Boxing News and Views

Crashing Dashing Kid

I try not to comment these days and all lists are subjective but this list fails to accept the consensus of those who actually saw some of the old time fighters in their prime. My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that some fighters here are ranked too low and others fighters have been carelessly overlooked. My list reads. Also we must recognise that some fighters on the list were never undisputed:
1. Ted Kid Lewis – fought the best available opposition during his era from featherweight to light-heavyweight Carpentier, Glover, Leonard, Britton, Gibbons. He was rated the best british fighter those who should know; Fleischer, Dempsey, Berg, Gutteridge, Carpenter & by the British Boxing Writers
2. Jimmy Wilde – missed top spot due to the uneven quality of opposition he faced. Sure he gave away weight but always had speed and experience on his side. Wilde was unbeatable in his prime at his weight but Kid Lewis fought the better quality of opposition & gave away home advantage, home refereeing too.
3. Bob Fitzsimmons – won the heavyweight title, light heavyweight title and the middleweight title against all time greats. Like Ted Kid Lewis he fought on way beyond his prime primarily to earn his daily bread but won his titles when each championship was undisputed.
4. Lennox Lewis – he beat every man he ever faced and was the most avoided heavyweight of the modern era. Tyson paid millions to avoid him and Bowe dumped the WBC belt rather than face Lewis. The knock that Holyfield was past it when he faced Lewis ignores the fact that they were about the same age when they did fight and that Lewis gave up home advantages in those fights and had to contend with US referees and some suspect judging.
5. Joe Calzaghe – this modern great should rate higher but he avoided US soil for too long, defending the WBO title from Europe. Still he managed to beat Jones, Hopkins, Kessler, Eubank & Lacy at a time when Lacy was a feared fighter.
6. Benny Lynch – missed off the EB list but though his rule was short, we saw enough to recognise that this man had it all, style, power, experience and toughness during the golden age of Flyweights.
7. Jackie Kid Berg – another who fought on too long but we should remember he beat a prime Kid Chocolate, handing him his first loss and also fought the best Americans in the US
8. Ken Buchanan – Duran was once asked who his toughest opponent was. He snarled back “Buchanan”. Nuff said.
9. Ricky Hatton – overlooked already but this light welterweight was a force of nature in his prime and only lost to two of the greatest fighters of all time in Mayweather and Pacquiao. Forced to fight at welterweight where the big money was but won world crowns at two weights and was a success in the USA.
10. Randy Turpin – beat Sugar Ray and was ahead in the second fight too until the maestro stormed back in the 10th. That alone gets you on this list.

Fighters who lost out but I’d accept anyone’s decision that they replace anyone on the bottom half of my list:
Nigel Benn: beat the unbeatable GMAN and was a success in the US until he became avoided.
Owen Moran: just came up short a couple of times when most neutrals thought he’s won but chased the best the world over
Jim Driscoll: best featherweight of his time but refused to chase the title at a time when the champ was cheat

Fighters who harmed their legacy by either avoiding the best, refusing to fight in the US or Unify: Hamed, Welsh & Eubank.

Posted April 28, 2013 7:42 am

Kenny Weldon

Look at Ray Robinsons record and who he fought .Look at Willy Peps record and who he fought. Todays fighter ,with few exceptions do not even come close in comparison.The boxing ring is 20×20 the past 100 or so years ,with four corners and four ropes.Fighters are easy to compare for knowledgeable boxing coaches.All one must do is evalluate what they did in that 20×20 boxing ring .The rest is political and corrupt. Race ,creed or color scores no points……God bless….kenny weldon…their contribution to the game is in their greatness in that 20×20 ring.

Posted August 17, 2012 5:28 pm

Daly jr

People are easily blinded by ”the good old days”. I was never a calzaghe fan, but he deserves to be well up there. I honestly think that Froch could break into my top 10 if he avenges the Kessler defeat, beats Bute again, and goes up to LHW and wins a title before he retires. I also beleive that Ricky burns could make it too if he becomes more active (3 or 4 fights a year), he reminds me of ken buchannan

Posted August 9, 2012 11:29 am

Neil (pomy)

I still dont understand how people can rate fighters they have never even watched?

