numbers suggest boxing isn’t dying!!!

Posted October 23, 2013 5:34 pm 


Haimat

Tark, you need to stop mentioning Kovalev as some sort of boxing great. He’s a b-level fighter. His biggest win coming against an unproven Welsh guy who I can’t remember his name. Come on.

Posted October 23, 2013 5:32 pm 


Old Yank

TARK — If all of boxing looked like a Rigondeaux bout, the sport would be DEAD inside 6 months! He can’t draw flies to crap! He is unquestionably a stunning technician and is unquestionably unable to find fans beyond purists.

Posted October 23, 2013 4:23 pm 


Old Yank

TARK — I NEVER said defense is not a part of boxing. No need to make crap up.

The sport of boxing embraces all of the sub-styles you mentioned — brawling, boxer/puncher, etc…and indeed it embraces the defensive technician. The sport of boxing INCLUDES slugging, brawling, clinching, footwork, defense, combinations, stalking, counterpunching and on and on. The suggestion that boxing is only the art of self-defense is dumb beyond belief. Boxing is the entire bag of tricks associated with all techniques that elevates the sport above a street fight. Swarming, stalking and brawling are all TECHNIQUES used to WIN a boxing match as is defense, counterpunching and more.

Why you place yourself in need of this primer is hard to fathom.

However, the man capable of OUTSCORING an opponent in clean, effective punching is PRESUMED to have accomplished it via effective aggression, defense and ring generalship. This is why if you can clearly and OBJECIVELY see a fighter OUTSCORING an opponent in clean, effective punching there is NO NEED to assess defense, effective aggression and ring generalship because one cannot objectively and clearly be superior in clean, effective punching without the other scoring criteria being present. ONLY when one cannot identify the objective and clear winner in clean, effective punching is there a need to assess scoring on the basis of defense, effective aggression and ring generalship, If a man objectively and clearly bests his opponent in clean, effective punching in a round, GIVE HIM 10 POINTS and his opponent 9 or less.

Posted October 23, 2013 4:14 pm 


TARK

Old Yank.., “The more purely defensive fighter who was/is more focused on looking like a ballerina who can’t be hit than a fighter capable of imposing his will via his wits and his fists. The drifting from the roots of boxing is what opened the door for the massive explosive entertainment value of MMA.”

Who are the current “ballerinas” out there who are destroying the sport?

Rigondeaux? Lomachenko? Mayweather? Mikey Garcia? Golovkin? Ward? Kovalev? … I want to know who your ballerinas are

Posted October 23, 2013 3:43 pm 


TARK

Obviously clean, effective punching is the main scoring criteria… That’s why not getting hit with clean, effective punches is so important.. If you score 20 clean effective punches out of 40 thrown, and your opponent scores 10 clean effective punches out of 50 thrown, who wins the round?

The better defender wins. As in almost all cases. One defensive lapse in a 12 round fight and you can be down for the count.

Posted October 23, 2013 3:30 pm 


TARK

Old Yank.., Your argument is nonsense. Boxing was always the art of self defense. Anybody who’s strong, fast, and tough, and has tremendous punching power, can prevail in a slugfest. That’s not boxing.

You want to test your chin? your stamina? your strength? your will? your punching power? your speed? your toughness? Your machismo? You can do all that in a slugfest. That’s good for a fighter, brawler, mauler, whatever.

You want to test your IQ? The depth of your knowledge? Your skills? Your artfulness? Your wisdom? Your innate resourcefulness? Chances are you’d rather learn the art of self defense. You’d rather be a boxer.

Boxing is boxing — slugging is slugging — fighting is fighting — brawling is brawling — slugging is fighting — slugging is brawling — fighting is brawling — boxing isn’t slugging — boxing isn’t fighting — boxing isn’t brawling.

Boxing is the art of hitting without being hit. Hitting is important. But if you get hit more and harder your opponent is out-boxing you…and you lose. Therefore not getting hit is much more important.

Who is the best boxer in the world? The best defender. Not the best puncher, best slugger, or best brawler, or the guy with the highest KO ratio.

I love MMA, but it’s a completely different sport. It combines all the fighting arts into one sport—including boxing. You don’t have to be “standing” to win. You can submit your opponent while you’re lying on the floor. MMA doesn’t hurt Boxing. It makes boxing bigger.

All these MMA players have to learn how to box from somebody. Jon Jones goes to boxing gyms. He even went to the Wild Card Gym and boxed under the direction of Freddy Roach.

Posted October 23, 2013 3:13 pm 


Old Yank

Ike — google — “old yank” last man standing

Read the article and learn something.

Posted October 23, 2013 12:41 pm 


Old Yank

Ike — If you understood the history of the sport then you’d understand what I’m talking about.

Posted October 23, 2013 10:34 am 


Ike

Old Yank, you don’t know what you’re talking about !

Posted October 23, 2013 10:28 am 


Old Yank

TARK — Now that’s nice and all…but it is CRAPOLA!

In scoring a bout clean effective punching (scoring) takes the front seat and all other factors take the back seat (defense, effective aggression and ring generalship). The emphasis has ALWAYS been on clean, effective punching.

How dumb is it to suggest that the sport is primarily about defense? Why not just do a ninja warrior gauntlet that tests defense rather than even have an opponent involved at all? No Tark, you are all wet. The sport is about using your wits and your FISTS to impose your will on another man to the point of causing him to lose consciousness, or give up, or cause a ref to end it, or demonstrate to judges that you did more toward this end in each round than your opponent did.

The goal is to impose one’s will using only one’s wits and fists. Corbett, Johnson, Tunney, Pep, Whitaker, Wright. Mayweather and more were/are defensive fighters, but they all not only GOT HIT, but they won because they SCORED!

Boxing has its roots in last-man-standing and anyone that tries to tell a young fan a different story is full of CRAPOLA! It is the drifting from these roots that opened the door for the more purely defensive fighter who was/is more focused on looking like a ballerina who can’t be hit than a fighter capable of imposing his will via his wits and his fists. The drifting from the roots of boxing is what opened the door for the massive explosive entertainment value of MMA.

Posted October 23, 2013 10:12 am 


Anonymous

Larry Merchant knows very little about Boxing. Floyd Mayweather forgot more about Boxing than Larry ever knew on his best day. He gets a little foggier as the years roll on.

Most of the stuff Larry Merchant knows for sure is pure BS to begin with.

Posted October 22, 2013 10:15 pm 


Boxtradamus

IF he knows as much as Larry he doesn’t know MUCH.

Posted October 22, 2013 8:47 pm 


Hidalgo

“Jim Corbett believed the essence of boxing was defense. He said, “No good boxer should ever get hit with a right hand.””

I think Tark is Larry Merchant. He just knows too darn much about boxing. C’mon Larry, fess up! :)

Posted October 22, 2013 8:41 pm 


Boxtradamus

Congrats on Tim Bradley becoming #3 P4P. He’s still behind Floyd, Rigo, and Ward on MY personal list but he’s definitely gaining on Ward. He just beat 2 Fighters who are BETTER than anyone that Ward has faced. The Boxing IQ that he displayed vs Marquez was SUPERB. His next logical opponent is Floyd. That says alot. He has earned his shot at the Top Boxer in the Sport…..IF only he were British. He should fabricate a story saying that his bloodline runs back to the UK.

Posted October 22, 2013 8:36 pm 


TARK

Boxing was never “last man standing.” It was always the art of self defense.

Jim Corbett believed the essence of boxing was defense. He said, “No good boxer should ever get hit with a right hand.”

Jack Johnson was a defensive specialist who believed a great boxer should be “as hittable as a ghost.”

Gene Tunney was floored once and never stopped. He said a great boxer gets hit with a hard punch “only by accident.”

Billy Soose said he was only hit with 2 hard punches in his career, a body shot by Tony Zale and a left hook from Jimmy Bivins. He said “I never dreamed I’d get knocked out, and I never was.”

Charley Burley said, “I fought 100 fights and nobody hit me hard yet.”

