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It’s Me, Ernie

Very well said SREDMOND.

Posted November 14, 2012 1:32 pm 


SREDMOND

There is ALWAYS an excuse and there ALWAYS will be, Wlad was drugged, he had too much vaseline (Steward claimed Hearns got drilled by Hagler because of a prefight leg massage) I saw too many right hands to the skull…. Wlad was too young, Steward was not in his corner, King poisoned him… He had Type 2 diabetes that vanished postfight… Lewis cheated Vitali, the Dr should have let him continue, the fight should have been called as a 6 rounder to accomodate Vitalis injuries… blah, blah, blah…. The Klits have booked over 100 victories, growup and let their losses stand every other fighter has had to.

Posted November 14, 2012 8:19 am 


AD

First up, I think Wlad has become an awesome heavyweight, I loved what I saw vs Wach irrespective of Wahcs speed or skills. I rate Wlad ahead of Vitali and as an ATG, and I applaud him being able to turn his career around after having such a difficult period, but all this drugged/vaseline bo11ocks is laughable. Tell what what he was drugged with that didn`t take effect till round 4, then didn`t show up in blood tests not that much further later. And make it more believeable than a very muscled guy punching himself out (a guy we know has stamina issuers and who holds for quite a lot of his fights – and who even now had to dial it down after a big 8th round effort vs Wach).

Posted November 14, 2012 6:00 am 


It’s me, Ernie

LMAO once again!! Too much vaseline was the reason Brewster pounded Klit senseless. That’s some good comedy right there.

Posted November 13, 2012 11:17 am 


Anonymous

Tark what are you talking about waldimir landing uppercut and hook to
the body. You’re blind, He only trow straight punches.

Posted November 13, 2012 9:07 am 


Daly jr

Reem, perhaps you should go on youtube and watch Vitali vs chisora again, because you will see vitali using both hands all through the fight. He may or may not have had an injury, but he DID use both hands

Posted November 13, 2012 7:13 am 


christov

Why does every article about Klits sink into some people trying to continually defend or make excuses for KBros losses? Lennox never made silly excuses for a loss or poor performance.Do you think Lennox or any other heavyweight are always 100% for a fight? When Lewis got knocked out by Rahman in SA, it was obvious Lewis was not acclimatised to the thinner air as he was puffing from the 2nd round.All because he was on set filming and didn’t put the fight as his no1 priority, and he paid for that mistake.But when interviewed after regaining his senses, he was asked if coming late to SA hurt him, and was he not 100%. Some fighters would have said yes, that’s why I lost, excuses, excuses, but Lewis denied that was the issue and gave credit to Rahman for catching him with a great shot.For all you Kbros loss defenders,whining about Vitali’s “injuries” like in the Byrd fight, go take a look at Danny Williams vs Mark Potter to see how to deal with a REAL,VISIBLE injury.

Posted November 13, 2012 5:08 am 


TARK

Goosey….., “Why did the Klitschko’s sack Joe Souza and say that the amount of vaseline Souza used had trapped too much body heat in the fighter?” …. The K Bros weren’t happy with the way Souza handled the deep eyelid cuts in the Lewis fight.. The video record showed Souza roughly rubbing a towel over the cuts and a large piece of flesh being pulled off from the lid.. However, plasic surgery healed the eye very well and Souza was tight friends with Steward.. But after the vaseline incident they just had enough of Souza.. The K’s also blame themselves here because it’s long been known that a lot of vaseline can lead to heat retention and fatigue in boxers—and they weren’t alert enough about that to stop him. Possibly because they expected to make short work of Lamon B.

Posted November 12, 2012 8:26 pm 


Anonymous

I forgot lewis.

Posted November 12, 2012 4:26 pm 


Anonymous

Kros are good but would have get beat by holmes, young foreman, young tyson, and ali from 60′s

Posted November 12, 2012 4:25 pm 


TARK

Sred says.., “ONE sport NOT to do for free it would be the Sweet Science where brain and body are sacrficed for money and glory” …. In fact, MOST boxers fight for free—just as most athletes in any sport play for free.. The vast majority of all boxers are in the sport for love not money, and that is the real meaning of the word amateur … A small percentage of boxers will ever turn professional—and that’s when a passionate pursuit becomes a trade and career because you’re very good at it.. Some people turn to boxing because there’s money in it, but they should also love it.. I’ve heard a lot of professional boxers say “I hate this sport.” … Those folks are in the wrong business, unless they’re just saying that because they’re having a bad hair day—like after they knocked somebody out.. Not always that joyous when you see somebody’s wife or kids crying.

Posted November 12, 2012 4:18 pm 


BIG FOOT

Right, it was for the money.Both for him and King et al., screw the glory. A fight slapped together almost at the spurt of the moment and a win on a golden platter for Lewis. The only tko McCall has ever had but not because of LL’s ability.

Posted November 12, 2012 2:05 pm 


SREDMOND

Wow thats a revolutionary concept, its called prize fighting because guys fight for a prize…This is not Rome where guys were thrown in the Coliseum in order to fight to live for another day…. Absent finance most guys would NOT be boxers, if there is ONE sport NOT to do for free it would be the Sweet Science where brain and body are sacrficed for money and glory…. Thats the game

Posted November 12, 2012 12:20 pm 


BIG FOOT

Why? get off it Redmond, money as usual is the reason.

Posted November 12, 2012 11:48 am 


SREDMOND

Everyone has an excuse but if you get in that ring and fight then who’s fault is that?? Buster Douglas pulled off the biggest upset in boxing history on the heels of his mother dying, Floyd Mayweather was going to jail days after his fight with Cotto and he trained and won a clear victory over a HOF opponent..If McCall wants to smoke crack in between fights or he was mentally out of the game whos fault is that??? When Rahman capped Lewis people said “Lennox was distracted” “he was filming a movie” I didn’t and I don’t he got KNOCKED OUT and it was up to him to make it right…

Posted November 12, 2012 11:43 am 


BIG FOOT

Because McCall was in no condition to be in the ring with anybody, he was a sick man.
It was a gift for Lewis and a con by the promoters. Read what they say about it on box rec. How do you get hauled off to jail in December then put in rehab for drugs and then have a heavyweight title fight in February?

