Byrd has so much boxing knowledge. I agree with everything he said. He should take roys place on hboPosted November 4, 2012 11:53 pm
I think Byrd is most likely right. While anything can happen in boxing, I do think Pacquiao/Marquez IV will probably not be a whole lot different than their third fight.Posted November 3, 2012 3:26 pm
Floyd made 87 million dollars in his last 2 fights — making him the highest OVER-paid athlete on the planet. Pacquiao is riding on the back seat of that bicycle.Posted November 2, 2012 9:57 pm
“is not a dirty fighter by any means.” Wanna bet? Floyd is a master at using his forearms and elbows–especially his forearms. Floyd Mayweather Jr. sure as hell fights dirty, he’s just slicker at doing it.Posted November 2, 2012 9:56 pm
Floyd made 87 million dollars in his last 2 fights — making him the highest paid athlete on the planet.. Pacquiao is only the 2nd hghest paid at 72 million.. Money doesn’t need to fight often because he makes too much money.. He fights as often as Sugar Ray Leonard fought following his victory over Hagler.. Leonard was stripped of the middleweight title for failing to fight Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, or Julian Jackson, and fought whom he damn pleased … Leonard was so big he could fight who he wanted—and Floyd can do the same—he’s so big nobody can tell him what to do… However he hasn’t been stripped of any championships for failure to fight anybody, and he hasn’t gotten whipped due to lack of activity … stuff that could still happen.Posted November 2, 2012 8:40 pm
Can anyone explain this to me , why mayweather is fighting so rearly ? I mean come on , when he first fought in welterweight after only TWO fights in welterweight devision (baldomir -most boring fight in history ,delahoya-split decision)he decided to retire?????? And at a time welterweight devision was full of talents , than he came back and gave us Marquez and Mosley ??? And since than he fought he only Ortiz and cotto ……now myquestion is why he is not giving us more fights ?? I really don’t get it!Posted November 2, 2012 6:30 pm
REM, i suggest you cue-up prime Hector Camacho on YouTube. now That is elite and superior footwork: always out of range of punches but always in range of delivering his own with a variety of additional defensive and offensive moves to consistently stymie the offensive rushes of his opponents. otherwise, effectively circling (i.e., mastering the range) and cutting off a ring is the fundamental criteria of excellent footwork. as you posted, Pacquiao* does not do this effectively but he does have the hops to lunge forward and jump backwards resulting in difficult angles for a conventional opponent to adapt too. at best, Pacquiao’s* footwork is unorthodox. at worst, it is terrible according to any traditional standard.Posted November 2, 2012 5:28 pm
Extra word keepPosted November 2, 2012 5:19 pm
Pardon -Te tumboPosted November 2, 2012 5:16 pm
Te timbo ur breakdown of Pac is flawless accept for ur statement about his footwork yeah he doesn’t cut the ring off or circle but his footspeed and ability to get to spots in an angle on his opponents is what makes him the special fighter he is as far as how effectively anyone is with their footwork hes amongst the best in the sport. And like Floyd is Marquez 10.0 Pac is Zab and Chop Chop 10.0 thats y Floyd spoke of fear for his health keep Floyd knows thats what it is.Posted November 2, 2012 5:15 pm
Pacquiao* is an excellent puncher NOT a boxer. he doesn’t possess a consistent jab, has porous defense, and his footwork is absolutely terrible according to any traditional boxing standard. he does have a sturdy chin and jaw, extraordinary stamina, and explosive KD power, i.e., a puncher NOT a boxer. Marquez usually punishes this type of fighter and nobody has busted Pacquiao* up more than Marquez. however, Floyd literally FEASTs on these type of one-dimensional sluggers and is at least a notch superior to Marquez in every category. whatever Marquez has or can do to Pacquiao*, Floyd has more of and can do better for the time being. Team Pacquiao’s* strategy all-along has been to postpone this matchup for as long as possible pending some sign of decline from Mayweather.Posted November 2, 2012 4:49 pm
Floyd is an extremely proud and consummate ring-professional. in fact, the isolated weight-related lapse v. Marquez only emphasizes this profile. Floyd lives clean, thoroughly prepares, and is not a dirty fighter by any means. he can also be an emotional guy outside the ring who can overreact to minor provocations and i have no doubt that Team Pacquiao’s* $10 million overweight clause was designed to provoke Floyd. the frivolous lawsuit only added fuel to their emerging animosity. perhaps Floyd’s OST request was a childish over-reaction to having his professional integrity challenged by the excessive weight-clause(?). exCept for the fact that he’s adopted it for every one of his subsequent fights ever since without incident, i.e., it wasn’t all talk and posturing for Pacquiao’s* benefit or irritation. more recently, we all witnessed Arum’s flustered scrambling earlier this year to avoid reconciling Pacquiao* and Mayweather’s fight-calendars. not to mention the new and outrageous condition demanding that an entirely new boxing venue be built to accommodate their showdown (what’s the status of that? . . . pft?!). these are all objective and documented Facts. they all happened independent of subjective spin and continue to happen, e.g. the latest: Arum claimes that Pacquiao* is tentatively available in April 2013 but not in May unless Floyd becomes available in April and Pacquiao* either shifts to May or June or retires, i.e., the same old shell game that Arum’s been playing to avoid his cash-cow being slaughtered by Mayweather.Posted November 2, 2012 4:39 pm
Happyboy, while I respect your opinion, it’s rather ignorant not to realize that it takes only one fighter to keep a fight from happening.