Posted August 7, 2012 11:14 am

Neil (pomy)

So Bwen Johnson was born in West Ham London and lived there until he was 12 years old ….. i did not know that!!!! Ben Johnson muct be British aswell then

Posted August 7, 2012 6:22 am

OneInchPunch

Neil… most of the time i agree with your Post/veiws…. But Joe C wanted to fight the best?? Well Lacy…. Yes …. Kessler… Yes but an over the hill Roy Jones and B’hop…. more like past there best!!

Posted August 7, 2012 4:17 am

Mix

Between the wars: In no order.
Len Harvey.
Jack”Kid”Berg.
Eric Boon/Arthur Danahar.
Peter Kane.
Jackie Brown.
Ernie Roderick.
Tommy Farr.
Benny Lynch.
Jock McAvoy.

Posted August 7, 2012 2:55 am

bikermike

:Shane…..the truth is a bitter pill for some to swallow

Posted August 6, 2012 8:04 pm

Mix

Sorry corbet was a mistake.

Posted August 6, 2012 7:59 pm

Mix

In my mind, pre World war I happens to be.
Bob Fitzsimmons.
Ted”kid”Lewis.
Jimmy Wilde.
Freddie Welsh.
Charlie Mitchell.
Billy Edwards.
Jem Mace.
Tom Allen
Jim Carney
Billy Wells.

Matt Wells.
James J.Corbett.

Posted August 6, 2012 7:58 pm

Kid Blast

Neil (pomey) has the beat

Posted August 6, 2012 4:14 pm

Kid Blast

No Calzaghe, how ridiculous !!

Posted August 6, 2012 4:13 pm

Kid Blast

Benn?

Posted August 6, 2012 4:12 pm

chap69

McGuigan was British champion

Posted August 6, 2012 3:33 pm

nicolas

Is Jim Murry really Nat Fliescher coming back from the grave? I find the list absurd in that 6 of the 10 fighters he has listed here were men who fought before 1920. Interesting also that he does not have any fighters who started their careers in the 20′s or 30′s, though I might be hard pressed to be able to name a fighter worthly on the list, though a flyweight champ might make it there. While I don’t doubt the toughness of the 6 fighters Mr. Murray names, I would point out to him that many of those fighters while living in far more difficult times did not have to engage in contests with many black fighters or fighters of other ethnic groups as many of the British fighters engaging in contests since the 50′s. The information that he gives about those fighers is very welcome, but for me is list is really flawed in logic. That Joe Clazaghe, and even many other British fighters are not on the list makes this list not very credible.

Posted August 6, 2012 3:22 pm

Shane

This new ESB stinks! Where all the British posters attacking me! I goaded them good here but noone is here! It used to be fun guys but it looks to be the past, I shall miss going back and forth throwing out posts that get some knickers bunched up! :sad:

Posted August 6, 2012 3:15 pm

Shane

Lewis is the most overrated fighter of recent date. He got KTFO with ONE punch TWICE by C level fighters. Went life and death with a shot old Holyfield almost losing the rematch and took 8 rounds to beat a shot to complete pieces Tyson. His biggest wins came from shot fighters way past their best. Rest of the list looks good and Calzaghe was left off the list the same reason Lewis should have been. Best wins are ALL fighters past their best or never were’s. :cool:

Posted August 6, 2012 2:33 pm

limey jay

Bikermike ….Lennox was born in east London where he lived till he was
Twelve, before he went to live in your great country……..I have four boys at 15 yrs and under…..if I move to China, it don’t make em Chinese, they will always be English….you might wish he was Canadian,and the Jamaicans might wish he were Jamaican, but he ain’t he,s from London, which makes him British…….you can have Bute…….that’s a fair deal. :wink:

Posted August 6, 2012 2:00 pm

boxing barlow

Nah thats crap mate. Being british is a way of life. I can understand the Lewis is not British stuff as where he is ‘really’ from is clouded by the Canada thing. But guys like Haye are a part of British culture now.

