I think Muhammad Ali was probably one of the worst offenders of this ruling but like the writer mentions George Foreman employed this tactic often also i dont think its ever been a hugely enforced ruling i think it actually used to happen allot more. I myself don’t see a huge problem with the outstretched glove if it isn’t touching the other fighter with the open palm. All of virgil Hunters fighters use this as a range finder and a way to measure distance for defensive purposes except Angulo who is totally defensively inept.Posted May 22, 2014 12:49 am
dick tiger… “Tark like I said the only rule I could find was about using an open glove”
You have to read the rule book.. It’s in there.. Just because you can’t find something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.. The rule is you can’t leave your lead hand extended in your opponent’s face.. You have to retract it.
You can’t punch with an open glove period. You can’t strike with the palm, or palm your opponent at any time, not just when you’re extending your lead. It has nothing to do with leading.Posted May 21, 2014 10:25 pm
To some extent. I agree. What is even more important, however, is to think of something against clinchings, huggings and claspings.Posted May 21, 2014 11:45 am
I am not an expert in boxing. But the moment I saw Aydin’s face before the beginning of the bout I knew he was going to lose for fatigue. He looked like an impatient on a heavy diet. He was in a pitiable condition. Did he have nobody around him reasonable enough to warn him beforehand? Shame!Posted May 21, 2014 5:40 am
Tark like I said the only rule I could find was about using an open glove , tell us where to find this rule of yours.Posted May 21, 2014 4:41 am
Tyson never had great skills… He steam rolled people until he ran into Buster Douglas, Lennox Lewis, and Evander Holyfield… who weren’t having any.Posted May 20, 2014 11:01 pm
“Tyson HAD great defensive movement and skill he also had a good jab”
No Tyson didn’t… Not “great.”
When he fought big, tall, young, skilled, strong, fast heavyweight Mike got canned… He’s the only great heavyweight champion to get KO’d by 3 heavyweight champions who are OLDER than he is… Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield … Mike refused to fight the younger ones.. such as the Klitschkos.. “They’re too big for me” … so he fought Danny Williams and Kevin McBride instead… Didn’t win.Posted May 20, 2014 10:57 pm
I don’t see range finding that bad. A good boxer could destroy a range founder. That is like sticking out a lazy jab and not bringing it back soon enough. It could backfire and cause you to get KO’d.Posted May 20, 2014 10:56 pm
Is there a rule against jamming your forearm into the opponents neck which Mayweather does and doesn’t get a warnin? Ali got away with pushing down on his opponents head. I guess if you Are a big draw Refs are intimidated and don’t want to be cut out of an assignment by the. Promoters.Posted May 20, 2014 10:28 pm
dick tiger.., “I did some research today and was unable to find a rule about this listed in any of the rules of boxing listed. The only thing that was listed was a rule about using an open glove.”
You can’t can’t just leave your lead hand out there in your opponent’s face to block his vision. The rule is there, and the referee will call it.
Ken Hissner.., “Rocky Marciano would have bent low and uppercut him at the elbow and Holmes would have gotten the message”
Now that’s a fight.. 5’10″ X 184 unskilled Marciano vs 6’4″ X 213 super skilled Larry Holmes.. All Larry has to do is keep throwing.. Mike Tyson was 220 and lightning fast, so it was a little different scenario than Rocky.