Posted November 12, 2012 11:31 am 


SREDMOND

Adrian for the record McCall and Rahman were guys that were NOT supposed to KO Lewis and you don’t see me trying to laud them as fighters beyond what they are to make Lennox look good on the nights he got stopped do you??? To Lewis credit he came back and set the record straight which Klits did not do with 2 of the 3 men who stopped him…

Posted November 12, 2012 11:29 am 


SREDMOND

How the hell was McCall gonna get an NC?? Because he started crying?? his win over Lewis was NOT even as impressive as Rahmans who got a clear KO without the ref deciding that Lewis could not continue when he was on his feet at the count of 6 I believe… Should we give Duran an NC because he said “No Mas” or Vitali or Victor Ortiz because he “Quit” against Lopez and Maidana…. Where are all the REAL men with combat sports these days, alot of excuse makers and apologists are crawling out of the sewar…

Posted November 12, 2012 11:19 am 


SREDMOND

Adrian, YES on a relatvie basis Sanders and Brewster were nobodies…. Both guys were underdogs… Sanders was a LATE replacement that is why the Upset was the biggest of the year Brewster was a good HW but not someone expected to be able to lay Klits out like that… After that loss Vitali went on record as having told Wlad to retire… This was NOT Hearns getting stopped by Hagler and Leonard these guys were supposed to lose to Klitschko and neither man went on to bigger glory after stopping him…. I know this contrasts starkly with the campaign to elevate all Klit opponents beyond their actual station but a guy like Sanders was a 3rd tier HW who had a first tier MOMENT…Beyond that he was getting stopped by Nate Tubbs and Rahman, while the bulk of his wins were over fodder in South Africa in between rounds of Golf….

Posted November 12, 2012 11:16 am 


BIG FOOT

Lewis got even with Rahman but the McCall rematch should have been a NC, what a farce. The only tko loss on McCall’s record because he was right out of jail and rehab
barely aware of where he was. I wonder if Lewis ever really could have beaten Oliver.
I think Don Kink it was that should have been fined, not McCall.

Posted November 12, 2012 11:09 am 


adrian

sredmond you said”Wlad Klits was TKOed more than ANY prime HW Champion I can think of and that will always be part of his legacy 3 TKO’s by nobodies!!! “really ?? you call brewster and sanders a nobody?? i really dont understand you when you try so hard to find something that you can bash the klitchkos?because what you just said here it is not an opinion it is just a hatered statment against wlad with a very weak and really sad argument…. is just like saying lewis legacy is getting ko`d by a nobody like rahman and mcall….

Posted November 12, 2012 10:13 am 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

Some seriously high quality postings by Gonzo in this thread guys. Well worth giving them a good read even if I say so myself.

Posted November 12, 2012 10:11 am 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

So Wlad just gassed against Brewster in their first fight, eh? lol. He wasn’t ill or he hadn’t been drugged, right? OK, then. lol. He looked like a 6’6 heroin addict/AIDS victim going though a serious episode of cold turkey for God’s sake. Like I said, just take a look at his sallow complexion and that vacant sickly look in his eyes if you doubt there was something serious wrong with him. I’ve seen fighters gas countless times but the only time I’ve ever seen that deathly look in someone’s eyes is when they’re either as high as a kite or very ill. Now I’m not suggesting he was definitely drugged for that fight. However, he certainly bore all the hallmarks of someone who was either drugged or very sick.

Posted November 12, 2012 10:06 am 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

I very much doubt Peter was drugged for the Vitali fight lol. He was, however, thoroughly intimidated by the cold-blooded 6’7 Slavic behemoth in the opposite corner. That fight was lost at the pre-fight press conference when Vitali refused to give Peter his belt back after they’d been posing for the cameras with it. Peter kept asking him to let it go, that it didn’t belong to him, but Vitali was in full bully mode and he just smiled at him menacingly and refused to give ground. Eventually Peter had but no choice than to try and force the issue and he violently ripped the belt from Vitali’s grasp, but Vitali just kept glaring at him with Manson eyes and that devilish smirk on his lips. Peter was very quick to break eye contact after that and I knew right away that the fight was as good as in the bank for Vitali.

Posted November 12, 2012 9:55 am 


Oscar

I can’t understand the guys who are saying Wach will do this and that based on him being able to take a beating from a Klitschko and stay on his feet the whole 36 minutes. By that same standard Del boy Chisora will go on to become a world champion too, right??

Posted November 12, 2012 9:10 am 


SREDMOND

The desire for perfection amongst the Klitschko faithful is a hallmark of their insecurity…Trying to sell 15 conspiracies and excuses for their lowlight moments of which there have only been a few… Wlad beat 59 men clearly YET we have to attempt to discredit the 3 men who beat him and conjure up theories that cannot be proven, Klits had Steward and Sdunek in his corner not Panama Lewis…Vitali got TKOed and he quit NEITHER the result of a shady defferential referee…5 losses vs over 100 wins and you creeps are STILL trying to get those 5 L’s in the “W” column, thankfully thats not going to happen… The only HW fighter to retire undefeated was Rocky Marciano… And Wlad despite his success after Brewster, STILL has absorbed more TKO losses than Foreman, Ali, Holmes and Marciano and all of his were in the prime of a mans life, I KNOW you guys want to discuss him in the context of this streak well thats 16 fights he has 60 total!!

Posted November 12, 2012 9:06 am 


SREDMOND

Wlad Klitschko has been intermittently drugged throught his career and the drug of choice is called LEATHER…Duriung the first 45 fights of his career he was NOT even that important of a fighter sporting nothing more than the WBO belt…But of course somehow Ross Purritys people gave him something that kicked in LATE in the fight, THEN Corrie Sanders people gave him something that kicked in EARLY, the Lamon Brewsters people gave him something that kicked in middway…!!!! Then Sam Peters people gave him something so he would go down 3 times…!!! The reality is that Wlad has NEVER lost and he has never really even been on the canvas UNLESS you look on the banned list and realize that punches to the face are NOT prohibited…!!! AWWWW Damn reality sucks!!!! Wlad Klits was TKOed more than ANY prime HW Champion I can think of and that will always be part of his legacy 3 TKO’s by nobodies!!! :)

Posted November 12, 2012 8:57 am 


CANUCK

I wonder if Oliver McCall was drugged a tiny bit when he fought LL the second time?
Did anyone ever investigate that?….DUH!

Posted November 12, 2012 6:35 am 


huckster

Better yet. Wach was on roids that how he developed that Iron chin that Wlad could not dent. That is good science. Right out of the K-bros’ dissertation.