Posted August 6, 2012 12:37 pm

boxing barlow

Agreed! Eubank was a good fighter but Calzaghe was really something special

Posted August 6, 2012 12:32 pm

Annon

“Minus Lewis”?? haha you mug!

Posted August 6, 2012 11:34 am

bikermike

Lennox Lewis is about as British as Ben Johnson is Canadian….
I was surprised that Sir ‘Enry wasn’t mentioned…and I agree Calzaghe should be there as well…….
but the fighters listed(minus Lewis) are worthy and noble warriors….absofknlutely

Posted August 6, 2012 10:38 am

Alan

Jimmy Wilde? Did anyone look at his record? After more than 80 fights he fought a guy with a 0-4 record. His whole record is padded with guys like this.

Posted August 6, 2012 9:33 am

Neil (pomy)

… Good fighter but not on Calzaghes level.

Posted August 6, 2012 9:26 am

Neil (pomy)

The best British fighter I have seen in the 25 years of following the sport ….. is Calzaghe (followed closely by Lennox Lewis)

Posted August 6, 2012 9:22 am

Tyson G

Calzaghe should be ranked no. 3 – crazy he is not even mentioned.

Posted August 6, 2012 9:21 am

Neil (pomy)

I cant agree with that. When Eubank fought Calzaghe, Calzaghe was green and had never been 12 rounds. Calzaghe beat the best of his division and was dominant. Eubank and Benn were satisfied with just fighting their domestic rivals and dodgey, sub-standard challengers ….. especially Eubank with the Dan Cherrys of this world. Both Benn and Eubank had great careers but were never interested in fighting the likes of Roy Jones and James Toney. I think the difference is that Calzaghe wanted to fight the very best …. Benn and Eubank were not so bothered.

Posted August 6, 2012 9:21 am

Curtley

Hatton is always underated by boxing fans and is a top ten brit but again if we look at facts he beat the great Tzsyu and only lost to the 2 best our generation. Before someone starts he never lost to Collazo (look at the score) and it was a close fight that was ultimately decided by the 1st round knock down.

Posted August 6, 2012 8:48 am

Curtley

Also Reid and Hopkins did not beat him did they even if you think they did? I had him winning clearly vs B-Hop (unless you think holding and running the second half of the fight does it) and also had him just squeaking past Reid. Before you accuse me of being a fan boy I was at the Reid vs Calzaghe fight and as an Englishman was rooting for Robin all the way, Reid hit Joe with some superb right hand counters but as was often the case he was not quite active enough to take the decision and Calzaghe not at his best did his usual thing of keeping going until the final bell.

Posted August 6, 2012 8:40 am

Curtley

Simon that is an opinion so can never be fact, the fact is that when they did fight Joe won and he was still green, in my opinion a prime Calzaghe (vs Lacy) would have beaten any Eubank but its only an opinion surely lists like this should be based on facts. The fact is Joe was an undefeated 2 weight world champion which trumps any British supermiddle including Eubank and Benn. I would also have Benn above Eubank but he did lose one and draw one against the Brighton man.

Posted August 6, 2012 8:37 am

Simon

P.S Eubank at his sharpest would’ve beaten Calzaghe inside the distance. The punches he let off against Benn (x2) and Watson (x2), Joe would not absorb and Chris would throw and land more right hands than ever against the wide open [to that punch] Calzaghe.

Posted August 6, 2012 8:30 am

Simon

Mix

:shock: :shock: Where’s Lord Audley :?: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Posted August 6, 2012 4:38 am

John

Half or more of Britain’s modern boxing champions are of Carribean descent.

In the eighties, Britain’s middleweight scene was in fact Jamaica’s middle championship.

Let’s not act as if Lennox, Benn, Eubank, Watson, Bruno, Mason, etc trully reflect the physical state of the UK.