I never really thought that either fighter was intentionally keeping the fight from taking place until I heard his comments in Vegas this past May. I honestly couldn’t believe what I was hearing.
You can say that I’m ignorant if you would like, but quite honestly, I really don’t see how anyone could form any other conclusion after hearing his comments…my commentary from the fightsaga.com article sums up my feelings on the matter.Posted November 2, 2012 3:54 pm
Styles make fights.. Holmes and Foreman never fought.. I mean…they were the same age. Each had 30-plus year careers from their pro debuts to their last fights. Holmes said, “I knew Foreman wouldn’t fight me but I always held out hope. He was wide open for jabs and I had the best jab. It’s like Ray Mercer. I was 43 years old for that fight, but Mercer ate jabs. He was tough for most guys but he was no problem for me.”
Floyd is going to be tough fight for Pacquiao—for the same reason Marquez is tough for Pacquiao. Both Floyd and JMM can lead and counter better than Pac—so the main focus for both of them is using their feet, staying out of extended exchanges, and making it into a boxing match. It’s much harder work for MP to make it into a fight. Pac has the speed and skills to outbox most guys so this is not usually a major problem.Posted November 2, 2012 1:05 pm
The random OSDTs issue has been taken care of… The money-split issue has been taken care of… May-Pac will happen next year for certain—with one caveat… Pacquiao needs to do his job and beat Marquez—that’s the only major issue left to conquer.Posted November 2, 2012 12:59 pm
With all due respect fight fans, why is it everytime Pacman has a fight this whole Mayweather vs Pacman saga has to come again? As Hidalgo said earlier if either fighter wanted the fight it would have happened years ago. Sorry Mr Herron any journalist, publicist, commentator or fight fan who chooses a side on this matter is ruther ignorant to the obvious which is both camp don’t want the fight as both have made every excuse NOT to make the fight be it : 1. Request for $10M for every pound over the agreed weight, 2. Request for Random OSDT, 3. Cut off date on a random drug test, 4. 55/45 split, 5. Building a stadium, 6. Court case over smack talk in boxing etc. These two divas are making top money in sport without fighting each and the only loser here is us the fans. Bob will continue with his inhouse matchmaking and make millions while Mayweather will continue breaking ppv records until someone either than Pac beats him. Thats what the future holds for us or another Roy Jones vs Bernard Hopkins 2 ( which never mattered as both fighters were shells of former selves which is like wanking instead of getting a bonk so best we just forget this fight ever happening and stop giving Top Rank free advertising on our shift.Posted November 2, 2012 12:00 pm
For the rec. ive posted those comments by Floyd from fightsaga numerous times i saw the interview and that is one of the many reasons i mostly blame Floyd for the fight not happening. Quotes like this are why i feel as crazy as it sounds that Pac has the mental edge and is in Floyds head. Floyds justified in his request for extensive ped testing its just the way he went about it that upset me going on a smear campaign in the media instead of requesting it privately in negotiations. Floyd owes the boxing world and more importantly his loyal hardcore extremely supportive fanbase more than this.Posted November 2, 2012 11:45 am
HIDALGO, you perfecly describe why i’ve learned not to trust a single conflicting version of the “facts” that comes out of Pacquiao’s* camp, i.e., publicity stunts and rhetorical decoys. no version is official until they are printed on a mutually-approved and signed contract, which has been consistently sabotaged by Pacquiao’s* rejection of random testing. if Floyd’s testing condition was counter-gamesmanship in response to Pacquiao’s* unprecedented $10 million overweight penalty, so what? it’s harmless. in fact, it’s Team Pacquiao’s* relentless efforts to cast Floyd’s anti-doping condition in a sinister light that has cast Pacquiao* in a glaring and suspicious light. bottomline, i can see why Team Pacquiao* doesn’t want this fight. not even for $25-$50 million. conversely, i could never fathom a single reason why Mayweather would not want to collect what i’m certain would be a relatively easy multimillion dollar payday.Posted November 2, 2012 11:29 am
thanks Josef Herron , and sredmond great post as usually !Posted November 2, 2012 3:10 am
Pic, Tumbo is blind to a lot of things.
I gave him this link to an article I wrote in May with direct quotes from Mayweather and he was oblivious to my entire argument:
It’s pretty obvious to anyone who is looking at this through a clear scope.Posted November 2, 2012 1:43 am
Tumbo is obviously blinded by his loyalty to Floyd. Latrely, Pacquio has already come out publicly that he is accepting Floyd’s demand for unlimited testing and has even offered a 55-45 split in favor of Floyd. Floyd mysteriously has not responded thus leading to the conclusion that he is really avoiding Pacquiao.Posted November 2, 2012 1:08 am
I’m finally back and I’m exhausted.
Great chatting with everyone once again.
Please look for my article being published tomorrow. I did an interview with Abner Mares today and I hope you guys enjoy the write up that it generated.
