Tark you keep putting yourself in holes trying to say who is all time great and who isn’t. I lost a lot of respect whe you said Tarver was an all time great. I have barely any now you say Donaire is an all time greatPosted November 15, 2013 11:18 pm
That’s why you need to credit non-snorters for whom winning is the deal.
Lombardi.., “Winning isn’t the most important thing.. It’s the only thing.”Posted November 14, 2013 2:43 am
Tark – I hear you but it works if one takes care of their bodies in between fights eg snorters like ODH, Sweetpea, SRL, Iron Mike etc don’t last that long.Posted November 14, 2013 1:56 am
So what if Darchinyan was 37????
With the advances in nutrition.. sports medicine.. cardio conditioning.. and strength training — athletes are going longer and longer.
Floyd is going to be 37 in his next fight.. If he gets beat every Floyd hater in the universe is going to jump down his throat and scream bloody murder that he’s a fraud.. They’re not going to say, “Well.. Let’s excuse him.. He’s an old man.” Floyd is the best fighter on the planet and 37 is just a number. 38 will be another number. Those numbers were important for Ali.. for Morales.. For Frazier.. For Robinson.. For Louis.. For Johnson..
Vitali Klitschko made a comeback at 37 and is now 42.. He hasn’t lost a fight in that span.. Eder Jofre came back at 37 and won about 25 fights in a row.
37 doesn’t signal the end… Sergio Martinez is 38… Adonis Stevenson has got to be going on 37… Marquez is 40 years old… Wladimir Klitschko is in his 10th straight year as Heavyweight Champion, and is 37 years old, soon to be 38… Nobody not named Klitschko would be favored over him … Thirty seven is not a death knell these days.Posted November 13, 2013 10:24 pm
Oh, btw TARK, Nishioka wasn’t quite yet 37 yrs old but.. Darchiyan is. THIRTY SEVEN yrs TEN months and FIVE days, to be exact. LOL!! Later!Posted November 13, 2013 11:13 am
Ooops! typo, should read, ‘I have no qualms with that’Posted November 13, 2013 9:59 am
TARK Yes, you’re right, Nishioka wasn’t 37yrs old, he was “only” thirty six yrs & 5 months old, my bad (as if that make a difference in my argument LOL!) btw.. Now that you’re knit knit picking again, NO, Nonito didn’t win 4 titles, he won three. Please don’t tell me that you’re gonna give him credit for winning an INTERIM title (115Lbs) too!! In these watered down ‘four titles to pick from’ days?? INTERIM title?? Please say it anit so TARK! INTERIM TITLES??!! And you say that you’re not trying to win any argument?? INTERIM TILES?? Oh well… In reference to your, “What does Donaire have to do to please you?” comment, ahhh…. Well, he deserves his props for what he has accomplished and have qualms with that, but as for me considering him an ALL TIME GREAT??? You gotta be joking. Let him get in line and prove that, if he still can. ALL TIME GREATS are basically HOFérs or worthy of the same. So, according to your assessment he’s ALREADY HOF worthy?? Inquiring minds would like to know. Peace!Posted November 13, 2013 9:02 am
Donaire is nothing but an overrated hypejob. He just beat opponents that were over the hill or too small. There is nothing special about him at all and it clearly showed in the Rigo fight! I never understood the hype about Donaire, he should not even be close to a p4p list!Posted November 13, 2013 3:24 am
Tark – I thaught u were old skool. How hard can it be to get several titles in different divisions in this alphabet soup eraPosted November 13, 2013 2:05 am
EZ E.., It OK that you don’t agree with me—I’m fine with it… Anyone can rip anyone’s career because they have 2 losses in many, many years. I don’t know what Donaire has to do to please you.
Ali had 5 losses and I could rip 4 of the guys who beat him… Robinson had a ton of losses and I could rip his championship career. Especially losing to Ralph Jones who was coming off 5 straight losses—and losing to Joey Maxim who was a feather puncher, slow, and lost a bunch of fights… Ray refused to rematch either fighter
You see…anybody can knock any great fighter… People even rip Floyd.
Donaire is an ATG for fighters who won World Championships in every single weight division from flyweight through super-bantamweight..
That’s 4 divisions. Nishioka was a reigning world champion who hadn’t been beaten for many years. I don’t see “Thousands” of boxers with Donaire’s accomplishments. I don’t see 10 guys from 112 to 122.