Posted November 12, 2012 6:21 am 


huckster

Maybe Brewster was drugged when he got beat down in the second fight. The thought has more room for “good” speculation.

Posted November 12, 2012 6:19 am 


Adrian

Curtely– that’s a very objective view on the Brewster vs wlad fight buddy and you are exactly right!
Thank you

Posted November 12, 2012 5:33 am 


curtley

This speculation does one thing and that is takes credit away from one of the most likeable HW’s in recent years in Lamont. In my eyes Wlad was dominating Brewster who simply sucked it up like few others and caused Wlad to fold. If Wlad was drugged he did pretty well in battering Brewster up until the end, also didn’t the same thing happen in the Purity fight? The way I see it is Wlad is a massive supreme HW who due to muscle mass can always suffer from burn out, its just that now he is smart enough to pace himself better, the loss was a clean one which was brutally avenged which in my eyes enhances Wlads legacy as it was avenged so why try and find excuses?

Posted November 12, 2012 4:57 am 


Was Sam Peter druged?

Well to everyone who thinks Wlad was drugged against Brewster what about all the rumours that Peter was durgged b4 he fought Vitali? Lots of people inside of boxing and politics in Africa were convinced of it afterwards, and if you watch the footage of Peter training for the fight it seems weird that he would start so unbelievable slowly in the 1st round and pretty much stay that way the whole night. I mean it was the only time in his career that the big African never tryed to throw ne punches and then jus quit for no reason. He hadnt even gone down! thoughts??

Posted November 12, 2012 3:47 am 


Adrian

I meant …if wlad and Brewster* fought not wlad and klitchko ..lol

Posted November 12, 2012 2:38 am 


Adrian

I don’t know how wlad felt the next day, it’s possible there was a foul play but we don’t know that ….
But what I also think is that its not right at all not to give credit to Brewster who took all that beating and still managed to attack him and finish the job drugged or not … Let’s be honest here folks. But one thing I do know is that if wlad and klitchko fought 100 times wlad would beat him 100 times because wlad is and was much better than Brewster and would never repeat the same mistake!

Posted November 12, 2012 2:27 am 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

I’ve seen plenty of drug addicts with that exact same expression in their eyes though.

Posted November 12, 2012 2:27 am 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

Lol @ people trying to make out there was nothing wrong with Wlad in the first Brewster fight. He was clearly either ill or drugged. You only have to look at the sickly, vacant look in his eyes for Christ’s sake. I’ve been involved in this sport for decades, boxing at the highest level both as an amateur and a pro, and I’ve never seen that look in anyone’s eyes before. Brewster even said Wlad was breathing very heavily as early as the first or second round. I’ve never been one of these gullible goons who laps up conspiracy stories and all that malarkey, but it was plain to see there was something seriously not right with him just going by his sallow complexion and his body language. He looked like a vampire had sucked all the blood out of him. He could barely stand up of his own volition. A strong breeze would’ve blown him over in that state. PS. Where are my other posts?

Posted November 12, 2012 2:24 am 


BEARS

Yep. That complete and utter slime bag don king was involved. That should prety much leave no doubts in anyones mind if wondering if king would do something like that

Posted November 12, 2012 2:19 am 


TARK

Wladimir wasn’t breathing that hard vs Brewster… I know what it’s like when you over exert yourself over a short period of time having been a boxer myself.. You come back quickly.. You’re not sick or dragged out the next day, and you don’t lose your speech for many hours like Wladimir did.. I’ve never been stopped, but I have exhausted myself trying to punch a tough guy out and you just take a break like Wladimir did vs Wach.. He put in a high work rate the other night and could have gone even harder, but he wanted a margin of safety so he eased up to maintain his energy level by slowing the pace for a round.

Posted November 12, 2012 2:16 am 


BEARS

It was also a don king fight wasn’t it? With lamon? The klitschko documentary goes into it in detail. I think they discuss what he dr’s or ringside dr said. It wasn’t normal. I will watch it again. I forgot the details of what they said.

Posted November 12, 2012 2:15 am 


TARK

Foreman was OK after the fight… If you punch yourself out you’re OK in a hurry… Embarrassed but OK.. Wladimir was breathing hard vs Brewster.. He can maintain a pretty hard pace for 12 rounds.. He wasn’t getting a massive amount of pressure.. Suddenly he just fell apart.. Not only exhausted but extremely weak, and stayed that way for hours … HIs team feels he was drugged and I tend to think so.. It happens.. All kinds of cheating happens in Boxing … However these fights were before he teamed up with Steward, and he’s improved 400% in the last 9 years.

Posted November 12, 2012 2:01 am 


Adrian

I am not a klitchko hater actualy both of them are my favorite fighters ….
It’s funny how Forman was claiming he was druged against Ali and itwas a very similar ending to klitchko against Brewster , Forman going all out to ko Ali for 6 rounds and than was finished easy when he failed to do so ….

Posted November 12, 2012 1:34 am 


Decker

TARK, the K bro haters never give them one single benefit of the doubt in any win or loss. Good comparison in Wlads loss to Sanders vs Brew. Sanders got to Wlad early and if Sanders could do anything it was finish off a hurt opponent.

Wlad beat Brew from pillar to post in BOTH fights… what happened to Wlad in their first fight was VERY strange.

Posted November 12, 2012 1:26 am 


Adrian

Tark- In klitchko vs Brewster 1 fight I remember saying to myself “god this guy can take a lot of punishment and wladimir is trying way to much to finish him” and what happened in that fight is wladimir got exhausted and couldn’t even throw punches anymore on top that Brewster firing on him made him look like that! As a fmr. Boxer I know when you don’t pace yourself and go all out you muscles get stiff very fast no matter how prepared you are , wlad was totally spent against brewster that night trying to finish him that’s all there is !

Posted November 12, 2012 1:24 am 


TARK

I tend to believe the drug story… Wladimir didn’t look right.. He looked like somebody who had been drugged trying to drag himself around.and falling all over the place.. A reaction from a KO blow is, they keep you down for a while if it was severe. They check your eyes, and eye movement, have you touch your nose and answer questions, and then you’re generally fine.. You’re not so dog tired you can barely move the next day and can’t speak for hours … Wladimir actually takes a punch well.. He ran out of gas in the 11th in one fight and they pulled him out.. He wasn’t knocked out.. He was getting clobbered by Sanders, the referee stopped it, and he was fine a minute later.. It wasn’t a punch from Brewster, but his body suddenly became completely exhuasted and he couldn’t move.

