“You need a brain scan with a pistol. ASAP.”
LMAO! Haven’t heard that one before. I like it!Posted March 12, 2014 8:51 pm
I think I learned that Canelo can hit harder than I thought.Posted March 12, 2014 2:52 pm
“Angulo didn’t look too bad at the weighin…”
Angulo looked like crap at the weigh-in Tark. He was moving like a turtle and clearly displayed that he had little energy, while Canelo was smiling, laughing it up, and generally looking and acting much stronger than Alfredo.Posted March 12, 2014 2:10 pm
Angulo didn’t look too bad at the weighin… Canelo didn’t look too bad… They both looked a little peaked from dehydrating but that’s pretty normal when you dry out that much… One didn’t look worse than the other… Angulo could have made 154 if Canelo could. He was on weight according to Hunter.
They both looked slightly drained from dehydration. That’s pretty normal when you consider how much they dehydrated. Canelo didn’t look nearly as bad as he did for Floyd. I thought he looked terrible for the Floyd weighin.
Canelo busted his ass but couldn’t make 154. He let the Angulo camp know, “I can’t do it. I tried everything and I can’t make the weight. Give me a pound. I’ll pay you the 100,000 dollars that is in our agreement if we raise the limit to 155.” … That was the smart thing to do.Posted March 12, 2014 11:35 am
Angulo wasn’t healthy period nevertheless nice to see Canelo finally working his way up the jmw ranks. You still have Vanes the dude who just beat Vanes I think his name was Aldridge the Charlos, Molina and the #1 jmw in the world Lara. Nice to see Canelos division is rich good fights ahead of us if GB is willing to put Canelo in them.Posted March 12, 2014 10:55 am
@ the author of this article.
If you keep referring to boxing as the “sweet science” you’ll be out of a job soon.
This hit and not get hit mentality is whats been killing the sport of boxing.
Professional boxing is “Prize Fighting”. The masses want to see specatacular victories in the ring that place life full of trial and error in a microcosm of a 12 round fight. People want fighters to take risks at the spectacular not side with extreme conservative tactics.Posted March 12, 2014 10:27 am
“Obviously canelo didnt risk it this time around …Now did he ………..”
Tell you what, hookoffthe jab, you seem to be irritated for some reason so I’ll make this easy for you:
You are 100% right.. Alfredo over-trained.
Next topic please.Posted March 12, 2014 10:07 am
If you leave to little time……To lose …to much weight which is what happens more times than not ……..You end up with no strength speed etc ….Obviously canelo didnt risk it this time around …Now did he ………..Posted March 12, 2014 3:43 am
A number of well-known welterweights may weigh in at 147 or less but they enter the ring at close to 160 lbs. Do you think these guys weren’t already implementing weight loss from the first day of camp?< I ve seen this method backfire more times than succeed……The fighter needs huge discipline to do this otherwise ……They will fuark up ….Like El Perro might have …..Posted March 12, 2014 2:43 am
To dry ……Posted March 12, 2014 2:41 am
“Making weight should slowly be implemented from the day you enter camp ”
And so it is. But like I said, there’s still an awful lot of fighters who only trim down so much before weigh-in, then blast off the rest in a relatively short period of time before the actual weigh-in. Why do you think guys like Alvarez, Angulo, Chavez Jr., Danny Garcia, Mikey Garcia, and others gain so much weight after rehydrating? Cotto weighed in at 154 for his fight with Floyd but stepped into the ring at 165 or 168 (I believe Floyd said Cotto weighed 168. Canelo made weight for his fight with Trout but stepped into the ring weighing over 170. A number of well-known welterweights may weigh in at 147 or less but they enter the ring at close to 160 lbs. Do you think these guys weren’t already implementing weight loss from the first day of camp?
Did you see me condemning this sort of behavior ……………………And say it was best thing for anyone let alone a fighter?…..Were we discussing this thread or ever fuarking thread on Esb ………..You mentioned why (?) El Perro looked so lethargic fighting canelo ……I pointed out the obvious reason as to WHY ………Chavez Jr GTFO with that … People who use illegal methods …….. To gain and advantage should be hung up ……………………Posted March 12, 2014 2:40 am
i cant agree on him beating matheese, anyone who though salido landed all these low blows against lomochencko and some how didnt see garcia land equal or more on mytheese is out there rabbit a** mind.Posted March 12, 2014 2:31 am
It’s Me, Ernie
Swift is a good kid, but just not in Floyd’s league. Money would outclass and humiliate him, easy work…Posted March 12, 2014 1:46 am
Danny Garcia never said he wouldn’t fight Floyd. He’d fight him in a heartbeat… Danny floored Matthysse and whipped him… He put hyped up potential Foyd opponent Khan down 3x before stopping him in less than 4 rounds… He destroyed ATG Erik Morales when Erik was on PEDs.