BTW, Nishioka was 36 not 37…you fudged on his age… He was younger than Floyd was for Canelo… I’m not trying to win an argument—we just see it differently.Posted November 13, 2013 12:17 am
I must agree with you re your assessments for ATG status.
TARK has questioned the worth of fighters of the calibre of SUGAR RAY ROBINSON, MARVELOUS MARVIN HAGLER, THOMAS HEARNS and MUHAMMAD ALI who are all consensus calls as solid nominees to the top spot in the PANTHEON of BOXING LEGENDS, yet he gives passes to COTTO and FLASH who I have always said was wreckless since moving up from 140 and in FLASH too zealous and prone to making mistakes in attempting to bomb out his foes in his last 3/4 bouts (not including RIGO)….
COTTO was lucky to get the nod over B grade fighter JOSHUA CLOTTEY….Posted November 12, 2013 5:11 pm
there is no easy fight in boxing period.Posted November 12, 2013 3:49 pm
there is no easy fight in boxing periodPosted November 12, 2013 3:39 pm
Beating 2 good fighters in your whole career means nothing. He was so much bigger than Montiel. That fight should of not even been made. But I give him credit for Vic and Montiel. That is it though.Posted November 12, 2013 2:48 pm
TARK Okay, according to you Nonito is an ALL TIME GREAT. So, I imagine that you have an exceptionally long ALL TIME GREATS list in boxing. If Donaire is already an ATG then literally thousands of other fighters should qualify for such a prestigious accolade on your list as well, especially when Nonito is still active and hasn’t closed out his career on nothing close to a “prestigious” note if he chooses to retire today. ATGreatness?? Did his wins over Vic and Montiel ‘seal the deal”? Was that enough for you??
Okay, let’s review his last fights 7 fights: 1) Super FLYWEIGHT OMAR Narvaez is the lightest hitter in boxing. Yes he fought a totally defensive fight but Nonito didn’t exactly look like a tiger going after him. Narvaez was NO offensive threat whatsoever and Nonito looked too tentative at times and even frustrated. All the HBO blame was put on the Argentinian for a this NON-fight, a true STINKER!
2) Wilfredo Vazquez Jr, who had NO amateur experience nor any distinguishing wins of any kind, was coming off a KO loss to aging Jorge “Travieso” Arce. Yes, Nonito did rock him a few times but you can’t say that Jr ran all night from Donaire a la Narvaez. Vazquez Jr did find Nonito kind’a EZ to hit himself, enough to convince one of the officials to cast his vote for him, a rather off 115-112. The fight was packed with NO thrills and few good moments. What has Vazquez Jr done since besides losing to an unknown C level fighter? Nothing! That’s my point. Let’s continue..
3) Jeffrey Mathebula: Another ho-hum affair that the telecast crew tried hard to convince the viewers to believe otherwise. Once AGAINl, to “protect” Nonito’s “NOTORIOUS FLASH MURDEROUS” reputation the blame was put on Mathebula, of course. Next?
4) Toshiaki Nishioka: In HBO’s attempt revamp Nonito’s “FLASH” reputation they convinced Nishioka to come out of retirement, making the fading 37 yr old a Mafia-style “offer he can’t refu$e”, and once again a STINKER that you considered Nonito’s most brilliant boxing performances in Nonito’s defense. I’m sure you’re alone in that assessment as well and never would convince any jury to agree.
5) Is there any doubt that “El Travieso” Arce was a aged and spent fighter and ready for retirement? Even most ALL of the always nationalistically prideful Mexican boxing blogs and sites said that Arce’s chances of victory were SLIM & NONE! Most practical and level headed fans called it as it was, a decent win. HBO used a once great ‘NAME’ fighter to shine up Nonito’s rather tarnishing recent performances.
6) The Rigo fight speaks for itself. You use Rigo outstanding amateur career to cover up Nonito’s disappointing performance, frequently looking like ‘just another amateur’ for Rigo that night. It was what it was. And finally…
7) Vic 2: Were you really once again ATG impressed?? It didn’t win him much ATG recognition to most knowledgeable fight fans, although I almost sure that you wouldn’t agree. There no need to take this fight any further.
