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DEVIL’S ADVOCATE

Sorry. The last post was from me.

Posted April 20, 2014 6:55 pm 


Anonymous

“Power doesn’t just come from your legs, but from every muscle in your body.”

This is what I actually wrote:
I don’t agree. Your arms are levers, power comes from the base, which is your legs, driving though the core of your body, which is delivered by the twist and torque as you drive and turn into the punch. WHY do you think it is more important to deliver your punches correctly?

What I wrote was that you need perfect balance, to be able to punch correctly, and control distance whether up close or long range.

What is the use of all the strength in the world if you have NO TECHNIQUE with which to deliver it?
SHUMENOV is the perfect example of what I’m talking about. Body ripped and as powerful as they come, but he couldn’t hit a piñata with a stick if you gave him!

The most IMPORTANT muscle(?) any fighter can train is the brain.

The ability to train the mind to block out pain, stress, fear, tension, tiredness, doubt, fatigue, is the real tool and the real holy grail in boxing.

Learning how to train the mind to keep punching with FORM even when at exhaustion, being ALERT to SEE the opportunity to evade/block and counter with PRECISION, to block out pain, to keep moving even when the going gets tough and maintaining the drills hammered in a million times.

MENTAL TOUGHNESS is what I train for.

Timothy Bradley acted all week like he was mentally tough, but he was mentally weak and started throwing homeruns, when he got into the battle zone, when it made more sense to box, keep calm and look for openings.

If given the choice I would always opt for mental toughness rather than physical toughness, cause if you’re mentally tough you will figure out a way to win, because you will think calmly and clearly, whether it’s in boxing, life or death situation (I’ve been there), or in an exam, anything.

A physically strong guy who is mentally weak is going nowhere, but a mentally strong guy who may not be as physically strong has far more chance of prevailing. That is my humble opinion and in my case.i have never found it wanting!

Posted April 20, 2014 6:51 pm 


TARK

When a new pro builds his record in the first few years his KO ratio can be very, very high, because he’s padding his record with selected opponents… When he’s many years into his career and moving up to higher weight divisions to make bigger money, he’s going to be fighting much better and tougher fighters… He’s not as likely to knock them out as his earlier record building opponents, and his KO ratio will suffer.

But the idea is to win. He needs enough power to at least hold these bigger, taller, larger framed men off of him, so he doesn’t get run over … and he has a chance to outbox them if he can’t stop them. So the added muscle mass is never irrelevant, even if his KO ratio is going to suffer slightly. Obviously if you’re making 10′s of millions of dollars, you’re not fighting chumps you can KO easily.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:18 pm 


TARK

It’s scientifically proven that sport specific weight training adds power in any sport.

After months of using quadriceps strengthening weight machines, one can easily measure a basketball player’s gains in jumping ability by wall touches. You can easily measure a boxer’s punching power electronically. Even using a basketball chest-pass with a heavy medicine ball is a form of weight training that adds power to straight punches.

After a few months he not only passes the medicine ball with greater velocity, sharpness, and ease, but he punches harder, faster, and sharper as well. It’s something that can be both measured and observed.

Plyometric pushups, where you throw yourself off the floor with every rep definitely increases one’s straight punching power over time. This is not debatable and is easily measured electronically. To just to keep denying something that is fact based is willful ignorance and very stupid.

Other exercises that help rapidly increase punching power are the oblique machine, leg press machine, back extension machine, dumbbell presses and curls, back extensions while holding weight plates to the chest, Roman chair sit-ups using weights, plyometric jumping exercises, and wall pulley exercises mimicking the punching motion. I can design a punching power increasing regimen based on the equipment that’s available in any gym.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:08 pm 


TARK

Power doesn’t just come from your legs, but from every muscle in your body.

The arms are one hell of a lot more than levers. They are not dead.

The arms will extend hook or flex, depending on whether a jab, hook, straight right, or uppercut is being thrown from long range or shorter range. You bring every muscle in the body into play in a different mix with a good arsenal of punches. The whole body needs to be strengthened but arm strength is equally important. For instance, with short range hooks the triceps are employed more, with long range hooks the biceps give more impetus to the punch than the triceps.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:06 pm 


TARK

Devils’s Ad.., “Your arms are levers, power comes from the base, which is your legs, driving though the core of your body,”

That is not true.

Your arms are more than lifeless levers. Everybody knows you use your whole body — the muscles of your arms, legs, butt, and torso to throw a powerful punch. Your arm muscles help drive the punch. To demonstate this, put your fist flat against your plam and press as hard as you can as if throwing short, medium range, or longer range left hook. Every muscle in your arm will tense. The shorter the hook the more the triceps will tense. The longer the hook the more the biceps will tense.

You strengthen EVERY muscle in the body through scientific weight training; including the legs and every muscle of the torso … including the obliques.

Guys often accumulate great KO records by fighting guys who can’t fight. When you move up to higher weights you’re generally fighting the top guys in that division … you’re not in the process of padding your record to 30-0 with 28 KOs before you get a title shot and defend it against bogus contenders.. You’re not going to get a long streak of KOs when you’re fighting world champions and super good fighters who command top PPV revenues.

But whether you knock them out or not… You need better size and strength just to punch hard enough to keep those bigger bone framed guys off of you and beat them any way you can… That takes an expert who knows how to lift weights for Boxing.

As I said… Top fighters like Jones, Marquez, and Hopkins hired these top weight training specialists to increase their size and strength for a reason when they moved up in weight. These guys are very successful and know the sport. They would know better than you whether it’s worth the money … You’ve never been a top pro boxer, or trainer of top pro boxers. These guys have.

Posted April 20, 2014 6:30 am 


Ivanov

Weight training and added muscle mass can be different things. Quality vs quantity, etc. Neither quality, nor quantity, nor any form of weight training will help you hit harder.
Moving on in the upper weight classes does not guarantee new punch power. On the contrary, KO ratios of boxers who moved up usually falls dramatically. Mayweather, Hopkins, Pacquiao, Marquez have all lost their KO capacity once they moved up.

Posted April 20, 2014 1:45 am 


DEVIL’S ADVOCATE

“Fit human beings often do weight training for power. You wouldn’t necessarily know it by looking at them because they have a different body types, and don’t lift or do strength training for body building. Mike Tyson had a different body type than Larry Holmes. He has bigger, more powerful arms that allowed him to punch harder. Mike did a lot of weight training to increase that natural advantage he had over most heavyweights of his day.”

D says the above.

I don’t agree. Your arms are levers, power comes from the base, which is your legs, driving though the core of your body, which is delivered by the twist and torque as you drive and turn into the punch. WHY do you think it is more important to deliver your punches correctly?

If a punch is thrown correctly, with speed and timing it is more effective than someone swinging for the fence. A short hook, travelling a few inches will provide devastating effects, especially as a counter punch, when thrown, correctly, with the proper twist and torque, driven through the core, via the base. Ray Leonard said the most important thing he did was to have perfect balance, which he practiced every day in order to be perfectly placed to land his punches correctly and avoid counters.

Piling on muscle mass will get you to the next weight class or classes up, but is not effective as growing naturally into your correct weight class. I understand why boxers are getting S & C to get 2 weight classes bigger, BUT when I mentioned Arguello I was talking about him as a Featherweight, Zarate as a bantamweight, Calzaghe as a Super Middle.etc

These guys may have or may not have lifted weights, BUT not to excess like they are now, trying to look ripped like body builders. That does nothing for you.

Fundamentals of correct balance, delivery, timing , skills and technique are what is necessary and always has been.

If you wish to wrestle, go be a wrestler.

Posted April 19, 2014 11:54 pm 


Anonymous

Ivan on April 16: “Added muscle mass is irrelevant in boxing.”

Ivan on Apirl 19: “Weight training for boxers can be very useful, but unfortunately it has no effect on punch power.” Have you seen any scientific studies that prove it has no effect on punching power?

Since Marquez added enough muscle mass to fight in five different weight classes and three different weight classes since age 37, how is that muscle mass irrelevant and useful at the same time?

And what accounts for the added punching power in Marquez’s 4th fight with Pacquiao, for which he thanked his new strength trainer? Did his added size and strength mean his punching power stayed the same or got worse?

Posted April 19, 2014 4:55 pm 


D

The victory doesn’t always go to the stronger and faster man.