Thanks again guys for reading my work!!Posted November 1, 2012 11:17 pm
Pacquiao needs to use his noggin this time, for more than a weapon… Everything being equal—in an initial clash between a fighter and a boxer the fighter has an advantage.. He throws unconventional punches and makes unorthodox moves that aren’t by the book, taking the boxer by surprise at times … In a rematch a boxer is better prepared for a fighter’s bag of tricks and makes adjustments that give him the edge … By the rubber match the boxer is feeling more comfortable. He’s aware of everything the fighter does—so he leads, he counters, he waits patiently, he maneuvers around the ring. He’s basking in his element because he knows his opponent so much better … Here is Pacquiao’s problem. He’s a very good boxer—but not as good as Marquez, who’s a great boxer. Pac is a great fighter—but JMM knows him extremely well. Therefore Pac must shake things up and come up with a brilliant game plan.. I’m not certain Roach is brilliant at this point.Posted November 1, 2012 10:08 pm
“now, what research can you submit that directly refutes or describes a change in Team Pacquiao’s* position?” Te tumbo, notwithstanding your quotes and cited links, I think most of us know that it’s often been hard hard to ascertain the truth or consistency coming out of the Pacquiao camp. Pac will say one thing, Arum another, Koncz yet another, Roach with his version, then there’s big mouthed Ariza to muck up the water even more–although the fool has been very quiet as of late. Too damn many spokesmen on Pacquiao’s team. Bottom line is that if either Pacquiao or Mayweather truly wanted to make the fight happen they would have already done it. But I agree with Happyboy: Three years later and NOW Pacquiao agrees to random testing? One can only ask why.Posted November 1, 2012 9:03 pm
The assumption that Marquez and Pac are going to fight razor thin again seems somewhat fallacious… Both guys KNOW this is it, if Marquez simply counters and throws scant shots he stands to lose, if Manny tries to think with a better technician and does not produce the volume he loses… The only wild card in my mind is Marquez not wanting to risk getting knocked out at 39 years old and fighting too cautious and complaining postfight… I’m betting against that we are going to get a conclusive ending, either Marquez is going to take Manny to school and lay some hurt on him in the process or Manny is going to beat JMM up and stop him…. I doubt a 4th rendition of bated breath when the scorecards are read…Posted November 1, 2012 8:45 pm
lol…Tumbo, I donb’t think you can get any more unbiased than direct quotes from Mayweather, which I gave you in my article link.
The problem here, Tumbo, is that you keep referring to me as a fight fan and nothing more. Dude, I’m a journalist, publicist, and radio commentator. I get invited to cover fights for several different media sources.
The sad thing is that you actually think you won an argument here? Dude, I get to cover any fight that I want on press row and interview the fighters that you watch on television and a moron like Tumbo actually thinks that he got the better of me?
Wow…you really taught me a lesson, Tumbo…taught me to keep from conversing with know nothing morons like yourself.
Thanks for the lesson.Posted November 1, 2012 8:42 pm
Te Tumbo, I am just glad they went back to the real forum style so I can read my peeps who I feel are better writers then 99% of the boxing media out there today. One thing is known for sure, if Pac gets beat by Marquez then all of this is moot. Byrd made excellent points and I agree with you that the body is the last place for Marquez to go in his quest for redemption. I cannot wait for this fight.Posted November 1, 2012 8:40 pm
PUBLIC, Herron definitely got a running-start before diving headfirst into a “tornado”. the irresistible “bait”? an independent albeit factual opinion. anyway, he has now been deposited into the laps of his “soruces” after being spun and buffeted about by common sense and the Documented Boxing Facts. despite all of his “research”, he could not produce a single credible and independent source for his “professional” opinion. nor one that refutes the sources that i’ve produced. anyway, interest in Mayweather v. Pacquiao* has dramatically waned in the past year, which explains why there are no new details or developments to report on. the situation remains the same: if Pacquiao* agrees to Mayweather’s harmless testing condition, the remaining details of their once eagerly-anticipated matchup are confirmed in short order. if not, Pacquiao’s* inexplicable refusal will remain the deal-breaker it’s been all along . . . (and not even a simple “thank you” from Herron?! what a Dik).Posted November 1, 2012 8:34 pm
yup, I was foolish enough to fall for it. Baited into a fire fight with Tumbo…lol!!Posted November 1, 2012 8:27 pm
It’s cool, public. I’m just used to receiving a lot more respect for the work that I’ve done within the industry. It’s impossible to argue with someone who doesn’t accept certain factors to be true.
Oh well…maybe one day I will be a good enough writer to earn the respect of Te Tumbo. Until then, I’ll have to settle for the respect of pretty much every fighter and promoter within the sport.Posted November 1, 2012 8:24 pm
“. . . look for me on press row when I cover the Donaire/Arce fight in Houston . . . I’ll tell Hauser that you liked his article. Look for me while you’re watching it on HBO”. what an elitist Dik(?!). precisely what you’d would expect from someone who doesn’t pay for their tix as long as they keep their heads firmly lodged in the ass-cracks of their “sources”. FYI, i’ve got connects with law firms and beer distributors all over Cali. i don’t need to shill for my tix and can attend just about any boxing event i’m willing to pay for. meanwhile, i’m no longer interested in reading any more of your opinion. without supporting evidence or corroborating testimony, it’s little more than entertainment gossip. you should ask Hauser how he does it instead of wasting your breath with my appreciation for his articles. after all, as a true fight-fan, i feel no compelling loyalty to fighters, trainers, writers, or promoters. just Boxing. Btw, since you apparently have difficulty keeping your promiseS to not engage me in any more of your name-dropping, ego-tripping pissing contests, I will show you how it’s done. prepare to be erased by the formidable power of my indifference. your desperate craving for my validation has just slipped away.Posted November 1, 2012 8:17 pm
Herron ran in to the Te Tumbo tornado. It’s happened to the best of us. Calm down. Carry on.Posted November 1, 2012 8:17 pm
It’s an article I wrote while covering the fight in Vegas.