Posted November 12, 2012 1:12 am 


Adrian

Tark–Krasniqi after Brewster was totally shot , he wasnt the same anymore he lost his confidence and he was old … Because after the loss with Brewster he was afraid to exchange shots even with Brian
Minto and finally when he did he stoped him in the round 12 … Krasniqi ko Whitaker before Brewster fight when Whitaker was really considered top ten and was avoided by a lot haveys at that time!

Posted November 12, 2012 1:07 am 


Adrian

Tark–about mavrovic, I know him personally ,and I can tell you something about him, he was a really really good technician and he was a he’ll of the counter puncher but he simply couldnt do more against Lewis who was bigger and stronger than him, but Lewis win against mavrovic I don’t count as a win against a bum… Mavrovic I bet could of handle most of the small heavyweights the likes of Byrd haye chambers etc they wouldrealy be in trouble if they fought him , too bad he didn’t continue his carrier after Lewis loss!

Posted November 12, 2012 1:01 am 


TARK

Adrian….. Krasniqi was a nobody from nowhere. Dimitrenko clobbered him easily.. He was no good regardless of any amateur victories he had.. Brewster didn’t last long because he just couldn’t defend himself.. After 10 years with Steward, Wladimir has all around skills that few ever matched.

Posted November 12, 2012 12:58 am 


Adrian

Tark — also Brewster was really beaten by Krasniqi pretty bad right after the golota fight but Brewster managed to tag Krasniqi with a nasty left hook in the 8thround so brewster best weapon was his durability and his hart he never gave up that’s why he managed to get a win against klitchko and Krasniqi who btw people font know that Krasniqi was the one who beat wlad klitchko ,Brewster , chagaev and solis in amateurs

Posted November 12, 2012 12:50 am 


BEARS

yeah even steward said something wasnt right about what happened.

Posted November 12, 2012 12:45 am 


Adrian

Yeah just as valuev was “slow” but got over 45 wins against some pretty good quality opponent and managed to become champion…. I will never forget when valuev fought Barrett and couldn’t believe valuev managed to catch a small guy like that as slow as he was and almost took his head off , styles makes fights gentlemen !

Posted November 12, 2012 12:43 am 


TARK

Brewster could clobber an inept clown like Golota very quickly… He had a big left hook but was very poor defensively.. He almost lost to Kali Meehan who Rahman had no problems flattening.. He got beaten by Liakhovich in Sergie’s only big win.. Lamon was losing every round by wide margins to Wladimir. Brewster got knocked down, and took a terrific beating.. Then something happened to Wladimir … He became completely exhausted immediately and couldn’t shake the tiredness for many, many hours.. Wladimir was very sick for a day. He couldn’t speak for many hours.. It didn’t seem like it was something that was the result of a blow or blows, becaue when Sanders clobbered him he went down 4 times but was OK very soon after the fight was stopped.. With Brewster it was like having a heart attack or stroke … One minute you’re fine; the next minute you collapse and don’t come back for a while.. His team feels he was drugged.. I don’t know.

Posted November 12, 2012 12:34 am 


KL

Decker……..don’t worry Wach ain’t gonna beat up any good prospect especially not Price.
Wach is far too slow to compete with the best of the rest of the prospects.

Posted November 12, 2012 12:03 am 


Decker

I’m going to really LOL if Wach beats some up and comer like Price… and I like Price, just using him as an example.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:57 pm 


KL

“Weird gassing”………..funny I saw no such gassing BEFORE he gets tagged……..nor did the ring side doctor.
Wlad simply got tagged by Brewster who as you inferred had a good chin that although decked could get up off the canvas and get some good shots in.
This is where I differ from Shredmond…….. I think Brewster was pretty good as a heavy, prior to his detached retina incident fight with Liakhovich
Nothing wrong with getting tagged by big shots from Brewster.
That night I firmly believe Brewster won fair and square……..and it’s a shame people won’t give credit where credits is due……but instead insist on seeing conspiracies like the moon landing.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:57 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn.

Where’s my post regarding the Lewis-Mavrovic fight, Mr Mod. It was outstanding even if I say so myself. I think it’s about time you got up for work you lazy git, unless that is you’ve been on another one of your 24 hour watching scat-porn and snorting half a kilo of coke benders again? If that’s the case, sleep it off bro. Trust me I’ve been there many times and I know exactly how rough you’re feeling right now.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:49 pm 


KL

meh…….if it was 33/1 on before the match…….then I’d hate to think of the odds any rematch with Wach might be………..perhaps 50/1 on?

Posted November 11, 2012 11:47 pm 


BEARS

To be fair brewster took the worst of thebeating in wlad vs brewster one. Brew had never been knocked down wlad pummeled his ass and dropped him twice. Wlad merely picked up where he left off in fight 2 before he had the weird gassing brewster just can’t hold a candle to wlad but I like brewster personally always have. Hey redmond I got some good german killbossa since you like white guys so much

Posted November 11, 2012 11:46 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn.

Goosey.. Thanks, I agree.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:40 pm 


KL

Errr Aurelio Brewster had come back after eye surgery, and to be fair to Brewster he was in no shape to come back in the ring at all………If you watched his first come back fight just before his rematch with Wlad it would have been obvious that this was the case.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:38 pm 


Decker

KL, if you read the entire recent exchange I had w/Sred, it wasn’t about Wlad-Brew I or II. Some fights are stranger than others. To me Wlad-Brew I was one of them.

More than a few decisions are odd too. That’s the way boxing has been… forever.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:29 pm 


Aurelio

Nothing weird about Wlad beating the s*** out of Brewster in the rematch and blinding him in one eye. But let’s all talk about the first fight instead.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:25 pm 


Aurelio

REDMOND spending his Sunday slinging the bulls*** hard and heavy, I see, and getting torn a new a-hole by multiple posters. What a desperate loser this clown is.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:24 pm 


KL

Decker nothing weird about Wlad’s Brewster loss at all………it happens in boxing………..one guys on top…….then all of a sudden the other guy comes on strong and wins.
Don’t you remember the Tommy Morrison vs Ray Mercer fight?………….Mercer was getting hammered by Morrison……….but it was Mercer who turned the tables and gave Morrison one of his worst battering of his life.
With Brewster, Wlad simply got hit by some good shots and Brewsters was good enough to follow up when he saw Wlad was in trouble…….now how is that weird?
Seems perfectly normal to me……..on that night Brewster was the better man….. simple.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:22 pm 


Decker

Sred, you just like to argue. Don’t know what you do for a living, but in some past life you were most likely a lawyer. You use the old straw man argument all the time.