Danny can get that left hook on anybody.. including Floyd.. He’s got a damned good right hander too.Posted March 12, 2014 1:34 am
I never had to make weight in my life.
But I can’t imagine going from 240 to 220 for a weigh-in — and then entering the ring at a strong and tight 240 and going 12 hard rounds…
That blows me away… I could never do that.
These guys are 70 or 80 pounds lighter and doing a phenomenal amount of rehydrating for their size.Posted March 12, 2014 1:22 am
“The only thing that showed up to fight last Saturday night was Angulos will. His body was dead on arrival.”-Which means that Lara was more impressive just as I predicted! !!!!! I am the GREATEST Fight Prophet ever born! !!!!!Posted March 12, 2014 12:37 am
“Making weight should slowly be implemented from the day you enter camp ”
And so it is. But like I said, there’s still an awful lot of fighters who only trim down so much before weigh-in, then blast off the rest in a relatively short period of time before the actual weigh-in. Why do you think guys like Alvarez, Angulo, Chavez Jr., Danny Garcia, Mikey Garcia, and others gain so much weight after rehydrating? Cotto weighed in at 154 for his fight with Floyd but stepped into the ring at 165 or 168 (I believe Floyd said Cotto weighed 168. Canelo made weight for his fight with Trout but stepped into the ring weighing over 170. A number of well-known welterweights may weigh in at 147 or less but they enter the ring at close to 160 lbs. Do you think these guys weren’t already implementing weight loss from the first day of camp?Posted March 12, 2014 12:33 am
“so why are you repeating what i said ..kind of …..”
Because you’re trying to use rhetoric that’s basically saying the same thing I already said.Posted March 12, 2014 12:26 am
Cheatin Chihuahuas De Messyhoe….. 800K is more money than u will ever seen in your full and miserable life man, why are you bragging for the money that Mayweather, Pacquiao and Cotto make??, brag for the money that you make….. You prove everytime that u are nothing but a lowlife moron….. you would be the messyhoe of Canelo for 10K altought nobody would give a dime for ur stinky azzPosted March 12, 2014 12:02 am
Danny Garcia said he would defnitely take a Floyd fight… He was certainly more deserving than Amir Khan whon Danyy stopped inside 4 rounds after flooring Amir 3 times.
And he’s certainly more deserving than Marcos Maidana who LOST to Amir Khan.
Matthysse was also thought to be a logical opponent for Floyd… since Matthysse ran over Floyd’s sparring partner Lamont Peterson in only 3 rounds … decking him 3 times.
Lamont was the boy who busted up Floyd’s ribs… causing a 2 month postponement of Floyd’s fight with Marquez.
So, as you can see, Undefeated World Champion, Danny Garcia, 28-0, is right there with the top prospective Floyd challengers.Posted March 11, 2014 11:56 pm
making weight is pretty much the final phase of training before a fight.< This yes the OLD ways die hard …. Making weight should slowly be implemented from the day you enter camp ……………………………Stupidly its not something that is practiced on a wide scale ……..Posted March 11, 2014 9:32 pm
safely negating ….Any negative effects and stress on the CNS ……………………………………..Posted March 11, 2014 9:25 pm
Call it what you like: overtraining, dehydration, whatever. Bottom line is Angulo’s body did not recover from the rigors of making weight. Angulo’s body just can’t safely make 154 any longer.
If science common sense and experience are combined …El Perro would be able to make weight canelo as well …..Posted March 11, 2014 9:16 pm
so why are you repeating what i said ..kind of …..Posted March 11, 2014 9:15 pm
“THIS its called over training which can be quiet a common occurrence”
Hookoffthejab, making weight is pretty much the final phase of training before a fight. Most fighter’s lose weight throughout their training regimen for a fight but a lot of them still have to lose a significant amount in a short period of time before fight night. Call it what you like: overtraining, dehydration, whatever. Bottom line is Angulo’s body did not recover from the rigors of making weight. Angulo’s body just can’t safely make 154 any longer.Posted March 11, 2014 9:12 pm
“In fact, from now on I think I’ll just read what you have to say about things. It’ll save unnecessary wear and tear on my brain tissue.
Thanks for educating me man!”
LMAO! Now you’re wising up. Really though, I’m vehement about it because I know I’m right. Go back and watch Angulo’s fight with Lara, or Silva, or Casarez, or even Kirkland who KOd him. The only thing that showed up to fight last Saturday night was Angulos will. His body was dead on arrival.Posted March 11, 2014 8:57 pm
El Perro …….Posted March 11, 2014 6:44 pm
But yes, if a fighter is too weak to fight, he is sick. What else would you call it? Furthermore, Gogue saw a lot more than we did at the weigh-in. What about what wasn’t on camera? What about what didn’t happen on the stage? What did you expect Hunter to do? How did you expect him to act? It’s a friggin’ weigh-in on national television for a big fight.<< THIS its called over training which can be quiet a common occurrence.. For those that do not keep LOGS ……Written transcripts of past experience to understand the stresses applied during training ………Boxing is a strength sport that involves ALL three energy systems (
Anaerobic system – Predominates in supplying energy for exercises lasting less than 2 minutes. Also known as the Glycolytic System. An example of an activity of the intensity and duration that this system works under would be a 400 m sprint.