Strength and punching power are two factors a boxer tries to improve on. He cannot afford to neglect his boxing skills, cardio conditioning, strategic planning, nutrition, rest, mental and emotional preparation, or any other aspect of the game that could make the difference between winning and losing. His goal is to win, not to leave any stones unturned.

Posted April 19, 2014 3:44 pm 


TARK

Boxers wouldn’t spend hard earned money on strength training specialists just to throw money down the drain. They expect results in that ring.

Michael Spinks hired Mackie Shilstone when he went from 175 to 199 to beat Larry Holmes… Roy Jones hired Mackie Shilstone when he went from 175 to 198 to beat John Ruiz… Bernard Hopkins hired Mackie Shilstone when he went from 160 to 175 to beat Antonio Tarver… When Roy Jones lost 25lbs of muscle weight—and the strength and power that went with it—he started getting beaten up and KTFO.

Everybody knows Juan Manuel Marquez changed strength trainers because one had him drinking pee—and was not effective. He found one who sculpted his body into that of a true 147-pounder. The rest is history. Marquez looked bigger and more powerful for his 3rd and 4th fights with Pacquiao … JMM had Freddie Roach sputtering veiled accusations.

The bias against weight training for boxers has gradually given way to scientific enlightenment. For the last two generations boxers have hired strength trainers more and more. Wladimir and Tyson look awesome, but that doesn’t mean they were training like body builders. They had naturally more powerful physiques than average to start with.

Why do boxers flex at the weigh-in? They’re saying, “I’m one powerful dude baby.” Boxing skills and endurance are concerns one and two, obviously… But strength, speed, and power can add $$$$$$.

Posted April 19, 2014 3:16 pm 


D

Can a highly skilled boxer with a lesser physique ever stop a poorly trained and conditioned boxer who has poor boxing skills, but a more muscular physique? Of course. It doesn’t follow that weight training is useless.

Posted April 19, 2014 3:10 pm 


Anonymous

D, when Ali KOed Foreman, who had the muscle mass? The bigger stronger muscles… Does that make sense?

Posted April 19, 2014 2:46 pm 


Anonymous

D, you got it all wrong. The point was whether a certain fighter could increase his punch power by weight training. Apparently Foreman ans Frazier are different fighters.
If a boxer gets KOed , it doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t punch harder than his opponent. You are completely lost.

Posted April 19, 2014 2:32 pm 


D

Devil’s Advo: “I mentioned three guys who were known for their punching power but did not look like anything more than fit human beings. Look at Foster, Arguello who was known as the Explosive Than Man.”

Fit human beings often do weight training for power. You wouldn’t necessarily know it by looking at them because they have a different body types, and don’t lift or do strength training for body building. Mike Tyson had a different body type than Larry Holmes. He has bigger, more powerful arms that allowed him to punch harder. Mike did a lot of weight training to increase that natural advantage he had over most heavyweights of his day.

Arguello was KO’d twice by Aaron Pryor who more than matched him in strength and power. Look at the matchups between these 4 famous boxers: Foster killed much smaller Dick Tiger. Frazier killed much smaller Bob Foster. Foreman killed much smaller Joe Frazier.

Ivan: “Bigger/stronger muscles simply do not bring more punch power.”

I repeat: That makes no sense. Tiger got murdered by Foster. Foster got murdered by Frazier. Frazier got murdered by Foreman. Bigger stronger muscles had something to do with those results.

Posted April 19, 2014 2:19 pm 


Ivan

HidalgO: Weight training for boxers can be very useful but unfortunately it has no effect on punch power. Strength training of any type does not increase punch power and sometimes decreases it. It may sound strange to you but boxing people know this very well and it’s no big news to any decent coach.
Your definition of power is somewhat descriptive and over-simplified. The physics formulas used for boxing power would be complex equations which are beyond this discussion. Greatest force and shortest time would be nonsense and a waste of time. Biochemistry is a big variable. Bigger/stronger muscles simply do not bring more punch power.
Weight training for boxers can be very useful in other respects, it has to be done carefully though and is usually beneficial in combination with certain substances. Even substances will not increase punch power.

Stop pretending, there is nothing to be sorry about, you could learn something in a civilized discussion.

Posted April 19, 2014 12:41 pm 


DEVIL’S ADVOCATE

There seems to be a crazy correlation to lifting weights and getting the body aesthetic of a ripped body builder for example an Andre Berto or countless other boxers I care less to mention. I mentioned three guys who were known for their punching power but did not look like anything more than fit human beings. Look at Foster, Arguello who was known as the Explosive Than Man. They trained themselves to compete over 15 rounds and never had a problem maintaining their power or pop or whatever you call it. Look at Joe Calzaghe. He never had a ripped physique but never got pushed around, even when he stepped up to Light Heavy. There’s too much concentration on strength, rather than boxing, skills and technique. If you wanted to wrestle, go be a wrestler.

Posted April 19, 2014 8:17 am 


Ivan

Tark has lost integrity and coherence and shows feminine traits like hysteria and nervous breakdowns after he was exposed as usual. This is a boxing site, not a therapy session for disturbed nut cases.
Try to stick to point or at least to boxing in general. Psychiatric help is not available here.

Posted April 19, 2014 4:12 am 


@

Таrk

Тhеll us аbout Wlаd bodу. Не look likе monstеr

Posted April 19, 2014 3:28 am 


TARK

“Alexis Arguello, Carlos Zarate were punchers but not muscle bound.”

Weight training for boxing doesn’t make you muscle bound stupid idiot … Did you interview those guys to find out if they ever did any strength training for power??? Even Floyd Mayweather uses weights so it’s not a crazy idea to get strong and add muscle.

Posted April 19, 2014 12:30 am 


TARK

I never said anything about hammers you stupid idiot … You can’t read, much less learn anything.

If you don’t believe improving your size and strength increases your power you’re worse than idiotic.. Like Hidalgo says, a boxer isn’t trying to be a body builder. He’s building strength for a specific purpose.

Or do think Marquez was wasting his money by hiring a strength trainer and moving up in weight??? I know you won’t answer that — because you have no answers — just your sneering ignorance.

You’re so idiotic you’re a damned vegetable.

Posted April 19, 2014 12:25 am 


DEVIL’S ADVOCATE

Alexis Arguello, Carlos Zarate, were all thunderous punchers but not musclebound. The list goes on and on.

Posted April 18, 2014 3:03 pm 


DEVIL’S ADVOCATE

IVAN, why not mention BOb Foster, one of the greatest punchers at Light Heavyweight to TARK. I doubt he was a big lifter of weights. certainly didn’t look like he was.

Posted April 18, 2014 12:28 pm 


Ivan

TARK, change your nick to Clueless. Since you are crying for attention and act as if the article is about you, there it is:
You have a half of century of experience in what disciplines? You clain to have trained hundreds of boxers and you know all about these other disciplines? That should make at least 70 years old if you started your versatile coaching career very early.
That would not explain how come you have no clue about punching power. You speak of hammers and barbells which is at least off topic if not plain idiotic. You believe bench presses and push ups are somehow related to punch power – as clueless as usual, you should be diagnosed again.
You believe Pacman was knocked down by Marquez by a punch he saw and was trying to block? Only this sentence is enough to show how far you stand from basic boxing knowledge.
You are doing it to yourself by polluting posts with delusions, I am getting tired of busting you as an impostor and a liar.

Posted April 18, 2014 4:42 am 


TARK

ppppffft… more groundless judgments from Stupid.

Ivanov = ignoramus… That’s a wise and knowledgeable judgment.

Posted April 17, 2014 5:09 pm 


Ivanov

tark=schizophrenia

Posted April 17, 2014 4:25 pm 


PukinangInaMoPacquiao

Pacquiao will get knocked out again in front of his wife!!!

Posted April 17, 2014 3:26 pm 


TARK

You explained nothing you dummy… No reasonable explanation for your ignorant statements is possible.

Ivan, you’re an uneducated idiot at best… You know nothing about boxing, strength training, nutrition, or human physiology—and refuse to learn. Talking to you is like talking to a brick.

I have a half century of experience in these disciplines. I know what I’m talking about.

The KO punch Marquez iced Pacquiao with was a counterpunch. You don’t feint to the body on a counter punch and throw a bolo punch. You don’t have time. You avoid an incoming punch and fire you blithering simpleton.

BTW a bolo punch is a sweeping uppercut thrown from long range. It’s a showboat punch. Marquez is as orthodox as you get … the farthest thing from a showboat.