My point was that the Peter (still decent) that lost to Vitali was not as good as the one in Wlad-Peter I, which all but a loon will agree to. The Peter that Helenius beat was even worse.

As to Wlad-Brew I, yes that was a weird loss. Wlad was beating the crap out of Brew and then it’s like he went into a diabetic shock. Oh well, it happens. In their second bout Wlad easily stopped Brewster.

As to being dropped in that part of his career. OK, so what? Sanders dropped Wlad like 3X… with Wlad getting up. When Sanders wasn’t gassed he was a superlative finisher and he sure as hell stopped Wlad. Floyd Paterson was dropped something like 6X in his first fight w/Ingo. Ali was dropped by 185# Cooper for crying out loud !

Posted November 11, 2012 11:10 pm 


KL

Reem……………. looks like Big George did okay for a farm boy!!!
Olympic gold medal & 2 time World Heavyweight champ………..made sporting history………& not done too badly out of his grill either……… I’ll wager he’s probably got a few million in the bank for a rainy day.
Don’t you wish you could be even a fraction that successful & wealthy Reem?

Posted November 11, 2012 11:00 pm 


cluegiver

SREDMOND – Chris Byrd was more than good. Lewis never wanted to fight him and when Evander finally did he easily lost to him. He dropped down to LH after he was over the hill and he only had 1 fight and retired.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:00 pm 


BEARS

He did find a way to blast vitaly with the laces. The surgen says so too. Why can’t u get the wang of white guys outta your mouth? Infatuated? Addicted? Just tell me. I have a german kilbossa myself.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:57 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears, Lewis lost the second round badly, cut it out with the “smoked” BS because your characterization of that fight is beyond weird… You say Lewis was dominated, beat up destroyed ect… But in between all that malevolence he found a way to blast 60 stitches into Klits face, land the biggest shots of the fight and walk away with a TKO victory…. Get your bearing son you are rooting for the LOSER of that contest

Posted November 11, 2012 10:45 pm 


TARK

Vitali DID get head butted by Lewis.. The video evidence shows he was right on that count.. Illegal head work galore by Lewis.. Hair in the face and eyes.. Illegal holding and hitting.. Illegal lacing.. Illegal punching after the bell.. A whole dossier of fouls by Lewis, by far the dirtiest Heavyweight Champion of all time.. But even with the tainted win both Vitali and Wladimir have higher career winning percentages than Lewis has, and higher KO ratios … Lewis never looked as fast or as sharp as Wladimir looked last night—you’ll have to admit that—although Lewis DID win a decision over another 27-0 Eastern European. A guy named Zel Mavrovic—but in a much more boring fight where Lewis failed to impress anyone, or shutout his less esteemed opponent.. Lewis fought in slow motion.. Mavrovic fought worse oppostion than Wach, wasn’t nearly as big or skilled, and the mean score for the fight was 117-111

Posted November 11, 2012 10:44 pm 


SREDMOND

Poor Bears I think he is mad at me????

Posted November 11, 2012 10:42 pm 


SREDMOND

Laj, you are crazy Chris Byrd does NOT rate alongside Evander Holyfied at HW and Lewis did NOT struggle at all during their first bout that DRAW is a robbery so bad that one of the judges acknowleged he screwed up…. Evander was 4 time HW Champion of the World and he owns wins over Bowe, Tyson, Mercer, Foreman and Moorer… He was Undisputed Champ and got stopped once in his prime by a tough ass fighter like Big Bowe. Chris Byrd is a good fighter but he could not really make it as a HW thats why he dropped back down to LHW or Crusier I forget… Get real, one guy is going to the HOF one guy is NOT… Guess which one that is???

Posted November 11, 2012 10:39 pm 


SREDMOND

Explain to me how Vitalis resume rates vs Lewis or Wlads??? Wlad is the premier HW of this era an he beat the MORE relevant fighters than his brother and has more defenses, belts ect…. Lewis was the LAST Undisputed HW Champion of the World and he did something that even Wlad never did which was beat the guy who turned out to be the #2 man of the subsequent ERA…. Wlad NEVER fought Vitali and thus parity with Lewis is somewhat impossible and Vitali is COMPLETELY out of the conversation his best night was against Sam Peter a guy who is NO big deal historically…

Posted November 11, 2012 10:35 pm 


laj

Sorry Redmond, but I disagree. Wlad beating Byrd is certainly much better than Lewis struggles against Holy. I consider Byrd a better fighter than Holy, and he beat him easily and would beat him 9 out of 10 times. Wlad beat Ruslan, Iggy, Peter at his best, Chambers and Brock. those stack up easily against Lewis. Wlad was faster hits harder, and has better defense than Lewis. Wlad will be rated higher, and would have beaten Lewis 7 out of 10 fights. Anyhow got to run to watch the new Bond movie.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:35 pm 


BEARS

Its against the rules for lennox to be there in the first place. This schmuck has no regard for rulee cat gets smoked “because” he is breaking the rules. it didn’t look like much of a kick to me but it maybe should’ve been. Lennox should’ve been in a neutral corner. Don’t tell me about lennox’s helping hand. He was lacing vitaly. Your bitter schmuck after adrian utterly dismantled your who hits harder argument.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:32 pm 


SREDMOND

Wlad is definitely OVER Vitali but NOT over Lewis forget that one… Lewis beat Holy, Tyson and his damn brother… Wlad has NOT beat ANY fighters of that caliber its not even a close qualitative comparison… Lewis second tier fighters like Mercer who HE (Lewis) beat 6 years before Wlad, prime Briggs, Tua and Grant pretty much trump the Wlad resume… Besides Wlad did not try to unify which Lewis did…. All the special accomodations for brothers is nice but the cannot get the credit that would come from winning…Additionally Lewis avenged ALL his losses and Wlad left 66 2/3 of that to his older brother which is WEAK….

