“Fighting in the pocket ” does not mean what Teddy is saying. Boxers must utillize” The six foot circle ” ,both from the inside and outside to execute without getting hit.To do this one must make the other commit ,or in old terms ,”ask a question” either with his movement feint. That specific punch or motion should be fundamental or a varriation of that particular punch or motion to get in position to execute .EXAMPLE; Floyd Mayweather in the corner against Oscar Delahoya ,rolling punches with his shoulders,while bending his legs up and down ,making Oscar miss.Or Evander Holyfield pursueing mike Tyson on the ropes with his head moving back and fourth(laterally) in a long rythem ,hoping Tyson (in a short rythemn)would attempt to butt him.Inside that six foot circle is where the “sweet science”of boxing was created,both inside out and outside in.But never “in the pocket “. Fighting from ones feet up is fundamental and fighting around and through “the power zone” should keep a great fighter out of “the pocket” except when punching……….God bless…kenny weldonPosted October 4, 2012 3:47 pm
The term “Fighting in the pocket” as well as its reality, will get a boxer beat up real bad.If you drew a circle 3 foot wide on the floor,that would be your opponent .Then draw a six foot circle around that .The area between those two circles is called a boxers “power zone”,or in this case, “the pocket” as Teddy Atlas calls it. Unless you are Sugar Ray Robinson or Willy Pep ,or just great at positioning ,I would not suggest it . A good place to be “in the pocket”is against a guy with O fights and blind in one eye……………God bless….kenny weldon……Its great for the fans,but bad on the boxers face and memories. He may not remember he was a fighter once he reaches 50 years of age.Posted October 4, 2012 11:31 am
I would put Kelly in several more fights before I’d go for a title shot, just to clean up and ramp up his game. If it were a matter of Jermain Taylor I’d say go for a title shot right now … But this division is loaded with tough fighters.Posted October 4, 2012 12:23 am
hang in ther a couple more years, edwin. kelly’s in the mix for a major title shot now, you’re not. lesser guys are more within your range: dirrell, allan green, miranda, bika…Posted October 3, 2012 8:35 pm
It seems like every time I hit this site it has changed. Pick a format ESB… I’m easily confused!Posted October 3, 2012 4:35 pm
It’s semantics… I say “green” you say “He did not have the skills he needed to beat a more experienced fighter” ..If you have fewer than 20 fights, and in addition to that you objectively lack the skill and experience to matchup well with a more skilled and more experienced opponent, it’s more than a matter of incompetent trainers. I say you’re to green for that matchup.Posted October 3, 2012 12:17 pm
Tark, I don’t think “green” is the right word to use for Escalera. He lost the fight because he was over-rated and because his trainer over-estimated his fighter. His trainer also under-estimated Escalera’s skills. His fight with Rodriguez was set up because it was thought that Escalera had such great power and great KO record, that he would be a viable match for Rodriguez. In fact, both Escalera’s promoter and trainer felt that Escalera had a very good chance of beating Rodriquez. Prior to fighting Rodriguez, Escalera had canned 12 out of 13 opponents, plus he’s a damn good boxer considering his lack of amateur or professional experience. BTW, what I saw was not a “green” fighter, I saw a poorly prepared fighter. He did not have the skills he needed to beat a more experienced fighter. But not because he was “green.” It was because his trainer fell down on the job.Posted October 3, 2012 11:32 am
I would be more happy with an abraham fight and would expect Rodriguez to beat the hell out of himPosted October 3, 2012 10:50 am
KP has only lost to great boxers. I don’t think Rodriguez is slick enough to beat KP. It would be a hell of a fight though and I really don’t car who would win as long as it is exciting.Posted October 3, 2012 10:46 am
Would be very interesting to see. I see it being a very good throw down. Pavlik is a very good 1-2 (inside the box) stalker who has the same weakness as any other 1-2 stalker and that is foot speed against fighters who like fighting on the move. Against fighters who do not use their feet to lure pavlik in, I think pavlik is very tough. Rodriguez hasn’t had to use his feet hardly because the leaning torso movement and effective all angle countering have been enough to dominate. I don’t know how good his feet are. He is a big guy though so all of this I’m saying might be off from the start and he might just be too much for pavlik. Still hope it get’s made.Posted October 3, 2012 10:46 am