Willie Pep said, “Nobody hit me for my first 140 fights—at least not when I was on my P’s and Q’s. I didn’t want anyone to touch me. I got lazy and the craft got away from me. I started getting hit. When you lose the love for Boxing you should quit. But I didn’t. Boxing was the only thing I knew. If it wasn’t for slow horses and fast women I could have quit a lot sooner.”

Posted October 22, 2013 5:59 pm 


Rem

Lets get 1 thing straight the matial arts are about mastering and perfecting technique. You have technical masters like Silva and in boxing you have clumsy sluggers like Prog and Angulo so don’t say such silly things smh.

Posted October 22, 2013 5:26 pm 


Old Yank

TARK — Who was the guy DQ’ed for failing to fight in the ’70′s? Around the Jimmy Young time period.

Posted October 22, 2013 5:12 pm 


Shane

Odd stance on testing when it come to his brutha’s. Who BTW are both dirty.

Posted October 22, 2013 4:49 pm 


urone2

We have smart boxcers to day because soem of them would like to be able to hold a conversation and be understood. The Fighter of yesteryear ended up punch drunk and broken and all of the fan who wanted to see that kind of violence don’t care what happens to them onec they are out of the game. Those guys left body, soul and their minds in the ring and when they left the ring the fan left them.

Posted October 22, 2013 4:49 pm 


TARK

I can remember only one boxer being DQ’d for not fighting enough.

Ingemar Johansson was DQ’d over 60 years ago in the 1952 Olympics.
Johansson and Ed Sanders were fighting for the Olympic Gold Medal. Ingo said his plan was to fight defensively and get the 220-pound Sanders tired from swinging at air — and to try to blitz Sanders and nail him with a 3rd round surprise attack and big right hands. The referee stopped the contest late in the 2nd round and DQ’d Ingo.

Olympic officials were so incensed at Johansson’s conduct that they even denied him the Silver Medal or ANY medal.

Johansson said, “I don’t care because I wanted the Gold Medal anyway, not the Silver Medal. The rules don’t say you have to punch every minute, and I was following the rules with my strategy.”

Two years later Sanders died from brain damage following a pro fight.

Posted October 22, 2013 4:37 pm 


Anonymous

Terrible comparison. Jones vs Gustafsson was exciting because both of them were trading vicious strikes. Neither of them were scared of getting hit or holding on for dear life to try and prevent they other from landing strikes. There were ebbs and flows in the action, shifts in momentum, and lots of blood and guts on display. It was two iron wills battling it out in a war of attrition. Both were taking ridiculous amounts of punishment and coming back with more of their own. All in all it was real warrior stuff and that’s why the fans loved it.

I’m sorry but watching a petrified tit prancing round the ring in reverse mode throwing a handful of punches each round and tying their opponent up all the time is just downright boring. Boxing is an entertainment sport and fighters who couldn’t care less about providing any entertainment at all shouldn’t complain about fans finding them boring.

Posted October 22, 2013 4:35 pm 


Old Yank

te tumbo — You are correct today. But BOXING used to be around for the non-purist as recently as 40 years ago. Now the non-purist needs MMA if they want a glimpse at what it means to tip a hat to last man standing.

Provodnikov is a throwback. Rios is a throwback. Alvarado is a throwback. Boxing really, really needs these guys because even purists are capable of getting bored.

Posted October 22, 2013 3:40 pm 


Old Yank

Dinosaurs stuck around for about 135 million years — I’m cool with that lad.

Posted October 22, 2013 3:36 pm 


PEEJ

I had Pac winning that fight but apparently the judges didn’t think fighting for 30 seconds a round was gonna do it for Pac. So they gave it too Bradley. Not like he was landing many punches on Bradley nor did he ever hurt Bradley.

Posted October 22, 2013 3:08 pm 


te tumbo

for non-purists there is MMA. for purists there is Boxing, which can include brutal spectacle and technical achievement in the same bout (e.g., Bradley v. Provodnikov). there is nothing “elitist” about insisting on the best fighters facing each other on a level playing-field and allowing the fists to drop where they may. it IS elitist to insist on disparaging any fighter who maintains the upper-hand by smartly negotiating their way around voluntary conditions. at least until their pride is satisifed and their price accurately read. $25 million sounds about right but not even $50 million was adequate compensation for Pacquiao* to face his primary P4P rival. this is a suspect outrage to the purist and pandering to the non-purist aka Pactarded* fanboys.

Posted October 22, 2013 2:38 pm 


Rem

Ha ha if Bradley beat Pac Cotto shut Floyd out in their fight.

Posted October 22, 2013 1:58 pm 


PEEJ

Bradley would be Pac again. No point in talking about Pac and Floyd because Arum will never let that fight happen. He knows that Floyd would toy with Pac. He has always known that and that is why the fight has never happened.

Posted October 22, 2013 12:36 pm 


Rem

Ha ha i a Bradley fan am scared for him in a rematch with Pac. And Floyd is scared for himself ha ha.

Posted October 22, 2013 11:58 am 


2013

OLD YANK = OLD DINOSAUR, NOT FOR THESE TIMES.

Posted October 22, 2013 9:41 am 


Anonymous

NEWSFLASH sometime soon the yanks will start doing real drug testing in boxing.

Posted October 22, 2013 9:22 am 


Old Yank

Vivek — Respect and peace!

Posted October 22, 2013 8:56 am 


Happyboy

and when Iron Mike Tyson said a lot o these mtfs are on roids some fool s dismissed it cause Mike said it. Then Pac totally refused more stringent drug tests for a ” FIGHT OF THE DECADE” cause Mayweather dared make the request. Now that Pac got KTFO Marquez is on roids and Pac is now justified to request for the same TEST he avoided. No athlete is above approach when it comes to roids be it Mayweather, Pac, ARod, Barry Bonds etc,

Posted October 22, 2013 2:29 am 


Adrian

That’s exactly right fight aficionado ! Completely agree !

Posted October 22, 2013 12:49 am 


Fight Aficionado

“So a guy doing the intense training required of a boxer complains of fatigue??? EVERYONE would have fatigue if they trained 4-8 hours a day. Fatigue is a natural response to that kind of workload.
Presumably AFTER taking his synthetic testosterone he WASN`T experiencing such fatigue related to his training.” – Turbo as you know that’s the main reason athletes juice up: To quicken recovery so they can train hard again ASAP. Anyone who buys Peterson’s excuse means they also believe everyone is low on testosterone. Yeah, low compared to roids ragers.

Posted October 22, 2013 12:43 am 


Turb0-H@mster

Actually looking at what Vivek does here – notice a Dominican asks an American to undergo the strictest testing available, and we see Vivek fumble around numbers and incorrect interpretation of the regimes to defend the American and advocate lesser testing, and then he goes on to cast aspersion on the achievements of two non US fighters (Matthysse and Pac) who have never tested positive for anything banned, before moving back to defend an American who HAS, and would never have been caught without the testing regime he wants to do without.

Hmmmmmm…..

So these two non US fighters (Manny and Lucas) not only have to suffer the ignomy of judges in the US robbing them when they fight US fighters (Bradley, ALexander, Judah), but now they have the dog-whistling agenda-scribe on their case too.

Posted October 22, 2013 12:09 am 


TARK

@Hamster.., You’re right about Vivek’s take on Peterson. He’s dead wrong about Peterson’s “B” sample coming back “clean.” It was as dirty as sample A. Where does he come up with this misinformation?

Peterson denied using synthetic testosterone after sample “A” came back positive—and asked that sample “B” be tested. It wasn’t until AFTER sample “B” came back positive that his team came up with the medical need excuse.

In my view, having them test sample B gave Peterson’s team more time to invent an explanation for why he was on PED’s.. How can you keep denying the use of synthetic testosterone until B sample comes back—if you were taking it for medical reasons all along? … That’s unbelievable.

That’s dumber than I believe Peterson is, “Yeah I just forgot I was taking it.”

There is no medical need for your testosterone level to be as high as Peterson’s tested—and testosterone obviously enhances strength gains. They did a par for the course whitewash job as cover for one org to let LP keep a title. He was stripped of one title but kept the other. Vivek’s disingenuousness is beyond anything I’ve ever read.