Aerobic system – This is the long duration energy system. By 5 minutes of exercise the O2 system is clearly the dominant system. In a 1 km run, this system is already providing approximately half the energy; in a marathon run it provides 98% or more.)
Okay Hidalg0, I admit it: you were right about Angulo. I was wrong. I’m happy with that. I’m always keen to learn.
As for me being “hot on Canelo” and wanting to boost him as much as I can, I’ve actually never written a word about Canelo before today. But hey, I guess you’re right about that too.
In fact, from now on I think I’ll just read what you have to say about things. It’ll save unnecessary wear and tear on my brain tissue.
Thanks for educating me man!Posted March 11, 2014 6:32 pm
“I suggest you watch the footage yourself (there’s plenty of it, including lots of close-ups, and an interview with Angulo). When watching, ask yourself: does it look like Angulo was so weak he could hardly walk? Does Hunter look concerned about Angulo, or in a rush to usher him off the stage to start the rehydration process? Does Angulo even drink much immediately after the weigh in? Do the commentators suggest that Angulo looks weak and dangerously dehydrated? Do the interviewers seem alarmed at the way he looks, or mention it after the interview when talking to the camera? ”
Martin, anybody who doesn’t know a darn thing about boxing but has good eyesight could see that Angulo had no energy for the fight. There was absolutely no zip on his punches. The man was whacked.
But yes, if a fighter is too weak to fight, he is sick. What else would you call it? Furthermore, Gogue saw a lot more than we did at the weigh-in. What about what wasn’t on camera? What about what didn’t happen on the stage? What did you expect Hunter to do? How did you expect him to act? It’s a friggin’ weigh-in on national television for a big fight.
I understand you are hot on Canelo and want to boost him as much as you can but the fact is, he faced an opponent who was physically sapped. Argue all you want. You’re wrong.
BTW, why in the world would James Gogue lie or greatly exaggerate about what he saw? Answer: He wouldn’t.Posted March 11, 2014 6:06 pm
You may take Gogue’s retrospective impressions of the weigh-in as nothing but a statement of unadulterated fact, but having compared what he says to the actual footage just now, it seems to me that much of what he says is greatly exaggerated. I am not accusing him of lying, it’s just the way people’s memory works: though it seems thoroughly reliable to us, it is in fact shot through with retrospective rationalisation and confabulation.
I suggest you watch the footage yourself (there’s plenty of it, including lots of close-ups, and an interview with Angulo). When watching, ask yourself: does it look like Angulo was so weak he could hardly walk? Does Hunter look concerned about Angulo, or in a rush to usher him off the stage to start the rehydration process? Does Angulo even drink much immediately after the weigh in? Do the commentators suggest that Angulo looks weak and dangerously dehydrated? Do the interviewers seem alarmed at the way he looks, or mention it after the interview when talking to the camera?
I think that if you watch this footage you will conclude, as I have done, that Gogue’s account must have been coloured by considerable hindsight bias. Sure Angulo was dehydrated, just as was Canelo. That’s what most boxers have to do to make weight. But did he look “very, very sick and weak”? Certainly not to me. Moreover, he actually came in *over* the weight limit, since Canelo had announced he could not make weight, so I would expect him to be somewhat *less* dehydrated for this fight than usual.
You may say that the camera doesn’t reveal how Angulo “really looked” at the time, despite all the close-ups (and I doubt that Gogue was *that* close to Angulo). But apart from that being a little far fetched, if it was so obvious that Angulo was “very very sick and weak” at the time, why did nobody say anything to this effect until *after* the fight?