Posted April 17, 2014 3:16 pm 


Ivanov

Tark=Exercise in futility. At least I tried to explain, it’s up to you to try to understand.

Posted April 17, 2014 2:34 pm 


Fight Aficionado

“This site is becoming like a rendezvous full of juveniles.” – Has been for a couple years already. The ESB veterans started leaving a few years ago and were replaced by fanboys, tards and teenagers.

Posted April 17, 2014 2:26 pm 


TARK

Ivan, pretending expertise, says.., “In short, when a boxer reaches his power potential at around 18-21, no power changes occur later on. Gaining muscle mass will not help, it could even cramp him up a little.” … That’s just plain stupidity coming from an ignoramus.

You have no knowledge Ivan. You’re spouting pure unadulterated crap.

Are you an experienced weight lifting, power lifting, or strength training coach? Do you have a doctorate in physical education, sports science, or sports nutrition? I thought so. What makes you an expert?

A boxer can continue adding size, strength, and punching power throughout his 20’s and early 30’s. In fact, punching power can be measured electronically to prove this. Marquez added size and strength in his late 30’s. That is possible with a lot of work and dedication.

Gains in physical strength, power, and speed can easily be measured by how fast and many times you can bench-press a pair of 50 or 100 pound dumbbells without losing form or speed on your reps. Time it with a stopwatch just like you’re timing a sprinter. As soon as your boxer loses speed or form say “STOP” and click the watch.

If you can do 7 chin-ups when you’re 25 years old, but can do 30 chin-ups when you’re 32 years old, after 7 years of training—and you can do them much faster and smoother—than you’re a lot stronger and more powerful as you’ve gotten older. You can to that with any exercise. You can make terrific height gains in plyometric jumps and plyometric pushups well into your 30’s. You don’t need to be 18 to 21 to achieve gains in size, strength, speed, and power.

Posted April 17, 2014 1:56 pm 


Ivanov

HidalgO: No sarcasm possible in that case unless it’s self-pointed. In short, when a boxer reaches his power potential at around 18-21, no power changes occur later on. Gaining muscle mass will not help, it could even cramp him up a little. He can go up in weight and his general core strength can increase albeit his punch power. I know it sounds counterintuitive, it can be frustrating but power is reliable and constant.

Hammers are irrelevant, the fist and the wrist do not grow along with the biceps. The more muscle-bound a person gets, the less range of motion, flexibility, endurance….

Posted April 17, 2014 1:04 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: if you think Marquez is better then I want to see him beat Pacqiuoa twice!

Posted April 17, 2014 12:39 pm 


Havoc

Style makes fights means If your style is boring then your fight is boring! If your style is exciting then your fights are exciting. It’s not a>b>c.

Posted April 17, 2014 12:37 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: 2-1-1 in favor if Pacman!

Posted April 17, 2014 12:35 pm 


TARK

Good point Hidalgo.

T22 says.., “Tark you have some good points and in a perfect world youd be right. I went from boxing and distance running to weights and high protein diet and my performance in anything aerobic went to pot. You have to balance it and if you over or under do it then it affects performance badly. Last marathon I did a friend of mine who’s more dedicated than me had a slow marathon by his standards and couldn’t understand why. Turns out he indulged in the wrong food the night before. I think Frank Bruno over did the carbs to protein ratio hence his stamina issues.”

You have to CREATE that perfect world.

You have to eat the right grass fed beef that’s never been trough fed… and range fed chickens that have never been confined until they’re harvested. They have to be certified free of hormones, vitamins, antibiotics, drugs, animal feces, and trough feeding. You’d be SHOCKED at the crap the factory raised animal that went into your hamburger was forced to eat—and what he was injected with. You also have to eat the right mix of organically grown vegetables—purchased at the right farmer’s markets on the right days—and at the right time of day. You have to consume the right whole grains, seeds, nuts, legumes, etc. in the right proportions at the right meals. You have to eat as perfectly as you possibly can.

You have to add that muscle weight very carefully.

You don’t do any barbell presses if you’re a boxer. They widen your pictorials, are tough on your shoulders, and lock your wrists. You bench press with dumbbells because they isolate the triceps and so you can turn your wrists naturally like you do when throwing a jab or straight right. You don’t do full or half squats with a barbell on your shoulders. That puts potentially damaging strain on your lower back and knees. You do quarter squats holding 2 heavy dumbbells or use the leg-press machine, so the weight and stress is evenly distributed over your entire back. You NEVER rep to failure on any set—because that bulks your muscles like a body builder. You need to alternate daily with plyometrics and have appropriate rest days. I could go on for 200 pages—but the bottom line is—massive amounts of experience, thought, dedication, and work needs to go into adding weight and strength to jump up weight divisions. It takes a ton of knowledge and experience.

Marquez fought as a featherweight until 32, and as a lightweight until 37… But he’s made more money for his 140 and 147lb fights than all his previous fights COMBINED. Why in Hell wouldn’t he want to add weight, strength, and speed—so he could fight the more popular boxers in higher weight divisions and make tons of money????? IT WORKS!!!!

Posted April 17, 2014 11:43 am 


Titopa

Marquez vs Pacquiao IV was a reminder that STYLES make fights, if it was always A>B>C then Marquez should’ve walked through Bradley, but in boxing, styles make fights. Just cause Pacquiao beat Bradley and Bradley beat Marquez, does NOT mean Pacquiao can beat Marquez, which he hasn’t been able to.

Posted April 17, 2014 11:33 am 


wisps 173

Yes, 5 times would be too much.

Posted April 17, 2014 10:15 am 


Ivan

Tark, as a loyal reader you are entitled to a reply:

If you believe additional muscle mass of any type can increase punch power for an adult boxer, you are truly a lost sheep. Boxing punch power is still a biochemical mystery but it has been established that strength training/weight lifting/muscle gains are either useless or counterproductive for this purpose. I’ll give a clue – lactic acid among other stuff.

As to the punch in question, specifically for pedantic laymen like you I wrote “basically (but not exactly the same) shot”. Both punches utilized the threat of a body shot to access the target. And no, Pacman did not see any of the shots, hence the devastating effect. Formal logic, if any on your part, has led you to expose yourself more than once as a bookworm. You coaching – give me a break, you have no mercy. Go to a gym to see what it smells like, deduce from that. Try to hurt a boxer with a shot he sees and is even trying to block.

The first shot contained a feint to the body within the trajectory of the punch, the second one was strictly a head shot but the feint was in the body movement of JMM.

Trying to deduce from words taken out of context has made you look ridiculous any time you elaborate on your delusions. Boxing is a foreign world to you.

Posted April 17, 2014 7:21 am 


T22

Tark you have some good points and in a perfect world youd be right. I went from boxing and distance running to weights and high protein diet and my performance in anything aerobic went to pot. You have to balance it and if you over or under do it then it affects performance badly. Last marathon I did a friend of mine whos more dedicated than me had a slow marathon by his standards and couldn’t understand why. Turns out he indulged in the wrong food the night before. I think Frank Bruno over did the carbs to protein ratio hence his stamina issues. Maybe Bradley did a similar thing. Theres lots of anomalities out there like these 5ft tall Sherpa guys carrying 60-80kg at altitude, the 8 year old miners back in the 1800′s who would carry 2 sacks of coal on their back and todays manual laborers who will spend 8 hours shovelling. Another thing is food. Back in 1920 a shop bought cabbage would contain upto 80% more nutrients than todays equivalent ( lots of other examples but too many to go into). This is down to intense farming of todays product. Best we grow our own.

Posted April 17, 2014 6:06 am 


T22

Yes and no. Id say no until a Pac/Mayweather fight is done. HBO/Showtime could refuse to show any FM or MP fight until this is done. That said they would probably take their business elsewhere. Also didn’t Ted Kid Lewis fight Jack Britton 20 times ( now theres a rivalry) so you could argue yes.

Posted April 17, 2014 5:49 am 


Be Real

In the round-robin of fights between Pacman, Bradley and JMM, official scores are 1-1 between Manny and Tim, 2-1-1 for Manny over JMM and 1-0 for Tim over JMM. Now these are all great fighters, but Manny is ahead in the ‘style make fights’ stakes, especially considering he should have got the first Bradley decision too which was worse than any Pac-JMM call. Manny has his world title back again and is once more at the top table. JMM fans, fanboys and groupies need to get over it and JMM needs to go see Tim again, i.e. JUAN One More Time!!…..or call it a day.