Posted October 22, 2013 12:04 am 


Adrian

I was just watching the tale of gatti ward and boy every time I saw their first fight I get teary eyes always and this documentary made me cry … Sorry I am off topic here but boy just hearing steward screaming from excitement ,watching the spectators go wild I have never seen something like that in any other fight especially round. 9 that surpassed even the movie Rocky with the excitement that those two warriors did . I recommend this documentary to watch to those who didn’t and love boxing !

Posted October 21, 2013 11:25 pm 


PEEJ

Yeah I think you right about that on both cases. I was just making my point that I haven’t changed my story

Posted October 21, 2013 10:50 pm 


Turb0-H@mster

Yep – I have whey protein for training – usually in the “golden” half hour after a long session.
It’s just a certain kind of nutrition in its most easily absorbed form.

Used to use creatine too, but not anymore – I do triathlons don`t want to get bulky.

I also don`t like this defence of Peterson – I`ve seen it elsewhere that this was just medical, he derived no benefit etc.

Even if that were true – you still need to apply for a TUE or you are cheating.

Also – I read about Peterson a bit more, he`d been to the doctor complaining of fatigue – which they then attributed to low testosterone.

So a guy doing the intense training required of a boxer complains of fatigue??? EVERYONE would have fatigue if they trained 4-8 hours a day. Fatigue is a natural response to that kind of workload.
Presumably AFTER taking his synthetic testosterone he WASN`T experiencing such fatigue related to his training.

That sounds like the very definition of performance enhancing to me.

If we accept Viveks position then every boxer who experiences any fatigue should probably go take testosterone till they are just under the 4:1 ratio.

And lets be clear, it isn`t that this ration is where you start deriving benefit – you derive benefit the moment you put ANY synthetic testosterone in your body.

Posted October 21, 2013 9:50 pm 


Fight Aficionado

Turb0-H@mster it is LOL that Vivek tries to excuse Peterson a proven roids rager yet attempts to taint Matthysse for using amino acids. If Vivek knew anything about aminos he’d know that Matthysse didn’t stop taking Amino 4500 due to testing concerns, since no test in the world would find fault with their use. He may have stopped using Amino 4500 because your body gets used to one combo after a few months so you need to change your supplements. I actually used Amino 4500 and after 2 months of excellent results I switched back to pharmaceutical grade L-Arginine. All these aminos are 100% legal, have no side effects, and are in fact healthy.

Posted October 21, 2013 9:35 pm 


……A B C

Testing testing 1,2, 3

Posted October 21, 2013 8:38 pm 


Turb0-H@mster

PEEJ – I think Margarito put a sachet of something or other in his coffee – and that is what Roach was worried about.

Though honestly he was probably taking a lead out of Nazim Richardsons book, in that disrupting Margarito;’s preparations and getting his mind off the job would help his own fighter.

Posted October 21, 2013 8:15 pm 


Turb0-H@mster

It is also wrong where Vivek states:

“At the end of the day, better testing is always welcomed. But if that “better testing” is going to have guys popping for things that are present, yet unable to enhance performance, Is it a step up or a step down? In the case of Lamont Peterson, he asked for better testing. He requested VADA and due to remnants of a substance his doctor prescribed, he failed. Under traditional USADA rules, this would be viewed as a medical related occurrence, and a non-issue, as it would complete the medical need without enhancing performance (as evidenced in the “B” sample which actually came back clean). As long as it can be confirmed that this level doesn’t enhance performance, I can live with that.”

When actually:
Lamont Peterson didn`t “Fail” because of VADA testing. He failed because he the HAD taken synthetic testosterone and DIDN`T have a therapeutic exemption in place – and the CIR test busted him.
The USADA would simply never have caught that he had synthetic testosterone – and if somehow they did become aware they STILL need to see a therapeutic exemption.

This idea about medical need vs performance enhancing has to be a decision between the athletes medical professional (Medical need) and the testing authority (Performance enhancing). This is why you need a Prospective TUE.

Additional to this – with regards to hormones, many of the effects of which which are slow acting (e.g. muscle building), you can derive benefits from historic use past the point where your blood level has diminished to non performance enhancing – hence the reason it is taken in cycles and not continuously.

An athlete having ANY level of a synthetic banned substance in their blood is a cause for concern and further investigation, not simply if it is above a certain level at a certain time.

99% of the time they will have a good medical reason for it and a TUE- which they can share. If you are going to drop the TUE requirement for low levels of performance enhancers that is a licence to cheat.

Posted October 21, 2013 8:14 pm 


PEEJ

Adrien news flash before Pac fought Marfacheato Roach made a big stink because Margacheato was drinking coffee before the fight with Pac saying it was performance enhaning

Posted October 21, 2013 7:52 pm 


PEEJ

I’ve stated the same thing over and over. Arum is the one that rules Pacs boxing career. So him not agreeing to the test is because of Arum. I’ve never changed my stance unlike some of your theories. Fact is the fight was completely agreed apom in 2010 and Floyd asked for the random testing. They declined. It’s funny that the only thing holding the fight up was the drug testing until the last round of negotiations. Unfortunately Pac turned down his biggest career payday to fight and lose to Bradley. Not to mention Arum wanted to build a stadium which he has never done for any other fight before

Posted October 21, 2013 7:50 pm 


TARK

This pundit says.., “USADA parameters (allegedly) allow a 4:1 CIR (Carbon Isotope Ratio), and the standard Nevada based testing allows a 6:1 ratio; wherein the VADA testing allows none … To quantify this on a deeper level to make more sense, this means that under standard USADA and Nevada state based testing, the fighter can have either 4% or 6% – respectively – of a banned substance.”

That is a ridiculously bad misinterpretation of the language.

It doesn’t mean you can have 4 or 6% of any banned substance. It means you can have either 400% or 600% of the natural levels a normal functioning male has in his system—where VADA allows only 100% if this pundit’s information is correct. That is for one specific banned substance.

Current standards by WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) allows for testosterone levels (one specific PED of many) to reach a 4:1 ratio in testosterone to epitestosterone in a normal male athlete. The average for a normal functioning male is a 1:1 ratio, but WADA allows up to a 4:1 ratio without testing positive for elevated testosterone.

The standard is loose because natural ratios can be higher than 1:1. You want to be absolutely certain somebody is cheating when he tests positive. The state of Nevada allows up to a 6:1 ratio, but talk are continuing about changing that to the standard WADA rule of 4:1

Posted October 21, 2013 7:31 pm 


Fight Aficionado

“i found it interesting that when grilled about the amino acids he stopped. The next time he fought, he didn’t hurt a guy that we’ve seen hurt before and clearly it was by punchers who had less punching power. I didn’t say the guy was doping. I said that amino acids are inadmissible according to the collegiate scope and this could have been the culmination of him NOT using it.” – Vivek you don’t say he was cheating, you imply it. And Amino acids are NOT banned by the NCAA. You already know there’s fine print in the NCAA rules saying an outside person cannot give aminos or ginseng to athletes but they neither are banned nor should they be. You’ve been implying Matthysse’s Amino 4500 = drugging ever since he KTFO Mike Dallas. Apparently you have an agenda with him but not with Ward or Bhop. Why?

Posted October 21, 2013 7:31 pm 


Turb0-H@mster

To be clear also, Viveks logic for the USADA/WADA allowance of a 4:1 ration being because of previous, non performance enhancing prescriptions is also incorrect.

The WADA document….

The GUIDELINES for the REPORTING and MANAGEMENT OF ELEVATED T/E RATIOS and ENDOGENOUS ST3R01DS

states as the reasoning..

“To avoid unnecessary effort and analysis costs (for example for Samples from Athletes where naturally elevated values of endogenous steroids or T/E ratio have already been determined), the decision of whether or not to proceed with GC/C/IRMS analysis shall be made by the relevant Testing authority or WADA. ”

The pertinant words here being “Effort” and “Costs”.

In a professional boxing contest worth millions, this should not be an issue.
Perform CIR testing on ALL samples – this will show if the athlete has a naturally elevated level. If they have a TUE there is no issue.

I think the situation we have here, and Wards reluctance is because he either has no TUE, or he has a TUE for something he would rather not be made public.