They were all great champions, but still…

That’s like saying Cubans are American, if Cuba was part of the USA, like Puerto Rico does.

Posted August 6, 2012 4:23 am

Tim49

Nonsense. Calzaghe never fought the bets. What BS. Hopkins was 43 when they fought and despite still being relevent, fact is Hopkins was OLD AND PAST PRIME. Hopkins lost twice to Taylor and was just bested by Dawson, so quick high output fighters have bested Hopkins since hes turned 40. The Roy Jones fight was a Farse as Jones was so far gone as to not even be considered himself. There are two Jones, pre Ruiz and post Ruiz. Calzaghe fought a shell. calzaghe also cought Eubank at the end of his Career.

Comparing Calzaghe to older fighters who went to war on a monthly basis is not fair. He was a good south paw who was carefuly steered by Frank Warren and who only fought when he had a hometown advantage or when his opponent was on the downslide and no longer considered a major threat. Kessler is his only true impressive win but considering the way Kessler was destroyed by Ward and nearly (some say WAS) bested by Froch, im not so sure how good kessler is agaisnt top flight fighters either

Posted August 6, 2012 4:16 am

leedsnproud

Calzaghe was born in London. Doesn’t that make him British? :mrgreen:

Posted August 6, 2012 3:51 am

BLUESMAN

I agree.

Posted August 6, 2012 3:05 am

Anonymous

“Now that Welsh fighters…”?! This Welsh being British isn’t some recent bit gerrymandering. There is no reason or precedent for the Welsh not to be included. It’s a simple geographical fact. Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles; Wales, along with England and Scotland, occupies part of it. The British Isles with Northern Island make up the UK. In fact, the Welsh would probably argue that thanks to their Celtic heritage they are the most British residents of the UK.

Posted August 6, 2012 2:59 am

Swedish Boxing Fan

No Frank Bruno? Mabey not the greatest european fighter but he was a very loved champion from brittain and more loved then several names here on the list so he should have been included.

Posted August 6, 2012 2:50 am

Mix

Not too bad an article this. However it really needs to be broken into pre & post WW II or weight divisions. All the Joe C lovers are a bit dilusioned if they believe he deserves a place on this list. Post war yes. UK top 10 of all time, no chance.

Posted August 6, 2012 1:47 am

H

No Calzaghe? Excellent list!

Posted August 6, 2012 1:17 am

breadnbutter

What about Dave Charnley? Henry Cooper?

Posted August 6, 2012 12:59 am

Edgar Guevara

:razz:

Posted August 5, 2012 10:30 pm

arroyo bob

Terry Downs at #1. This is about excitement, right? Exaggeration about the weight difference between The 184 pound Corbett and Fitz at 167.

Posted August 5, 2012 8:59 pm

Nathan

Now that Welsh fighters are included to represent the UK (most likely because it would look bad to EXCLUDE them when they qualify and you are hosting the olympics) they are doing well. I’m surprised how many fighters from Wales do so well when you consider the tiny population and percentage of population in relation to the entire UK