Posted April 17, 2014 5:37 am 


TARK

This pundit says.., Added muscle mass is not just irrelevant in boxing; it can easily become a burden and affect endurance.” … That is a pile of nonsense.

Added muscle is not irrelevant. It can give you more strength, speed, and power.

Obviously, if you want to move up a weight class to pursue more lucrative fights against much better known and more popular fighters—you need to add size and strength. This is difficult to do in the right way, but Marquez was finally able to accomplish this when he found the right strength trainer. I know all about this topic because I’ve coached boxers through specific diet and weight training regimens to accomplish this.

Another piece of nonsense that this pundit spewed is: “body shot changed midway into a head shot. Call it a bolo-swing punch.” LMAO… Marquez did nothing like that.

The first knockdown came at 1:19 of the 3rd. You can see it on YouTube.com There was no feint to the body or bolo punch. Marquez stepped in strongly to throw a wide sweeping right. Pacquiao saw the punch coming all the way and tried to block it—but misjudged it as he was pulling back.

Also… there was no feint to the body or bolo-swing with the KO punch. Pacquiao leaped in with a loaded right hook that missed. As Pac followed through powerfully with the missed punch he sailed directly into a very short right hand that Marquez was turning over at the perfect fraction of a second … It was probably the most perfect punch JMM ever landed.

Posted April 17, 2014 2:55 am 


Another sad day for Pactards

Hecdog…doesn’t matter.. Marqez has Pacroids number. Pactranny got ktfo
Lololol

Posted April 17, 2014 1:07 am 


Hecdog

Ped Man Marquez was beaten up and sent home by Timothy Bradley, yes Timothy Bradley, the same guy Manny Pacquiao thrashed not once, but two time. Ped Man Marquez is no longer relevant and should retire. The boxing world is in agreement that he is the biggest whining, complaining crybaby in history. Manny Pacquiao, the greatest fighter to have ever stepped into a boxing ring has beaten him 3 times. We know the stories of each fight, and i fnot for the infamous Ped Punch and the stepping on Ped Man’s foot, Manny was clearly on his way to knocking Ped Man Marquez. Ped Man as usual is trying to steer away from a 5th fight because he knows Freddie and his camp are asking for the most thorough testing available, and Hereida, Ped Man Marquez and Nacho want no part of that. Why else would Ped Man Marquez be hesitant? See his interviews, and you can see panic and insecurity in his responses to the question. Why in the world would any fighter not want a 5th fight and make millions for fighting a fighter he just beat? There’s no answer that makes sense unless he has something to hide, and we all know what he’s hiding. Manny Pacquiao can move on to bigger and better things. Fans know full well that there are 2 cowards (Mayweather /Ped Man Marquez) that will not risk taking on the only 8 division champion, and possibly soon to be 9 division champion if rumors are true that Manny Pacquiao wants to try another weight class. Incredible how the greatest fighter in boxing history looks for challenges instead of run from them. The world knows what greatness is all about. Manny Pacquiao is the talk of the boxing world, and people love the man. I think we can all agree that Manny Pacquiao has carried boxing for the last 12 years. I also understand that there is serious talk of an actual statue being constructed to honor hium. The accolades just keep piling up. The fan fare keeps coming non-stop. The Philippines has been elated with Manny Pacquiao’s victory, and no one wants to sleep. The man is a legend. We should all be thankful to have Manny Pacquiao as part of our own extended family. I am still riding high from Manny’s titanic and rewarding victory. It’s been 4 days since that spectacular night, and I have worn Manny Pacquiao attire to work. I will continue wearing his attire until one week has passed. I am doing this in honor of this great human being, and I ask that all of you join me in doing the same. Trust me, Manny Pacquiao is magnificent inside and outside the ring. Manny is the best ever!

Posted April 16, 2014 11:35 pm 


Mike Tyson

Truthfully, the last fight Marquez face was starting falling apart. But after seeing. Badley hit PAC with the same lead hook as Marquez and he too it flush, iron jaw again, the only reason it could be true he said he didn’t see the punch coming, and that look to be true.

A Really a garantee way to get ko is if you never saw the punch coming , its the same as someone hit you from behing woth a board you will be knock out.

Posted April 16, 2014 11:31 pm 


Mike Tyson

Have everybody heard the news? Marquez has change his mind and don’t want to fight manny, he said that, the same thing that he has beat him by ko And he see no reason for a another fight, has nothing to prove. He said PAC should fight Floyd .seen PAC look to crazy busy. And he gotten better.

Posted April 16, 2014 11:24 pm 


The Mad Scientist

Marquez always had the power to hurt Pacquiao thus the reason Manny never throws those cool combos you pactards love against Kid Dynamite..the only time Pacquiao dared to go for a knock out he ended up betting ktfo himself..

Posted April 16, 2014 10:24 pm 


PutangInaMoPacquiao

Pac would get knocked out again

Posted April 16, 2014 9:55 pm 


Saluyot

This site is becoming like a rendezvous full of juveniles.

Posted April 16, 2014 9:17 pm 


Anonymous

etumbi etumbo etumba you are really becoming like the princess of pathetic sore loser whiner CRYBABY!!!!!

Posted April 16, 2014 9:00 pm 


etumbi etumbo etumba

The Mad Scientist says:

“Poor pactatrds, they’re yearning so bad to go back the illusion when Pacquiao was this so called untouchable dominant force who was running through everybody from David Diaz all the way up to Shane Mosley until he met Kid Dynamite once again..now Manny has been reduced to being flattened by a small, old lightweight and being challenged by an average puncher at best in Bradley and not wanting any part of a real fight against a so called punching bag in Brandon Rios when not to long ago Manny was crushing these supposed monsters..real boxing fans are now thanking the great Juan Manuel Marquez for showing us the truth about Manny Pacquiao and his fans and what the real is..”

REALLY YOU TOO BECOMING LIKE AN ABSOLUTE IMBECILE AS WELL!!! BEING SO PROUD OF WHAT JUANITA DID THE LAST FIGHT BUT YOU IMBECILES FORGOT ABOUT SOMETHING. YEAH, JUANITA*** KNOWINGLY HIRED A TRAINER WHO IS WELL KNOWN PRODUCER OF UNDETECTABLE PED’S!!” REMEMBER DURING HIS (JUANITA) PRIME HE CANNOT EVEN KNOCK MANNY DOWN JUST EVEN ONCE!!! NOW THAT HE IS OLD HE ACQUIRED MUSCLES AND STRENGTH FOR SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, EXCUSE ME… IT DOESN’T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENCE TO FIGURE THIS OUT OTHERWISE IF YOU CAN’T THEN YOU’RE THE TOTAL ABSOLUTE IMBECILE OF ALL TIME!!!

Posted April 16, 2014 8:49 pm 


K.C.

Tumba with his typical back peddling…..

Posted April 16, 2014 8:48 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: that’s just what you say if you are promoting the fight! Erase the doubt! But in reality Manny just clean out his division except maynever and the scared GB fighters. It’s more like Marquez never stop crying about his losses with Pacqioua so Pacqioua gave him a rematch just to stop his whinning! Okay Marquez put a stamp in all if his fights with Manny! 4-0! Marquez win it all. Hehehe….

Posted April 16, 2014 8:06 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – LOL @ “unnecessary”, I’ll tell you why it WAS necessary. Because Pacquiao knew he had to erase the doubt as to whether he truly beat Marquez, so many questions were unanswered after 36 rounds, MANY people felt Marquez had won ALL 3 encounters. Pacquiao had no other choice than try and prove them wrong…he himself said, “I want to erase all the doubt”. So, yeah, “unnecessary” is not accurate…even to Pacquiao.

Posted April 16, 2014 7:59 pm 


Havoc

Te tumbo: your prediction is way wrong! You where saying Bradley will win. You are so wrong!!!!!!!!!

Posted April 16, 2014 7:56 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: yup Marquez put a stamp on his only win against the peoples champ! Call me just a fanboy but 2-1-1 I know for a fact! One Devastating punch KO in a 4th unnecessary fight! Put a stamp on 1 fight!