It took Tyson 90 seconds to KO Michael Michael Spinks.. It took Marciano 9 rounds to stop Don Cockell, a guy who was previously KO’d a lot — including by middleweight Randy Turpin.Posted May 20, 2014 10:25 pm
Not just taller fighters use this. I often used this against fighters taller than me as a range finder.Posted May 20, 2014 6:42 pm
On a side note: Postol looked SUPERB!! He looked absolutely fantastic, he dismantled Aydin, absolutely destroyed him like no other.Posted May 20, 2014 5:33 pm
Rabbit punches are good against Klitschko to knock him down- Sam Peter did it twice but please disqualify him immediately if he will be taller or have a longer arm! Can’t win in America! Nop…Posted May 20, 2014 5:24 pm
Ye… Both Postol, and Klitschko can’t do it! They are ukrainians! American’s are O.K. But those two? No-0-0-o!Posted May 20, 2014 5:16 pm
I did some research today and was unable to find a rule about this listed in any of the rules of boxing listed. The only thing that was listed was a rule about using an open glove.Posted May 20, 2014 3:52 pm
thankyou mr. pistol, and good luck to youPosted May 20, 2014 3:36 pm
No one used the football “straight arm” more than Larry Holmes and he never got warned for it. Rocky Marciano would have bent low and uppercut him at the elbow and Holmes would have gotten the message!Posted May 20, 2014 3:34 pm
There is no rule in pro boxing about holding your hand forward as a range finder.Posted May 20, 2014 2:33 pm
Lewis.., “Has Been Rahman was sticking his left arm out to block my right, so I threw a round house and knocked him out.”Posted May 20, 2014 2:02 pm
Another good counter for a lingering lead in your face—since the left side of his body is wide open—is a quick straight right to the inside edge of his pec. You won’t see the target, just throw right under his extended arm. It hurts and he won’t expect it. If he winces and pulls his head down, you can get him on the nose with a left uppercut and follow with a chopping right. It only works once, so next time jab him on the pec because he’s looking for your right. A jab there it hurts almost as much. A couple good shots to the pec will curtail the behavior.
It’s a scoring area. If you punch his arm they may not score it. If you have longer reach you can cross over his lingering lead, but why not take low hanging fruit?Posted May 20, 2014 1:56 pm
“Punch the elbow…will cure that. Win the fight too.” – Or a right through the extended arm. That’s how Lewis KOed Rahman in the rematch, though Rahman was putting both arms out. His trainer inexplicably thought that would prevent Lewis from using his reach.Posted May 20, 2014 1:46 pm
I did notice Postol doing it often, but to be quite honest it didn’t look to be “excessive”, he also wouldn’t really ‘hold’ his arm out, he was kinda pawing with it…on the other hand, what Wladimir Klitschko does is overly excessive, he’ll go as far as holding the top of his opponents head.Posted May 20, 2014 1:21 pm
If you know who is the referee for the match, you kinda almost know how the match may go. My personal fav ref who usually does a good job is Kenny Bayless.Posted May 20, 2014 12:10 pm
Rabbit punches can also be difficult to police. If two fighters face each other and a rabbit punch lands, it usually means one of the fighters has turned away from the punch, and it’s his own fault.Posted May 20, 2014 12:04 pm
Tommy Hearns was pretty good at that too. holding out that long left jab to set up his right hand bombs!Posted May 20, 2014 7:49 am
Way to often it seems that the judges “pay no Attention.”Posted May 20, 2014 7:36 am
I heard Lederman’s comments but I don’t think Postol was fouling. Somtimes, when doubling and tripling his left, Lederman was claiming a “stiff arm.” I’ve seen a lot worse.Posted May 20, 2014 7:26 am
Ali, Holmes, Lewis and both Klitschkos have used this plenty, but I agree it shouldn’t be allowed — especially when it’s used (as it often was by Lennox Lewis, for example) to hold the head/push back the head of the opponent once he’s hurt. Especially when the opponent is on the ropes, there’s a fine line between this and plain hitting and holding. Failing referee intervention, hard hooks to the elbow joint while moving to the side or ducking under should be the strategy of those on the receiving end of it, I think. Of course, if you’re already hurt on the ropes, that may not be possible…Posted May 20, 2014 7:14 am
GREATS LIKE LARRY Holmes have used this. I believe it only becomes illegal when the closed fist of the glove is opened (which, then becomes a blinker to blind the opponent)… I can’t remember but I’m sure I saw both Ali and Holmes warned (maybe not officially) by the ref for using this method in a couple of fights.
I too have used this same technique but not only as an offensive method, but also a defensive method to stop an on rushing target and gain me space to either step back or to the side and set up my own attacks/ counters.
I believe it only becomes a problem if it becomes a PUSH, like Amir Khan is expert at, he also turns this into a method where he pushes his lead hand down on his opponents that forces their heads down and towards their chests, blinding them for follow up punches like he did to Barrera and in other recent fights.