TARK, ALL TIME GREAT status is something PERMANENT, something that CAN’T be taken away. Fighters that are HOF consideration worthy. If Erick Morales loses his next 5 fights it wouldn’t matter, he’s already considered an ATG fighter. Same hold true for Floyd if he loses his next couple of fights, even the Klits. Now, would you consider Nonito an ATG under the SAME circumstances?? If he loses his next coule of fights and retires? If he retired TODAY would you consider him an ATG,? Huh? If your answer is ‘NO’ then he was NEVER an ATG to begin with!! Do you follow me? Oh well… Peace TARK!Posted November 12, 2013 12:36 pm
“Note that I do not dispute his great skills and talent however the road to greatness is much longer than his travelled so far.”
Oh look! It’s a boxing sage!
ROFLMAO!Posted November 12, 2013 10:59 am
Piechucker – thank you and I hope you have even a better one.Posted November 12, 2013 10:46 am
im predicting rigo, like andre ward, will retire undefeatedPosted November 12, 2013 10:29 am
difference of opinion I guess. great can be determined in many ways. greatness is f course something you earn over time. have a good one matePosted November 12, 2013 10:28 am
piechucker – I like to bestow greatness based on perfomances and achievements on a top levelover a period of time. before that one simply possesses the skill to be a great. Note that I do not dispute his great skills and talent however the road to greatness is much longer than his travelled so far.Posted November 12, 2013 2:13 am
happy boy – rigo is a great fighter period. did u watch the fight? he hasn’t had many pro fights yet, but it is quite clear that he is not good, but greatPosted November 12, 2013 1:27 am
“Who had 18?”
Chris John.Posted November 12, 2013 1:21 am
Tark – true but after that it’s cherrypicks, old has beens, same for Pac up to Morales1 are good fights after that same MO cherrypicks ( Clottey, Hutto), catchweights ( ODH, Cotto & Margo), old has beens ( Mosley ) and ofcourse the cherrypick gone bad 39yr old Dinamita. Smoke and mirrors!Posted November 11, 2013 10:22 pm
Donarie was a big underdog vs Darchinyan originally.. Donaire was 28-0 and a tremendous puncher.
Fernando Montiel was a hell of a boxer-puncher and he went out in 2 rounds.. You can’t say Nonito fought nothing but garbage.. He whipped some good fighters along the way and put Rigondeaux on the canvas.Posted November 11, 2013 9:45 pm
You’ll notice that I call Rigo a good boxer not great cause even though his talent promises a lot he still has far to go before his considered a great Pro like his great amateur career.Soccer has two GREATS in Messi & Ronaldo, these players face multiple challanges on a weekly basis to prove that they are worthy of the same praise as their predecessors, boxers today cherrypick their way to the top and call themselves GREATS but get exposed. Is Nonito gonna fight Rigo next, NO! Is Pacman gonna fight Mayweather after cherrypicking another loser in Rios HELL NO! Boxing is HYPE = $ = greatness. Love the sport but can’t deny that it’s smokes and mirrors.Posted November 11, 2013 9:45 pm
Peej – with all these belts, greedy promoters and crap writers in boxing one has to look a lot deeper to get a clear picture. I was a fan of Nonito until I noticed all the tomato cans that his promoter had been feeding him as a result as soon as he came up a good boxer in Rigo (12 Pro fights) he folded. If he was the real deal he would have had a rematch right away instead he goes on and cherrypicks an old worn out war horse he blew to pieces 6yrs ago now fans are eating up this crap again. Nonito is a good hypejob designed to fool desperate and stupid fans to part with their $.Posted November 11, 2013 9:27 pm
Who had 18? Donaire fought nothing but bums for most his career and the ones that weren’t bums where pretty much retired or old as hell. That’s like saying Wilders record is impressive because all his wins are by KI. Then you look at his record and realize it don’t mean squatPosted November 11, 2013 8:55 pm
I am a Donaire fan, no if,ands or buts about it,however, in this fight he just didn’t have it. I was looking at his physical appearance , he looked to me like a fighter that had been in the gym, but he didn’t look as if he had really pushed himself, there was no muscle definition, don’t just believe me, take a look at the tape again, also he seemed like he lacked that little extra speed, this coupled with a lack of fire spells trouble for a fighter, if he does not want to fight anymore, retire, and rest on what he has already achieved, that’s his business, but don’t just be talked into more fights by the hangers on, and people around you, it’s your life, not theirs.I have enjoyed watching him in the past, I don’t want to see him get hurt for nothing. Good luck Nonito.Posted November 11, 2013 8:44 pm
Still, Peej, 18 straight title defenses is remarkable.Posted November 11, 2013 8:13 pm
evil vic ruined nonito. nonito will never be the samePosted November 11, 2013 6:54 pm
Cause John really doesn’t fight out of Indonesia or where ever he fights from. If you look at his record you really don’t see outstanding fighters for the exception of Marquez. I never saw the fight and from what I heard he either got robbed or it was a close fight.Posted November 11, 2013 4:46 pm
Donaire should’ve had an easy win against Vic. Dude’s tough as hell but cmon, he’s 37 years old and blown up in weight,. HBO brought him in specifically to make Donaire look good and regain confidence. That goal wasn’t accomplished.Posted November 11, 2013 3:34 pm
BTW, the title of this article reaffirms the reality: “Nonito Donaire is bailed out by his power….”Posted November 11, 2013 12:33 pm
Somebody mentioned Chris John as a potential opponent for Donaire. I was just wondering how many people realize that John has successfully defended his WBA featherweight title for 18 straight fights?