Posted November 11, 2012 10:31 pm 


Chip N Dale

I completely agree.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:28 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears, indicts Vitali by ADMITTING he threw a kick at Lewis….!!! He claims “Vitali pulled back off that kick” which means YOU admit the kicked in the first damn place at a man that was trying to help his battered ass off the ground…. Bleeding all over the place

Posted November 11, 2012 10:26 pm 


laj

Why do we keep talking about Vitali-Lewis. Great fight, long ago. Neither were at tgheir best and a cut stopped it. It was a legit punch, not hard, but the racking of the laces caused a cut. Let’s get back to Wald, who will be judged as higher than both Vitali and Lewis by history. And is in my opinion higher than both of them at this time. I give Wlad a slight edge over Lewis and Lewis a slight edge over Vitali, but that is just an opinion and experts will make the judgement in the future. Wlad is still going strong, and likley will keep it up for another 2-4 years. There will few if any that doubt his greatness when his riegn ends.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:25 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn.

Why couldn’t Lennox Lewis stop Mavrovic the Midget? He couldn’t even drop him despite having 30lbs on him and hitting him with everything bar the kitchen sink. Mavrovic came in at the third lowest weight of his career for that fight, which was somewhat surprising as he’d been averaging about 220-223 for most of his career, and it’s not like he had an ounce of fat on him at that weight either. Everyone thought Mavrovic was going to run and try to steal a decision after they saw the weigh in, including Lewis and his team, but he stood toe-to-toe with him for the most part, which was kinda crazy considering how much of a weight advantage Lewis had over him. Looking back in hindsight, I think it’s pretty obvious Mavrovic was in the initial stages of that dreadful illness that put and end to his career by that fight. I know he’s lost an ridiculous amount of weight since then too. Sadly, I think he’s down to about 12st now and he looks very gaunt and ill. Also he’d been out of action for nearly a year before that fight and his only ‘decent’ sparring during training came by the way of a rake thin, cruiserweight at best, member of the Croatian national amateur team in a run-down basement somewhere in Zagreb. Coming in at such a low weight, being inactive for that amount of time, and having such poor sparring was hardly ideal preparation for facing a journeyman let alone a prime Lennox Lewis who already had a huge size advantage and infinitely much more experience at fighting at the top level than him. In fact, Mavrovic had none prior to that fight and he was making a huge leap up in class by taking on Lewis, who was smack, bang in the middle of his prime. And yet despite all these disadvantages Mavrovic gave Lewis a real tough 12 rounds of action. Lewis was breathing really hard towards the end and his face mas a picture of sheer relief when they announced the decision. I think it’s pretty obvious had Mavrovic come in at his usual weight it would’ve not only have increased his ability to take a shot (not that he need any help in that department), but it also would’ve added to his power too. In fact, I have no doubt had he been 100% healthy, not been inactive, had proper sparring, and had more experience fighting at the top level he probably would’ve beaten Lewis that night and caused one of the biggest upsets in the sport’s history.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:22 pm 


SREDMOND

Decker you can do FAR better than “Wlad was coming off a recent strange loss to Brewster” there was NOTHING strange he was getting put down and knocked out on the reg during the span between Sanders and Peter, TKOed 2x, down around 8 times by 4 different boxers, Sanders, Brewster, Williamson and Peter… Wlad simply did not have his fight game together so Brewster catching up to him was par for the course during that span… As usual you want to claim Aliens were beaming subatomic particles into his head…

Posted November 11, 2012 10:22 pm 


SREDMOND

Iron, the rest of the fight did NOT look like the 2nd round… The first was damn near even and the 3rd went to Lewis via punch in the face that started Vitali down the road to ruin… Its nice you want to take an even SMALLER slice of a short fight but the reality is that it went 6 rounds before Vitalis body was rightfully deemed unfit to go any further…Vitali was not out of the game for a BUTT it was due to a punch and thats the name of the game :)

Posted November 11, 2012 10:19 pm 


laj

Wlad gets too comfortable when his jab and right hand are working so well. Could have stopped Wach if he used the left hook more( hasn’t used as much since his surgery after Ruslan fight), or stepped to the side and used angles better, like against Brock. Still hard to criticize someone that dominated and looked so good. I guess when something is working so well don’t mess with it.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:11 pm 


BEARS

Goosey- drop the fabrications. Vitaly is not the widely known cheater lennox is known as. Just look at the uproar tua’s camp made over the ref and lennoxs fouls before the fight. Plus vitaly is a kickboxing champ if he wanted to kick a man, I bet he could. Lennox should’ve gon to. Neutral corner. That’s the rules. Who knew lennox’s intention? But its aganst the rules to come up on vitaly like that. But the ref did a poor job handling the rules. Just drop the made up stuff. If a kickboxing champ wants to kick someone they will. Vitaly pulled back off that kick

Posted November 11, 2012 10:07 pm 


IronLife

@SREDMOND

While Vitali lost to Lewis on that cut you must agree that Vitali WAS winning that fight until the uppercut came. If the rest of the fight looked like the first 3-4 rounds then Lewis would have lost, at least a decision. THAT is why Lewis did not want a rematch, because he isn’t sure he can land that uppercut again. Personally, I don’t like wins that come via a cut.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:00 pm 


Goosey

Gonzo the Dragonborn.. That was a quality post.

Posted November 11, 2012 9:48 pm 


BEARS

Adrian just shut sredmonds who hits harder argument completely down. Go adrian

Posted November 11, 2012 9:48 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn.

I don’t even bother reading anyone else’s posts these days, well sometimes I do – there are some other quality posters on here beside myself, I just prefer to read my own ones over and over. As for the articles? Meh, I rarely read them either for the most part.

Posted November 11, 2012 9:44 pm 


Decker

Wlad did NOT stop Peter first time out and Vitali did, as did Helenius….
- Sred

??? You can do better then that. Peter was a top HW in their first fight and Wlad was coming off a recent, strange loss to Brewster. Wlad-Peter I was a high end epic bout!

The Peter that Helenius beat was worse than the Peter that Vitali beat.

Posted November 11, 2012 9:35 pm 


Goosey

adrian.. I can agree with that.. Good luck to Wach… I wish him all the best.

Posted November 11, 2012 9:34 pm 


adrian

@goosey–lol i never said that he is special but i think he will be tough cookie for a lot of other top prospects ,time will tell i could be wrong! but we remember how slow valuev was and he did not hit harder than wach and still manage to become a world champion..we shall see…

Posted November 11, 2012 9:30 pm 


Goosey

adrian.. I agree with that. But nots say he is a killer of greats just yet..