Rodriguez isn’t green.. Don’t go by the number of fights he’s had. He has good all around skills and improving with each fight. Escalera is green and wasn’t ready for ER. If you have a fair chance of being stopped it’s not a fight you want unless you make ridiculous money. 168 is a talent rich, so you survey the landscape better and polish your skills longer before you take on the top guys. Pavlik is one of those fighters, like Khan and Hatton, who needs to refine his skills more because his division is loaded. That’s a good thing. A hot division makes things more interesting for everybody.Posted October 2, 2012 11:26 pm
he said pavlik is improving under garcia? How? he has looked slower, more off balance, and not as strong. prove me wrong please! plus Garcia’s fighters all come in over weight and are unprofessional. To be a great trainer your fighter has to be discplined and on weight that is your job as a trainer. Nonito has looked terrible and Bam Bam is getting beat. Pavlik is a drunk who will never improve. If someone wants to argue please tell me was Sigmon or rosinski better then 30-1 gary lockett ranked 3 in the world at the time? not at all and Kelly destoyed Lockett under Jack Lowe’s training so how does Garcia get this credit for Sigmon or Rosinski? hahah people are so dumb…Posted October 2, 2012 10:28 pm
this writer is no expert…Posted October 2, 2012 10:23 pm
Somebody said Rodriguez is green.. Don’t go by the number of fights and say a kid is green. Rodriguez has good all around skills that are improving with each fight. Escalera is green and shouldn’t have been in there. If you have a good chance of being stopped it’s not a fight you want unless you’re making ridiculous money. 168 is a talent rich division so you survey the landscape a little more, and polish your skills a little longer before you take on the top guys. Pavlik is one of those guys, like Khan and Hatton, who needs to refine his skills more because his division is loaded right now. That’s a good thing. A hot division makes things more interesting for everybody.Posted October 2, 2012 10:21 pm
NO idea why I got banned as I did nothing wrong. The only thing I can guess is it happened after I criticized a bunch of press releases that were unvetted by editorial and posted as-is. I called ESB a glorified press release service and then suddenly my comments wouldn’t post anymore. Did that warrant a ban? NO. If ESB bans people for offering constructive criticism it undermines their credibility as a place to discuss boxing and coverage of the sport. So we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m out.Posted October 2, 2012 10:14 pm
Excuse me, I meant that talks are underway for Abraham’s WBO belt.Posted October 2, 2012 10:00 pm
Just had dinner with Rodriquez’s manager Larry Army. F*** Pavlik, you heard it here first…talks are underway for a December fight in Germany for Arthur Abraham’s WBA belt. Be there!.Posted October 2, 2012 9:43 pm
This is such an interesting match-up. On one hand, Pavlik who is much more experienced and, as of late, has shown more abilities. On the other you have a really, big, young kid who’s full of confidence, has fast hands and has a well-stocked arsenal. Another X factor is Pavlik’s strength — while he’s a monster at 160, would he be as devastating against a guy who could come into the ring the size of a cruiserweight? I think Kelly could get it done, but it sure would NOT be easy. I say flip a coin to decide who wins this one.Posted October 2, 2012 9:40 pm
Joseph h. This article obviously generated a lot of buzz. How about a follow up polling numerous trainers not just one. This fight will happen if the fans and press push the issue. For the record, why doesn’t anyone acknowledge Rodriguez for stepping up and trying to land a big fight. Isn’t that what he is supposed to do? Challenge himself. Why do people slam the athletes on this sport. Its good to see a young Buck toe the line and try to make a meaningful fight. I for one think this is a fight of the year candidate and if both look good they can both gain on the experience.Posted October 2, 2012 9:16 pm
Pavlik was school’d by Hopkins years ago and even though he’s got some wins behind him he , in no way, is NOT the Pavlik of oldt. This fight will be hs last hoorah and it will end horribly for him. He’s powerful but can’t fight well with someone who has mobility,