I’m also wondering why Garcia never fought John as a featherweight. Promoter rivalry?Posted November 11, 2013 12:25 pm
He can fight Rigo 10 times & would lose each time…he just doesn’t box very well.Posted November 11, 2013 11:05 am
Tark, were you aware that Nishioka was actually retired for only a few months before Top Rank talked him back into taking the Donaire fight? They brought him back from retirement, which explains in part why he was so defensive. It wasn’t because Donaire was so good and powerful, it was because Nishioka couldn’t pass on a good money fight and didn’t want to get to take any serious damage for his last fight. I give no credit whatsoever to Donaire for that fight, the Narvaez fight or the Arce fight–all guys either on the verge of retirement or a weight class below.Posted November 11, 2013 9:28 am
Rigo will cream him again and even worse, if Donaire wants a rematch right now.Posted November 11, 2013 5:10 am
Donaire put on his best boxing display vs Nishioka—another southpaw… He looked super confident and really relaxed coming in.
He really had his jab going nice and smooth that night… He mixed it with a left uppercut that he really stepped into.. He won every round by a wide margin… He forced Nishioka to attack to try to salvage the fight… and he just knocked Nishioka out with no trouble at all.
That’s the last time I’ve seen him step into a ring with the same aura and bearing he had for the first Darchinyan fight.Posted November 11, 2013 2:42 am
vic fought a good fight, but I don’t feel too bad for him coz he’s a total wankerPosted November 11, 2013 2:23 am
Donaire’s body also looked kinda flabby in there too. He needs to start hitting the weights.Posted November 11, 2013 1:42 am
I guess that’s Donaire. A one-lefthook pony.Posted November 11, 2013 1:40 am
There`s an expression “To a guy with a hammer everything is a nail”, and I think that sums Darchinyan up.
I thought Darchinyan actually showed a bit more boxing ability vs Mijares – and that was a fight where a LOT of boxing writers were picking against him.
I don`t think it is that he is incapable of being a bit smarter, I think he is just a greedy for the KO.
I like that. Darchinyan vs Darchinyan would be a great fight. Maybe not a great boxing match.Posted November 11, 2013 1:04 am
I think Nonito gets a little too much credit. He is a wonderful knockout artist but nothing more, and how good he is at light weights is rare. People think he is a great boxer but he is not, I try to say this without taking away from him because they are all warriors. He is a superb knockout artist, but that is all he is. The sweetest left hook in the game.Posted November 11, 2013 12:42 am
I think Vic is always dangerous, but donair should’ve got him out of there a lot earlier. I don’t think donaire has shown any growth under his current trainer. Time for a change.Posted November 10, 2013 11:43 pm
you guys are overlooking the fact that Darchinyan is pretty much underrated as a boxer. I thought he beat Mares. He had this victory in his grasp and I think his corner should have told him to be careful as the fight closed because Donaire was going to get desparate and throw bombs; it was the only play Donaire had left. And that’s exactly what he did and he got very lucky it paid off.Posted November 10, 2013 11:30 pm
Tark, you’re right about Vic. It’s amazing he won titles with his limited ability. He’s just a strong guy, and was landing on Donaire. I was surprised he let that slip away last night. Vic never had any defense or for that matter as you said, he didn’t have much but a punch.Posted November 10, 2013 11:02 pm
I didn’t expect Donaire to take so long to finish off Darchinyan… He didn’t look sharp. He hurt Vic earlier and didn’t finish him. He needed tough talk from his corner before he came out with enough fire to end it.Posted November 10, 2013 10:05 pm
Darchinyan won titles where there was no competition… As soon as he faced somebody like Donaire—who could box and punch—he got knocked out.. When I say klutz, I just meant he has very few skills.. He’s a one-dimensional fighter who loads and throws left after left … It’s a real good shot — but that’s all he’s got or ever had.Posted November 10, 2013 10:00 pm
Donaire was fortunate to get a win. He will get destroyed should he fight Rigondeaux. Darchyniyan blew it. He had it all but wrapped up and blew it.Posted November 10, 2013 9:28 pm
@TARK “Vic is such a klutz it didn’t matter..”