Enjoy, Tumbo.Posted November 1, 2012 7:56 pm
Oh by the way, Tumbo…look for me on press row when I cover the Donaire/Arce fight in Houston…I’ll tell Hauser that you liked his article.
Look for me while you’re watching it on HBO.Posted November 1, 2012 7:49 pm
I agree with Chris as well, Ike…Chris is very astute and is going to make a great trainer.Posted November 1, 2012 7:47 pm
I agree w/ Byrd. These guys can chirp all day & night about going for a KO, but it’s just not happening. We’re going to see a close decision that could go either way. The 3rd installment of this rivalry was a little too tactical for my taste. Take away the big names and the fight bordered on boring. Hopefully Pacquiao-Marquez IV will feature sustained action, a knockdown (or two), or someone getting visably rocked/hurt that forces him to dig deep.Posted November 1, 2012 7:45 pm
Dude, your Thomas Hauser article proved my point. Did you read the entire article? And how old is that piece, Tumbo?
Floyd ultimately killed the deal earlier this year.
My goodness, what a waste of time…my son has more sense.Posted November 1, 2012 7:06 pm
Anyway, Tumbo…I have to prepare for a sports show that I am hosting. I have wasted enough time trading with you…and it is a waste of time because your arguments are built on misoonceptions and false truths.
Where do I start?
This is why I usually don’t take the time to trade with you…because quite honestly, we’re not equals.
You obviously don’t have any respect for the work that I do, even though every fighter that I interview always tells me that they love my work and look forward to my live, on-air interviews.
So I will not engage with you any further.Posted November 1, 2012 7:03 pm
Btw, Wtf happened to your precious “research”? that’s what you initially cited as your professional cred of irrefutability and now all you can cite is conversations with the two biggest Liars of this entire scandal? but a credible writer like Hauser is biased? what did i say about you “experts” not even being on the same page? even when dealing with the same FACTs(?!). however, in Hauser’s case, he cites credible news sources along with dates, times, and locations. when you manage to produce something of equal quality, i might pay attention. till then you’re nothing but a fan who thinks that sparring in a gym along with housewives and yuppies makes you an “expert” but as i just demonstrated, you’re miles away from that goal. that’ll teach you to never again engage a real fight-fan like myself with derisive and baseless comments.Posted November 1, 2012 7:02 pm
My goodness, Tumbo…did you read anything that I posted? If you read my passage, you would realize that it makes sense to anyone who is thinking clearly.
The problem with our conversations is that you’re not recognizing me as a valid media source…which of course I am. Like I stated in an earlier post…do you think I get these interviews with fighters, promoters, trainers, and managers magically?
Everyone else within the boxing industry recognizes my efforts as respectable and fair, why are you the only person who questions this?
Again, it goes back to lack of humility and ego.
You sound like a teenager who doesn’t want to listen to the reason and logic of his parents.Posted November 1, 2012 6:58 pm
“I don’t have to give you a source, I can just tell you from a conversation I had with both Freddie Roach and Bob Arum” and to maintain your access to these “objective”(?) sources, you must tow their line. i rest my case. i am NOT the one dealing in bias, opinion, or speculation. as a true fight-fan, i have the freedom to base my arguments on All Facts, All Day Long . . . NEXT?Posted November 1, 2012 6:48 pm
Very true on both accounts, Adrian.Posted November 1, 2012 6:36 pm
Tumbo, you’re citing a very pro-Mayweather source.
I don’t have to give you a source, I can just tell you from a conversation I had with both Freddie Roach and Bob Arum.
In September 2011, Top Rank agreed to any drug testing just to get the fight made. Obviously, this was true, because the negotiations advanced to the money stage.
Everyone and their mothers reported this…obviously, you remember Floyd calling Manny’s direct line in the Philippines?
Tell me something, why would he call Manny up to talk about money if Bob and company didn’t agree to drug testing teerms?
So what happened?
Floyd outbid himself and demanded a larger percentage of the purse…once again killing negotiations.
So you’re wrong. Floyd ultimately killed this fight. According to everyone involved in the negotiations back in 2010, including the mediator, with the exception of everyone in Team Mayweather, Floyd and Ellerbe were dead set on finding a reason why the fight shouldn’t be made.
According to everyone at Top Rank and the mediator, they’re convinced that Floyd merely wasted everyones’ time and money and never wanted the fight to be made. He merely wanted the public perception of a willingness without any real intent.
I would list my sources, but I don’t have to give you a link, because this is all based on conversations that I had personally with the parties that I listed above.Posted November 1, 2012 6:34 pm
“Go after JMM like he punched out your mother, and rain down thunder for 3 minutes..” that is what Marquez is preparing and hoping for. he is at his lethal and crunching best when an opponent steps into HIS office.Posted November 1, 2012 6:33 pm
Thank you, Swedish Boxing Fan!! Your encouragement means a lot!!
I just did a great interview with Abner Mares who is fighting on November 10th at the Staples Center against Anselmo Moreno who he admits is his toughest opponent to date.
I hope everyone enjoys the article which will be published tomorrow morning.
