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Hearns

Hearns would Win by KO in Round 4

Posted May 21, 2014 5:25 pm 


Anonymous

I always wondered if cotzee right hand could have found larry holmes jaw they way the very ordinary reynaldo snipes right hand did . if holmes had a weakness it was he could be hit and hurt with right hands the way mike weaver and shavers hit him . the tall cotzee had a good right hand .also the way buster douglas hit and moved against tyson I always wondered what douglas could have done if he took boxing sereious

Posted December 21, 2012 3:05 am 


TJ

TARK….

You need to check out RING MAGAZINE and how they rate WLAD in Dreamfighs vs the Heavyweight greats! Interesting.

Posted November 8, 2012 11:53 am 


TJ

I forgot about BRANDON RIOS…..

Posted October 28, 2012 9:33 am 


TARK

I had Matthysse beating Judah by a mile.

Posted October 27, 2012 5:49 pm 


Anonymous

Peterson should get a 2-year ban for using banned PEDs — i.e. synthetic testosterone. I don’t want to see this guy for a while, but Boxing is so screwed up we probably will.

Posted October 27, 2012 5:44 pm 


TARK

The way Judah looked against Khan he’s not a player… Khan is probably not going back into the lion’s den until he upgrades his skills with Hunter—that will take a couple years so he’s not a player right now… I would stage the tourney with 4 combatants—Garcia vs Maidana and Matthysse vs Rios… The winners can fight for supremacy … The problem I have with a 6-man round-robin — it necessarily includes weak players and takes 3 years to complete. A 4-man tourney takes only a year. Only 3 fights and you have a winner.

Posted October 27, 2012 5:39 pm 


TJ

SWIFT looked a whole lot better vs ERIK MORALES second time round and when he introduced the jab to the head and to the body, he controlled the fight allowing him to set up the devastating finish in the 4th.

He is now definitely a player at 140…..

I would like to see a tourney between SWIFT, MATTHYSSE, KHAN, PETERSON (if he is allowed to box on), MAIDANA and either OLUSEGUN and/or SUPER JUDAH….

That would make for a very interesting SUPER SIX TOURNY….

You have 2 Argentines who are great finishers…. The chance for redemption for Maidana…. the chance of redemption for Khan and the chance for redemption for Peterson……

Also Matthysse could gain revenge over Judah and Judah over Khan……

Any combination between these guys will be extremely exciting and will tell us more about the ultimate man at 140…..

Perhaps the final could be between MATTHYSSE and GARCIA?????

Posted October 27, 2012 7:04 am 


TJ

IT WILL BE extremely interesting to see what VIRGIL HUNTER can do with AMIR….
If Amir can both listen and process the information Hunter gives to him, then perhaps he has a chance at reinventing himself….

SADLY, I feel Amir only listens to himself when the going gets a little tough and will do what he wants to do, ending up with egg all over his face and another painful defeat.

I also feel he needs to sit down on his punches and work on accuracy rather than volume….
It can be done ….

The other thing he should work on is focusing on his own fights and not 3 or 4 fights ahead, eyeing up a Floyd Mayweather or Miguel Cotto, because at this stage of the game he is still Light Years away from being able to compete with them.

Posted October 27, 2012 6:57 am 


TARK

TJ…., You’re right. Khan’s head movement is terrible. He hides behind his gloves and takes a terrific battering. Some boxers like Arthur Abraham and Muhammad Ali tried to block everything, which doesn’t work. Some boxers like Wilfred Benitez, Sergio Martinez, when he was younger and speedier, and Paul Williams to a degree, try to use their quickness to slip everything. You need a balanced approach because even masters get fooled a certain percentage of the time. Khan almost knocked Marcos Maidana out in the first round and won all the early rounds decisively—but he barely survived the late rounds. He had all the head movement of a mannequin—but miraculously won the fight. Against an all around boxer-puncher like Garcia he didn’t have a chance. It’s not so much a balance issue. His stance needs work but his defensive and clinching skills suck.

Posted October 26, 2012 12:05 pm 


Anonymous

TARK yours and my assessment of AMIR KHAN is one and the same! However, I feel he lacks balance, which with a style he uses is critical… Without balance he is always there to be hit/ countered…
Yes, he has great offense, handspeed, but timing will always beat him, particularly when his defence is so threadbare.
People forget that good defence wins matches.

Posted October 26, 2012 2:55 am 


TJ

KHAN has little to no head movement!

Posted October 26, 2012 2:48 am 


TARK

TJ…. I have to say, Garcia is a great fighter and timed Khan’s punches to perfection. He’s one cool dude and knew he would get his openings. Garcia’s corner was going nuts but there was a gleam in Danny’s eye and a smile crept across his face as his dad went crazy. Danny was the calmest guy in the building—just like Floyd Mayweather Jr when his uncle was going nuts after the 2nd round of the Mosley fight. Roger was shouting, “You don’t have to fight him. Box him.” Floyd’s smiled a smile that said, “I got this. I’m not boxing nobody. I’m going right after this punk and ring his bell a few times.” … Floyd and Garcia have “natural” intuition almost nobody has.. 99.9999999% of boxers you have to teach this stuff to them for years before they get a handle on it. Knowledge is power and that’s what Khan lacks right now.

Posted October 25, 2012 6:03 pm 


TARK

Steward was a good trainer and good trainers make a difference… I have to disagree with your assessment of Amir Khan. He’s a brilliant offensive boxer with brilliant hand and foot speed but will end up like Wilfred Benitez if he didn’t switch trainers to Virgil Hill and learn something. Hill can teach him. AK’s inside defense is nonexistent. His infighting skills are nonexistent. His inside defense is nonexistent. His clinching skills are nonexistent … His last 2 fights laid his deficiencies bare in a glaring way. In a weak division he might be champion for years—but the 140-pound division is loaded with talent.

Posted October 25, 2012 6:00 pm 


TJ

SAD, SAD DAY today as I’ve had confirmation of the death of one of the Great trainers of any era, the one and only EMANUEL STEWARD….

I pray he rests in peace and his family can find comfort in the fact that he was both brilliant and a true genius in his role that spanned more than 50 years both with the amateurs (incl. U.S. Olympic squads) and the professionals….

MANNY was one of the main reasons I got into boxing over 30 years ago with his charge THOMAS HITMAN HEARNS I was lured into the noble art and captivated by this duo…..

As the leader of the conveyor belt of fighters at the KRONK GYMNASIUM Detroit, I got behind the whole team for more than 20 glorious years and they served as my inspiration and filled my formative years, letting me know that hard work and dedication would eventually lead to good rewards in life.

Thomas Hearns will always be my favourite fighter and standing side-by-side with him was Emanuel Steward… the two of them are synonymous with each other.

I am filled with great sadness and loss…..

I came on this page initially to debate Hearns and then we rambled on to many other situations in boxing, but time and again Manny’s name came up in my posts, lately with how he trained OLIVER McCALL to smash LENNOX LEWIS to bits and then conversely he trained LENNOX to engineer a win over Mccall…..

Manny’s legacy was not only to have trained some of my favourite fighters such as Hearns and JIMMY PAUL of the Kronk to world titles, but to then be the MR FIX IT MAN to resurrect careers such as Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko to world titles and to take the likes of BAD INTENTIONS Jermain Taylor to the forefront of the boxing table….

With each year we lose more and more of the greats of yesteryear whether it be GEORGIE BENTON,. BOUIE FISCHER, ANGELO DUNDEE, SIR HENRY COOPER, BAD BENNIE BRISCOE, and so many more…..

The sad fact is these greats and their knowledge, input, links with the past greats such as RAY ARCEL are lost forever…

Goodbye and goodnight Emanuel Steward, I am still shocked and saddened but I will remember you as one of the great coaches, who knew what boxing was about….

Keeping things simple, mastering the mind as the ultimate weapon and mastering teh fundamentals…..

Your like we will never see again…..

God bless you and may you Rest in Eternal Peace.

Posted October 25, 2012 5:20 pm 


TJ

I REMEMBER when I was at the Floyd Mayweather boxing gym chatting with the fighters. a few years back…

I was introduced to JESSIE VARGAS who had just beaten Vicious VIVIAN HARRIS in a round and we chatted boxing and we chatted AMIR KHAN…
I broke down how to beat Khan with him Jessie, who seemed well-grounded and polite and very interested in my theory (BTW, which is not the way either PETERSON or GARCIA beat Amir)…

For a tall, well-schooled counter-puncher (boxer), Amir would be an easy opponent…

He never moves his head, stays in punching range too-long and throws the same 5-6 punch combination….
I always said timing was the way to beat him, to punch with him – maybe not on 1 or 2, but on 3 and 4 (if you know what I mean)….
Either slip his leads, or stay tight whilst moving into range, employing good defence and to time his leads and land your own effective counters and then repeat and repeat again as Khan cannot help but repeat his own combinations…

His main problem is he has not got good enough balance for what he tries to do…. Look at his in the MALIGNAGGI fight and unfortunately for him since joining ROACH, his instincts are to fight his way out of trouble and trade.

But, he is not a solid enough puncher to keep guys off him and he can be broken down.

The interesting thing is that after I talked to VARGAS, FLOYD came out and said AMIR had to go through JESSIE if he wanted to reach him!

This was when FLOYD announced his comeback fight vs VOCTOR ORTIZ….

Here in the UK AMIR and all the other ignorant people laughed at this statement from FLOYD, especially when VARGAS went life & death with JOSESITO LOPEZ…

But, what they didn’t know is how solid Lopez’ competition was and how good of a fighter he is having stopped MIKE DALLAS in his previous outing…

I personally think LOPEZ would have stopped Khan had they fought!

Anyways, I think KHAN takes far too many flush punches, and he and the likes of NATHAN CLEVERLEY and MARCO HUCK are headed for pugilistic dementia if they carry on with the fighting styles they have adopted.

Posted October 25, 2012 2:43 am 


TARK

TJ… You said, “You have to ask ROCK NEWMAN why Bowe couldn’t get the match made with LENNOX” ..No I don’t have to ask.. Bowe was scared to death of Lewis. The coward refused to fight Lewis because he thought he might get killed. Newman and Bowe made a big media display of dumping Bowe’s championship belt in a garbage can rather than fight his number 1 ranked mandatory challenger, Lewis. Bowe was stripped of his title for this cowardly act. Golota was a slow, awkward, fouling coward who QUIT in several fights.. Lewis flattened Golota in the first round and so did Brewster. Tyson made Golota quit in the 2nd. Even Michael Grant made Golota quit. That’s why Bowe agreed to fight Golota. He knew the big dumb ox couldn’t fight. Bowe looked like a clueless disgrace in those fights—even though he won them on fouls …. I have nothing but contempt for cowards, duckers, cheaters, foulers, and quitters. They all give Boxing a bad name.

Posted October 25, 2012 12:13 am 


TARK

I predicted Benitez would come to a bad end because anyone who fights off his front foot and tries to slip everything get nailed dead on with straight punches—which do the most damage. I thought Duran and Hearns would knock Benitez out, but Duran had nights where he just couldn’t fight, and Hearns would box boxers and slug with sluggers. I thought Ali would end bad like Benitez—Ali got caught with big blooping rights and wide looping hooks because he pulled straight back to avoid them. Most world class boxers dip under them with ease—but Ali was a great absorber and Benitez wasn’t.

Posted October 25, 2012 12:03 am 


TJ

PERSONALLY, I do not watch YOUTUBE or even bother with things like BOXREC, because I find statistics to be totally meaningless unless you know the boxers involved and I just don’t get the feel with a lot of these poorly scribed footage…

I’d personally pay for the fights I want and see them in the best quality available!

My comments and thoughts are based on watching this sweet science for thirty years and I am lucky enough to remember most of the fights I’ve seen or articles I’ve read if they were interesting enough….

WILFRED Radar BENITEZ’s… KO of our own MAURICE HOPE is another vivid memory as also being told in my boxing days how Maurice handle some snooker cue wielding thugs in a bar with ease…..

I was a big fan of Benitez, who we all know is the youngest champion in history at 17, beating great champion ANTONIO CERVANTES at Super Lightweight before going on to be a 3 Weight World champion, taking on the likes of LEONARD, HEARNS & DURAN during his career!

You could be right about his defences as he burnt out quickly, by the age of 27 he was more or less washed up and took some frightful shellackings and I hear he is in a very bad way these days and if anyone can help him I wish they would….

Posted October 24, 2012 6:53 pm 


TJ

Oh, shoot! SHELLY FINKLE was Evander Holyfield’s manager…. I couldn’t remember off teh top of my head!

Posted October 24, 2012 6:40 pm 


TJ

I personally thought that JAMES BUSTER DOUGLAS’ performance vs TYSON was one of the best displays of pure boxing in a Heavyweight fight I’d seen in any era… He was nigh on brilliant until he got caught and floored. But, he picked himself up, dusted himself down and continued doing what he was doing…. On that particular night I feel JBD could’ve beaten any Heavyweight who ever lived…… SUPERB!!!!! It made up for his previous showing we saw on the BBC vs another decent Heavyweight in TONY TNT TUCKER… Who was tall and athletic…… I don’t think BOWE was a coward… He took two beatings at the hands of GOLOTA, where a coward would have looked for an easy way out…. You have to ask ROCK NEWMAN (or was it SHELLY FINKLE)? why they couldn’t get the match made with LENNOX…..

Posted October 24, 2012 6:37 pm 


TARK

I have DVDs of thousands of fights going back to the early 1900′s… But I rarely watch them because they’re almost all on YouTube.com… They have 100′s of thousands of fights on YouTube that anyone can access at any time… One I had boxers study a lot was Leonard vs Benitez to show the utility of Leonard’s jab against a guy who everyone said slipped punches masterfully. The first 3 rounds Leonard concentrated on the jab and later even floors Benitez with a jab. There’s no way the fastest boxer can slip a good jab consistently, or even slip a great straight right consistenty… I always said Benitez would get KO’d by the first good boxer he met and his career would end early because he fought off his front foot and tried to slip everything. Benitez flummoxed a lot of ordinary boxers with his rhythm, speed, motion, and feints, but better boxers ignored all that and kept hitting him with a good percentage of their punches. Ali was another guy who tossed a lot of garbage feints and movement at you, but I saw in his fights with Jones, Cooper, and Mildenberger that a big, tall, young heavyweight who matched Ali’s height, weight, and had good boxing skills would beat him. There just weren’t any until Norton and Holmes came along. I also thought Tyson wouldn’t fare well with a big, tall, strong, fast, hard punching, good boxer like Douglas. Douglas could have been a great fighter but he had all the ambition of a bum. I knew Bowe would beat Holyfield in a slugfest, because he was bigger and stronger. Evander’s contempt for Bowe overruled his common sense. But I also knew a great heavyweight like Lewis would kill a coward like Bowe, and I wanted to see that fight very badly.

Posted October 24, 2012 11:22 am 


TJ

TARK:

I forgot to add VIVEK WALLACE, who gets alot of stick from alot of quarters and in the U.K. my good friend and boxing historian SPENCER (SPIRIT) FEARON….

I don’t rate RING MAGAZINE these days as how can you have a truly independent magazine with the likes of ODLH, Sugar Shane and B-Hop (before hand BARRERA), with their paws all over it?

It clouds the issues of being impartial in my books…..

I raised this issue over the last five yeears of so in print on several occassions…

They also did alot to promote the likes of their boy AMIR KHAN…..

Complete joke to push him as the next new face of boxing!!!!

Posted October 24, 2012 7:51 am 


TARK

Boxing has a great history… Marciano wouldn’t have been successful in any other era but the early 50′s.. He actually fought mostly washed up light heavyweights as challengers because there were no real heavyweights of any ability.. Ali wouldn’t have been as successful in the 80′s, 90′s, 00′s or today.. He came at just the right time as well.. Johnson would have been formidable in any era because of his physical strength and infighting ability.. Johnson’s peak fighting weight was 215 for Jeffries because he starved for so many years when he wasn’t welcome in restaurants and would go days without eating a regular meal. Before he got fat on the lam from the US and living out of a suitcase as an exile he was doing really well as champion.. He thought his early years of starving to death were far better than his fugitive years as champion, because his future and all the excitement of achievement was day by day, with nobody sending extradition papers after him.. He had a really hard time and his indomintable spirit was completely broken at times.

Posted October 23, 2012 9:50 pm 


TARK

Acutually, the division was MORE relevant under Holmes… Holmes-Cooney pulled more revenue than any Ali fight… And Ali-Holmes pulled more money than any of Ali’s previous fights. Ali made 40% more money fighting Holmes than in any of his previous fights — and 50 times what he made for fights like Ali-Evangelista, Ali-Dunn, Ali-London, Ali, Wepner, Ali-Lubbers, Ali-Blin, and Ali-Coopman.

Posted October 23, 2012 12:32 pm 


TJ

TARK:

For his two biggest fights Hearns came in emaciated at 144 vs LEONARD and MANNY STEWARD said his legs were overtrained for HAGLER….

He also employed the wrong strategies in both contests!

I have both VHS and DVD collections of SANCHEZ (RIP), who I just love to watch fight… He had a bit of everything and that skill of being able to both read and control a fight!

SRL also stayed clear of both McCALLUM and AARON PRYOR, who chased him for a while…

The problem was Hearns goth the shot at DURAN instead of McCALLUM who was supposed to face DURAN next….

The reason why HEARNS is my favourite is because he was the man that got me into boxig as I both feared him and loved him at the smae time and he always gave value for money – win,lose or draw!

FINITO – because I like the littel guys like JOLTIN JEFF CHANDLER at Bantam, JIRO WATANABE and many others….

WILFREDO BAZOOKA GOMEZ because althou’ he smashed all KO world title defence records (17 straight if I remember) it was because he didn’t out and out slug, but he boxed and used his legs to set up his opponents before he took them out – altho’ I was gutting when he lost at home in San Juan (if I remember), getting smashed to pieces by THE PROFESSOR AZUMAH NELSON, who fast also became a boxer I admired!

Larry Holmes perservered through much criticism as he filled the void left by ALI, FRAZIER (RIP), FOREMAN and IMHO he did a fantastic job of keeping the division relevant!

Posted October 23, 2012 2:16 am 


TARK

The thing about Holmes is, Ali would ask him about the jab. “What do you do when you feint? You fool me with every feint, and your jab pops me when I don’t expect it. How do you do that?” Larry would show Ali the subtle motions and techniques, but Ali could never quite duplicate it. Holmes would tell his closest friends, “I know I can beat Ali easy. I outbox Ali any time but I don’t embarrass him because I’d lose my job. It’s an ideal job for now, but when I get ANY top contender to fight me I’m quitting and hiring my own crew. Then I want Ali. Many heavyweights are tougher for me than Ali.”

From your favorites list I have Sanchez and Holmes in my top five as well. Hearns I never liked. He wasn’t extra smart like Sanchez, Holmes, Leonard, Jofre, or Mayweather. He ducked Mike McCallum, who is older than Hearns, and he was a sucker for loaded right hands. I couldn’t believe how Hearns came in underweight for Leonard—and slugged it out with Hagler and Barkley.

Posted October 22, 2012 5:58 pm 


TARK

Dokes had great hand speed like Ibeabuchi and Haye. But he lacked big time power and great feet. Dokes had too much weight on his small frame. David Haye said, “I bulked up to 220 for Valuev and other fights, and it didn’t work. I’m much stronger but I’m slow as Hell. 210 is a much better weight because I’m 3 X faster and almost as strong.” For a small heavyweight it’s a balancing act. Dokes, as good as he was, didn’t slip right hands masterfully like Holmes or Haye, and he didn’t move well on his feet at 215. Too heavy. Ibeabuchi had only 15 fights behind him for his UD win vs Tua. He faced Byrd with only 19 fights and looked spectacular. His hand speed was unbelievable for Chris Byrd. His power was incredible. Ike weighed 245 for that fight and looked perfect. We never did see the best Ike Ibeabuchi.

Posted October 22, 2012 5:48 pm 


TJ

TARK:

re your DAVID HAYE comments…..

Can we not say the same about recently deceased MICHAEL DYNAMITE DOKES????

Dokes was being groomed as the heir apparent and although his 1 round win over MIKE HERCULES WEAVER was forever shrouded as being tainted he was on the ladder to the moon, before being blown away by GERRIE COETZEE!!!!!!

I remember him being paraded as the heir apparent to MUHAMMAD ALI,….

DOKES had it all, speed, power, movement, flamboyance….

He was a player often with his roses, sharp suits and his natural talent…..

Unfortunately for him and for us DOKES never quite achieved what he should have done as he discovered the temptation and lure of COCAINE…..

Basically he told in a later interview how he trained for COETZEE on coke and not much else….

But, he still had enough about him in a comeback before he ran into EVANDER HOLYFIELD……

Another HEAVYWEIGH who could have possibly been amonsgt the greats before he got himself incarcerated in prison/ psychiatric care was the NIGERIAN:

IKE IBEABEAUCHI

Did you see such a chiselled man, who could throw combinations and fight hard for 12 rounds?

His bout with the TUA MAN is often shown on ESPN and is a reminder of what Heavyweight boxing used to be and should be today…..

Two guys risking their winning (unbeaten) records in order to get on the ladder for a title shot and fighting like they mean it!!!!!!

Not a guy protecting his ledger against pillow-fisted, soft-bellied gym rats with no rudimentary knowledge of what to do in a boxing ring!

IKE had similar problems to those of McCall, Bowe and many others before him and ended up doing some reprehensible things for which he was rightfully punished……

But, for a brief period he had the future of the HEAVYWEIGHT world in his hands!

Posted October 22, 2012 2:08 pm 


TJ

TARK….

We are in agreement with one thing….

I rate LARRY HOLMES as the finest Heavyweight I have seen, but then again I grew up with HOLMES as the champion, so I am biased….

The EASTON ASSASSIN averaged 4 defences of his crown per year – which is awesome for a Heavyweight and today for any fighter…..

This was at a time when we had no PPVs, no YOUTUBE, no internet, but sheer hard work and dedication for a fighter to get to the top.

I know you don’t agree with me, but I will go to my grave in the view that fighters of the 70′s and 80′s were much HUNGRIER and TOUGHER and in that period it was astonishing to see how many talented fighters existed in each of the divisions , (particularly from 1980 through 1983/4)…

This meant the PREMIER TITLE in all of sports was kept fluid and not on the shelf, where fans would have to wait for the best part of a year to see their man fight.

EVERYONE knew who the champion was and he could rightly say he was the BEST IN THE WORLD….

My favourite FIVE boxers I have documented many times:

1/ TOMMY HEARNS
2/ SALVADOR SANCHEZ (RIP)
3/WILFREDO GOMEZ
4/LARRY HOLMES
5/RICARDO (FINITO) LOPEZ

Holmes was not the biggest, wasn’t the quickest or most mobile, but for a man who had almost no education he was one of the smartest fighters….

But, what he lacked in size and speed he more than made up in nousse…..

LARRY had the best jab in boxing, able to work it as a stiff ramrod, a range finder, a probe, to hold off his opponent, but I particularly like the use of his up jab, which I copied in my own ring endeavours and when he used it getting up on his toes (even in his later years, well past his heyday)…..

He had a spiteful right hand he would bring behind his jab, with enough authority to get your attention,…..

Armed with such a potent weapon, LARRY had something most men just don’t have …. HEART…. He had a heart big enough for 5 men!!!!

When I saw him decked by both Shavers & Snipes I thought no way he gets up from this, but he did and he fought back so hard in the same round you’d never have known he was decked so heavily…..

He linked HEART with incredible recuperative powers and at his peak had good workrate and the ability to control the ebb and flow of a fight.

His will to win when he took the crown from Norton… Have you ever seen such a 15th round with Heavyweights fighting as if they were in the first????

BTW Holmes biography is a very good read….

He had 20 odd amateur bouts and excelled quickly but learned his trade as a sparring partner in the very early 70′s for both Ali and Frazier…..

All in all LARRY HOLMES IMHO was a great champion with 20 odd title defences, 2nd only to JOE LOUIS and his two back-to-back defeats to MIKE SPINKS were dubious to say the least…..

I am lucky enough to own a huge collection of Boxing videos, DVDs and magazines from back-in-the day…. and I have the majority of LARRY HOLMES bouts I often dig out and watch from time to time….

Great fighter…. Underrated!!!!!

Oh, yes…. He is one of the few fighters to have invested his money wisely and he still lives comfortably….

Posted October 22, 2012 1:57 pm 


TARK

Obviously if Lewis tried to fight Wladimir today he’d be crushed… In their primes it would depend on the referee and how he tolerated wrestling, head knocking, holding and hitting, and other fouls — and if Lewis got through the early rounds. Wladimir has a lot more endurance today than 8 years ago. He scored a 12th round KO of Chambers. He never stopped upping his game or skills, and Lewis could slack off at times.

Posted October 22, 2012 11:13 am 


TJ

TARK….

This is the third attempt by me to send this reply to you.

Not sure what the problem is MODERATOR?

(sending this at 13:47 on Monday October 22, 2012…

I actually do rate both KITSCHKO brothers and actually like them, because they are gentlemen both inside and outside the ring….

I just don’t know if I can rate them as highly as you do….