This happens all the time. Just look at all the posters here now saying that they “knew all along” that Angulo was “shot” and that it would be a cakewalk for Canelo. But were they saying all that *before* the fight?Posted March 11, 2014 5:13 pm
Angulo is past his prime but still too much for anyone not in the top echelon or not in top conditionPosted March 11, 2014 3:58 pm
Difference with Kirkland is he will bring it till he is done. Not saying Angulo doesn’t but I don’t think Kirkland has issues making weight.Posted March 11, 2014 3:51 pm
I read he threw up after the weigh in from Doug Fishers mail box on the ring magazine sitePosted March 11, 2014 3:49 pm
people who bash old time fighters have no idea how different it was in those days, sure a few ducked certain fighters but fought most all top contenders eventually, and fought very often, so many had off nights, plus most all fighters were very capable boxers with stamina, heart and discipline. FMJ is similar to these old timers in dedication and discipline, but his style is not casual fan friendly, when is the last time anyone mentioned Gene Tunney, a similar style to FMJ…if you can’t appreciate these great fighters of yore, you have a problem, at least be a little more compassionate of their era…..Posted March 11, 2014 3:49 pm
BTW Martin, thanks for not getting upset at me for recommending you publish and article or break up your long posts. I wasn’t trying to put you down. You wrote some good stuff. It was just so much reading! :)Posted March 11, 2014 3:38 pm
“I did not know that Angulo was “very sick and weak”. Can you corroborate that somehow? Did Angulo say this in the post-fight press conference?”
I got the information second hand from Joseph Herron’s show, The Pugilist’s Corner-The Weekend Wrap, last Sunday. The information was provided by James Gogue who is a boxing “talent-scout”, advisor, analyst, former trainer, and who is well-known and respected in boxing circles–both professional and amateur. James was present at the weigh-in and reported what he saw with his own eyes. BTW, just so you understand the level of James Gogue’s involvement in the sport, and his level of expertise, consider that he just signed talented young prospect Keandre Gibson with Golden Boy Promotions. Keandre also fought last weekend on the undercard and won his bout. He is presently undefeated as a pro.Posted March 11, 2014 3:37 pm
FA: yup Angulo is a shot fighter! This fight is a tune up and to hype up a slow Canelo who got beat by P4P king! I want to see him fight Chavez, Martinez,GGG or Cotto. This Canelo will lose again!Posted March 11, 2014 3:25 pm
Canelo did remind fight-fans why Cotto and Kirkland avoided his challengeS. he would Bust(!), Sock(!), and Rattle those vatos UP. otherwise, i can’t recall a veteran contender(?) with limited prospects reject a guaranteed $10 million payday.Posted March 11, 2014 3:21 pm
No, nothing new was learned Saturday Night. Angulo looks to be on the backside of his career and is a shell of himself. He can be a gatekeeper at Jr Middle Weight for up and coming fighters. Alvarez looked the same pre Trout, pre Mayweather. Fast, strong, good combinations at a stationary target. Watch for Kirkland to be his next fight in July or early August, then end the year with Molina for his share of the title.Posted March 11, 2014 2:47 pm
what we learned is that Angulo wasn’t the same after he quit against Lara. Canela don’t want to fight another slick boxerPosted March 11, 2014 2:33 pm
Agreed we learned nothing new about Canelo or Angulo. We knew before that Canelo can whup these type of boxers and we also knew Angulo is damaged goods.Posted March 11, 2014 2:17 pm
Anonymouse…, You’re on crack.
Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez were great fighters… They weren’t perfect fighters… Were they?
Ali got hit too much and ducked Holmes to fight tyro Leon Stinks
Obviously—because of the above episodes—none of them were as good as Floyd. Floyd has yet to taste defeat.
By Floyd’s age, all of the above had been roundly beaten more than once.Posted March 11, 2014 2:04 pm
E in Denver
Kirkland is basically the same fighter Angulo is. Right now Kirkland is a step sideways for Canelo. Slower, easy to hit & will stay in front of you all night. Kirkland is fun to watch if he faces someone who will stand still & trade with him.Posted March 11, 2014 2:04 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Pardon me, I meant Tard…Posted March 11, 2014 2:01 pm
It’s Me, Ernie
Nice work Tark. Getting an early start on covering ALL angles so you can say after the bout that you knew it all along. Weakness at it’s finest…Posted March 11, 2014 2:00 pm
They tried making the fight with Kirkland and had it almost signed till Kirkland backed out due to money demands, then didn’t fight for a year or soPosted March 11, 2014 1:41 pm
They WILL NEVER put Canelo in the ring with Kirkland, UNLESS LKirkland and Ann Wolfe split up again!Posted March 11, 2014 12:47 pm
LOL at “sir”! Thanks for your appreciation (that is, assuming it wasn’t all sarcasm!). It wasn’t meant to be “intellectual” or “engrosing”, but as Hidalg0 points out, it was too long, and I suppose most people will skip it, so good to know that someone got something out it, at least.