SBF, if there is anyone you would like me to interview or write about, please drop me a line at [email protected].
Thanks again for the kind words.Posted November 1, 2012 6:23 pm
Swedish Boxing Fan
Jospeh Herron – Hey its okey, you noticed it and thats great for an author becouse only by our own misses we can change them to the better :-)Not like that but I myselft have learned a lot from my misses. I know you can your boxing well and in overall you write good articles so it was nothing personal or angry at all, it was more written in a lighter sarcasm. I tottaly agree with how it once was here on eastsideboxing.com a few years back and I remember some notes written by fighters like Michael Moorer, Shannon Briggs or Hasim Rahman or Oliver McCall’s former trainer for example so that is something not common now. I miss those days when it was truly fun to go out here and read and comment articles. Keep up the good work man :-)Posted November 1, 2012 6:03 pm
All these dissertations and nebulous unproven insinuations that Pac was and is using PEDs are so baseles it is getting ridiculous and boring and mostly stupid. If the criminal Mayweather clan were so sure than Pac was and is using, why did they asked for a settlement for the case that Manny filed against them and agreed to state a public apology for what the criminal, cabal l did ??? Even a moron can safely conclude that the reason they settled is because their black as&%$es were going to lose in court and be exposed for the low-life liars that they are just like all the mindless Pac haters that marched to the tune of these criminals.Posted November 1, 2012 5:36 pm
btw chris byrd was a great boxer who would give trouble to any haveyweight of the past ,his technic was briliant and he had a huge heart never was scared and thats why he was so sucssesful even with his limited size for the haveyweight devision!Posted November 1, 2012 5:26 pm
keep in mind: the random and mutually-applied blood and urine testing that Mayweather is insisting be adopted is harmless unLESS a fighter has something to hide. that is simple common sense that doesn’t require any “expert” co-signers.Posted November 1, 2012 4:45 pm
HERRON, i’m willing to learn: submit the quote and published source that confirms Pacquiao* agreeing to unconditional and mutually-applied random blood and urine testing that was directly rejected by Floyd Mayweather. in fact, Me First: By Ben Thompson, Fighthype, July 7, 2011: [Mayweather] is obviously asking for the exact same type of tests that Victor Ortiz and Shane Mosley agreed too: RANDOM TESTING UP UNTIL THE WEIGH-IN . . . Michael Koncz: “Yeah, well we agreed to, in the past, random testing as long as when we get tested, he gets tested, up to 14 days. WE’RE NOT GOING TO TEST ON THE DAY OF THE FIGHT. I’m not going to sit here and tell you yes, we’ll agree to do tests that day or not, but what we’ve done in the past, we’ve agreed to give blood immediately after the fight but then the problem is THE COMMISSION TOLD US that they won’t do that because it’s not sterile in the dressing rooms. Will we give blood 5 days, 7 days before the fight? You know, that’s something I have to talk to Manny* about . . .” now, what research can you submit that directly refutes or describes a change in Team Pacquiao’s* position? meanwhile, the following link is an example of a thoroughly-researched article from a writer who isn’t on an ego-trip and doesn’t feel any need to win any popularity contests: http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/mayweather-pacquiao-peds-and-boxing what is clear form this article is that testing has ALways been the One-and-Only dealbreaker of a Mayweather v. Pacquiao* matchup. All Facts, All-Day-Long . . . live and learn Herron . . . Live-And-Learn . . . you should be thanking me for these lessons in journalistic integrity Orr simply stay in your lane and keep your mini-cooper out of the way of my lowriding 57 Chevy.Posted November 1, 2012 4:34 pm
I rest my case, Tumbo. You can’t even recognize a credible source when one is talking to you.
Do you think I magically produce these interviews with these fighters, managers, promoters, and trainers out of thin air? Would it make you feel better if I cited someone else’s interview or conversation?Posted November 1, 2012 4:03 pm
Don’t expect Pacquiao to be as cautious as last time… If he doesn’t attack hard at times he’ll suffer his 2nd straight defeat.. Meticulous plans can go out the window—but I’d have Pacquiao box through rounds 1 and 2 using lightning jabs, speed, angles and movement. Pepper and snipe the old man from range so he can’t get set to counterpunch.. If you can’t out speed an old geezer it’s too damned bad.. JMM will be expecting World War III in the 1st round—but I’d save that for the 3rd.. Smash Marquez around the ring with a savage 3-minute assault. Torrents of 15 to 20 punches so he can’t counter effectively. Go after JMM like he punched out your mother, and rain down thunder for 3 minutes.. I’d replicate the first 3 rounds for the 4th, 5th, and 6th—and every 3 rounds through the 12th.Posted November 1, 2012 3:50 pm
REM, that’s an excellent example. Dawson deserves a lot more credit than he receives for taking the risk, although it ultimately didn’t pan out for him, of moving down in weight and fighting the very best at 168 pounds.
Your right, the consistent criticism that these fighters receive from writers and fight fans ultimately affects their decision making and their willingness to step in the ring under less than favorable conditions.