I personally believe they haven’t had the career defining fights that the really great fighters have had such as Pac, Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali et al have had…

It is not their fault, but we seriously have not had any decent Heavyweights in decades….

The biggest joke of recent times was to grant Tony The(Timid)Tiger Thompson a rematch with WLAD….

Thankfully, WLAD blew him away after their dire first bout!

David Haye announced himself on the Heavyweight scene with disgusting tactics – severed heads, taunting WLAD and shouting off his mouth – instead of smashing his way through the joke contenders ala MIKE TYSON.

He swore he was going to bring excitement to the division like Mike did, but in his only two signficant Heavyweight try-outs he snooze-fested his way into decisioning the big lump VALUEV and chicken-danced his way to a lopsided points defeat vs WLAD…..

IRON MIKE would have stepped to both men, win or lose – do or die….

That is the difference….

Just like his good mate AMIR KHAN he is full of wind and promises the world but then delivers nothing….

They are decent fighters at their level, but that is it!

Haye needs to smash his way through HELENIUS, PULOV, PRICE and FURY (who dissed him) to show us he means business!!!!

I personally don’t even watch his fights because IMHO he is technically not that great – He makes far too many errors!

Posted October 22, 2012 8:50 am 


TJ

TARK:

The problem I have with LENNOX LEWIS is that he is a revisionist living in cloud cuckoo land….

He is the sort of guy who would find fault with a compliment, let alone someone daring to criticise him.

I can’t find too much fault with his boxing ability, but when a man flits from England to Canada, to USA to England then Jamaica depending on which way the wind is blowing, you got to question his loyalties, which are only to the dollar bill.

To turn his back on a country that gave him everything on his way to Gold… Oh, well that’s his bid.

I personally think he lucked out when Manny Steward dumped Oliver McCall to train him after masterminding his defeat.

It would be interesting to see how Lennox would have progressed without Manny, who IMHO is one of the best world class trainers still out there.

I still remember how FRANK BRUNO was outboxing him with ease for the first 5/6 rounds, before he got careless and got caught with a cracking left hook.

Lennox, had no defence and was swinging from the floor…

How do you think LENNOX would have matched with WLAD, circa 2002 and how do you think LENNOX would match with WLAD today????

Posted October 22, 2012 8:44 am 


TJ

TARK…. I actually do rate both Klitschko brothers and actually like them, because they are gentlemen both inside and outside the ring….

I just don’t know if I can rate them as highly as you do….

I personally believe they haven’t had the career defining fights that the really great fighters have had such as Pac, Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali et al…

It is not their fault, but we seriously have not had any decent Heavyweights in decades….

The biggest joke of recent times was to grant Tony The(Timid)Tiger Thompson a rematch with WLAD….

Thankfully, WLAD blew him away after their dire first bout!

David Haye announced hiomself on the Heavyweight scene with disgusting tactics – severed heads, taunting WLAD and shouting off his mouth, instead of smashing his way through the joke contenders ala Mike Tyson.

He swore he was going to bring excitement to the division like Mike did, but in his two signficant Heavyweight try outs he snooze-fested his way into decisioning the big lump VALUEV and chicken-danced his way to a lopsided points defeat vs WLAD…..

IRON MIKE would have stepped to both men, win or lose- do or die….

That is the difference….

Just like his good mate AMIR KHAN he is full of wind and promises the world but then delivers nothing….

They are decent fighters at their level, but that is it!

Haye needs to smash his way through HELENIUS, PULOV, PRICE and FURY (who dissed him) to show us he means business!!!!

Posted October 22, 2012 8:33 am 


TARK

I Actually meant to say “One of the biggest, strongest, etc..” Which Wladimir was… And anyone reading that would have known I consider Vitali the better of the 2 K Bros.

Posted October 21, 2012 11:37 pm 


TARK

Lewis sneered—but not all the way to the bank… Lewis could have gotten 40 million for a Vitali rematch but knew he would be crushed.. Lewis is a big talker.. He promised VK a rematch several times in the following weeks but refused to negotiate for one.. Vitali was begging for one.. LL was behind on points on ALL CARDS to guy who had blood straeming into his eye from cuts caused by LL raking his laces over Vitali’s face, causing 3 deep jagged cuts on Vitali’s cheek and his eyelid.. In a rematch Vitali would have been prepared for the fouling tactics.. Lewis was badly hurt by Vitali’s best shots but couldn’t shake or stagger Vitali with his best right handers on a half blinded opponent.. I think LL took these things into consideration when he ducked a rematch.

Posted October 21, 2012 11:35 pm 


TJ

TARK:

you wrote:

Haye’s…. Facing the biggest, strongest, quickest, most skilled, and most lethal heavyweight champion of all time,

WITH THE CAVEAT:

probably only 2nd to his brother Vitali

Posted October 18, 2012 11:18 am

Therefore, to anyone reading your post you are saying WLAD is the:

biggest, strongest, quickest, most skilled, and most lethal heavyweight champion of all time….

in your own words!!!!

Anyway, I disagree, but I will agree on LL – LENNOX LEWIS not being averse to bending the rules until they almost snapped…

LENNOX has a penchanz for holding and hitting – usually to introduce his uppercut,…. He would hold or lock the opponents arm with his left and fire in his uppercuts, or he would throw rabbit punches to the back of the head…

It is a warzone in there, but LENNOX did not always play by the MARQUIS of QUEENSBURY rules….

On his fight with VITALI he said he was only a round or 2 away from stopping VIT, as in LENNOX’S words he was blowing hard and ready to be taken….

I can’t find the transcript but I remember LENNOX sneering when he was questioned re VITALI!

Posted October 20, 2012 8:04 pm 


TARK

TJ…… Haye punched harder. Sanders nailed Wladimir smack on the chin with a lucky shot…and if you know Boxing you know there’s 500% more torque and head twisting if you nail somebody dead on the chin than high on the cheek—where Haye’s smashing shots landed … If you don’t nail a tough guy right on the button it’s very difficult to knock him out unless you beat him half to death like Robinson did to LaMotta. Robinson won only 1 of 4 fights versus Fullmer when he nailed Gene on the button with one (1) of over 2700 punches he threw in those 4 fights.

Posted October 20, 2012 6:26 pm 


TJ

TARK:

You wrote:

Haye’s performances against Wladimir and Chisora demonstates how far he’s come since that day. Facing the biggest, strongest, quickest, most skilled, and most lethal heavyweight champion of all time, probably only 2nd to his brother Vitali who KO’d 2 guys who KO’d Wladimir—Haye dodged most of the bombs meant to tear his head off, and caught Wladimir with the hardest shots he ever absorbed. If Haye found Wladimir’s chin it would have been a different outcome and you’d have heard the 10-count toll. Let’s see what happens when Haye has 2 healthy feet and they meet again …. Very VERY interesting because Wladimir may be 38 by that time.

Posted October 18, 2012 11:18 am

TWO things:

Do you honestly stand by your comment that WLAD is the best Heavyweight champion of ALL TIME and

You have confirmed my statement that by Haye rematching WLADIMIR possibly when WLAD will be 38 by that time (as you arote above), HAYE is an OPPORTUNIST extraordinaire!!!!

If Haye was so great he would’ve demanded an immediate rematch instead he slunk off with his tail between his legs after LYING to the whole world about how he would retire and not come back….

The whole world laughed at Haye and his supposed swollen toe, which has now gone down in boxing terminology!

All the time he was supposedly retired he was trying to negotiate huge paydays for himself behind the scenes, when he boasted to the world he would be the next ARNOLD SCHWARZENNEGER, SYLVESTER STALLONE & JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME all rolled into one (or is that none) as the next big Action Super star, with his so-called acting skills.

Instead of knuckling down and facing the top contenders Haye once again got himself into a situation, this time with fellow ASBO Wannabe Del Boy Dereck Chisora after almost destroying the venerable BBBC in the process….

Why does he not face the likes of a PULOV or even take on your mate PRICE who would severely test his whiskers (even tho’ I feel Price would be better off with half a dozen learning and testing bouts)????

HOW could HAYE have hit WLAD with the hardest shots he ever absorbed if WLAD was hammered to the canvas in less than 2 rounds by CORRIE SANDERS (RIP)???????

Posted October 20, 2012 7:59 am 


TJ

TARK:

You wrote:

Haye’s performances against Wladimir and Chisora demonstates how far he’s come since that day. Facing the biggest, strongest, quickest, most skilled, and most lethal heavyweight champion of all time, probably only 2nd to his brother Vitali who KO’d 2 guys who KO’d Wladimir—Haye dodged most of the bombs meant to tear his head off, and caught Wladimir with the hardest shots he ever absorbed. If Haye found Wladimir’s chin it would have been a different outcome and you’d have heard the 10-count toll. Let’s see what happens when Haye has 2 healthy feet and they meet again …. Very VERY interesting because Wladimir may be 38 by that time.

Posted October 18, 2012 11:18 am

TWO things:

Do you honestly stand by your comment that WLAD is the best Heavyweight champion of ALL TIME and

You have confirmed my statement that by Haye rematching WLADIMIR possibly when WLAD will be 38 by that time (as you arote above), HAYE is an OPPORTUNIST extraordinaire!!!!

If Haye was so great he would’ve demanded an immediate rematch instead he slunk off with his tail between his legs after LYING to the whole world about how he would retire and not come back….

The whole world laughed at Haye and his supposed swollen toe, which has now gone down in boxing terminology!

All the time he was supposedly retired he was trying to negotiate huge paydays fro him slef behind the scenes, when he boasted to the world he would be the next ARNOLD SCHWARZENNEGER, SYLVESTER STALLONE & JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME all rolled into one (or is that none) as the next big Action Super star, with his so-called acting skills.

Instead of knuckling down and facing the top contenders Haye once again got himself into a situation, this time with fellow ASBO Wannabe Del Boy Dereck Chisora after almost destroing the venerable BBBC in the process….

Why does he not face the likes of a PULOV or even take on your mate PRICE who would severly test his whiskers (even tho’ I feel Price would be better off with half a dozen learning and testing bouts)????

Posted October 20, 2012 7:53 am 


TARK

TJ… Your buddy kosciuszko is full of crap up to his eyeballs.. He said.., “The Charr fight was completely political; Charr was one of only a few fighters willing to fight Vitali in Ukraine” … The Vitali-Charr fight WASN’T fought in Ukraine it was fought in MOSCOW—that’s in Russia FYI… Very tourist and people friendly compared to the rowdy Ukraine. Any contender would have fought Vitali there including Haye.

Posted October 19, 2012 2:42 am 


TARK

Golota was blasted out in less than 2 minutes with Lewis, in less than 2 rounds with Tyson, and about 40 seconds with Lamon Brewster …. Bowe was scared to fight those killers

Posted October 19, 2012 2:40 am 


TARK

TJ… You say, “Bowe had all the tools to have become one of the all-time greats.” … WHAT freakin’ tools??? Bowe had sawdust between his ears so intelligence wasn’t an effective tool for him… He had no work ethic and showed up fat on fight night… Bowe lacked defensive cunning and took too many head shots, reducing his brain power fight by fight… Bowe lacked punching power, barely beating fat Tony Tubbs on points—Tubbs was a blob who Mike Tyson knocked out in 2 rounds… Bowe let the slow, clumsy cheater, Andrew Golota, intimidate him—and hit him in the nuts 16 times… Bowe was big and tall but so was Golota. Being tall doesn’t get you anywhere unless you have athletic ability and they didn’t… Golota lasted less than 2 minutes with Lewis, less than 2 rounds with Tyson, and about 40 seconds with Lamon Brewster …. Bowe was scared to fight those killers

Posted October 19, 2012 2:38 am 


TJ

TARK:

This chap below sums up what most of us feel about VITALI vs HAYE:

kosciuszko

I think a lot of you are very much underestimating the matchup between Vitali and Chisora, and letting this influence your judgements. Remember, Vitali tore a shoulder muscle in the third round, and still went the distance with a very good pressure fighter. Effectively, he fought one handed, and even at 40, beat Chisora relatively comfortably. At no point was he in any danger was he? The Charr fight was completely political; Charr was one of only a few fighters willing to fight Vitali in Ukraine, giving Vitali much needed press coverage in the run up to his election.
I think Haye could beat Vitali, he is certainly fast enough with a decent punch, but a fit Vitali, in my opinion, has far too much for Haye. He can fight 12 rounds for one, Haye opted for 10 rounds against Chisora, that tells you everything right there. Vitali is more awkward, has a granite jaw that the likes of Lewis couldn’t touch, and his punch, as Danny Williams put it ‘is like having a load of bricks thrown at your face’.
Vitali is very good at pushing his opponent around the ring, often off-balancing them, and then wading in. This tactic would work especially well against a much smaller and lighter opponent like Haye, who relies exclusively on his haymaker to do the damage. As Wlad showed, stay out the way of that, and there’s not much more in Haye’s locker.
I think Vitali would stick and move in the first half of the fight, and as Haye typically starts to tire, grind him down, before smashing him apart in the 10/11th.

Posted October 18, 2012 4:27 pm

Posted October 18, 2012 4:35 pm 


TJ

TARK:

Your comment below:

TARK

How can Vitali have more heart and fighting spirit than Haye when Haye crushed a guy with an iron chin—who went 12 rounds with Vitali??? That comment doesn’t make any sense.

Posted October 18, 2012 11:18 am

Are you talking about HAYE beating DELBOY, Dereck Chisaora????

VITALI had an injury, is 40 years old, has been boxing at the highest level since the days of LENNOX LEWIS and is entitled to not get the KO every so often!

One swallow doe not the Summer make!

Delboy didn’t throw any correct punches vs HAYE (he slapped like a schoolgirl), and in his haste smothered his own self when ever he worked his way into range….
He boxed like a novice and was made to pay….

I didn’t think much of either competitor to be quite honest.

your comment about BOWE makes me laugh….

DID NOT LENNOX get KTFO as you so graciously put it vs another man who had a mental breakdown in the ring of their rematch in OLIVER ATOMIC BULL McCALL????????

Yet, you praise Lennox yet ridicule BOWE…. Yes, Bowe let everyone down… He had all the tools to have become one of the alltime greats, but who knows what demons he carried round with him……

I would still wager BOWE in his prime would smash DAVID HAYE to bits as I would favour most of those that went before.

The real test is when HAYE eats one on the chin and he has to suck it up…

VITALI did vs LEWIS, BOWE did vs Golota, EVANDE did vs Smokin BERT COOPER, ALI vs FRAZIER, HOLMES vs NORTON, MR SNIPES and SHAVERS…..

BUT, WLAD and HAYE haven’t!!!!!

Evander was nearer 45 years old when he outboxed VALUEV, only to be cheated by the judges and David Haye saw the blueprint and copied it to get the W……

Posted October 18, 2012 3:46 pm 


TJ

TARK….

Good to see we are no longer insulting each other, but do you really, believe what you are saying about THE LIKES of HOLYFIELD, BOWE, HAGLER et al…

I contacted one of my good friends who is a leading boxing historian/ promoter/ former fighter and has his own boxing channel on the web and who knows much more than myself about the great fighters of old and the ones who were held back from breaking through that glass ceiling….

I raised your points about MARVELOUS MARVIN and he cannot see where you are coming from….

I seriously do not know if you truly believe what you are saying on these posts???

I actually find some of the stuff quite disturbing….

You really think WLAD is the best Heavyweight of all time and HAYE has more heart than VITALI?????

I like to have fun with people and root out what they do and don’t know, but your points are both mystifying and fascinating for how out of sync they are with just about 99.99% of teh boxing fraternity!

WLAD was smashed to bits by CORRIE SANDERS (RIP), was up and down like a yo-yo vs SAMUEL PETER who is only marginally quicker than a mummy and was hammered by LAMONT BREWSTER….

The Heayweights the K Brothers have eaten in their tenures of the crown have been average at best and I would wager would have been despatched just as effectively by the likes of a LARRY HOLMES, ALI, FOREMAN, BOWE, LEWIS, RAY MERCER, TYSON etc…..

Seriously, tell me you are joking about rating the K’s as teh best Heavies that ever lived and DAVID HAYE as a guy with the biggest heart in boxing?????

Posted October 18, 2012 3:32 pm 


TARK

How can Vitali have more heart and fighting spirit than Haye when Haye crushed a guy with an iron chin—who went 12 rounds with Vitali??? That comment doesn’t make any sense.

Holyfield was knocked down 3 times and KTFO by the pathetic, cowardly, mentally incompetent Bowe. How ridiculous is that??? Let me ask you. How many cowards would throw their heavyweight championship belt into a garbage can rather than face the most dangerous puncher in their division, like Bowe did??? And Holyfield lost twice to this pathetic soul.

Haye had 10 fights when he fought Carl Thompson. It was a case of Haye’s brain trust making a stupid, premature matchup because Haye didn’t know what the Hell he was doing yet. Haye probably would have won but they pulled him out rather than risk a massive haymaker finding it’s mark. That’s the right thing to do. Haye wasn’t down. I would have stopped it too because you don’t want to flush 50 million dollars down the toilet.

Haye’s performances against Wladimir and Chisora demonstates how far he’s come since that day. Facing the biggest, strongest, quickest, most skilled, and most lethal heavyweight champion of all time, probably only 2nd to his brother Vitali who KO’d 2 guys who KO’d Wladimir—Haye dodged most of the bombs meant to tear his head off, and caught Wladimir with the hardest shots he ever absorbed. If Haye found Wladimir’s chin it would have been a different outcome and you’d have heard the 10-count toll. Let’s see what happens when Haye has 2 healthy feet and they meet again …. Very VERY interesting because Wladimir may be 38 by that time.

Posted October 18, 2012 11:18 am 


TJ

TARK….

TYSON FURY says in today’s Boxing News that David Haye will never compete at his level. “I would destroy Haye in 4 rounds and he knows it!”

He says the future of the Heavyweights is himself and David Price. “No one else!”

Obviously FURY doesn’t think much of your boy!

Posted October 18, 2012 8:45 am 


TJ

TARK….

The Holyfield-Bowe trilogy gave us some of the best and most exciting action in a Heavyweight ring….

Bowe, who you’ve called a chicken showed tremendous guts and heart in taking those two shellackings at the hands of Golota…

If Haye had been taking those bombs he would have quit double time!

It’s fortynuante for him he is competing in possibly the WORST era of Heavyweight boxing!!!!

Posted October 18, 2012 2:34 am 


TJ

TARK….

You wrote:

TARK
Nobody’s going to outbox a healthy Haye—don’t be crazy—unless they have the greatest jab in fistic history like Wladimir… Holyfield was outboxed by sad, fat, stupid, lazy, crazy, cowardly, slovenly, sputtering, tongue tied Bowe… Ev was outboxed and floored by John Ruiz who Haye obliterated… Ev was outboxed by fat middleweight James Toney… Ev was outboxed by also-ran Larry Donald …. He lost 4 of 5 to Bowe and Lewis so he gets no credit for being a loser.

Posted October 17, 2012 4:33 pm

REALLY???? Really????? Really??????

The man has suspect stamina, crosses over his feet, when he tries to launch an attack vs someone on the ropes he stands square on, leaps off his feet and is seriously open to counters.

I would first wait until he faces a decent quality heavyweight before making that statement about Haye outboxing anyone….

Oh, dear…..

As I wrote eons ago, there are NO decent quality Heavyweights – including DAVID HAYE around……

The only quality Heavy is WLADIMIR, who I rate technically far above his brother VITALI, who has more heart and fighting spirit than WLAD & HAYE put together….

If ODLANIER SOLIS could get fit and in shape and in the ring a few more times, would be interesting to see him rematch Haye!

A few years ago we had MIKE PEREZ in our gyms, early in his career, hanging out with Carl Froch, fighting out of Ireland and UK, but not sure what’s happened to him since?

I believe he’s still unbeaten tho’

He needs to get a move on…..

But, on the whole, not one decent Heavyweight since possibly the late 1990′s!!!!

Posted October 18, 2012 2:31 am 


TJ

TARK:

You wrote:

TARK
If football players sit out from broken toes it also effects boxers who have to move… Haye was like Bradley he blocked out the pain… but unlike Bradley he couldn’t push off when he punched.

Posted October 17, 2012 4:37 pm

KINDA makes my point there….
DESERT STORM was up against it with not 1 but 2 blown out pins!

Therefore, my point and my question to you was WHY could the so-called monster MANNY PACQUIAO not smash right through this ‘handicapped’ man in Timothy Bradley???

Posted October 18, 2012 2:22 am 


TJ

I’m on predictI’ve text on my mobile.

Should read would have liked Johnny Nelson to have tested Hate at Cruiserweight.

Posted October 18, 2012 1:35 am 


TJ

TARK…

WHY did HAYE get bashed by CARL CAT THOMPSON who was 40 years old and far removed from his heyday as a good champ?

Would gave liked JOHNNY NELSON to have tested HAYE…

His fight vs RUIZ means nothing at all. Same as CHISORA who was dominated by fatboyslim TYSON FURY!!!

Posted October 18, 2012 1:33 am 


TARK

He did a lot better in his next fight. Smashing a guy who had never been floored before, even in title fights.

Posted October 17, 2012 4:39 pm 


TARK

If football players sit out from broken toes it also effects boxers who have to move… Haye was like Bradley he blocked out the pain…but unlike Bradley he couldn’t push off when he punched.

Posted October 17, 2012 4:37 pm 


TARK

Nobody’s going to outbox a healthy Haye—don’t be crazy—unless they have the greatest jab in fistic history like Wladimir… Holyfield was outboxed by sad, fat, stupid, lazy, crazy, cowardly, slovenly, sputtering, tongue tied Bowe… Ev was outboxed and floored by John Ruiz who Haye obliterated… Ev was outboxed by fat middleweight James Toney… Ev was outboxed by also-ran Larry Donald …. He lost 4 of 5 to Bowe and Lewis so he gets no credit for being a loser.

Posted October 17, 2012 4:33 pm 


TJ

TARK

sal.o wrote:

I can name you 50 fighters at 210 lbs with bigger balls then Haye ,,remember his saying ,,i couldnt fight because of my sore toe…

Posted October 16, 2012 1:45 am

You have not responded to him yet….
just letting you know!

Posted October 17, 2012 3:18 pm 


TJ

TARK…..

I see no apology from you then re Bradders…..

My lawyers are on the case and expect a subpoena, for you are guilty as charged!

Posted October 17, 2012 3:16 pm 


TJ

TARK

You wrote:

That’s right…. Bradley fought right through the pain and fought well… Only not nearly as well as Pacquiao who five elite judges reviewing the fight unanimously scored Pacquiao the winner. The fight was reviewed extensively because of the lousy decision and the result of the review was published all over the web.. The stories all called it one of the worst decisions of all time…

Posted October 17, 2012 11:27 am

YOU KEEP MISSING THE POINT!!!!!!!

An elite level fighter such as Pacman should be able to smash to pieces a man handicapped with two busted feet ,
but in fact it was DESERT STORM who finished the stronger and Pacman only got going in the last half minute of the rounds!

Your so-called ace-in–the-hole is burning out, fast!!!!!

Posted October 17, 2012 3:13 pm 


TJ

TARK….

LENNOX LEWIS was knocked cold twice, by both OLIVER ATOMIC BULL McCALL and HASIM THE ROCK RAHMAN….

You bow down and worship the so-called LION and then dismiss Evander????

Your logic defies belief!!!!!

Posted October 17, 2012 3:10 pm 


TJ

You was lyrical about him,

Should read you wax lyrical about him

Posted October 17, 2012 3:07 pm 


TJ

TARK….

The only good thing HAYE has going for him is his trainer ADAM BOOTH, who I rate…

Booth is very calm and knowledgeable in the corner between rounds and has done a great job with GEORGE GROVES, who by the way is a perfect gentleman and a positive advert for the game unlike DAVID HAYE, holding up severed heads of the Klitschko’s, telling AUDLEY HARRISON that their fight would be akin to a GANG RAPE (totally repellant man was asked if he would like to apologise for that offensive comment on at least 3 occasions, including on RADIO 5 LIVE and he laughed and refused each time)

How would he like it if his wife was gang-raped (no, I don’t think he would)?????

Vile, disgusting man then uses what looks like a glass bottle to defend himself vs Del Boy Chisora in that farce in Germany, where he moved so quickly on his broken toe, he looked more like USAIN BOLT than long John Silver!!!!!

They then try to destroy the BBBC in order to get their silly tiff on, running to the LUXEMBOURG boxing authorities to get their grubby hands on punters cash!!!!

As I said Wideboy David Haye is an opportunist.

Oh, yes and he was as sloppy as hell vs Ruiz and Del Boy….

You was lyrical about him, but he has bad balance and movement and will be easily outboxed by boxers with sound fundamentals who avoid rushing in….

Posted October 17, 2012 3:06 pm 


TJ

TARK…

The difference is HOLYFIELD fought them all in their PRIMES…

HAYE fought RUIZ who must have been late 30′s (38 years old) and nearly 50 fights into his career…..

What’s Haye’s record 26-2?
how many Cruiserweight defences did he make?

How many Heavyweight defences?

Come on man! Ruiz was just about done when he fought Haye…..

CARL THE CAT THOMPSON was nearly 40 years old when he whupped David Haye….