Posted November 11, 2012 9:27 pm 


SREDMOND

Jesus Christ he “landed a good shot” WOW that surely justifies the setting up of a match… Wach did less than nothing except get hit…

Posted November 11, 2012 9:25 pm 


adrian

@goosey,that was me and i dont hide behind nicknames i just forgot to write me name … my point is , somehow every klitchko opponent become bums after the fight him just like they caled haye…i ma saying lets not throw wach under the bus just because he lost to a beast ,klitchko…lets see how he does against other top prospect..

Posted November 11, 2012 9:25 pm 


Goosey

Ps.. Nice username Anonymous.. Now we all know who you are…

Posted November 11, 2012 9:09 pm 


Goosey

Anonymous

“goose@ and how did others look against wlad?? even haye who a lot of klit haters here were saying for years will take his head looked just as pathetic as wach!”

I never mentioned Haye. I just pointed out that the KBRos fans are talking crap again, and trying to make Wach out to be something he is not. Dan Rafael is telling you Wach was an “extremely untested challenger.” Ask him, not me.. I just agree with the guy…

Posted November 11, 2012 9:08 pm 


Anonymous

goose@ and how did others look against wlad?? even haye who a lot of klit haters here were saying for years will take his head looked just as pathetic as wach!

Posted November 11, 2012 9:02 pm 


ADRIAN

@SREDMOND–and your point is?? you want to tell just because vitaly couldnt stop chisora somehow haye is a harder puncher than wlad? you say vitaly has higher precentage of ko than wlad and he couldnt ko chisora so by that you want to tell me haye hits harder than wlad?? i dont get it , than you say forman ko moorer but when he couldnt stop schults a few fight earlier than that you say he was old?? than you say wlad couldnt stop peter but vitaly did?? you see you just proved my point ,you cant take examples and prove who hits harder than someone again styles makes fight just as your post proved my point!

Posted November 11, 2012 9:00 pm 


Goosey

But he beat McBride! Whoopie f’king doo!

Posted November 11, 2012 8:59 pm 


Goosey

The notion put out, by the usual ESB KBros fans, that Wach is this killer of greats, is lol-tastic.. The guy is a slow unskilled, unranked plodder.. As we all saw last night.

Posted November 11, 2012 8:59 pm 


SREDMOND

Adrian, Vitali has stopped a higher percentage of his opponents than Wlad… I agree that Wlad is a harder one punch fighter, the point is that Chisora was respected for his chin and he had been in with 3 BIG HW’s who hit him and are supposed to be able to stop guys and for the record Vitali was NOT as old as Foreman who was 45 when he stopped Moorer, Klits was like 40 or 41…. David Haye stopped a guy who had shown an ability to take a punch… You just said that Wach can only be beat on points because he survived Wlad thats not a realistic statement, Wachs chin looked good last night but who knows what the future holds… Wlad did NOT stop Peter first time out and Vitali did, as did Helenius….

Posted November 11, 2012 8:51 pm 


Goosey

Lol.. I forgot about that too.. Wach even failed at being tall..

Posted November 11, 2012 8:50 pm 


Lman

I knew Wach was out of his league in this one but he looked like a guy who only took up boxing 7 years ago because someone told him he could make a buck beating up on smaller guys and by having a good chin. Much respect to him though for atleast stepping up as inexperienced as he is, now if only the half a dozen or so guys in the division would do the same…

Posted November 11, 2012 8:49 pm 


adrian

valuev was much slower than wach and and didnt have a ahrder punch as wach does and he still managed to become a world champion and beat some good level of opposition , and why is that? because of his SIZE. DONT BE SUPRISED IF WACH BEATS SOME YOUNG PROSPECTS LIKE MITCHEL FURRY ETC…

Posted November 11, 2012 8:49 pm 


SREDMOND

Goosey, if you cannot see the skill with which Wach caught those punches flush in the face and simultaneously gave up his height then we must question your powers of deduction as it pertains to fights…???? Wach was brilliant and he is the future of the HW division… Sheesh :)

Posted November 11, 2012 8:47 pm 


SREDMOND

Tark the first time I have EVER heard of anyone crying foul in the Lewis/Klits fight was when you and Bears became utterly desperate and tried to rewrite the Bible on this message board… Vitalis team NEVER tried to allege that Lewis did anything dirty… OH they did~!!! Vitali lied postfight and said he was butted when everyone saw that right hand open his face up/…. But NOW we have you saying Lewis pulled out a razor and slashed him and Vitali lying about a butt in 2003??? Whats the story Tark and when you concoct your next theory try and have it sync up with the fighters position… “Wrist Raking” aka right hands to Vitalis face resulting in a TKO loss!!

Posted November 11, 2012 8:45 pm 


Goosey

Q) What did Wach do in this fight other than get hit a lot?
A) Be tall.

Posted November 11, 2012 8:42 pm 


SREDMOND

Sorry Decker, those dudes were GREAT in their time and you can set up your time machine and try to make crab HW’s like Wach look better but its futile… The Klits could KO another 25 guys and history will NEVER rethink Ali and others and say “they were weak” based on guys like Wach, Mormeck…. Besides the Klits NEVER had to face the BEST man of their ERA to prove a point brother or not…. The did not beat ANY of the kings of the last, not Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe… Instead they tried to build off their retreads, Mercer, Briggs, and Donald….Just be honest Wach is not a World Class fighter!

Posted November 11, 2012 8:38 pm 


adrian

kl- thats a deal buddy we shall see who was correct about wach’s future…
my prediction before the fight wach vs klitchko was that i was sure klitchko will show us a good fight and stop wach early because of wach size knowing that klitchko wont have to chase him like others around the ring(haye) but i also said this , that “if wach somehow survive first 8 rounds we might get an upset of the decade” just because i knew klitchko will have to work much harder than usuall and he if fail to stop wach early he could be in big trouble in the late rounds wich in a way he was in round 9 and 10 but what wach fail to do is attack in round 9 also he has a bad trainer who should have tell wach to go all out in round 9 because wlad was very tired in the end of round 8 , i dont know if wach would have been able to do anything in round 9 had he attacked considering that he was hurt but that was his really good chance to get to klitchko!

Posted November 11, 2012 8:33 pm 


Decker

Sred, Ali fought hard vs. fellow *US* tough ass fighters. In this era those tough ass CW’s and small HW’s would be KTFO by David Haye and other current HW’s. You can include S American (Bonavena) & W Europe (LHW+ Copper, CW Mildenberger) if you want too as part of Ali’s “epic” opponents LOL Yeah, they were tough and made many good fights among each other – in THAT era.