Great post!!Posted November 1, 2012 3:09 pm
Joseph couldn’t agree more and i can be guilty of trying to “be right” myself but i never dismiss a good point even if it refutes my own. Imo a great example of the negativity was the Ward/Dawson fight. I dont think Dawson gets anywhere near the credit he deserves for making a superfight for the fans and his stock shouldn’t drop at all for losing to the great Andre Ward. But with the feedback Dawson recieved i dont blame fighters for not taking the risk to make more fights like that i don’t remember anyone crediting Dawson outside of myself.Posted November 1, 2012 2:59 pm
That’s your answer Blaze? Ignorance? Cool. Now go write your letter to santa claus.Posted November 1, 2012 2:45 pm
“. . . you see what you want to see and when someone observes the obvious, you get defensive”. sans a credible source, your “obvious observations” are obviously and only OPINION. “Your arrogance and lack of humility . . .” E-NUFF of your hissy-pissy fits. it’s obvious that you are desperate for respect you haven’t earned. ESB is a Fight-Fan’s website NOT an insiders club of pompous “experts” who rarely agree with each other, typically pick the losers in any given matchup, and are notoriously biased in favor of their favorite fighters and era. Btw, i don’t have to “research” Pacquiao’s* fear of random testing. i followed the situation and every subsequent development in real time. unless you can direct me to a credible and independent news source that reports Pacquiao* (NOT Arum) accepting random blood and urine testing, withOUT any compromising conditions, e.g., cut-off date, followed by a direct rejection from Floyd Mayweather, you only continue to embarrass yourself with your biased shilling and amateurish observations. NEWSFLASH: you really don’t know Boxing or fighters and i intend to prove it with fundamental logic and the Documented Boxing Facts . . . “En garde”, son.Posted November 1, 2012 2:42 pm
REM, I also think that too many boxing writers fall into the trap of thinking that negativity is a more intelligent way of portraying things. Quite the contrary.
Boxing is a great sport and needs to be portrayed that way. The fighters take enough punishment in the ring and really don’t need any more from teh fans and the writers.Posted November 1, 2012 2:22 pm
Thanks for the kind words, REM.
I think too many people on this forum are way too enamored with trying to be “right” instead of actually listening to what others have to contribute.
The ESB forum used to be great, with a lot of trainers and fighters contributing. But those days are long gone.
Thanks for reading, REM!!Posted November 1, 2012 2:19 pm
The funny thing about a lot of boxing fans is that they’re so enamored with always wanting to be right, that they ultimately forget to listen and learn. I remember when the forum on this site was really insightful with a lot of trainers and fighters visiting on a regular basis.
But I guess the pushier fight fans who insisted that they ultimately knew more ran them all off.
It’s a shame. The forum was originally supposed to be for sharing insight and experience…not to get into insults and pissing contests.
Oh well…thank you for the kind words, REM!!Posted November 1, 2012 2:13 pm
Joseph great article man pinpoint accurate analysis u would think you’d get more like that from the pros and so called experts but u just don’t.Posted November 1, 2012 1:54 pm
Blaze is at that stupid stuff again. Has Lance Armstrong not waken everyone up to the real problems facing professional sports??? Donaire is showing what it takes to be a man and step up. Even more so then Mayweather. Pac knows what people think and he doesn’t care because he has a bunch of fans that base their masculinity on his wins. If Pac agreed to tests then why not do it for this fight? any fight? do it for Easter gor goodness sake. Mayweather definitely aint looking out for the sport but his selfish reason align with what is right this time. Lance Armstrong has shown that to everyone, that wants to see it.Posted November 1, 2012 12:32 pm
I would watch this fight 10 times. Great tactical fight. Shows both of their strengths and raises the boxing IQ of te viewer. Pac fans just might know what boxing is all about if they see this fight 3 more times. lolPosted November 1, 2012 12:27 pm
Excellent breakdown. I agree totally.Posted November 1, 2012 12:19 pm
Anonymous – Good post and good question. Pac agreed to the testing and smaller purse, so where is Floyd? Who is he going to fight next and when? He seems to only want to fight once a year while Pac fights about every 6 months. Floyd wanted to wait 40 fights and 15 years into his career to ask for this test, and therefore Pac should have told him to shove it like Hopkins told Pascal. But like a gentleman he eventually agreed and now Floyd has disappeared.Posted November 1, 2012 12:04 pm
Anonymous – if Pedman is gonna agree to random test 3 yrs later then he can go shove it where the sun don’t shine.Posted November 1, 2012 11:55 am
Btw, anyone who scored the last fight between Marquez and Pacquiao* for Pacquiao* is severely biased or igorant of everything that makes the sport of boxing “sweet” and a fight “scientific”. unfortunately, a keyboard, computer, and 8th-grade writing skills has made everyone an “expert”. conversely, it makes them glaring targets for fight-fans who respect and actually Know the sport.Posted November 1, 2012 11:46 am