Where are your excuses for that????

Haye was an England amateur international who was whupped by ODLANIER SOLIS in the final of the WORLD’S before they both turned pro at HEAVYWEIGHT…..

Therefore, David Haye is more of a natural Heavyweight than Holyfield who competed as an amateur LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT…..

I’m still astounded TARK as you have now classed MUHAMMAD ALI, EVANDER HOLYFIELD & MARVELOUS MARVIN HAGLER as well as THOMAS HEARNS as overrated…..

The mind boggles….. Yet, you rate DAVID HAYE as some sort of svaiour when who has he beaten?????

JEAN-MARC MORMECK (a good win in France), at the tail-end of his career, ENZO MACCARINELLI (Big Macc – Give me a break, okay puncher but chinnier than Amir Khan), NICOLAI VALUEV (poor excuse for a Heavyweight – a man of 23 stones, who punches the weight of a 7 stone weakling)! and Del Boy Chisora, who got beat by Tyson Fury…..

Oh, yes I forgot AUDLEY HARRISON….

OMG, Haye must be the best Heavyweight who ever breathed breath!!! LMAO!!!!!!

That really is an impressive ledger…..

Oh yes, we forgot, if it hadn’t been for the pain of his little toe he would have given WLAD a boxing lesson….

Yeah right!

HAYE is ever the opportunist and only takes fights when he’s sure the other guy has in boxing terms “one foot in the grave!”

PLEASE, give me a break!

Posted October 17, 2012 2:53 pm 


TARK

That’s right…. Bradley fought right through the pain and fought well… Only not nearly as well as Pacquiao who five elite judges reviewing the fight unanimously scored Pacquiao the winner. The fight was reviewed extensively because of the lousy decision and the result of the review was published all over the web.. The stories all called it one of the worst decisions of all time…

Posted October 17, 2012 11:27 am 


TJ

FORGOT to write, STEVE McCRORY (RIP)…
Being a fan of TOMMY HEARNS, I supported the whole KRONK Team of the likes of HILMER KENTY, DUANE THOMAS, JIMMY PAUL, LEEONZER BARBER, MICHAEL MOORER, the McCRORY brothers, the TATES etc….

But, I had a particular affinity for little Steve as along with the likes of CARBAJAL America didn’t really have any little guys they got behind although the US had a great fighter in JOLTIN JEFF CHANDLER at Bantamweight!

I was saddened to hear a few years ago Steve had passed away.

Posted October 17, 2012 2:36 am 


TJ

Excuse the spelling mistakes as I’m writing this on the go on way to work!

Posted October 17, 2012 2:28 am 


TJ

TARK….

EVANDER was a Cruiserweight, when they only weighed around 185-190lbs and not the 200lbs of today’s big boys!

EVANDER fought BOWE Trilogy, TYSON twice, LENNOX LEWIS twice at Heavyweight more or less in their primes

He fought Dwight Muhammad Qawi twice at Cruiserweight

He was a shoe-in for Olympic Gold until he hit KEVIN BARRY (NZ) on the break

(1984 was the first Olympics I watched and Holyfield, Sweet Pea and STEVE McCRORY stood out for me amongst all the gems that year)!

He’s bee around too long but also fought another old school great fighter in LIGHTS OUT Toney, althoug he lost.

HOLYFIELD’S ledger is far greater than DAVID Wide Boy HAYE’s will ever be!

I wouldn’t even put them in the same league….

NEVER!!!!!

HAYE is a world champion at talking his way into big money fights!

Posted October 17, 2012 2:27 am 


TJ

TARK…

Once again you have ducked the issue of slagging off MUHAMMAD ALI only to once again attack HAGLEr, without addressing my issues re yiur hero DANIEL GEALE…

Simple and easy response to your DAVID HAYE conundrum is EVANDER HOLYFIELD

EVANDER HOLYFIELD was the best Cruiserweight ever – his war with Dwight Braxton (Muhammad Qawi) was one of the greatest fights of recent generations…

HOLYFIELD easily defeated the average BEAST FROM THE EAST only to be robbed by the judges on all scorecards, perhaps 2 years before Haye took him on.

EVANDER gave Haye the blueprint from which to beat VALUEV, who FYI will never be ranked in the TOP 50 Heavyweight Champions—-

NEVER!!!

Posted October 17, 2012 2:11 am 


TARK

Don’t tell me about sprained ankles.. That was one ankle NOT 2 you liar.. Tim said, “I fought right through that ankle. It didn’t bother me a bit.” He didn’t lose that fight because of injury he lost because Pac boxed his ears off.. Bradley was an undefeated 2-Division World Champion who never came close to being beaten before — not like Hagler who lost to chumps and couldn’t dispatch China-chinned Marcos Geraldo who’d been KO’d at least 10 times before. Hagler couldn’t floor an elderly Brisoce who was taken out years earlier by one shot from Rodrigo Valdez—who Hagler was super lucky he never had to fight. Also, Hagler was lucky he never had to fight Carlos Monzon who would have smashed him through the floorboards.. Haye is an ATG World Cruiserweight Champion.. Name another cruiser who beat a 7’2″X330 pound giant with a 50-1 record to win the Heavyweight Championship.. None beat anyone that size.. Haye may have lsot to Wladimir but he put some serious shots on Wladimir’s cheeks that knocked sweat into the 3rd row of seats. You could see the swelling on WK’s face. Haye absorbed some massive right handers and went the 12 round …. Pacquiao beat ATG’s Barrera, Morales, Marquez, De La Hoya, Mosley, and Cotto, and may even fight Sergio Martinez, you can never tell.. Hagler never beat a natrual middleweight who was close to being an ATG … Pacquiao was a natural flyweight who built himself up and beat guys 40 pounds heavier. He is definitely going to fight Mayweather before he’s done.

Posted October 16, 2012 9:13 pm 


TJ

TARK…..

You need to grow up….

You wrote:

Right TJ…you can name dozens of 210-pounders who YOU CLAIM have more courage than Haye.. He had a bad injury and it cost him a fight. Big deal, he lost to a great heavyweight who was much bigger, stronger, and taller. You can’t name better or more skilled boxers at 210 than Haye.

HAYE’s toe-injury was (in your own words), no shakes….

KING ARTHUR ABRAHAM fought EL PANTERA in their first fight for about 8 rounds with a badly broken and swollen jaw, just like Ali did and he won in defence of his IBF Middleweight crown….

DESERT STORM fought on for about 7/8 rounds with not 1, but 2 blown out ankles vs your idol, Mr.Godzilla himself, Manny Pacquiao and was never in any danger of being stopped….

DANNY WILLIAMS fought and KO’d Mark Potter a few years back after suffering a dislocated shoulder, we all saw it hanging by his side and he beat Potter with one good hand….

there are several more examples of people overcoming adversity in the ring.

The difference with HAYE was he as per usual mouthed off like the ASBO wannabe he is and when it came to fight time he ran like a thief on his chicken-toe and barely troubled WLAD who you label great, yet has been smashed to pieces by CORRIE SANDERS (RIP), floored multiple times (at least twice by Nigerian Nightmare SAMUEL PETER, quit in another earlier fight and got done by LAMON BREWSTER…..

Don’t get me wrong, I like the Klits, but for you to call them ATG and slag off Norton and Ali, you really need to get your own house in order……

Even your man LENNOX has been bowled over twice in more or less one-punch KO’S and you slag of Hearns and Co for the same thing….

TARK, you need to fix up, because you are F****ng up at every turn…..

Posted October 16, 2012 3:21 pm 


TJ

Spelling correction:

The exception and not exeption.

Posted October 16, 2012 3:04 pm 


TJ

TARK:

You wrote:

You’re crazy to claim Ali would be bigger, taller, and stronger today after a 197-pound novice like Leon pounded him—and an uncoordinated China-chinned blooping swinger like Norton broke his jaw and beat the crap out him when he was only 31. Ali looks pathetic today because his lack of defensive skills didn’t serve him well …

Posted October 16, 2012 11:22 am

It’s funny isn’t it that when you compare the average top line Heavyweight of the 70′s and early 80′s – they would be around 6’3″ and around 215-225lbs….

FFWD 30 odd years and to be honest it is the EXEPTION ,rather than the norm for a Heavyweight to make it weighing less than 240+ and standing less than 6’6″…..

TARK , I am backing up my arguments with proper facts, and not resorting to the name calling you have been doing and BTW, what is a puzzy, you called me earlier in the piece…. I would seriously like to know…..

TARK, you havfe never backed up anything with factual information, just fabricated nonsense from the recesses of your mind….

TARK, I won’t even dignify your comments re MUHAMMAD ALI with a response…..

You should get down on your knees and beg the whole world for an apology for rubbishing one of the finest showmen to ever grace GOD’S beautiful Earth and scorning at his current state – You are a total piece of garbage, who would make the world a better place if you just vanished….

MUHAMMAD ALI did more for human rights in one night than you have done in your entire 60 years on this planet…..

He stood up to the might of the US and stood his ground, refusing to fight an unjust war against a people he had no quarrel with….

He lost 3 years of his career for having conviction, faith and standing up for his beliefs.

He was no coward or charlatan in or outside the ring.

FYI it only takes one punch to end up in a bad way… The majority of boxers who enter the squared circle if they box for long enough will end up with some sort of symptoms of pugilistic dementia….
they do this to entertain hard hearted people like yourself with no empathy for other people or even for the game itself.

You sound like a bitter, bitter man who really needs to get out and find happiness.

So Leon Spinks 1976 Olympic Champion, World Heavyweight Champion and if I’m not mistaken held a version of the Cruiserweight title is no shakes???

What destroyed NEON LEON’S career was a taste for the highlife and drugs as he himself admitted….

You’re a disgrace for describing KEN NORTON as a blooping swinger…….
The man ran ALI close everytime they fought and had a classic with LARRY HOLMES in ’79…..

I seriously doubt you are a boxing fan…….

WORDS TRULY FAIL ME!!!!

Posted October 16, 2012 3:03 pm 


TJ

TARK….

According to your warped logic then, double world Middleweight Champion DANIEL GEALE should be too big, too strong for MARVELOUS MARVIN HAGLER as now we are in 2012 we are about 27 years removed from Hagler’s heyday…

More than a generation has passed since he fought the likes of THOMAS HEARNS, ROBERTO DURAN and SUGAR RAY LEONARD….

A generation where we have discovered GM foods, growth hormones in foods, processed foods to the Nth degree, power pills, STRENGTH & CONDITIONING coaches, SPORTS SCIENTISTS, HYPNOTHERAPISTS, gyms-in-a-box, get-fit-in-a-week pills, E.P.O., blood transfusions to increase oxygen intake in blood just before performances, P.E.D.S. and any other Next Big Thing designed to make us younger, stronger, fitter, bigger, sharper, better, faster, longer, higher…..

So, according to you DANIEL GEALE, 2012 will beat MARVELOUS MARVIN of 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985?????

Yeah, right!

MARVELOUS MARVIN would walk right through Geale after giving him the beating of his life, smash him up and then go out and play tennis….

Your warped logic that guys from this period can just turn up and beat some of THE ALL TIME GREATS of any era truly astounds me…..

It just doesn’t work like that!!!!!

It’s all about levels and Hagler is on a whole ‘nother plateau to Mr. Geale.

It’s all about the SKILLSETs, EXPERIENCE, GROUNDING, BIG TIME FIGHT EXPERIENCE, RING INTELLIGENCE, TEMPERAMENT and WILL & DESIRE….

These guys had literally nothing if they lost whereas today, these guys are earning phenomenal amounts in comparison, sitting back waiting for their PPV dates to materialise…..

Most of these guys would be lucky to get into the top 15 of the rankings let alone win titles…..

I await your response!!!!!

Posted October 16, 2012 2:44 pm 


TJ

TARK…

So, now you are proclaiming DAVID HAYE as an ATG???

Seriously, words truly fail me.
Haye would not have even got a title shot if he had campaigned in 70s or 80s.

This defensive genius was hammered by CAT Carl Thompson and floored by a blown up Middleweight!

OMG! Your level of boxing knowledge is seriously retarded on your revisionist agenda!

Defensive skills???? OMG!

TARK…. Seriously? Are you for real fella?

Really? Really?

Posted October 16, 2012 12:22 pm 


TARK

Right TJ…you can name dozens of 210-pounders who YOU CLAIM have more courage than Haye.. He had a bad injury and it cost him a fight. Big deal, he lost to a great heavyweight who was much bigger, stronger, and taller. You can’t name better or more skilled boxers at 210 than Haye. You have degenerated into a name calling puzzy… You’re crazy to claim Ali would be bigger, taller, and stronger today after a 197-pound novice like Leon pounded him—and an uncoordinated China-chinned blooping swinger like Norton broke his jaw and beat the crap out him when he was only 31. Ali looks pathetic today because his lack of defensive skills didn’t serve him well … That’s like saying Wilt Chamberlain would be 9’6″ if he were around today because the human race has evolved in one generation. How big would Nonito Donaire be if he were born a hundred years from now??? Same size dufus …. You’re just stupid, biased, ignorant, petty, and a time waster.

Posted October 16, 2012 11:22 am 


TJ

TARK…. I laid out literally DOZENS upon DOZENS of great fighters from all through the weight divisions from the Orient through to Africa in the 80′s and you cherry pick MARVIN HAGLER to try to discredit the fighters of the 1980′s…

You may be an old man, but you are clearly an OLD FOOL….

The boxers of the 1980′s were a far better crop than today!!!!

Any fan of boxing will tell you this…..

RE your rebuttal GENETICS plays a part in fighters being bigger in today’s climate (but not better)….

SKILLS separate the great from the good, and today we can literally count how many great boxers there are on one hand!!!!

People get bigger, but if the likes of Ali etc was 35 years old today he would be 6’6″ and 240-250 pounds etc and he would batter the likes of a Haye or Klitschko….

Or you take the fighters of today back into the 60′s, 70′s etc and they would be smaller, have to weigh in same day and would not have the same access to sports science etc and YOU TUBE to study an opponent meticulously as they do today…..

Any idiot knows this….

You take a fighter to the same time period and they would have access or not have access to the same equipment in that same era……

Anyway, having been ringside at WALKER SMITH and Rocky Marciano fights, you should know this???

Posted October 16, 2012 3:00 am 


TJ

TARK…. I’m glad I’m getting to you…. TRUTH HURTS, doesn’t it????

The more you call me names and mouth off the closer we are getting to exposing The Great TARK as a myth in his own bedroom….

Your joke commnt re DAVID HAYE, Mr. Toejob made me snort with laughter….

Most of the greats of yesteryear fought at under or around 215 in their heydays…

Look at Larry Holmes as an example or Mike Tyson at his peak!!!!

Nuff said!

Posted October 16, 2012 2:50 am 


TJ

TARK…. For a man who says he dined with Walker Smith and Rocky Marciano you show absolutely no manners, nor wisdom for such an aged gentleman…

In fact the older you get the more ignorant you have become… I take it you must be in your late 60s or early 70s, but you are less WISE but more DUMB in your approach to your comments on here.

I quoted you VERBATIM re your proclamation of a Mayweather vs Pac trilogy, so how can I be the liar????

You are hoisting your own self by your own petard methinks….

Facts are you insulted me first as I mereley pointed out how mistaken you were in insulting Thomas Hitman Hearns.

But, the fact you have been on this site for years bullying anyone who disagrees with ypu shows what sort of a dinosaur you are and the sooner you are extinct or put out to pasture – whichever comes first, I don’t really care, then the better for all of us true supporters of teh noble art.

Posted October 16, 2012 2:17 am 


sal.o

I can name you 50 fighters at 210 lbs with bigger balls then Haye ,,remember his saying ,,i couldnt fight because of my sore toe…

Posted October 16, 2012 1:45 am 


TARK

And you called me names first jackass…

Posted October 15, 2012 6:11 pm 


TARK

BTW…name any 210-pounders in Boxing History who combined slicker defensive skills, better hand and foot speed, with better KO power in both hands than David Haye possesses… If you don’t think Haye is good you’re a nut case, and I guess you are.

Posted October 15, 2012 6:08 pm 


TARK

TJ…. You’re completely ingnorant and stupid.. No fight with Rios has been signed for Pac.. Floyd fought in almost every month of the year, so May ISN’T his month, don’t be a foolish simpleton and listen to Box, you dumb bunny.. My point was that EVERY fighter fights past-his-prime opposition at times—and picks his spots.. Sugar Ray Robinson fought Ralph Jones when Jones was on a 5-fight losing streak to fighters you never heard of.. Jones beat the living crap out of Robinson regardless… Ali fought Leon Spinks—who had only 7 fights—when Larry Holmes was the best heavyweight on the planet… They all fight soft opponents at times, so don’t single out Pac.

Posted October 15, 2012 5:59 pm 


TJ

TARK:

TARK….

I laid out literally DOZENS upon DOZENS and DOZENS of great fighters from all through the weight divisions from the Orient through to Africa in the 80′s and you cherry pick MARVIN HAGLER to try to discredit the fighters of the 1980′s…

You may be an old man, but you are clearly an OLD FOOL….A foolish fool….

The boxers of the 1980′s were a far better crop than today!!!!

Any fan of boxing will tell you this…..

RE your rebuttal, GENETICS plays a part in fighters being bigger in today’s climate (but not better)….

SKILLS separate the great from the good, and today we can literally count how many great boxers there are on one hand!!!!

People get bigger, but if the likes of ALI, HOLMES, etc was 30 years old today he would be 6’6″ and 240-250 pounds etc and he would batter the likes of a Haye or Klitschko….

Skill for skill, these guys were on a HIGHER LEVEL and the competition was fierce.

Or you take the fighters of today back into the 60′s, 70′s etc and they would be smaller, have to weigh in same-day and would not have the same access to sports science etc and YOU TUBE to study an opponent meticulously as they do today…..

Any idiot knows this….

You take a fighter to the same time period and they would have access or not have access to the same equipment in that same era……

Anyway, having been ringside at WALKER SMITH and ROCKY MARCIANO fights, you should know this???

Posted October 15, 2012 3:59 pm 


TJ

TARK…. I’m trying to respond to all your points you’re raising but this site is only piblishing half of them…. Will use my mobile to respond to your David Haye comment….

See, I don’t cherry pick what I answer, like you do!

Posted October 15, 2012 3:34 pm 


TJ

TARK, I’ve tried to anwer your ridiculous statements re DAVID HAYE and the greats of the 70′s and 80′s, but this site is not publishing it, so I will try and do it from my mobile phone later….

Posted October 15, 2012 3:30 pm 


TJ

TARK says:

TARK

Charles was WAAAAAY past his best when he fought Marciano…

Posted October 15, 2012 1:28 pm

Well SUGAR SHANE MOSLEY was way past his best when he fought Manny Pacquiao… He was coming off one of his worst career performances vs SERGIO MORA, the Latin Snake for goodness sake….

It was clear to all he had no legs and was just about done…. But 24/7 packaged this as a competitive fight when all the real fans of boxing knew this was a mismatch with a 40 year old who had no right being in the ring that night!!!!!

The words Hypocrisy and TARK go very well together!!!!

Posted October 15, 2012 3:27 pm 


TJ

@ TARK….

I laid out literally DOZENS upon DOZENS and DOZENS of great fighters from all through the weight divisions from the Orient through to Africa in the 80′s and you cherry pick MARVIN HAGLER to try to discredit the fighters of the 1980′s…

Once again you swerved all those tough divisions such as Light Heavy, Jnr Lightweight, Welterweight etc….

You may be an old man, but you are clearly an OLD FOOL….A foolish fool….

The boxers of the 1980′s were a far better crop than today!!!!

Any fan of boxing will tell you this…..

RE your rebuttal, GENETICS plays a part in fighters being bigger in today’s climate (but not better)….

SKILLS separate the great from the good, and today we can literally count how many great boxers there are on one hand!!!!

People get bigger, but if the likes of ALI, HOLMES, etc was 30 years old today he would be 6’6″ and 240-250 pounds etc and he would batter the likes of a Haye or Klitschko….

Skill for skill, these guys were on a HIGHER LEVEL and the competition was fierce.

Or you take the fighters of today back into the 60′s, 70′s etc and they would be smaller, have to weigh in same-day and would not have the same access to sports science etc and YOU TUBE to study an opponent meticulously as they do today…..

Any idiot knows this….

You take a fighter to the same time period and they would have access or not have access to the same equipment in that same era……

Anyway, having been ringside at WALKER SMITH and ROCKY MARCIANO fights, you should know this???

Posted October 15, 2012 3:23 pm 


TJ

TARK:

You wrote:

TARK

Pacquiao is thinking 2 more fights: JMM and FMJ. Arum is thinking 4 mroe fights. After the quad with JMM Arum is hoping for a trilogy with Floyd… That would take it through 2014 … Might as well milk the May-Pac phenomena for as long as humanly possible.

Posted October 12, 2012 1:16 am

Boxtradamus

TARK- You’ve lost grip on REALITY the last couple of years. Wake UP and smell the coffee. There’s no trilogy with Mayweather coming. Mayweather Fights in May. Pacquiao’s promoter SAID that he’s Fighting in April to intentionally make it impossible for him to Fight in May which everyone (except YOU) knows is when Mayweather likes to Fight.

Posted October 12, 2012 4:16 am

BOXTRADAMUS, I couldn’t have put it any better than you mate….

This TARK is clearly senile or demented or perhaps he is both senile and demented!!!!!

Posted October 15, 2012 3:17 pm 


TJ

TARK… Just shows the type of HYPOCRITE you are….

You cannot face the truth so you now start calling me names… cool…..

Be like that but face the truth that you are a HYPOCRITE who talks nonsense and cherry picks all of your comments….

You wrote:

Hagler fought challengers from lighter weights who hadn’t beaten any ranked middleweights, and only fought once a year, getting his ass kicked by a Welterweight who hadn’t fought in 3 years, rather than facing McCallum, Nunn, Graham etc.

Posted October 15, 2012 1:25 pm

Pacquiao, your idol in his last three fights has fought a Light Welterweight stepping up, a LIGHTWEIGHT stepping up (39 years old) and a 40 year old who had no business being in the same ring as him……

You dismiss HAGLER for doing tis in the mid 80′s….

We are now in the 2010′s?????

You misguided HYPOCRITE….

Can you not see how you are digging your own grave with your stupid attacks back at me!!!!!

I will ambush you art every turn and use your own words against you…. HYPOCRITE!!!!

Posted October 15, 2012 2:41 pm 


TARK

…. If Pac fights Rios next it could mean he’s cutting Floyd out after beating him in the courts. Maybe he’s still pissed at Floyd. I was giving a possible scenario you moron. I don’t manage Pac’s career. A Mayweather-Pacquiao trilogy would be a bonanza for both fighters and they’re stupid if they don’t do it.

Posted October 15, 2012 1:30 pm 


TARK

Charles was WAAAAAY past his best when he fought Marciano… Charles was suffering from early symptoms of ALS, the disease that took his life at an early age… Charles lost to Light Heavyweight Harold Johnson and slow clumsy heavyweight Nino Valdes the year before he fought Rocky. so Charlie Goldman knew he was a safe opponent. In fact most all of the “heavyweight” contenders Marciano fought were really LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS.

Posted October 15, 2012 1:28 pm 


TARK

TJ says…, “In the 1980’s they had to face guys based on merit.” Merit??? Not so Dumbo.. The fight before Ray Leonard knocked him out Hearns defended his verson of the WW title against Pablo Baez, a bum with 10 wins in 21 fights.. In his last 3 years as champion, 1985, 86, and 87 Hagler didn’t fight any middleweight contenders at all except a political number one in Mugabi who was a 154-pounder. Hagler fought challengers from lighter weights who hadn’t beaten any ranked middleweights, and only fought once a year, getting his ass kicked by a Welterweight who hadn’t fought in 3 years, rather than facing McCallum, Nunn, Graham etc.

Posted October 15, 2012 1:25 pm 


TJ

Meant WILFRED BENITEZ, not Wilfredo!

Posted October 15, 2012 3:12 am 


TJ

TARK… You really need to give yourself a few slaps (as Dereck Chisora once said) for your comment about boxing being worldwide these days and not back in th 1980’s…

YES, we have more countries as the Eastern European region has been opened up, but that doesn’t necessarily improve the standard… Just opens it up to more of what we are seeing today – hometowners, padded records and so on and so forth.

Boxing has always been worldwide…

In fact it was more fair wide in the 1980s, the 1990’s than it is today.

We didn’t have TV companies telling fighters who they could or couldn’t fight… They had to fight the ranked guys on merit and with only 2 titles up until the mid 1980’s available it was a lot fairer.

We had proper rankings where being British, European, Commonweath, OPBF, NABF, USBA, Latino FECARBOX Champion actually meant something because it got you a world ranking…

Therefore, a champion of one of these organisations was usually a good , tough quality opponent and merited his world ranking!!!!

Dig out any Ring Magazine copy around this period and just look at the wealth of boxers from all around the globe to see how boxing was world wide back then.