Posted October 21, 2013 7:24 pm 


Fight Aficionado

Adrian and Turbo both make good points about Matthysse and the Amino 4500 thing. Vivek implies it’s a PED. Amino acids are not. And while they aren’t banned by the NCAA, USADA, USOC or any other governing body, he suggests Lucas couldn’t KO Garcia without Amino 4500. Totally absurd, and just a passive aggressive way to detract from the fact Ward and Bhop refused random out of comp testing.

Posted October 21, 2013 7:20 pm 


Fight Aficionado

Vivek makes a long winded excuse for Ward not doing VADA out of comp testing that boils down to Rodriguez not having it built into the contract. Ironic he defends Bhop and Ward not permitting testing but was the biggest advocate of it when the issue became Floyd’s main excuse for not fighting Pacquiao.

Posted October 21, 2013 7:13 pm 


Turb0-H@mster

The amino acid thing is a furphy too..

get rid of the *’s

h*t*tp://w*w*w.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129148/

Notice the advice given..

Overall, given these findings, consuming a small amount of protein and carbohydrate, either as a protein/carbohydrate energy drink or whole foods, before or after exercise training may be prudent behavior for many athletes.

Amino acids ARE proteins, a protein is just lots of amino acids stuck together. You can`t ban amino acids/protein or you have to ban food.

It`s actually quite distasteful to spend time and text dog whistling about something completely legal, which has been extensively studied on the basis that Matthysse couldn`t KO Danny Garcia.

Especially given the lack of voice on the matter from the large number of boxers who HAVE tested positive to things that are not legal.

Posted October 21, 2013 7:07 pm 


Boxe0

Pound for Pound worst boxing writer in the world.

Posted October 21, 2013 6:58 pm 


Turb0-H@mster

Vivek, you misunderstand the 4:1 and 6:1 rations – this isn`t to allow 4 or 6% of a substance in the blood.

Okay there are two substances made naturally in the body – Testosterone and Epitestosterone.

They tend to be made in similar amounts so you should see roughly the same amount of Testosterone and Epitestosterone. Some people might have double the Testosterone, and very few have 3 times the Testosterone. Noone should have more than four times as much or six times unless they have a medical reason to take synthetic testosterone.

So having weird ratios is a flag that “this is odd, lets do the more detailed testing”. This isn`t 4% of a drug it is 400% of the usual expected ratio!

The more detailed testing – the carbon isotope testing has nothing to do with the levels or ratios – this looks at the testosterone in the body, compares it to another substance in the body to see if the carbon isotopes match up. If they don’t the person is taking synthetic testosterone.

So to be clear – you can be cheating – taking synthetic testosterone and not be caught if your ratio doesn`t go above 4:1 because they won`t do the ACTUAL test that will catch you till that point.

So technically you could take both Epitestosterone as a masking agent AND testosterone, and not get pulled up by USADA if you manage it correctly.

So there is NO way that doing a CIR test can be a bad thing. It WILL detect synthetic testosterone whatever the level. If you have synthetic testosterone you should hold a therapeutic exemption however little is in your blood.

Your position that more isn`t better doesn`t hold here.

Yes I do know what I am talking about, I`ve got a degree in Biochemistry and pharmacology. From an actual university, not from wikipedia!!!!

Posted October 21, 2013 6:37 pm 


Adrian

Vivek also wrote “That is correct. They restrict the use of caffeine. Anything that can make u do more than you normally would, or more than a normal fighter should is illegal. That’s why people were suspect of Matthyssee when he would pop those amino acid pills literally while in the ring before they announced the fighters. Funny theory there is that he didn’t do it before Garcia, and he failed to land the KO, despite landing several flush shots. That was the FIRST TIME i began to really question his previous accomplishments in a way. I found that very thought provoking.”

Hahahahaha … Vivek Vivek Vivek … So you ” suspect “that Mathyse used way to much amino acids and caffeine and that’s why he was ko’g opponents ? ????lmao!!

You can sell that bs to old farts and people who never did any sports in their life’s …. Coffeine and amino acids will help you out with stamina and if you consume to much caffeine before the fight you could actualy lose power and make you weaker …
Lol find some other reason to suspect for boxer you want to go after because you just embarrassed yourself with that statement …

Posted October 21, 2013 6:21 pm 


Adrian

@Peej-so now you are saying the reason for mayweather vs PAC never happen is PAC refusal of testing right? Dude you keep changing your opinion in every article … You always said the reason was arum and mayweather will never fight PAC as long as he is managed by arum ..so now the reason for you is testing again because we are talking about testing right? Lol… Wich is it ? The refusal of testing (or I should say mayweathers ped accusation of PAC) or is it bob arum?

Posted October 21, 2013 6:02 pm 


Adrian

Vivek”Vivek Wallace

The more stringent testing has become, the worse Pacquiao has looked. That makes me wonder.”

Posted October 21, 2013 11:17 am

And you ca yourself objective writer…. Lol
You “wonder” about PAC all negative things you can “wonder” but when it ones to your “kind” of boxers you only ” know ” for a fact about them and u never “wonder” about them….

You lost Credibility with this article Vivek especially with this post above!

Posted October 21, 2013 5:49 pm 


PEEJ

Yeah, Pac fans and Floyd haters constantly say it was Floyd coming up with excuses when all Floyd asked for was random testing.

Posted October 21, 2013 5:30 pm 


te tumbo

Pacquiao* is the ONLY fighter in Boxing history to refuse to even negotiate the issue of Random and MUTUALLY-Applied testing to face his primary P4P rival Floyd Mayweather. he didn’t negotiate and sign a contract and then piss and moan about his “culture”, “religion”, and “phobias”. he cited ALL of those bogus excuses to avoid signing the contract, Period. his Pactarded* fanboys still can’t identify which one of Pacquiao’s* cowardly excuses was the truth or were they ALL nothing but Lies to avoid facing Mayweather? that’s been my conclusion all along. not that Pacquiao’s* dirty but that he’s always been afraid of having his PPV aura stripped from him by Mayweather, which is precisely what I’ve always predicted would happen if Punkuiao* ever grew the cojones to Step-Up to Floyd’s P4P challenge.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:59 pm 


te tumbo

improved testing is not universally mandated by the sanctioning bodies. this makes it a purely voluntary and negotiable item. if neither fighters requests it, so be it. if one fighter does want improved testing, it should be included in the mutually-approved contract that they both agree to sign. to make an issue of it after negotiations have ended and a contract has been mutually-approved is bush-league promotional antics. if I were Ward, I would play sheepish, coy, and evasive about the entire issue and convince Team Rodriguez that they indeed DID drop the ball in negotiations and have agreed to a matchup that Rodriguez can’t possibly win. why? that’s for them to lose sleep over. after all, they’re the ones who F’kd Up in the first place.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:54 pm 


maracho

So you want to fight man to man on face book hey.

Be careful what you wish for. ha ha ha

Posted October 21, 2013 4:50 pm 


nameless

Anonymous, you are on PED-at least caffeine-with all the comments you are making.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:32 pm 


Vivek Wallace

Fellas, i can’t possibly respond to each of you. I don’t have time. And after scanning through the rhetoric, im not sure who im even talking to, as many posters have the same name, yet are saying different things. Yank, you’re my guy, but if we are to finish this convo, it needs to be on FaceBook or the radio show. I can’t do this. Too much clutter and too many keyboard warriors who speak loud behind a bush, but in person are as quiet as can be. Not quite the way i like to engage in dialogue. I’m not here to change minds. But neither will i subject myself to the ignorance that m any want to try to push here to make my point. Have at it, fellas. Peace….

Posted October 21, 2013 4:25 pm 


Anonymous

Two different Anonymous here.

I’m finished posting for the time being so there should be no confusion.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:22 pm 


Anonymous

It should be a no contest. They probably haven’t got round to changing it to one yet for whatever reason.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:21 pm 


Anonymous

If boxers stopped doing 12 week camps and fought 4 or 5 times a year they would be stronger and need less pick me ups to get their weak muscles into fighting shape. how on earth can you be tip top fighting once or twice a year at the age of 25, 26? old school boxers fought every six weeks. their bodies were teak tough and they didn’t get the injuries associated with working wasted, unused and useless muscles into fighting shape once a year.
common sense: use it or lose it
pansies. all of them.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:19 pm 


Anonymous

the ped police is bang on.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:14 pm 


Anonymous

what a shame Pac didn’t get his day in court with Floyd. Floyd’s defence would have made sure Pac gave a sample and we would know one way or another if Pac was clean or as dirty as his myriad of tattoos suggested. shame.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:14 pm 


maracho

Ok so why wasnt the Jones fight considered a no contest?