I agree, Swedish Boxing Fan. Chris’ accomplishments in the ring are very understated. i promise, the next article I write with “Rapid Fire” giving his special insight, I will list his accomplishments. He was a very underrated fighter. His masterful performance over David Tua is still one of my favorite modern day heavyweight performances. Absolutely brilliant stuff!!Posted November 1, 2012 11:40 am
pac agree random test— 60-40 —- where is floyd? oh, I saw him in beauty salon :) with Mad Scientist aka the beautician LOL!!!!!Posted November 1, 2012 8:47 am
i like this comment … thumbs up dude!!!… great boxer will be always the aggressive one.. true heart of a warrior… run like a chicken, hot olive oil is waiting for you!!! LOLPosted November 1, 2012 8:42 am
IMO, Pac needs to actually be a bit more careless when he fights JMM. Pac can’t box as well as JMM so it’s in his best interest to make it more of a fight or a controlled brawl. Each fight JMM gets Pac to box him more and more. If you look at the compubox stats, each fight JMM gets Pac to throw less and less punches and as a result there is less chance for JMM to get dropped. And as you see JMM gets droopped less in each fight until the last fight he didn’t hit the canvas once. Pac could knock JMM out easily if he made sure to have a high punch output and force JMM into exchanges, but he can’t let JMM trick him into a boxing match as seems to be happening more in each fight. He’s got to come at JMM and he has to come at him hard.Posted November 1, 2012 8:24 am
Swedish Boxing Fan
I “like” how the recent articles with Chris Byrd (45-5-1 KO’s 22) included is written. I mean they only credit him for his IBF world title reign and just in that short terme. Not that Chris Byrd is an 1992 Olympic silver medalist and former 2-time world heavyweight title champion (WBO =2000 & IBF = 2002-2006) and the 2nd southpaw heavyweight to become world champion etc. Annyway, Chris Byrd was a great and skilled boxer in the ring who could out-manouver the bigger and stronger men in the league. Byrd is also a great man and an fine boxing expert so listening to him is interesting. Go Byrd!!!Posted November 1, 2012 7:31 am
lol…oh my goodness, te tumbo. Wow, you really believe that don’t you? lol, you really don’t see it, do you? Wow. Do some research on the subject.Posted November 1, 2012 6:07 am
“. . . one of those guys who insist that the drug issue is the only reason why the Floyd/Pac fight wasn’t made?” HERRON, don’t mince words with me and never mind the “only reason” b.s. the drug issue is Thee one and only deal-breaker in the equation. don’t tell me you’re one of those gullible fans whose been duped by Arum’s various promotional stunts and rhetorical decoys? otherwise, once Pacquiao* ceases with his inexplicable objection to random blood and urine testing, there won’t be a single other reason that will stop the fight from happening. Not-A-1.Posted November 1, 2012 3:50 am
I wasn’t impressed with part # 3… However, I still gave it to Pacman… Has boxing become so bad that we need to hype a very ho-hum part # 4 in 2012???? C’mon, J.M.M. is almost age 40 for cryin’ out loud…….. Cheers……Posted November 1, 2012 1:41 am
the pressure is on Pacquiao* to covincingly defeat Marquez whose a 39-year-old featherweight fighting at welter. in fact, Pacquiao* was supposed to do just that in their last fight only to sputter and stall in dissapointment and desperation. i haven’t seen anybody pray that hard outside a Catholic pilgrimage in Mexico(?!). This-Time, Pacquiao’s* relative youth will be his biggest and only advantage. otherwise, Marquez is accustomed to defending against featherweight handspeed and keenly aware of Pacquiao’s* defensive flaws. more importantly, Marquez has become aware of his own. no more reckless lunging and swinging wide. instead he’s keeping it tight and inside. in his office. where he simply outpunches and manhandles Pacquiao*. IF Manny* dares go fo the KO, Marquez will be waiting.Posted November 1, 2012 1:17 am
You know what they say…guilty dog barks the loudest!!Posted November 1, 2012 12:14 am
Pacquiao has always been accused of taking PED,but why are the USA fighters getting busted,it is them probably,when you look back its those fighters,its probably normal to do it in the gyms.Posted October 31, 2012 11:13 pm
“if there is any fighter (or athlete in any sport) whose earned the benefit of the doubt regarding a PED-free competitive profile, it’s Floyd “The Natural” Mayweather.” Wowweee! Four whole random tests in his entire boxing career and that’s good enough for you? Whatever……Posted October 31, 2012 10:58 pm
“no fighter should have the right to reject such a request without an official and scientific explanation.” LOL! Until such a test is required, “No” works for me. It should work for you too.Posted October 31, 2012 10:55 pm
A fair comment by Rapid Fire. In other word JMM will do the same tactic of avoiding an encounter & will fight defensively. But if JMM really wants to win vs Pacquiao, he needs to take the risk & not just the hope of getting the judges favor. JMM must engage more to show that he is a better fighter & not just a better defensive fighter. This is boxing & not dancing with star kind of show. If your opponent is throwing hard punches, you’ve got to throw more & go for a kill. Avoiding an encounter to me is not a winning style unless you drop your opponent. Crying Baby is no place in this sport.Posted October 31, 2012 10:04 pm
donaire its a fraud
look u dog eater jose herron don try to change ur name you cat eater you and brazilian can go and suck my balls and leave the dogs and cats alone *****Posted October 31, 2012 9:55 pm
Hey, Rigo…next time print your post in English.
