EZ… I don’t have to prove anything to you, you gutless jerk. I could give a damn what you think of me because you’re a moron. Is that clear you pathetic, brainless slug???
What kind of fool writes the pathetic drivel that spews forth from your squishy brain? You’re demented.
Since I completely dominated you in logic and factual data you’re taking it as a personal affront. You’re launching cowardly, unprompted, unfounded, vicious attacks on me, somebody you don’t know and never met. I don’t want to know you because you’re an oafish idiot. I simply LMAO at your insipid stupidity. It’s very entertaining to watch your posting struggles—it’s like watching “The Three Stooges.”
BTW, I knocked ranking heavyweights out so I was probably a better fighter than you were. You obviously never reached ranked status. I was a very good trainer and was called a great trainer by many others. I am often called for advice by fighters who I trained in the amateurs and by their trainers. I’m involved with other occupations, so I don’t have hoards of time, but I still watch important boxing matches and try to keep abreast of boxing news.
BTW.., another quote from the great Doc Kearns.., “No, I never studied medicine—but I always had the prescription on how to win a fight. People just naturally started calling me the doctor.”Posted February 6, 2014 4:52 pm
Well.., so you’re this great trainer. I don’t think I was maybe as connected as you were, but I’ve trained hundreds of boxers. I took a guym of losing boxers to 80% wins within 3 years. Some from no experience at all at 9 or 10 to international championships gold medals to undefeated professional contenders. I’m not saying I was the greatest shakes as a boxer or trainer but I know the game.
Doing road work in the snow or rain is nothing… Just dress warmly… Everybody did it. Everybody ran in the snow. Are you going to sleep in??? It’s the gym workouts that are tough. And yes guys do spar up to 12 rounds without taking a full minute break between rounds.. Only the top guys.. You don’t do that every day of course.. That would be foolish.. Maybe once in 2 weeks go that hard.. Spar 3 times a week if you’re doing heavy strength training on alternate days.. You get in massive condition that’s not hard to do 12 if you can defend brilliantly… It’s like roadwork.. A lot of guy trudge along.. Step it out if the weather is really good and start doing a mile every 6 minutes.. That’s when you’re really in shape. Get 5 miles done in 30 minutes without going so hard you can’t recover your breath and heart rate in at least 5 minutes… If you can do that 12 rounds is a snap.Posted February 6, 2014 3:00 am
In the meanwhile.. you forgot all the **facts** I facilitated to you since *Ray’s* *early* *days*. Bums? Well, when you fight as much as they did, yep, lesser caliber opposition will come along too. Check the low caliber of *ARCHIE* and all the other *ATG* *fighters* with over 100 fights. *You* *don’t* *have* a *clue* *boxing* *back* *in* *the* *day* You disrespectfully *overlook* *the* prejudices of their days. No big TV promotional *$$* *barnstorming*.. oh forget it. only play dumb or DUCK the *the* *facts* I can do this all day. Maybe it’s best that I write an article. hmmm… maybe I should get it going while I waste a little more time with you. ahhhh.. *I’ll*be*waiting*Posted February 5, 2014 11:00 pm
*NEXT* “STEP”: *OBTAIN*A*TEMP*EMAIL*ADD*WHICH*YOU*CAN* *DISACTIVATE*WHENEVER*YOU*WISH** *I*WILL*KEEP*MINE*BCUZ* *IT’S*TOO*VALUABLE*FOR*ME*AND*OTHERS** *NO*NEED*WORRY** *IV’E*DONE*THIS*BEFORE*** This*IS*WHERE*THE*RUBBER*MEETS* *THE*ROAD* **NO*EXCUSES* P_L_E_A_S_E!! This will be good for BOTH of us!!Posted February 5, 2014 10:42 pm
Sooooo…. it’s time to separate the men from the boys!!!!! Please don’t disappoint me. This is actually easy to do, with no need of fear. A few moments ago I attempted to send you you my email but for the 2nd time it just won’t go through. Maybe it’s the address that causes a “repeat comment” and is refused. But I got an IDEA!! Every letter/number after the star is the one. We’ll have to play “spy” to get this done. Pleaes don’t play like “no comprende” because you will RUIN this and be considered an ATG-wussy Okay: *e*m*o*r*a*l*e*s*1*0*9*@*y*a*h*o*o*.*c*o*m ya see that wasn’t hard, was it?? Let’s hope!!Posted February 5, 2014 9:49 pm
You seem to forget that I REALLY train fighters. No, not as much as I used to years back but still good enough to get calls from managers and other trainers as well. NO, it aint like you say or try to make it saound, 12 rounds a day of sparring?? hmmmm… And frequently too, huh?? LOL!! You’re a joke!! These next couple of comments are gonna be FUN!! Man, if you don’t know what that many fights take out of a fighter then that alone tells me that YOU’RE not all that you say you are, NOTHING CLOSE!! ZILCH!! NADA!! You should be ashamed but there’s obviously NO shame in you’re game. You’d be a laughing stock in my circles. Who would ever agree with you?? WHO?? Who in God creation have you worked with? Please it’s gotta be something I something I can verify, like I do. I wouldn’t dare mention the fighters I’ve had and have under me and gyms because there are many ESB members from the Island that can call me a BS’ing fake, that YOU probably are. I got a call few months ago I to help work with Island prospect Braulio Santos (check him out on boxrec) to revamp his career. So far so good. I have another, Camilo Perez, another prospect ona bit of a slide that they want me to assist along with his trainer. I can’t say this if it wasn’t true, Id be picked out in a minute by my fellow Boricuas and be exposed. Let me hear you’re credentials, something I can verify! The gyms, Along who? WHO have you nurtured to the top?? Which title fights have you worked in. Be careful, I know MORE people than you can ever conceivably believe, dude. In my next comment I’ll even send my email address. I will confidentially give tell you a bit more myself. I don’t do it for you to do the same simply because you can’t. You have NOTHING!!Posted February 5, 2014 9:09 pm
Before you go bonkers on me by saying that fighters today hit the bag after some sparring with gloves, I HOPE you know that I’m saying that it was a much more regular thing back with the 12-16oz gloves after some pretty stiff sessions. And you weren’t allowed to just go through the motions. Whitey Bimstein, Chickie, Freddie and Caron Gonzalez & Victor Valle would give their fighters hell especially Whitey and Victor and my uncle included!! There was MORE sparring than today. I remember Georgie Benton saying that there were whole weeks where the heavy bags were taken down and it was all about some heavy sparring. Bennie Briscoe, who I met when he fought Vicente Rondon here on the Island said the same. In the Rondon rematch I picked him and his two cornermen up at the airport as a favor to promoter Tuto Zavala Sr. bacsically because I spoke English. Baaaaad Bennie was one of the nicest guys you’d even wanna meet. There were no nutritionist, personal doctors, weight and strength specialist… No modern day equipment. ALL the roadwork was done on the ROAD, in the cold, below freezing temperatures, rain, sleet, snow… it had to be done. No big lucrative contracts for the unproven. I remember fighters giving up 45-50% of themselves for a weekly allowance of 50 bucks a week. I’m talking about good promising prospects and even seasoned contenders!! I was pretty common back them. My cousin Angel, who was a pretty good club fighter during his short career also signed away a chunk of himself for a weekly allowance. he couldn’t get many fights because there were no flyweight in the New York area. Don King took that practice to a whole new level. All the roadwork was there, ON THE ROAD! In the rain, below freezing cold, the sleet and snow. The game was different then. The sacrifices were bigger. Don’t believe that most of today’s fighter would’ve hanged if they were forced pay those type od dues for too long. I’ll send this one, not the one I really wanted to send. I have to re-create the next to. Just warming up. Now before I answer you most recent post, I’ll send this. Judging from your comment yOU DON”T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE PREP OF A FIGHTER and I will POENLY challege you to it and YOPU EILL PUNK OUT/AVOID and DUCK the challenge!!Posted February 5, 2014 8:38 pm
EZ.., You keep going on about Robinson’s number of fights when 70% of his fights were against tomatoes. They were paid sparring sessions. He only had about 50 real fights that were worth anything. The public was snowed. Look at the winning percentages of Robbie’s combined opponents compared to the winning percentage of Floyd’s combined opponents if you want a real eye opener as to who fought tomato cans.
Moore fought many more fights than Robinson—against more dangerous and harder hitters.
Moore was also OLDER and had MORE fights than Robinson. So that’s no excuse for Robinson not fighting Archie… Moore fought guys who were 80 pounds over lhw. Sometimes Archie was so fat his trunks looked like a bib in some of his last fights.
You say fighters sparred more in the old days?
Nowadays they spar up to 12 hard rounds without taking a break—just a few seconds to change sparring partners.. That builds endurance so they never get tired. A lot of today’s boxers could fight 25 rounds. If you’re in shape to run a marathon it doesn’t mean you can’t run 5,000 meters. You just run faster. You can fight harder when you only fight 12 rounds. You don’t have to fight hard—but you have that option if you’re in shape. Some of the old 15-round fights were guys dancing the shuffle for 2 minutes every round. Anybody can to that. Maxim ramped up the pace and Robbie couldn’t take it. Kearns had a spy in SRR’s camp. If it’s were hotter or colder or rainy or windy or 20 rounds—Maxim was ready. Doc made certain of that. Maxim said in a radio interview, “I was ready for the heat. He wasn’t.”
Here’s an alternate schedule I used for event fighters — 6am: 5 mile run, or a 30 minute run—whichever comes first — half hour rest — 7am: 20 X 100 yard wind sprints alternating forwards and backwards. Most guys hate sprinting backwards but they love it after they try it for a couple months. It gives you more spring because boxers dart in and out a lot.
2pm: 15 minutes shadow boxing, 3 rounds rope skipping, 3 rounds double end bag, 3 rounds speed bag, 3 rounds focus pads, 3 rounds heavy bag, 10 rounds sparring… With dressing, hand wrapping, and putting on sparring gear that workout takes 2.5 hours of gym time if everybody is efficient.
5pm: 30 minutes of strength training, including chin-ups, sit-ups, back extensions, and pushups in that order. I believe over-stretching is bad. You need only a minute to stretch out your whole body and only need to apply moderate force at the most.
I alternated using body weight for resistance with weight training—using pressing benches and dumbbells—every other day. Strength plateaus are broken through faster by changing routines up. I changed up the running routines and gym workouts as well—because speed and endurance plateaus are broken through faster that way. I carried a stopwatch and a journal to make notations about every workout.
I’m pretty sure Robinson didn’t work out very hard—or as scientifically as Maxim did…. Did I tell you it was just as hot for Maxim??? OK… I guess it took 27 times for you to listen.Posted February 5, 2014 6:11 pm
It did it again!! Oh boy…. well.. back to the drawing board!! %@*^!!!Posted February 5, 2014 10:00 am
Yes, I’m being forced to re-create my post due to the ESB comment monster. Okay, WHO has Kearns nurtured from the beginning that became ATG?? None that I know of. He became Dempsey’s manager when Jack was well into the pro ranks. And… even came into Benny Leonard’s at the tail end and the same hold’s true with Maxim, although not as late. He entered Lane’s when he had already blossomed. This you probably know although I don’t expect you to agree. Any novice fan knows that he became Archie’s manager pretty late in Archie’s career. Archie was a leading contender for a long time before Doc approached him. This is easy to verify. If you know boxing then this you should already know. Doc sealed the deal by promising a title shot. Archie himself later said that he knew that Doc/Maxim were going to continue dodge/duck/avoid him and took Doc’e offer. And… after we’ve gone back & forth with with dozens of post debating the ATG status of Kearns now you “I never said” me? Go back read the last two dozen comments or so. Too many to quote but YOU can always go back, which I doubt. Okay, I’ll admit that I said “occasionally”, when it was more than that. But not the…. the rest you already know
Having problems posting again. I formally informed ESB to see if thety can supply me with an explanation. I did it once before and got no response. Patience….Posted February 5, 2014 8:39 am
You know EZ…, It doesn’t make a DAMNED bit if difference if you worked corners with world champions (or if I did because I certainly have as well.) It doesn’t make a damned bit of difference what Gil Clancy or Howie Albert did. None of us did it as well as Kearns, and his ability is the subject here.
Have you trained and managed several boxers TO professional world championships—with at least 2 of them being all-time-great fighters??? I haven’t… Howie Albert hasn’t… Gil Clancy hasn’t… How many people have??? In the long history of Boxing you might be able to name a handful and Doc Kearns was one of those.
Jack Dempsey.., “When Kearns told me to do something—especially in a corner during a fight—I did it. If I didn’t he would blow his stack. He would ask me like a child, ‘are you getting this?’ or ‘are you listening to me?’ But instead of saluting and saying ‘yes your Majesty’ I would just say, ‘you’re the doctor.’ That would calm Doc down a little. I said that so often he became known as ‘Doc Kearns.”
Archie Moore.., “Kearns wasn’t overly impressed with the great Archie Moore. He managed great fighters before and didn’t take any guff. If I did something he didn’t like, such as losing a round, he’d dress me down like a 5th grade kid. I would go out and try harder because I didn’t want to face another tongue lashing when I got back to the corner.”Posted February 4, 2014 5:08 pm
EZ you’re a moron.., I never said Kearns was an ATG strategist. That’s a lie you just keep repeating, even though Dempsey, Moore, and Walker would probably say that he was. Dempsey said he was the greatest expert ever.
You said, “Kearns wasn’t a trainer per say and MUCH LESS the “strategist” which is just total BS because obviously he certain was both. You tried to imply that he didn’t work corners a lot, like he’s worthless for strategy.wasn’t a trainer per say and MUCH LESS the “strategist” that you claim
That’s just one lie you’re peddling. I said he was a great strategist and a highly respected one. You’re claiming he wasn’t one at all.
Kenny Lane, Moore, Dempsey, Maxim, and Walker all said complimentary things about Kearns’ great knowledge of the game, his knowledge of the opposition as far as strengths and weaknesses are concerned, and how to beat them.
Kearns guided Mickey Walker—a 147-pounder when Kearns started managing him—to victory over Tiger Flowers for the World Middleweight Championship; and to many great wins at middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight..
Kearns guided Walker to a draw with Jack Sharkey, and wins over Paulino Uzcudun and other huge heavyweights—guys who were obviously much taller and heavier than Walker. Doc worked and strategized with Walker through more than 50 fights. Walker went to Kearns because of his great reputation. Great fighters wouldn’t go with Kearns—or stick with Kearns—if he wasn’t doing a great job for them … They have other options.Posted February 4, 2014 12:24 am
Can we move to on the HEAT next? I might surprise you. Yes, indeed because seems like YOU’RE convinced that you’re the ONLY one with Marathon experience and performing in the HEAT. PLUS the “HEATED” Robby vs Joey 104 degree factor/issue as well.Posted February 3, 2014 10:59 pm
OK.., They won’t let you post complete URL’s … What a painPosted February 3, 2014 6:13 pm
“I admit that Howie has NEVER been recognized by the media, press, boxing experts, boxing writers nor creditable fight magazines as an ATG cornerman, ATG strategist nor ATG trainer. Not even the New York fight circles. AAAAAND… the same goes for Doc Kearns.”
There have been plenty of articles lauding Kearns as a world renowned trainer and strategist… So you’re full of pure BS.
Go to this URL — newspapers.com/newspage/1103015/ You’ll read the following about Doc Kearns the strategist and trainer. It talked about Kearns working the corner for slick boxing lightweight Kenny Lane. Quotation, “Doc,” who has managed six world champions, gave Lane his final instructions before each round began, and Lane listened to the old master and followed his word.” Kearns always gave strategic advice. Everyone knew he was damned good.
If he wasn’t, elite boxers like Moore, Maxim, Dempsey, and Walker wouldn’t have said so. They weren’t making eulogies . They were expressing their honest opinion of a man who boosted their fistic careers with his knowledge of styles and strategy.
You’ll find dozens of other creditable quotations in newspapers, magazines, and books about Kearns prowess as a strategist if you look for them. Or you can remain ignorant, which I have no doubt is the course you’ll choose.Posted February 3, 2014 6:06 pm
What’s going on??? Why aren’t my posts appearing?Posted February 3, 2014 6:05 pm
OK my posts aren’t going up. What a waste of time.Posted February 3, 2014 6:03 pm
Maybe next I’ll either get into the still UNfinished HEAT issue or respond to your last “ducking” comments. No sense in allowing UNFINISHED business to remain unattended, right? We’ll see, gotta get an early start. BTW, had an interesting conversation with Cotto’s bro last night. hmmm… Inside stuff that not many people know. Well.. maybe only YOU, of course.Posted February 2, 2014 8:03 pm
“…and lent more strategic advice”?? ahhhh…. Maybe you’re right. Yep, maybe. Okay now, did you miss what Gil Clancy said about Howie?? Did you read the Ring Magazine article upon Howie’s death?? Or the words of Carlos Ortiz and Jake LaMotta, Juan LaPorte and Bert Sugar?? hmmm… No, they didn’t say that Howie Albert was an ATG trainer/cornerman and neither do I, although… Emil said HE WAS. Wouldn’t you agree that HOF’er & FIVE TIME UNDISPUTED WORLD CHAMPION Emil Griffith knew his boxing?? Yes?? No?? Anyway, what else could’ve we expected Emil to say?? Get it??Posted February 2, 2014 7:49 pm
What facts are you talking about??? Howie Albert worked corners? Does that have anything to do with Doc Kearns working corners? Kearns worked corners longer than Albert did—and lent more strategic advice.
You’re a liar man. Kearns didn’t work corners occasionally. He worked with 100’s of boxers and in thousands of corners over the years. Not just with great champions.
Doc was invaluable in the corner. His advice was sorely needed
Kearns knew HOW to match guys. He knew WHO to match them with. He knew HOW to beat oppoents. He knew WHAT to beat them with; e.g. Oscar’s strategy for Canelo to beat Floyd was the jab. THE JAB!!! DLH was a great boxer but a terrible strategist. Kearns was a great strategist. He would never advise Maxim to beat Robinson by trying to outscore him with his jab.
And who would have a more valid opinion of Doc Kearns than people like Maxim, Moore, Walker, and Dempsey—guys who worked with Doc??? Kearns worked with hundreds of boxers over the years—not just 4 great world champions.
Kearns was in the game for over a half century. He wasn’t a water boy or towel swinger. He was used for strategic, timely advice.
Obviously Doc was a strategist. Dempsey said Kearns was the greatest expert ever. Dempsey gave Kearns that praise in his autobiography. I’m quoting guys who knew Kearns well and worked with him for years. They would know. Robinson knew full well what Maxim did to him … and he didn’t want a second helping.
Ray Robinson was a great fighter who ducked his toughest possible opponents. That’s a verifiable fact—and I’ve proven it beyond a doubt.Posted February 1, 2014 10:37 pm
Wayward people like you need help. Like a stray dog.
My instinct is to help the less fortunate and enlighten the ignorant. Suggesting Doc Kearns did not regularly work corners in important fights is the kind of baloney clueless people like you pull out of the either. Arguing that he was not a good strategist is the ignorant bombast of uninformed intransigents.
“Their ignorant hearts are set in stone, but I still try. I know not why.”Posted February 1, 2014 4:38 pm
TARK ahhh…So you took a few seconds to scan.. yeah, yeah, yeah… I have to comeback. You can’t resist coming back. You won’t function if you didn’t read what EZ E had to say> I know you better than you KNOW yourself! See you in a few!!Posted February 1, 2014 4:07 pm
EZ, I took a few seconds to scan your most recent claptrap… Aside from your stupid insults and trash talking it’s the same childish BS as always. Your amateurish statements are pure naiveté.
Have you even fought in 103 degree heat at night? Out of the blazing sun? Many fights have been fought UNDER a blazing sun much hotter than that.
I boxed on hot days and nights with no trouble. I ran a half marathon where the temperature soared to over 100 degrees. Great athletes handle hot temperatures with ease. They don’t allow the weather to affect their performance. How hot was it for Maxim? Just as hot as for Robinson.
You claim Kearns was not a great strategist??? You’re an idiot. And of course Kearns worked the corners of Dempsey, Walker, Moore, and Maxim.
Read Jack Dempsey’s autobiography. Dempsey wrote, “Doc Kearns was the greatest boxing expert there ever was. He was never wrong.” Dempsey also said he wouldn’t have become heavyweight champion if it weren’t for the clever Kearns. Dempsey wasn’t overly fond of Kearns. He resented Kearns’ conceit and arrogance. But he respected Kearns’ knowledge greatly.
Archie Moore credited Kearns with saving his lhw title after he was decked 5 times—allowing Moore to come came back to win the fight. I was personally acquainted with Archie for many years and he told me this himself. Kearns’ 50 years of Boxing expertise paid off handsomely for Moore against Durelle.
It also bolstered Maxim against Robinson. Kearns said, “Robinson is feeling the pace; keep him working; run his gas tank out. You’re working brilliantly baby; keep on him.” Ultimately, “He’s gone; he’ll never make 2 more rounds.”
Fighters the quality of Dempsey, Walker, Maxim, and Moore wouldn’t associate with experts like Kearns unless they believed in his valuable mind.Posted February 1, 2014 12:01 am
TARKATER, I’ll be back. Got to run for an hour of practice and off to work. I have three bombs I looking to drop plus a few grenades for your rebuttals.Posted January 31, 2014 9:10 pm
Okay, time is running short because I’m doing some rephrasing as I go along. BTW.. Did you say “childish”?? hmmm.. that’s clearly a sign that I’m breaking you down. But… let’s not waste on that. Thiswill be just a feeling out round for me, light sparring. The next few rounds will be tough for you, so enjoy these previous ones. You’ll see
ahhhh…. were you referring to Sugar’s early career or LATE career when you emphatically said that “Robinson had more charisma than skill. Robbie was flashy, ostentatious, drove a Flamingo colored Cadillac “?? I’m gonna give YOU a chance to do a little REPHRASING yourself before I continue.