Posted April 16, 2014 7:54 pm 


te tumbo

“Please explain what in the world styles makes fight mean” it means that Pacquiao* lacks the style to defeat Marquez but that Marquez has the style to KTFO of Napuiao#, erase him off of everyone’s P4P lists, and put him out of commission for an entire year. meanwhile, you’ll have to ask Ariza why Pacquiao* no longer has the physical appearance of a defeater of all styles.

Posted April 16, 2014 7:43 pm 


te tumbo

“Clearly Jim Lampely does not agree with you” Congratulations TITOPA.

Posted April 16, 2014 7:41 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – No matter how you slice it or dice, when comparing Marquez and Pacquiao, they’re considered each others equals and Marquez was the ONLY one to put a STAMP on their “rivalry”, ENDING the bout with a sizzling KO that will forever be considered one of the greatest one punch KO’s in the history of boxing. The only “controversy” is the one Pactards came up with since their hero Pacquiao wouldn’t dare to, why? Cause he chose to take his loss like a true champion and like a man, but his fans? Hell no! They took to crying, moaning and whining like a bunch of sissies. If Pacquiao can take it like a man, why can’t his fans do the same?

Posted April 16, 2014 7:37 pm 


The Mad Scientist

Titopa thanks for sparing me the headache of having to explain to this rookie how styles make fights

Posted April 16, 2014 7:33 pm 


The Mad Scientist

Havoc if you don’t know style make fights than you are not a real boxing fan just a Manny Pacquiao fanboy..styles make fights is a proven fact not a right or wrong kid

Posted April 16, 2014 7:31 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – Barrera lost to Junior Jones, Junior Jones lost to Morales and Barrera beat Morales….that’s styles. Wake up.

Posted April 16, 2014 7:31 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: manny beat margarito,Mosley,Cotto,Hatton,Barrera………is that styles makes fight?

Posted April 16, 2014 7:30 pm 


Titopa

It’s not always: A>B>C

Posted April 16, 2014 7:28 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – One example: Cotto beat Mosley but lost to Margarito, yet Mosley beat Margarito…why? STYLES MAKE FIGHTS! If we go by your theory, then Cotto should’ve dismantled Margarito worse than Mosley did.

Posted April 16, 2014 7:25 pm 


Havoc

Boring vs. Boring equals boring! Exciting vs exciting equals KO. I don’t know Please explain what in the world styles makes fight mean.

Posted April 16, 2014 7:16 pm 


Havoc

Styles makes fight! Whatever that means?

Posted April 16, 2014 7:14 pm 


Havoc

Not all true fan is right and not all fanboy are wrong! MAD scientis!

Posted April 16, 2014 7:13 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – Also, schooling is what Floyd did to Canelo, Pac beat Bradley, was no “schooling” involved whatsoever.

Posted April 16, 2014 6:45 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – So, I guess Pac’s KO over Hatton was a lucky punch too huh? How come he never repeated it?

Posted April 16, 2014 6:39 pm 


The Mad Scientist

Havoc it takes a real boxing fan to know that styles make fights..only a fanboy resorts to triangle theories to satisfy their deluded minds..

Posted April 16, 2014 6:29 pm 


The Mad Scientist

Pactards say Marquez is shook but the only one who’s shook is Manny and it shows in how he fights now and how he’s being shaken when socked by an average puncher at best in Bradley..btw, who’s crying and whining now, its not Marquez I’ll tell you that..Lol!

Posted April 16, 2014 6:26 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: it was a lucky punch! How come Marquez never repeat it to Bradley? Bradley just schooled the senior citizen Marquez! If it was not then he should have done it to Bradley! Lucky punch! With a boost of PED! Manny just schooled Bradley let see who Marquez wants to rematch. Pacqiuao or Bradley? I say Bradley because he needs to avenge his loss! Pacqiuoa will fight Floyd or Khan next.

Posted April 16, 2014 6:24 pm 


JonnE.JaGozza

Who wants to see this fight yet again, I’d rather like to see a rematch with Bradley… I don’t beleive neither one has much left … No logic in this at all …Boxingdictionary.com …The Language of the Ring

Posted April 16, 2014 6:23 pm 


The Mad Scientist

Poor pactatrds, they’re yearning so bad to go back the illusion when Pacquiao was this so called untouchable dominant force who was running through everybody from David Diaz all the way up to Shane Mosley until he met Kid Dynamite once again..now Manny has been reduced to being flattened by a small, old lightweight and being challenged by an average puncher at best in Bradley and not wanting any part of a real fight against a so called punching bag in Brandon Rios when not to long ago Manny was crushing these supposed monsters..real boxing fans are now thanking the great Juan Manuel Marquez for showing us the truth about Manny Pacquiao and his fans and what the real is..

Posted April 16, 2014 6:20 pm 


Titopa

tyler – Go look up the definition of “whooped”.

Posted April 16, 2014 6:18 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – No such thing as luck when that’s about the 10th time you’ve landed that punch. Quit whining and crying, get over it. Marquez won with a PERFECTLY TIMED right hand that Pacquiao never saw coming, give credit where credit is due.

Posted April 16, 2014 6:17 pm 


Titopa

moonshineman – Jim Lampley? LOL Okay, what about the hundreds and thousands of people who believe Marquez won? Get out of here. Jim Lampley hahaha.

Posted April 16, 2014 6:16 pm 


Straight Right

I wouldn’t take Jim Lampley’s word for a valid argument. He’s been guilty of cheerleading for years.

Posted April 16, 2014 6:13 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: lucky well timed punch! I got that! I hit that Marquez leveled Pacqioua in the six. You critize The peoples champ for not closing the shows on previous fight but you never wonder where in the world that welled time powerful shots all this time? Pedquez is juicing to get the lucky power well timed shot! Think! Marquez never down Manny in 3 previous fight.

Posted April 16, 2014 6:09 pm 


tyler

Manny just whooped Bradley, dat real!

Posted April 16, 2014 6:01 pm 


tyler

Looks like the Marquez tards crying really, Pacman is 2-1-1 up with the dude and a World Champ again, while JMM groupies are still crying about 2004 and 2008 and forgetting Manny’s b1tch Bradley whooped JMM too, y’all, haha!

Posted April 16, 2014 6:00 pm 


moonshineman

Titopa

NO ONE, with a straight face can say Pacquiao is a “better boxer” than Marquez, we know that is NOT true. What Pacquiao proved in their bouts was his superior hand speed and punching power, but that was never enough to convincingly beat Marquez IMO. The only fight I felt Pacquiao probably should’ve gotten the nod was the 1st, the others were very close in which I personally felt Marquez won via SD.
Posted April 16, 2014 5:03 pm

In the 2nd fight just before the 12th round started, Jim Lampely stated that Marquez needed a knockout to win. Clearly Jim Lampely does not agree with you. Go back and watch the fight to confirm what I just said.

Posted April 16, 2014 5:56 pm 


The Mad Scientist

Are these pactards still crying..Lol!, its obvious nothing is gonna get them over the hump of having to remember their hero being flattened by a Dinamita right hand..

Posted April 16, 2014 5:38 pm 


Straight Right

Well said Titopa

Posted April 16, 2014 5:37 pm 


Be Real

PEEJ, nope, fights are scored round by round and the judges judged the fights and Marquez couldn’t win any of them! Marquez landed more in the second one, not sure about their first encounter. He took it out of the judges hands in IV, good for him. Sports fans are often cry babies though. A lot of people just wanted JMM to get the decisions because it’s an upset then and a bigger story. If Pac had lost the decisions, people would be griping he was the one robbed, yada yada yada. Personally I think the real score between them should probably be 2-2, but it’s 2-1-1 and people have to get over it. Judges can’t win in these situations anyway.

Posted April 16, 2014 5:07 pm 


Titopa

NO ONE, with a straight face can say Pacquiao is a “better boxer” than Marquez, we know that is NOT true. What Pacquiao proved in their bouts was his superior hand speed and punching power, but that was never enough to convincingly beat Marquez IMO. The only fight I felt Pacquiao probably should’ve gotten the nod was the 1st, the others were very close in which I personally felt Marquez won via SD.

Posted April 16, 2014 5:03 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – Calling Marquez a cry baby while crying about him getting lucky. how ironic!

Posted April 16, 2014 4:57 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – “lucky punch” is what Pactards say…boxing fans say it was a “well timed punch that caught Pacquiao on the point of the chin”…aren’t you a boxing fan?