I read where the Vlad Klitchko were accusing the Russian testers of trying the same hankypanky against him for the Povetkin fight

Posted October 21, 2013 4:12 pm 


give us a clue

Simple, make Olympic style drug testing mandatory in all 8,10 and 12 round fights.
Make it a 2 year complete ban for a first offence and a life ban for a second offence.
I would go as far as jailing these cheating b*st*rds if someone gets injured as a result of these cheating b*st*rds.

These guys need to be tested at the drop of a hat and not complain about it.

If I were Ward I would accept the the challenge and prove that he’s clean – no excuses!

Posted October 21, 2013 4:11 pm 


maracho

Yeah I just read that Matthysse took a common supplement called Amino Acid 4500, which doesnt appear to have anything illegal or amino acid derived PEDs about it.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:08 pm 


Anonymous

Just to be clear, that last comment was by a different Anonymous.

Nope, Jones has been stripped for testing positive for the second time. The WBA is based in Panama (Jones is obviously Panamanian), any hankypanky would’ve been strongly contested by them.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:06 pm 


maracho

I thought Guillermo Jones was cleared and that the Russians were up to hankypanky, especially since the Lebedev fight is still cited as a KO for Guillermo.

Posted October 21, 2013 4:03 pm 


Anonymous

ward jones bopkins ect ect pure ped users.

Posted October 21, 2013 3:58 pm 


Anonymous

Sorry meant to say conveniently, not convincingly

Posted October 21, 2013 3:56 pm 


Anonymous

Matthysse is suspect for taking amino acids? Bwahaha. How’s about you try getting punched low 22 times from a KO hitter like Garcia and see if that doesn’t sap your energy and power.

If you knew anything about boxing you’d know that’s exactly what getting whacked low repeatedly does and that it’s a tactic that many fighters deliberately employ to achieve just that. One of them being Bernard Hopkins who ever so convincingly enough was mentoring Danny all throughout the lead up to the fight and giving him advice on how to beat Matthysse. Those low blows Garcia landed weren’t little love taps.

Posted October 21, 2013 3:38 pm 


Anonymous

Panamanian Gulliermo Jones was just busted for taking PEDs AGAIN the other week, where’s your outrage at that? Is he not active? His punishment for damn near blinding Lebedev? Stripped of his title, a six month ban – which started after him beating Lebedev – for a fighter that fights once every two years and the chance to contest his old belt in an immediate rematch. That’s the second time he’s been busted for PEDs. The WBA who issued his punishment are based in Panama.

Posted October 21, 2013 3:33 pm 


Anonymous

And looky here just as I suspected you’re a massive fan of proven steroid cheat Roy Jones

‘Vivek W. (ESB): For starters, I don’t think any of us have to worry about seeing Roy Jones jr. in the ring again after witnessing the emotions of his family at ringside. As a huge fan of the sport and an even bigger fan of the man”

Posted October 21, 2013 3:26 pm 


Old Yank

Tomato Can — I completely forgot about the injury angle for Ward. WOW!

Don’t let ANYONE tell you that contract negotiations should never continue past a signed contract. Again, if something has been INADVERTENTLY left out then it is reasonable and appropropriate to re-open negotiations. If something was INTENTIONALLY left out, then the intentional party needs to insist that negotiations concluded when the contract was signed.

And I am a big fan of Ward. Long before he earned respect he was often abused and mischaracterized as “chinny” and powerless. I urged poeple to give him time and he’d prove himself. And he did.

It would be a shame that after earning the grudging respect of fans that he now avoid testing. This is one quick path to lose the fans it took so long to earn.

Posted October 21, 2013 3:06 pm 


Anonymous

these so called fighters today, dont need trainers they need a pharmacist.

Posted October 21, 2013 2:47 pm 


Old Yank

VIVEK — Ever hear of the ADAMS System (Anti-Doping Administration and Management System)? It is a global “clearing house” for data base management for international testing. Sending an athlete from Spain to Japan does not mean that his required random testing gets suspended because he’s outside of his homeland national jurisdiction of Spain. He can be tested in Japan and the data sent to any number of international labs for testing. The results are then placed in the ADAMS System.

Again, there is no LAW or nation’s “code” that requires athletes to be tested “ONLY” in a specific country; like their home country. If UNDER AGREEMENT they are subject to a testing protocol, the protocol follows them to any country where they agreed to be subjected to the protocol.

Now we can declare: End of discussion!

Posted October 21, 2013 2:45 pm 


srminimo

Rodriguez bringing up the testing on the presser was kind of a dck move. But it’s weird that Rodriguez is now working with Conte, who used to work for Ward, and suddenly he wants testing… If anybody knows what Ward took is Conte. And if anybody knows how to cheat is Conte as well. If Rodriguez is just trying to get Ward angry, he might not want the result very much. He might just make the beat down even worse.

Posted October 21, 2013 2:39 pm 


john

look at the ANOY list of known drug cheats. as the saying goes just the tip of , you got it.

Posted October 21, 2013 2:29 pm 


Tomato Can

Old Yank, I’m in agreement with you. In Ward’s case, he’s coming off of an injury, so there’s no telling what he’s been taking to speed up his recovery, as well as any other benifits that go along with it…

Posted October 21, 2013 2:25 pm 


Old Yank

Tomato Can — Testing contractually omitted by a champion in today’s epidemic environment? Sorry, but I’m done giving the benefit of the doubt to any athelete anymore.

I fully agree with your sense that this SHOULD have been in the contract. And although not the norm, post contract negotiations happen more often than we realize.

Had the contract inadvertently left out the ring size and glove weight, a post-contract negotiation would be in order.

If a contract INADVERTENTLY left out testing then perhaps a post-contract negotiation would be in order.

However, if a contract INTENTIONALLY left testing out, then post-contract negotiations will be avoided at all costs.

Posted October 21, 2013 2:15 pm 


Tomato Can

These guys should be trying to get the fullest drug testing possible, and all fighters should agree to just that, but no one should expect any contractoral change after the signing has been completed, that’s just dumb.

Posted October 21, 2013 1:59 pm 


Old Yank

terror tim — YOU NAILED IT!

Posted October 21, 2013 1:59 pm 


Old Yank

VIVEK — I have re-read your posts and will re-post your nonsense one piece at a time if necessary:

“But in boxing, if you’re competing in America, you have to follow the American code.”

NONSENSE! The only “code” you must follow in America is what is dictated by a state’s commission. Any and all “additional” testing can be done via any protocol agreed to by parties to a contract (boxing parties or other). For example the NFL and MLB had their own testing protocols designed specifically for them and then they took it out to bid INTERNAIONALLY. Yes it’s true that US testing administrators won the bid. And interestingly enough, a lab in Montreal is used as one of the testing sites MLB – the last I checked Canada and the USA are different countries. NO LAW required the specialized testing to follow ANY “American code.” The ONLY code NFL and MLB testing must follow is the scientific protocol and their rules for “random” testing. The same would be true of boxers doing private testing. The notion that some “American code” must be followed in America is nonsense. You totally just made that crap up!

In a private contract a testing protocol invented on Mars could theoretically be used in America!

Posted October 21, 2013 1:57 pm 


maracho

Vivic You insisted that a fighter must be tested by an institution based in which ever country the fight is taking place and that USADA must blood test all fighters fighting in the US,

This is wrong in two parts because.

We seen that USADA is headquartered in Colorado Springs and responsible for implementation of the World Anti-Doping Code for the United States athletes at home and abroad.

Plus, so far USADA only has jurisdiction over US pro boxers who agree to their blood tests in their contract. They dont have to abide by USADA

Posted October 21, 2013 1:55 pm 


maracho

Vivic, why would he suddenly quit taking amino acids if they are indeed helping him and not banned in boxing?