Cheers.Posted March 11, 2014 12:17 pm
Martin, thank you sir for your engrossing post. Very intellectual analysis of what the writer wrote. Kudos to you . You are just one of the very few that makes reading an interesting experience. You certainly put the writer on his place!!!Posted March 11, 2014 11:28 am
te tumbo- I doubt going to 160 will help El Perro if it means taking those kind of shots from bigger men. I actually thought Angulo looked better against Lara than in his previous fight, where he looked just like last Saturday, but it wasn’t a body as live as Canelo doing the damage, so he got to him in the end. It’s tough to say what we saw on this fight. The whole idea was to get Canelo back on track, and that he did. It was certainly a more dominating performance than I expected and for all the flack they get, the corner had the right plan: jump on the slow starting Angulo! Canelo looked fast and he looked HUGE next to what supposed to be a guy his size. He also didn’t tire as much considering he was throwing bombs from the get go, but then Angulo was unable to apply pressure and make him worry in any way. In the end this lands in the world of Cotto vs Delvin: a guy that shouldn’t be in your league, but you still have to perform, so props to Canelo for that.Posted March 11, 2014 11:24 am
apart from mayweather this is what you have in todays boxing. very sad.Posted March 11, 2014 11:14 am
“at least as probably”
should have been
“at least as probable”Posted March 11, 2014 11:02 am
Yes, I didn’t mean to write so much. I just tapped it out quickly and was surprised how much there was after I’d submitted it. I have no interest in writing articles, which would take much longer, and would be unpaid labour.
I did not know that Angulo was “very sick and weak”. Can you corroborate that somehow? Did Angulo say this in the post-fight press conference?
Anyway, if he was so ill, he shouldn’t have taken the fight. All I can go on is what transpired in the ring, and that is what I was talking about.
Also, one could make the case that Canelo was not “healthy and strong” against Mayweather because he can’t get down to 152 without becoming weak and sick. Afer all, in his very next fight he couldn’t even make 154, never mind 152. So should we conclude from this that Mayweather is not a far superior boxer to Canelo? You might say, “ah, but Angulo was *really* drained”, but how exactly do we quantify that and make such comparisons?
As I say, all one can go on at the end of the day is how the fighters performed. If they are “very sick” and “very weak”, they have no business being in any boxing ring, never mind at this level.
As for your comment that the fight “gave no indication of how he [Canelo] would do against Erislandy Lara”, you should be addressing that point to the writer, not me. The writer contends that the fight provided confirmation that “Canelo cannot deal with boxers”, that Lara “would present a nightmare for Canelo”, and that he would “struggle mightily against boxers”. My point was that it is patently ridiculous to suggest that a shutout performance against “a slugger, without head movement” who “moves like his shoes are made from cement” can provide *any* kind of “confirmation” for such claims. I also tentatively suggested a few alternative possible scenarios for how a Canelo-Lara fight might go, and gave reasons for why such scenarios were at least as probably, based on the evidence we have, as the writer’s suggestion that Canelo would “struggle mightily” not only against Lara, but any genuine “boxer”.
So, yes, I wrote too much, and no doubt have done so again, but if you’re criticising anyone for supposing that the Canelo-Angulo fight provides indications of how Canelo might do against Lara, it should be the overconfident assertions about it providing “confirmation” that Canelo “can’t deal with boxers” rather than my attempts to counterbalance that by mentioning other possible lessons and scenarios.Posted March 11, 2014 11:00 am
Canelo stated he has no intentions of moving up right now. He said since it wasn’t a title fight then he didn’t see the need to try and shed that last pound. Said the 100 grand didn’t hurt him at allPosted March 11, 2014 10:50 am
6lbs north might be a partial remedy for Angulo as well. he’s simply ponderous. although, he can still a chopping-hooks v. a stationary target but the process of walking down his target is too costly.Posted March 11, 2014 10:39 am
IMO, Angulo looked depleted in the Lara fight. in fact, the last time he looked really strong and healthy was v. some guy named Gomez in 2011. every bout since, i’ve noticed that pale pallor fighters display from dehydration. he was ponderous v. Lara but he’s unrelenting. like “chinese water torture”. it breaks an opponent down and gets the job done. meanwhile, $100k over a single pound just had to be involuntary on Canelo’s part. his body rebelled and refused to yield a single pound more but based on how he looked Saturday, Canelo will make a very strong and fast 160lbr.Posted March 11, 2014 10:36 am
Canelo has beautiful head movement, at times his defense looks amazing with his head movement alone. The one thing everyone an myself don’t like when we see it is stamina. I remember Oscar getting tired Canelo seems to have the same issue, Oscar would always dig deep when he needed it. The problem is against top fighters in made rounds closer then they should have been.Posted March 11, 2014 10:18 am
Yeah from what I read Angulo threw up after the weigh in. What has me perplexed is he has never said he has had issues making weight before. Was there something wrong, did he come in to camp too high in weight? Canelo did the right thing and destroyed Angulos body right away and that took whatever Angulo had in him away. Angulo had no issues in weight when bringing it to Lara. Either way I would take Canelo over Lara.Posted March 11, 2014 10:08 am
BTW Martin, Canelo’s lopsided victory over Angulo gave no indication of how he would do against Erislandy Lara.Posted March 11, 2014 10:07 am
Martin, if you’re going to write such a long-winded post, you should write an article and submit it to ESB for publication. Really, that is an incredibly long piece you wrote there. A thousand-word post on these forums is just not realistic. Or, next time try breaking it up into at least two separate posts.