I bet La Bomba won’t try to bum rush Pavlik like he did Escalera last week.Posted October 2, 2012 6:47 pm
This guy Edwin looks good in short spurts, also may not be a good idea to put him against Pavlik since Pavlik does great work from the outside and Rodriguez cannot fight from the inside. This kid is still very green.Posted October 2, 2012 5:40 pm
This guy throws wide punches and has beaten noone, Pavlik will throw straight down the pipe and is a LEGIT ko puncher. Froch called Pavlik out and now won’t mention his name when scheduleing his next match. Edwin wont fight him either, sounds good calling out the ko artist but management will stop it. And as far as KP supposed ducking of PW…….. Noway…..his hand had MRSA. PW would have been stopped.Posted October 2, 2012 5:33 pm
Very well stated, Destruction. You’re right on point with pretty much everything you wrote except with the Edwin Rodriguez being green as the Irish countryside (nice one, man).
Edwin has a deep amateur pedigree and has been nurtured with the right type of opponents to prepare him for a big fight with Kelly Pavlik. 2 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But not anymore.
His last three fights have prepared Edwin well for this moment. Ronnie Shields has done an amazing job instilling confidence and a greater sense of knowing when to let his hands go and when to use the entire ring.
Edwin is becoming a complete fighter and will be the toughest test Kelly could take outside of the major title holders at 168 pounds.
I would love to see the eventual winner fight Carl Froch sometme next year.Posted October 2, 2012 5:19 pm
well,it’s pretty much down the middle as far as the opinions from the fans.barring the obvious attention seekers,haters, and drunks.i think kelly should be licking his chops on this one.i know up in oxnard,they are trying to get that “big fight”,but this would be perfect at this time for kelly.he can fight on hbo,get more exposer,and fight a guy who has a name and recognition,and school a kid as green as the irish countryside,and secure a big fight.if kelly is indeed “offended”,then it should motivate him to train properly and have the chance to prove the doubters.when pavlik is motivated,he is a dangerous fighter.i like kelly,but he must remember that he screwed up and put himself in this position with the drink,and then pulling out of a fight last minute.sometimes you have to be greatful for the opportunities that present themselves,and this one is a golden opportunity.i hope he realizes this and humbles himself,and takes this fight running.pavlik by late stoppage.Posted October 2, 2012 4:53 pm
Scott, please let Edwin know that we can’t wait to feature him on the show once again, and to make the most of his time between fights.
He looked great on Saturday night!!Posted October 2, 2012 3:02 pm
I spoke with Edwin’s trainer Ronnie Shields after Saturday’s fight. He felt Edwin executed the given fight plan perfectly…and is now ready for a big, step-up fight.
I’m having dinner with Edwin tonight, and will share these many comments with him….many good thoughts about both men.
I agree Pavlik probably won’t take this fight, it’s too big a risk for the money HBO is likely to want to put up. But I’d love to see it.Posted October 2, 2012 2:50 pm
good fightPosted October 2, 2012 2:09 pm
This would be an extremely rough physical fight and Rodriguez would try to stop Pavlik, which would not be out of his reach.. It would be a FOTY candidate—but if you’re on the losing end of one of those it may not be a good thing. The part I agree with in Gogue’s analysis is that Rodriguez has the advantage in this matchup. The way Pavlik was driving hard to get to the top several years ago is the way Rodriguez is right now. You have to have that fire and drive that Pavlik lost when he decided to enjoy the fruits of his labor, party down, get drunk, get laid, whatever. He’s not the old Pavlik yet and he doesn’t want to derail his nice comeback with another loss … More than anything Pavlik needs the right fights and a lot more coaching. He also needs time … Remember, he never had a great technical coach before.Posted October 2, 2012 1:56 pm
Teacher, if you don’t recognize James Gogue’s talents from just reading his analysis and his strategic breakdown of this match-up, then this article is not for you and you probably don’t understand what he’s saying.