On the other hand some amino acid supplements are concentrated enough to make a darn good beta blocker, which is banned so you might be on to something

Posted October 21, 2013 1:43 pm 


terror tim

Any talk of testing after contracts have been signed is just mind games. The real issue is why isn’t it just standard? Same with all sports. The players don’t really want it and the governing body likes the freakishly good athletes as well. Every professional sporting body should have a testing system in place that is at bare minimum like the Olympics.

Posted October 21, 2013 1:38 pm 


Vivek Wallace

Maracho – China has CHINADA. Im totally confused with your point. USADA is an international federation that test its athletes to make sure they comply with WADA. And OLD YANK, again, re-read my post. Because i think you’re answering a totally different question my man.

Posted October 21, 2013 1:33 pm 


Old Yank

VIVEK — Mayweather and Pacquiao were FREE to hire a mutually agreed testing contractor and were free to have that contractor do testing in one country, two countries or every country each fighter visited no matter the number.

From a PRACTICAL standpoint “Olympic-style” testing was available in each country — testing that met country-specific Olympic standards. However, also from a practical standpoint, neither athlete trusted the other nation’s ability to be free from corruption. Therefore from a practical standpoint dual-nation (or multi-nation) testing was not PRACTICAL. It had NOTHING to do with any LAW. NOTHING!

No matter what, the fighters were going to be subjected to worthless urine testing immediately before or immediately after the bout by a sanctioning body (administered by an athletic commission).

TRUTH: It is easier to use an existing and time-tested protocol than it is to reinvent your own. It is hard to have trust in a corrupt business. Nation’s do not dictate or regulate non-standard testing protocols that have been mutually agreed to by private parties in a contract!

Posted October 21, 2013 1:32 pm 


Vivek Wallace

Anonymous – i don’t know what your point is, but bottomline, those men were caught cheating and WE DIDNT KNOW IT UNTIL THEY WERE CAUGHT. I pointed out the situation with Matthyssee bcuz i found it interesting that when grilled about the amino acids he stopped. The next time he fought, he didn’t hurt a guy that we’ve seen hurt before and clearly it was by punchers who had less punching power. I didn’t say the guy was doping. I said that amino acids are inadmissible according to the collegiate scope and this could have been the culmination of him NOT using it. I didn’t think of it that way until many started talking about his energy level late in that fight and how it “wasn’t the same”. “Neither was his power”. I found those quotes very interesting. This amino acid debate could lie at the center of it all.

Posted October 21, 2013 1:22 pm 


maracho

Floyd asked for Olympic style testing and for your information USADA did the testing for U.S. athletes “in China” and didnt catch one cheat. Imagine that. oh and imagine this, USADA was created by the USOC to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest in handling doping cases involving its own athlete. WOW!

jamaica-star.com/thestar/20080927/sports/sports9.html

Posted October 21, 2013 1:18 pm 


Old Yank

VIVEK – NONSENSE!!

I don’t need third-hand info from Fight Hype through you. I have consulted directly with USADA and several other organizations that provide contract testing. You are misinformed!

In order to take “medical samples” (draw blood, etc.) are procedures and personnel training regulated within a national, state or local jurisdiction? OF FRIGGIN’ COURSE they are– you can’t hire an untrained dog catcher to take blood samples! Regulations require samples be taken by trained personnel and training with its associated procedures are subject to national, state and even local regulations.

But the STRUCTURE/PROTOCOL of the test (what is to be tested for and the frequency of testing, etc.), is virtually free to be “invented” by whomever is contracting for the testing protocol. For example, a specific testing protocol was designed for Bill Gate’s security detail. It is PRIVATE testing that every employee of the security organization is randomly subjected to. Boxing and individual boxers could also have their own private protocol for each championship bout developed and designed for whatever and whenever a champion’s contract required it. No nation is dictating to Bill Gates or any other private contractor (including pro boxing) what the design protocol of substance testing must be.

YOU ARE MISINFORMED!

Posted October 21, 2013 1:15 pm 


maracho

Vivic thats equally crazy double standard talk because pro boxers dont have to do blood tests with anyone. They just have to provide urine.

Again Manny asked for WADA, which tests internationally and is over USADA

Posted October 21, 2013 12:55 pm 


Vivek Wallace

It comes down to which location the fighters are testing in. I think the mix up here is that im talking about boxers. You’re prob talking about other athletes. I can understand that angle about other athletes. But in boxing, if you’re competing in America, you have to follow the American code. Freddie Roach even stated this —– WTF are you talking about Yank??? You can’t test in another country and fight here. That was the whole issue with Pacquiao and company. They wanted to test there and fight in America. You have to be tested through USADA in America if you are competing in America.

Posted October 21, 2013 12:44 pm 


maracho

vlvic, thats like saying that WADA demanded China to do all the testing for all of the athletes that performed in the Beijing Olympics?
So Please elaborate, especially since Floyd seems to be a god to many in this thread.

Posted October 21, 2013 12:36 pm 


Anonymous

You do a really poor job of disguising your racial agenda Vivek. Really poor. But hey, that’s Floyd fans in a nutshell for you. Now Matthysse is juicing???

Here’s a list of PROVEN drug cheats. I wonder how many of them you or any of you Floyd fans have waged vendettas against.

James Toney
Roy Jones Jr.
Antonio Tarver
Shane Mosley
Ricardo Mayorga
Evander Holyfield
Joan Guzmán
Lamont Peterson
Andre Berto
Mickey Bey
J’Leon Love
Livingstone Bramble
Aryon Pryor
Shannon Briggs
Vince Philips
Monte Barrett
Jameel McCline
Guillermo Jones [recently busted again after damn near killing Lebedev]
Virgil Hill
Ismayl Sillakh
Ali Funeka
Richard Hall
Lenroy Thompson
Dillian Whyte
Larry Olubamiwo

Posted October 21, 2013 12:33 pm 


Old Yank

VIVEK — NO! They do NOT restrict caffiene. READ IT AGAIN from the USADA (note the word “EXCEPT”):

“All stimulants and their optical isomers (d, l) are prohibited EXCEPT [caps added for emphasis] for …caffeine, nicotine…”

Posted October 21, 2013 12:30 pm 


Old Yank

VIVEK — The following comment is UTTER BULL CRAP:

“You can ONLY test with the code enforced by the country you’re competing in. End of discussion.”

Vivek, where the hell did you come up with this load of BS?

If an AMATEUR athlete from a specific nation wants to maintain eligibility to compete in most global events he must subject him/herself to testing that is sanctioned by that nation’s amateur organization (typically sub-sanctioned by the World Olympic Committee). But we are NOT talking about amateur athletes here! We are talking about professional boxing. Stop the BS!

Pros are NOT required to exclusively submit to a nation’s amateur testing code — you are talking UTTER BULL CRAP!

Posted October 21, 2013 12:27 pm 


Public Enemy

At the beginning of Round 1 they’d always pop one of those loaded Peppers into his mouth.. I always found it odd but once you see some of these guys will drink their own dirty Piss you cannot doubt what is being done to cheat.

Posted October 21, 2013 12:23 pm 


Public Enemy

Chavez Sr. would always have a Super Hot Jalepeno at the start of his fights because it acted like a stimulant.. don’t believe me? go watch some of his fights. Anything can be used to give a fighter a boost in energy.

Posted October 21, 2013 12:21 pm 


Vivek Wallace

That is correct. They restrict the use of caffeine. Anything that can make u do more than you normally would, or more than a normal fighter should is illegal. That’s why people were suspect of Matthyssee when he would pop those amino acid pills literally while in the ring before they announced the fighters. Funny theory there is that he didn’t do it before Garcia, and he failed to land the KO, despite landing several flush shots. That was the FIRST TIME i began to really question his previous accomplishments in a way. I found that very thought provoking.

Posted October 21, 2013 12:17 pm 


Old Yank

From USADA (see below):

“All stimulants and their optical isomers (d, l) are prohibited except for …caffeine, nicotine…”

Posted October 21, 2013 12:16 pm 


Old Yank

FROM USADA (note how caffeine is handled — see the last entry):

“S6. Stimulants

All stimulants and their optical isomers (d, l) are prohibited except for imidazole derivatives for topical use, and those stimulants on the 2012 Monitoring Program (buproprion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine).