Regardless, you said, “The principal thing we learnt from this fight, I would suggest, is that Canelo is a far superior talent to Angulo in just about every respect…”
It’s easy to make that kind of analysis when we did not see a healthy strong Alfredo Angulo in the ring. He had a hellacious time making weight and was sick as a result of it. Very sick. And weak. That’s why his punches had no pop. Canelo and his team knew this, they saw it at the weigh-in, and their strategy was to come out fast hard and heavy and to try to take Alfredo out right away. The only reasons Angulo survived to the 10th round were because of his will and toughness.
I would not argue with you that Canelo is a superior talent to Angulo, but we saw only the shell of Alfredo Angulo attempting to make a fight on Saturday night.Posted March 11, 2014 10:04 am
Could not agree with Martin more. This article is unnecessarily critical of Canelo. Canelo was faster, stronger, better defence, and boxed incredibly well. His only loss to the best in the business doesn’t tell anyone anything more than it does about Mayweather’s previous opponents. I have no idea why people just can’t seem to give Canelo the credit he deserves. Very young, good heart, great skills, a lot of power and speed and he actually seems like a good guy who, most importantly is ready to actually fight. I prefer Canelo’s style to Mayweather’s.
I’ll also put on the line now – that I think Canelo will defeat Lara. Whatever Lara’s game plan will be, Canelo will beat him with the same plan, be it boxing, or standing and trading.Posted March 11, 2014 9:55 am
Canelo is very handsome, I wish my body was smooth like his.
Martin, I like Canelo a lot, but long before the Mayweather fight I predicted that the only round Canelo would win would be gifted. Canelo has many fine qualities, but his complete ineptitude in the Mayweather fight has to remove him from any P4P consideration. As I saw that fight it was as if Frankenstein’s monster were trying to dance with Bill “Bojangles” Robinson. And Canelo was Frankenstein’s monster.Posted March 11, 2014 8:31 am
Angulo wasn’t broken down, or just out classed! He took money to be a punching Bag! On the Take! Article is out that Golden boy Boxers are being investigated by FBI ,,, for throwing fight s ,,,, There it is !!!Posted March 11, 2014 8:24 am
“And for that reason, I consider Canelo to be a top P$P fighter rather than a top P4P fighter (and yes, the dollar sign was intentional – once again a top P$P fighter).”
Perhaps he’s both. He’s still in the Ring P4P top 10, but what the fu*k do they know, right? Much better to rank fighters according to our personal likes and dislikes.Posted March 11, 2014 8:23 am
Did anyone expect a different outcome? I mean it’s no accident that Angulo was a hand picked opponent for this fight. He was chosen because he presented little risk and he would make Alvarez look like a world beater.Posted March 11, 2014 8:11 am
” extremely talented boxer, a boxer who many regard as one of the top P4P fighters in the sport.” Well, not many objective fight fans who saw the Mayweather-Canelo (fight if it even qualifies to be called that) regard Canelo as one of the top P4P fighters in the sport. Whatever Canelo was doing in the ring that night, it certainly wasn’t fighting (I think he was protecting himself by not engaging, and he certainly did a fine job of it). And for that reason, I consider Canelo to be a top P$P fighter rather than a top P4P fighter (and yes, the dollar sign was intentional – once again a top P$P fighter).Posted March 11, 2014 8:10 am
P.S. ESB would do well to ban such outspokenly racist cretins as “Cheatin Chihuahuas De Messyhoe”, but then again, it wouldn’t much surprise me if that poster is one and the same person as the author of this “article”.Posted March 11, 2014 8:03 am
Please don’t hide behind “ESN boxing”, dear author. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say, but please show us your article from *before* the fight in which you confidently declared that this was obviously a total mismatch, a fight made simply to make Canelo “look good”. Can you do that?
Moreover, how can one rationally conclude that what we learnt (or, as you hedge it, “was confirmed”) from this fight is that Canelo “cannot deal with boxers”, given that his opponent was someone who, according the author’s own estimation, is not really a boxer at all, but rather a crude, slow, flat-footed “slugger”?
I mean seriously: do you have even a minimal grasp of elementary logic?
Very clearly not.
The principal thing we learnt from this fight, I would suggest, is that Canelo is a far superior talent to Angulo in just about every respect: he punches much harder, is far more skilful, is much more accurate, and has much better defence. Canelo massively outlanded Angulo, and almost every punch he threw was a power punch. In comparison, Angulo’s punches looked slow and ineffectual, and Canelo was extremely successful in eluding them and simply overpowering his opponent.