I’m on the move at the moment so don’t have one to hand, but from memory I will list the boxers that inspired me from this period:

1982/1983: AZUMAH NELSON, JEFF FENECH, WILFREDO GOMEZ, WILFREDO BENITEZ, JIRO WATANABE, SUNG-KIL MOON, KHAIOSI GALAXY, SOT CHITALADA, LUIGI MINCHILLO, JOHN MUGABI, CHARLIE MAGRI, MIKE McCALLUM, EUSEBIO PEDROZA, SANTOS LACIAR, KIRKLAND LAING, FULGENCIO OBELMEJIAS, ELEONCIO MERCEDES, and later the likes of LIVINGSTONE BRAMBLE,
FIDEL BASSA, JUAN LaPORTE, EDWIN ROSARIO, SAOUL MAMBY, BOBBY CHACON(yes, I know he was from Bakersfield, California), CORNELIUS BOZA-EDWARDS, HECTOR CAMACHO, JOSE LUIS RAMIREZ, RAFAEL BAZOOKA LIMON, ROLANDO NAVARETTE… just to name a few…. The list is endless and it is vastly superior to today’s patsies!!!!!

The last few guys at Jnr Lightweight had some of the best wars and FOTY in the early-mid 80’s … BOZA, CHACON, LIMON, NAVARETTE

I am from London, England not the U.S. and I know how worldwide the game has always been as you can see from the ledgers of all the great champions and the nationalities of their challengers.

The only difference is that the standard of boxing in the US has declined – so hence not enough U.S. challengers of a decent calibre (which happens cyclically in all sports)… therefore, it seems that the swing has gone from a strong US presence in many divisions to little or none…
The other reason is more foreign boxers are domiciled in the U.S. and hence the US fans have taken to them and are backing them, therefore the TV companies are following suit…. NONITO DONAIRE, MANNY PACQUIAO are examples of boxers who either live or train out of the US and because the world has shrunk communications wise (internet etc – you TUBE) we are more aware of the likes of a YURIORKIS GAMBOA, a RICKY HATTON than 30 years ago, which goes without saying.

Posted October 15, 2012 3:06 am 


TARK

As for the rest of your made up BS about Pacquiao, it’s a bunch of crap… Pacquiao was voted the fighter of the previous decade and reigned as the world’s number one P4P fighter for many years…in between reigns by Floyd Mayweather Jr… Everybody knows these are the 2 best fighters in the world and maybe the beat of all time.. And fighters are getting better not worse.. A large slice of the world wasn’t even allowed to compete in professional boxing when Hearns and most of the guys who knocked him out were fighting.. They didn’t have to face worldwide competition. Boxing has spread like wild fire. There are more boxers from more countries than ever, and athletes in general are getting bigger, stronger, faster, and better.. Just so you know — you have a massive generational bias old man.. And although I have the mental and physical energy and health of a young man, I’ve been in Boxing since the 1950′s and watched Marciano and Robinson fight live.

Posted October 14, 2012 7:12 pm 


TARK

Right TJ.. Hill wsa no great shakes.. That’s why Roy put him out with one shot.. Even the shrinking wiolet Dariousz Michalczewski beat Hill.. Remember DM??? The guy who refused to fight Jones, Tarver, Hopkins, or even Clinton Woods.. DM did agree to fight 2nd raters Virgil Hill and Julio Gonzalez — DM beat Hill, but the super slow and inept Gonzalez beat DM in Germany.

Posted October 14, 2012 7:00 pm 


TJ

TARK….

You really a re a delude young boy…

Your quote below:

Roy Jones knocked featherpunching Virgil Hills stiff with one shot so he was no great shakes.

Posted October 14, 2012 2:14 am

VIRGIL HILL represented in the 1984 Olympics (SILVER) , a 2 time World Light Heavyweight champion with multiple defences in both reigs and you call him no-shakes….

A feather fisted boxer who had over fifty bouts when boxing actually meant something and you call him no shakes????

You need to get off this site as your love for PAC is exposing you for the Charlatan you really are!!!!!!

You are very BITTER, exceedingly TWISTED and need to find a sport that you actually comprehend and can keep up with like checkers!

OH, yes…. Do you not think a peak Roy Jones (OLYMPIAN, 1988) would not have despatched PAC in less than 3-4 rounds in his M’Weight days also????

It would have been a mismatch with Roy’s blinding handspeed and awesome footwork…..

No contest whatsoever!

Posted October 14, 2012 4:42 am 


TJ

TARK…..

OMG!!!! OMD!!!!!

Are you really for real??? Really????

You quote below:

You continue to fudge on ages… Marquez was 38 when he was whipped for the 2nd time by Pacquiao.. Mosley was old, but he smashed Margarito when he was old as well.. Mora didn’t school Shane or give Shane a boxing lesson–that fight was a draw.. Bradley had a badly sprained ankle but it didn’t hobble him any.. He moved well on it and was completely outscored by over 100 punches.. Pacquiao certainly didn’t do badly vs Bradley, but the judges did.
Posted October 14, 2012 2:24 am

WHERE do I start???? Marquez was whupped for 2nd time vs PAC???? Are you for real???

The whole world knows that PAC lost that bout…. Check out the 2nd bout and Pac’s first win and you will see the surprise on PAC’s face when he get’s the W over DINAMITA…. It’s there on the video for all to see!!!!

You really think Mosley was not given a schooling by MORA???? Mora was recently beaten by his contender rival Bryan Vera… that shows the real level Mora should be placed at….. MOSLEY could do nothing with him and it was clear to all that his days as a top level fighter were clearly over….

This is why PAC jumped at the opportunity to beat a name….

Only the BRAINWASHED FOLLOWERS of which you are fell for the 24/7 comments by Sugar shane on how he was going to beat PAC, whilst it was clear to all he had little to no chance of competing, which was borne out in the bout….

But PAC showed next to nothing vs a virtual moving punchbag for 12 rounds.

With 2 blown out ankles, it is almost impossible to get any sort of leverage with your punches or proper movement… Yes, you can still compete through the pain, but that’s about it,….

You can compete with a broken hand (HEARNS), broken jaw (ABRAHAM) etc… It seems the only thing you cannot compete with is a broken toe (DAVID HAYE – jokes)!

An ELITE level fighter with which PACMAN is shouldbe able to blast out a man with blown out ankles….

You call him an ATG…..

Well when was his last ATG performance????

I will answer that for you as it would take too long to wait for your answer…..

It was vs a weight-weakened MIGUEL COTTO who had looked shaky at best vs both Joshua Clottey (who managed to snatch defeat from out the jaws of victory in their bout) and Michael Jennings in his subsequent bouts post MARGARITO debacle!!!!

After 10 attempts you have given the most feeble of anwers to my question re a 40 year old, a 39 year old and a man with not 1 but TWO blown out ankles!!!!

You must feel very proud of yourself!!!

Posted October 14, 2012 4:29 am 


TJ

TARK = World’s biggest liar and hypocrite!!!!

You insulted me in your recent reply as per below:

“TJ…. You’re an insulting jerk who has no knowledge of Boxing. I never said Hearns had no skills.”
Posted October 14, 2012 2:14 am

BUT, if you look and read your own post re TOMMY HEARNS below it’s clear you wrote Hearns lacks skills:

“After beating Hearns for the 2nd time Barkley fought James Toney and lost every round by a wide margin before he was stopped by an undefeated ATG with real skills. The kind Hearns didn’t have.”
Posted October 13, 2012 3:33 pm

So, who’s the liar and fraud TARK??????
Clearly, it’s not me!!!!

GEEZ… you don’t even know what you’re wtiting on here.

TARK you are done, finished….

You have no mouth from which to speak as you clearly do not comprehend what you are writing on these boards….

Deluded little boy, it’s time for you to pack up and leave as you are found out as a charlatan, a liar and a fraud!!!!

Done like a kipper methinks!!!!

Posted October 14, 2012 4:15 am 


TARK

You continue to fudge on ages… Marquez was 38 when he was whipped for the 2nd time by Pacquiao.. Mosley was old, but he smashed Margarito when he was old as well.. Mora didn’t school Shane or give Shane a boxing lesson–that fight was a draw.. Bradley had a badly sprained ankle but it didn’t hobble him any.. He moved well on it and was completely outscored by over 100 punches.. Pacquiao certainly didn’t do badly vs Bradley, but the judges did.

Posted October 14, 2012 2:24 am 


TARK

TJ…. You’re an insulting jerk who has no knowledge of Boxing. I never said Hearns had no skills. I said he sucked in certain fights but was a great fighter despite that. Barkley’s KO of Hearns was coming whether it was that round or the next. It was a short right that knocked Tommy out. You can check the Leonard and Hagler fights to show whtat Tommy got hit with in those fights. He wasn’t a brilliant defender. The first Barklty fight has been totally misreprented and Hearns dodged a bullet several times in that fight and hit the deck again when Barkley outpointed him… Roy Jones knocked featherpunching Virgil Hills stiff with one shot so he was no great shakes.

Posted October 14, 2012 2:14 am 


TJ

TARK, IRAN BARKELY is a three weight World champion,who had more cojones than your friend Pac will ever have….

Barkely never ducked a fight and never asked for catchweights…

He stepped into the lion’s den and was hammered almost as bad as a fighter can be until he turned the fight vs Hearns in their first bout….

That was truly one of the come from-behind KO’s you will see in boxing….

It shows your lack of knowledge as a boxing fan to say Hearns had no skills…..

Truly TARK for the first time I know you are seriously deluded, fella!!!!

HEARNS had the second best jab in boxing, behind Larry Holmes during this period…..

His long levers only helped as he whipped his jab downstairs, upstairs, head, body, head again looking for the openings, before unleashing his two handed body attack…..

He wasn’t called THE MOTOR CITY COBRA for nothing!!!!!
Hearns could outbox anyone if he so chose to do…. Look whate he did to defensive genius Wilfred Radar Benitez in lifting his WBC Super Welterweight crown…..

HEARNS is my alltime favourite fighter ever who set foot in a ring, win,lose or draw because he brought excitement into it, every single time….

He never ever chicken-st*tted out of a fight or claimed he’s too big for me, make sure there’s a catchweight….

Hearns stepped up to Light Heavy and took on the dangerous Dennis Andries and outboxed the brilliant boxer Virgil Hill (Quicksilver)…..

He then stepped up in his latter days to Cruiserweight, basically covering his career from 147 all the way through to 190 and above facing everyone and ducking noone….

He lost to Barkely because he took risks….

I will say it again….

TOMMY HEARNS would flatten Manny Pacquiao in less than 4 rounds if they ever fought at 147, 154 or 160….

Pac stands NO CHANCE in Hell!!!!
No chance in Hell!!!!!!!

Pac has cherry picked his way from 135lbs and above…..

He’s ducked and dived almost as well as you do on these posts and avoided all the searching questions…..

Your hypocrisy is legendary as one minute you are saying that ODLH is no shakes and in the next breath you are praising Manny for stopping him…..

Which one is it TARK?????

With each post you are burying yourself and making yourself look incredibly stupid…..

ODLH had not made 147 lbs in nearly 8 years before he agreed to take on Pac….

In his last bout before Pac he faced Stevie Two Pound Forbes and was made to look foolish by the blown up Super Featherweight…. Did you even see the bout??

Forbes had no problem with him whatsoever…… Remember, this was the time when we were still thinking he would rematch Floyd!!!!!!

ODLH then had an agreement to come in to the ring at a ridiculous weight limit, that left him emaciated, lacking any sort of strength or conditioning…..

He would have been easy prey for any ranked fighter that night!

You keep extolling Pac for stopping ODLH, then you say that ODLH and Sugar Shane were basic fighters…..

Well, you can’t have both sides of the coin my man…..

You need to choose and not flip flop between the two…..

anyway, feel free to answer my question re Pac’s last three bouts!!!!!

Still waiting, son…. still waiting!!!!

Posted October 13, 2012 4:11 pm 


TJ

TARK if you consider that answering my question that I have asked eight times now by using Tommy Hearns as an analogy then you are completely dumb….

I take it you are not dumb, or unable to comprehend a simple, clear question?

Let me break it down to you again my friend….

WHY did Manny Pacquiao struggle so badly to impress vs a 40 year old who was schooled by Sergio Mora in his last bout before Pac???

Why did Pac struggle so badly against a 39 year old who was forced to come up from 135 and forced to weigh in at no less than 146 and who the majority of real boxing fans as well as fair weather fans thought beat Manny handily over 12????

Why did Manny only manage to fight for the last 30 seconds of a round vs a 140 guy who had not 1 but TWO blown out ankles from very early in the fight?????

SERIOUSLY TARK, whatever reputation you’ve built up on this site is slipping badly as you refuse to answer my questions…..

If you answered the question in the detail that you side-stepped it and went off on Hagler and Mugabi we would have an insight into your thinking, but because you elected like your heroes UNCLE BOB ARUM and Manny to deflect the question, I seriously doubt you have a relevant answer….

It’s been nearly a week now and still no answer…..

TARK, you are done…. Stick a fork in him!!!!!!

Posted October 13, 2012 3:50 pm 


TARK

TJ… I answered you below… Pacquiao did much better in his last 3 fights than Tommy Hearns did in his 2 Iran Barkely fights—where an unskilled swinger KO’d Tommy and then beat him on points in the rematch 7 or 8 years later… After beating Hearns for the 2nd time Barkley fought James Toney and lost every round by a wide margin before he was stopped by an undefeated ATG with real skills. The kind Hearns didn’t have.

Posted October 13, 2012 3:33 pm 


TJ

TARK, you have not replied to my question re Pacquiao’s three latest performances…

You have thrown the swerveball in about JOHN THE BEAST MUGABI who in all fairness is not relevant to my question.

You have gone into as much detail as you possibly can about Mugabi, you threw in a flippant comment about Sugar Shane and ODLH about them being questionable at best….

BUT, you have deliberately avoided answering my question re why Manny looked so ordinary, slow and clueless in his last three bouts!!!!!

Just answer the question and then we can all move on!

Posted October 13, 2012 9:44 am 


TJ

SAL.O, you are correct in your thinking re the HAGLER fight more or less finishing The Beast….

I’ve heard that he was either dropped or KO’d in sparring a couple of times by lesser names after the Hagler bout….

But, TARK does a great disservice to TERRY NORRIS, who was a fantastic all-round fighter, save for weak whiskers…

I have 6 DVDS full of all Norris’ fights including his 2 DQ losses to Luis Santana… He fought anyone who was anyone at 154, many of whom would be world champions if they were performing today….

The quality of opposition was of a far higher standard than the cherry picked fights we have today…..

That meant you were likely to lose your next bout just as much as you were to win and the likes of DUANE THOMAS who TARK dismissed was one of my favourites, being a boxer out of the KRONK he would have had great tutelage from Manny Steward and great sparring with the likes of Hearns, Breland, McCallum, the Tate brothers and so many more , so a loss to Thomas was no bad shakes…..

This is where TARK gets things twisted, if you competed in the 70′s, 80′s and somewhat in the 90′s you were far more likely to be matched tough and have a few losses on your ledger….

I have been watching boxing for 30 years and can’t really get excited over many boxers in the last long while because I’ve seen them all before – less all the hype!!!

Posted October 13, 2012 9:39 am 


sal.o

TARK<< I dont think Mugabe was a great boxer but he was definitely not the same fighter after the Hagler fight ,,you said that he won a world title after the Hagler fight ,,well you must have not seen it ,because the fighter Mugabe was fighting for the title was Rene Jacquot and he sprain or broke his ankle in the first round ,and could not continue.,and thats how Mugabe won the title,,and before that fight Mugabe was stopped by Duane Thomas .and then he was knock out by Norris ,,Now tell me the Hagler beating did not affect him…

Posted October 13, 2012 12:45 am 


sal.o

After the Hagler fight ,Mugabe was not the same fighter ,,he would get wobble by any punch a fighter threw at him ,,he took a terrible beating by Hagler ,, also that fight took a big toll on Hagler ..so Mugabe was prime picking for Terry Norris at that stage of Mugabe’s career …

Posted October 12, 2012 6:45 pm 


TJ

TARK…. Did you know John the Beast Mugabi won Silver at the Moscow Olympics, winning his four bouts all by 1st round KO, before losing on points to a Cuban in the final?

This was when Olympic boxing actually meant something.

You write him off as a bum, but he won the Super Welterweight title twice and gave Hagler all the trouble he could handle at Middleweight….

Hardly a bum in my eyes…

Unfortunately, like Terry Norris he wasn’t blessed with a great set of whiskers, but his ferocious punching made up for all of that!

Posted October 12, 2012 8:36 am 


TJ

TARK…. Just wanted to say it’s good debating with you and I hope you don’t take any of this too personal…

We’re just two guys shooting the breeze with differing viewpoints on the NOBLE ART….

But, please answer my question?

Cheers,

TJ

Posted October 12, 2012 2:43 am 


TJ

TARK…. I really don’t know how to reach you mate…..

But, you still haven’t answered my question regarding why Pacman has looked so bad in his last three outings vs a 40 year old, who was a shell vs Sergio Mora in his outing before, Juan Manuel Marquez who came up from 135lbs and was forced to weigh in at no less than 146lbs, giving all the advantages to Pac (and in my eyes and the majority of others he outboxed Pac) and then lastly against a man with not 1, but 2 blown out ankles in Desert Storm, coming up from 140??????

TARK, how do I have to spell this out before you will answer my questions?????

Do you need more time??????

A response would be good or are you CHERRY PICKING the points you wish top answer whilst you DUCK the pertinent questions?????

STILL awaiting your response!!!!!!

Posted October 12, 2012 2:22 am 


sal.o

Tark ,i dont know or read that Mugabe would beat Pacquiao if they were the same size ..in this case you are right Mugabe is not in the same league as Pacquiao ..i never mention Mugabe was a great fighter i just said that he was not the same after the Hagler fight…

Posted October 12, 2012 1:37 am 


TARK

Yeah… DLH and Mosley sucked at times. Forrest made a punk out of Mosley. Pac made a punk out of DLH. But Shane and Oscar were still ATG fighters. Leonard and Hearns sucked at times but they were great fighters. Pacquiao didn’t suck, but he didn’t do well in his 1st Morales fight. He claimed he was weak from doctors taking 5 tubes of blood out of him for “testing” just before the fight, but you know, everyone has an excuse. At least he smashed Morales in their trilogy.

Posted October 11, 2012 4:27 pm 


TARK

Mugabi beat Pacquiao??? Mugabi was so wide open you couldn’t miss him with anything. He won one world title against a very sucky punchless fighter nobody ever heard of. He wasn’t the caliber of slugger Julian Jackson was — Jackson flattened Norris with one murderous right-hander, and Norris knocked Mugabi out in the first round.. A Jackson-Mugabi fight would have been a promoters dream but Mugabi begged off. We all know Jackson was 29-0 when Mike McCallum punched him into submission in 2 rounds.. This is the difference in caliber. McCallum fought better and tougher fighters than Hagler ever met, including James Toney and Roy Jones.. McCallum beats Pacquiao in a walk, but Mugabi could never beat him — Gee Whiz, give Pac some credit for being an ATG and don’t drag out shmuck fighters to beat him..

Posted October 11, 2012 4:13 pm 


TJ

Hold on a moment TARK… Your last comment:

Pac is at least fighting ATG’s and winning every time.

In one of your last posts you poured scorn on both SUGAR SHANE MOSLEY and OSCAR DE LA HOYA, not ranking either fighter on their best day…..

Now, you can’t have it both ways… Which one is it????? Are both ODLH & Sugar Shane greats or are they patsies as you alluded to earlier?

Pacman is doing what JOE CALZAGHE did and trying to fight name fighters who are as good as done (in Joe’s case he should have gotten the L vs BERNARD HOPKINS and he beat a shell of a fighter in ROY JONES JNR)…

Pac only took on SUGAR SHANE becuase he believed he was done…. It’s on record that neither he, nor Freddie wanted any part of Sugar until they saw him perform like a novice fighter vs THE SNAKE, Mora from Contender…. then and opnly then were they convinced that Sugar was done and they made the fight…..

Same thing with TONY MARGARITO who was coming off a lebthy ban and the world on his shoulders for trying to cheat vs Sugar…. Tony was done and got a hiding for a vacant spurious world title that neither fighter should have been contesting……Joshua Clottey was a glorified sparring session for which UNCLE BOB gave Clottey a huge BONUS for giving the world 12 rounds off boredom, imitating a punchbag…..

He threw about 10 shots in the entire fight and left Pac badly marked up…..

I dread to think what a prime time Welter from the real eras of boxing would have done to Pac……

I’ll give Pac his due for beating COTTO, altho once again he was forced to come in at a Catchweight …..ODLH = cathcweight… He hadn’t made WELTERWEIGHT for over 7 years!!!!

I’ll give Pac his due when he faces a legitimate 147 or 154 pound fighter w/o the catchweight and beats them…..

Posted October 11, 2012 3:57 pm 


TJ

@ TARK, what about the corrupt judges who scored in favour of Pac when he fought DINAMITA for the third time…

The whole world saw his shame….

Dinamita was forced to come in at 146, when the highest he’d fought at was 135 and he still in the eyes of the world beat Pacman, only to be robbed yet again by the judges…..

I will repeat very slowly in mono syllables so you can understand:

Pac can’t change up mid- fight. He has no plan B, if plan A won’t work….

Dinamita proves this time and again, Morales proved this in their first fight.

He is a good fighter for the 21st Century, but not a great fighter when ranked with the very best that have gone before.

Posted October 11, 2012 3:42 pm 


TJ

TARK, you keep getting it twisted and then keep twisting the plot to try and spin things in your favour….

But TARK, I’m calling you out once again….

Let me spell this out to you in small, concise words, so even you can understand….

My question to you for the 4th time is WHY did Pac look so bad (now let’s get this straight, looking bad and losing are two entirely different things, so PLEASE do not twist my question TARK – are you a Politician perhaps)?????

My question to you TARK is why did Pac look so bad against a 40 year old who was buzzed and ready to be taken out,
why did he look so bad against a 39 year old who was FORCED to come in at NOT LESS than 146 pounds, stepping up from 135 lbs for the fight and WHY did he look so bad against a man with not 1, BUT 2 blown out ankles suffered in the early rounds of the fight!

That is three consecutive bouts that Pac has not only looked bad, but only managed to fight in spurts…..

Pac is only 32 years old, but he is done like a kipper????

TARK, I won’t hold my breath for an answer …. BUT, the question will remain there for you to answer…..
It’s a very simple and a legitimate question…. Why is your boy looking bad against these old boys?????

Posted October 11, 2012 3:36 pm 


TJ

@SAL.O our friend TARK is like a flat-track bully…. He tries to bludgeon us with his view point but refuses to listen to reason or answer any of our specific questions – in your case Pac being a spurious 8-time/ weight World champion and in my case why has Pac looked so poor vs a man of 40 years old, a man of 39 years old and a man with not 1 but 2 blown out ankles….

Yrs, he bangs on about how Marvin Hagler was not in the same league as Pac…..

I am very curious as to how he has come about this notion, but he won’t open up for fear we will rip his theories to pieces, just like Marvelous Marvin would rip Pac to shreds if they ever fought!

TARK we are still waiting for answers to our legitimate questions!

Oh, I get it…. You are reading up on Boxrec once again to try and impress us with your stats….

Well stat away by all means, but please answer our questions or walk away!

Posted October 11, 2012 3:25 pm 


sal.o

I see Tark has no answer for my question about Pacquiao being an 8 time world champion ,,now dont get me wrong here i am a huge Pacquiao fan,,,,,as far as Hagler and Leonard goes ,,they both were some of the greatest fighters ever ,,maybe you dont understand about boxing ,,that when fighters fight a very tough fight some times they are not the same fighter anymore..example Mugabe was not the same fighter after his fight with Hagler..and Hagler was not the same fighter after fighting Roldan,,Hearns and Mugabe three very tough fights in a row…..

Posted October 11, 2012 12:27 pm 


TJ

TARK FYI John The Beast Muabi was 25-0 when he fought Marvelous Marvin and did nit know how to lose up until that point!

Beast would annihilate Pac at 154 at that stage of his career!

As for you multi nation comment, theMiddleweight and other divisions were served by may non-American fighters throughout this period! Beast, Minter, Sibbo, Hamsho to name a few!

Nice try!

Posted October 11, 2012 11:09 am 


TJ

@TARK…..

I have asked you in more than three occassions to explain Pacquiao’s average performances against his last 3 opponents in Shane Mosley, Dinamita and Desert Storm…

Three times I’ve asked you to explain your idol’s performances and three times you’ve bottled the question and cherry picked your arguments with me.

Seriously bro if we are going to debate then at least read what I am saying and try to keep on point.

You try to go in detail on Marvin but you skate around the fact that Pac is done like a kipper!

He can barely fight for 30 seconds a round vs a msn with nit 1 but 2 blown out ankles!

Seriously TARK if you can’t answer my simple question I would seriously consider coming back to debate on this site, because in my nook you are both DUCKING the question and
CHERRY PICKING your answers!

I wait with baited breath on your response!

Posted October 11, 2012 5:46 am 


sal.o

To Tark do you honestly believe that Pacquiao deserves to be call a 8 division champion ,,come on now be real honest ,who did Pacquiao fight for the super welter weight title ,, Margarito,, who was not rated in that division or ever won a fight in that division ,,,how can you honestly say that ,that was a legit championship fight ..i dont care if it was for a vacant title ,,neither one of them were rated in that division ..be honest now….