WOW!! MORE charisma than SKILLS?? Well then If that’s true then Mr Robinson must hold the ATG record for the MOST charisma ever bestowed on a human being!!
But.. it was HIS skill that allowed his charisma to stand out, not the other way around. Think about it. Let that marinate in your thick skull for a minute. If Sugar didn’t have SKILLS then WHO the heck would’ve cared if he was charismatic or not?? NOBODY!! Did he have MORE charisma than skills during his fantastic, incredible, unbelievable, dynamic FIRST YEAR as a pro?? Or was that charisma??
Now, if you trying to say that in his LATER years his fame & charisma helped his career as a money maker well then, that’s fairly acceptable. BUT it was his SKILLS, whether not so prime or not, that SUPER-CEDED his charisma. And as for your comparison of him with Floyd ahhh.. Ray wasn’t hated/disliked by the fans like Floyd was. I consider Floyd MORE controversial than charismatic. Floyd’s popularity was ignited by the dislike the fans and non-fans felt for him. Ray wasn’t totally liked by the fans (you’re one PRIME example) but now is held in DEEPEST OF ADMIRATION ever in the history of the sport. (except for you, of course)Posted January 31, 2014 9:05 pm
Oooops, typo! My bad. (I made a BIG mistake) Not even the wily, slick & fast talking Doc Kearns believed his own words, that leaves… (guess WHO?) ONLY YOU!!!!!!!Posted January 31, 2014 8:03 pm
Now, next is THE HEAT issue itself. According to the “Mind Of TARK” the heat was NEVER an issue stating that it was Mr. Maxim’s weight and constant pressure and Papa Doc’s strategy, let’s not forget that. I’ll invite you to re-read YOUR comment. Please don’t deny b’cuz you’ll look even worse. The thing is that EVERY article, clipping, all boxing writer, Boxing Magazines, media, press, UPI, AP…. ALL emphatically state that the heat DID play an important role in Mr. Joey’s victory. All agree with ME and… NONE agree with YOU!! duhhh You attribute the win to Mr. Doc’s strategy, huh? (You’re words) I’m don’t really know. but the U.S. population is roughly 320 million, out of which ONLY TWO believe your theory, Doc and YOU!! Yes, only TWO out of THREE HUNDRED & TWENTY MILLION!! People like you a practically IMPOSSIBLE to find, like BIGFOOT!! LOL! Doesn’t the ref collapsing in the 10th round tell you anything?? Here’s something you might know but would NEVER admit: the respected Boxing Historian site reports that the fighters were unaware the some fans in the attendance also collapsed and were carried out due to heat exhaustion!!Check it out. It was also mentioned in the Ring Magazine.
Oh I know that you’ll try and slip out of this one with “I never said” but you’ll only be lying AGAIN!!
One more point before I have to go BUT… I won’t be finished yet, only warming up. We still have a long way to go.Posted January 31, 2014 7:54 pm
Okay!! Where was I befroe my posting problems began?? Oh yeah, I was schooling you, wasn’t I?? As you already know, I tricked you into getting your carcass off the canvas. You’re not too bright. Is that you saying “hee-haw”??
Anyway, would you be so “kind” to explain why you consider Mr. Kearns the wonderful ‘strategist’ that you surly give him credit to have been? Or even a respected top trainer?? You’d find it quite difficult to find an exert or two that would agree, very difficult. Yes, he was one of the best managers of his time and even a ATG manager, that I won’t deny. But “strategist”? I believe Joey’s trainer was Al Delmonte, who was a pretty good trainer that worked with a few good Cleveland area fighters according some Ring Magazines. Actually, when Mr. Kearns heard the opinions of the press, fans, media saying that the heat got to Mr. Ray, to defend the quality of Joey’s victory he responded with, “I planned it that way” or word to that effect. ahhh.. “I planed it that way’?? Maybe Mr. Doc brought with him the 104 degree heat as well!! What do you expect form Jack “Doc”?? Was he supposed to say “Joey was lucky tonight”?? or.. “He didn’t beat Sugar, the heat did”?? Are you going to say that Doc trained Dempsey?? He very OCCASIONALLY worked in corners, but NO, he wasn’t a trainer per say and MUCH LESS the “strategist” that you claim. (You get a D- for that point)
Coming up: “THE HEAT”Posted January 31, 2014 7:08 pm
GREAT!! This one got through!! Oh boy, let’s hope the other do as well!! I’ll have a couple of hours of FUN before choir practice. Yes, besides humbling POMPOUS keyboard bullies like you I sing rather well. too.Posted January 31, 2014 6:13 pm
LOOOOOOSSSSEEEEERRRR!!! OOHHH, LLLOOOOOOSSSSEEEERRR! Where you gone Joe DiMaggio??? Do I have to turn over every rock. I already beat you with my keyboard tied behind my back and… with continue to batter you that same way!! LOLOL
First of all, I’m not one of those wimps you try to impress nor the ones you need to pat on your back to in an effort to feel important or like a “somebody” when in FACT, you’re not HALF the man you think you are.
Didn’t you realize that leaving the count at NINE was to manipulate your cowardice to get up?? I knew that if I hit your inflated ego that you wouldn’t stay down. It worked and now I have back you it all started and will continue this ONE SIDED beating. The truth is that you’ve NEVER face an opponent like me and your efforts to pull a “Victor Ortiz” move in your last few comments obviously PROVE it!! Your comments filled my study room with an UN-mistakable odor. Yes, as I read them I SMELL PUZZYYYY!!!! Dirty & cowardice at that.
Now let’s get to BOXING!! I will give it to you one point at a time for the sake of not having to rephrase a long post. That takes entirely too much time. So I’ll give it to you slowly. In the meantime, go wash your PUZZY!!
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!Posted January 31, 2014 6:05 pm
EZ E.., You’re showing your true colors now…
Your childish name calling is becoming too much to waste my time with. You can’t be respectful and you’re just another flaming keyboard moron who is not interested in sharing ideas in a civil way. You’re pretending this is some kind of combat zone and you have to win at all costs. Instead looking for truth and enlightenment.
You’re the man with the yellow steak down his back. You’re a loser.Posted January 31, 2014 12:19 am
Well, as you well know, I work graveyard and it’s already 9:pm Island time. Go’on & RUN!! You won’t get very far. Where ya gonna go?? It’s a MEN vs mice thang. You want a piece of cheese Willard?? LOL I’ll try to rephrase my comments later but EITHERway you look at it, like Mick Jagger said, “time is on my side, YES IT IS!!” because… Patience is Virtue!! See you later if… your YELLOW FEVER allows you.Posted January 30, 2014 9:09 pm
It lookss like you have nothing to say EZ E… You lose by default… Nobody but you declared me the loser… Even Tumbo said it was going into extra innings but he was wrong … The debate ended long ago because you had no intelligent or factual reply to my charge that Robinson ducked Maxim and Jones rematches and ducked Moore and Burley outright!!!
Talk about blah blah blah… I’ve never seen such blather in my life. You have ZERO of substance to post — no wonder your posts keep getting deleted.Posted January 30, 2014 7:16 pm
Ohhhh wellll.. Just earlier got my comment wiped out. Right before that I was informed that I’m commenting too quickly when I hadn’t posted anything since this morning. I waited a minute and tried again and got my then got it refused to post my comment . I tried again and got a “duplicate” comment notification.Posted January 30, 2014 6:46 pm
hmmm… Just got off work. But before I get some rest let me give you a quck ONE-TWO!! It’s actually YOUR blah blah words don’t convince ANYBODY. You were ALREADY DECLARED A LOSER, or did you… ahhh… CONVENIENTLY forget?? Again?? Do I have to remeind you?? Let me know so I can direct you exactly where the judge told us BOTH??!!
Yes, I was BRAVE, BOLD and FEARLESS enough to give a LOSER a REMATCH!! But this is no more that a sparring session. I’ve SMACKED you around and already have seen you nonsense,no fact, no credibility answers. You’re a pushover, D-minus opposition. I’ve gotten personal e-mails telling congratulating ME for the butt whipping I’ve been giving you!! asked the judges!!
You didn’t have to ask me for the rematch I GAVE you one because you’re easy for EZ E!!
Anyway, I’m off to bed!! You?? You haven’t gotten a GOOD night’s sleep in DAYS! LOL!! You’re kind can’t. Just the thought of my comments leave you SLEEPLESS. This I well know simply because my EVERYDAY job for the last COUPLE OF DECADES is working with dis-functional and complex persons that find it extremely difficult dealing with adversity and reality, such as YOU!! You can’t fool me no matter how hard to disguise it!! TARK., I’m speaking very seriously and YOU know darn well where I’m coming from, right?? This article and comments can either do two things for YOU: it can make you more bitter, delusional, hateful or induce you into a state of inferior FANTASY in an effort to combat your TRUE & REALISTIC state of HUMBLED SHAME. Or.. you can ACCEPT reality, FACE your ‘demons’ and be willing to dwell in harmony with what is TRUTH! Actually, I’ve been helping you for MORE THAN A WEEK but… due to YOUR condition compounded by your un-bridled ego, you’re combative nature has you in TOTAL DENIAL!!
I suggest you sit down and let these words soak in, accept what you feel is reality, no matter how difficult it may become and whatever you feel doesn’t pertain to you then…push it away for now, get back to it later. Cool?
Okay, it’s all about a shower and some good shut eye. But… PLEASE don’t forget your CUTMAN!! You’re probably gonna need more than you think!!
Another thing, don’t permit the word “LOSER” to defeat you. Allow it to inspire you to OVERCOME a And please give me a better fight in this one. The first was a fairly easy for EZ.
Oh well… ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZPosted January 30, 2014 1:25 pm
Although I’m pretty sure the last EZ E post was from Hamster, not EZ E.Posted January 30, 2014 1:13 pm
Wow… a delusional keyboard warrior taking his delusions to an unheard of extreme never before seen.
High five your imaginary audience while your at it… because I guarantee you there’s almost nobody reading your musings.
They gave up the 15th time you said Ray had no opportunity to fight Burley or Moore and no opportunity to rematch Maxim or Jones… and besides that he was too small to fight them… There are BS claims and there are BS excuses… You get the two all mixed up.Posted January 30, 2014 2:45 am
HI TARKIE!! I’MMM BAAAAA-AAAAACK!! Yes me, EZ E, your worse nightmare!! Remember those words, “You can run but ya CAN’T hide”, huh?? Well, lucky for you I’m off to work again, gotta make that money for some LEGAL representation. Yes, after utterly HUMILIATING you for the last SEVEN days I’m sure you’re contemplating SUING me soon for all the MENTAL ANGUISH I put you through. Go on, take your best shot, it don’t matter because I’ll whip you in COURT too, you sap!!
In the meantime I suggest you get your CUTMAN, because you’re gonna need him really bad!! See you soon, much sooner than you would like. LOL!!Posted January 30, 2014 2:15 am
Looks like that shot to the liver finished EZ E for good… 7… 8… 9…Posted January 29, 2014 7:15 pm
Hmmm… Seems like TARK got up barely to beat the count….. is in NO CONDITION TO CONTINUE!!!! The ref looks deeply into TARK’s eyes with a worried and MERCYFUL look on his face!! This might be it!! TARK’s eyes are GLASSY. The ESB Doctor is rushing in…..Posted January 29, 2014 1:41 pm
“Moore and Robinson fought into the PED era. It started in the mid ’60s.”
D With all due respects, yes that’s true, but what are you exactly trying to imply, if anything? Personally, I’m not too informed on this PEDs stuff, like, how/when/where it originated. Maybe I should. Peace!Posted January 29, 2014 10:19 am
Learn English you idiot.Posted January 28, 2014 4:07 pm
Moore and Robinson fought into the PED era. It started in the mid ’60s.Posted January 28, 2014 2:06 pm
EZ E…, I’ll answer your impertinent questions, which are off the point.
Of course Moore ducked a rematch with Burley. Burley had the toughest style of anybody for Moore. He couldn’t figure Charley out at all.
Burley fought Moore on less than 8 hours notice—after working an 8 hour shift at his factory job—and after riding 3 hours on a bus. Moore went to Burley’s dressing room after the fight and said, “You’re the best I ever fought. What the Hell were you doing? I couldn’t even grab you.”
Burley laughed and elucidated.., “I never let a fighter get under a punch. I’d rather miss a punch short than let somebody duck under a punch and tie me up.”
That was something Moore never forgot. The tip came in handy when he knocked out Harold Johnson and other great fighters. Recently, when Provodnikov had Alvarado going I thought, “He’s got Mike on the hook. He’s taking his sweet time and not letting him grab. He’s not going crazy; he knows he’s got him.”
If Maxim-Robinson II happened I would not have bet on the fight.
I figure Robinson would have tried to take his time… preserve his energy more… and box more… giving himself a better chance. People don’t realize how long 15 rounds is. You start fighting and finish an hour later—and fighting a bigger, tougher man really saps your strength. Maxim would have been more active and try to get Robinson to work even harder. Maxim knew he beats Robinson unless he runs out of rounds … he needs to stop him.Posted January 28, 2014 1:07 am
WOW!! I worked on it just a little bit and it went through!! Well, not exactly like I originally wrote the beginning but it’s cool too.Posted January 27, 2014 11:09 pm
Gee, another GREAT post swallowed by the ESB COMMENT MONSTER. What a shame, you were about to learn something. Really short on time, gotta get a move on. Don’t get so emotional and uptight about it. I’ll be back tomorrow, little fella.Posted January 27, 2014 10:50 pm
Once again I have to go through another one of these testing procedures. I will try to comment, let see… click!Posted January 27, 2014 10:13 pm
EZ E.., It’s not about winning a keyboard debate. It’s about truth.
All the facts are on my side—but you’ll never believe it. You’ll twist facts to your liking to make it seem like these four matchups couldn’t happen, when they were some of the most logical matchups ever.
I don’t expect you to agree with me. It’s like expecting a Reaganite to believe Ronald Reagan had anything to do with his administration’s secretly selling US missiles and technology to Iran—and using the money to fund a covert war in Nicaragua. It’s like expecting a Nixonite to believe Nixon was a criminal—or expecting Pope Francis to become a follower of Martin Luther … I’m realisic. I know it ain’t happening.
After the Robinson-Maxim fight the potential rematch was white hot. Hordes of Robinson fans felt he would destroy Maxim in a rematch. But Robinson apparently didn’t believe that. Robinson said he wanted to retire—but you don’t chicken out and retire with unfinished business on your plate.
A Robinson-Moore fight was the subject of discussion as soon as Archie won the title. It mattered not if Robinson hadn’t fought for a while… Robinson-Moore would have been box office magic.
Earlier or later—’52, ’55, ‘59—or whenever, Robinson never wanted to fight Moore. Moore could always make 175 no matter how fat he was. Archie’s secret was chewing rare steaks, swallowing the juice, and spitting out the mashed up pulp. It’s a method for losing tons of fat rapidly without losing lean muscle. Archie said he would flatten Robinson anytime Ray got ready.
Ralph Jones was a carefully chosen opponent who beat the daylights out of Robinson. It was Jones’s first win after five straight losses, so he was elated. Jones badly wanted the Robinson rematch to prove his victory was no fluke. Robinson seemed genuinely scared of his lightly regarded conqueror … and shied away from the challenge of winning a tough rematch.
Charley Burley was a magnificent boxer. The Robinson-Burley matchup would have been box office magic from late ’43 until the end of Burley’s career. Robinson was simply afraid of losing to the highly skilled master.
Clever but legal business practices often conflict with business ethics.
It’s ethical and intelligent for a boxer not to overmatch himself against more experienced opponents. It’s also a smart business practice for a world champion caliber boxer to avoid challengers he believes could beat him — but it’s not ethical.Posted January 27, 2014 4:34 pm
FOR some UNKNOWN reason my comment again wasn’t posted and ONCE AGAIN I have to astutely do a paraphrasing alteration to get it through. Ever since ESB changed their format this has become quite problem tom ESB members. This can sometimes get really annoying. Especially when time and effort is put into the comment
NOW, lets get this party started. For the “benefit” Of TARK and the millions of ESB fans around the world… LLLLLEEEEET”S GET READY TO RUMMMMM-BLLLLE!!!
This will merely be a continuation of my previous comment. Now, evidentdly you have problem in acknowledging or DIS-regarding the facts that I so generously have supplied you with. Facts that you positively were NEVER aware of BUT… in your inept effort to obtain and add an un-winnable “W” to your record. (Trying to “erase” a LOSS, yes. an “L”, that was ALREADY declared by Judge TUMBO!!)
Anyway, I already supplied UN-avoidable proof that PROVED that Mr. Moore didn’t overly pursue an encounter with Mr. Sugar Ray. As a matter of FACT, it wasn’t until 1959 does he express a de$ire face Mr. Robinson, according to a Ring Magazine article. Why?? Because didn’t have any other big money fights IN SIGHT! Maybe he thought he could make enough noise to convince Sugar-Haters like YOU that the fight needed to be made. According to the article Mr. Archie states that it was HE that gave Robby a his chance?? He did?? He was the one “giving” chances?? Excuse me while I LOLOLOL!!! And itn wasn’t until 1959??!! 1959?? kindá late, wouldn’t you say?? And WHO was Mr. Moore to be “giving Mr. Sugar Ray Robinson chances”?? I already proved the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH surrounding the Mr. Archie Moore/Mr. Maxim /Mr. Doc fight series. Yet, you UN-skillfully DUCK the FACTS!!!!!!!
Time to end for now this re-phrased comment, which was originally MORE extensive that this present. But I will probably let you have the ‘GRAND FINALE’ remaining portion a bit later.Posted January 27, 2014 11:25 am
What YOU’RE saying is what’s IRRELEVANT!! You’re avoiding the ESSENCE again and again. At first you defend Futch & Archie’s opinion and then blah blah blah…. Your integrity is NO WHERE!! I give you FACT you respond with blah blah blah. No TARK, you definitely aint all that. You can try to come off like some authority of the game but… when it come to MAN-ing UP and owning your.. “stuff”, anit got it in you. I hate to say this but you’re another BOXTRA, only maybe not as bad. Sorry but that’s the HIGHEST grade I can give you for now. But as long as you LEARNED a few things (and THAT YOU DID, whether you admit it or not) then it was worth it. I pride myself in teaching and LEARNING too. You should give it a try sometime. Oh well…Posted January 27, 2014 7:31 am
EZ E.., You bring up stuff that’s immaterial to Robinson’s ducking.
I don’t care what Archie Moore said about Cassius Clay—the name Ali was known as at the time—when Archie was hyping his fight with Clay. Archie said similar things to hype his fights with Patterson and Marciano. As to Moore’s view of Liston—the general consensus which I vehemently disagreed with—was that Liston would destroy Clay. Moore can be forgiven for picking Liston. The betting odds were 7:1 in Liston’s favor—so Archie had plenty of company.
I told everyone Clay was too young and too fast for Liston. What surprised me was the fight was dead even when Liston was forced to quit with a badly torn left biceps. I expected Clay to be ahead of old man Liston at that point. Liston looked at least 10 years older than his stated age.
Liston should have won the rematch by disqualification.
Ali refused to go to a neutral corner, which resulted in NO COUNT over Liston. Walcott was too busy chasing after Ali and pushing him to a neutral corner to give Liston a count. At the very least—the timekeeper’s count should have been suspended until Ali obeyed the rules.
Ali-Liston II was a Keystone Cops episode. The officials were clueless and made Liston—the ex-con—the fall guy.
Liston got up WITHOUT a referee’s count—and resumed fighting. Walcott went over to talk with Nat Fleischer without calling “time.” … Ali-Liston II was a comedy of stupidity and errors that has never been equaled — it was a farce.
I see you’re putting out more excuses as to why Robinson refused to rematch Maxim or fight Moore. There’s no excuse for not giving boxing fans the fights they most deserve. Jack Kearns was a smart businessman and knew Maxim-Robinson II and Moore-Robinson were box office dynamite. He was up for both fights—as was Maxim and Moore… The only nonconforming voice was Robinson’s.
Robinson had no reason not to rematch Ralph Jones—other than avoiding a damned good beating. Robinson had no reason for avoiding Charley Burley in the mid ‘40s… other than avoiding a damned good beating.Posted January 26, 2014 8:26 pm
Well I can’t spend my life posting on this subject but give me a minute.Posted January 26, 2014 8:13 pm
AND… I will appropriately interpret you silence if by chance you decide to…. Oh well, you know what I mean.Posted January 26, 2014 7:20 pm
GOT SOME MORE, MUCH MORE… Just waiting for you to say something. I know you’re there. You haven’t learned this much in years, although I’m not expecting for you to admit it. That would be against your principles. Even PROFESSORS learn when their STUDENTS are in need of extra tutoring. It makes the PROFESSOR open his books and pick up some valuable info himself.Posted January 26, 2014 7:15 pm
I have more, MUCH more! More info and FACTS. I discovered some articles and expert opinions in my 1950s Ring, Boxing Illustrated and other boxing magazines along with some irrefutable facts. I have to astutely rephrase it because the comment will no longer post as is. Actually, too much trouble, you anit worth the time. You’ll duck’em like you ALWAYS do. Senseless?? Oh well…. maybe(??) I’m jumping the gun.Posted January 26, 2014 11:55 am
This so easy that it’s becoming a bore. No longer fun… hmmm… ahhhh…. (before I leave for church) ahhh… Where do I begin…. Okay, so Mr. Sugar Ray retired, yep, he retired. And.. it was to avoid/duck Mr. Archie and Mr. Joey or BOTH at the SAME time?? Before Archie won the title?? That makes no sense, does it?? Or AFTER Mr.Robinson was drubbing Maxim 6 months earlier?? That doesn’t make too much sense either. I guess your money would’ve been a Joey in a rematch. Were you a fan back then??