Posted August 5, 2012 8:19 pm

Nathan

Before arguing the technicality of Wales/Britain and whether Wales fighters should be included remember the following:
Freddie Welsh was born in Wales. he fought his early fights in PA, and I imagine grew up there or nearby as many Welsh Americans settled there possibly due to the mining work similar to in Wales. (like my family’s historical background)
Jimmy Wilde of course also was Welsh.
Joe Calzaghe who beat numerous former and current at the time world champions included fighters who are STILL relevant contenders, who never lost since a kid, who earned the right to represent Wales(UK) in the olympics but was passed over because of British favoratism, weight class issues, who unified the titles, held them for over a decade, never dodged but still beat Hopkins, and Jones, as well as Ottke, and who beat the great Eubanks who is on this list for some reason is not. He MADE the super middle weight division, will be compared to Ward who Will probably reign over the next years and is clearly the best SUPER MIDDLE fighter since it’s inception from the last 80′s till at least his 2008 retirement somehow STILL isn’t on this list.
It isn’t because Wales as a country was excluded.
It’s also amazing how well Joe did with terrible hands his second half of his career. Other fighters still couldn’t take advantage of it. Another 5 years or so of better hands and he would have had 40 plus KO’s instead of 32 which still isnt’ a bad percentage 69.5% when you have something like 22 championship level fights.
I wonder why people still won’t give him his credit when it’s clear he beat the best opponents that were around untill Ward and nobody has a genuine argument that they COULD beat him. Makes you wonder if the authors requirements are that you dominate for 30 YEARS or more, or maybe you have to beat the writers on his list 2 times. Or maybe if you don’t beat them in their primes although they duck you like Hopkins or just are much older like Chris then you can’t get the credit.
I respect the older fighters that did so many great things. But you can’t include Joe as a guy who ducked anyone even if the fight game changed. 0 losses, and being the best, and fighting the best still Trumps classic era boxers who fought 60-150 times and lost 5-20 times.

Posted August 5, 2012 8:17 pm

juneau

Agree fully, Benn was explosive, and won by 2-3 rounds in the wasted rematch. Another robbery! Such a long list…

Posted August 5, 2012 8:16 pm

juneau

astro, the name you’re thinking of is Audley, who I actually do want to end his career positively. Lennox was the best since Holmes ffs and probably would’ve taken him out fairly comfortably.

Posted August 5, 2012 8:11 pm

juneau

Joe not being on the list is tragic, much like the new format of this site. All apologies, but I really am past struggling with it. Like the 2012 emblem, or my girlfriend telling me she’s a lesbian and I’m not invited to the party. Why ESB?

Posted August 5, 2012 8:07 pm

astro

Lennox was a joke.

Posted August 5, 2012 8:06 pm

Limey jay

Buchanan is on the list fella.

Posted August 5, 2012 7:45 pm

jinky

What about the great Ken Buchanan

Posted August 5, 2012 7:40 pm

Limey jay

Funny old list, no joe c..? …..benn went stateside and took on the dangerous dogs, while Chris fought the dan sherry,s at home in his slippers…..nah benn above Chris all day long , I know this author likes his old timers, but a top ten uk fighters, has to have, benn , calzaghe, hatton, Lewis in it .

Posted August 5, 2012 7:37 pm

The Pinoy Pikey

OK. The he belongs on that list. Before Turpin and Eubank.

Posted August 5, 2012 7:34 pm

Anonymous

Errr wrong.. Calzaghe is Welsh, Wales is a Principality within Great Britain, which politically, is part of “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island”….

Posted August 5, 2012 7:28 pm

HHLondon

Of course Calzaghe is British!

Posted August 5, 2012 7:23 pm

Harry

Britain includes Wales, look it up

Posted August 5, 2012 7:22 pm

Harry

No Calzaghe, how ridiculous !!

Posted August 5, 2012 7:21 pm

The Pinoy Pikey

Calzaghe is from the UK but not British…That certainly has to be the reason, as I thought the same thing.

Posted August 5, 2012 7:17 pm

HHLondon

I’d stick Benn in ahead of Eubank!

At least Benn had the balls to pack his bags, get on the road, beat fighters in their own back yard and tear their titles off them!

Weren’t DeWitt a P4P fighter when he beat him?

Posted August 5, 2012 7:16 pm

Kill

So wheres Nigel Benn??

Posted August 5, 2012 7:04 pm

piazza

lol @ calzaghe being left out. kinda removes any credibility from this writer…

and Im not from the Uk….

Posted August 5, 2012 6:15 pm

leedsnproud

No Calzaghe, but Eubank is in there? ESB shouldn’t allow this absurd crap as boxing ‘journalism.’.

Posted August 5, 2012 6:15 pm

The Kingslayer

Eubank shouldn’t be in the top ten.

Posted August 5, 2012 6:10 pm

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Top Ten British Fighters of All Time