Posted October 11, 2012 2:58 am 


TJ

@ PUGFAN, please read my post posted at Posted October 10, 2012 4:08 pm

re your gripes re Pacman taking on the likes of Sanchez and Gomez…. I’m already two steps ahead of you bro’

Posted October 11, 2012 2:49 am 


TARK

That’s a great point Pugfan… No one else has ever won titles in 8 divisions, and Pac started as a flyweight.. And this whole idea of continually comparing Mayweather to Leonard and Hearns when Floyd fought at 130 for most of his career fights, and until he was 25 years old, is a little weird as well… And everyone who makes these comparisons has an agenda of knocking down Floyd and Pacquiao, so they’re not going to do an objective analysis anyway.

Posted October 10, 2012 11:08 pm 


pugfan

since Paquiao was closer to his peak at the lighter weight classes it dose not really seem fair that he should be compared to the great middleweights of the past. how about asking how Manny would have fared against the likes of Danny Lopez,Salvador Sanchez or Wilfredo Gomez ?

Posted October 10, 2012 9:53 pm 


TARK

The Top-10 middleweights of today are more globally represented, and you know that the United States is just 6% of the world population, so with better global representation in the top-10 middleweights: Martinez, Golovkin, Geale, Quillin, N’Dam, Pirog, Godoy, Mundine, Sanchez, Chavez ..You have a broader array of talent than ever—although Quillin, the American representative, could eventually take Martinez’s place as the most recognized Middleweight Champion.

Posted October 10, 2012 5:48 pm 


TARK

TJ…. You have no facts and excuse your errors by saying you don’t check with boxrec.com… Boxrec.com admitts they are frequently wrong so I don’t rely on them either… But I do have facts on my side. One is there are more good boxers in more countries of the world than ever before… When Hagler was champion there were NO challengers the caliber of Ketchell, Greb, Walker, Flowers, Robinson, Monzon, Toney, Jones, or Hopkins… Losers like Minton, Anteufermo, Geraldo, Hamsho, and Roldan were just not the same quaility — although it’s true that natural welterweights like Leonard and natural lightweights Duran, who were ATG’s in their divisions succeeded at taking championships against Hagler and Barkley in the middleweight division because it was at an all time weakness when Hagler was fighting… As Nunn, McCallum and other tough middleweights came up Hagler refused to fight them, not to mention Leonard and Hearns also refused to fight them.

Posted October 10, 2012 5:16 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

TJ this is what I have been saying for years. I like Manny and Floyd and the K Bros but please, their defences and titles are against rethreads, has beens, never was and or old men.
Undefetaed today beating up on these guys mean nothing. Having titles for every 3-7 lbs also mean nothing. The kicker is that there are now 4 major world titles plus a few minor ones. If a noxer can’t get a title today he is a bum and even some bums win titles today. They are all watered down. The titlists do not face each other and claim they are the best. WTF!!!!

Posted October 10, 2012 4:38 pm 


TJ

TARK the reason why THE BEAST took some losses is because he operated in a period as I’ve written before in which every division was FILLED with world class challengers from 1 right through to 15….

There were no gimmes!

In the last 15 or so years we would be lucky to have 3 decent fighters in any divison….

Choose any division from say 1982, 1983,1984 and look at the strength in depth of not only the champions but the top ranked guys 1 through to 15….

Now compare the same divisions we have today, last year, 5 years ago, 10 years ago…..

You can’t!!!! There’s no comparison.

There is no strength in depth….

The British Title was the zenith for some boxers who would be champions today, who would never even get close to a world challenge in that period…..

The same goes for the USBA and NABF titles…. These were highly valued stepping stones to a world title shot back in the days and actually meant something towards a proper world ranking as was the European title, the OPBF title in the far east…

You were lucky to get even one shot back then rather than the multiple shots boxers get today at all these so-called world title baubels….

Domestic divsions were rich in talent…..

THEREFORE, I am not surprised, because fighters were matched tough and padded records not as common place as today’s patsies….

The BEAST lost to Terry Norris who was a terrific fighter, but hampered by a weak chin….. The likes of Julian Jackson could KO any man on any given day and his KO’s were of the spectacular variety…. the man from the Virgin Islands had sound fundamental skills but tended to mark up quickly due to problems with his eyes, so sometimes he could swing from the hills!
Manny is not a one punch KO artist…

He is a volume puncher who at one time was left hand happy!!!

He has fast hands and feet agreed, but he can be outhustled by boxers with sound fundamentals….

Posted October 10, 2012 4:24 pm 


TJ

TARK it is truly visionary of you to map out just some of the great middleweights who would have hammered Pacman into the canvas… In your own words:

Middleweights going back to Ketchell, Greb, Walker, Robinson, Tiger, Monzon, Valdez, Nunn, McCallum, Toney, Reggie Johnson, Roy Jones, or Bernard Hopkins..

I would have liked to have seen Pac take on THE MAN OF STEEL, Tony Zale and Rocky Graziano as well….

There are literally dozens of opponents I feel Pac would have lost to…. dozens….

I would like him to take on SALVADOR SANCHEZ (my second favourite fighter of all time), Eusebio Peedroza, Danny Little Red Lopez, Azumah Nelson to name a few at Feather weight including defensive genius WILLIE PEP and I believe SANDY SADDLER, who will always be linked (Saddler, tall and could punch like a mule – over 100 KO’s, only stopped once in 200 bouts)!

What about vs the likes of WILFREDO GOMEZ, Carlos Zarate at Super Bantam????

The list goes on and on!

Posted October 10, 2012 4:08 pm 


TJ

TARK you have conveniently ignored my summations on Pac’s last 3 bouts where he looked ordinary at best vs Sugar Shane, Dinamita and Desert Storm….

Please explain??????

Posted October 10, 2012 4:01 pm 


TJ

TARK… I do not check BOXREC and never will….

I have been watching boxing for more than 30 years and I question how skillfull Pacman is where he was SCHOOLED in every department of boxing by ERIK MORALES, who outpunched him, outfought him, having the last word in every exchange they had in their first encounter….

MORALES outmachoed PAC to such an extenet he event went southpaw in the last 2 stanzas, such was his dominace over Pacman…..

Pacman is not that skillful, nor that bright…. Neither he nor Freddie can change up their fight plan mid fight if things are not going their way…..

He doesn’t have it in him….

HAGLER by dominating KO……

Posted October 10, 2012 3:59 pm 


TARK

TJ… You’re fudging on ages left and right.. Pacquiao is 33 and you know it.. Hagler was only 30 or 31 when he faced Mugabi and you probably knew that too.. When you say, “Mugabi was not a wild slinger but a clinical one punch KO artist” Mugabi was a wild assed swinger with no skills who was wide open for a KO shot—from any good boxer-puncher. Terry Norris put Mugabi out in the 1st round.. Dwayne Thomas put Mugabi out in 3 rounds.. Julian Jackson was a wild assed swinger, but more of a “one-punch KO artist” than Mugabi was.. Jackson was 29-0 when Mike McCallum blasted the slugger out in 2 rounds with precision body punching and tight flurries of uppercuts—that’s ring craft not in Hagler’s arsenal.. Hagler was fairly crude in comparison and wouldn’t win versus the greatest Middleweights going back to Ketchell, Greb, Walker, Robinson, Tiger, Monzon, Valdez, Nunn, McCallum, Toney, Reggie Johnson, Roy Jones, or Bernard Hopkins.. That’s a 100 years of middleweights who would have beaten Hagler, who’s not in the Top-10 … Hearns could have outboxed Hagler but he’s not very bright. Not being as shrewd, intelligent, and crafty as Leonard, Hearns elected to slug toe-to-toe with both Hagler and Barkley, getting KTFO on both occassions.. Even former lightweight Duran knew enough to box Hagler and Barkley and not get into a slugout with them. IMO he beat both. Pacquiao is another extremely crafty and skilled ATG who would pick his spots and flurry like crazy before darting back out and using ring space to his advantage like he did vs Hatton, Clottey, Margarito, and Mosley. Leonard would be Pac’s blueprint.

Posted October 10, 2012 3:48 pm 


TJ

@ TARK… John The Beast Muagbi fought Marvelous Marvin in his penultimate bout… Perhaps Sugar Ray, who is one of the biggest opportunists in the history of the sport (see how he conned TWO world titles out of a battle with Blond bomber DONNY LALONDE), saw how far Marvin had slipped… perhaps as a result of his war with TOMMY HEARNS….

Sugar Ray knew the time was right to take on Monster Marvin….

I don’t read BOXREC, but rely on fights I’ve seen (I am from London and saw Hagler – Leonard beamed live at a cinema on The South Bank— HEROL BOMBER GRAHAM was on hand, signing autographs for the mainly Hagler fans who were there….. For the record I was supporting Sugar Ray that night……

Compare Hagler taking punishment at the end of his career vs THE BEAST, Hagler must have been about 34 years of age, on the back of nearly 70 bouts and all those Philly wars, you really need to give some proper perspective….

As a Lt. Middle The Beast was not a wild slinger but a clinical one punch KO artist who would have an above average chance against almost any other fighter his weight…..

Now, let’s once again look at Pac’s last few bouts…

Pac is about 32 years of age and in his last 3 performances he too has looked distinctly average in struggling to fight for more than 30 seconds vs a man in DESERT STORM who had not 1, but 2 blown out ankles??????

Now, that sucks!

He then was very lucky to get a decision when I seriously think he was CLEARLY outboxed by a 40 year old man in DINAMITA, who was forced to come up from 135 lbs and ordered to weigh-in no less than 146lbs to ensure Pac had every advantge for the bout….

Marquez made him look clueless once again…. Pac barely had the strength or boxing knowhow to compete with DINAMITA!!!!

Lastly, and most telling Pac could not finish a buzzed, over-the-hill and finished Sugar Shane Mosley after he floored him and was bamboozled by a simple half-step to the rear/ half-step to the side and was unwilling or unable to engage and ambled through 8 more boring rounds I could not imagine!!!

Pac is only 32 and to all intents and purposes he is blown out…..

He too had had over 50 bouts, so you must take wear and tear into the equation….

But rest assured the Marvin Hagler who ripped the Undisputed title off Alan minter would have smashed Manny Pacquiao to smithereens…..

I would wager my life-savings on this!!!!

Posted October 10, 2012 2:21 pm 


TARK

Pac is a much better defender than people give him credit for… He outpunched Hatton 38 to 5 in the first round. Pac limited De La Hoya to about 10 solid shots in 8 rounds. Pac hasn’t been outpointed by ATG Juan Manuel Marquez in 3 fights. Pac boxed rings around Margarito, Clottey, and Mosley, and outlanded Bradley by 100 punches in the punch stats.. A prime Pacquiao had the best and fastest feet in the business. If you’re coming at Pacman like Hatton did he eats you up—because Pac can dart in and out like a butterfly who punches like a mule… Pacquiao has problems with counterpunchers like Mayweather but he wouldn’t have any problems at all with Hagler …. You saw how the wild swinging, wide open, soft chinned Mugabi put bungs on Hagler’s head that you just couldn’t believe. The slicker and faster Pacquiao would do a Leonard like number on Hagler’s face just because of the massive difference in hand speed … Leonard’s hands did slow down by the time he fought Norris and Pacquiao’s hand speed is slowing down now. That’s why a speedy and clever middleweight like Sergio Martinez, who has brilliantly fast hands and feet even at 37 — I do not necessarily recommend that Pacquiao fight a middleweight like that. Hagler??? He was slow so no problem.

Posted October 10, 2012 1:46 pm 


TJ

Please excuse the spelling mistakes in my earlier post…..

I tried several times to post this response to TARK yesterday and have re-written it below:

@ TARK, a PRIME PACMAN barely survived his first two bouts with DINAMITA getting a draw and a waifer thin decision at Featherweight and Super Featherweight….

I truly believe you have been seduced by Pacmania….

Did you see how Erik Morales schooled him in their first bout????

Morales outpunched him, outboxed him, got the last word in every exchange and generally outmachoed Pacman in every department….

This was the same Pacman who walked through my man Marco Antonio Barrera…

He only got a couple of licks in when Erik, bored with whupping Pacman turned southpaw in the last two stanzas and started to get caught…..

Seriously, look at that bout again and tell me if the Duran who took Sugar Ray’s unbeaten tag would not beat up Pac and send him home with his pants down???

Pac would get battered at 147 by most of the Welters I mentioned earlier….

As for you thinking he could beat Marvelous Marvin, I just can’t stop laughing…. The notion is too ridiculous, unless we have a catchweight where Marvin must weigh no more than 150lbs as he steps through the ropes on the night of the bout!!!!

Please tell me you were joking with that one????

To get to Marvelous he would have to survive the hand grenades of John THE BEAST Mugabi and one of my all-time favourites Julian Jackson…. Both men would leave Pacman on the canvas staring up at the lights!

We haven’t even mentioned how Winky Wright would give him the schooling of his life…. All these bouts would be at Jnr Middleweight…..

I’m sorry Tark, but IMHO Pacman is one of the most overrated fighters in modern history, when you look at his resume from 135lbs and above….

He took the Lightweight title off David Diaz, who got a dodgy decision over Erik Morales when there were far more dangerous and fearsome foes waiting for him…
Up until Super Featherweight Pac met decent quality fighters, but ever since he has had SMOKE & MIRRORS to make him look better than he actually is above 135 – where I believe he only had that one bout!!!!

If Pac competed at Welterweight in the 80′s, we probably would never even have heard his name…. The same goes for the 90′s…

I can’t imagine him getting past the likes of Ayub Kalule or even Maurice Hope at 154….

What is he, 32 years old now??? He can barely get pas t a 40 year old Dinamita, who came up from Lightweight and was forced to come in at a weight of 146 to accommodate Pac and he outboxed Pac in their third encounter…..

Add to that fact that Pac was totally outfoxed by a step back from a 39 year old, done Sugar Shane Mosley in the bout before and he could barley get by (I know they scored it an L) a man with two, let’s repeat, 2 blown out ankles in Desert Storm, in his last bout!!!!!!!!

Pac is only 32 and he cannot even dominate and put away these 40 year olds!

Pac is a great story, but above 135 as others have said he has benefitted from seriously weak or aged competition…..

He would not live with the fighters of the 80′s or 90′s, period…..

The only thing Pac has in his favour is his workrate….. And even this is on the wane…..

I’ve always said these human dynamoes who rely on an all-out style will blow up spectacularly one day and they will be left with nothing….

I don’t think either Pac or Freddie have the know-how how to change up in a fight….. Morales battered him at will and elected to take him on at his own game and gave Pac a good whupping…… Marquez out boxed him for 10 consecutive rounds after being floored 3 times in the first of their first encounter….
Shane Mosley confused him with the half-step back, half-step to the side when he was clearly buzzed and a man with two blown out ankles managed to compete with him for 12 rounds!
This is a man in his peak years, if you consider Floyd in his late 30′s and the likes of Mosley and Dinamita competing til their 40′s!!!!!

Do you not think the likes of Sugar Ray, Marvelous Marvin, Roberto Duran and all the others didn’t have a Plan B, if Plan A wasn’t working?????

Of course they did…..

I’m yet to see a Plan B from Pac…..

You never know, he may prove me wrong when he takes on Marquez for a fourth time this December?????

Posted October 10, 2012 1:29 pm 


TJ

TARK, I am not a great fan of Hagler, but do you really in your heart feel that Pacman could live with him???

If these guys fought twenty times Hagler would smash him twenty times….

Pacman’s mantra is to engage….

Pacman has little, to no effective defence…

His defence is to attack….

Hagler was moulded in the Philly wars, well before he drew with Vito Antuofermo or ripped the title from Alan Minter….

Hagler would walk right through Manny…. Hagler is a monster southpaw who if these two guys, and this is how i judge fighters were the same weight, fighting at the same time Hagler would have pulverised him….

The only boxers Hagler had problems with were the clever types, like Willie Monroe, Sugar Ray, Boogaloo Watts…. He struggled vs Duran because duran’s defence was much better than people give him credit for…. He was able to attack whilst deflecting any solid punches from Hagler…. Pacman has not mastered this ability….

Pac would eat these punches flush….

Straight forward sluggers like Sibbo Sibson wree made for him and he usually punished them….

I just cannot imagine any scenario where Pac doesn’t finish either on his back or on his knees, exhausted, battered, bruised and demoralised!

Posted October 10, 2012 1:22 pm 


TARK

Yes, I think so, particularly if it was Duran for Leonard II… Because DeJesus dropped Duran twice with left hooks and Kirkland Laing clubbed Roberto with left hooks. Pacquiao has a very slick left hander that floored JMM 4 times and flattened Hatton when Pac was in his prime. Pac’s right hook would also beat a tattoo on Duran’s left ear and Pac is a sharper combination puncher …. Duran tended to get lazy when he got above 135, while Pacquiao has kept the same work ethic throughout his career, never ballooning up to 200 between fights like Duran did between Leonard fights I and II.

Posted October 10, 2012 1:17 pm 


sal.o

I m a big Pacquiao fan ,,but do you think Pacquiao would have defeated Duran on the night Duran defeated Leonard in Montreal ..I really dont think so….Hagler fighting Rodrigo Valdez ,,come on now ,Valdez was a tough cookie but that is all..he stood right in front of Bennie Briscoe all thru the fight ,, toe to toe which is not to smart yes he did stop Briscoe but after he took a hell of a lot of punishment ,,Hagler had more brains then that .. as far as McCullum goes yes a great fighter very tough jaw ,,but very average also…

Posted October 10, 2012 12:22 pm 


Neil (pomy)

SRED – Hagler walked him down, HAgler was a beast. Hagler fights nothing like MAyweather … 2 completely different animals. One was a fully-fledged middleweight and one of the top 5 greatest middleweights of all time. Floyd is a lightweight fighting at welterweight …….

Posted October 10, 2012 12:17 pm 


TARK

Look TJ… Mugabi was a wild swinger who couldn’t box a lick—but he put so many hard licks on Hagler that Marv was growing another head. Mike McCallum fought a much better slugger in Julian Jackson (29-0) and stopped him in 2 rounds. Duane Thomas and Terry Norris did much better jobs on Mugabi and Leonard respectively than Hagler did.. Leonard was a great welterweight, and he came off a 3-year-layoff to whip Hagler’s behind in style. Carlos Monzon also fought a great welterweight in Jose Napoles—and beat the living HELL out of Napoles every minute of every round. Duran lost to the inept Kirkland Laing—so Pacquaio, a very tricky southpaw, would have flummoxed Roberto and ripped him with combinations all night long … The last analysis is: Hagler refused to fight light heavyweights—or ever try for the Light Heavyweight Championship like Tiger, Torres, Robinson, Hopkins, and other great middleweight did. Hopkins beat 4 Light Heavyweight Champions. All the natural middleweights Hagler fought were not great fighters. Hagler never fought a natural middleweight the caliber of Ray Robinson, Carlos Monzon, Rodrigo Valdez, Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, James Toney, Reggie Johnson, Roy Jones, or Bernard Hopkins … Hagler was extremely lucky. He had a window of time between great middleweights.

Posted October 10, 2012 11:28 am 


TJ

@Salo. Are you for real??? McCallum’s forgotten more tricks than Manny will ever know! McCallum would have attacked that midsection methodically chopping Pac down and would have despatched him with the same looping long left he too Cobra Curry out with.

McCallum was avoided by the big four and for good reason.

Look what he did in the latter stages of his career…

McCallum would’ve terrorised Pac at 154 or forced him to abandon all hope of another title at this weight.

Mike is one of best ever at 154.

Posted October 10, 2012 11:05 am 


TJ

@TARK Have you seen Marvelous Marvin’s KO of Fully Obel? ODLH was weight sapped and done by the time he fought Pac. Did you not see my boy 2 Pound Stevie Forbes make him look foolish in the fight before Pac?

Regarding Ricky Htton, he was slurring his words in the ring after Floydie check-hooked him and was a KO waiting to happen. He was so amped he shunned defence totally!

I am going to rewrite my article on how El Terrible schooled him at his own game in their first encounter.

Pac is a good fighter performing against average Welters.

It’s that simple.

Posted October 10, 2012 9:47 am 


TJ

@TARK… I tried several times to post a response to you yesterday, but somehow these posts have not been allowed…

I will try again later….

Anyway I detailed how Pac has no chance vs the likes of John The Beast Mugabi, Julian Jackson and Winky Wright at Super Welterweight, but was seriously intrigued at your opinion on how Pac could have beaten Marvelous Marvin Hagler at Middleweight.

This seriously shook my faith in your fundamental thinking re boxing.

Marvin walked through the howitzers Thomas Hearns, Juan Domingo Roldan and The Beast threw at him… He outhustled superior boxers and iced Caveman Lee in a round…

Do you really think Pacman who lacks defensive skills could really frustrate switch-hitter Monster Marvin for 12 or 15 rounds???

I am not a fan of Hagler, but he would have smashed Pacman to pieces…. Remember him dealing with superior skillsters Willie The Worm Monroe and Bobbie Boogaloo Watts and all the other Philly Middles who also would have handed Pac his teeth????

I seriously cannot agree with you on this one…..

Do you think Pac could have beaten Joe Calzaghe also???

I’m mystified as to your logic….

Pac can’t hit hard enough, is too small and cannot absorb body blows.

Hagler would have chopped him down and put him out around the midway point!

That, I’m certain of!

Posted October 10, 2012 8:10 am 


sal.o

To Tark you absolutely make no sense ..it looks like you know some what about the middle weights ,,but to say Pacquiao would have whip Duran ,,come on now and im a big Pacquiao fan ,, and the reason Hagler did not fight Nunn and McCallum and Jackson is because it was towards the end of Hagler’s career and he was looking for the biggest payday and those fighters you mention did not have a big fan base ,,some what of what Pacquiao is doing right now ,,looking for the biggest pay day…

Posted October 10, 2012 2:09 am 


sal.o

How in the heck did Mike McCallum”s name come out as an opponent for Pacquiao …come on now dont you realize the size difference ..but if they were the same size Pacquiao definitely woud win ,,Pacquiao is a greater fighter…also to Tark what are you talking about man,,,Hagler was the greatest middle weight ever,,what about his wins over Minter,,Sibson,,Mugabe,,Hearns,,Roldan, Hamsho,,if any thing Hopkins era did not have any good middleweights….

Posted October 10, 2012 1:53 am 


TARK

Kenny…. Because Pacquiao has blazing speed and thunderous power… How many guys have won world championships from flyweight to jr middleweight??? How many boxers make 87 million a year??? Or about 65 million in Pacquiao’s case… How many fighters flattened Hatton with one shot for the full count and than 5 minutes more??? How many fighters made Oscar De La Hoya who won world titles from super featherweight to middleweight, quit in his corner??? How many guys put Juan Manuel Marquez on his ass four (4) times??? I gave your man McCallum his dues, but Hagler was another boy.. Check out Hagler’s fight with Marcos Geraldo.. Here is a guy who was knocked out 10 times before, and Hagler couldn’t even knock him down.. Check out Hagler’s fight with old man Benny Briscoe.. He couldn’t knock Briscoe down.. Rodrigo Valdez knocked a prime Benny Briscoe out cold with one thunderous left hook, and put Carlos Monzon on his can with one right hander …. Hagler just happened to be in a perfect window of time where there were no tough middleweights like Monzon, Valdez, McCallum or Toney who he couldn’t avoid …. That’s OK because the speedy and clever welterweight Leonard took care of him.

Posted October 9, 2012 11:07 pm 


Kenny Weldon

Well Tark ,since I was involved in much of the middleweight devision back then and know most of the people you are discussing ,it may be a good idea to consider the fact Pac was wabbled and even dropped by much lighter puncher than the guys you think he would have beaten,not to mention the fact a couple of them would outbox him too,maybe you can explain to me how he would do this.I have watched these guys up close and personal and even helped coach a few of them.I am current in the game and have been around it most of my life.I like Freddy and Pacman and have did evalluations of many of them up close and personal as well. Out of curosity more than anything,I would like you to explain why you feel the way you do……God bless…..kenny weldon

Posted October 9, 2012 6:29 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

I for one accuse some boxers of ducking so I should not be defending Hagler who was not even my fav. But as a champ you always get called out. If you take on fighter A people say you ducked fighter B, so it’s a catch 22 situation.
Hagler faced everyone he could to get his title shot and got robbed vs Vito Antefuermo. Then when he won the title he got pelted in England. He faced everyone in the top ten in the 1st few years and then went for money fights later. If that is ducking so be it.
I hate when guys avoid the very best and pick who is easy. Fighters take the most $ for the less risk and that’s not fair. An easy fight like Ali did sometimes is ok but we know ducking is just avoiding them forever!!!!

Posted October 9, 2012 4:20 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

Come on, get beyond just being a pactard or a Floydbot and recognize these are small guys. They are very good maybe even close to being great. But beating up older guys, ppast guys or catchweight guys does not make you and ATG.
I repeat they are decent and could compete against the best at their most natural weights. But please, they would get killed at the very high weights. Manny beat Margarito but got badly hurt and Margo was very, very slow. he would be body snatched by McCallum and cut down fastre than Hearns was vs Hagler.