Anyway, in your PERSONAL book of “boxing knowledge” does it mention that Mr. Moore was in THEE obligation to give Mr. Maxim a return fight? Do you know why? NO?? Well, truthfully because not only was it stipulated BUT the fact IS that both Mr. Maxim and Mr. Moore were then ASTUTELY managed by the SAME manager, Mr. “Doc” Kearns himself. He not only matched them for Moore’s title winning victory, but also TWICE MORE, which made it unable for Mr. Moore to fight ANYONE else more the next few years, until his contract with Kearns ran it’s course, of course. You are AWARE of who “Tricky” Doc was, huh?? google it. But this info I was aware of before my teen years, no lying!! When Mr. Moore FI-nally broke off with “Doc” he went the heavyweight title. The rest is history, the FACTS, accept them or not or whatever.. it doesn’t actually matter. The truth is that neither Mr. Mayweather nor ATG Mr. Robinson were the originators of the “sport”of ducking, it was TARK, ask him, but he’ll surly avoid his OWN question, he’s that kind’a guy. hmmmm…Posted January 26, 2014 11:26 am
My comment won’t go through, Lucky lucky you!!Posted January 26, 2014 10:43 am
I have to got through this testing stuff to to avoid problems posting THE FACTS!!!Posted January 26, 2014 9:22 am
tark stick to mma you pri#k.Posted January 26, 2014 7:57 am
What difference does it make when you retire??? … Plenty.
You can conveniently retire because you dont want to fight someone. For months Lennox Lewis said he would rematch Vitali Klitschko; then he retired.
What difference does it make if an unranked fighter, on a long losing streak, trounces you in your 2nd fight back from retirement??? Rematch him to prove you were rusty.
Ali, Leonard, Vitali Klitschko, and many others took MORE time off; and came back and beat better fighters in their FIRST fight back.Posted January 25, 2014 11:21 pm
EZ E.., You’re argument has been roundly trounced — you missed the point.
You’re writing a book to prove that Robinson was a great fighter… Everybody knows he was great… I never disputed that fact.. Floyd Mayweather, Oscar De La Hoya, Ray Leonard, and M. Ali were all great… That doesn’t mean they never ducked a fighter. This is my only point. I’m not saying anything against Sugar Ray Robinson’s greatness … He had a fabulous career.
But Ray was a ducker—pure and simple … just like many others.
Ralph Jones lost his previous five (5) fights in a row prior to beating up Sugar Ray Robinson… It was embarrassing for Robinson to get his butt kicked by such a low caliber boxer who was coming off a winless streak.
Robinson tried to pawn the Jones loss off as a fluke—but Jones had his number.. If Jones knocked the tar out of Robinson AGAIN, or knocked him TFO, that would have been terrible for Robinson’s legacy … so Ray didn’t give Jones the deserved chance to beat him decisively twice in a row.
Jones deserved that chance—and Robinson should have given it to him.
Robinson gave up weight to Maxim. That didn’t stop the highly hyped super star from being the betting favorite.. Robinson and his many fans tried to pawn the Maxim loss off as a freak happening caused by the heat. It was just as hot for Maxim. But if the slow, light hitting Maxim beat Robinson again it would have been terrible for Robinson’s legacy … so he didn’t give Maxim the chance to knock him out twice in a row. He should have.
If you’re willing to fight weak champions like Maxim—but not strong champions like Moore—that shows you’re cherry-picking. Archie Moore beat Maxim 3 times and might have knocked Robinson out faster than Joey did. Ray didn’t want to take that chance so he ducked Archie.
Charley Burley had a long career… Promoters were trying to match Burley with Robinson before Robinson won the WW title… Robinson fought many terrible fighters—but wouldn’t fight Burley.
WIKIPEDIA on Charley Burley…, “Among the fighters who ducked Charley Burley were Hall of Famers Billy Conn … Frenchman Marcel Cerdan … Jake LaMotta … and even Sugar Ray Robinson.”
This proves the ducking perception was there—and for good reason.Posted January 25, 2014 10:55 pm
Right.., Floyd doesn’t need Lara, Garcia, or Pacquiao either.Posted January 25, 2014 10:51 pm
BTW, In my LONG comment I meant to say, “…his (Archie’s) need for Ray came later.”
I’m sure WE can agree that Ray didn’t need Archie.Posted January 25, 2014 6:43 pm
TARK Read I hope you read my last comment with objectivity. Forget the put downs and other stuff. And like I’ve told you before, FOCUS on the ESSENCE of the content, not just getting pissed & looking to prove yourself ‘right’ at all cost, sorry but that how I read you. Gotta go!! Will be back, for a look see. As for my nephew. He’s a young man, early 20s, was a fairly good ex-amateur fighter, some local amateur titles, but knew that a boxing career wasn’t what he was cut out for, nor wanted to invest his health in. Doing well as a self-employed plummer. Is also a novice trainer but learning fast. Will be a major force on ESB in the future. After all, he has ME!!Posted January 25, 2014 6:24 pm
I have to test again. I sent something and got a “Posting too quickly” response and hadn’t posted in hours.Posted January 25, 2014 5:19 pm
Anonymous.., Boxing is stronger globally than it’s EVER been.
The 3 richest fights and biggest PPV’s in fistic history have happened in the last decade. The biggest live gates have happened in the last decade. The 5 biggest fights in European History have happened in the last decade. Two recent Heavyweight Championship fights where fought in Moscow Russia and a major fight took place in Macau China, a country that still has a Communist Government. A Chinese professional boxer appeared on the card.
There are more boxers, more divisions, more champions, more shows, and 168 countries worldwide now have organized boxing events.
So you’re a flat out IDIOT!!! A kneejerk reactionary FOOL!!!Posted January 25, 2014 1:50 pm
TARK, okay, I’ll come back at you ONE more time for some LIGHT sparring. Stay tuned, gotta run some errands for the Mrs, my BOSS and…. MAN enough to admit it!!Posted January 25, 2014 12:52 pm
boxing today is the weakest it has ever been. PERIOD.Posted January 25, 2014 11:35 am
EZ E.., You’re living in Zu Zu land… You’re beyond knocked senseless… You’re beaten to death to your fingertips and ready to give.
You don’t know the history between Te Tumbo and me—and my pointing out to Tumbo that Oscar De La Hoya ducked Winky Wright when they were both Super Welterweight World Champions… Wright wanted a unification fight—but Te Tumbo thought it was fine for Oscar to fight a no risk walk-over fight with washed up Yory Boy Campas instead.. I knew Oscar was never going to fight Wright.. That’s OK, because the courageous Shane Mosley finally faced up to Wright and Winky was able to unify… That was one of our many keyboard disputes—so taking your side is a given for Tumbo.
No one else except your kin sharing your keyboard much cares.
But if Te Tumbo says neither of us would accept his verdict—and the battle is raging in his view—I consider that a compliment considering our opposing viewpoints on Oscar and tons of other issues.
My last 2 posts stand unchallenged… Your pathetic attempts to justify the flagrant ducking by Sugar Ray Robinson of the Ralph Jones rematch—a fight where Robinson got badly hammered by a massive underdog… Robinson’s ducking of the Joey Maxim rematch—a fight where Robinson exhausted himself and quit in his corner… Robinson’s flagrant ducking the Charlie Burley fight in the mid 1940s—a worthy opponent whom both Eddie Futch and Archie Moore said was the greatest fighter of all time … and finally, Robinson’s flagrant ducking of the Archie Moore clash for the light heavyweight title — a fight everybody wanted to see and would have been the biggest blockbuster event of Robinson’s career.
Robinson truly brought ducking to new heights of ingenuity in his avoidance of Ralph Jones… Charley Burley… Joey Maxim… and Archie Moore.Posted January 25, 2014 2:43 am
TUMBO Besides, my fingertips are badly battered and bruised from the CONSTANT and VICIOUS keyboard beating that I handed out these last few days. I hope my health plan covers massacres!! LOL!!Posted January 25, 2014 12:04 am
TUMBO I have to get ready for work. I’ll accept the your wide 10-4-1 verdict and give TARK a rematch on another article WHENEVER he recovers and wants one. Oh well, off to work!!Posted January 24, 2014 11:55 pm
TUMBO Orale Carnal, IT’S OVER!! He’s punch drunk’, the Randy “Tex” Cobb of ESB. He can’t even see what’s coming!! This has been too easy/EZ! Soon the ESB moderators will either RETIRE HIM or have me ARRESTED for ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY KEYBOARD, CAUSING MENTAL ANGUISH, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A NOVICE, SADISTIC CYBER TORTURE and a load of other internet crimes.
Tell me TUMBO, although I’m really not trying to drag you into this abuse because if he CAN’T handle me how would he handle the both of US??!!! NEVER!! Thanks just the same but I GOT THIS.
Anyway Carnal, my question to you is: When have you ever heard of such fantastic FIRST YEAR credentials before?? I won’t ask TARK because…. ahhhh… Okay TUMBO, allow me to put it this way: Do you remember the Larry Holmes vs Marvis Frazier fight?? As Holmes had young Frazier trapped in the corner and DEFENSELESS he would MERCIFULLY look at ref Mills Lane trying to tell the him, “Man, stop this”!! When the ref hesitated he pummeled Marvis a bit more!! AGAIN the HUMANITARIN Holmes looked towards ref Lane who didn’t react quick enough. You can see by the look on Holmes’ face that became ANNOYED with Mills for not putting an end to this MASSACRE!! Holmes gave Marvis one more more volley of right hands before Lane FINALLY stopped the fight.
Well, I consider myself MERCIFUL and a HUMANITARIAN. I refuse to PUMMEL this DEFENSELESS OVER-MATCHED novice that just plain & simply doesn’t know any better. Actually, He needs a caring hug. If anybody lives close by to TARK and is willing to REACH OUT and give him a hug of encouragement, please contact this boxing site.
Later carnal, Paz!!Posted January 24, 2014 11:48 pm
“TUMBO, no need to begin the TEN COUNT… IT’S OVER!!”(?!?). apparently this scrap has either carried over to the post-fight press conference or has become a bare-knuckled matchup exceeding the 15-round limit(?!). to be continued, i guess, since neither of you are likely to tap out, accept a KO loss, or accept my 15-round scorecard verdict. “Ding!” Round 20 coming up. Good Stuff. i will catch you two on Page 1 . . . Peace.Posted January 24, 2014 6:40 pm
As far as EZ E is concerned, he’s down for the count and then some.
His pathetic attempts to justify flagrant ducking by Sugar Ray Robinson of the Ralph Jones rematch… Where Robinson got badly hammered by a huge underdog… and Robinson’s ducking of the Joey Maxim rematch—where Robinson exhausted himself and quit in his corner… and of Robinson’s flagrant ducking the Charlie Burley fight in the mid ’40s—a worthy opponent who Eddie Futch and Archie Moore said was the greatest fighter of all time … and of Robinson’s flagrant ducking of the Archie Moore clash for the light heavyweight title—a fight everybody wanted to see …
Those lame excuses for Robbie’s ducking don’t even deserve comment.Posted January 24, 2014 5:06 pm
Floyd Mayweather would have beaten both Sugar Ray’s decisively on points. They were way too easy to hit … and Floyd is a master defender.
Ralph Jones lost his previous five (5) fights when he was cherry-picked as a Sugar Ray Robinson opponent… But Jones hit the wide open Robinson with the kitchen sink. Jones was a strong attacker and infighter but not a hard puncher. Robinson wasn’t any good at Jones’s quick fisted infighting style of fighting. Jones absolutely trounced Sugar Ray Robinson and Ray refused to give the rugged battler a rematch for any money.
But Sugar Ray Leonard was a bigger ducker than Robinson by far.
After he upset a plodding Marvin Hagler, Leonard’s top middleweight challengers were Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum. Ray ducked them even after they won versions of the middleweight title stripped from Leonard. Leonard was only 34 when he cherry-picked China chinned Terry Norris. But Norris had a quick fisted boxing style that completely flummoxed Leonard. Leonard was so bamboozled by Norris’s flashing fists he didn’t win a single round on my scorecard. Norris floored Leonard twice and mopped the floor with Ray.
The speedy Terry Norris couldn’t even qualify to fight Oscar De La Hoya… because he got knocked out by novice Keith Mullins in a warm up fight.
And as far as Floyd Mayweather goes—he’s ducking too…
I believe Floyd might be beaten if he faced Lara, Garcia, and Pacquiao consecutively. He’s never faced any prime fighters with their combinations of power, speed, and skill … I would love to see those fights. If Floyd fights Khan it would be a continuation of the ducking tradition mastered by Robinson and Leonard.Posted January 24, 2014 4:51 pm
TUMBO Que pasa mi amigo! Good judge! maybe texas commission needs to hire you. When el Tark wakes up from knockout do you think he will want to brush tio Eze’s hair? yes? hahaPosted January 24, 2014 11:28 am
ANONYMOUS You might be right, maybe not have kayo’d Floyd but I would’ve pick them BOTH to defeat him. Both Rays had most of their problems with fighters that pressured them, Floyd is NOT known to be pressure fighter, especially if/when facing fighters like Robinson & Leonard. Both Rays were intelligent tacticians, exellent hand speed and definitely more punching power. Floyd is a great fighter but… due to their/his styles, he loses. Oh, ohhhh… TARK aint gonna like this. Once he wakes from his KAYO’d status, smelling salts and what not, he’ll go on ANOTHER anti-Ray rampage BUT this time he’ll have TWO Rays to pick from. “Lucky” him. Peace!Posted January 24, 2014 9:04 am
both sugar ray”s would of stopped mayweather no problem.Posted January 24, 2014 8:15 am
TUMBO Wait until I tell TONY, maybe I’ll call him at his job or should wait until he returns. He and his wife will be our guest for the rest of the weekend, too. Plenty fights cards scheduled! Paz y Respeto from us too!Posted January 24, 2014 8:12 am
FIGHT ANALYST/COMMENTATOR TUMBO, I don’t have much time. I’m leaving it all IN THIS LAST ROUND!! I’m sure that I’m ahead on the cards but… I’M GOING FOR THE KNOCKOUT!!
TARK, now that you’re knit picking Ray’s lesser opponents, I can easily do the same on Burley and Moore. But I’ll go in another direction, yes, STRAIGHT AT YOU!!
Timekeeper, whenever you’re ready… DING!! The traditional touching of the gloves beginning the FINAL round while the crowd chants DURO! DURO! DURO! Okay, LET’S GET IT ON!!
The 19 year old Ray turned pro in Oct. 1940, and with 2 months of pro experience Ray is matched in a scheduled 8 rounder vs faded ex-contender Noman Quarles, a vet of over 100 fights, winner of 70 of them. Ray PULVERIZES this fighter we can compare to a modern day DeMarcus Corley in FOUR rounds. Not bad for a TWO month pro. The pattern continues. With only FIVE months pro experience he faces very tough ex-contender and well known 44-11-5 Jimmy Tygh, you might’ve heard of him, in a scheduled TEN rounder. Ray finishes the durable vet in 8 rounds. One month later ray repeats the favor, but this time he stops Tygh FIRST round! So far not too shabby at all for a FIVE month pro. But I’m sure TARK is NOT remotely impressed, not in the least, huh? Allow me to pick you apart even more….
Now, here’s where it get good ‘n interesting. In early July ’41 with 9 months as a pro the 137LBs Ray faces a very popular and feared fighter named Pete Lello, 45-8-7 & the THIRD ranked Lightweight in the world. Check the a March/’41 Ring Magazine’s issue, YES, he is ranked third. The NINE month pro Ray not only beat him, he stopped him in FOUR rounds! (Sounds like Ray was a real “ducker” since CHILDHOOD, huh TARK??)
And then LESS than THREE weeks later the STILL NINE MONTH PRO faces and CONVINCINGLY whips Sammy Angott, the world NUMBER ONE lightweight contender and future HOFér!! BOTH weighed in a same day 136LBS for this fight but TARK miserably points out in an earlier post that out that it wasn’t “fair” because Ray was… ahhh… taller?? My oh my Lord, what this guy will stoop to in a vain effort to “win” an argument/debate. sheeeesh…
Get this, Angott went on to win World LIghtweight Championship later that SAME year and went on to beat champion HALL OF FAMERS like Bob “Bob Cat” Montgomery, Ike Williams and was the first to defeat the TOP TEN GOAT WILLIE PEP!! Yes, it was ANGOTT who broke Willies’s SIXTY TWO fight winning streak!! Yeah, that 20year old NINE MONTH PRO Ray Robinson really knew how to “DUCK’EM”, huh??
WAIT, it anit over yet!! There’s MORE!! Ray STILL hasn’t finished his FIRST YEAR/TWELVE MONTH AS A PRO YET!!
On Sept 19, 1941 Ray wipes out FOREVER Lighweight contender & ever popular Maxie Shapiro, 50-6-2, in THREE rounds. It was a one-sided no contest!!
Ray follows that one, ONE WEEK LATER!! I repeat, ONE WEEK LATER, with unanimously beats FUTURE Welterweight king and UN-defeated Marty Servo, 42-0!! Yes, FORTY TWO and ZERO!!
AND THAT AINT ALL!! And then… ONE a month laterr, “DUCKER” Sugar Ray Robinson wraps up his FIRST YEAR as a professional fighter beating the pants off of the RECENTLY dethroned World Welterweight Champion Fritzie Zivic, who in turn had dethroned and then kayo’d none other than the recognized TOP FIVE GOAT HOFér “HAMMAERING/HOMICIDE” HENRY ARMSTRONG!! hmmm… “Yeah” TARK, that Ray fella was a “DUCKER” alright, huh??
The so, man known as “ONLY” Sugar Ray Robinson, ends his FIRST year a pro fighter. AND…. BEGINS his SECOND as the NUMBER ONE RANKED WELTERWEIGHT CONTENDER!! according to the Ring’s Annual Ratings issue of February 1942.
In other words, in Ray’s FIRST year as a pro, Ray takes out the CREAM of the Lightweight division, whips future HOFérs and future WORLD CHAMPIONS and…. is the NUMBER ONE, NUMERO UNO RANKED WORLD WELTERWEIGHT CHALLENGER!!
Does that sound like Ray would have been of frightened Burley?? or Moore?? So… I guess you’d consider Floyd a DUCKER too if he retires before facing Andre Ward?? POW!!
TUMBO, no need to begin the TEN COUNT… IT’S OVER!!Posted January 24, 2014 7:54 am
getting ready to end this, testPosted January 24, 2014 6:59 am
Q-Vo TONY. all you’ve gotta do is read these posts and ask your Tio if they’re right. so far he’s been 100% correct every time i’ve agreed with him, which is about 95% of the time. EZ’s the only ESB expert i trust. a gentleman and diplomat, which is why i’ve been chuckling at the steam rising off of some of his posts on this thread (lol). Paz y Respeto to EZ and Familia.Posted January 24, 2014 3:17 am
EZ E…. LOOK.. Robinson never weighed below 157.5 at a time when he was seeking the Light Heavyweight Title—and ever after.. He admitted he came in too light for Maxim but he was weighing over 157 for that fight and ALL his fights after that — a time when any Moore fight would have taken place… Don’t make him a jr. middleweight.
A lot of middleweight champions challenged for the LHW Title.. It wasn’t unusual at all.. Robinson said he wanted the light heavyweight title…but he refused to fight Moore for it. FACT!!!
Moore was older than Robinson, had been knocked out a few times, and had been “worn down” by more fights… He fought higher caliber boxers than Robinson did.. Moore fought guys like Burley.. Charles.. Marshall.. Williams.. Marciano.. Patterson.. Clay.. Harold Johnson.. and pretty much any great fighter who wanted to fight him — That’s the difference between Archie and Robbie.Posted January 23, 2014 10:44 pm
Tony.., Burley split a pair of fights with Lytell.. That hardly an excuse for Robinson not fighting Burley earlier in the 1940’s when promoters were trying to match them up.
I don’t agree with the assertion by Eddie Futch, Archie Moore, and some others that Burley was the GOAT. But Moore was especially impressed with Burley and I talked to other fighters who fought Burley who thought he was unbelievable.
He wasn’t the GOAT — but he was damned good.
Robinson fought a lot of guys who WEREN’T ANY GOOD… When Promoters were trying to match Ray with Burley he was fighting guys like Izzy Jannazzo and Vic Dellicurti..
Dellicurti won only 2 of his last 13 fights when Robinson fought him. Better to get a certain victory than risk getting your butt kicked in by Charley Burley.Posted January 23, 2014 10:22 pm
the last comment was not me,but i agree with my tio. the proof is there. maybe I sound bias with my family but It makes no difference, the facts are facts. Burly was great fighter especially if Eze say so. hahaPosted January 23, 2014 9:46 pm
TUMBO My nephew TONY is sharing my computer and a good knowledgable novice. Don’t get us confused. He might sound immature but he knows a bit of his stuff. He better! LOL!!Posted January 23, 2014 9:40 pm
D with all due respects but no, Charley had already fallen off the radar years before he retired and his skills along with him. Read further down in my comments. He had stopped being a ranked fighter for years. I have the P-R-O-O-F, not just talking to hear myself talk. After Charley lost the rematch to Bert Lyell in 1947 he did n’t beat any significantly credible opposition. The only notable fighter he did face in his final THREE years of his career was Doc Williams with a 29-7-2 record in April ’49 and he lost that one too. As a matter of fact, besides Lyell the last good fighter he defeated after this win over Archie Moore was Jack Chase in Sept/’44. But no, Charley’s skills weren’t close to the what they were when he defeated Moore, far from it, they left him rather prematurely. The wear and tear of his busy fight agenda had taken it’s toll, as did other fighters like him, rather common back in Charley’s years.Posted January 23, 2014 9:36 pm
it’s very rare for EZ E to get hot under the collar and he’s typically patient, tolerant, and generous with lesser posters but Tark’s getting no slack or leeway (lol). EZ’s on a mission . . . “Duro!-Duro!-DURO!”Posted January 23, 2014 9:27 pm
TONY, you never know when Tark will choose to match boxing-wits with another ESB heavyweight but when he does it happens on Page 2. IMO, EZ E is the straight-shooting irrefutable expert with an almost Gump-like knack for personally witnessing some historic boxing events. inside and outside the ring. Tark is a crafty hypnotist who’ll attempt to hypnotize readers into believing HIS version of reality. anyway, championship rounds are here and though Tark was reeling he’s discarded the clowning to deliver a couple of flashy and well-placed combos but this scrap isn’t going to be decided by style points. the bout’s become increasingly technical and Tark’s behind on points but EZ continues to go for the KO. “Ding!” Round 14 and page 3 is closing in.Posted January 23, 2014 9:21 pm
Burley wasn’t at the end of his career in 1946. He was 28. He fought several more years with no drop off in skill and retired at 32. There was plenty of time to for Robinson to fight him if he wanted to.Posted January 23, 2014 7:53 pm
Great stuff. TARK by KO!!!