Advisory:

•Athletes diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) who are taking stimulants and competing should obtain a TUE for their medication. Athletes who are not competing do not need to obtain a TUE in order to use these medications.

•Athletes diagnosed with narcolepsy, and prescribed medications that contain modafinil or armodafinil, for example, should obtain a TUE if they need to take these medications just prior to or during competition.

•Pseudoephedrine is an ingredient in several over-the-counter cold and flu medications. WADA has issued an advisory to athletes that they should discontinue taking medications containing pseudoephedrine AT LEAST 24 hours prior to the time defined as “in-competition.” However, in some cases this may not be enough time for the substance to clear from the body, especially if the product is a slow-release product. USADA recommends avoiding pseudoephedrine-containing cold and flu products for several days in advance of competition.

•Nicotine and caffeine are not prohibited but they are part of the WADA monitoring program.”

Posted October 21, 2013 12:07 pm 


Old Yank

NONSENSE! Fighters are free to “invent” their own testing protocols if they want and ample choice exists in the marketplace for the administration and evaluation of the tests. The current state of affairs is a reluctance to “invent” a specific protocol because a fighter need not re-invent the wheel. However, specific protocols are contracted all the time in specialized testing — it is but one service organizations like USADA and others offer for a price – it is a service marketed by these organizations via their consulting arms. The ignorance that is repeatedly displayed on this topic is stunning!

Posted October 21, 2013 12:04 pm 


maracho

So the Olympic committee doesnt ban caffeine but rather restricts it

Posted October 21, 2013 12:01 pm 


maracho

Up to 12ug caffeine per milliliter of urine before it is illegal.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:59 am 


Vivek Wallace

Maracho, he wanted to do WADA bcuz WADA would allow him to use the Filipino version of USADA in his country. We know that Pac is a god over there and would NEVER admit if the test came out dirty. WADA’s rule is that any athlete competing in a country has to take the testing in that country. If he isn’t fighting FMW in the Philippines, he can’t use their testing. That’s a global law. You can ONLY test with the code enforced by the country you’re competing in. End of discussion.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:51 am 


Vivek Wallace

MP, what testing has Pacquiao agreed to EVER???? That’s my point. Listen, im not into “keyboard wars”. If you wanna speak and have a sensible discussion, im live on air EVERY TUESDAY NIGHT from 9ET/6PT thru 11ET/8PT. Call in like all the other fight fans and raise your point. I’d be glad to kick it around a little. I sincerely mean that.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:48 am 


maracho

Vivic, Pacman didnt say he would never do any blood testing. In fact, he wanted to test with WADA but Floyd insisted against WADA

Posted October 21, 2013 11:47 am 


MP

Keep parroting your Flomo spin. You’re being big hypocrite here and you know it. You’d be all over Pac and hammering Ward if there roles were reversed and you know you would. Ward claims he’s a big advocate and proponent of doing the testing I’m talking about but he won’t ever do it. You work it out Einstein.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:45 am 


badger

agree with the author that Ruslan has more skill than people give him credit for and what is wrong with being a former ESPN boxer??

Posted October 21, 2013 11:41 am 


Old Yank

The USADA web site claims that it monitors nicotine and caffiene but does not ban them.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:41 am 


Vivek Wallace

MP: USADA IS BETTER TESTINT! It wasn’t implemented before. They were only using state based testing which typically allows around 6% of the substance in the body of an athlete before flags were raised. USADA and WADA view 4% as the legal threshold, saying anything ABOVE that amount is performance enhancing. USADA/WADA allow 4% thresholds. VADA allow none. But if a doctor prescribes a low level of something (like was the case with Peterson) and it’s enough to perform the medical work, but not enough to enhance performance, why does that matter? My issue with Pac was that he didn’t want to take ANYTHING but NSAC which is the easiest to fool.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:39 am 


Anonymous

He’s given us ample reasons to question whether he’s clean but he’s done nothing to dispel them other than to move his lips.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:39 am 


Old Yank

Championship bouts without “outside” testing are simply bouts without adequate testing. Simple! A champion is either part of the clean-up solution or he’s part of the epidemic problem. Pick a side! Simple!

Posted October 21, 2013 11:37 am 


maracho

I believe that the Olympics only allows a certain amount of caffeine not sure about pros

Posted October 21, 2013 11:35 am 


MP

A post someone else wrote about this. This was written on the eve of Ward-Froch but now Ward’s wriggled out of dong it yet again.

When Ward had the surprising win over Kessler, a lot of people wondered how much Conte’s involvement had to do with it. In response to people asking whether or not he was using illegal substances, Ward said he wanted better testing and would push for it for his fight with Allen Green. This seemed to stop people asking questions and even had retards proclaiming…

But of course, the Green fight came and went and not a test was taken (other than the same ones everyone else takes, which are s**t).

About 6 months ago the subject came up again. This time Ward again deflected the questions about him working a with a convicted drugs cheat by saying that he wanted full Olympic-style testing for his fight with Froch, and that if Froch wasn’t willing to do it, Ward would even do it himself to prove a point.

And now the fight is here and surprise, surprise, it was all complete b**lcks. Let’s also remember that Abraham actually does have a much higher standard of testing for his German fights, so if Ward was looking for a dance partner in his crusade, he had one right there and yet chose to stick with the regular testing procedures.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:34 am 


Old Yank

Prior win/loss sub-plots? Use them to pick a bout? Why not simply pick the better fighter?

Posted October 21, 2013 11:34 am 


maracho

Actually, a better way to look at it is dont let drug testing cartels get in the way of a big money and big legacy fight like Froids Maywether did but then it dont hurt to use it for lots of leverage after the fight is made.

On the other hand with all these fighters working with convicted PED dealers, why not take the testS- as in plural-because as we seen what the Russian tests tried to do against Guillermo Jones and possibly Klitchko

Posted October 21, 2013 11:32 am 


Old Yank

FYI: caffeine is monitored but not banned (no matter the dosage)

Posted October 21, 2013 11:29 am 


maracho

Oh and now that Rodriguez is with both Conte and Haymon we should expect even more fireworks for this already interesting fight

Posted October 21, 2013 11:22 am 


demigawd

I wasn’t following the Ward/Rodriguez negotiations closely enough to have an informed opinion, but I agree with Vivek that if you can’t get your way before the contract is signed, don’t try to media negotiate after it is signed. That being said, there are legitimate questions about whether Rodriguez brought the topic up during negotiations and why Ward would have turned it down. You would figure it would be as easy a point to agree on as deciding on a glove type, especially given Wards outspokenness about it.

My best guess is that Ward is like Hopkins both in and out the ring, and wants everything his way in his terms as a means of asserting control. I suspect he’s also a cheapskate and refused to foot the bill despite having a significantly larger purse. That type of attitude will hurt him in the long run, but he got away with it with Rodriguez.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:18 am 


Vivek Wallace

The more stringent testing has become, the worse Pacquiao has looked. That makes me wonder.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:17 am 


Vivek Wallace

MP, im not going to argue with you my man. If he said he won’t test AT ALL, i’d be with you. That’s what Pacquiao did. He didn’t say he won’t test at all. He said he won’t do VADA testing because he has done USADA his entire boxing career as an amateur. I listed reasons why i could support that stance. At the end of the day, Conte runs VADA, and he will try to make it sound and seem to be the “ultimate authority”. But until NSAC, WADA, and other reputable agencies sign off on it, i don’t think there’s a whole lot to question. The most reputable ones are the ones Ward agreed to in the past. Which one has Pacquiao agreed to? (during that infamous “i won’t take a test” stretch) That’s my prob with his position. NO OTHER FIGHTER HAS FLAT OUT REFUSED TESTING. NONE!!!!