Posted April 16, 2014 4:56 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – What it proved was Marquez had the ability and power to CLOSE THE SHOW, something Pac could NOT do in the 42 rounds they boxed, Marquez always got up and always out-boxed Pacquiao.

Posted April 16, 2014 4:55 pm 


Havoc

The peoples Champ schooled Bradley who schooled Marquez who KO the peoples champ with the lucky punch! LuCKY PUNCH!

Posted April 16, 2014 4:55 pm 


Havoc

2-1-1 you can include the lucky punch! Cry baby needs to cry more to get another shots at the peoples champ! I bet he is scared! I like to hear cry baby call for another fight with the peoples champ. It’s meaning less for PAC to fight Marquez who gmhe beat twice! But if Marquez wants then!

Posted April 16, 2014 4:53 pm 


Straight Right

So the writer thinks PacNap was on the verge of stopping JMM. PacNap has never been able to put JMM away even when he dropped him 3 times in round 1. Could have, would have, should have, but he didn’t. The fact remains that only JMM was able to close the show. It’s funny how anyone thinks PacNap would have stopped JMM in his tracks. Yes, he got some good rounds in, but Pac’s daddy put him to bed. No need for a 5th encounter. Let JMM have a go at these young lines like Danny Garcia & Brandon Rios. Those would be great fights as well.

Posted April 16, 2014 4:51 pm 


PEEJ

Be Real you are going by punch stats. If you use punch stats as a way to judge a fight then you shouldn’t be trying to judge fights. Punch stats is no way to determine who won the fight. If that is the case then Marquez clearly won the first 2 fights since the punch stats clearly favor him.

Posted April 16, 2014 4:51 pm 


PRUDENTIAL

And another Bradley Pacquiao will be too much too!

Posted April 16, 2014 4:48 pm 


PRUDENTIAL

Yes. It would be too much.

Posted April 16, 2014 4:46 pm 


te tumbo

“. . . Pacman landed more scoring punches in a very close fight”(?). i can’t recall a single meaningful Pacquiao* punch in III. i do recall Pacquiao* being consistently caught flat-footed by Marquez lead rights and uppercuts and combinations. IMO, only because the Name of the other fighter is “Pacquiao*” does anybody consider defending that bogus decision. the only thing Marquez didn’t do was score the KO. he saved that for last.

Posted April 16, 2014 4:37 pm 


Be Real

JMM’s fans have limited grounds for saying he was robbed in Pacquiao-Marquez 3 when Pacman landed more scoring punches in a very close fight.

Posted April 16, 2014 4:15 pm 


te tumbo

“IMBECILESTIC”(?!?) . . . (lol).

Posted April 16, 2014 4:14 pm 


te tumbo

Marquez convincingly outboxed Pacquiao* in III and FLATTENED him in IV. not to mention fighting him to a “Draw” after three first-round KDs. unless Pacquiao* can guarantee $25 million for a fifth and final bout in Mexico City, what could possibly be the incentive for Marquez? he’s got nothing more to prove and he’ll be 42 to Pacquiao’s* 36 the soonest this bout could be confirmed. desire for a fifth bout is nothing but a continuation of every Pactard’s* dream to FInally catch an “older”, “smaller”, and “slower” Marquez in unequivocal decline, which would prove NOTHING. the rivalry is OVER. Marquez is Greater. Viva Marquez!

Posted April 16, 2014 3:59 pm 


te tumbo

“So 2-1-1 in favor of Manny” and a 1-1 tie between Bradley and Pacquiao*. “That’s it that’s all!”

Posted April 16, 2014 3:58 pm 


te tumbo

not only was Bradley able to repeatedly sting Pacquiao* and even momentarily punch him off of his feet, Pacquiao* was not able to seriously hurt Bradley despite landing some flush-shots of his own.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:56 pm 


PEEJ

And Marquez should of gotten the nod in the 3rd fight. He clearly beat Pac

Posted April 16, 2014 3:54 pm 


te tumbo

each and every single KD Marquez experienced v. Pacquiao* were of the flash-variety. Marquez has actually remained on his feet when he appeared most seriously hurt in II and IV. otherwise, Marquez rose to his feet each time and continued to take Pacquiao* to school for the remainder of their bouts.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:54 pm 


PEEJ

In every fight Marquez hurt Pac. There is so only so much your chin can take before it breaks and Pacs finally broke when Marquez landed that punch. So saying he never dropped him before means nothing. And now Pacs chin isn’t what it used to be, proof is in Bradley hurting Pac.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:52 pm 


te tumbo

correction: “it was a convincing win for Marquez where he is losing by” a single point. primarily due to the stomp-assisted KD for Pacquiao*.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:43 pm 


Havoc

Titopa: it was a convincing win for Marquez where he is losing on points! My point is that super one punch That KO Pac doesn’t erase or Ptove that he won any previous fight with Pacman. All 3 fights went on a distant and Pac get away with majority decisions. 4th fight Manny is leading on score cards until the KO punch that put him to sleep. So 2-1-1 in favor of Manny. That’s it that’s all!

Posted April 16, 2014 3:37 pm 


jim

Titopa, at one stage JMM was flat on his back on the canvas stretched out like a tablecloth with his arms in a crucifixation pose, i.e. flattened, lol! Yes, some of Pacquiao’s fans are childish and poor losers too. Marquez* fans do not have the monopoly on that. Score to Manny in the Pacquiao vs Marquez* series, 2-1-1.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:33 pm 


Ray Ray

Not many choices….Bradley 3 or Marquez 5? Maybe throw Provo in2 the mix. I think Manny v Marquez has run it’s course. I’m also picking Alvorado in an upset against Marquez, in which case def no need 4 a manny v Marquez 5

Posted April 16, 2014 3:17 pm 


Titopa

carytop – Yup. Roach himself admitted he didn’t know what Ariza was giving Pacquiao, yet the Pactards will say “it was probably protein”…if it was, then Ariza wouldn’t have kept it a secret. Pacquiao could come out and say that he himself has cheated and his fans will still say something like “he’s only saying that cause he was told to”…they’re the most hypocritical fans ever!

Posted April 16, 2014 3:11 pm 


Titopa

Havoc – “It would have been more convincing if Marquez won in a majority decision with Blow out lead”…NOTHING is more convincing that a 6th round KO. It wasn’t a extremely fast KO that didn’t answer any questions, this was a 3rd round knockdown that lead to a 6th round KO.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:05 pm 


carytop

Manny was supposed to get an emphatic victory over JMM instead it was Manny who got KTFO.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:05 pm 


carytop

Pactards why is there still even an argument about JMM? Shows Manny cant solve him and close out the issue after 4 fights. Manny was the one who got flattened not Marquez.

Posted April 16, 2014 3:00 pm 


carytop

Some say JMM is 4-0 against Manny. So called ATG’s should not have such unfinished business.

Posted April 16, 2014 2:57 pm 


Havoc

First 3 fights Marquez didn’t down Pacman and Pacman did every fight! They said its a close fight and could good eigther way but unfortunately Majority of the judges gave it to Pac. Now the 4th unnecessary fight went on to a KO where Pacman is leading the score card. It would have been more convincing if Marquez won in a majority decision with Blow out lead. Then than would prove the last previous fight could have been his but since it’s a one punch doesn’t prove he is better than the 3 previous fight! So record stand 2-1-1 favor the peoples champ.

Posted April 16, 2014 2:52 pm 


Titopa

jim – “but he and many of his fans are bad losers”….you even read some of the stuff Pactards say about Pac’s lost to Marquez?

Posted April 16, 2014 2:20 pm 


Titopa

jim – Look up the word “flat”, Marquez was NEVER flat, he was dropped…Pacquiao, was FLAT, legs flat, arms flat, face flat…he was FLATened.

Posted April 16, 2014 2:18 pm 


moonshineman

No interest.

Posted April 16, 2014 1:58 pm 


Fight Aficionado

Four times was too much. We don’t need to see the same fight over and over when there are many other viable opponents.

Posted April 16, 2014 1:40 pm 


Be Real

Let’s see Manny v Juan AGAIN so it’ll be 3-1-1 for The Pacman!

Posted April 16, 2014 1:16 pm 


Hidalg0

“Flattened means you don’t get up. Pac was flattened by Marquez. ”

One of the scariest KOs I have ever seen, Peej. “Flattened” might even be an understatement.