Now, Canelo punches much harder and more accurately than Angulo, and slips far more punches, and as we know, Angulo dropped Lara twice. Yet this writer opines that it is *obvious* that Canelo would lose badly to Lara, and that Canelo simply “cannot deal with boxers”.
Now again, obviously, there is no possible way to rationally infer such a conclusion, nor to find confirmatory evidence for such a conclusion, on the basis of Saturday night’s fight.
No, there are only two things the author says that could be taken as reasons motivating such a conclusion, the first of which is that Canelo lost to the P4P no 1 in the sport.
Now, everybody acknowledges that Mayweather is a defensive genius who precious few boxers have ever managed to catch with a meaningful shot in his long and illustrious career. Does the fact that Canelo lost to such a fighter provide good reason conclude that Canelo “simply cannot deal with boxers”? Well no — not unless you are ready to say the same about every single boxer who has lost, or would lose, to Mayweather.
The other reason the writer gives for concluding that Canelo “cannot deal with boxers” is that “Lara made Austin Trout look foolish”. From this the author apparently concludes that Trout would do the same, or worse, to Canelo.
One can only assume that the author’s thinking here goes something like this: Lara beat Trout by a wider margin than did Canelo, therefore Lara will beat Canelo by a wide margin.
But wait beat wait a minute. If Angulo, who is (according to the writer) only a crude slugger, managed to drop Lara twice, and Canelo is a much stronger and far more accurate boxer-puncher than Angulo, as well as far better defensively (all these things we learnt on Saturday night), why be do sure that Lara would outbox Canelo rather than that Canelo would KO Lara? I am not saying that this would happen, just that it is an equally reasonable possible scenario.
Unlike the writer, I do not profess to know who would win between Canelo and Lara, but on the basis of what we learnt from Saturday night’s fight, we can tentatively propose that Canelo, being a more accurate boxer than Angulo, might well land a lot more shots on Lara than Angulo did. Moreover, since Canelo punches a lot harder and more accurately than Angulo, while avoiding more shots coming the other way (because of his superior defence, footwork, head movement etc.), and since Angulo dropped Lara twice, it seems quite likely that Canelo would at least be able to drop Lara.
On the other hand, as we know, styles make fights, and there are numerous intangibles. So yes, it is also conceivable that Canelo would struggle against Lara, would be outboxed, and that Lara would manage to avoid Canelo’s big shots. Equally, it could well be a very close fight, with Lara getting dropped but still managing to outland Canelo, and so winning on the scorecards. Hell, it is even conceivable, if seemingly far less likely, that Lara could stop Canelo.
But what we *cannot* rationally conclude, on the basis of all that we now know — and least of all on the basis of what we saw on Saturday night — is that it is *obvious* that Canelo would have no chance against Lara.
In sum, this article, like far too many published on ESB these days, is motivated by nothing more than some kind of irrational spite against a particular boxer. Whether this spite is driven by a personal dislike for Canelo, or for Mexican fighters in general, or pro-black racism, I do not know.
What is absolutely clear, however, is that it is *not* based upon anything like an attempt to arrive at impartial judgement or analysis. Rather, it is designed to do nothing other than vent some hatred, and to discredit a young, extremely talented boxer, a boxer who many regard as one of the top P4P fighters in the sport.
Shame on the writer, and shame on ESB or publishing such biased, bitter, and ill-conceived garbage.Posted March 11, 2014 7:57 am
If you really want to see how great carrot head is watch his fight with Junior …….. Oh thats right he had to actually make weight in that fight …………That was the true demise of him …..On that occasion………………………………………Posted March 11, 2014 6:53 am
The Mad Scientist
Canelo destroyed Angulo Saturday night and anybody who seen the fight is all they saw, end of story..Posted March 11, 2014 6:30 am
The Mad Scientist
What we witness was Canelo beating the fight out of Angulo in the first round with wicked head and body shots..after that El Perro had nothing left to offer for the remainder of the fight..any other assumptions or speculations is just trying to discredit Canelo for not showing the vulnerability you haters hope he would..the fact is Alvarez dominated and won and now all you critics will have to wait until his next fight to hopefully see Canelo get beat, exposed or challenged..for now just deal with that fact and let the kid and his fans celebrate the victory because there is nothing the haters can do about it regardless of what they say..Posted March 11, 2014 6:27 am
Bitterness has nothing to do with it…Posted March 11, 2014 5:51 am
“I say largo is just bitter because his prediction of Canelo gassing out and getting taken out late didn’t come to fruition.”…the mad scientist, I’ve never been afraid to be wrong in my predictions; I make bold predictions & they are right on target 98% of the time; I thought Angulo had something left but the guy was totally SPENT & IT SHOWED; he didn’t throw ONE SINGLE PUNCH with power during the whole fight. Nobody expected that to be the case but that was exactly what we witnessed. To say that I’m bitter because I bring that FACT to the forefront, is unfair. Canelo did OK against a DEAD DOG…THAT’S A FACT.Posted March 11, 2014 5:48 am
There you have it folks. The Great TARK says Ray Robinson was not a great fighter. in fact he thinks Robinson was a joke! Thank goodness TARK is the saviour here at ESB.