The real solution I believe is to look at the five or six issues that either really cause furore in fights or are so blurred that no one is totally sure about the efficacy of them.
1: Leaning on
The above are just a few issues which have miffed fans for a while and I believe all the bodies could easily get together once per year and try to thrash out some universal and common ground on these matters. Some of the rules are so old, they need to be looked at again and perhaps re-clarified or re-classified.
I was brought up and fought at a time when better boxing was rewarded, whereas we were always told that across the pond judges favoured the come forward aggression of a fighter.
Recent high level fights have caused a lot of uproar amongst fans who still argue to this day about Mayweather vs Castillo I and Pacquiao vs Marquez I, II and III.Posted May 20, 2014 6:16 am
The measuring with your lead hand rule is kinda stupid in some ways as long as you are not holding it and sticking it in their face and physically pushing off with it then you should be able to “measure” as it is a form of a feint. If it is stuck in the opponents face to position him then it becomes holding. That is the distinction that should be made. I have seen refs very quick to discourag a lingering lead head staying out. But they let rabbit punching and kidney punching slip by more often as well as excessive holding.Posted May 20, 2014 4:56 am
I use it as a range finder then turn it in to a quick jab n turn right after.. SkillsPosted May 20, 2014 4:50 am
Bo Bo Olson
Punch the elbow…will cure that. Win the fight too.Posted May 20, 2014 3:48 am
I like the idea of this article, but what I don’t like is that the writer hasn’t found the literature sating that this isnt allowed.
I personally think its a grey area and it would have been nice to see the official yes or no on this.Posted May 20, 2014 2:48 am
I think that the rule is that the use of an open glove in this manner is a rules infraction.Posted May 20, 2014 1:45 am
That’s why when your opponent does this to you you immediately retreat or you continuously smack his glove down like Wlad DID vs Ibragimov.Posted May 20, 2014 1:15 am
There is no “range finder” rule… But you can’t hold your lead glove out full range, and push it between your opponents’ gloves to block his vision.. Boxers use this tactic and then throw a straight right hand, or throw a right hook around the guard that the opponent never sees.Posted May 20, 2014 12:14 am
This specifically is not a rule breaker in any state or country I’m aware of, if one thinks so please give me a link or write it out. Holding or clinching is subjective also and usually its the constant use of it or refusing to break that can earn a warning. Rabbit punching, hitting on the back, hitting below the belt, etc. are clearly understood rule breaking.Posted May 19, 2014 11:17 pm
Lone Turbo-Hamster and Cub
Tons of cheating gets let through.
Some people say it is just part of the pro game, some don`t.
When Hopkins uses his head, follows through with an elbow or forearm, grabs, or takes a diving claiming a non existent low blow you`ll hear commentators blow it off as “wily old pro tricks”, and they let him get away with it where others might not.
I am all for holding being properly policed. Sometimes a clinch is inevitable, but it shouldn`t be the SOLE tactic because a guy can`t infight.
For me, if you initiate a clinch 3 times in a round, you should not be able to win that round – the best you should get is a 10-10, 9-9.Posted May 19, 2014 10:28 pm
Great point. Refs in the NBA and NFL are continuously graded and based on their grading they get to ref the Big games. This should be true for refs and judges but there is no evaluation system in Boxing. Thats why you get so much POOR judging and reffing. All of those rabbit punches that Maidana landed not one point was deducted. GOOD thing that SKILLS is GREATER than Illegal tactics.Posted May 19, 2014 10:19 pm
Possibly refs need to be continually evaluated, trained, etc similar to judges.Posted May 19, 2014 9:46 pm
Author’s premise is true. Refs don’t enforce many of the rules. In addition to the range finder rule, they rarely enforce the excessive holding rule. Back in the 90s they did, in fact a dude got DQed for excessive holding in a title bout vs Lennox Lewis. Also hitting behind the head. Many times I’ve seen dudes score KO wins when in fact it was a blatant foul that should’ve resulted in a point deduction and up to 5 minute rest. Boxing refs have only two fighters to watch whereas in the NBA it’s 10. Why the incompetence?Posted May 19, 2014 9:44 pm