A klutz who won the IBF flyweight, and IBF,WBA and WBC superflyweights as well as challenging for Bantamweight titles.Posted November 10, 2013 5:56 pm
Donaire vs Chris john next? Makes sense john is longest reining world champion at the moment but not including Marquez he has never really had a defining fight. Donaire needs a big but easish win with a world title to get back on the scene. Both are east Asian and big a list names in that region so fight will sell very well out their and maybe across USA too.Posted November 10, 2013 5:39 pm
Donaire hasn’t had much. His wins where against smaller, older, bout to retire fighters. His best wins where Vic and Montiel. He just towered over Montiel and I give him full credit for the win and KOing Vic also. But he has done absolutely nothing since then but lose to Rigo. He should of never been on anybody P4P list nor should he had been voted the fighter of the year. Based on the credential he won on they should of given it to Wilder.Posted November 10, 2013 5:29 pm
I didn’t see the fight, but the fact that his homeland, the Phillipines, had just been hit by the biggest storm in world history might have distracted him.Posted November 10, 2013 5:15 pm
Great fights!! Donaire needs a long (very long) rest. Garcia needs Gamboa then up one more weight class where I think he will do even better. This dude has very well schooled.Posted November 10, 2013 4:57 pm
Tark-Vic is such a klutz huh-dude you are funny-he’s a world class fighter that got caught in and exchange towards the end of a highly contested bout. He’s a klutz that you’ll see make the HOF-first and only fighter to ever unify the titles at his weight class and that happen after Donaire so called destroyed him in the 1st match. You guys that just sit and watch need to have a lil more respect-when folks say you have hand speed its only cause ur quick to drink uo all the beer-grab the remote and eat the food up-show some respect to the sport u watch but clearly don’t understand.Posted November 10, 2013 4:49 pm
This pundit said.., “Heading into this fight it did not appear that Nonito was going to bring anything into this fight that was going to stop the blossoming Darchinyan from continuing his drive toward the larger stardom of boxing as he was hyped to be capable of.”
I remember that Darchinyan didn’t seem capable of a whole lot at the time.. He had no jab, and loaded his left hand a lot more than he does today.. It seemed like an easy win for Donaire and it was.
But Darchinyan was punching a little sharper and Donaire WASN’T as sharp in this rematch.. I think Nonito still has left shoulder problems.. He doesn’t have the jab or overall weaponry he owned 6 years ago. Vic is such a klutz it didn’t matter.. Nonito won but he needs to do something about that left shoulder of his—because his left hook is his killer shot and his left jab is the can opener.
If he fought Mikey Garcia he’d get knocked cold.Posted November 10, 2013 4:41 pm
Only thing people got right was the fight wasn’t going the distance but almost the whole so called boxing die hards had it wrong cause they just don’t know boxing as well as they thought. Vic Darchinyan is a world class fighter-future HOF fighter and top guy in every weight class he’s ever competed in. IMO he pretty much only lost maybe 2 rds-he was giving Donaire the business like he said-but he got caught and that happen-IDK if Donaire was lucky or Vic just got careless maybe a lil of both. I think a desciplined Vic beats alot of the top guys and Donaire having hard times vs both Rigo and Vic doesn’t mean he’s done or slipped.Posted November 10, 2013 4:39 pm
Darch just can’t seal the win against Donaire, even if he’s actually beating him. Excellent fight, plenty of fireworks, and it didn’t go the distance. It pretty much lived up to everyone’s expectations.Posted November 10, 2013 4:05 pm