The name calling goes to EZ EPosted January 23, 2014 7:45 pm
EZ E.., you’re entitled to your own opinion—but NOT your own facts.
Your facts are pure fantasy in this case.
From 1943 to through 1950 there were frequent efforts by promoters to match Charley Burley with Sugar Ray Robinson… Those efforts went for naught.
Burley wanted the fight badly—Robinson wasn’t interested…
They both fought middleweights and welterweights ranked and unranked… There was a good deal of public interest in seeing the fight—as both were great fighters—but you can’t make a horse drink and Robinson obviously didn’t want to get embarrassed by the masterful Burley.
You’re wrong about Robinson’s average weight being 155 at that time.
From the time Robinson KO’d Randy Turpin in 1951 to the end of his career he never weighed under 157.25… He weighed as much as 165.5, and he was most often 160 or over. He didn’t display interest in the Light Heavyweight Championship until 1952 when he fought Maxim—so we’re not talking about his earlier career.
Robinson-Maxim was a spectacular success… The fight was not available on home TV. Fans were forced to go to their local theater and pay to see it, which they did.. It drew 48,000 fans for the live gate.. A rematch would have done even better.. A Ray Robinson vs Archie Moore fight would have been a blockbuster event—and promoters certainly tried to make the fight.
Moore wanted the fight so badly he talked to Robinson about it. Robinson simply didn’t want the fight. Like I said, Floyd didn’t invent ducking.Posted January 23, 2014 7:36 pm
lmao @ the court trial. Eze where do you get your material? haha really liked the way he mixed comedy with great boxing smarts. worth reading again. hahaPosted January 23, 2014 6:42 pm
te tumbo, didn’t realize what was going on this thread. the title threw me off. brilliant. Eze knows his stuff. Tark too but out gunned. reminds me of FMJ v Gatti. not a diss.Posted January 23, 2014 6:06 pm
ray robinson. the best there ever was period.Posted January 23, 2014 4:26 pm
TARK No, the Sugarman’s weight doesn’t come down, dude. IF.. you were tiny bit SMARTER, which you evidently AREN’T at all, you would’ve figured out that it was Ray’s average weight as a Middleweight during that time span that I was referring to. I should’ve known that bit of info was too much for your.. ahhh… brain (?) to assimilate and would go WAAAAAYYY over your dense head. What a waste of valuable knowledge, Oh well…
Now, time to take you to school. Take out your pens and paper, take notes. Don’t worry, this won’t take long. Let’s go directly to Ray “ducking” Moore.
2. Up til that time there was NO talk of a Robinson vs Moore fight BECAUSE Moore was still conentrated on winning the HEAVYWEIGHT title. He had already failed in his first attempt Vs Marciano in Sept. 1955 but now the title was vacant and Moore wanted THAT, not Robinson. (My Ring Magazine collection will verify this, aside from what I would hear and there from my uncle & dad, both of whom trained and handled fighters since the ’40s.
3. Moore had to wait until Floyd Patterson defeated Tommy “Hurricane”Jackson in a 12 round elimination fight in June/1956, setting the stage for Moore vs Patterson in Nov/56. As you know Patterson. The year 1956 ends, STILL no talk about Moore vs Robinson. WHY?? Simply because Moore in demanding a rematch with Floyd
4. The beginning of 1957 starts with Ray losing his title to Fullmer but has a rematch clause set for May, which he wins with what the experts considered and proclaimed “The Most PERFECT Punch Ever Thrown”! (needless to say that it was BEFORE the shot Marquez landed on Pac) In the Ring July57 issue there in a recap of the fight, Moore is not mentioned but Carmen Basilio is. Anyway during 1957 Moore only made ONE title defense. He was focused on the HEAVYWEIGHT division, weighing as much as 206LB and fought the rest of his 5 fights that year EXCLUSIVELY as a HEAVYWEIGHT!! The year 1957 ends and STILL no talk of a Robinson vs Moore fight. Why?? Because Robinson lost his title again!! This time to Carmen Basilio. And one again there’s a REMATCH clause. Moore STILL, STILL, STILL… wants Patterson. Who could blame him, that’s were the MONEY is at!!
5. In March/1958 Robinson regains title again. from Basilio, and rumors of a fight with Moore begin to surface. Moore engages in 9 HEAVYWEIGHT fights, calling out Floyd after every bout and but also expresses interest in Robinson. Finally, in December he makes his first defense in FOURTEEN MONTHS, his unforgettable multiple knockdown classic war with Yvon Durrelle. The fans insist a rematch, which in FACT will take place in August 1959. In EXCLUSIVE articles in Ring Magazine’s October (page 3) & November of 1958 (page 10) report the fans interest in the Robinson vs Basilio rubber match . Meanwhile, the interest and any talks of Robinson vs Moore are ‘temporarily’ put on “HOLD”.
6. In 1959 the Moore takes advantage of the substantial interest & pur$e of the Durrelle rematch. Any thoughts of a fight with Robinson will have to wait until next year. Meanwhile the son to be 39 year old Robinson ponders retirement and remains inactive for well over a year and signs to fight Paul Pender in January 1960, Robinson accepts a tune up a month before vs Bob Young and scores 2 ROUND KAYO. It was the fading Ray’s 150th professional fight.
7. 1960: For Moore’s next fight he weighs 206Lbs, stopping Willi Besmanoff in the 10th round, a bit too heavy and a bit too late, Robinson lost close and controversially to Pender. Moore will go 22 months before making his next & final defense vs Italian Guilio Rinaldi, who defeated months earlier. Robinson will lose a another disputed split decision to Pender months after their first encounter.
Class DISMISSED!! If you wish to verify any of the above be my guest. I will NOT lie to for the sake of winning a debate, that I’ve ALWAYS left up to YOU!!Posted January 23, 2014 4:26 pm
I’m gonna make a test. My last response was eaten up by another “You’re posting too quickly” message.Posted January 23, 2014 4:23 pm
“Robinson is on my list of 50 greatest boxers of all time” (LoL). that was a zinger of a backhanded compliment. not even top-10? or 25(?!), but it’s a Bluff. all a Bluff and the crowd begins to chant “Duro!-Duro!-DURO!”Posted January 23, 2014 12:33 pm
(Audience Applause) i hope that this is only intermission(?!). ESB’s P4Ps duking it out Trinidad v. Whittaker style. i’m reading and learning as always from EZ E and alternately nodding and chuckling at Tark. the “Sweet Pea” of ESB. lots of slipping and sliding, shucking and ducking, feinting and moving, but unable to avoid the KD or busted jaw. EZ, confidently stalking while patiently setting-up his powershots for a comfortable UD but Tark’s a scrapper. to hear him tell it, HE’s always got YOU preCISEly where he wants You (lol). a chess player v. a poker player and Tark is a notorious bluffer. “Ding!” Round 10. i’ll be back for Round 13.Posted January 23, 2014 12:27 pm
What the HELL difference did it make if Moore fought Heavyweights???
That only made Moore all the more courageous… He started boxing as a welterweight and eventually became the Light Heavyweight Campion. He fought as a light heavyweight…and Robinson perviously fought as a light heavyweight challenging for the Light Heavyweight Championship against Joey Maxim — so it was a good matchup.
But Robinson wouldn’t do the same as he did in the Maxim fight and challenge Archie Moore for a fight that promoters were very anxious to stage because it was HUGE money.
And every time you post Robinson loses more weight… Now he’s down to 155… Pretty soon he’ll be a lightweight… Archie Moore fought as a welterweight… He fought Charley Burley when he had over 50 fights and got the snot knocked out him, getting knocked down 4 times.
Charley Burley never weighed much over 150 and was forced to fight light heavyweights, and you mentioned one, but Robinson refused to take on Moore — the biggest fight going at the time after Moore beat Maxim for the title. Robinson had just given Maxim a great fight.
And who gives a damn if Burley wasn’t ranked by Ring in a certain year or issue???? Ring rankings are political and always were… Many, including Archie Moore and Eddie Fuch believed Charley Burley was the GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME… That in itself was enough for Robinson to fight such a great opponent… But he refused when he had the chance… eariler in the 40’s… Check Robinson’s record and you’re see that he actually fought a ton of opponents who were much lower caliber than Burley … as he was ducking around Burley.Posted January 22, 2014 8:43 pm
And for the sake of you not making a complete baboon out of yourself, by me saying that Moore and/or his opponents fought more as HEAVYWEIGHTS than as LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS I was OF COURSE referring to Moore’s and Robinson’s 1951+ beyond years, when you alleged that Robinson was “DUCKING” Moore. In 21 of Moore’s 25 fights during 1951/52 he and/or his opponent or BOTH weighed beyond the LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT weight limit. Ya dig??Posted January 22, 2014 8:19 pm
TARK said “You got totally got off course and accused me of hating on Robinson, a fighter I’ve always admired… Robinson is on my list of 50 greatest boxers of all time.”
STOP THE PRESSES!! HOLD THE PHONES!! Sugar Ray’s on TARK’s list of the greatest 50 fighters of all time!! WOW!! What an HONOR!! WHO would ever think Robby worthy of such an “HONOR”?? I guess I should contact his survivors and let them know!! This is wonderful ground breaking news!! I bet they’ll be absolutely THRILLED!! I myself am being overcome with emotion. Somebody give me a hanky. Weep, weep… VIVA TARK!! VIVA TARK!! VIVA!! VIVA!! VIVA!!
(“… a fighter I’ve always admired”?? Oh my, this guy MUST be disturbed!! Forgive him Lord, for he know NOT what he says. Can I get an AMEN??!!Posted January 22, 2014 7:58 pm
TARK said “EZ E.., You’re being ridiculous and you know it. Winky Wright was no Ray Robinson, but he was a skilled boxer and a good tough middleweight.
You got totally got off course and accused me of hating on Robinson, a fighter I’ve always admired… Robinson is on my list of 50 greatest boxers of all time. I have him ahead of Ralph Jones, who completely dominated Robinson—and ahead of Joey Maxim, who proved more durable than Robinson. Those guys are not in my top 500.
My point was simply that Robinson ducked his toughest possible opponents, Charley Burley and Archie Moore. Robinson knew they were too good for him. He mistakenly believed he could beat Ralph Jones and Joey Maxim.”
Firstly, you haven’t answered my fact based questions, just cowardly AVOIDING, FLIP-FLOPPING & DIVERTING again and again. Do i have to remind you what I’m referring to?? I do?? Hilarious!! Get a REAL life.
I’ll stop there, no need to fill it my comment with any more of your nonsense.
Firstly TARK, I wss praising Winky and never compared him to Robinson, don’t play.. ahhh.. dumb? Now honestly I SHOULDN’T even HONOR you with any more of my KNOWLEDGEABLE & FACT FILLED rebuttals simply because you REFUSE to answer my fact based questions. You’re just cowardly AVOIDING, FLIP-FLOPPING & DIVERTING again and again. Do I have to remind you what I’m referring to?? I do?? Hilarious!! Get a REAL life.
But okay, for the sake of entertaining the members on ESB, WHY on earth SHOULD the 155LB Robinson fight LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT Archie Moore, who actually fought MORE as a HEAVYWEIGHT that he did as a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT?? Check his record. The proof is in the pudding!! LISTEN AND LEARN!!: In TWENTY ONE out of Moore’s 25 fights during 1951/52 the weights either Moore or his opponent and/or usually BOTH were in the then HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION!! A year before Sugar Ray was the ONLY champ of the WELTERWEIGHTS!! In your urgency to downgrade an obviously ATG fighter like Sugar Ray Robinson and for the sake of saving face and/or “win” an UN-WINNABLE argument you’re making yourself look like a fanatical chump. You’re NO competition, a novice, I can whip you with my keyboard tied behind my back!! LOL!! But let’s continue….
BUT before I do, since you’re Boxing’s new WHO ducked WHO “expert”, will you “please” tell me WHY didn’t Archie REMATCH Burley, who beat him down in April/1944, knocking him down FOUR times in the process?? Oh well.. back to business.
NEXT on your list of accusations” is Charley Burley, who I rank highly and won’t dare offend the memory of this truly GREAT WARRIOR for the sake of winning an argument that I’ve ALREADY won. To begin with Charley WASN’T even a ranked fighter when Robinson relinquished his UNDISPUTED World WELTERWEIGHT title. I have in front of me the original May 1952 issue of the Ring Magazine ratings when Robby defeated LaMotta and Burley’s name is NOWHERE to be found!! Neither does he appear in the Rings ANNUAL 1951 ratings SIX months earlier. NOR.. does he appear in the TOP TEN of Ring Magazines February 1950 ANNUAL RATINGS. No TARK, he DOESN’T. WHY?? Because he was barley active since 1947 after losing to a pretty good fighter Bert Lyell and ALREADY RETIRED IN 1950. He was NEVER ranked during the ENTIRE years of 1948 & 1949 neither, although Lyell was. The latest I RESPECTFULLY traced Charley being a TOP TEN ranked fighter was in Ring’s August 1947 issue, LESS than a year after Robinson won the WELTERWEIGHT title. The middleweight rankings for October 1947 included Champ Graziano, and then in order: LaMotta, Zale, Al Hostak, Lyell, Cerdan, along with other names you might “remember” like Fred Apostoli, Georgie Abrams and Steve Belloise.
So, as for your zany and very UN-substantiated allegations that Robinson “DUCKED” Charley Burley and Archie Moore baseless argument, as you/we can ALL see that ONLY in a mind like YOUR’S can anyone concoct these ridiculous accusations.
All my RESPECTS to Archie and Charley, BOTH truly GREATS!!
THIS PROVES THAT THE “TRIAL” OF TARK UN-DENIABLY MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE and… THE JUDGES RULING WAS A JUST & CORRECT ONE.
(TARK, stop, you’ve made yourself look bad enough. but I know you’ll be back for more, the true Randy “Tex” Cobb of ESB!)Posted January 22, 2014 7:26 pm
I’m posting too quickly??Posted January 22, 2014 7:21 pm
You see Fred… the PED era included the 1960’s… 70’s… 80’s… 90’s… That’s when all the athletes were doping; then it became illegal; then cheaters got caught in droves and embarrassed; then they stopped cheating and started eating right… The Lance Armstrong era and the decades immediately preceding it ushered that in—because Lance will symbolize cheating forever.
All those boxing stars from the 1960’s through the 90’s were on PED’s Fred.
So what it is: Now with Floyd and the men pushing for OSDT’s and the enhanced testing procedures that are being developed, all the cheats are getting caught and their asses are getting fried to the floor. They’re freezing those urine and blood samples in perpetuity—and when new testing methods are developed they’ll go back, retest, and fry your ass.
So what happened to Lance, Roy, Berto, Nando, James, Erik, Lamont, and all the rest is pretty much eliminating PED freaks from major individual sports like Boxing.. It’s a new era and only the stupid will risk PED use today.. The benefits are dubious—because all the above got their asses KTFO Fred.Posted January 22, 2014 6:45 pm
tark stick to modern hype jobs prima donnas and ped cheats they sound like your cup of tea.Posted January 22, 2014 4:19 pm
BTW… I watched Robinson fight live many times. I don’t consider myself old because physically I can do anything a youngster can do, and quite a few feats most of them could never do.
Like Herschel Walker says, “The idea is not to get older, it’s to get better.”Posted January 22, 2014 3:26 pm
EZ E.., You’re being ridiculous and you know it. Winky Wright was no Ray Robinson, but he was a skilled boxer and a good tough middleweight.
You got totally got off course and accused me of hating on Robinson, a fighter I’ve always admired… Robinson is on my list of 50 greatest boxers of all time. I have him ahead of Ralph Jones, who completely dominated Robinson—and ahead of Joey Maxim, who proved more durable than Robinson. Those guys are not in my top 500.
My point was simply that Robinson ducked his toughest possible opponents, Charley Burley and Archie Moore. Robinson knew they were too good for him. He mistakenly believed he could beat Ralph Jones and Joey Maxim.
Joey Maxim wanted to fight Moore or fight a rematch with Robinson. Robinson was the guy who didn’t want to fight the other 2 guys.
Ralph Jones badly wanted to give Robinson a rematch after soundly beating him. Robinson refused to consider a rematch with Jones.
My point—which you missed entirely—was many great fighters ducked tough opponents in the past: Ali, Leonard, Robinson, among many others. Mayweather didn’t invent ducking—it’s always been part of Boxing.Posted January 22, 2014 3:16 pm
???Why do some dumb fat heads….you know who are fat heads, those from SOB, act like they were alive during the time Maxim, Robinson, Fulmer, etc. fought and watched them???? If anything, you mofo’s weren’t even born yet, were crossing rio grande or were just little tykes running in the ghetto playing with traffic. Get real.Posted January 22, 2014 2:12 pm
I’m only TESTING!!Posted January 22, 2014 11:59 am
modern boxing same as modern music. pure hype and no class.Posted January 22, 2014 10:11 am
guys can’t be considered “skilled” simply because they looked good and promising until they stepped-up to a proven and tested elite, lost, and never recovered. at which point, their presumed skill is proven to be lacking.Posted January 22, 2014 2:47 am
So a SD loss to Calzaghe when he was 43 means he didn’t fight him??? Pavlik was at least as skilled as Randy Turpin or Denny Moyer, so he could be another. Keith Holmes was pretty skilled at the time he fought Hopkins. Even Robert Allen, Syd Vanderpool, and Howard Eastman were more skillful than some of the guys who beat Robinson at middleweight.
I said middleweight or bigger… You DQ’d DLH and Trinidad because they were little guys… Wright was bigger and stronger and made a much better middleweight… John David Jackson was certainly skilled… You didn’t address my post fully.Posted January 22, 2014 2:15 am
EZ E, Pinche Tark has got all of this boxing knowledge but consistently ignores context and glaringly overlaps time periods and occasionally entire boxing eras. you’re comparing great middleweights, and before you know it, Tark is comparing entire bodies of work citing Names completely out of competitive context. Btw, this the first time I’ve read or heard Carmen Basilio’s greatness be browbeaten(?!). of course, that still pales in comparison to reading SRR’s irrefutable greatness be scrutinized for evidence to the contrary. however, he’s in good company. other irrefutable greats on Tark’s “good” list: Ali, Marvelous, and “Hitman” Hearns(?!?) who I would actually favor in a best of three tourney v. Robinson. those on Tark’s unheralded greats list? McCallum, Glenn Johnson, and Manny* Pacquiao* of which we know everything we could possibly want to know but still have questions about.Posted January 22, 2014 2:03 am
it appears that I am once again Right as Rain.Posted January 22, 2014 1:51 am
TARK, middleweight, MIDDLEweight, MIDDLEWEIGHT. have you forgotten what the traditional weight limit is for MIDDLEweight? it’s 160lbs. Glen Johnson ALways SUCKED and lost to Julio “Streetlampt” Gonzalez for crissakes(?!). Dawson, Calzaghe, and Winky all happened beyond 160lbs and all beyond their prime, but it didn’t prevent Calzaghe from Poking and Slapping Hopkins silly. also, Winky was a lifelong jr. middle who had no business fighting at a catchweight of 170lbs. Btw, are you seriously tossing Keith Holmes’ name in among Calzaghe, Hopkins, Dawson, and Winky?!? i’ve suggested it before and I will suggest it again: CONTEXT. look it up.Posted January 22, 2014 1:50 am
BTW… HOF doesn’t mean anything to me… That’s political stuff… There are great boxers who aren’t in the Hall and unskilled guys who are… Ingemar Johansson is in the Hall… He couldn’t box a lick, but won one title fight of 3 — by sneaking up on an overconfident Patterson.Posted January 22, 2014 1:44 am
I believe Robinson beat Moyer so he gets that one too.Posted January 22, 2014 1:33 am
Te Tumbo is wrong as HELL saying Hopkins fought one skilled guy.
Who were the skilled middleweight boxers or bigger Hopkins faced???
John David Jackson… Antonio Tarver (4 time LHW Champ)… Roy Jones Jr (4-Division World Champ)… Keith Holmes… Glen Johnson (who later won the LHW Title)… Chad Dawson (2 time LHW Champ)… Joe Calzaghe (2-Division World Champ)… Winky Wright was a pretty skilled middleweight—Wright shutout crude boxing Felix Trinidad, and finessed Jermain Taylor at middleweight in their “draw.”
That’s 7 skilled middleweights or bigger Hopkins faced… He had 6 wins.
Who were the skilled middleweights Robinson faced??? Joey Archer… Randy Turpin is not my idea of a skilled boxer but I’ll give you Turpin to be nice… Ralph Jones… Joey Maxim… Denny Moyer… and Joey Giardello
That’s 6 skilled middleweights or bigger Robinson faced… He had 1 win.