Because it’s pretty obvious to anyone who knows boxing, that James is a brilliant strategist. Just listen to “The Pugilist KOrner’s: Weekend Wrap” on Sunday night. His segment is just after Ronnie Shields’ slot on the show.
His final 30 minutes is absolutely brilliant every single week.
Just to appease your curiousity, he helped cultivate Diego Corrales in Sacramento at the amateur level with Diego’s dad. Too many to go into, but he takes a lot of pride in working with young fighters and teaching the fundamentals because most boxing coaches today don’t have the patience or talent to teach at the ground level and cultivate fundamentals from nothing.
Very few trainers can do what he does. That includes explaining the craft the way he does…just listen to his breakdown every Sunday…it’s brilliant.Posted October 2, 2012 1:23 pm
I want to see Pavlik fight guys like George Groves, Adonis Stevenson, and Peter Quilin first.. There’s no rush when it comes to mastering fundamental skills.. I want to see Edwin Rodriguez vs Andre Dirrell.Posted October 2, 2012 1:15 pm
Rodriguez would lose to Pavlik + not enough money for Pavlik to take the fight.Posted October 2, 2012 1:04 pm
Who is this so called expert, never heard of him coaching any one significant fighter, how and on what is he an EXPERT.Posted October 2, 2012 12:59 pm
i think Pavliks people are smart enough to stay away from Rodriguez. The kid is still raw but he does have a lot of power and apparently a very good chin. This fight, however, is a FOY candidate and i hope HBO throws some big money at it so it can be made. I think Pavlik wins by TKO or rodriguez by decision if he can avoid a bog shotPosted October 2, 2012 12:40 pm
Pavlik is finished as a top fighter, Hopkins finished his career, he could be british, he is full of excuses after dropping out of matches, he even ran from jr.middle williams.Posted October 2, 2012 12:29 pm
Pavlik is not Jason Escalera and Rodriguez got hit a lot by Escalera. If he fights this same way against Pavlik, he may get KO. Rodriguez needs to work on defense or his fame may be short live.Posted October 2, 2012 12:17 pm
Fight of the year….good onePosted October 2, 2012 11:56 am
kelly aint as good 168 like he was at 160 his power aint there at 168 but he still good enough to compete with some fighters at 168 except for ward the kelly and edwin fight can go either way both fighters is hittable not to much defense that will make for a entertaining fight tho kelly is more experince fought the better fighters then edwin have but edwin is a big 168 with some solid power and solid skills but i proably favor kelly to win thoPosted October 2, 2012 11:40 am
This is not a fight I’d recommend for Pavlik right now… He needs to get his game back on track a little stronger and ramp up his skills. Be more active before he takes a fight like this or he’ll be badly out-boxed. Pavlik is potentially a great boxer but at the moment he’s not. I’d like to see Rodriguez against Andre Dirrell. AD has all the physical skills but he needs a challenge like this to get excited and interested. AD seems to be lolling around in depression like Pavlik. A fight like this would pump Andre up like the Bute fight pumped up Froch … There’s not much excitement when everyone thinks you’re going to kill the guy you’re fighting. Everyone knows who’s going to win so there’s no drama. You need that tough opponent to generate electricity and excitement in your whole team. Rodriquez and Dirrell would do that for each other. Rodriquez would generate excitement in the Pavlik camp but KP’s been fighting inept boxers since the Martinez fight. Rodriquez is not only bigger, taller, tougher, fresher, and much stronger than Martinez … he’s a hell of a boxer as well. He’s not massively accomplished, and that’s why it’s so easy to underrate his skills.Posted October 2, 2012 11:12 am
Pavlik would beat the breaks off this wide swinging kid…No defense is not a good thing to have against KP… Pavlik all day long!Posted October 2, 2012 10:45 am
Boo, what makes you say that? Please retort with intelligence to support your scoff.Posted October 2, 2012 9:25 am
Can’t believe Rodriguez is getting credit for beating his greatly over matched opponent in that last fight.Posted October 2, 2012 9:21 am
I couldn’t get past “potential fight of the year!” I was laughing WAY to hard!!! This would be a 4 or 5 round beating, and possibly the end of Rodriquez as a viable contender. Get Real dude!Posted October 2, 2012 9:14 am
Good observation, DT. It broke big Lou’s heart when Jermain was knocked out in Germany. Lou is very passionate about his stable and is always willing to go to war for his guys.