Posted April 16, 2014 1:04 pm 


jim

PEEJ, flattened means flattened whether you get up or not, and Marquez was flattened, flat on his back arms oustretched! 2-1-1.

Posted April 16, 2014 1:03 pm 


Hidalg0

Nice article Ivan.

My thoughts: Juan Manuel Marquez had four chances to figure out how to decisively beat Manny Pacquiao. He did so. But it wasn’t because Marquez developed some new or “special” punch or series of punches. It was because he trained to build the power to go with the punches he knew he could land and already had in their previous fights.

Juan Manuel Marquez knows how to fight Manny Pacquiao–as Pac does him. But in their past three fights, Juan did not have the power to stop Manny. And because he didn’t, and because these two fighters are so closely matched in skills and ability, Juan needed something extra to close the show on Manny. Primarily that something extra was power. And in tandem with that power, Juan improved his speed and timing.

Juan clearly displayed that power and much improved attributes twice in their fourth fight. After all, when had Marquez ever knocked Manny down before that? Answer: Never. It was one of the most shocking moments in boxing history, only to be totally overshadowed by Juan’s devastating KO of Manny in the sixth round.

As for the possility of, and my thoughts on a fifth fight between them, my first instinct is to say no, I’ve already had enough of that. But when I think about it, I realize and acknowledge that any time these two guys fight it’s a dynamite show. Both men are so competitive and so closely matched, it’s always a war between them.

So, considering that both of these men are likely approaching the twilights of their careers, why not enjoy their fights for at least one more time. As long as they are able to perform at the level they do, boxing fans have nothing to lose.

Posted April 16, 2014 1:01 pm 


PEEJ

Flattened means you don’t get up. Pac was flattened by Marquez. Difference is Pac can’t keep Marquez down

Posted April 16, 2014 12:56 pm 


jim

Juan Manuel Marquez* was flattened THREE times in 1 round by the Pacman….a 10-6 round IF EVER THERE WAS ONE, called 10-7 by one judge which indirectly cost Pac victory in that fight, a draw. Marquez* just didn’t do enough to overhaul Manny. No way Marquez* won that one. Making the bouts close is one thing, winning them something else. Pacman outlanded JMM in the Third fight, which was very close once more. JMM is a very good boxer, good champ in his own right no doubt, but he and many of his fans are bad losers. Pac got careless in Marquez* 4 coming off the bogus loss to Mr Bradley (who incidentally beat JMM too while Pac has just beaten Bradley) so JMM finally got to win one…Manny will do a LOT better than Marquez* did, in any Floyd bout, that’s for sure!!

Posted April 16, 2014 12:48 pm 


Havoc

5th fight is meaningless, unless you want to go six! 2-1-1 in favor of The peoples champ!

Posted April 16, 2014 12:43 pm 


carytop

Manny ran face first into a great counter right hand and was put to sleep. Pactards wonder why they are despised by so many. Some say JMM has never lost to Pacquiao. Manny just cant solve Marquez yet hus stupid fans call him the greatest. 2 fights ago Manny was urinating and drooling face first on the canvas in front of Mitt Romney.

Posted April 16, 2014 12:26 pm 


carytop

Yeah Roach admitted Ariza was putting an unknown substance in Manny’s drinks. Not much response from Pac supporters except their silly Mayweather xylocaine nonsense. If Manny lied to his wife about his affair with Krista Ranillo (and others) then he could lie to his fans.

Posted April 16, 2014 12:22 pm 


Anonymous

“Marquez was only behind by a single point (a flash-KD) going into the 6th round. only boxing neophytes are influenced by the nick across Marquez’s nose that streamed blood onto his face. otherwise, Marquez was focused, composed, and poised to strike the entire 6-round bout. in fact, Pacquiao* narrowly avoided being at least dropped a second time during the final 3rd-round flurry and was soundly outclassed in the 4th. Manny* stepped on Marquez’s foot to cause his KD in the 5th but accidentally landed a right-hand that did put Marquez in trouble and in typical Pacquiao* fashion, he once again failed to close the show and instead kicked into another punching frenzy that Marquez gamely countered in the final seconds of that round. the 6th-round consisted mostly of Pacquiao* making himself a moving target for Marquez but “Dinamita’s” intent, indeed his prediction, was a KO all-along. it was necessary after outpunching and outclassing Pacquiao* for an “official” loss(?) in III and he did this at 39-years-old. who will Manny* be fighting aat 39? other than creditors?”

Posted April 16, 2014 11:54 am 


JMM the whiner

“Marquez was only behind by a single point (a flash-KD) going into the 6th round. only boxing neophytes are influenced by the nick across Marquez’s nose that streamed blood onto his face. otherwise, Marquez was focused, composed, and poised to strike the entire 6-round bout. in fact, Pacquiao* narrowly avoided being at least dropped a second time during the final 3rd-round flurry and was soundly outclassed in the 4th. Manny* stepped on Marquez’s foot to cause his KD in the 5th but accidentally landed a right-hand that did put Marquez in trouble and in typical Pacquiao* fashion, he once again failed to close the show and instead kicked into another punching frenzy that Marquez gamely countered in the final seconds of that round. the 6th-round consisted mostly of Pacquiao* making himself a moving target for Marquez but “Dinamita’s” intent, indeed his prediction, was a KO all-along. it was necessary after outpunching and outclassing Pacquiao* for an “official” loss(?) in III and he did this at 39-years-old. who will Manny* be fighting aat 39? other than creditors?”

Posted April 16, 2014 11:53 am 


etumbi etumbo etumba

“quoted by te tumbo:”

“Marquez gained the upper fighting-hand as early as the 3rd round of their first fight. the gap only increased during II and III culminating in the most Brutal, Rivalry-ending KO in Boxing history, which will always be the featured element of Marquez’s highlight reel: “Dinamita” detonates his right in Pacquiao’s* face; Pacquiao* drops face-first and butts-up into the ring canvas; Marquez hops over the “Get Crackin” logo and lumbers to the opposite corner to raise his hands in utter, unequivocal, and non-controversial triump. Viva Marquez!”

YEAH, BY KNOWINGLY HIRING A TRAINER WHO IS WELL KNOWN PRODUCER OF UNDETECTABLE PED’S!!! REMEMBER DURING HIS (JUANITA) PRIME HE CANNOT EVEN KNOCK MANNY DOWN JUST EVEN ONCE!!! NOW THAT HE IS OLD HE ACQUIRED MUSCLES AND STRENGTH FOR SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, EXCUSE ME… IT DOESN’T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENCE TO FIGURE THIS OUT OTHERWISE IF YOU CAN’T THEN YOU’RE THE TOTAL ABSOLUTE IMBECILE OF ALL TIME!!!

Posted April 16, 2014 11:49 am 


Anonymous

I hope manny fights marquez a 5th time, they always make for exciting fights! On another note I thought Jessie Vargas looked rally impressive Saturday night, I am anxious to see his next fight.

Posted April 16, 2014 11:42 am 


te tumbo

Marquez gained the upper fighting-hand as early as the 3rd round of their first fight. the gap only increased during II and III culminating in the most Brutal, Rivalry-ending KO in Boxing history, which will always be the featured element of Marquez’s highlight reel: “Dinamita” detonates his right in Pacquiao’s* face; Pacquiao* drops face-first and butts-up into the ring canvas; Marquez hops over the “Get Crackin” logo and lumbers to the opposite corner to raise his hands in utter, unequivocal, and non-controversial triump. Viva Marquez!

Posted April 16, 2014 11:38 am 


The Mad Scientist

Laughing at some of this idiots who say Marquez is shook when is obvious Pacquiao is the one who’s shook as it showed in last saturday’s fight..

Posted April 16, 2014 11:30 am 


Titopa

THAT is how you describe Marquez’s success vs Pacquiao…after 3 fights, you bet Marquez learned Pacquiao and finally devised a game-plan that worked perfectly. Marquez proved to be superior in terms of technique and ring intelligence.

Posted April 16, 2014 11:25 am 


yo

There is too much risk, and too little reward in fighting Marquez.

Marquez is a master at studying Pac’s style.

Pac doesn’t need to fight a man like Marquez.

Marquez now seems stronger and more commited to power punching than Pac.

The only way I would want to see Pac back in the ring with Marquez is if he hooked back up with Ariza.

Ariza had Pac breaking people’s eyesockets, destroying Shane Mosely’s heart, turning Clottey into a scared punching bag, and making Cotto run for his life.