That’s an easy win for Hopkins against skilled opposition.Posted January 22, 2014 1:30 am
te tumbo said:
“TARK, the only truly skilled middleweight peer that Hopkins faced was Roy Jones Jr. and he lost convincingly. otherwise, he easily handled Trinidud and De La Chubby at 160lbs but they were career welters NOT middleweight peers.
TUMBO hmmm.. Very good observation. Honesly, I couldn’t have put it any better, Carnal!! (without the “Trinidud” of course. LOLOL!!) Paz!Posted January 22, 2014 12:15 am
TARK Okay, it wasn’t his first comeback fight, it was ONLY his second, TWO weeks after his FIRST comeback fight vs Joe Rindone. BIG DEAL!! TWO WEEKS!! The message is basically the SAME. BAM!! There goes your argument!
And.. Bobo Olsen was the MIddleweight champ when Robinson knocked him out to regain the title and was close to FOURTY years old when he fought Torres future champ Torres. BAM!! There goes your other wank argument!
Your ridicule Gavilan, Fullmer, Basilio and most of all the HALL OF FAMERS Robinson defeated. Doesn’t the fact that they’re in the HALL OF FAME mean anything to you. Oh yeah, I forgot, it’s all about Donaire, whom you ALREADY enshrined into the HOF. Just that alone is enough to tell me about your expertise in dissing HOFérs. But I’m getting away from the essence of my comment. My bad. LOL!!
“Facts straight?? hmmm… Oh, like your “facts” that Robinson “DUCKED” a Maxim rematch?? Huh?? You STILL haven’t come up with a drop of evidence about that but STILL you won’t admit that you were WRONG or… made it up or even LIED!!! I may have been TWO WEEKS wrong BUT didn’t & won’t resort to LYING like obviously YOU did, and have been caught doing so time and time AGAIN!! Why?? For the sake of “winning” an argumen/debate?? Oh brother, very “classy”of you, dude. One of your BIGGEST lies is when you say that Sugar Ray is one of your… IDOLS?? LOLOL!! Oh boy, you really hit it outta the ballpark with that one! BAM!!
Does the fact that Robinson was already PAST his prime, a worn down with ONE HUNDRED FIFTY fights , give or take a few, when he beat or faced much younger and PRIM HOFérs like Fullmer and Basilio mean something to you?? No, I guess not. Robinson was WAY past his prime 40 yrs old with 153 fights under his belt and tired legs when he held then Middleweight champ/future HOFér Fullmer to a disputed draw. If you “remember” well the consensus poll of the experts and writers present including the Ring Magazine staff most all had Sugar Ray ahead. Do you REALLY “remember” that one? Truthfully?? Well, if you do then you’ll have to admit that he was robbed of winning the World Middleweight title for the SIXTH time!!
I was warned that I would be wasting my time with you AGAIN, and AGAIN they were correct. For now, I will take their advice but ONLY for now. See you later. Got to get some work in. Bye TARK! Let me know when you got another one of your ‘WHOPPERS’ you wanna tell me! Good Lord, help him, please!!Posted January 22, 2014 12:05 am
testing, testing, testing Here I am!Posted January 21, 2014 11:56 pm
Manny Pacquiao will come to Floyd Mayweather’s home town and take it by storm as he always does. Timothy “Dessert Storm” Bradley seems to have accepted a fight in which he will be annihilated in a manner that most will see as pure violence. April 12, 2014 will be a day that will resemble that Valentines Day Massacre. One great fighter beating his opponent into submission. Bradley will be tough as he always is, but this time around, their will be no decisions. Manny will be the judge and jury. Timothy will not just be fighting a mere man, he will be fighting an emotion that has no turn off switch. Manny Pacquiao has made his way back after losing twice, laughed and mocked at as if he was done. That was followed by one of the most lethal and graceful boxing exhibitions ever seen in a boxing match. The great Manny Pacquiao shocked the world as he showcased his boxing versatility and moved as graceful as a young Cassius Clay as he dissected and pin pointed his faster than lighting punches that landed flush on a tough and brave Brandon Rios. There will be no bigger stage in all of sports. Manny will make this an eventful, exciting and unforgettable night for all fight fans to remember. The entrance to the ring will be like no other. Manny will come out with his colorful Pride Of The Philippines boxing robe. The head band, and the smile that illuminates stronger than the sun. He will duck under the rope, shake his arms out and be deafened by the out of control crowd that has been waiting for his return. Manny will smile and show his deep appreciation for his fans. An earthquake may register as the thunderous standing ovation continues, but law enforcement has already been warned. This is the same Manny Pacquiao that helps the poor, the same man that was conferred the Honorary Degree of Doctor of Humanities by South Western University, the same man that was given a Boston Celtics jersey and made an honorary member, the same man that will continue to thrill his fans by singing hit renditions like “When We Touch” after the fight, the same man that came from the streets to arguably the greatest fighter of all time, the same man that is a highly respected and honored congressman of his country. Yes, Manny Pacquiao will write another chapter to his story on this night. The moon will stay out a little longer, the criminals will stop just to see Manny fight again. Manny Pacquiao will come out with both guns blazing. You’ll see a fierce jab followed by a jack hammer straight left hand that will stop Timothy Bradley in less than 5 rounds. Manny will turn back the hands of time and do what many thought he could never do. He will further cement his legacy as the most ferocious, entertaining, exciting and beloved fighter of all time. This from a man that made his first punching bag out of cardboard stuffed with clothes. The world now awaits without a doubt the most highly, anticipated sporting event in history. On this day, the entire world will be glued to their TV”S waiting to see Manny Pacquiao as never before. This will be a special fight for me as it will land just about on my Birthday. My celebration will begin and end after Manny’s spectacular victory. Manny is the best.Posted January 21, 2014 11:46 pm
TARK, the only truly skilled middleweight peer that Hopkins faced was Roy Jones Jr. and he lost convincingly. otherwise, he easily handled Trinidud and De La Chubby at 160lbs but they were career welters NOT middleweight peers.Posted January 21, 2014 9:57 pm
Floyd WON’T!! Too SCARED!!Posted January 21, 2014 9:53 pm
AMERICA IS SUPPOSE TO BE THE LAND OF THE BRAVE….BUT WITH FLOD DUCKING IT IS NOW CALLED LAND OF THE SCARED….. WAKE UP AMERICANSPosted January 21, 2014 8:36 pm
Hopkins had many more SUCCESSFUL title defenses than Robinson. Robinson had a lot of UNSCCESSFUL title defenses.
I think it’s more interesting that Bernard Hopkins held the middleweight championship for 10 years and 20 defenses WITHOUT losing… even to his most skillful challengers.Posted January 21, 2014 8:06 pm
EZ E claims.., “You’re the ONLY person in the ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM that doesn’t realize Robinson defeated HOFérs like like Kid Gavilan twice, Jake LaMotta five times, Carl ‘Bobo’ Olsen twice, Randy Turpin, Marty Servo, Sammy Angott twice, Georgie Abrams (WBHOF), and worthy but faded HOFérs already past their primes like Rocky Graziano & ATG Henry Armstrong,all before theMaxim fight. After retirement, no longer at his best after a total of ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY plus fights he came back to defeat HOFérs Carl ‘Bobo’ Olsen AGAIN, Carmen Basilio and Gene Fullmer … You’re the ONLY critter in the WHOLE MILKY WAY that will put down Ray for losing his FIRST comeback fight to Tiger Jones after his retirement.”
I’m aware of every name fighter Robinson beat. Many in the galaxy are not. But enough about your ad-hoc personal attacks, let’s get to your errors.
Ralph Jones wasn’t Ray Robinson’s first comeback fight—check the record before making statements that aren’t true — and what difference would it make if Jones WAS his first comeback fight??? Which is wasn’t.
Ray Leonard beat Hagler after having one fight in 5 years and NONE in 3 years … Vitali Klitschko took 4 years off before he smashed 30-1 Heavyweight Champion Sam Peter … Joe Louis took 4 years off for WWII and started winning again right away … Floyd took 2 years off and resumed his career smoothly .. For “naturals” it doesn’t matter if they take time off.
Check Gavilan, LaMotta, and Maxim’s KO ratios—they couldn’t punch… Bobo Olson had a glass jaw.. He was a 1 round job for Jose Torres.. Archie Moore said, “Olson can’t box and he can’t punch. I’ll knock him out with the first punch I throw.” Many who saw the Marty Servo fights thought Servo clearly beat Robinson. Henry Armstrong was a tiny guy who fought featherweight for a very long time. He was no match for Robinson. Sammy Angott was a good win but he was another tiny guy with no reach or height. Robinson was 5’11” so it was like Jose Napoles trying to fight Carlos Monzon.
Graziano was a defenseless swinger. Fullmer was crude as HELL and couldn’t box apples—but Fullmer only lost once (1 time) to Robinson in 4 fights. LaMotta was a punching bag but managed to beat Robinson. Turpin was uncoordinated but beat Robinson. Nobody Robinson fought had the boxing skills of a Mayweather, Martinez, Golovkin, Hopkins, Jones, Leonard, Nunn, McCallum, Toney, Charles, Charley Burley, Kovalev, Archie Moore, Rigondeaux, Lomachenko, or a lot of a ton of boxers competing today. I don’t see one fighter who Sugar Ray Robinson beat who was highly skilled and could match Robinson in size.Posted January 21, 2014 7:57 pm
EZ E…, “FIVE TIME UNDISPUTED WORLD MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION.”
That’s because Robinson kept losing to unskilled boxers like Fullmer, Turpin, and Basilio. They were easy to beat. Of course he gets the title back.Posted January 21, 2014 7:55 pm
AND TAKE THAT TREE RAT DEMONYO AND THAT JUNGLE MAN JOHN THE BANANA SMIFF WITH YOU,G,F,YPosted January 21, 2014 6:17 pm
YES I GET IT ANONYMOUS,YOUR A THICK PYGMY THAT CANT SPELL,NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO ADDRESS ME MAKE AN APPOINTMENT YOU SACK OF RICEPosted January 21, 2014 6:11 pm
Floyd is scared of Manny. He is rushing to retire because he doesn’t want to fight Manyy. Boycott him. Period.Posted January 21, 2014 6:03 pm
MIDGET, thank your ancestors for being dumb enough not to resist slavery, or else, you’ll be starving like your kinsmen in Africa at this moment!!!! get it?!Posted January 21, 2014 6:01 pm
Q-Vo EZ E. You are the ONLY consensus boxing expert on these message boards. what you post is Truth with a healthy dose of personal bias that reinforces your dual role as expert and true fight-fan. as always, Peace and Respect to EZ (“Muthafn”) E.Posted January 21, 2014 12:46 pm
TUMBO!! At least your points make a TON of sense! Orale pues! Al’rrato.Posted January 21, 2014 12:19 pm
TARK before you attack my typos in another cheap diversion ploy, it should read: Not even in these FOUR champions per weight division NEVER has anybody come close to being the champion, UNDISPUTED or not, a TOTAL of FIVE TIMES in a particular weight division. FIVE TIME UNDISPUTED WORLD MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION. “Remember”??
Not to mention that he was the UNDISPUTED WORLD WELTERWEIGHT CHAMPION from 1946 until 1951, when he gave it up after winning the Undisputed (there goes that word again) World Middleweight Championship from Jake LaMotta, I’m sure you “remember” that too.Posted January 21, 2014 12:13 pm
BollocksPosted January 21, 2014 12:08 pm
EZ E has got the beat! you have to step outside of time and space to reconcile Tark’s irreconciliable timelines and timing of specific matchups or non-matchups, e.g., Hagler had no prime obligation to fight Nunn, Toney, or Jones Jr. during the nascent stage of their own careers. different eras and ultimately weight-classes, e.g., Toney’s first pro-bout was in 1988(?!). Jones Jr.? 1989. Nunn? 1984. how or Why in the Hell would Hagler ever of considered any of these guys mandatory opponents?Posted January 21, 2014 12:07 pm
NEWSFLASH! Reni and Pacquiao’s* “charity fight” is still on. it simply doesn’t have to include Mayweather. the question now is “What if Pacquiao* reneges on his own ‘charity fight’ proposal simply because Mayweather is not the opponent?” it will surely expose Reni as a shameless Pacquiao* shill and reinforce Manny’s* notoriety as a sleazy shyster whose first priority is always the size of his personal bankroll. conversely, if he goes ahead with his “charitable” proposal, no matter who the opponent, it will reveal St. Pacquiao* as the generous and benevolent demi-god and world leader that his Pacmaniacs* insist he already is. will Manny* step-Up to his own challenge? or will he once again be exposed as the greedy and fraudulent St. Pacquiao*?Posted January 21, 2014 11:58 am
TARK Ready again?? Okay?? Now RE-READ again and PLEASE stick with our debate,don’t go wandering off on another one of your ‘wild theories’ again, please. Yes, the win was legit, I never said that it wasn’t. I said Maxim got the WIN but it was mainly due to the heat, just as ALL of the EXPERTS and WRITERS covering the fight said. RE-READ! The ONLY one on our PLANET EARTH that doesn’t agree is…. (can I get a drum roll..) … YOU!! Why doesn’t that surprise me”?? hmmm… Sweet Jesus, help him!!
And you’re the one that said you “remembered”, huh?? You’re the ONLY human in this entire UNIVERSE that ridiculously accuses Robinson of “DUCKING” Maxim with NOTHING to back your argument, but you’ll probably think of “something”, won’t you?? Listen and learn TARK, that has NEVER ever been a remote nor plausible boxing issue in the annals of our sport and NEVER will, only in you’re Robinson-hateful mind & mission to tear down his career credentials and feeble attempt to “win” an argument. YOU MADE IT UP!! Did Maxim himself tell you this “secret”?? When?? I have every Ring Magazine of the 1952 set except two (March and May issues, before the fight took place) and the whole set of 1953 Ring Mags and NOWHERE is there a word of Ray “ducking” Maxim. But you still INSIST that YOU “remember”??!! And you have the… ahhh.. “bravado” to say on ESB that Robinson IS one of your favorites?? Why don’t you try selling me the Brooklyn Bridge while you’re at it?? LOL!!!
Here you come once AGAIN trying to divert my response with ”double talk” and attack Robinson’s career & opponents. You give him NO credit for being outweighed throughout his career while facing the best opponents around nor fighting for the LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT weighing 157LBs, with, as it’s been said, with his shoes and pants on. Again you’re the ONLY person in the ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM that doesn’t realize that he defeated HOFérs like like Kid Gavilan twice, Jake LaMotta five times, Carl ‘Bobo’ Olsen twice, Randy Turpin, Marty Servo, Sammy Angott twice, Georgie Abrams (WBHOF), and worthy but faded HOFérs already past their primes like Rocky Graziano & ATG Henry Armstrong,all before theMaxim fight. After retirement, no longer at his best after a total of ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY plus fights he came back to defeat HOFérs Carl ‘Bobo’ Olsen AGAIN, Carmen Basilio and Gene Fullmer!! But in your eyes it’s not even mentioning. you STILL “remember” and say that Surar Ray is one of your… ahhhh.. “favorites”?? Oh boy…. (Patience EZ E, patience!)
You’re the ONLY critter in the WHOLE MILKY WAY that will put down Ray for losing his FIRST comeback fight to Tiger Jones after his retirement, and like I already said, with already 137 pro fights under his belt and legs. AND.. you conveniently OVERLOOK the fact that he came back and eventually REGAINED the UNDISPUTED World Middleweight Title a total of THREE more times. Not even in these FOUR champions per weight division has anybody come close to being the UNDISPUTED champion in ANY weight division. Or did you “remember” that too??
There been only ONE Sugar Ray. And… ONLY ONE TARK, we should ALL thank the good Lord in Heaven for that! But… it’s all good. Peace to TARK, peace to all!!Posted January 21, 2014 11:52 am
Slow down my comments?? okay!Posted January 21, 2014 11:46 am
The following are sexually attracted to Mayweather: MIDGETS, PEEJ, Tachyon, Te Tumbo. MIDGETS when will you and Floyd learn that balls are for fighting and not for licking? Just because you are a s p erm donee of your boss does not mean you have to be irrational. Floyd does not run the show. Rather he runs away.
Don’t worry MIDGETS, PEEJ and Te Tumbo Floyd will hire you to wear Tecate girls outfit during his fight with chinless Khan. Enjoy the skirt and midriff f@ggots!Posted January 21, 2014 9:09 am
run bubba floyd,runPosted January 21, 2014 8:46 am
P4p queen haha. I’m not fighting that hard guy I wanna fight lightweights that have a 50/50 rec in there last 4 fights LMAOPosted January 21, 2014 6:41 am
Who is Manny to Floyd that he thinks he can make demands to the P4P King???
LOL LOL LOLPosted January 21, 2014 6:12 am
EZ E…, Robinson was one of my many ring idols in those days so I’m not putting the great man down… I’m just saying SRR ducked a lot of good fighters including Charley Burley and Archie Moore.. I’m saying Floyd didn’t invent ducking tough fighters it’s been going on for a long time, and Robinson was engaged in it as well.
BTW… 80% of the fights Robinson fought were against terrible boxers.. They were little more than sparring sessions for Robinson they were so easy.. His record was tremendously padded.. When he fought tougher guys like Fullmer, Basilio, Jones, Maxim, Turpin, LaMatto etc. I give him a lot of credit… Those guys all beat Robinson at least once—and none of that group could box very well.. But the 2 guys who really had Robinson’s number he didn’t want to fight return matches with: Ralph Jones and Joey Maxim.. And the heat didn’t beat Robinson because it was just as hot for Maxim.. He fought a more clever fight considering the elements.. Maxim fought Moore 3 times and Charles 5 times, in spite of the fact they were way too good for him and he didn’t have a prayer of beating them.. Robinson never fought boxers the caliber of Moore, or Charles.
And I didn’t say Robinson wasn’t ahead of Maxim on points.. Robinson wasn’t going to be able to finish—so that didn’t matter.. Maxim didn’t care how far behind he was because he wanted Robinson to waste himself in the heat.. He fought a very clever fight.
Or are you saying it wasn’t a legitimate victory for Maxim???
It didn’t matter if Maxim fought for the Heavyweight Championship against former middleweight Ezzard Charles—a very small heavyweight.. Maxim and Robinson were fighting for the Light Heavyweight Tite—and Robinson was expected to win because Maxim was considered slow and punchless.Posted January 21, 2014 3:50 am
TARK I will DISSECT the rest f your 8:53pm comment later. Got to get some rest.Posted January 21, 2014 3:44 am
TUMBO Q-Vo carnal!! Yeah, I have to agree. Like damn, it’s okay to back up you fighters, but this anit the neighborhood with the back your homies’ code of La Calle (“the streets” for all you non-Latino raza) prevails. It’s a boxing site so they should at least try stay OBJECTIVE as possible with REASONABLE arguments. Al’rrato y paz!!Posted January 21, 2014 3:17 am
Floyd isn’t you and Floyd won’t fight… Pacquiao is a very fast and slick southpaw who throws tricky combinations with punches coming from weird angles… De La Hoya was weight drained for Pacquiao but he still couldn’t see the punches coming… He seemed to get hit with every right hook and left cross Manny threw.
The only remotely slick southpaw Floyd ever fought was Zab Judah… Zab hit Floyd with a ton of tricky angled shots early, before Floyd started attacking with a vengence … Zab even decked him.
That’s why Floyd is reluctant to fight Pacquiao — and sure won’t fight Lara.Posted January 21, 2014 3:04 am
Floyd will probably beat Pac if the fight does happen. I give Pac a puncher’s chance. so what the hell is Floyd so scared about? Floydie, fight him already. I would if I were you.Posted January 21, 2014 2:44 am
ALL THESE FLOYDIOTS ESPECIALLY “TACHYON” ARE TOTAL IMBECILES AND SO PATHETIC!!! THEY CANNOT COMPREHEND A VERY SIMPLE MESSAGE PERIOD… OR PERHAPS THEY JUST DEFEND FLOYDIE AT ALL COST EVEN THOUGH IT MADE THEM AN INFINITE IMBECILES…Posted January 21, 2014 2:43 am
Oh sorry meant TACHYON but its seems all you talk about is other people’s taxes which you prob don’t have a job and don’t pay themPosted January 21, 2014 1:54 am
That’s your excuse this week. Your all a bunch of princess s. difference between PAC and may is PAC fights for legacy he just wants to beat may floyd just wants the money. But on a nicer note he knows you touch yourself TAXYON to his videosPosted January 21, 2014 1:52 am
Auzbox is Pacs gramdma in trying he to get Floyd in the ring to help save Pac from the tax man.Posted January 21, 2014 1:36 am
ALL THESE FLOYDIOTS ARE TOTAL IMBECILES AND SO PATHETIC!!! THEY CANNOT COMPREHEND A VERY SIMPLE MESSAGE PERIOD… OR PERHAPS THEY JUST DEFEND FLOYDIE AT ALL COST EVEN THOUGH IT MADE THEM AN INFINITE IMBECILES…Posted January 21, 2014 12:57 am
Just sick of the floydoids and there excuses, there’s a new one every week rather than push him into the fight since its so easyPosted January 21, 2014 12:21 am
Floyd xylocaine mayweather
Auzbox knows Boxing.Posted January 20, 2014 11:58 pm
Manny eventually agreed to every changing demand and reduced money for his end… Everything was in place again…
Then, “You gotta get rid of Bob Arum — or no fight.”