I know he would love to get his payback through a specimen like Edwin.
That sounds like a great article, DT…thank you!!Posted October 2, 2012 8:35 am
Edwin aka La Bomba comes in pulling a Chavez Chicken Jr. Weighing 20+lbs more then his prior day weighin.. He fights a green kid with 16 Pro fights who still works at a local Supermarket and trains a few hours a night.. and even with all his Flashy movements and showboating gets tagged quite often.. and because he beats this Green Novice kid he’s now REady for top tier Fighters?? We’ll see how he does when he fights guys his true size and weight because when he has fought guys closer to his actual size and weight he’s looked very average…. He needs to take on Cruiserweights like Palacios or WZlorick… Miranda, Abraham, Ward… Froche, once he takes on those guys then we can talk about how great he really is.. and don’t get me wrong.. I like Edwin and feel bad for him his wife and what they went through with their Kids… Hope he does well but he needs to step up and take on guys his size and experience level and with him calling out Pavlik at least he’s making a move in that direction…Posted October 2, 2012 7:11 am
All this talk about Pavlik vs. Rodriguez is all for naught. There’s no way Pavlik is taking this fight. He would have nothing to win and everything to lose. Due to his name and modest 3 fight win streak, top super middleweights like Ward and Froch already want to fight KP. Why challenge a young, hungry lion for less money at this stage of your career? Not happening folks, not happening.Posted October 2, 2012 6:22 am
Edwin has the speed and athleticism to be a hand full for Kel though i doubt his ring IQ is any greater i can see pavlik breaking rodriguez down and stopping him not before Kel sends him to the canvas …Posted October 2, 2012 4:26 am
La Bomba would pick Pavlik apart and bust him up.Posted October 2, 2012 3:50 am
But in response to your statement, DT…I think you’re absolutely right. With Kelly’s power and his much improved ability to cut off the ring effectively under Robert Garcia’s tutelage. I like Kelly’s chances in this fight.
But, Edwin is super athletic and coming into this fight super confident.
This is a great fight that is very intriguing. Very hard to call and could easily go either way.
I love it!!Posted October 2, 2012 3:49 am
How’s it going, DT…if this fight happens, I’m going to give full credit to “The Latin Snake” Sergio Mora for matchmaking.
When both Edwin and Sergio were on “The Pugilist KOrner three weeks ago, Sergio was telling Edwin that Kelly would be the perfect opponent for “la Bomba” at this time. And because Bob Arum currently has a very good working relationship with Lou DiBella, Chavez Jr vs. Maravilla, the time is right to make it happen.
I guess Edwin’s handlers agreed and Edwin called him out on the air.
I think the probability of this fight happening is very high. Kelly has turned into somewhat of an avoided fighter at 168. He’s considered to be too much risk for the reward among the top fighters of the Super Middleweight division.