Ariza stated Pac stopped lifting weights for the 4th Marquez fight- at the same time Marquez was bulking up to crazy levels. Ariza stated this is what cost Pac the fight- his lack of commitment to strength training.

Pac was feared when he embraced Ariza’s methods. Now he is not. All his power has magically disappeared.

If he refuses to get back his Ariza ways, Pac should fight easier competition.

He should fight Khan and Broner.

Two fighters that would bring more money- and easier fights as well.

Posted April 16, 2014 10:43 am 


PEEJ

Just read Marquez has no interest in a 5th fight. Even though Arum said he would fight the winner it is looking like that is not happening. On another note, Mikey Garcia is taking Arum to court to get out of his contract.

Posted April 16, 2014 9:49 am 


Hecdog

I can say with almost 100% certainty that Manny Pacquiao is the greatest fighter to ever live. His accomplishments, impact and influence on the sport and the great fighters he defeated leave no doubt in my mind that he is at the top. If you take in all the other factors like amateur experience, quality of trainer and access to quality gyms with quality fighters to work with, Manny is without a doubt the best ever. Can anyone imagine just how much greater Manny would have become if he had been raised in a boxing family like the Mayweathers along with the amateur experience and training in the Untied States. These missing pieces only make Manny Pacquiao stand head and shoulders above all past and present fighters. Manny Pacquiao learned to fight on his own. He became the only 8 division Boxing champion in history. He is at the top, and that accomplishment will never be duplicated again, trust me. A prime Manny Pacquiao had faster hands, better punching power, better agility and movement and more stamina than any fighter in history. If Manny had decided to stay at his best weight(140) that he can still make easily, no one would have ever beaten him. Manny is a miracle man to have stepped up and competed and defeated all those fighters in higher weight classes. Manny Pacquiao pound for pound IMHO is better than SR Robinson, SR Leonard. JC Chavez, H Armstrong, Kostya Tzyu, Tyson, Ali, RJ Junior, F Mayweather and others. Fans all remember Manny’s Reign of Terror as he tore through Barrera, Marquez, Hatton, De La Hoya, Margarito, Cotto, Clottey, Diaz, Mosely and others. His fights were the most action packed and exciting ever. Fans flocked from all over the world just to see him fight. Manny Pacquiao has always fought to make his fans happy. He is a warrior that challenged himself and never ran from anyone. Great fighters like Tyson, Roy Jones, Larry Holmes, Marvin Hagler, JC Chavez, Bradley, James Toney, Lennox Lewis, Roberto Duran and many more boxing legends have continually praised Manny Pacquiao. Fighters from all eras ahve been complimentary of this great iconic legend, and that speaks volumes about Manny Pacquiao the fighter and the man. Boxing fans today are lucky to have seen this once in a life time master piece of a fighter step into the ring and display his brilliance, greatness and unbelievable talent. Manny s more than a Picasso, more than a President, more than prodigy. Manny Pacquiao is boxing. I can still see the beautiful face of Dionesia Pacquiao cheering her son on with all of her passion, emotions and love for her son. She had a cross and her picture of baby Jesus as she was concerned for her son and prayed to God that Manny would not be hurt. There is nothing more touching and beautiful than to see a mother praying for her son and feeling each and every punch as if she was being hit. Manny Pacquiao should be proud to have such a loving and caring mother. Dionesia Pacquiao is a blessed lady to have given birth to the greatest fighter in boxing history. Trust me on this. Manny is the best ever!

Posted April 16, 2014 9:39 am 


te tumbo

the rivalry is OVER. Marquez is Greater. Viva Marquez!

Posted April 16, 2014 9:17 am 


te tumbo

my post immediately below . . .

Posted April 16, 2014 9:16 am 


Anonymous

Marquez was only behind by a single point (a flash-KD) going into the 6th round. only boxing neophytes are influenced by the nick across Marquez’s nose that streamed blood onto his face. otherwise, Marquez was focused, composed, and poised to strike the entire 6-round bout. in fact, Pacquiao* narrowly avoided being at least dropped a second time during the final 3rd-round flurry and was soundly outclassed in the 4th. Manny* stepped on Marquez’s foot to cause his KD in the 5th but accidentally landed a right-hand that did put Marquez in trouble and in typical Pacquiao* fashion, he once again failed to close the show and instead kicked into another punching frenzy that Marquez gamely countered in the final seconds of that round. the 6th-round consisted mostly of Pacquiao* making himself a moving target for Marquez but “Dinamita’s” intent, indeed his prediction, was a KO all-along. it was necessary after outpunching and outclassing Pacquiao* for an “official” loss(?) in III and he did this at 39-years-old. who will Manny* be fighting aat 39? other than creditors?

Posted April 16, 2014 9:15 am 


The Honeybadger

Most fans worldwide believe Marquez won all 4 or else we wouldn’t have had so many rematches. But as a true fan I’m not complaining. Manny has yet to beat Jmm Imo and tho he had Jmm hurt, Marquez is a wounded lion and most dangerous when hurt. The left hook has always been his achilles heel, but Mannys pride has always been the cause for him losing to Marquez. Bradley, Floyd, and esp Katsidis all hurt him with left hooks. Katsidis hurt Juan much worse than Manny ever did.

Posted April 16, 2014 9:12 am 


Ted “Theodore” Logan

Considering Marquez lost all but one fight ya it’s too much.

Posted April 16, 2014 9:02 am 


The Honeybadger

Why anyone would get tired of seeing great fights is beyond me. These 2 fighting each other 20 times make a classic each and everytime. Doesn’t matter who wins. Manny is spectacular, but Marquez has always been head and shoulders with him despite being a generation older than Manny. Boxing will miss both tremendously.

Posted April 16, 2014 8:58 am 


KOrnerman

It’ll happen no doubt.

Posted April 16, 2014 8:27 am 


Kupal

Why? For what if manny win or marquez the answer is so what, what if a close fight is that mean we see a6 fight reall!.

Posted April 16, 2014 8:11 am 


albeziel

Short answer, yes

Posted April 16, 2014 7:42 am 


moonshineman

Yes

Posted April 16, 2014 7:39 am 


Ilocano

Manny’s fights are soooo, soooo gooood and exciting that you cannot have enough of it. So addictive, and compelling to watch.You can say he’s not the best, he’s not HOF, he’s not a GOAT but to me he’s a dollar for dollar {$$$ } and pound for pound ( £££ ) value for money period and with an exclamation point/ points!!!!!

Posted April 16, 2014 7:35 am 


Jay rock

Boring

Posted April 16, 2014 7:33 am 


El Grand Campeon

Great rivalry. Respect to JMM…Thing is, Manny Mexecutes Marquez* one final time…

Posted April 16, 2014 6:29 am 


lionhard

Booooring! These fights have reached their expiration date! They were close fights that could have gone either way – depending on WHO you talk to. In any case, Marquez does NOT want a fifth fight, he tirelessly worked on a punch in the gym that landed perfectly on Pacquiao*! In Marquezs mind: that last fight & punch sealed the deal for his personal satisfaction!! And rightly so! Marquez has concluded, “Why risk having a 5th fight that would most likely go to the judges scorecard, when I already emphatically FLATTENED him??!!

Fans are FICKLE, they’ll never be satisfied with ANYTHING, unless they arbitrarily come to the conclusion that they should be. Haters may want a nonsensical 5th fight to relieve their hurt of seeing their hero laying almost lifeless in the ring, with Marquez running around in exultation; but a 5th fight will most likely pan out like the 1st 3! Pacquiao has nothing in the way of technique to to stymie Marquez, except a few occasional flurries that get Pac* fans thinking he can possibly overwhelm Marquez into submission – NOT! Marquez ALWAYS comes back with flurries of his own! Pointless fight.

Posted April 16, 2014 4:55 am 


jjb23

Yeah

Posted April 16, 2014 3:50 am 


@

Dеаd horsе??

Posted April 16, 2014 3:13 am 


lightsoutOhio

Just another top stink match. Once again.Sad Bob arum only cares about himself and Not about Manny legacy.
When Pacman becomes a free agent. may weather whipping that @ss period

Posted April 16, 2014 3:00 am 


Jb221

Yes it would stop beating a dead horse

Posted April 16, 2014 2:52 am 



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A retrospect of the 4th fight between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez – would five times be too much?









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