What!?! you moron it goes both ways dummy. What was Canelo doing seeking a fight with a Welter? Please name 6 of Canelo’s last opponents and see what is their true weight/division. Alvarez has made a habit of beating smaller guys. I keep telling you clowns that he will have to ultimately fight someone his size in the near future and that will tell us a lot about his talent, until then he has no proved a single thing to me.Posted March 11, 2014 5:20 am
ES your stealing my comments(just kiding)
After reviewing the fight; This was my thoughts also.Posted March 11, 2014 5:06 am
“Understand that the match-makers at Golden Boy were tasked with one thing and one thing only:
Beezy the dude can’t make 154, hes cheating us now, we need to start the “Canelo move up weight class campaign”Posted March 11, 2014 4:45 am
Tark it will be more logical when he fights at the right weight,middleweight, he’s going to get beat up there vs GGG,Quillin etc, He should fight Gabe Rosado next that would be a good test fight even if it is at 155 but better if its at middleweight, thats it Canelo fight a real middleweight instead of guys that dont stand a chance.Posted March 11, 2014 4:42 am
It was still far more competitive than Mayweather-Maidana will be. Oh, Floyd. People would probably pay 70 bucks to watch him shadowbox for 12 rounds and have the audacity to call it his “best available opponent.”Posted March 11, 2014 4:21 am
I’m tired of having fights shoved down my throat.Posted March 11, 2014 2:35 am
I didn’t watch Canelo-Angulo… I want to see the most logical matchups.Posted March 11, 2014 2:33 am
“They” Will give you the fight they want! They don’t care your wants. You just pay and shut up. Rules lolPosted March 11, 2014 2:22 am
I’ve said before that Canelo will come up with an issue like an injury and they’ll pretend to be negotiating with Lara… Something will make the fight go sideways and they’ll go for Sergio Martinez when he’s free.
Unless Canelo overrules his handlers and demands a Lara fight. If that happens they’ll put Alvarez-Lara in the Alamodome with the same setup they had for Trout…
But I’d be shocked if that happens… I feel they just won’t fight.Posted March 11, 2014 2:16 am
I think Canelo and his team could be ducking Lara… but time will tell.. Lara would only make sense as his next opponent.. unless they went with Kirkland…
But it should be Lara… that’s the best fight at 154.. and the fight real fans want to seePosted March 11, 2014 1:48 am
Man… they better give us Canelo vs Lara… smh….
btw.. great article in my opinionPosted March 11, 2014 1:45 am
“That, however, is not boxing – the art of hitting without getting hit.
Boxing isn’t Kung Fu, grasshopper. You need to crawl out of Floyd Mayweather Jr.’s back pocket once in a while and get some fresh air.Posted March 11, 2014 1:00 am
Nothing wrong with taking a bounce back fight after being shut out. Angulo was a credible enough fighter with a style suited for Alvarez. He was supposed to win and hopefully look good. He did. Nothing to get excited about but he did the job well. However, PPV? That was ridiculous.Posted March 11, 2014 12:46 am
I learned that FMJ needs to stack everything in his favour and now I know why he made Canelo boil down to a corpse before fighting him. I learned that Canelo cannot make the 154lb limit anymore and it is time for some juicy Middleweight match ups. I learned that Lara is getting left behind with no real challengers unless he moves up to Middleweight also.Posted March 11, 2014 12:40 am
The Mad Scientist
If you say so, what we know for sure is that Canelo dominated and won the fight..nobody beats Alvarez in a real fight at 154lbs IMO if so what’s his name..???Posted March 10, 2014 11:59 pm
Canelo was beating on a cadaver with some meat on the bones & almost zero energy; the funny thing is that a dead corpse, like Angulo was, touched Saul everytime he had the energy to do so.Posted March 10, 2014 11:43 pm
The Mad Scientist
I say largo us just bitter because his prediction of Canelo gassing out and getting taken out late didn’t come to fruition..its a new day, bring on Martinez, Lara, Kirkland, Quillin and triple G, we ain’t never scared you heard..Lol!Posted March 10, 2014 11:43 pm
“I will say, however, that Canelo’s stamina has been improving over his last couple of fights.” largo says you’re full of sh.it because that wasn’t evident in this fight…the only reason Canelo looks good in this fight was because “el perro” was toothless & dead on arrival.Posted March 10, 2014 11:34 pm
No, we did learn something. We learned that Angulo is more shopworn and ragged out than we thought.Posted March 10, 2014 11:05 pm