So here we are with Floyd vs Khan being put together… WonderfulPosted January 20, 2014 11:57 pm
I believe Manny is serious in his offer and if Floyd accepts it will be a big big mega fight that will break all the previous PPV records and the Guinness Book of World Records too. If Floyd rejects , then he must really be scared to face a real formidable opponent that the world want to see & he doesn’t care about the boxing fans either.Posted January 20, 2014 11:56 pm
I wasn’t arguing with you that stupid tachyon that knows alot about nothing and nothing about boxingPosted January 20, 2014 11:55 pm
Auzbox…, I don’t care what Floyd or Pacquiao originally offered each other to get the negotiations going… What they agreed on when they settled on the money, date, and venue the very first time was a 50/50 split of the money… That was the deal… They were both going to make over 50 million dollars without a doubt.
That’s when Floyd came up with the Olympic style PED testing demand. They already took urine samples and tested for scores of PED’s — but Floyd wanted more stringent random blood testing, “Or no fight.”Posted January 20, 2014 11:53 pm
Where you gone now tachyon you fa ggot? Got your facts wrong, sick of you stupid floyd idiots he would stand infront of you and say he is pink and you would believe him, your dad should of pulled outPosted January 20, 2014 11:41 pm
Google 2009 PAC v may negotiationsPosted January 20, 2014 11:39 pm
No TARK as below the first ever offer was 60/40Posted January 20, 2014 11:35 pm
Google negotiations 2009 floyd offered 60/40 first you f u c k stick so there it is beat it you are wrong your mother would have dropped you as a childPosted January 20, 2014 11:34 pm
The Mayweather-Pacquiao fight was actually agreed to and a venue and date was set… The money was 50/50… Then Floyd came up and said he wanted Olympic style PED testing, “or no fight.”
They scrambled with the negotiations… Floyd wanted tests to 14 days out… Pacquiao said 20 days out… The fight was called off because of this impasse… Pacquiao later changed his mind and said, “I take any tests Floyd wants up to the day of the fight and even between rounds if that’s what Floyd wants.”
Pacquiao filed suit against Floyd, Floyd Sr, Golden Boy Promotions, Oscar De La Hoya, and Richard Schaiffer… Pacquiao won and they were all forced to pay an undisclosed settlement and apologize to Pac.
Floyd offered Pacquiao a flat 40-million dollar guarantee to fight… Since they might split 200-million Pacquiao didn’t want to do that.. But Pacquiao is the guy whoi kept rethinking his position and compromising… They finally came up with a money agreement but Pacquiao got robbed against Bradley and KO’d by Marquez… The fight seemed gone… May-Pac was history. Then came Pac-Rios.
Now May-Pac is back — bigger and badder than ever… But Floyd won’t bite… We’re just going to go round, an round, an round, an round, an round… FOREVERPosted January 20, 2014 11:34 pm
I assume you don’t know floyd personally cause as much as you love him he wouldn’t hang with a fool like you no doubtPosted January 20, 2014 11:31 pm
40 mill was offered first. Where is your info from? Floyd cause he is a liar foolPosted January 20, 2014 11:30 pm
Charity!!! Manny will payoff his tax problems thru a tax write off by way of °charity” i hope Floyd wont buy that.Posted January 20, 2014 11:10 pm
Auzbox you could not get a clue if you were standing in a herd of clues wearing clue musk doing a clue mating dance. First fight negotions was 50/50 split notice PAC never complained about the money he disliked the random test damn we have to much trash in the gene pool sad thing is Auzbox you can actually spread your genes around.Posted January 20, 2014 10:55 pm
I think Valenzuela and Smith are vying for “Stupidest Article of the Year Award.” Right now they’re running neck in neck.Posted January 20, 2014 10:40 pm
Go on YouTube and watch the 10 min video about floyd saying he doesn’t want to fight PAC straight from the horses mouth ya wan kPosted January 20, 2014 10:39 pm
PAC is heaps worried about the IRS going to donate to charity. Your a dumb floydoid get back to worshipping. Floyd can’t achieve what PAC has ever. Good luck seeing him win a super middle title he can’t even fight the best at welter LMAO. AMIR KHAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAPosted January 20, 2014 10:38 pm
Tachyon your a fool. It was never 50/50 so get your facts right you muppetPosted January 20, 2014 10:34 pm
Yeh SHERRIFF the time has past so now he will just fight guys half as good LMAO what a great champ pfffffttPosted January 20, 2014 10:33 pm
Sheriff Joe’s chicken
Pacquioa is “desperate”. Why else is he going to great lengths and say for charity. Its too late Pacquioa you should of barked from the start, doing it now is pointless. That door of opportunity is closed.Posted January 20, 2014 9:57 pm
Right. Pacquiao is like Joe Louis. Governments are going to be understanding about his tax problems because he’s a super likeable role model. Louis tried to pay off the tax debt the best he could but he didn’t have a prayer. And he needed to live a decent life free from hounding IRS agents. Pacquiao has the same status. So it’s not like he’s desperate for money just because he owes tons in taxes.Posted January 20, 2014 9:40 pm
Auzbox your the funniest poster on ESB. Your data is never accurate, your post are pathetic, and Pac cold piss off your roof tell you its raining you would believe it. Fact first fight negotiation May agreed to 50/50 split Arum was worried May would not agree to the split but wanted random blood test. Second time around Pac 2 losses our of 3 fights with one loss by devastating KO. Pac would not agree 40mill Pac declined. 3rd time around Pac in trouble with IRS needs May like the dessert needs the rain willing to wash cars for May fight needs to leave Arum which makes the most sense if Pac wants to get bigger fights.Posted January 20, 2014 9:35 pm
Floyd xylocaine mayweather
Floyd said Pac is desperate for the fight coz he needs money, so Pac said lets fight and donate the money to a charity.Posted January 20, 2014 9:20 pm
EZ E says.., “It was like that in local fights, neighborhood, city, state.. and WORLD rivalries as well. Madison Sq Garden, famed Olympic Auditorium, Philly’s Blue Horizon, Civic Auditorium… filled the seats to witness The BEST vs THE BEST, whether on a local, international or world title level.”
Remember, I was around in those days too… That’s not what I remember.
I remember Sugar Ray Robinson ducking out on a return fight with Joey Maxim… and a rematch with Ralph Jones… and a fight with Archie Moore… and that was long after Robinson ducked out on Charley Burley.
After Sugar Ray Leonard beat Marvin Hagler—Ray flat out refusing to negotiate a fight with Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum… The same deal applies to Tommy Hearns — Tommy flat out refused to fight those guys.
I remember Muhammad Ali flat refusing to talk about a fight with Larry Holmes… Ali wanted to fight Leon Spinks who had 6 wins… Holmes won the stripped title by beating Norton. Years later when Ali-Holmes was made it was a joke … It was a farce to get Ali some badly needed money.
Floyd didn’t invent ducking… Ducking tough opponents goes back over 100 years.Posted January 20, 2014 8:53 pm
@jackjones sorry I didn’t know you were PAC accountant and know his finances. You don’t know what he is so talk boxing and mind your business about others finances in which you know about as much as you do boxing. Not much chapPosted January 20, 2014 8:44 pm
Floyd xylocaine mayweather
Fans say well Pac had tough time dealing with the defensive style of JMM so how will Pac be able to deal with the top defensive fighter of all times which Floyd, they say Pac will not be able to land any clean punch on Floyd and will eventually run out of gas hence they come to the conclusion that there is no way Pac can beat Floyd.
But JMM is a counter puncher and throws many punches together but Floyd only pot shots and use his shoulder roll defense (which I love)
So how can Pac having tough times with JMM indicate that he will have tough time with Floyd too?Posted January 20, 2014 8:39 pm
Blackman sports pointed out that manny pacquiao , investment , giving away money to the poor…so its maywnever not need more money…even when they freeze his accounts….still giving money to the poor…maynever gamble a lo hemight be the one looking for money….ask flmos investment he will poor after his career as foreman said ….just boycott this fake im the bestPosted January 20, 2014 8:39 pm
Pac is an idiot and he’s broke. Who the hell works for free!Posted January 20, 2014 8:35 pm
09 manny was worth 55/45 even 60/40 he was P4P KING why should he take less than floyd that clown was retired and couldn’t even fight a true welter on his return fought a lightweightPosted January 20, 2014 8:22 pm
now get up that tree before i cut the f@ka down,then you will have to sleep on the park railingsPosted January 20, 2014 8:20 pm
”Manny you’re next”
”I never said that”
BWAHAHAPosted January 20, 2014 8:18 pm
When you got nowhere to go, go racial. BWAHAHA!Posted January 20, 2014 8:16 pm
Flomos going racial now. Well I never! You know what they say about birds of a feather flocking together. Or should I say chickens of a feather? BWAHAHA. Flomos can’t handle the truth. And I’m an expert at handing out truth. The funniest part about this is I’m not even a Pactard. That’s what makes this even more amusing for me. BWAHAHA!Posted January 20, 2014 8:15 pm
Told you. So predictable. Even after you tell a Flomo what they’re going to do they still do it. Flomos got the fish brain. BWAHAHA!
”Watch the Flomos do what they always do when their master gets exposed: They ignore it and look for a double standard to attack Manny with.”
”Chicken you stupid rants mean what? It wont change the facts, Manny got KTFO by Marquez he lost to Bradley he is broke. No one wants to fight him. No one will deal with Arum, Manny last fight with Rios sold like crap. All the negatives outweigh it all. Floyd is scared Floyd is running Floyd we heard it all before and just because you word it different it comes out the same like typical Manny nutt hugger. Manny is kicking himself in the ass for turning down 40 million back in 09 and nothing is going to change that Floyd mind is made up to never fight manny. And all Mannys crying and moaning only makes him look weak. Man up leave Arum and save whats left of your sorry career. Danny Garcia, Maidana Mallinagi are all big bout again No Floyd No future for Pac.”
Posted January 20, 2014 7:52 pmPosted January 20, 2014 8:03 pm
You stupid stupid man. Floyd is still terrified of Manny even after he’s suffered a brutal KO loss. That only makes him look even worse you thick idiot. Manny is half the fighter he was in his prime but Chicken Floyd’s still soling his knickers and stuttering like a retard when he hears his name. BWAHAHA.
Manny beat Bradley, Chicken Floyd wants glass jaw Khan. Checkmate. BWAHAHA!!Posted January 20, 2014 8:00 pm
Chicken Floyd contradicts himself everytime he opens his mouth. Everytime Manny agrees to his stipulations and smashes through the roadblocks and barricades he puts in the way to wriggle out of the fight, Chicken Floyd immediately creates another. He says Manny only wants to fight him because he’s desperate and needs the money, Manny says OK, let’s do this for free. Let both of use give our purses to charity seeing as you’re such a philanthropist Chicken Floyd and you’re so filthy rich. I’ll fight you anywhere, anytime and undergo any drug testing you demand just to get your chicken ass in the ring.
Chicken Floyd just ran out of excuses, Manny has just pulled a masterstroke. He’s backed Chicken Floyd into a corner and left him with no excuses to keep on ducking. Chicken Floyd can’t wriggle out of this without losing all his credibility, credibility, credibility we all know he lost many years ago. Only the Flomos think he has any, but the beauty of this is there’s literally nothing they can do to defend him if he bottles it again. Sheer genius by Manny. Checkmate. BWAHAHA!Posted January 20, 2014 7:55 pm
Chicken you stupid rants mean what? It wont change the facts, Manny got KTFO by Marquez he lost to Bradley he is broke. No one wants to fight him. No one will deal with Arum, Manny last fight with Rios sold like crap. All the negatives outweigh it all. Floyd is scared Floyd is running Floyd we heard it all before and just because you word it different it comes out the same like typical Manny nutt hugger. Manny is kicking himself in the ass for turning down 40 million back in 09 and nothing is going to change that Floyd mind is made up to never fight manny. And all Mannys crying and moaning only makes him look weak. Man up leave Arum and save whats left of your sorry career. Danny Garcia, Maidana Mallinagi are all big bout again No Floyd No future for Pac.Posted January 20, 2014 7:52 pm
Read this post on another site. Watch the Flomos do what they always do when their master gets exposed: They ignore it and look for a double standard to attack Manny with.
”Floyd’s fanbase is simply the worst fanbase in boxing history. When their idol straight up LIED to their face by saying “Pacquiao you’re next” and then say “I never said that” then how THE HELL can you not lose respect for someone like that? That is f-king mindboggling. Straight from Floyd’s mouth, directly to his own fanbase, and then lied to them. HOW DO YOU DEFEND THAT? THIS IS SERIOUSLY F-ed UP!!!
He straight up lied! ON CAMERA! Has any Floyd fan defended this at all?
Can a Floyd fan PLEEEASE explain to me how you feel about Floyd straight up lying to YOUR FACE????”Posted January 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Floyd xylocaine mayweather
so we are 1-1
te tumbo Marquez didn’t challenge Floyd, all he said because he hate manny, was Floyd is the true p4p champion not manny, that is why I think that fight was fixed, because saying this mean he believe Floyd is better than him, so I think Floyd seen this and made him a offer for Floyd first fight, too make him look good losing to him. And that contract has a no rematch build in.Posted January 20, 2014 7:08 pm
Floyd xylocaine mayweather
Yes both floyd and manny who calls them the best are always upto some kind of bs with there opponents.
Let the guy have a fulll training camp at least…..Posted January 20, 2014 7:07 pm
THE MONEY IS TO SMART FOR THE PYGMY!!HE MESSES WITH THE PYGMYS MIND!!THE PYGMY IS DESPERATE!!!MONEY WAITS!!!MONEY PICKS HIS MOMENT!!MONEY IS SMART!THE PYGMY HAS BEEN DAMAGED!JMM DID BIG DAMAGE!!MONEY ALWAYS WINSPosted January 20, 2014 7:05 pm
DEMONYO IS A STAR,IN JUNGLE BOOK HES A KING!!!KING OF THE SWINGERS,Posted January 20, 2014 7:00 pm
Floyd xylocaine mayweather
But Floyd is the only one who has asked for a catch weight and also did not make the weight for the same fight.
You be the judge.Posted January 20, 2014 6:58 pm
BEST THING YOU CAN DEMONYO IS GET BACK UP THAT TREE AS QUICK AS YOU CAN!!BEFORE THAT PYGMY ZAPS YOU WITH ONE OF THEM SPEARS!!BANANA BRAINPosted January 20, 2014 6:54 pm
On a more INTRESTING point cause this argument is the same everyday boys. Shouldn’t manny and floyd be naming there fights. There not leaving there opponents much time to do a full camp- well manny isn’t its less than 3 months almost I thinkPosted January 20, 2014 6:50 pm
YOU SHOULD BE WHIPPED WITH YOUR OWN BANANA SKINS DEMONYO!!!YOUR A DISGRACE TO THE JUNGLEPosted January 20, 2014 6:50 pm
Well I’m sorry that image is gone. He whooped rios whether he was a flyweight heavyweight or what ever. When he beats Bradley #3 P4p in the world he will be on top again. It will be unacceptable for floyd to fight khan it will hurt him. It’s not ok for manny to make guys 2 divisions heavier to fight the great manny but ok for floyd to make guys come up. Poses same damage to fighters whether its power or speed. I ask you this. Is it ok to numb your hands in every state in the US?Posted January 20, 2014 6:48 pm
DEMONO, what comes first(!?): the brand-spanking new outdoor 40,000 seat Las Vegas boxing venue or Mayweather v. Pacquiao*?Posted January 20, 2014 6:46 pm
SUK MY BANANA DEMONYO,YOU BABOONPosted January 20, 2014 6:42 pm
And you say canelo called may out. What’s PAC doing calling his woose a s s outPosted January 20, 2014 6:41 pm
Manny at the time was the king peej and fought for Cottos title. you talk about margo which floyd openly ducked. If your going to write stuff put facts not manny is scared of floyd. If manny didn’t want to fight a GGG then yes he may be scared. Put floyd isn’t a scary guy his hard shots make cottos look like Tysons. If floyd is a natural 140 then manny is 130Posted January 20, 2014 6:40 pm
@MIDGET: you can now go back to your tribe in the jungle where men lick each other’s ba l l s as a ritual.
@Te Tumbong: The stadium is not Floyd’s issue. He would not fight so no sense to build it.
You Mayweather cheerleaders judge who is a prime fighter and who is not as if it is a mathematical precision that you exactly know the formula. You are all sidestepping the issue that is to get in the ring and fight.
Go claim your salary from Floyd you’ve done your job!Posted January 20, 2014 6:34 pm
They have all been fighters and are gladiators and whether they fight in 8 ounce or 10 ounce gloves they still train exactly the same. Dela won a gold medal at the Olympics his skills should leave no excuses. So it’s not ok to ask for catch weights cause manny is a 140 guy even 135. He needs to fight at a lighter weight or he would loose his speed. All this you say yet its ok for floyd to numb his hands. But rich don’t you thinkPosted January 20, 2014 6:18 pm
You say that but cotto wanted manny and delahoya thought he could beat manny so they did what they had to, to make the fight whether that was to loose weight or not. It wouldn’t have mattered manny beats everyone he had ever fought at 154 anyway. The same as canelo- may still beats him at 154 or 158 I honestly believe that. Canelo was to young for the mental fight floyd gave him.Posted January 20, 2014 6:15 pm
Floyd didn’t ask for a catchweight when he challenged DLH at 154lbs and agreed (in principle only) to accept a catchweight to face Marquez. Manny* has made weight and even gloves deal-breaking conditions when negotiating with Marquez and Mayweather but won’t even consider a competitive challenge to accept harmless but stricter anti-doping protocol? call it cowardice call it gamesmanship, Pacquiao’s* “accomplishments” are riddled with compromised or sabotaged matchups, per St. Pacquiao’s* instructions.Posted January 20, 2014 6:14 pm
Delahoya tweeted in 2014 he wants to end the Cold War with arum so can’t wait for that then what is floyd going to do? Stop working with golden boy cause they work with arum LMAOPosted January 20, 2014 6:11 pm
AUZBOX, you keep declaring that Mayweather “made” Marquez go up in weight when that’s simply not true. it was common knowledge that it was Marquez who challenged a semi-retired Mayweather who everyone assumed would be Pacquiao’s* next opponent. MARQUEZ was determined to be Pacquiao’s* next opponent and targeted Mayweather just like he targeted the lightweight division. eliminating the competition and compelling a third bout v. Pacquiao*. god bless him but it was gonna take a miracle for Marquez to prevail v. even a rusty Mayweather at welter. anyway, get it straight and honest: it was Marquez who challenged Mayweather NOT the other way around.Posted January 20, 2014 6:10 pm
May fights khan, he is going to be bloated to he is not a natural 147. It’s ok for floyd to ask for catch weights but not manny who is naturally smaller than everyone he has fought in the last 10 years yet he keeps winning. If floyd wants to accomplish what manny has he needs to win a title at middle, super mid, light heavy. But he can’t he’s not that good.Posted January 20, 2014 6:08 pm
what comes first: the brand new 40,000 seat boxing venue or Mayweather v. Pacquiao*?Posted January 20, 2014 6:06 pm
Tachyon your a clown the guy is a 140 at best and he fought dela cause he wanted it. Cotto was champion so he didn’t make him drain. It’s ok for mayweather to make Marquez gain 17 pound from when he knew he was fighting may (which floyd admits on radio clip on you tune before you get your back up). You have double standards. AND PEEJ WHY WOULD MANNY DUCK FLOYD. Floyd can’t hurt him so if he looses its by decision and he has lost 5 times so he is not afraid to loose so what is it?Posted January 20, 2014 6:04 pm
“What if Floyd accepts or rejects Manny’s dare for a charity fight”? so far, Floyd hasn’t even acknowledged it. another smart business move by “Money”. his indifference contrasts Manny’s* desperation with his own success and confidence. he really doesn’t need Manny*. Pacquiao* needs to bow-down soon before his only remaining PPV-payday languidly drifts away for good.Posted January 20, 2014 6:02 pm
If the fighters really wanted to fight it would be made. Is one more wrong than the other, no. They both have hearts and they both pump piss. If Manny really wanted it Bob could not stand in his way. And if Floyd really wanted it the BS would stop. You people that buy their PPVs are the problem, stop. The networks will make them fight if the $ goes down and the demand goes up. Stop pointing the finger who this and who that, go out with your fav girl that night and don`t talk about it afterword’s, such a waste of time. Really, forget it and watch the fight get made.
I do not buy their PPVs and don`t watch it the next week for free, F them both. There are too many real fighters young and older that deserve my support and money.Posted January 20, 2014 6:00 pm
Fight will never happen because Pac and company will constantly come up with another lame excuse. Unfortunately if Floyd enters in negotiations with Arum, Arum will claim there is not enough time to promote the fight.Posted January 20, 2014 5:53 pm
floyd will always puss out, he’s afraid that pac man will touch up his ugly puss, and he will. the fight will never happen, because floyd will always pull excuses out of his ass.Posted January 20, 2014 5:46 pm
Still waiting, can I please have the prime fighters he has faced and won? Or basically just faced?Posted January 20, 2014 5:30 pm
Pacquiao is not one of greatest, but I admit that he is entertainingPosted January 20, 2014 5:25 pm
The Voice of Boxing
Floyd has been taking shots at Manny for years. Manny has never said anything negative about him despite hi many problems outdside of the ring including his alleged tax problems when it was reported that Oscar/Golden Boy loaned him money and therein forged the loose promtional alliance.