Posted October 21, 2013 11:16 am 


MP

Ward has given us many reasons to question whether he’s clean or not and people like you ignore these red flags because it doesn’t fit with your agenda.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:15 am 


mp

Rodriguez would’ve likely been told to take hike if he’d requested it during negotiations.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:13 am 


MP

test

Posted October 21, 2013 11:12 am 


MP

“I think it is [necessary for boxing]. I would welcome it. I think it’s great. That way there is no confusion about who’s playing on an even playing field. This is a dangerous sport. You hear whispers about guys, what they’re doing and not doing. You have to figure out who’s going to pay for it, but once we get past that – I think it should be something that’s implemented in every big fight,” Ward said.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:04 am 


MP

“I think Floyd is on to something. That’s kind of a reoccurring theme right now, the fact that everybody is saying that all fighters should take the tests. It’s not only great for the fans and people to know, but you’re talking about people’s lives…I wanted to take things a step further and implement it, not just talk about it, and be one of the first to actually do it outside of Floyd Mayweather

Posted October 21, 2013 11:04 am 


MP

This is at at least the third or fourth time Ward has wriggled out of doing VADA testing. He’s says he’s all for it but when push comes to shove and he’s been asked to actually do it he’s found a way to wriggle out of it every single time.

Ward has also lied about him not working with Conte when quizzed about it on one occasion and his team have also been dishonest about the testing he was doing too.

Vivek you’re a complete hypocrite and it doesn’t take a genius to work out why you’re making excuses for Ward.

Posted October 21, 2013 11:02 am 


Boxing Barlow

demigawd – here here

Posted October 21, 2013 10:54 am 


Vivek Wallace

Two quick points: I did not say Rodriguez DOESNT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK FOR TESTING. My only point is that he needed to do it during the negotiations. He didn’t. So that’s his loss. FMW asked for them UP FRONT. That’s why i can respect that position. He wouldn’t sign UNLESS they were agreed to. Why Pascal and Rodriguez signed first and asked second isn’t good for the position they hold and it only hurt them. Ward didn’t refuse testing. He refused VADA testing after the bout was signed. Second point, I didn’t see this video prior to writing the article. It wasn’t a video selection of mine. Either way, i don’t have an issue with his position. I just think he should have made it known DURING negotiations. Not after.

Posted October 21, 2013 10:52 am 


demigawd

Eric – no, I haven’t noticed that at all. I see more people talk about noticing that “certain people have a problem with eastern europeans ascending the rankings” than I see anybody of any particular ethnicity actually express having a problem with eastern Europeans. Every fighter in the sport has both fanboys and haters. I don’t see anything unusual about the amount of hate eastern euro fighters get whatsoever. I do, however, see a disturbing number of posts from their supporters attempting to make race an issue. And I don’t understand why.

But you’re welcome to prove me wrong. Please don’t be coy. Cite names, posts, and proof that they are not “light-skinned”.

Posted October 21, 2013 10:49 am 


eric

Has anyone noticed the russians, ruslan pov.. sergey kovlev, and 3 G, are bring n back the glory days and fighting, like marvin hagler, roberto duran type fights and now a certain segement of the population has a issue it. It not light skined people with the problem, hmmmmmmm?

Posted October 21, 2013 10:31 am 


CurlyQ.Howard

Testing is critically important, but it must be agreed to before contracts are signed. Must.

Posted October 21, 2013 10:31 am 


PUNCHKEY

No he was saying mama,mama I’m a
Champion I become a champion today.
It’s so nice to speak Russian :)

Posted October 21, 2013 10:31 am 


Putin

Mickey Garcia needs to take on the Russian.

Posted October 21, 2013 10:10 am 


demigawd

Vivek – my only point of disagreement regarding Alvarado/Provo is that I believe Provo will fight Rios next, whether Rios wins or loses his next fight. Remember, Provo’s entire team is Wild Card, and their loyalty is to Pacquiao first. It would just be too logistically difficult to arrange.

Rios/Provo, on the other hand, will sell no matter what. Great action fights aren’t about things like who won or who lost their last fight. Look no further than Gatti-Ward for that.

My prediction is that Pac will beat Rios and go on to rematch Bradley, and Rios will go on to face Provo, perhaps even on the Pac/Bradley undercard to help supplement Bradley’s lack of drawing power and replicate GBPs successful PPV card formula.

Posted October 21, 2013 9:49 am 


DMX

Higaldo
A pin that I roll in salt and stick down your “Japs Eye”

Posted October 21, 2013 9:38 am 


Whocares

Mr. Wallace, you are a hypocrite, and your writing is horrible. I know you are trying to sounds sophisticated, but stop using a million words to say something, just say it. Oh, wait a minute, never mind, that’s how you are trying to sell your bull$#it…

Posted October 21, 2013 9:28 am 


Anonymous

this is getting serious now fight fans, there thinking of doing real drug tests in america.

Posted October 21, 2013 9:23 am 


Boxing Barlow

The fact that he can take a shot is his major strength but a fighter such as Pacman would give him a real beat down. I’m talking similar to the way Calzaghe beat Lacey up.

Posted October 21, 2013 9:16 am 


Boxing Barlow

I love to watch Provodnikov’s style and will be switching onto all of his fights in the future without doubt! But he looks very beatable to me. In the first half of the fight he was just eating up Alvarado’s shots and he uses his chin to block shots! A fighter with a better brain, footwork and chin will smash Provodnikov to pieces.

Posted October 21, 2013 9:15 am 


Manny

Was it me or was Provo yelling after the match Mama, Mama, Mama !!

Posted October 21, 2013 8:59 am 


Manny

Provos mom gave that same look in the picture.

Posted October 21, 2013 8:59 am 


Hidalgo

BTW, I can’t see Arum letting Bradley fight anyone else but a TR fighter until his contract expires.

Posted October 21, 2013 8:43 am 


Hidalgo

“Why does Ruslan Provodnikovs big fat head look like his distorted reflection on the back of a spoon?”

Same reason yours looks like the head of a pin.

Posted October 21, 2013 8:36 am 


Hidalgo

The testing issue probably was brought up during the negotiations and that’s probably one of the main reasons why the negotiations were so “grueling.”

So, Rodriguez embraced that issue and discussion after negotiations were completed and the contract was signed, using the press and media to coerce Ward into taking the VADA testing.

But because testing was not part of the terms of their contract, Ward could “legitimately” say he’s didn’t want to test for that specific reason.

Regardless, Ward is in for a little surprise. Rodriguez will be Ward’s greatest test since the super six tournament. Yeah, that includes Carl Froch.

Posted October 21, 2013 8:34 am 


Hidalgo

Vivek, I’m not understanding your argument. You said, “I’ve heard this issue raised only by the media.”

Yet, right in the middle of your article is a video in which Edwin Rodriguez, regarding the VADA testing, is seen and heard to say, “My question is, is Andre Ward willing to do that to?”

So exactly what issue is it that you claim you heard only the media raise?

Posted October 21, 2013 8:22 am 


Haimat

Vivek is a biased boxing scribe who daily published articles insinuating that Manny Pacquiao was doing PEDs during several years. When voices now are being raised that Ward, Hopkins, peterson and who not should be tested, all of a sudden this is not an issue. Why should Ward be tested for PEDs? Beats me? At least he’s not Philippino..

Vivek Wallace has no credibility at all on the matter.

Posted October 21, 2013 8:07 am 


DMX

Why does Ruslan Provodnikovs big fat head look like his distorted reflection on the back of a spoon?

Posted October 21, 2013 7:21 am 


WHAT!?!

SO on the drug front the names dropped are Ward, Hopkins, Petersen, and we all know the Mayweather camp is rife with drugs. Anyone seeing a pattern here, all these guys have something in common.

Posted October 21, 2013 7:14 am 


Adrian

What’s good for mayweather it can’t be for others … To me testing it’s not an issue at all because i know they all use them not only in boxing but sir Vivek ,do you know how many articles you wrote about PAC and his refusal of mayweather testing demands ?so I am wondering how this now is a none issue for you? You wanted a clean sport right?

Posted October 21, 2013 6:48 am 



Leave a comment on

Left-Hook Lounge Mailbag: Provodnikov’s Stunning Performance, Ward’s Steroid Testing Position, & What’s Next for Provodnikov & Bradley!!!









Back To Top

Close this window.

0.232