Posted October 9, 2012 4:14 pm 


TARK

I didn’t say Pacquiao would beat a prime Mike McCallum…so don’t get me wrong… Mike was too tough, too slick, and just too big, too tall, and too hard punching for Pac… Hagler would be beatable because he’s shorter, and Pacquiao would outspeed him and throw him off balance with his southpaw style. Hagler wouldn’t fight Nunn and I think the southpaw stance was the biggest factor. Hagler wouldn’t fight Harol Graham when Graham was 38-0 and the number one rated contender. I believe Graham’s slickness and speed gave Hagler pause. Hagler never fought anyone as fast as Pacquiao except Leonard—of course Leonard was coming off a 3-year-layoff and up from welterweight and still had enough to close out rounds with resounding dominance, making a punching bag out of Hagler’s face… Duran would be the easiest for Pacquiao because he was short, fat, and lazy by the time he fought Hearns, Leonard, and Hagler …. Even Robbie Simms and Kirland Laing beat the lazy Duran above 135 — so a prime and diligent Pacquiao would have a field day with RD …. And yes, a prime Pacquiao would have beaten the crap out of Mosley and DLH on the best day they ever saw — ditto Tito — although I believe Hopkins would have beaten Pacman. Pac started as a flyweight and at some point the bigger middleweights were just too huge and strong for him. Monzon??? Forget it. But of course Monzon would have smashed Hearns, Leonard and Hagler right through the floorboards as well.

Posted October 9, 2012 2:05 pm 


Kenny Weldon

Tark….Pac could not have whipped Mike McCallumn with a baseball bat. .A young
Oscar would stop Pacman.I recognize the fact Pac needs to use these names of great fighters of the past as opposition so as to even be considered one of the best ever,even if he has won 30 or 40 versions of world titles.If you want to prove he is great,it is too late. You could take each guy he has whipped and put them in the ring with Duran and he would whip one of them a week.As would Mike McCallumn in his prime.The lifting up of Pac and even Floyd by mentioning the names of greatness in our sport makes me ill…..God bless….kenny weldon

Posted October 9, 2012 12:39 pm 


TJ

@TARK…

I disagree with you re Pacman….

I would favour Aaron Hawk Pryor stopping Pacman anywhere after 10 at 140 and the rest of the Welterweights dominating him….

I have never really been that much of a fan of Oscar, so I don’t really care if Pac could have beaten him….

do you really think Pac could have beaten a prime Shane Mosley??? Really???? Really????

Is this why he ran from him until he knew he was done after the Mayweather fight!

Pac would have been iced by the likes of Tito and Tommy at 147…. No question… Duran would have beaten him up…..

the Welterweights of today are not in the same league as the guys who filled the ranks at 147 between 1980 and 2000…..

I agree with you re MIKE McCALLUM… in fact Mike should have been included in the Four with Hagler, Hearns, Leonard & Duran (add or delete RADAR Benitez, if you wish)…..

Mike was scheduled to face Duran for his Jnr Middleweight title, but Duran opted for Tommy and more money….

If The Mean Machine had faced Duran and IMHO beaten him he would have been a viable opponent for Marvelous Marvin Hagler!!!

The Jamaican Sensation is one of the finest fighters of his era from Jnr Middleweight, right up to Cruiserweight and purists know how good a fighter he was, although the fairweather fans probably have no clue about how technically gifted The BodySnatcher was and how much old school knowledge he used in the ring….

TBH MCCallum has always been a favourite fighter of mine – only Tommy Hearns is that much more in my heart…..

McCallum also tried to get fights with Sugar Ray and it would have been interesting to pit his systematic body attack and deceptive defensive skills, armed with his long loose limbs pitted against the fleet feet and fists of Sugar Ray…..

This is probably one of the best bouts we have been denied over the last 30 odd years….

I think a Hagler bout would have come two or three years too early for Mike, but as history as proved he would probably have acquitted himself well….

Posted October 9, 2012 11:21 am 


TARK

Pacquiao would have beaten all those guys in his prime… He beat the crap out of 6-Division World Champion Oscar De La Hoya didn’t he.. Pac had Blazing hand speed, smashing KO power, brilliant combinations, tireless endurance.. Floyd will fight Pacquiao, not doubt about it.. How much were Leonard and Hearns nicked for not fighting Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum??? They would have gotten the crap beaten out of them of they fought those guys so they ducked them like shameless cowards.. After Leonard whipped both Hearns and Hagler, Ray was the middleweight champion — McCallum, Nunn, and Julian Jackson were the top middleweight contenders but Leonard refused to fight them because he knew he’d get killed.. Eventually Leonard was stripped of the Middleweight Title and Nunn, McCallum, and Jackson won the splintered titles… Leonard had his choice of which one to fight but he decided to got down to 154 to fight Terry Norris — who he thought had a weak chin because Julian Jackson smashed him TFO a couple fights previously.

Posted October 9, 2012 10:07 am 


The Bible of Boxing

TJ no way Manny competes again the real”top” welters of any erea. He can beat some welters but not the elite. He is too small period. Like I said before, he would compete against the very best at 126-135 and hold his own.
There is no way he is in the top 10 all time. He is great for the sport and is a great fighter but do not be fooled by 8 titles in today’s watered down boxing where everyone can have 3-5 titles.

Posted October 9, 2012 7:04 am 


TJ

ONE THING WE MUST TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION is that the greats of the 80′s and half-way through the 90′s, these boxers had to “make-weight” on the day of the fight….

This is very significant, because the likes of a Hearns would only have around 10 hours to rehydrate and re-calibrate his body to get as much strength etc back into it…..

Today’s boxers have anything up to 36 hours to get back into a strong body situation and therefore as people have been highlighting should be both stronger and fitter over the distance (particularly when you consider the Greats fought over 15 rounds and not this joke-business 12 rounds)….

It would be highly interesting to see someone like Pac fighting without any sort of catchweight at 147 or 154 and to see what he could do vs a COTTO with a same-day weigh in, which to my mind is fairer to all boxers involved and would have seriously stopped this Division-jumping by certain boxers to cherry-pick World titles, particularly vs inferior or lesser rated champions at the time….

It would be great if we could go back in time to 1981 and see what Hearns could have done with 24-36 hours to rehydrate and calibrate his body vs Sugar Ray Leonard…. He came in at a ridiculous 144 lbs (ODLH & Cotto did something similar vs Pacman) …..
could the bout have turned out differently if Hearns had been strong at Welter?????

Perhaps he would have employed the same tactics he did vs the likes of Cuevas and Duran and broken SRL down with his body attack????

Who knows????

But, all I do know is that IMHO a same-day weigh-in is far fairer than what we have today where people can cheat divisions…..

An example of this is JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ Jnr. who somehow makes 160 but enters the ring nearer 190, thus he has a significant weight advantage over his opponents…. Could he really do this with a 10 hour turn around????

I think not…..

This game should be about having an even playing field as it is dangerous enough as it is?

Just my opinion….

Posted October 9, 2012 5:54 am 


TJ

MANNY PACQUIAO’S name is synonymously linked with that of FLOYD MAYWEATHER….

Well, what do people think of the great one, Pacman’s chances vs the Welterweight version of Tommy Hitman Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Cholo Duran???

Pacman is supposedly an 8 division champion and people like UNCLE BOB ARUM are erroneously proclaiming him as G.O.A.T. not so long ago….

Well, how would he have fared with Duran, Leonard, Benitez and Hearns at 147?

How would he have fared against the likes of McCrory, Cobra Curry and Lloyd Honeyghan who came straight after this period?

How would he have fared against the likes of Mark Breland, Moochie’ Marlon Starling, Maurice Thinman Blocker, Simon Brown….

How to vs Tito’ Felix Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Ike Quartey????

The list goes on….

IMHO I wouldn’t put much money on Pacman beating any of these guys….

As I said, the boxers of this era from the 80′s through to the 90′s were built of sterner stuff than today’s patsies…..

Manny’s stamina and workrate would make several of these matchups competitive but I personally feel the skills of Curry, the complexities of Starling, the power of Tito would all prove too much for Pacman….

I personally feel that today’s welters are seriously not in the same league as those of the 80′s, nor those of the 90′s …..

We are in a period of mediocrity served up to us as champagne when really we are drinking liquor….

Posted October 9, 2012 5:36 am 


adam1

Money would of ran out against the hitman, wait, he would of ducked Hearns ( which is part of the game )Money’s bootlegged shoulder roll defence would’nt work with Hearns

Posted October 9, 2012 1:14 am 


GIRRI

FLOYD MAYWEATHER, JR. CANNOT MAKE IT IN THE LIST OF ALL TIME GREAT UNTIL HE FIGHTS THE LEGENDARY 8 DIVISION CHAMPION, FIGHTER OF THE DECADE, BACK TO BACK FIGHTER OF THE YEAR, POUND FOR POUND KING, …
THE ONE AND ONLY MANNY PACQUIAO.

THE OBSTACLE FOR FLOYD, JR. TO PURSUIT GREATNESS IS THE PACMAN.

Posted October 9, 2012 12:56 am 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

And remember guys.. An elite Redhead>>>all other chicks via KO1. Make sure you keep that with you and you won’t go wrong. Real talk. Shabba.

Posted October 8, 2012 11:38 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Hidalgo.. Nah man, Patrick’s defo wrong. Watch the tape again bro, Money clearly beckons Shane in to hit him with the right hand. In fact, he’s so enthusiastic about hit he accidentally catches Shane with the end of his glove when he’s motioning him in. PS. THE POST BELOW WAS WRITTEN BY YOURS TRULY BY THE WAY.

Posted October 8, 2012 11:31 pm 


Anonymous

Hidalgo.. Apology accepted. I still stand by what I said though. Floyd is the pinnacle of the evolution of the sport and as such I don’t think any of those who came before him could beat him, regardless of how great they were in their respective primes. I love Sugar Roy Leonard as much as the next man but Floyd’s on a different stratosphere IMO. Leonard was fast and flashy and could both take and give a good shot. However, Floyd is just too god damn fast, too god damn slick, too good defensively, and ultimately, just too god damn smart for him. Same goes for Duran too, and I say that as not only a huge fan of the man but also as someone who’s broken bread and knocked back more than a few bottles of Chardonnay with him at his family table. I’m a straight shooter and I don’t let personal friendships or bias cloud my judgement, Floyd is just better than all of them IMO and I’m just calling it how I see it.

Posted October 8, 2012 11:26 pm 


TARK

@ Herron…. The only reason I bet on Ricardo Mayorga to beat Vernon Forret, who was a 10-1 favorite to beat Mayorga, was becaue Ronnie Shields was coaching Forrest.. I had a good idea what his game plan would be.. In their first fight, instead of having the much taller, rangier, and more skilled Forrest jab and move, Shields screamed at Vernon to engage in a slugout giving Mayorga his only chance to win.. In the 2nd fight he treated Forrest like he was an infant.. He grabbed his left arm and screamed, “You’re going to beat him with this, do you understand me?” He’s one of the least insightful well known trainers in Boxing — he just goes with popular sentiment when picking winners and losers, and popular sentiment is often DEAD WRONG.

Posted October 8, 2012 10:19 pm 


TARK

….. “Hearns was faster then a piston.” …Please GTFOOH– Why did Iran Barkley, who was slower than a pregnant turtle, knock Tommy stiff when Tommy was only 29 years old??? The reason Hagler knocked Tommy out? Hearns loaded his shots.. The reason Leonard knocked Tommy out? Leonard caught Hearns with a sweeping roundhouse right that a good boxer could see coming from across town. Tommy was too slow to get out of the way of Ray’s big loaded swing. A good boxer like Mayweather could see all of Hearns’ shots coming and catch Tommy with quick left hooks and follow up right hands that would build up a massive points lead and might well knock Tommy out.

Posted October 8, 2012 9:53 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

Vass if we judge people by how healthy they are today, by his own admission and the way he talks about his health etc. I must agree Floyd is the probably smarter than Hearns, Ali, Robinson and many other punch drunk boxers.
I however cannot accept by his own words that he is the best ever. His own fear of being hurt especially after the wars with Castillo changed how he fought for the better from a long term and health perspective. But it also changed his date with everlasting legacy. I am sorry but boxing is brutal and I personally would not do it nor did I allow my sons when they were small. My grannds are not involved either. But a quarterback or running back who retire before they have cemented their legacy cannot be placed up there with those who dared to face the best and endure.
Sure they will be talked about as being just as talented but not proving it by enduring was their choice as it is Floyd’s. He has HOF talent but not HOF guts. I am sorry! It’s a fact!

Posted October 8, 2012 9:28 pm 


vass

Tommy is a ring legend..He would be a handful for any fiighter from Welter all the way to LightHeavy…But Floyd will retire still being able to talk properly..Poor Tommy has taking way to much damage…

Posted October 8, 2012 9:03 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

Kenny I can recognize when a guy knows his boxing and you certainly do my friend. What you also forgot to mention about Saddler is that he was downright mean and dirty. He was Pep’s kryptonite and he did whatever he had to do to win.
As Fight Aficionado said some guys have another boxer’s number. In his prime two guys had Shane’s number and each beat him twice. But it did not stop Shane from being a very decent boxer. Floyd used speed to beat a slow Corrales but Hearns had speed, power and a long jab. No way he could pot shot Hearns.
Floyd has quick hands and can think but he is not a great inside fighter. His defence is not slick like Benitez, Pep or Whitaker. Sweet P stayed in the pocket and made guys miss to score. Floyd is quite content to land 2 shots if his man only lands 1. He is very patient.
Cotto forced him to fight but Cotto always had stamina problems. Leonard and Duran could fight for 15 rds. I repeat, Hearns was too light vs Sugar that’s why he faded in the end. Well, that plus some wicked body shots:). I can not see Floyd staying in the pocket to try to slow down Hearns. It is just a bad match up against these guys. I see Floyd doing well vs past 130 and 135 guys but totally outclassed by the great welters. Sorry!

Posted October 8, 2012 9:01 pm 


Joseph Herron

On last night’s edition of “The Pugilist KOrner’s: Weekend Wrap”, trainer Ronnie Shields gave his opinion on this topic.

He said that Floyd would maybe last a couple of rounds against a prime 147 pound version of Tommy Hearns, and he wouldn’t even think about getting in the ring with Roberto Duran.

Pretty good stuff on last night’s show.

Ronnie’s segment starts at the 30 minute mark.

Posted October 8, 2012 8:54 pm 


terry buck

if hearns and mayweather’s times would have been together mayweather never would have gone over 135

Posted October 8, 2012 7:45 pm 


Kenny Weldon

Bible of boxing….Willy Pep ,as all greats do, met his worst nightmare in Saddler. Sandy was strong and very tall.Sandy fought hard underneath and pushed on Willy when Willy would get under him.Willies ballance became more fragile each round.He was not strong enough inside with Sandy and unable to work alot of his slickness.Every boxer has an opponent out there who is their worst nightmare.Willy Peps nightmare was Sandy Sadler.Sandy was a tall strong guy who constantly off set Willies quickness with reach and off rythem moves.The little things Willy loved to do were negated by Saddler.Sandy took away what Willy did great and beat what Willy did bad…..Styles make fights..God bless….kenny weldon

Posted October 8, 2012 7:12 pm 


Kenny Weldon

Bible of boxing…I believe much of what you say. Floyd never had the feet of Ray Leonard and although slick as Owl dookie ,he did not have the fluidity of Ray Leonard. Last but not least,he didnt have the power of Roberto Duran ,although he does have a good chin.He could never stop Hearns and he is too short to outbox him.Thomas was good underneath.I believe Thomas Heans was too much for Floyd….Just my opinion….God bless….kenny weldon

Posted October 8, 2012 6:14 pm 


Fight Aficionado in Boston

Anyhow guys, I’m heading back to San Francisco where I might still be banned by ESB. If so I am outta here and won’t likely be back. I can only post now because I’m out of town on a different IP address. ESB banned me for no reason, unless criticizing the editorial content on this site is grounds for a permaban. If so they should state that so we know beforehand. Adios.

Posted October 8, 2012 6:00 pm 


Fight Aficionado in Boston

“I think Tommy’s height, reach and power advantages would be too much for Mayweather… He’d have to move like crazy, like he did against Corrales (RIP) to squeeze out a decision.” – Philly, you’re correct in that Floyd’s only chance would be to run and pot shot Tommy. Problem with the Chico approach is Tommy was as good at boxing as he was slugging, unlike Chico. Tommy also had good footwork, unlike Chico. And his hand speed was also way faster than Chico’s. Really the only comparison between the two was their unusual height and punching power for their respective weights.

Posted October 8, 2012 5:56 pm 


pugfan

congratulations to Floyd on his win over Cotto,but i would hardly call it one of Floyd’s finest moments. Floyd was forced to stand and trade with Cotto because Floyd’s boxing ability is not quite what it once was. his legs are not the same.

Posted October 8, 2012 5:47 pm 


SREDMOND

Floyd fought Cotto at 154, a weight Cotto has NO issues making and he handled the threat with style… All these “What ifs” assume that Floyd always is at his best physically come fight night… He is GREAT because he wins no matter WHAT transpires in the ring or who is in front of him….Injuries, bad hands, layoffs, size disadvantages and power deficits have not stopped Mayweather in 43 bouts…..He is a living legend and one of the BEST to ever do it…. Witness history..

Posted October 8, 2012 5:32 pm 


SREDMOND

You guys kill me pretending that Floyd Mayweather would suddenly become a sitting duck for any fighter….He is a serious defensive boxer and would not be getting leveled by anyone in the first round… Pernell Whitaker was a defensive master who never had Floyds offense and none of the terrific fighters he faced knocked him out…. Oscar, Chavez, and Tito…. Its simply BLUSTER to suppose that the very hard hitting Tommy Hearns would lay waste to Floyd in short order…. Nice talk, but we saw Tommy lose, we NEVER saw Floyd lose and certainly NOT by KO…. Tommy Hearns is an ATG, amazing fighter but Floyd Mayweather ranks up there with the best and no man has punked him in the ring…

Posted October 8, 2012 5:29 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

OOPS! “who, yes, was along and a banger….”

Posted October 8, 2012 5:25 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

Floyd has fought one “long” fighter in his whole career and that was Corrales. He destroyed who yeas was long and a banger, but please do not compare him with Hearns. Hearns had speed, power and a wing span that was huge! Corrales was slow and in nthat fight he was definitely underweight. I still say he would have lost to Floyd anyhow.
If Floyd had taken on contemporay tall guys we would have something to see how he would have done. Look Manny would get starched fater than Floyd as he would stand and trade rather than get cut up by a piston jab all night long.
Again if Floyd had fought more guys like Cotto at 140 or 147 we would see how he might have fared against quality welters. But beating Ortiz, Judah, Marquez, Baldomir and Gatti in no way compares to Duran, Cuevas, Leonard, Benitez etc.

Posted October 8, 2012 5:24 pm 


pugfan

when some boxing fans state that Hearns has lost to lesser fighters then Floyd,not everyone may consider Leonard,Hagler,and Barkley to be lesser fighters then Floyd? Urya Grant dose not count because Tommy was near the end,and just about retired by that time. i do not believe that Tommy would have had to k.o. Floyd to beat him. Tommy could have out boxed Floyd because Tommy had some pretty sweet boxing ability himself.

Posted October 8, 2012 4:56 pm 


Pain

Cotto and DLH tested lil Floyd a little. Castillo tested cotto even more. Castillo for cripes sake! Hearns, Duran, Leonard, Hagler will all put Floyd’s shoulder rolling ass on the canvas at will. These are the realest champions on the history of boxing we’re talking about. Not some overly media hyped woman-beater.

Posted October 8, 2012 4:48 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

Kenny I am not saying Hearns would have beaten Hagler if he had boxed. I am saying he did what he felt he had to do and hindsight tells us it was wrong. Sure he hurt Hagler and broke his hand doing it, but both Duran and Leonard showed that boxing was the better way. Oh, I thought Haglet beat Leonard!
These Floydbots just started following boxing just like Pactards. They feel that because their men have 6 and 8 titles that they are the best ever. I am of the opinion that yes they are also very good, maybe even great. But with so many titles today, I could win one and stay undefeated by picking which of 1,000titles I prefer and defending against wh makes me the most $$.
Robinson was the greatest ever but at 147 he took more punishment than he did at 135 and 147. Ali was a dancing master but against certain fighters he took punishment. Whitaker was unreal at defence but he too took punishment facing the best.
We saw Floyd vs Cotto where he could not potshot. Can you imagine facing Cotto before he was damaged? What about Duran? Margarito, Williams to name a few modern guys he did not face but yet those guys faced each other, winning and losing. His Floydbots will say they lost so Floyd would have beaten them. It does not work that way because styles make fights. Look at history; Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Norton. Hearns would murder Floyd from 147 up.
I am a realist; if he tried to go down under 147, no way he beats Floyd. He was too skinny at 145 vs Leonard. Size makes a difference. Hagler could not come down to 154. McCallum could not go down to 147 an expect to beat Curry and McCrory. This is why we have weight classes.

Posted October 8, 2012 4:14 pm 


philly shell

I do think Floyd’s one of the best P4P fighters I’ve ever seen, but against Hearns? I dunno, I think Tommy’s height, reach and power advantages would be too much for Mayweather… He’d have to move like crazy, like he did against Corrales (RIP) to squeeze out a decision.

Posted October 8, 2012 3:58 pm 


Kenny Weldon

Bible of boxing….Hagler had a great corner and was a full pledged middleweight.He had a great corner and knew how to prepare Marvin for Thomas .Goody Petroneli WAS A GREAT TEACHER….I know,so is Manny Stewart.But no one can teach a poodle to whip a pit bull dog…..Much too little credit is given to Goodie Petroneli……God bless….kenny weldon

Posted October 8, 2012 3:45 pm 


Kenny Weldon

Shredmond….You havent seen,nor has Floyd, anyone like Thomas Hearns standing in front of him with weapons to take him out.Thomas would take him out inside of five rounds.Mosely is no Thomas Hearns by a long shot and he was hurting Floyd. Floyd as a lightweight is the real thing,even as a junior welter,but Thomas Hearns would have stopped him…….God bless….kenny weldon

Posted October 8, 2012 3:38 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

Great posts Fight Aficionado! These are my very thoughts. On any given day great fighters will beat each other!

Posted October 8, 2012 2:56 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

After hearns ko-ed Duran he felt he do the same to Hagler and he almost did. But Hagler was a natural 160 Hearns was not at that time natural at 160. He chose to war with Hagler and lost. had he decided to box who knows?
How do you think Floyd would have done against Hagler? You people are placing him on some pedastal! Hagler never moved up as he knew he could not beat tSPinks or the 175 guys. I am giving credit to guys to decide to challenge themselves by moving up but at least do not pick and choose.
Styles make fights. At 140 and 147 and now 154, Floyd has picked who earns the most money at the less risk.
he did not face Forrest, Margarito, Paul Williams etc and was life and death vs Cotto. A Cotto who wa clearly past hie best and who was destroyed by Manny. If you use the catchweight and size etc then the same applies to his fight with Marquez or Ward’s vs Dawson. I repeat if Floyd had faced the very best at 140 and 147 his stats would not be so great. If you are great you face the best.
Lebron James was untouchable as a schoolboy but it took him years to show he was truly great vs the very best in the NBA. Floyd has HOF talent but not HOF guts. Like my all time fav Super Roy, he will regret not having tested his skills against the very best when he was at his peak.

Posted October 8, 2012 2:54 pm 


Fight Aficionado in Boston

“Floyd has neither Ray Leonards skills or Hitmans power ,and he is a short guy who does not like getting hit. Hearns ,like he did Duran,would stop him …..God bless….kenny weldon…” – Cosign. These are the reasonable comments from a world class trainer. In contrast we have a lot of nut hugging toolboxes polluting this thread with total nonsense.

Posted October 8, 2012 2:52 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

TJ I agree with you 1000%. Sredmond, I know that you know boxing but for you to compare Corrales to hearns is blasphemous!. Corrrales was taller than Floyd but he was slower than molasses.
To those who question Hearns’s chin, I say that is a valid point. However, he faced many big punchers and yes he got hurt because he went for broke. Speaking of broker, he broke his had on Hagler’s head o he might have ko-ed him.
When Hearns decided to box he was not koe-ed except for the Leonard fight where he clearly was overtrained and came in way too light. I make no excuses because he lost fair and square. many oters have when facing the bright lights of a huge fight in Las vegas. Punchers like Shavers have said that when you are slugging and get caught you are prone to a knockdown or ko. There were times he boxed and times he slugged. And his ko’s came against guys who were big and strong or who like Leonard could hit really hard.
I agree Floyd would compare quite favourably against guys around 130 and 140. From 140 and up he does not because based on the way he fights he wil not take chances to deter the bigger guys. Defence is fine but not even Pep who was a master could keep Sandy Saddler off him. Floyd lost power when he moved up and was afraid to test his chin vs bigger men. Sugar Ray R was the greatest ever. He started at 135 and quickly moved to 147 where he was just so dominant. But when he moved up against bigger men it wore him down although he beat them.
Manny has experienced the same. Taking shots from bigger men shorten your career, Robinson was winning at 175 but the heat and the weight of a bigger man wore him down. This is why I keep telling Boxtrass that yes skills are important but if they are equally skilled 99.99999% the bigger man wins!
Regarding Leonard and Norris. He was away for years and had no right being back in the ring. I respected his skills but he was never my favourite. What Floydbots don’t realize is that by being in those wars against the very best, a fighter will lose some and win some. But Floyd always says he fears for his health and that people like Ali etc. are today zombies. He is correct but that is boxing. if you wish to considered in the upper echelon then you can’t pick and chose. He is undefeated because he has avoide the very best of his era.
If he had beaten all those guys he would probably be considered in that zone! On any given day top boxers may lose to each other even if one guy one the 1st match clearly. Look at Zale and Graziano. Hearns and Leonard and Duran and Leonard; Ali and Frazier. A loss will kill you or make you stronger but failing to take on he best in your class leaves too many unanswered questions. This is why Floyd is an enigma. He refused to face Manny. I do not see Manny competing against the top 140-154 eiter. I think he might have held his own between 125-135 and that’s it.