Sorry but I don’t think he is the greates of all time, he is the greatest of his generation thoughPosted January 20, 2014 5:19 pm
So who has Pac fought in his prime?Posted January 20, 2014 5:18 pm
Horrible article. Author wants posts so he fakes a question. UghPosted January 20, 2014 5:16 pm
Pacquiao has faced opponents coming off of loses. When has Pacquiao fought anyone coming off a string of wins?Posted January 20, 2014 5:13 pm
Floyd Mayweather is the Greatest of All Time, his legacy has already been defined by all the title fights he’s been in. No one has fought at his level for the amount of time that he has.Posted January 20, 2014 5:10 pm
When Pac was at the top of his game he used his star power to entice 154 pound guy to drain down to 147 for fights easy wins fighting guys draining down to weights they had not attempted in 5 or 6 years. Other trick bring up a smaller guy from 2 weight divisions below. Cherry picking and stacking the dec. Now with Pacs PPV numbers in the crapper he can’t even pull off those tricks any more. Without May Pacs next fight will be on boxing after dark.Posted January 20, 2014 5:07 pm
PEEj – pac is a cherry-picker?!….that is the dumbest thing you’ve said yet. you cant let your blind devotion to floyd allow you to make statements like this.Posted January 20, 2014 4:54 pm
get over it
Floyd already told Manny to ex Arum and the fight would happen. Look at the history Oscar left top rank fought Floyd, Cotto left top rank fought Floyd. See the pattern Manny? And were is the stadium Arum was building for the fight lol. Manny should have took the 40 million he Floyd offered it, This is just another desperate act among the many that have already not worked in the past. And by Floyd ignoring them just pisses them off and these pactard even more. It beautiful and hilarious the more people that hate the more the interest in Floyd grows he cant loose that’s why his fights sell out. Haters pay to see him as well making him more rich. While Manny will continue to cry and be broke. Man without Floyd who does that leave for Manny has no other fights out there things are looking real bad. Maybe Bradley but hell no one will pay to see it and a lot of people dont even know who Bradley is. Mannys fight with Rios sold less than 475,000 thats not even half of what his fights use to do. Man he is done unless he fights Floyd, And Floyd could careless he is sitting back laughing in his 3 million dollar mansion sad but true.Posted January 20, 2014 4:51 pm
Just for fun???Not
Come on people these guys are prize fighters, they fight for a prize called money.
Couple of you guys have good post. root cause of Pacs current predicament is Pac. 1. Did not take fight 3yrs ago when split was 50/50 2. Got knocked out by JMM 3. Did not pay his taxes all that is Pacs fault no one else. Now Pac has no negotiating leverage with anyone, Arum is being boxed out by May and GB leaving Pac with nothing.Posted January 20, 2014 4:49 pm
Peej: go cheer up Floyd and convince him to grow a pair and just get done with it. Don’t repeat the excuses Floyd made. Go convince him that PAC is so easy to beat and nothing to worry about losing. Go tell him to fight for charity so that Manny won’t earn a single dime for this mega fight since you know Fliyd made tons of money in his previous fight and will last him for life. So go tell him and convince him to fight in the ring.Posted January 20, 2014 4:48 pm
Pacs success has come from great cherry picking. Only if Pac would of fought people in the actual prime and won.Posted January 20, 2014 4:42 pm
Don’t fight the guy that will take everything away. Avoid at all cost! Fame and zero loss = endless money! Greed is a beautiful thing! It’s the only thing!Posted January 20, 2014 4:41 pm
Floyd’s success comes from great cherry picking and greed for money! The devil has all the money in the world.Posted January 20, 2014 4:34 pm
Is this article referring to the same Manny that was put to sleep by the same Marquez that Floyd toyed with???? Maybe I’m missing something.Posted January 20, 2014 4:33 pm
DLP actually Floyd made 200+ million of the canelo fight the highest paid ever. Pac is making peanuts right now he is a joke. God is good you cant knock a man when he is blessed to be in the game for 20 years undefeated and still on top. Haters come with the territory…Posted January 20, 2014 4:30 pm
little floyd knows that Pacquiao doesn’t want to fight LF because he is desperate. It’s was just another Lame MW excuse. What does Little floyd say now. What kind of rock will he crawl under now?.Posted January 20, 2014 4:29 pm
@ teepee … I agree, Mayweather is smart just look at his numbers. Some people don’t realize that Mayweather doesn’t need Pacquiao, and Pacquiao desparately needs MayweatherPosted January 20, 2014 4:17 pm
much as yall pac fans hate to admit pac is at the end and with tax problems pac can thank arum and his self for thatPosted January 20, 2014 4:16 pm
anybody say floyd look stupid by showing money they dont have enough sense to know that ia all for TV ans to keep u tuned in or buy into what he is doing but floyd aint that stupid he get 40mil a fightPosted January 20, 2014 4:12 pm
Mayweather is the most frightened boxer in the world at present, and for someone who is supposed to be intelligent he is making himself look pretty stupid at the moment.Posted January 20, 2014 4:07 pm
anyway i still feel arum is the main reason for the fight not happeningPosted January 20, 2014 4:07 pm
Pacquiao can’t sell PPV without fighting a big name.Posted January 20, 2014 3:59 pm
Peed….Got pissed of with your whining about Arums stadium ,so I rang him and told him …..he said and I quote “Tell the little runt there is no reason to build it now,as Mayrunner will never fight Manny” unquote, I said thanks Bob but that will not stop him rambling on forever and a day….He replied f*** him he should have my worries ….Good ol honest BobPosted January 20, 2014 3:56 pm
What if what, Pacquiao is irrelavent. Mayweather made close to $100 million in the last fightPosted January 20, 2014 3:51 pm
Arum is desperate and this just reaffirms it they have nothing fight for Charity? Manny is last one that needs to fight for free, And we all know who is telling Manny to say these things he is a puppet.Posted January 20, 2014 3:43 pm
Floyd is already doing a charity fight, he’s giving Khan $6m for the mismatch of the century, just to give Amir a retirement fund. That’s what I call charity.Posted January 20, 2014 3:38 pm
Teepee, good points and I agree with all of them.Posted January 20, 2014 3:36 pm
PAC is making himself really look stupid charity and he got tax problems that just another sign he don’t take the fight for real and he really don’t want it just acting like it but he turned down 40mil come on PACPosted January 20, 2014 3:31 pm
But nobody still hasn’t answered my ?? About what happen to this stadium arum was building and it wouldn’t be done in time for the Floyd fight last May and September he’ll we could have built Rome over by now I guess arum just said that to be saying it arum lie so much he forgot he said that lolPosted January 20, 2014 3:26 pm
PAC use to throw punches like that but when the juice thing came up all that stopped I feel PAC was on juice that’s just mePosted January 20, 2014 3:21 pm
I feel it’s about how arum did dlh and Floyd when they was with humans they know arum is no good so they don’t want to arum to make no $$$ of of them and they both want to get him out b/c they (goldenboy and Tmt)feel they hold all the big money fights and hold the cards which I wouldn’t want to do biz with arum eitherPosted January 20, 2014 3:19 pm
Alright; I think Manny would give Floyd a lot of problems. He throws punches in bunches, would be there for the 12 rounds and that guarantees a hard night for FMJ, so I don’t think Floyd is willing to face him for that reason.Posted January 20, 2014 3:15 pm
Gullible author. Honestly, this is called a publicity stunt…jeezPosted January 20, 2014 3:14 pm
Floyd’s ultimatum of Manny leaving Arum seems so difficult for me to digest. What’s really behind Floyd’s imposing condition demand? Are we, the fans, willing or supposed to believe everything we’re told? Are the days gone when two fighters, that REALLY wanted to face one another, INSISTED that their managers/promoters make the fight happen? Gone? It was about, “Let’s see WHO’S the BEST and make some money too!” It was like that in local fights, neighborhood, city, state.. and WORLD rivalries as well. Madison Sq Garden, famed Olympic Auditorium, Philly’s Blue Horizon, Civic Auditorium… filled the seats to witness The BEST vs THE BEST, whether on a local, international or world title level. I remember when my late friend Edwin ‘El Çhapo’ Rosario telling me how much he WANTED to face JC Chavez and Julio WANTED him just as bad. Despite the differences between Jim Jacobs and Don King, the fight was made. Yes, Rosario lost but it was about the fighters wanting to PROVE who was better. Promoters on opposite sides but the fights the fans wanted to see most HAPPENED with regularity. Leonard vs Hearns I, Duran vs Leonard, Gomez vs Zarate, Sanchez vs Gomez, ALL were willing to LAY IT ALL ON THE LINE, when those words TRULY meant something. “Leave your promoter first”?? This I consider an insult to the TRUE warriors of the sport. Can you imagine Ray Robinson telling Kid Gavilan to leave his promoter first, or Ali telling Frazier? Bobby Chacon telling Little Red Lopez? Calzaghi telling Hopkins? Holmes telling Cooney? Gatti telling Ward? Marquez telling Vazquez? Chavez telling Whitaker?? Vargas telling Trinidad?? Of course not!! Why? Because they WANTED it and INSISTED. They had something to prove to THEMSELVES first and then the fans. Call it rivalry, bragging rights, national pride.. or whatever. Is this one, Floyd vs Manny, gonna be about pur$e $plit$, site, preferred refs & judges, ring size, glove manufacturer and… you gotta LEAVE YOUR PROMOTER TOO! Oh well…Posted January 20, 2014 3:06 pm
CAN SOME ONE FEED DEMONYO,ITS HIS BANANA TIMEPosted January 20, 2014 3:04 pm
If you ask me, I’ll say that Arum is also equally guilty if not making that fight. BTW Arum also has all the money in the worldPosted January 20, 2014 2:51 pm
testPosted January 20, 2014 2:40 pm
Even if Mayweather doesn’t fight Pac why would someone consider him a big joke, the guy is an amazing boxer.Posted January 20, 2014 2:39 pm
whatever happen to that stadium that arum said wouldnt be ready in time for a floyd fight from last may lol that was just another excusePosted January 20, 2014 2:29 pm
pac is the cherry picker like freddie said if pac wanted the he could have had it done but pac and arum rather fight the same in house fights and now those fighter have gotting tied of that so where that leaves pac no where lolPosted January 20, 2014 2:27 pm
arum and pac have no real fights and like i said bradley should ask for 50/50 even tho i wont watch the fight on ppv but pac is in a jam he should give it up no juice no win lolPosted January 20, 2014 2:24 pm
Hasn’t Duckweather signed for a Manny fight yet? C’mon Floydie, QUACK QUACK!Posted January 20, 2014 2:14 pm
jmm,ko,s the midget,KO OF THE CENTURY,SPARKED CLEAN OUT AS COLD AS AN ICE CUBE,RICE PICKERS NEVER RECOVER FROM KO,S LIKE THATPosted January 20, 2014 2:12 pm
demonyo swings in the trees,Posted January 20, 2014 2:05 pm
Sound like Pac may have been hiding something. Having the upper hand against other fighters. Good job for protecting Pac saying it is ok to take something that enhances your performances or in other words cheating.Posted January 20, 2014 1:57 pm
That tells you Pac loves fighting and your boss Floyd dancing and some scripted wrestling. Good job PEEJ, Tomato Can and other Floyd Cheerleaders! You can now get your salary from Floyd and share his bed tonight. Don’t forget to bend over really nicely for some rear end collission.Posted January 20, 2014 1:51 pm
Exactly, was he not ready before, why is he all of a sudden ready now to take test but not before?Posted January 20, 2014 1:48 pm
charity the best idea yet -Posted January 20, 2014 1:47 pm
Yes, Pac is good, everyone else is afraid and bad.. We know.Posted January 20, 2014 1:31 pm
Peej, yup… Also Manny now say’s he ready for the scritest random testing available. What does taht tell you when you read between the lines?Posted January 20, 2014 1:30 pm
As you said, these duckers want to be compensated for the risk in fighting Pac. That killed your argument not recognizing duckers’ fears. Fear of the great risk is still fear. That fear makes them duck Pac.Posted January 20, 2014 1:28 pm
I find it funny that nobody can answer the stadium question. Arum clearly declined to make the fight because he said there needed to be time to build an out door stadium for this fight. Has he even began to do that? I guess by the responses to that question then the answer is noPosted January 20, 2014 1:27 pm
personally I don’t think anyone’s ducking Manny. But I doubt any of his peer’s are going to bow down to terms with him. He’s not in the same position he was a couple of years ago..Posted January 20, 2014 1:27 pm
I’m not Heck dog you paranoid fruitcake. And I certainly ain’t crying. I’m just spitting the truth, truth that is obviously far too painful for you fragile delicate souls to handle. Chicken Floyd has been ducking Manny for years, and he’s still ducking him now. He’s such a gutless coward. You’re defending something which is totally indefensible. Surely even you double digit IQ dopes must know that now?
My work here is done. Flomos vaporized Hatton style. Game over. BWAHAHA!Posted January 20, 2014 1:26 pm
I don’t even blame Mayweather for his stance on a fight with Pacquiao. It could be considered ducking. I agree with that… However, Manny’s not on his level. And when he was on Mayweather’s level he chose to let random testing stand in the way of the fight. He then sued Mayweather for defamation. Now Mayweather is the absolute top bill in boxing. He doesn’t need Pac now. The last thing he would want is to even give Pac a chance of taking his place, unless he has to. But he doesn’t right now.Posted January 20, 2014 1:25 pm
I find it funny that Manny refused to take random testing to make a fight with the greatest fighter of his generation, then later to find out Pacs trainer has stated that Pac was given things that he had no clue what they where. Then what is even more ironic is that when he finally does decide to take the testing he agrees to do it after firing his strength and conditioning coach but that same coach we can call him Ariza is now working in Pacs opponents corner, we will call him Rios and Rios comes up dirty. hmmmmmmmmmmmmPosted January 20, 2014 1:23 pm
I am not sure these fighters are ducking Manny — as much as they are being smart businessmen in a tough business where your life is literally at stake.
There is no reason for Bradley to take the fight with Pacquiao — unless he gets a lot of money.
There is no reason for Mayweather to take the fight with Pacquiao — unless he gets most of the money.
All of this really just amounts to negotiating pressure on Bob Arum … who is supposedly the promoter for Pacquiao but he doesn’t really have a good fight for Pacquiao.
This is smart business. You can call it ducking — but these guys risk their lives and the should fight for the appropriate reward given the risk.Posted January 20, 2014 1:17 pm
There’s no defending Chicken Floyd anymore. His cowardice and ducking is so blatant and undeniable that not even the best legal team in the world could win the case for him. Keep spinning away Flomos. Deep down even you guys know you lost the battle and the war. The delicious irony about it is Chicken Floyd, ie. the fraud you’ve been defending all this time, is the one who’s responsible to depleting all your ammo reserves. BWAHAHA!Posted January 20, 2014 1:16 pm
It’s looking like Pacquiao is going ot have to fight Alvarado or Provodnikov next.. Cause he can’t make fight’s happen with guys who’ve already beat him on paper, and by knockout.Posted January 20, 2014 1:13 pm
Mayweather’s ducking Manny: Marquez is ducking Manny; and Bradley’s ducking Manny. Everyone’s ducking Manny “a guy who was starched just two fights ago”…Posted January 20, 2014 1:11 pm
Tell Manny to stop ducking Bradley, Chicken Floyd is really heck dog. Another retard who thinks Mannys pisses gold. Marquez told me to tell you guys that Manny was so worried about Floyd that he didnt see that overhand right he was about to be hit with lol. Chicken I have never seen a grown man cry like you, You need to check your nuts. Man up sissy nobody cares about Manny and stupid fools like you buy into anything the media says, Manny said he would take the blood test Manny said he would only take 30 percent Manny Manny Manny. Just like Arum was going to build a stadium for the fight and had billion dollars investors right? And we still waiting on that. Next the will be saying once Manny becomes the president of the Philippines he will try to make Obama force the fight to happen. lol Truth is Manny is a whore and his pimp is Arum now they are no big fights hell even guys like Bradley and Marquez are tired of being messed over and they told Arum to kick rocks. Right now the fat lady is singing for your boy Manny.Posted January 20, 2014 1:11 pm
What are you saying Tomato Can? Isn’t Rios a TR fighter? The reason Pac has no final opponent yet is due to negotiation process. That cannot happen overnight. You can go back to the can where you belong and check your analysis.Posted January 20, 2014 1:10 pm
Chicken Floyd’s fear and cowardice is what defines him. BWAHAHA!Posted January 20, 2014 1:09 pm
Mayweather, Marquez, and Bradley all have something in common right now. None of them are willing to bend over to Pacquiao’s terms. So where’s that leave Pacquiao? I think he’s going to have to change things up, and give up a little more. Something all fighters have to do with recent back to back losses.Posted January 20, 2014 1:09 pm
Kill myself? Not me, buddy. Chicken Floyd might though when he runs out of excuses to keep ducking Manny. I think he fears Manny more than he fears the Grim Reaper.
Yes can fight anyone he wants, just as long as they fit his criteria and the formula he’s been strictly adhering to for, well his entire smoke and mirrors sham of a career, ie. that they’re not a great fighter in their prime. How does Amir Khan sound to you? BWAHAHA!
And it’s not just the Pactards who think Chicken Floyd is ducking Manny, it’s EVERYONE on planet Earth. BWAHAHA!
Now hy don’t youtell us all how much money Chicken Floyd earns again, little child? And while you’re at it see you can name one great prime fighter he’s fought who during his 17 years at the top of the sport? BWAHAHA!
Checkmate.Posted January 20, 2014 1:07 pm
As it stands, Manny seems to have trouble coming to terms with anyone. So expecting him to somehow find a way to make the Mayweather fight happen is a tall order… He can’t even make fights with top rank fighters right now.Posted January 20, 2014 1:05 pm
This fight has always been about irreconcilable differences. Manny’s and Floyd will probably never come to terms to a fight, unless Mayweather loses to someone else. As it stands, as much as Pac supposedly wants the fight, he’s no longer in the drivers seat.Posted January 20, 2014 1:03 pm
@teflon: Floyd has not cemented anything other than his wraps using Xylocaine. His legacy of cherry picking is spectacular and he only attracts sexually infatuated fans like you. He lost to Castillo and Dela Hoya. He got knocked down by Judah. What s t u pid legacy are u talking about? Without pom poms weilding, wet-between-the-legs fans like you no one will feed his ego and sing his praises.Posted January 20, 2014 1:02 pm
these dopey yanks will still be talking about this sh#t in five years time.Posted January 20, 2014 12:57 pm
Chicken Floyd kill yourself, No one man defines another, Floyd legacy is already cemented, Manny lost 5 times now he is done, He needs Floyd he never should have let himself be put in a position to need another man to either bail in out of money troubles or one big fight to happen. Back in 09 yes this fight could have been mega, Now no one cares about it people have moves on, Look at that garbage ass fight Manny had with Rios that says it all lol. Meanwhile Floyd contiues to sell out vegas and make tons of money doing it, You pacnutts cry Floyd is scared Floyd is avoiding Manny. Manny is the best how many times can you say the same thing? Moron the real looser in all of this is Manny, He is broke and has nothing without Floyd, Floyd on the other hand can fight anyone he wants,Posted January 20, 2014 12:48 pm
I guarantee you 100% Chicken Floyd will find an excuse to wriggle out of this one too.Posted January 20, 2014 12:37 pm
Chicken Floyd just keeps on putting obstacles and roadblocks in the way, and when Manny tears them down and brushes aside his excuses, Chicken Floyd creates more.
Funny how the only fighter who refused to fight Manny unless he underwent additional testing just so happened to be the ”greatest of all times” and was a know cherrypicking ducker who still to this day has never once fought a great fighter who was in their prime despite him ”being at the top of the sport for 17 years”?
And guess what? That same fighter also just so happened to be the only one who was worried about their health. Not one of Manny’s other opponents or potential rivals else were worried about theirs. Only Chicken Floyd was the one putting barricades in the way and making stipulations.
“Fighter of the Decade” Manny Pacquiao awaits the response of undefeated pound for pound king Floyd Mayweather Jr to the Filipino’s challenge for the American to face him in the ring in a fight boxing fans have long wanted to see, with all income going to worldwide charities.
Pacquiao pulled off what many consider a masterstroke after Mayweather derided the eight division world champion on several occasions recently, claiming that Pacquiao was begging for a Mayweather fight because he had tax issues with both the US Internal Revenue Service and the Bureau of Internal Revenue in the Philippines.
While Pacquiao’s next opponent hasn’t been decided on as yet and Mayweather Jr hasn’t formally announced whether Amir Khan will be his next opponent this May, Pacquiao has fired back at Mayweather by challenging him to a fight and for both of them to agree to donate all proceeds, including their purses, pay for view income and other ancillary revenues to charities around the world.
In an interview with ABS-CBN reporter Dyan Castillejo, Pacquiao scoffed at the claim that he was only looking to fight Mayweather for the money and said he is “willing to fight for charity” and that depending on Mayweather’s response fans will know who is willing to fight and who is not.
Pacquiao reiterated he is ready to face Mayweather “anywhere, anytime” and said “let’s see what his answer will be since he claimed I was desperate for money and I am willing to fight for nothing.”
The eight division world champion said there should be no problem about his offer to fight Mayweather with all proceeds going to charity indicating it should not be a problem for the promoters of both himself and Mayweather.