So more than likely, I can see this fight ending up at Cowboys Stadium in the co-main event of Chavez Jr. vs. Sergio Martinez II in February 2013.Posted October 2, 2012 3:43 am
It all depends how pavlik is prepared for the fight , let me make it clear something about pavlik , if pavlik is in good condition he can beat most of 168 pounders including froch ANd that’s a fight I Wang to see froch vs pavlik and not pavlik vs still unproven RodriguezPosted October 2, 2012 2:31 am
Steve Smoger kissed Escalera. I kinda wished Smoger would also kiss me he’s kinda handsome :)Posted October 2, 2012 2:18 am
meant EscaleraPosted October 2, 2012 1:14 am
I would favor Pavlik based on the ability of a rather crude Escalante to hit Rodriguez flush shots. Good fight though.Posted October 2, 2012 1:12 am
Good fight make it happen.Posted October 2, 2012 12:53 am
Its Me, Ernie
Agree fellas, Pavlik will be too much for the kid at this point, especially after training in Oxnard as he has.Posted October 1, 2012 11:48 pm
I just think Kelly doesnt get the credit he is deserved….if his career ends now he can hold his head up high. People forget quickly…that is the reality. He if does fight Edwin, he will win. Go get em Kelly, you already ruled once…the second time should be easier.Posted October 1, 2012 10:52 pm
Come on!!! Give the ghost a big name….he has earned it!! No offense Edwin….its not your time…its Kellys!!Posted October 1, 2012 10:17 pm
Or was it 9 of 10 rounds?? Either way….you see what im trying too say. kelly wants a big fight, not another fighter trying too make his name off Pavlik…hes done 3 of them this year. Give Kelly what he wants…a big name fighter…hes earned it….peace n love…peace n love….Posted October 1, 2012 10:14 pm
No offense too Edwin but, whats in it for Pavlik?? I think Edwin got lucky in his decision against Rosinsky…alot of folks had Will winning that fight. Kelly won 11 of 12 rounds against Will…Kelly wants a big fight…not another fight against a no name trying too make a name for his self. If it does happen…Pavllik wins 10 of the 12 rounds…maybe ko<s him. Theres the truth(reality)…deal with it.Posted October 1, 2012 9:53 pm
I agree with hidalgo. Not to mention it takes away from the fight if it ever happenedPosted October 1, 2012 9:09 pm
I don’t recall reading it in Gogue’s analysis but one main Pavlik component that Rodriguez would have to be concerned with, is Kelly’s ability to take a punch and the fact that Kelly always moves forward. Kelly is a pressure fighter. He is a very intimidating opponent because of his power and constant forward movement. In any case, I was impressed with Rodriguez’s overwhelming domination of Escalera. Many boxing fans, some writers and analysts believe Escalera had no business being in the ring with Rodriguez. I believe that what we saw was not a gross mismatch, but a display of just how much better than Escalera Rodriguez really was. He dominated Escalera because he was that much better, not because it was a ridiculous mismatch. Escalera and his team underestimated Rodriguez. I didn’t and Rodriguez won just as I expected he would and in the manner I expected he would.Posted October 1, 2012 8:45 pm
“…it would be an easy fight to make because all Kelly Pavlik would want is enough money to buy beer for the rest of the year and he would sign the contract.” That is an unnecessary and unwarranted slur and insult against Kelly Pavik. Kelly is a former world champion who has defeated some of the best boxers in the world. At one time, he was one of the most dangerous foes anyone in his weight division could face. Kelly has worked hard to make a comeback. You’d realize that if you knew anything about boxing. Or Kelly Pavlik.Posted October 1, 2012 8:40 pm
whiteman n dnial ali was truly the greatest
pavlok is still fightingPosted October 1, 2012 8:35 pm
Would love to see this fight between a former great champ and a younger hungry contender. This is the kind of fight i would fly to vegas to see! I hope arum and dibella can make it happen!Posted October 1, 2012 8:06 pm
I`ll take Rodriguez in this matchup. He is more versatile than Pavlik and less one-dimensional. This would not be a difficult fight to make. In fact, it would be an easy fight to make because all Kelly Pavlik would want is enough money to buy beer for the rest of the year and he would sign the contract.Posted October 1, 2012 7:58 pm