Posted October 8, 2012 2:00 pm 


B.L. Morgan

This would be a no contest.
The Hitman is far too large & strong. With his fast jab he’d set up Floyd and bomb him out in under 5 rounds.
But the truth is, the fight never would have happened. If Floyd avoided Antonio Margarito and Paul Williams he’d never agree to even be in the same state whenever Tommy Hearns was having a fight.
Can’t say that I’d blame him either.
The Hitman at his best was a scary fight for any Welterweight in history.

Sincerely
B.L. Morgan
Author of Red Simon: Vampire Punk
Release date-10/19/2012

Posted October 8, 2012 12:40 pm 


Swedish Boxing Fan

Thomas “The Hitman” Hearns vs. Bernard “The Executioner” Hopkins, now that was a fight who would have been interesting in my oppinion. Both are 185 cm tall but Hearns had reach advantage. Hopkins loves to fight more aggresive fighters and Hearns was a tough cookie. Marvin Hagler took out Hearns in 3 rounds and said a few years ago back after Hopkins defeated Ronald “Winky” Wright that Hopkins was a great fighter and that he belived he would never have had a chanse to defeat Hopkins in the ring if they had fought, so that makes you think a bit extra considering that Hagler always been a good guy to never talk crap. Thomas Hearns only chanse in my view to win would be to KO or TKO Hopkins early while Hopkins would win any decision contest (UD, MD or at least SD) or a late TKO.

Posted October 8, 2012 12:39 pm 


SREDMOND

Tommys heart got him knocked out in 3 round against Hagler… Mayweather fights out if his head as well as anyone who ever put on gloves… Dream on about 1st round KO’s of FMJ, ain’t happening unless he fights too damn long.

Posted October 8, 2012 12:38 pm 


RAY GORDON REID

TOMMY WOULD BEAT FLOYDY 12.25 PM 10/8 2012

Posted October 8, 2012 12:22 pm 


SREDMOND

Vivid Fantasy world Tommy Hearns was Great but what top fighter did he KO in 1 one round? especially a guy of Floyd caliber… AGAIN its easy to create ridiculous outcomes when fights could never happen but a 1 round KO basicaly says the gap between Hearns and Mayweather is the same between Tommy and someone in the Golden Gloves…GROSS overestimation… AGAIN Floyd has never been down as a professional and suddenly he is going to get knocked out in the first round?? Makes for great online theater and hyperbole but its not a realistic depiction of the combatants…. Ray Leonard has spoken on the difficulties he would have faced in the ring with FMJ… And this is a guy who left Tommy slack in the ropes in 14 rounds…

Posted October 8, 2012 12:21 pm 


mark

tommy dose not run and with a smaller ring mayweather would last 1 round. sugar ray also would beat mayweather . tommy and ray have to much heart for mayweather

Posted October 8, 2012 12:14 pm 


SREDMOND

Tommy could not even show effective movement against a plodding Hagler and showed NO ability to adjust in the ring…. How is he a BETTER mover than Floyd Mayweather Jr??

Posted October 8, 2012 12:08 pm 


SREDMOND

How is Tommy a better mover than Floyd Mayweather Jr….???? This fighter has literally run circles around guys and created retarded angles against other fast guys…. Tommy had a sweet straight right hand and he was faster than given credit for but his foot speed was not in league with Floyds…He also lacked Mayweathers stamina as the rounds piled up…. Floyd is usually the rising tide as the night moves forward as Hearns got tired Mayweather would start tagging him… I see a very interesting fight but writing off Mayweather is hard to understand given Hearns well known lapses….

Posted October 8, 2012 12:06 pm 


Neil (pomy)

Hearns could move around the ring like a mini Ali at his peak … and with those long sharp accurate punches; I cant see how Floyd could get close enough to land effectively …. not with the style Floyd has. For me it comes down to size, power and movement.

Posted October 8, 2012 12:05 pm 


Neil (pomy)

Floyd is fast and is a defensive genius …. but against a peak Hearns, I can only see one winner; Hearns.

Posted October 8, 2012 12:03 pm 


Neil (pomy)

Speed, power, size, length, movement, work-rate are all advantages that I see for Tommy ….. and I have never seen a more accurate knockout artist in my life. Floyd has a better defence, is a better counter-puncher … but other than that I cant see where Floyd would have an advantage.

Posted October 8, 2012 12:01 pm 


SREDMOND

When we give an honest dissection the only areas that Hearns exceeds Floyd are power and length…. We have seen Mayweather deal with those assets before…. Tommy lost to the best boxers he faced for the most part and both times he was stopped…Duran was not the defender that Mayweather was and that right hand would have killed Jesus if it connected…. Tommys finest moment in the ring.

Posted October 8, 2012 11:30 am 


SREDMOND

The debate on fighting weight is relevant ie 140 vs 147… But lets get real Hearns nickname does not mean he was the most accurate puncher in boxing and he employed that against slower targets normally than FMJ…. Floy was avoiding shots from guys at 130 and there is no debating that fighters in those classes are faster of hand than bigger boxers (normally)…. Floyd being “made for Hearns” does not really compute, Mayweather has not proven to be “made for anyone” he is a VERY difficult boxer to hit and thus far impossible to beat (has not happened) Again Tommy was a beast, but he had more flaws than FMJ…. Having punching power is NOT enough against Floyd we have seen plenty of guys who could have knocked him out if they could get enough leather on him but they were evaded and out boxed…. Hearns shows no special ability to connect in my mind…. Especially because Mayweather would be on high alert for that right hand coming down the pike… AGAIN tough fight for both guys and each has some advantages but “Floyd being made for anyone” is a SUPER uproven theory.

Posted October 8, 2012 11:25 am 


Neil (pomy)

Floyd-v-Pryor would be Floyds fight to take imho …. but Hearns would be all wrong for him. Floyd would aviod 147 until Hearns had moved-up.

Posted October 8, 2012 11:11 am 


Neil (pomy)

With Hearns speed and accuracy I see no problem there. Mayweathers style would be made for him imho. Hearns had the “Hitman” tag for a good reason. Obviously, it is all about opinions …. but for me Hearns would walk away with it. The speed, the power, the accuracy and the offence would be too much for Floyd. I doubt Floyd could counter him. Back in the late 70′s / early 80′s; Mayweather would not of become a welterweight; he’d of stayed at 140.

Posted October 8, 2012 11:10 am 


SREDMOND

Hearns would have to land flush and therein lies the problem… Floyd Mayweather is not standing there taking open shots from a known power puncher the way Duran did pasted on ther ropes so he could become part of Tommys highlight reel…. We see a more stationary Mayweather these days but the younger Floyd was a lightening bug who could get in and out at will…. NO ONE has knocked Mayeweather down legitimately let alone out, and don’t bore me with the Zab Judah off balance moment…. Floyds a beast, thats why we have to look at guys who are punchy and retired 20 plus years ago to have a shot…

Posted October 8, 2012 11:00 am 


REM

Hearns and Leonard r pretty much the same size as Martinez. All fought from 147-160 i think thats kinda telling. Lol y’all know i gotta throw sum b.s into the game.

Posted October 8, 2012 10:41 am 


Kenny Weldon

Floyd has neither Ray Leonards skills or Hitmans power ,and he is a short guy who does not like getting hit. Hearns ,like he did Duran,would stop him …..God bless….kenny weldon…

Posted October 8, 2012 10:37 am 


SREDMOND

Even Ray Leonard said that he would not even try to attack Mayweathers chin because of how easily he avoids getting hit…It is testimony from a great fighter as to just how damn terrific FMJ is in the ring….There are literally parades when someone lands a clean blow and Cotto will likely go into the HOF for giving him a bloody nose… Meanwhile Leonard was getting his retina blown out fighting Tommy…. Reality is that defensively Mayweather is a superior fighter to Hearns, Leonard and Duran and its a tremendous assett when in the ring……On a given night he could be any of them…

Posted October 8, 2012 10:20 am 


SREDMOND

I am big on respecting Greats from the past and their legendary status… Ray Leonard was a washed up fighter who had sustained a loss to a then LW albeit a GREAT LW (Duran) in his prime….By the time Ray was 34 he was being battered and embarassed by Terry Norris who was considered a talented yet chinny fighter….Tommy Hearns had sustained two bad stoppages along the way albeit to legends (Leonard& Hagler)….I see no massive advantage for Leonard outside of punching power and willingness to produce volume…. Floyd Mayweather is a SUPER SMART boxer who does what it takes to win…. As for Duran Floyd frustrates him and owns him over 12 rounds….These contests will never come to pass but Mayweather is simply one of the BEST I have ever seen, EVERY one of his opponents discusses how damn hard it is to make clean contact and how AWESOME he is in the ring…. We can churn out excuses all day for why he kept coming up the scales and remaining untouchable but the numbers don’t like…

Posted October 8, 2012 10:11 am 


Neil (pomy)

As a lightweight/junior-welterweight Floyd is one of the greatest ever …. but at welterweight, against a true welterweight great, he falls short.

Posted October 8, 2012 10:07 am 


Neil (pomy)

I cant see Floyd doing well against Hearns ….. i think it would be a very painfull night. Stylewise, Floyd would do better against Ray Leonard …. but Ray was just too good. As for Robinson? Not much of a contest. Mayweather (along with Pacquaio and Roy Jones) is one of the best fighters I have seen in the last 2o years …… but the likes of HEarns, Duran and Leonard would be too much for Floyd. I think Floyd could beat a prime Aaron Pryor …. but not the likes of the Hearns/LEonard/Duran.

Posted October 8, 2012 10:05 am 


SREDMOND

We also have to remember that at 147 pounds Tommy Hearns did not have the best legs in boxing and that was during his prime… His right hand was dynamite but he will never be remembered for the “start to finish” stamina that Mayweather has…. Again if Mayweather knows your primary weapon he can avoid it and he has faster hands prime for prime than Hit Man Hearns…. Tommys a legend and very dangerous but again discounting Floyd completely against anyone is pretty foolish… He makes fighters look inept and he can do it over a FULL 12 round bout…

Posted October 8, 2012 9:54 am 


Hidalgo

“go for broke ala Sugar Ray” this is one of the main reasons Sugar was so much better than Floyd is today. Jr. doesn’t have one grain of this salt in him.

Posted October 8, 2012 9:53 am 


SREDMOND

I will go on record and say that Mayweather could compete with or best ANY fighter in history… Like all boxers the right punch could send him into space by virtue of the fact he is human but unlike many of the GREATS we know of he rarely makes mistakes and is simply a defensive master… On a given night could Hearns, Robinson, or Leonard win? Sure they could but the flipside is also true…. Mayweather is a special talent and at an age where most of the GREATS had been taken down or made to look mortal he is still undefeated thru 5 weight classes….

Posted October 8, 2012 9:47 am 


Neil (pomy)

typo – “welterweight ALL the way too cruiserweight”

Posted October 8, 2012 9:45 am 


Neil (pomy)

Hearns was just too big and powerful ….. and with speed. Hearns went from welterweight andd the way to cruiserweight ….. whereas Floyd went from super featherweight to light middleweight. So I doubt it would be much of a contest …. Hearns wins fairly easily.

Posted October 8, 2012 9:44 am 


SREDMOND

Hearns size and length would have been problematic for Mayweather but Tommy was also a flawed fighter who despite having sound boxing skills was hittable and capable of being tactically overwhelmed…. Hagler drew him into a toe to toe battle and overwhelmed him in 3 rounds, Leonard found a way to outslug and defeat him despite being down on the cards going into the latter rounds…. Floyd Mayweather is defensively BETTER than Leonard, Hagler, or Hearns and he is super smart in the ring…. I see a potential modified Diego Corrales scenario where a prime Mayweather just potshots Tommy and frustrates…

Posted October 8, 2012 9:32 am 


Curtley

I think Floyd is a wonderful fighter but hate all this BS from Boxtra saying he is the GOAT because of his 41-0 record. Ray Robinson was 40-0 before he fought Middleweight champ Lamotta and was something like 130-1 after that going on a 90 odd fight winning streak against some top fighters and some bums. Ricardo Lopez retired at 51-0, Pep was 62-0 before his first loss and the list goes on. The only way to really judge is to look at opposition quality and Floyd is behind some of the old timers as boxing is now more of a minority sport which I think balances out the fact that humans have evolved. Don’t see Floyd even getting in the ring with Tommy as although he is great he has never taken and never will take a fight in which he is an underdog or even joint favourite. Can any Mayweather fans tell he a fight where the general consensus was that he would lose?

Posted October 8, 2012 9:08 am 


SpaceCowboy

Hitman would have mopped the ring with Floyd

Posted October 8, 2012 7:59 am 


Mbuyiseli

No way in hell, Floyd fights Hearns. 2 problems for Floyd would have to deal with the one of the best jab ever, the best right he would not see coming that would put him to sleep. Mayweather would stay at 140lbs. I doubt it would go past six rounds.

Posted October 8, 2012 7:25 am 


theunderdog

If Floyd is reluctant to face a former flyweight how is he going to share the ring with a monster like Hearns? In this site many people come to the conclusion that Floyd is to small to fight Martinez let alone Hearns. Tommy was tremendously effective in destroying shorter men like Pipino Cuevas, Duran and Roldan. In fairness to Floyd he is not a career welterweight and perhaps better dream fights for him would be with the likes of Duran, Chavez, Arguello, Prior, Tszyu or even Salvador Sanchez.

Posted October 8, 2012 4:06 am 


Old Man

Would be an interesting fight. Floyd has a very special defense but if the Thomas cracks it he could be in trouble.

Posted October 8, 2012 1:15 am 


The Bible of Boxing

Leonard would beat Jr worse than he beat his dad. Like father like son!

Posted October 7, 2012 11:57 pm 


Hidalgo

And yeah, Tommy WAS afraid of Marvin. He most certainly was. Eyes don’t lie and neither does body language. Tommy was intimidated. Then he got KTFO.

Posted October 7, 2012 11:39 pm 


Hidalgo

Gonzo, there’s a difference between taunting an opponent and truly and intentionally taking a punch. Floyd messed with Shane and he got tagged. That’s it. Floyd straightened up after that and went to work because that’s when he realized he came within a pubic hair’s diameter of getting floored for good. No sir. Floyd f’d up and paid for it. That’s all. Poke a dog with a stick he might bite. Floyd got bit bad.

BTW, I did watch that replay–several times. Floyd didn’t signal Shane to hit him, Shane faked him then nailed him. It was clear to me.

Posted October 7, 2012 11:36 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Patrick2.. Firstly, I never tell lies.. I’m a straight talker and I don’t mince my words for no man. Secondly, Floyd might be a lot of things but I don’t think he’s a liar bro. I’m not saying that there might be a slim chance that you are right. However, I very much doubt it.

Posted October 7, 2012 11:32 pm 


sal.o

To Patrick 2,,its not about how hard you hit,,,example Ernie Shavers perhaps the hardest heavy weight puncher ever!! when he did get a fighter in trouble he some times was unable to finish him off,,I”m not saying Floyd is not good ,,Floyd is great!! Pernell Whitaker was like Floyd accurate hitter ,,best defense Possibly he would break down opponents heart and mind,,but when he had some one in trouble he did not finish them off ,,like Floyd..its just a fact ,,no argument..Floyd is still a great fighter…

Posted October 7, 2012 11:16 pm 


Hidalgo

“if you actually watch the tape you can see him motion to Shane to hit him a split second before he caught him with it.” I’m going to watch that tape again, Gonzo. If I see that Floyd invited that punch, I’ll admit it. If I see it.

Posted October 7, 2012 11:03 pm 


Patrick2

And let me add, Money demoralizes his opponents by making them constantly miss, and then countering back, over and over and over again. NOT, by playing macho and getting clocked — that’s not Floyd’s style.

Posted October 7, 2012 10:32 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Patrick2.. I totally understand where you’re coming from bro, I really do. However, I vehemently disagree with you on this because I know for a fact I’m right. I’ve spoken to Money on numerous occasions and he told me to my face that he deliberately allowed Shane to catch him with that right hand for two reasons. Firstly, as I’m sure you are no doubt aware, prior to that fight everybody and his dog was saying Floyd’s chin was suspect at the higher weights and that it had never been battle tested against a puncher of Shane’s repute. Floyd has always known his mandible was forged out of the rarest granite and he wanted to shut up all the doubters and naysayers and prove to them he could take a shot, hence why he allowed Shane a free shot. Also, he knew that if he took Shane’s best shot it would immediately shatter all Shane’s confidence and he would become completely demoralized and start to tire very quickly as deep down Shane knew that catching Money with a lucky punch was his only chance of winning the fight. Like I said, Money even motioned Shane to hit him with it right before he did. Now I know it was a risky strategy on his part, but you have to understand that Money is cut from a different cloth to other fighters and he’s a master of the art of psychological warfare and he’s willing to take risks like that because he knows they will bear fruit in the long run.

Posted October 7, 2012 9:56 pm 


Patrick2

@ SalO. If by a “good finisher” you mean throwing everything you have to get a stoppage or KO, you’re right. But you could say Floyd is a “good finisher” if you mean systematically ripping his opponent’s heart out/breaking his spirit by making him miss, again and again and again, while getting countered again and again and again. Floyd is a mathematician in the ring, he calculates everything, he rarely takes chances. He breaks you down to small bits then eats you up. He’s not about landing one big shot for a big finish.

Posted October 7, 2012 9:15 pm 


sal.o

Good finishers in boxing,,of course Ray Leonard,,Chavez Sr.,,Kelly Pavlik,,Wifredo Gomez,,Tito Trinidad,,,Aaron Pryor,,,Mike Tyson,,DeLaHoya,,,Adrien Broner,, Antonio DeMarco to name a few…..

Posted October 7, 2012 9:09 pm 


sal.o

To Boxtradamus what the heck are you talking about ,,first im not here to try and start an argument but to make people aware of boxing in a fighters point of view…look there is no such thing as finishing of a fight with a win,,like you say he finish the fighter off with a win..first Mayweather is not! not! a good finisher,,when you talk to people that know about boxing and say he finish him off they would take it as if the fighter stop the other guy .even the hardest puncher of all time Ernie shavers was not a good finisher but he had the most ko”s

Posted October 7, 2012 8:53 pm 


Beeer party aka Unbiased Dane

Boxtradamus : well without speed you wont hit enyone.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:50 pm 


Patrick2

@ Gonzo Let me change my statement from: to think that Floyd LET Mosley catch him with that huge shot “is crazy” to if you believe this ‘you’re crazy.’ I don’t care what you think you saw, that shot Mosley threw was a lights-out bomb, an equivalent to stepping in front of a speeding bus. Getting caught with shots like that takes rounds off a fighter’s career. And Floyd is about making money, he’s not a blood-n-guts fighter like a Gatti. So I’ll repeat: Floyd likely had some ring rust and thought he could react a little quicker than he did and got caught big time, and almost paid a huge price (getting KTFO) for his foolish bravado.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:40 pm 


Boxtradamus

OH I FORGOT. You can also LOOK at Chavez Sr. vs. Meldrick Taylor and Tarver vs. Danny Green and Kayode.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:20 pm 


Boxtradamus

And if you didn’t know that SKILLS and Boxing IQ are GREATER than SPEED and POWER than just re watch Pacquiao vs. Marquez III. You can also re watch Holyfield vs. Tyson I and II…And if that’s still not enough for you then watch Hopkins vs. Pascal.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:11 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Patrick2.. I know for a fact Floyd let Shane crack him with that shot because he bloody well told me he did. Also, if you actually watch the tape you can see him motion to Shane to hit him a split second before he caught him with it.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:08 pm 


Boxtradamus

hecdog-YOU need an education on Boxing. Luckily for YOU I’m HERE to educate YOU. The Most important factors in Boxing are not SPEED and POWER. They are SKILLS and Boxing IQ. Floyd has more SKILLS and Boxing IQ than Leonard, Hearns, and anyone ELSE that you can mention. Therefore the probability that Mayweather WINS vs. Leonard and Hearns is MUCH GREATER than the probability that Leonard and Hearns beats Mayweather. Mayweather beats em both 9 out of 10 times. Maybe even 19 out of 20.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:07 pm 


Boxtradamus

sal.o-Fights can be WON by stoppage OR by decision. They can also be WON by disqualification. Therefore there are 3 ways to finish someone OFF. Floyd has almost finished guys off every way that they can be finished off. Judah and Ortiz were getting SPANKED so BAD that they tried to finish themselves OFF by DQ…..Finishing with a W means finishing with a WIN. Floyd’s WIN percentage is UNTOPPABLE. He finishes most guys OFF on the scorecards by the 8th round leaving them in need of a knockout…..IF Leonard was the BEST at finishing guys off when they’re hurt like you SAY he IS then he must be POOR at hurting someone. Because he finished his career with LESS knockouts than Mayweather.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:02 pm 


hecdog

For those of you that think Floyd Mayweather was faster than Sugar Ray Leonard & Tommy Hearns, I’m telling you now, both were faster than Floyd Mayweather. I watched them train live and spar live in their prime, and I also watched Floyd train and spar live even though it was almost impossible to see him. Leonard was so much faster while throwing combinations, and much more power. Hearns was vicious. His long arms were pistons. He was faster than Floyd, and forget about the power. He would have killed Floyd. Let’s also not forget Wilfredo Benitez, I also watched him train and fight live, and his defense was better than anyone period. He was amazing. I would take Leonard, Hearns and Leonard to beat Floyd. Leonard and Hearns by KO. Don’t be fooled by Leonard’s smile and boxing, that guy could punch.

Posted October 7, 2012 7:56 pm 


Boxtradamus

nicolas-I THANK you for mentioning Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore. Those were two GREAT WINS by Marciano. Do you know why those were two GREAT WINS??? Because those were vs. CHAMPS….. Two GREAT WINS is more than most Fighters get in their ENTIRE careers… but we’re not talking about MOST Fighters. We’re talking about Mayweather. Mayweather has 9 GREAT WINS in his last 10 Fights. WOW!! Marciano falls WAY SHORT of that. I never SAID that Marciano wasn’t impressive. I SAID that he’s not more impressive than Mayweather. But its nothing for his GREAT Grandkids to hang their heads about. NO ONE is more impressive than Mayweather.

Posted October 7, 2012 7:54 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Hildalgo.. I’m afraid I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with all the parts of your post where you disagreed with me. You’re one of the better posters on here (not quite in my class, sir, but there’s no shame in that as it’s common knowledge on here that I am the best poster this site has ever seen) so I’m not going to unleash the beast on you like I normally do with those who dare to disagree with me or take issue with anything I’ve said. That said, I don’t have a problem with the parts of your post where you didn’t disagree with me at at if that’s any consolation? One thing I will say though is Ray Leonard might be fast and pack a punch but he’s nowhere near as fleet of hand or foot as Money, and he’s not as quick in the old brain department as him either. Floyd is a living. breathing testament to the sport’s evolution. He is the pinnacle. He’s as good as it gets. In fact, I’d even go as far as saying he’s better than it gets. I’ve been following this sport since the Dark Ages and I’ve certainly never seen anything like him before. He’s in a class totally by himself, why the hell do you think that yellow chump won’t take the test for love nor money? (see what I did there?) What a lot of you cats don’t realize is we’ve not come close to seeing Floyd at his best yet.. He’s only operating on about 25%. I can assure you if that little dog eating midget takes the test Floyd will obliterate him with consummate ease.. it’ll be like an adult male Silverback snapping the limbs of a gingerbread man off.. it won’t even be a contest.. that’s why Freddie ‘The Joke Coach’ Roach won’t let him anywhere near Floyd.

Posted October 7, 2012 7:51 pm 


Patrick2

Tark, to be fair, Leonard was done as a boxer by the time he meet Norris. In Leonard’s prime, Norris would more than likely have got beaten. Saying this, I still think Floyd is a much more talented fighter than Ray.

Posted October 7, 2012 6:51 pm 


TARK

Leonard was almost 2 years younger than Floyd is when slick Terry Norris beat the crap out of Ray… No part of Leonard’s upper body was beyond the reach of the quick fisted Norris—a guy with a glass chin Lonard wasn’t good enough to take advantage of… The truth is, Leonard didn’t fight that many fast, highly skilled boxers, and when he faced Norris he had to pick his ass up off the floor a couple times and nearly got shut out… It was embarrassing. Mayweather is about 3 times as great a boxer as Norris was.