Pacquiao in an earlier interview with Aquiles Z. Zonio said he was “not desperate to fight him (Mayweather) just for the money or material things” and added he is “ready to submit to any kind of stringent drug testing and challenged the undefcated American to sign a contract which will state that gate receipts, PPV and endorsements as well as their guaranteed purses would be donated to charities around the world.Posted January 20, 2014 12:31 pm
PEEJ…With Mayweather in the mix it will never happen cause he needs to grow a pair for the fight to happen. And guess what, Floyd doesn´t have a pair so that is the main reason why it hasn´t happened yet. Along with charity idea why don´t they make it a winner take all. If Foyd is so confident he should have no problems accepting that idea. Everyone knows what he is like and sick of all the excuses he has made. He´s a coward who is afraid to face someone that has a definate chance of taking his 0. In boxing it doesn´t matter if you lose, if you face the best out there and lose, hold your head up high and take it like a man. If you are not willing to face the best then you are a coward, full stop!!!Posted January 20, 2014 12:17 pm
Stadium, tax, Arum, IRS, BIR, does any of those have anything to do with fighting PEEJ? By the way give your s p e rm donor Floyd another excuse and throw in the mix issues like Pac should slap first his mother Dionisia, dump his wife and banish his children otherwise he will not fight him.Posted January 20, 2014 12:16 pm
@Floyd’s issue – “No fighter or athlete has ever demanded another fighter to change their manager in order to fight…Floyd is insane and everybody defending him too”
You mean like Bradley and Marquez being forced to switch to Top Rank just to get a Pacquiao fight recently?Posted January 20, 2014 12:15 pm
I don’t like floyd anymore. I’ll release my kungfu grip on his nuts. To sweetwillyd, markq,smoak let go of floyd’s nuts. Don’t stick to it like barnaclesPosted January 20, 2014 12:13 pm
pacmanophobia is a mayweather disease flomos cant accept that maynever have sickness pacmanophobia …..his balls shrink already ….heartbeat 10x faster ……..just run to n%&^%$$I##$$G55^&*&*4G%$# ger landPosted January 20, 2014 12:12 pm
Mayweather may as well just call Pacquiao’s bluff because there is no way in the nine hells that Pacquiao would follow through with it (and he’s only making the statement because he knows Mayweather would never do it either).Posted January 20, 2014 12:10 pm
DEMONYO, SUK MY ROOT,TREE SWINGERPosted January 20, 2014 12:02 pm
PBF is a business man why would he accept a ridicules lame brain idea from Pac the man who can’t even pay the IRS, would not take 40 million, and gave up almost 100 million because he is afraid of random test. Now that Pacs stock is on the toilet, can only fight recycled Arum boxers, bank accounts locked down, he is begging Mayweather to save him. Pac should get worst business man of the decade award,Posted January 20, 2014 12:01 pm
F@k of Johny smith,with a capital F!!Posted January 20, 2014 12:00 pm
So let me ask this question then, has Arum even looked in to building the stadium that was obviously one of the reasons the fight did not get made? Arum said they needed to build a stadium for this fight so before any negotiations can take place, has he even started that yet because as per Arum the fight can’t be made unless that happens.Posted January 20, 2014 11:51 am
“Stop writing stories about the Fight until Manny drops Top Rank.”
Boxtra$$wipe, if the money goes to charity, it doesn’t matter who promotes whom because it will not affect the money the fighters receive which would be $0.00. Besides Mayweather wanting Pac to drop Arum is just another ploy to delay him having to face the Pacman.Posted January 20, 2014 11:47 am
AFRICANS GOT THE LOWEST IQ ON RACE ISSUE!! PACQUIAO STATEMENT IS CHALLENGING MAYWEATHER JUST TO FIGHT FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT … NOT ABOUT NOTHING TO DO ABOUT BOXING!!!!!DOESNT WANT TO HEAR HIS BS GHETTO TALK …. ITS A CHALLENGE…CHECK IQ AMONG RACES ……THE TRUTH WILL US ALL FREE !!Posted January 20, 2014 11:44 am
Let us not give in to Floyd the brat kid’s demand. Guess what? After dumping Arum he will ask Pac to dump Jinkee.Posted January 20, 2014 11:43 am
Batangueño Comes Alive
I doubt Floyd cares what Pac wants to do with his money. Pac should start by dumping Arum. Then see where it takes him.Posted January 20, 2014 11:37 am
PACMANOPHOBIA?? Gee that’s too bad. Get well soon Floyd!Posted January 20, 2014 11:22 am
@Peej: is logic foreign language to u? Pac said charity fight coz Floyd’s excuse was that Pac was cashing out in fighting your employer Floyd. The point is making the fight happen. Your sense of logic is clouded by your infatuation with your employerPosted January 20, 2014 11:21 am
SIR CHARLES BARKLEY
Floyd, I just heard the news about your PACMANOPHOBIA disease from Larry Bird. You sure d Peej or Vivek anit got your balls stuck down their throats?Posted January 20, 2014 11:19 am
Arum will never let this fight be for charity. Funny how Pac turned 40 mil down but now its not about money. So confused. Fight will never happen with Arum in the picture.Posted January 20, 2014 11:15 am
@Midget: u are an idiot. The fight is charity what final pay day are u talking about moron? Go run away with Floyd. By the way stop sucking his raw meatPosted January 20, 2014 11:13 am
Doesn’t matter. Constantly writing articles about a fight that is not gonna happen. With Arum in the mix it will not happen.Posted January 20, 2014 10:51 am
f@k of john smith!!!as if that pygmy would take a beating for nout!!!idiotPosted January 20, 2014 10:42 am
FLOYD!! Wanna play a game? No? What, no balls? You must have PACMAMOPHOBIA!! I better tell Mike and Scotty.Posted January 20, 2014 10:41 am
FM wants no part of MP. It’s that simple.Posted January 20, 2014 10:40 am
Look’a here Money May, pull down yo zipper, suka. Check’n see if ya got balls? They gone? Better git yo’self a pair n’ fight dat midget b’fo we be thinkin you’s a nutin but’a sissy azz punk.Posted January 20, 2014 10:37 am
Watched PACS last fight then straight after watched Floyds. Floyds looked like it was in slow mo. PAC would bust him upPosted January 20, 2014 10:31 am
Hey Lil Floyd, where’s your balls, brother man? Ya don’t know?? You must have PACMANOPHOBIA!!Posted January 20, 2014 10:29 am
DID YOU READ? FOR CHARITY WTF !!! LOTS OF IDIOTSPosted January 20, 2014 10:25 am
the pygmy rice man sounds very desperate for a final pay day,jmm juggled his brains with the mother of all KO,SPosted January 20, 2014 10:23 am
GOV HUGH CALL MAYWEATHER SCARED ……. NEXT PRES. OBAMA WILL CALL THE BIGGEST CHICKEN/POLLO IN THE AFRICAN COMMUNITY…….AFRICAN BRO. YOU LOOK US LOOK BAD MAN UP FIGHT PACMAN……. EMBARRASSING …..BOYCOTT HIS FIGHT UNLESS ITS PACMAN ONLY THIS 2014.././… BOYCOTT KHAN …LET SHOWTIME LOSE ITS MONEY ON HIM….Posted January 20, 2014 10:09 am
Where’s your balls Floyd?Posted January 20, 2014 10:02 am
WAKE UP FLOYD YOUR NEXT FIGHT PACMAN …….OR WHAT NO WANTYS SEE ME TO LOSE ANYMORE EVEN I CHERRY PICK ONES …..LISTEN TO BOXING FANS ……. BOXING FANS KNOWS YOU ARE A DUCKER PROVE THEM WRONG FIGHT THE PHILIPPINO …….. BTW YOU WHY THE COLT 45 WAS INVENTED ….TO KNOCK DOWN THOSE MIDGETS IN THE PHILIPPINES …..MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE BALLS AND COLT 45 IN THE RING……..PACMAN MIGHT BE TURN OUT TO BE THE MIDGET THAT WILL YOU NO MERCY OUHHHHH MY GHETTO FACE BUSTED ,MY MOUTH BUSTED …NOW I LOOK MY ….. MON %3^&*%&*KEY DAD SCAREDPosted January 20, 2014 9:37 am
this writer is obsessed with floyd, his hatred & jeolous of mayweather success is showing in his article , get over it reni seriously .Posted January 20, 2014 9:12 am
Governor Hugh could be right after all, “Floyd may be worse than a coward because a coward wakes up when he is called a coward especially by a rival.” Prove him wrong Floyd.
I am tired of all this back and forward. What Pac has done is put the ball directly in Money’s court. It is Money’s call to fight or not fight. It’s clear for what ever reason, Money still does not want this fight. Money beats everybody out there–most likely he can beat Pac. Just don’t know what he waiting for. May be it’s time for him to retire.Posted January 20, 2014 9:04 am
Floyd has already agreed a fight for charity … the Amir Khan Retirement Fund is the charity Floyd will be signing up for if the reports are true. I hope not. Khan is a joke.Posted January 20, 2014 8:57 am
Please not Khan.Posted January 20, 2014 8:54 am
Manny will knock Floyd Mayweather out if they ever do fight…Posted January 20, 2014 8:40 am
A man is always proud of he he was and proud of his heritage !!! Pacman as a true warrior follow that rules , he win in bradley , fight but judges take away the win , he lost to marquez via ko but if you see marquez he become incredible hulk …..but hecontinue to move on…… on maynever I am the greatest stance everybody knows 4 to 5 years now he is ducking pacman ……We all knew pacman was, the fighter of the decade …..the best 8 weight division champ of the world ….. Now we the ameicans that serve in the military & boxing fans stay in Africa where you are from … We dont want you to be here….You said moneyproblem with pacman …. you are stupid Pacman investment farm & properties they could not be broke!!!!! Now you are bad example even the brothers in america look bad because of your cowardness stay in africa America deport this ghetto!!!!Posted January 20, 2014 8:18 am
This fight will never happen, never. When are people just going to let go?
Sounds great, unfortunately it’s not going to happen because Floyd is protecting his “0”. He could be considered GOAT if he starts fighting the fights that the public wants to see, when they want to see it, and starts doing the unexpected, e.g. beating a real middleweight (Canelo does not count, was far too green to fighting Floyd). He should fight Bradley next, then Manny, then fight Sergio or GGG, and then call it quits. If he wins them all, he will be multiple division champ, kept his “0” and could be considered among the top ATGs (along with SRR, Ali, Joe Louis, Chavez Sr, Duran)….nuff said.Posted January 20, 2014 7:46 am
ordinary boxing fan
GGG: I will fight Sergio, Floyd should fight Pacquiao. Then the winners fight each other.Posted January 20, 2014 7:02 am
Broner loves you
It is still DUCK SEASON. Big bro Floyd will look for another excuse. That’s what smart people do if their health is threaten.Posted January 20, 2014 6:30 am
Ha ha ha! Manny is willing to fight Floyd for free!!! As well as adhering to his drug testing requirements. And Manny is well past his prime years too. Yet he’s still willing to face Mayweather! …… How will Floyd dodge this one??Posted January 20, 2014 6:04 am
Floyd has gotten too big and greedy! He doesn’t give to charities. He rather gamble his money away and think of it as a charities to all the casino owners and thier employees.Posted January 20, 2014 5:41 am
Mayweather is an animal in the ring… He is either a chicken or a duck or bothPosted January 20, 2014 5:29 am
TETUMBO, BOXTRADAMYU ETC… MURIT KAYU LOKO!!!Posted January 20, 2014 5:20 am
HEY FLOYD & COMPANY.. IS THERE A PROBLEM? JUST FIGHT! ONLY PACMAN & FLOYD IS INSIDE THE RING WITHOUT ARUM..SO WHATS THE PROBLEM? ONE + ONE EHH.Posted January 20, 2014 5:18 am
Peed….He is not the best fighter on the planet……not yet any ways..Posted January 20, 2014 5:02 am
Why has Manny got to drop Arum…it makes no difference to Floyd he has no argument with Arum….He left amicable …Arum has said nothing against Floyd,there were no writs flying around….no, this is a smoke screen put up by Bunny to divert attention from not fighting MannyPosted January 20, 2014 4:58 am
WHEN floyd pieces that fool. what will you little pricks say then.Posted January 20, 2014 4:51 am
That wasn’t me that’s an imposter we all know I love floyd and I don’t want his sweat I want his balls slapping on my a s s cheeksPosted January 20, 2014 4:49 am
I want floyds sweat all over me when he spanking by butt. Manny pac is the best I ever did seePosted January 20, 2014 4:48 am
I’m gonna rub floyds nuts with my tonguePosted January 20, 2014 4:45 am
Read peej’s comments. Signs of desperation from flemmingsPosted January 20, 2014 4:04 am
Mayweather’s cheerleader Te Tumbo should mow realize along with his employer that Pac just wants to fight for the fans and not money. Now it’s either Scaredweather step up to the plate or send his mouthpiece Te Tumbo to spread new excuses. What a shamePosted January 20, 2014 3:40 am
Floyd is the BEST OF ALL TIME, P4P Super Star with most ppv sales. He is the best fighter on the Planet.Posted January 20, 2014 3:24 am
I really hope that nobody accuses me of being Floyd nut hugger because I am not eating this load of garbage up with a silver spoon. I am sure there will be some Manny fan out there somewhere though that will do just that. After all if you don’t agree with all of there b.s. your instantly an idiot and you don’t know anything about boxing and bla bla bla. We have heard it all before. I honestly am not a major fan of either one or them but I do realize they both have skills . I will tell you the thing that bothers me the most is blind loyalty for either man. I feel like I am going on in a huge rant now…Posted January 20, 2014 3:11 am
Is it me or does this guy really seem not to like Mayweather much? I seriously doubt Manny actually wants to fight for charity. It is just the latest ploy to try to make the other guy look bad. Is uncle Bob willing to donate his cut to charity as well? Or golden boy for that matter? Anybody that falls for this is truly a fool. Yes that means you author.Posted January 20, 2014 2:59 am
COWARD,COWARD,COWARD,COWARD,COWARD,COWARD,COWARD,COWARD,Posted January 20, 2014 2:56 am
Are you fans just as idiotic as Floyd… Hope not cause the only way to get away with his garbage is by being a p4p 2 boxer with lots of brain washed hanger-onners. If you ain’t got all of this then you just stupid n!$$er!!Posted January 20, 2014 2:54 am
Man up Floyd – Ya coward!!Posted January 20, 2014 2:49 am
you Floyd fans are sooooo blind it’s embarrasing!! Get off this mans propaganda and push for the fight cause he don’t care about you. What do you want to see instead – Khan vs Mayweather???? FOOLS!!!Posted January 20, 2014 2:47 am
ESB is becoming a joke letting these Filipino writers post these bias garbage articlesPosted January 20, 2014 2:45 am
Actually we are still waiting on the stadium Arum was supposed to be building for the fight? Oh yeah and what about all the billion dollar investors they had? Manny said he would do anything to fight Floyd but ended up doing nothing, This is just the latest in the ever going saga to try to work there leverage but it hasn’t worked yet. Same crap they been doing for year chasing Floyds jock strap Manny is hanging on Flpyds nuts, But Manny is so humble and stupid Arum is behind all of this, Floyd is too smart for that. Manny is nothing more than a fly at a barbecue, Instead of him facing guys like Danny Garcia, Maidana or even Malligani, Arum tries to work his BS, Floyd already told him at no terms will he deal with Arum non negotiable. Cotto leaves top rank fights Floyd, Oscar leaves top rank fights Floyd, You see the pattern?, Floyd dosent need Manny and I am sure he has plenty of tax write off for charity. As far as these pactards are concerned Manny never lost a fight and Marquez didnt KTFO of him. Yeah Manny poses such a treat he hasn’t been relevant or dominate since 09. I am sure Floyd is terrified lol…Posted January 20, 2014 2:05 am
Absolutely absurd! Manny needs to stop it, he’s embarrassing himself.Posted January 20, 2014 1:50 am
Floyd please do not bite the bait. I love you so much. I do not want to get you hurt. Please find excuses not to fight Manny.Posted January 20, 2014 1:49 am
Floyd is not going to fight the richest fight ever for free. I suggest Pacquiao find a billionaire in China or Singapore who will put up a 250 million dollar guarantee to be divided anyway Floyd and you would like.
The billionaire investor would make a profit and you 2 could fight. You could offfer to let Floyd have 150 million dollars of the guaranteed minimum ssince he is the world’s consensus number one P4P fighter. Then you might have your fight because Floyd loves money.Posted January 20, 2014 1:30 am
The Facts !
Mayweather is between a rock and hard place ,,sooner or later he has to respond to Pacquiao challenge ..this is it guys , is Mayweather truly afraid of Pacquiao ,,Mayweather can’t let this latest challenge go by and think it will just die out …And don’y give me the bull sh-t about Pacquiao has to drop Top Rank .Posted January 20, 2014 1:19 am
Last thing manny needs is 2 fight 4 free. This talk is mute.Posted January 20, 2014 1:19 am
Void fans do hope that he tries to ignore Pac and never fights him because even Void fans know that Pac will knock Void out. Void is afraid of Pac, extremely afraid, so are Void’s fans.Posted January 20, 2014 1:17 am
get over it
I hope Floyd continues to ignore Pac, Fight for charity? lol what a joke if thats the case why does fighting Floyd even Matter? He could have donated his purse from any of his fight to charity, Then he said its what the fans want to see? What fans the 475,000 that watched his last fight?Hell no Manny is desperate Floyd should ignore him and Arum and see how funky it gets. 2014 Manny has nothing. Even if he fights BradleyPosted January 20, 2014 1:14 am
Manny just hit the ball in Floydie’s court. Let us see him respond.Posted January 20, 2014 1:05 am
“Manny’s request to fight on the moon and for charity is about as unreasonable as FMJ request for him to drop Arum”-LMFAO! No its NOT. Cotto just DID it. Marquez DID it when he fought Floyd TOO….Now name me TWO people who have fought on the moon….I won’t hold MY breath waiting on YOU to reply. I like LIVING.Posted January 20, 2014 1:03 am
Petition: Let’s start a charity to help out the broke congressman, and to pay Reni Venezuela from writing anymore Pacquiao articles
Congressman Pacquiao Fund
Floyd is a pussy he could get a billion for 3 rounds and still turn it down the muppetPosted January 20, 2014 12:30 am
Again Reni, im now dumber from reading that. Manny is broje and Floyd loves the cash….charity match? Pfffft iv heard it allPosted January 20, 2014 12:23 am
Reni Valenzuela – Please stop writing articles about Pacquiao
Stop.Posted January 20, 2014 12:21 am
Floyd is way too all about the money to fight for free! Broke as manny is why is he fighting for free! LolPosted January 20, 2014 12:20 am
* subtle art ….. derp….Posted January 20, 2014 12:16 am
Boxtradamus… Manny’s request to fight on the moon and for charity is about as unreasonable as FMJ request for him to drop Arum.Manny seems to understand the art subtle art of Irony and Sarcasm , something that went right over the top of Floyd’s and your head.Posted January 20, 2014 12:14 am
In a final taunt, Pacquiao said:
“Floyd, if you’re a real man, fight me. Let’s do it for the love of boxing and for the fans. Let’s do it not for the sake of money. Let’s make the boxing fans happy.”Posted January 20, 2014 12:03 am
It won’t matter. Pac will still be broke and begging like the fourth world congressman he is.Posted January 20, 2014 12:02 am
Don’t try to dictate what Floyd does with HIS money. First get rid of Arum like Cotto DID and then you can DO with YOUR purse what YOU like.Posted January 20, 2014 12:00 am
i knew it ben thompson will twist the issue…. i bet you cris williams will follow … i bet you they got paid double to protect floyd once again.Posted January 19, 2014 11:56 pm
Pbf is now know as a coward instead of a good fighter , a lot like Lennox Lewis. He better fight PAC or it will haunt him his whole life. Win or lose hopefully he won’t go out like a bit.h.Posted January 19, 2014 11:48 pm
Oh no, but not Floyd.. he’s no Tyson.. people will not watch his fight anymore.. showtime will go bankruptPosted January 19, 2014 11:34 pm
Manny is biting at the bit to get to Mayweather. It is now and not about the money. It appears Manny passion to fight Mayweather, the FIGHT when it happens got Knockout written all over it.
yes > “No fighter or athlete has ever demanded another fighter to change their manager in order to fight…Floyd is insane and everybody defending him too…it is an excuse, no question. Please stop trying to manipulate reality to support your fighter who simply does not want to fight Pac. He has too much too lose…”Posted January 19, 2014 11:28 pm
Some posters like te tumbo is part of this cowardice problem, as he prefers to attack the writer, instead of putting pressure to the coward one to put up and fight. Mayweather has painted himself into a corner, regarding this ducking, and has no one to blame but himself.Posted January 19, 2014 11:22 pm
No fighter or athlete has ever demanded another fighter to change their manager in order to fight…Floyd is insane and everybody defending him too…it is an excuse, no question. Please stop trying to manipulate reality to support your fighter who simply does not want to fight Pac. He has too much too lose…Posted January 19, 2014 11:18 pm
“Get over with “I think you are Mayweather. Common be a man , fight. Stop making excuses.Posted January 19, 2014 11:05 pm
get over it
I swear ESB has gone Manny vs. Floyd crazy here lately. No one even cares about this fight anymore. Manny and Arum knows that the public interest for this fight or any of his other fights are long gone and not coming back. So he needs to stir up drama and BS say anything to draw attention so that he remains relevant, Because right Now Floyd is winning, Every article is nonsense who is writing this trash. And better yet who outside of these pactards believes it? Floyd is scared Floyd is avoiding Manny. Manny is the only risk to Floyd undefeated record, We hear it all. lol How many times can you say the same things? I think its hilarious how these grown men whine and moan about a guy that made over 300 million last year, Kahn is easy work he will get beat from pillar to post or maybe even KTFO and Floyd will make 150 Million to do it, Not to worry, Manny might land another bout with Bradley or maybe even Ruslan and no one will pay to see it and he still will be broke so everyone walks away happy lol…Posted January 19, 2014 10:55 pm
Stop writing stories about the Fight until Manny drops Top Rank. Fighting for charity or not is not the issue. Thats called a diversion tactic……Floyd: Drop Top Rank. Manny: Lets Fight for charity!….Floyd: WTF!!?? Do you understand English??? I SAID drop Top Rank!!! Manny: Lets Fight on the Moon!! Floyd: WTF??? Man go take an ENGLISH class.Posted January 19, 2014 10:41 pm
Reni’s feverish imagination is working overtime. otherwise, THERE IS NO “CHARITY” scenario like he describes beyond his desperate and delusional ESB blogs. never mind Mayweather “ignoring” St. Pacquiao’s* “call”. he hasn’t even heard it and it’s the rest of the boxing world that chooses to ignore it. exposing Reni for the big joke once again.Posted January 19, 2014 10:37 pm