Oh I’m sorry, maybe dumb Joseph just can’t comprehend what you’re writing.Posted October 31, 2012 9:49 pm
ringodeaxus beats donaire
brazilian get hell out of here this is boxing not mma and take that dumb of joshep with you r1Posted October 31, 2012 9:45 pm
Tumbo, are still one of those guys who insist that the drug issue is the only reason why the Floyd/Pac fight wasn’t made?Posted October 31, 2012 9:12 pm
I couldn’t agree more, Brazilian. I had Pac winning every fight against Marquez.Posted October 31, 2012 9:10 pm
the science of strength and conditioning is easily used to improve peformance and or alter physiques for most boxers who compete at the lighter weights and dont ballon up in weight between bouts ..tis very easy for them with the right eating regime and training program to build muscle (alter physique) whether or not that “extra physique” equates to much more power is up for debate the longer the weight carried the more “carry over” putting on weight both fat and muscle is easy and as much as %80 of your diet or eating habits losing weight is even more so and can be much more “scientific” in its nature ALL OF THE ABOVE IS EASILY DONE DRUG FREE ……..Posted October 31, 2012 8:58 pm
if there is any fighter (or athlete in any sport) whose earned the benefit of the doubt regarding a PED-free competitive profile, it’s Floyd “The Natural” Mayweather. he has unilaterally leveraged his P4P status into random blood and urine testing for his last four bouts. accordingly, the “verdict” on Mayweather is “Proven Innocent with no evidence of guilt”. even now, i only consider Pacquiao* suspect for rejecting a harmless drug-test for the opportunity to face his primary P4P rival and collect an unprecedented multi-million dollar payday, which has actually decreased by a couple 10 millions due to Pacquiao’s* suspect refusal to comply with a harmless drug test . . . that is, IF he’s got nothing to hide.Posted October 31, 2012 8:09 pm
Brazilian Boxing Fan. To Mr. Joseph Herron
My opinion. Pacquiao beat Marquez three times already.Posted October 31, 2012 8:06 pm
Honestly, the verdict should be out on every fighter. I’m sure “the clear” is ramapant among all athletes in professional sports…even the ones who are pointing the finger.Posted October 31, 2012 7:33 pm
The Mad Scientist
Yes, Marquez did look more muscled bound in his 3rd fight against Pacquiao compare to what Juan look like when he moved up in weight to fight Floyd..very suspicious but he was willing to take mutual applied testing to prove he’s a clean fighter unlike team Pac who the jury is still out on..Posted October 31, 2012 7:12 pm
Ok, Mayweather we will have him take the test.Posted October 31, 2012 6:33 pm
when i got a look at Marquez a week before his last matchup v. Pacquiao*, i was impressed but also a bit wary. Marquez had become a full size larger(?!) if not a full-fledged 147lbr. i figured it was karma for Pacquiao* and if he didn’t like it, he could always demand improved testing. Team Pacquiao* actually did express some wariness but were very careful not to adopt the very same position that they’ve been rejecting to sabotage a P4P showdown v. Floyd. moreover, when questioned by the press about his bigger physique Marquez had the perfect response/challenge: “I will take any test, any time. I have nothing to hide”, which quickly put a bullet in the head of any potential scandal regarding his ring-integrity. my bottomline remains the same: if neither fighter requests improved testing, no harm-no foul, but no fighter should have the right to reject such a request without an official and scientific explanation. Pacquiao* has never provided that and IF Marquez has adopted the same welterweight “diet”(?), it’s only coming around to Pacquiao*.Posted October 31, 2012 6:24 pm
Margarito hit Pac on his ribs with a shot that would have put a lesser fighter down and Pac took it in stride. Pac trains his body by allowing his team to hit his middle with sticks. If Marquez fights Pac the same way he fought him the last three fights, he is sure to lose again. Pac’s game plan will the same – keep on moving forward and land his power shots to end the fight. Marquez’s dilemma concerning his fight plan is that he is fully aware of Manny’s power and the effects that power had on him (Marquez) in the last three fights – four knockdowns. My take in this fight is that initially, Marquez wiil fight his usual way by counter-punching and back-pedaling and see how Pac reacts. Between rounds, Nacho wiil evaluate every round and will decide whether the game plan is working. If both Nacho and Marquez see that they cannot win on points, both will decide to go for broke and engage Pac and Manny will KO Marquez. It will be a great fight !!Posted October 31, 2012 6:03 pm
Te tumbo, you are right at that.Posted October 31, 2012 5:14 pm
This fight will let us know who still phisically fit, after so many wars. Remember Marquez is going towards 40 years old, 61 fights. All wars. Pacquiao is 33 same amount of fights. Same wars. I think Pacquiao has chance to do the impossible, maybe a knockout this time.Posted October 31, 2012 5:11 pm
Vitor El Valedor, ViViVi,Viii!!!
Byrd is very, very precise on his statements and he ksab. Marquez being the older fighter does whatever it takes to improve while Manny hardly ever changes. Juan really knows how to get Manny out his comfort zone. Juan’s footwork was more than exceptional and being in his twilight yrs even more astounding. Manny made a huge mistake should of rematched Bradley, but $$$-wise Manny needs Marquez as much as Marquez needs Manny. We’re getting another gem of a fight I,ain’t complaining, but corrupt judges are going to feck things up again just watch. Great 2 see 2 legends still at the top pushing each other to the limit. They always brought out the best of each other and worth every cent of the ppv. Byrd has the making of a great trainer, commentator, and representative of boxing the guy is class.Posted October 31, 2012 4:56 pm
the one thing that I hope Marquez fine-tunes in his last fight-plan is to target Pacquiao’s* body more. Manny* becomes visibly agitated and disconcerted by scoring shots to his body. to the point where he anxiously motions to the ref for support. i’ve noticed this in several of Pacquiao’s* bouts and have wondered why opponents don’t apply more hot sauce to Manny’s ribs. IMO, this single alteration of Marquez’s fight-plan would become a game-changer.Posted October 31, 2012 4:24 pm