Posted October 7, 2012 6:45 pm 


>bpm

Another fantasy match up. Again its seems as boxing was way better back then. I like Hearns and i dislike Floyd. but that doesnt make me say that Hearns would beat Floyd. I dont want to provoke enyone but all this nostalgia for the old days makes you sound like old farts.

Posted October 7, 2012 6:34 pm 


Patrick2

@ Gonzo — Money didn’t LET Mosley catch him with that big shot. No smart boxer, and Floyd is one of the smartest, is not going to let his opponent tee off on him. I would guess it was a little ring rust — Floyd’s reflexes were a touch slower than normal after the long layoff, and Mosley was simply able to catch him. Again, to think Floyd LET Mosley land that big bomb is crazy — that shot had the potential to be lights out of ANY 147 pounder.

Posted October 7, 2012 6:25 pm 


Patrick2

Hearns was NOT afraid of Hagler. Tommy’s problem was he badly hurt his left hand early in the fight, which more than likely led to his early demise.

Posted October 7, 2012 6:18 pm 


Lman

Martinez is actually smaller than Hearns and Floyd wont fight him…

Posted October 7, 2012 5:55 pm 


Lman

Floyd could have faught Paul Williams, I know he’s not Hearns but my point is Floyd is smart, he knows he is the better boxer but he wont give up too many advantages i.e height + reach, if he doesnt have to.

Posted October 7, 2012 5:50 pm 


sal.o

To Gonzo the Dragonborn,,,please dont make any more comments PLEASE!!! you obviously dont know anything about boxing!!!!I can tell that you only started watching boxing a couple of years ago.. Do you actually know who Duran was??? I can tell you dont…..

Posted October 7, 2012 5:48 pm 


Hidalgo

“juiced out of their tits” LOL! I’m trying to visualize that…..

Posted October 7, 2012 5:40 pm 


Hidalgo

As for a Hearns/Mayweather matchup, I say it’s a much tougher call than anyone could imagine. As a welterweight, only two guys figured out Tommy Hearns and had the ability to get to his chin. That long jab of his was lighting fast and powerful. IMO, the main reason Hearns got KOd by Hagler was because Tommy was afraid of him from the get-go. I could see it in Tommy’s eyes when they came to the center of the ring.

Anyhow, Floyd would have serious problems with Tommy’s reach as well as his height and overall size advantage–Floyd has NEVER fought anyone remotely similiar to Tommy Hearns. And Tommy was a deadly puncher. Deadly.

Posted October 7, 2012 5:38 pm 


Hidalgo

Naaaaahhh! Gonzo, just like Mayweather Ray never closed his eyes when fighting. He’d watch the punches come til they connected with his face. And because of that I disagree with you big time when you say Floyd would be “too fast and slick” for Leonard. Sugar was also fast and slick and as a welterweight he had serious KO power. Plus, Ray was mentally tougher than Floyd is. Floyd has never faced an opponent with the complete boxing package that made up Sugar Ray Leonard. Regardless, fantasy fight I’d like to see is Pryor/Mayweather. Then we’d see some you-know-what flying! Either way–Leonard over Mayweather because Leonard could easily match him in skills and speed but beat him with power and toughness.

Posted October 7, 2012 5:34 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Money let Mosley land that right hand because he wanted to see what he had.. it was a reconnaissance mission to see if Shane was packing serious thump. However, Money wouldn’t do that against Hearns because it’s common knowledge that the Hitman is packing heavy thump.

Posted October 7, 2012 5:28 pm 


B Red

If Mosley could catch Floyd with the right hand and hurt him. Tommy would ko floyd

Posted October 7, 2012 5:12 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Edit* he is to hit

Posted October 7, 2012 5:05 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Hagler would beat Floyd but he would be too fast and slick for Leonard and Duran though. I don’t think some of you cats realize how fast Floyd is or how difficult his is to hit.

Posted October 7, 2012 5:04 pm 


The Real American Oak

Floyd couldn’ touch him. And when floyd did the shoulder roll that right hand would follow him all the way back, touch his chin and poof. Floyd NEVER would be undefeated in the 70s or 80s

Posted October 7, 2012 4:24 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

You also have to factor in that Floyd is a clean, juice free athlete who relies on good old-fashioned hard work and dedication to achieve greatness, whereas all those 70s and 80s American greats were all juiced out of their tits on industrial dosages of illegal PEDs and Hearns was no exception.. guy looked like a praying mantis that had been shot full of s.t.e.r.o.i.d.s and stretched on a rack for 3 days. Hard work and dedication>>>artificial enhancers and medication. Take the test Manny you yellow chump.

Posted October 7, 2012 4:22 pm 


Jisvi

I think Maywaether eat a prime hearns a-live. Spinks was great but Floyd is a fighter from another leaque. Floyd will check his style out in 3 rounds and will out box him .

Posted October 7, 2012 3:40 pm 


sal.o

To Boxtradamus: There is no doubt that Mayweather is in all time great,,,,but my subject was ,that he is not or will ever be a good finisher ,,what the heck does finishing with a W mean? ,,,listen Mayweather is a great fighter but when he has a guy in trouble he cant seem to finish him off,,example ,,the Cotto fight,,Cotto was hurt but he did not finish him off,,even Pacquiao is not a good finisher,,,Sugar Ray was the best at finishing off an opponent when he was hurt…..thats why Mayweather would have never stop Tommy Hearns….

Posted October 7, 2012 3:29 pm 


nicolas

BOXTRADAMUS: WHile I have been critical of Marciano’s career mainly because he never fought Nino Valdez after Valdez had defeated Charles, you comment that he never defeated a top ten fighter is absurd. Who was Jersey Joe Walcott, who was Ezzard Charles, who was Archie Moore, even Joe Louis was still formidable during his comeback, and outweighed Marciano by some 20 pounds, as someone pointed out to me when I criticized Marciano for never fighting Valdez who would also have had a weight advantage over him. While you might point out the losses these opponents had, they ussually fought more often which made losses more likely to happen. In the last 8 yrs Mayweather has fought only some 10 times. I think Mayweather is the greatest fighter at Jr. Lightweight, and would suggest that he be a good shot to beat both Benetiz and Duran. Leonard and Hearns however, I just don’t see that. The competitiion during their era was just so much better as many more young men wanted to get into that sport compared as today.

Posted October 7, 2012 3:29 pm 


Paudy

People talk about the old fighters like they were gods!! It was the fact that these guys
Were the first real generation of boxers broadcast around the world on tv that lead to their fame! There is no major gulf in class between the old boxers and the new champions like floyd. Also nowadays boxers avoid one another for for many reasons, financial and promotional and coz they wanna stay unbeaten etc… These are new age problems that are
Not relevant to the old days when everyone fought everyone…. It’s hard to compare today with yesterday,,, but skill wise the same level of boxers from the elite fighters down still exists now as it did then

Posted October 7, 2012 3:27 pm 


TARK

Roberto Duran fought as a lightweight for his first 70 fights—but Duran beat Iran Barkley when he was fat, out of shape, and 38 years old. Nothing particularly unusual about that—a lot of fighters beat Barkley like a drum.. That’s why nobody expected the slow and inept Barkley to smash Tommy Hearns OUT FLAT in one fight and outbox Tommy in their rematch—but that’s what happened.. If you can’t outbox a wide open slow swinging Barkley, you’ll never outbox Mayweather.. And it’s not as if Mayweather can’t punch—or would find it impossible to find Tommy’s wide open eggshell chin with a KO punch.

Posted October 7, 2012 3:14 pm 


Boxtradamus

To sal.o do YOU know what finishing the Fight with a W means??? Also when you’re talking about Mayweather “usually” goes out the window. “Usually” Fighters aren’t SO BOLD and GREAT that they face 9 CHAMPS in 10 straight Fights and WIN them ALL without even losing 10 total rounds. Also “usually” they don’t maintain the BEST Offensive and Defensive statistics when they face Championship and Top 10 P4P caliber competition……But Floyd is UNUSUAL. That’s why he’s the GOAT….Floyd over Hearns by TKO or comfortable UD.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:45 pm 


Tomato Can

If Hearns is an ATG, than it’s safe to say so is Mayweather.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:38 pm 


Boxtradamus

@JodyLane-That’s because YOU prefer QUANTITY over QUALITY. Floyd’s 43-0 is MUCH MORE impressive than Marciano’s 49-0. Marciano didn’t even defeat ONE of the Top 10 Fighters in the World in his ENTIRE CAREER. Floyd beat 3 of the Top 7 Fighters in the World in a ROW….In FACT just that 3 Fight streak is more impressive than Marciano’s whole CAREER.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:38 pm 


Boxtradamus

Prime Hitman couldn’t even KO Leonard inside the distance and Leonard is a LESSER Defensive Fighter than Mayweather is. Compubox agrees with ME on that. Please learn more about Boxing.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:31 pm 


Boxtradamus

Floyd was at his BEST at 140 and 147. That’s where he beat 3 of the Top 7 Fighters in the World in a ROW and that’s where he made history by defeating 9 CHAMPS in 10 straight Fights. WOW!! IF that’s called decline then EVERYONE in the ENTIRE History of Boxing is in a WORSE decline.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:30 pm 


Puglife

Prime Hitman KOs Floyd jr. inside the distance. The main difference between these two is that Hearns fought the best at their best and gave as good as he got while Floyd with a few exceptions has carefully chosen who and when to fight so as to preserve his perfect record. Hearns is an ATG while Floyd is ‘just’ an HOF-er.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:29 pm 


Tomato Can

Tommy was a great fighter. He was very imposing at 147, but the fact reamains, that Hearn’s lost to lesser fighters than Mayweather, and Mayweather is a better all around fighter. Tommy had the goods to give Mayweather problems, not doubt about that in my opinion.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:16 pm 


The Bible of Boxing

Floyd was at his best at 130. He was still decent at 135 but notice his steady chnage or decline as he moved up. I agree he is very good at defence but that is because he is ok landing only 3 punches a rd if his opponet lands only 1.
He also has avoided the very best in the divisions as he moved up. Either completely or until they were too old, past their prime or whatever else. To be considered an all time best you must have taken on the very best in their prime like Duran, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard and Benitez did vs each other.
I laugh when people talk about his undefeated record as if it proves anything. Marciano and Calzaghe were both undefeated but no one calls them the best ever because they like Floyd they did not face the best at their best. I will give credit for them beating everyone in front of them and that’s that! The Klit Bos are beating up who they face but nobody special.
Regarding defence, Sweet P and Benitez were better. Why? They took some chances to try to win. And for the record Hearns beat up Benitez who was bigger, longer and taller than Floyd. No way Floyd opens up to try to get inside of that jab and tempt that killer right hand. He does not Have Ray’s chin nor Ray’s fearlessness nor power.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:00 pm 


Its Me, Ernie

HHL, Manny for starters…

Posted October 7, 2012 1:27 pm 


HHLondon

Who’s Floyd ducked then?

Posted October 7, 2012 12:11 pm 


Carlos El Guapo

I would have to agree with Scottyboy. Hearns by an early KO. However I think that Floyd would steer clear of Tommy
and maybe stay down at jr.welter until
all of the threats to “0″ are gone. But then even he might have to face Donald Curry.

Posted October 7, 2012 11:24 am 


tesholama

sheer madness of the boxing fans
discuss odds of events that didn’t happen
it is not better than looking at a porno site
other people perform and even get paid
and you just gasps and pants
the craze starts with the boxers themselves
Tommy, where you money went?

Posted October 7, 2012 10:07 am 


CurlyQ.Howard

Especially in a 12 rounder.

Posted October 7, 2012 9:30 am 


Robbie T

Yep….The Hit Man definately by KO! He’d probably have ko’d david ‘glass chin’ haye aswell if they’d fought at cruiserweight! Peace…Robbie T

Posted October 7, 2012 9:21 am 


Curtley

At their absolute peak Tommy was a massive Welterweight and Floyd a big Super feather or lightweight. They are both great fighters but Tommy would have been too much, can see a scenario whereby Floyd lasts the distance in pure defensive mode as he is that slick, but Tommy would land enough jabs and a few hard rights to win a shutout, of course if one of them rights landed flush it could be night night as Tommy says.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:59 am 


scottyboy

Tommy is my favourite ever boxer and so it would be hard to give an unbiased opinion. However, at WW I firmly believe both hearns and leonard would beat mayweather (and pacman too). He just hasnt fought anyone that is remotely on their level. Mayweather has great skills for sure but the reach and power from tommy would imo have been too much for him. If an ancient mosely (despite being one of floyd’s best match ups) was able to land cleanly and hurt floyd, tommy would have got through at some point in the fight and with the destructive one-punch power that tommy had, my bet would be on him stopping floyd fairly early.

Posted October 7, 2012 8:23 am 


pugfan

one could actually argue that by the time Floyd started fighting at welterweight that his best days were behind him already. although he was still great he was no longer in his prime. Floyd was knocking everybody out at the lighter weight classes. when he moved up to welterweight that is when guys started going the distance with Floyd.

Posted October 7, 2012 7:10 am 


Killing Moon The Soothsayer

Ah the prime of modern boxing…..Duran,Hagler,Hearns and Leonard…..would’ve dominated….today…no doubt…..that being said would rather see a prime Duran vs Prime Floyd….just to see Floyd humiliated.

Posted October 7, 2012 6:20 am 


Its Me, Ernie

Cartoon has the beat…

Posted October 7, 2012 3:39 am 


Neil(pomy2)

Hearns was bigger, faster, taller and more powerfull …. Hearns would of destroyed Mayweather.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:55 am 


AD

You know Tommy only lost one fight at Welterweight – and that was against a ATG HOF fighter, in the 14th round while leading on points, in the last fight that he would have boiling down to Welterweight – and this was during the time of same day weigh ins. Tommy is 6″1 and would have around a 6 inch reach advantage. If prime hitman fought Floyd under modern rules – 12 rounder, day before weigh in at 147 I see Tommy winning from the outside. He`d throw a hell of a lot of leather than skidded off Floyds shoulders, or got parried, but I think he`d be aggressive and active enough to take more than 6 rounds before Floyd figures him out, and with the power Hearns has in that right hand Floyd would have to be very careful about how he tried to get inside to do that.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:37 am 


TARK

NOT a fair comparison…. Floyd fought at 130 until he was 25. Floyd could actually get below 130 and offered to challenge Nasim Hamed for the 126-pound title. Remember, Hearns moved up to 154 at a younger age than Floyd moved up to 135… Hearns won the 175-pound title when he was about the age Mayweather won his 2nd 154-pound title. Hearns was beaten in his 1st defense at 175—his 2nd upset loss to Iran Barkley. It’s interesting to note, Hearns was KO’d three (3) times in his 20′s—and one of those KO’s was an upset loss to Iran Barkley. When Barkley fought middleweights whom Hearns persistently ducked—such as Nigel Benn, Michael Nunn, James Toney, and Sumbu Kalambay—Barkley was outclassed … Floyd has never been KO’d, or even beaten—and since Floyd’s defense is masterful and Hearns’ defense wasn’t, it’s not a sure deal that Hearns would beat him.

Posted October 7, 2012 2:35 am 


Cartoon

FLOYD WOULDVE DUCKED HEARNS!!!!!! LIKE HE HAS DUCKED ALL THREATS TO HIS 0

Posted October 7, 2012 2:29 am 


TheFacts

“Floyd has never BEEN surpassed and never will BE surpassed in ANY Sport as long there is life on Earth.”

The biggest joke in the world.Talk about dying for loved floyd, some people would lol.

You might as well say he’s better than Jordan & Martin Luther King that’s all that’s left.Oh that’s right floyd compared himself to King or Malcolm x haha a joke in itself.

Posted October 7, 2012 1:08 am 


TheFacts

Yes he would.Hearns,Leonard,Hagler,Duran know what they could’ve done to pac/floyd & anybody of this era.Especially fake paper champs like canelo,chavez jr,broner they’d be gone just like that.

Posted October 7, 2012 12:58 am 


sal.o

To boxtradamus ,,,do you in the heck no what finishing a fighter means if you dont then dont write anything about boxing any more ….also usually fighters that retire undefeated , meant that they did not fight the best..Floyd is a great fighter but!! he avoided several fighters ..Margarito..a young Cotto,,Pacquiao,,we should not talk about fighters that are gone but,,Marciano did not fight the best ,,Joe Louis was close to a hundred years old when they fought…

Posted October 7, 2012 12:17 am 


The Russian Tyson

One of the things that makes a great fighter is longevity.Joe Louis was heavyweight champion of the world for 11 years. Floyd Mayweather Jr. has held some kind of belt since 1998 and he has been unbeaten since 1996 or for 16 years.I wouldn`t be surprised if Little Floyd had beaten Hearns if they had met in the ring.

Posted October 7, 2012 12:09 am 


hookoffthejab

lol hecdog cotto never had junior beat ive a feeling that junior was being generous and let cotto hang with him …

Posted October 6, 2012 10:53 pm 


JodyLane

Yeah Duran at 135 would have eaten Floyd alive.

Posted October 6, 2012 10:42 pm 


JodyLane

@Boxtradamus. When Floyd hits 50-0 then maybe his wix record will be impressive. Til then gotta go with Marciano’s record of 49-0.

Posted October 6, 2012 10:39 pm 


hecdog

Tommy “Hit Man Hearns” would have beaten the life out of Floyd Mayweather. If an old Sugar Shane Mosely had Floyd all but out, can you imagine what Tommy’s right hand would have done to him. Tommy had a much faster and stronger jab, left hook and could go to the body. Anyone that thinks otherwise should never be allowed on any boxing website again. Jose Luis Castillo actually beat Floyd, but was robbed, and you can’t even compare Castillo to Tommy Hearns. And Benitez was an all time great. Sugar Ray Leonard and Hagler were all time Greats, Duran was an all time great, so don’t even mention Floyd Mayeather in the same sentence with these guys. Floyd is smaller, weaker, and wouldn’t stand a chance against Tommy. Cotto had Floyd beat. Now, can you imagine Tommy fighting Floyd. Case closed!!

Posted October 6, 2012 10:36 pm 


Slade

Yeah Tommy you’d give him some problems but I wouldn’t be surprised if Floyd figured you out and stopped you just like Ray Leonard did

Posted October 6, 2012 10:29 pm 


The Russian Tyson

Hearns is an all-time great.The first quadruple,quintuple and sextuple champion. He would have all the physical advantages ,height and reach and fought from 144-to -191 lbs., without question he was the better offensive fighter but Floyd has better defense,patience and ring generalship.This would have been a much more competitive match-up than most people realize.

Posted October 6, 2012 10:14 pm 


scallum

I don’t think this would be the blowout folks are thinking. Hearns lost to inferior fighters and Benitez did not get shook by him at all

Posted October 6, 2012 10:00 pm 


Delgado

I don`t think that Sugar Ray Leonard or Thomas Hearns would have any problems beating FMJ or Manny Pacquiao.

Posted October 6, 2012 9:57 pm 


Its Me, Ernie

And the thirty seconds would include the count…

Posted October 6, 2012 9:55 pm 


Boxtradamus

Hearns would bring the SHARK out of Floyd just like Corralles and Ortiz did. Hearns would become frustrated with his own inability to land anything significant and end up over committing with his right hand which Floyd will capitalize on with cat like quickness and pinpoint precision….And we all know what happens when Hearns gets hit on the button….Lights OUT…..similar to Khan.

Posted October 6, 2012 9:36 pm 


Boxtradamus

Floyd is one of the BEST Finishers of ALL times. His finishing the Fight with a W percentage has never BEEN surpassed and never will BE surpassed in ANY Sport as long there is life on Earth.

Posted October 6, 2012 9:27 pm 


Mike

Tommy of the Cuevas fight Would KO PBF. He was just too big and powerful PERIOD for Mayweather. No contest. And ditto for Leonard vs PBF.

Posted October 6, 2012 9:20 pm 


Patrick2

Who the hell has Floyd avoided? Pacquiao? If Pacquiao had wanted the fight that bad, he could have made it happen. Only lately has Pac conceded things he should have conceded a few years ago, namely the drug tests.

Posted October 6, 2012 9:11 pm 


sal.o

Hearns vs Mayweather ,what a great fight,,but Floyd would of avoided it at all cost,, first , Sugar Ray was a lot faster then Floyd and Sugar Ray was taller and he still had huge trouble trying to get inside Hearns guard..plus sugar Ray hit a lot harder then Floyd,,,also one thing very important Sugar Ray is or was perhaps the greatest finisher ever to fight in the ring ..Mayweather as good as he is was never a good finisher ,,some one prove me wrong….

Posted October 6, 2012 9:03 pm 


Bruce

In a mythical match up. I’m giving Mayweather the benefit of the doubt. Floyd is 35 years old and still undefeated. Hearns at age 35 had suffered 3 KO losses.

Posted October 6, 2012 9:03 pm 


Patrick2

OfftheJab suggested a very good match-up — Forest vs Floyd. And here’s another, Forest vs Hearns — both had stinging jabs and very strong left hands… love to see that rumble!

Posted October 6, 2012 8:48 pm 


Gonzo The Dragonborn

Tommy must be punch-drunk, Money would’ve danced circles around him and got to that weak chin in the late rounds. Floyd is way too slick and fast for Hearns. Don’t get me wrong, Hearns is a legend but he ain’t ever seen nothing like Floyd before. Sure Hearns hit like a mule, but how can you hurt what you can’t hit? This fight would be all about speed and Hearns wouldn’t be able to lay a glove on Floyd. Like I alluded to earlier in my post, Tommy’s chin is weak and Floyd would break him down slowly and he’d walk him onto a big shot that would stun him and the Floyd would open up with one of his rapid fire salvos and overwhelm him and get him out of there. I will say this though, I wouldn’t be surprised if Hearns floored Floyd at some stage.. no one’s perfect and Hearns could punch crazy hard with both hands and it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that Floyd could get careless and caught with a big one.

Posted October 6, 2012 8:46 pm 


Patrick2

The haters show up and let history fog their judgement. No questions Hearns at 147 would be formidable foe for Floyd, or any welterweight, but Tommy wasn’t invincible. Not saying Floyd is invincible either, but Floyd is more skilled than Ray [Leonard]. Hell, Floyd’s pop was more skilled than Leonard — watch their fight closely and you’ll see what I mean. As for your hatred of Floyd, and your claim he never takes on tough opponents, you only say that AFTER Floyd makes it look easy.

Posted October 6, 2012 8:43 pm 


philgood

If everyone remember Sugar Ray didn’t beat Hearne boxing he had to get inside and slug it out and be able to take a big shot while coming in I don’t know if he can take the shot but I don’t think he can get inside and slug it out like Ray Floyd would get beat on the outside and in. Hearns could slug it out sometimes got ko.

Posted October 6, 2012 8:35 pm 


Boxtradamus

Floyd’s HIT and don’t GET HIT numbers are the BEST of ALL times. Hearns was not undefeated throughout his prime therefore we don’t need to see him face Floyd. We already watched a prime Hearns LOSE to LESSER Fighters than Floyd. Nothing left to debate. You cannot debate the FACTS.

Posted October 6, 2012 8:27 pm 


hookoffthejab

vernon forrest wouldve been a great match up with junior ..

Posted October 6, 2012 8:02 pm 


hookoffthejab

the late Vernon Forrest wouldve been a great opponent for junior …hearns wouldve laughed at junior in the ring right before sending his arse through the ropes where junior wouldve stayed sugar ray to much kunt for junior also …

Posted October 6, 2012 8:01 pm 


Joseph Herron

You’re the man, Pain!!

Posted October 6, 2012 7:54 pm 


Pain

Floyd would have his ass kicked by a prime Pacquiao. And have his ass almost beat by old Oscar. What do you think a prime Tommy Hearns would do to him? Destroy him, that’s what. And no, hell no Floyd is better than Sugar Ray. Leonard would also destroy his demanding ass.

Posted October 6, 2012 7:47 pm 


Joseph Herron

Floyd would probably avoid Tommy like the plague.

I would love to see that fight though!!

Posted October 6, 2012 7:43 pm 


Fight Aficionado in Boston

Tommy is too humble. Floyd would get KTFO by a prime Hitman Hearns. Not even close. That’s why Floyd would not fight Hearns if they were active at the same time.

Posted October 6, 2012 7:34 pm 


BusterTrousers

mayweather if he took the fight at all would try and make hearns fight underweight, and on one leg

Posted October 6, 2012 7:29 pm 


Patrick2

If you’re implying Hearns would knock out Floyd in 30 seconds, you’re nuts. Floyd is a better boxer than Sugar Ray, and Sugar Ray had a pretty good record against Hearns.

Posted October 6, 2012 7:21 pm 


Joseph Herron

Lol!! That’s funny, brother!!

Posted October 6, 2012 6:56 pm 


Its Me, Ernie

It would have been a great fight for about thirty seconds.

Posted October 6, 2012 6:54 pm 



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Thomas “The Hitman” Hearns: “Floyd Mayweather Jr. would have a lot of problems with a prime Hitman”









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