Look what has happened when the East (Communist) Euro block opened up.

Most, including me, thought Wlad would beat Wach. In hindsight it’s even easier! The risk is that Wach is one big, tough potato farmer (as he showed), and Wlad is 36 not 32. At that age Frazier was past his sell date and Ali should have retired.

Posted November 11, 2012 8:27 pm 


Goosey

TARK

“I wouldn’t call Lewis-Vitali an “epic” battle… There were hard punches landed but the fight was severely disappointing in that Lewis was given a pass for his egregious fouling by an obviously corrupt referee.”

Check out Vitali holding the back of Lewis’s head and hitting Lewis at the start of round 4.. Then trying to kick Lewis in the face seconds later… Or did you miss that bit?

Posted November 11, 2012 8:26 pm 


adrian

sredmond that was me below again lol

Posted November 11, 2012 8:18 pm 


Goosey

We have seen “The Rumble in the Jungle,” “The Thrilla in Manila,” and last
night we had “The Heavybag in Hamburg,” also known as.. “The No Hoper in
Altona.”

Dan Rafael is telling you Wach was an “extremely untested challenger.”
But rabid KTards will try to tell you otherwise and the guy was awesome..

Posted November 11, 2012 8:17 pm 


PitBull Petrill

Norton did push Holmes Red but the great Holmes fought with a torn bicep, which is a testament to Holmes’ greatness.

Posted November 11, 2012 8:16 pm 


TARK

I wouldn’t call Lewis-Vitali an “epic” battle… There were hard punches landed but the fight was severely disappointing in that Lewis was given a pass for his egregious fouling by an obviously corrupt referee.. A rematch was ordered mandatorily because of the controversial manner in which Lewis retained his title—and the fact Vitali was winning the fght when it was called.. Lewis reiterated several times that he was looking forward to fighting Vitali again and “focking up the other side of his face.” … Vitali was chomping at the bit to get at Lewis — but after all his blowhard comments Lewis slinked off into the sunset, refusing to fight Vitali again.

Posted November 11, 2012 8:16 pm 


Anonymous

sredmond– here it is , you said chisorra wasnt stoped by helenius furry and klitchko but he was stoped by haye so what does that prove us here???????? wlad didnt fight chisorra and vitaly is just as old as forman when he fought chisorra and we all know vitaly nevr punched harder than wlad anyway ,so why you are bringing up chisorra example here??? wlad is not vitaly they are two diferent fighters now ,wlad is at his peak vitaly is way past his prime we all saw the last fight how he looked!

Posted November 11, 2012 8:15 pm 


SREDMOND

Wach does not look slow, he IS slow and a solid caliber of fighter should be able to deal with his incoming.. He is a big man that has likely paid some dividends in terms of effect and staying on his feet…But Wach is nothing special, last night we saw OLD Sherman Williams buzz Helenius who was almost 8 inches taller… Reality is that Wach deserves no special benefit of the doubt he did not even do enough to evoke the legendary Klitschko caution in the ring… Haye kept Wlad honest throwing 14 punches per round

Posted November 11, 2012 8:12 pm 


adrian

kl-wach looked slow because of his size and he is not a klitchko but he has a reach wich will help him avoid geting hit with combination by a short fighter and will be able to land too more than he did against klitchko,just like he did in his previous 27 fights bums or not he dominated them !

Posted November 11, 2012 8:10 pm 


SREDMOND

Adrian you lost me on your last post to some extent man but you seem to IGNORE the reality that Foreman was OVER 45 years old during that crap fight with Schultz and Wlad was in the prime of his life….. Think that matters at all??? The reality of Haye stopping Chisora is just an exampe that KL put forth which debunks the myth of an invicible chin based on being hit by a banger… Klits can hit but its far to early to decide that Wach is a HW Antonio Margarito….

Posted November 11, 2012 8:08 pm 


KL

Adrian……..I’m not denying that Wach has a great chin……….but how many uppercuts did Wach receive……..or punches thrown at close range?
My point being that Wach has great punch resistance against Wlads long range type punches……..which are hard for sure…….but we can’t really say how Wach might fare against someone who isn’t afraid to throw the uppercut .
Time will tell………but I will say again……….Wach looks slow…….and I think he will look slow against many of the top prospects.

Posted November 11, 2012 8:05 pm 


SREDMOND

Adrian, styles make fights and there are no guarantees but Mitchell has way faster hands than slow ass Wach and he knows how to go to the body… Wach looks like a 3rd tier fighter to me and thats really from whence he came…I see him as a guy that Mitchell would have no issues getting to this guy

Posted November 11, 2012 8:03 pm 


adrian

sred-that was me below

Posted November 11, 2012 8:02 pm 


Anonymous

sredomnd–now why do you take examples bro?? if you take examples of”who stoped who, and who could not” we can take so manny conflicting examples and we can never prove anything like that because styles makes fights!i can also take one example that dont prove anything and that is “forman was beaten by a small euro fighter ,axel shultc but wlad stoped him in two rounds i think” but again i cant prove anything defenitive like that,what i can prove is that the example you took in haye vs chisora is that haye lost to wlad and thats a reality!

Posted November 11, 2012 8:01 pm 


SREDMOND

Decker, Ali fought hard against fellow TOUGH ass Championship level fighters, Pac Man cannot dominate Marquez and vice versa, Mayweather had to dig deeper against Cotto, Ali had to battle Frazier because he was a fellow elite fighter, look at how Norton pushed a prime Holmes to the wall when he was 35 years old 15 rounds!! You guys get so used to viewing hopeless mismatches that you don’t know what a solid Championship level fight MIGHT look like… This is why you guys try to give Vitali MORE credit for losing to Lewis and winning 4 rounds than you give him for MANY of his clear TKO’s over lessor foes…Top fighters don’t bend over….Leonard had to dig deep against Hearns and the list goes on…. Wach was an easy prediction and thats a fact

Posted November 11, 2012 7:58 pm 


adrian

kl– hey they are all big guys ,its very posible that even furry might stop wach but i am going to what i saw and that was the guy took over 240 power shots from the hardest puncher in boxing today and he still was standing there and what i saw in his other fights wach is a decent boxer and he can fight plus can pop and my take is just because he was
abused by klitchko it doesent mean the like of mitchell will “kill” him again we shall see..

Posted November 11, 2012 7:55 pm 


SREDMOND

KL, Chisora is an even better example of a guy getting stopped who had faced 3 other big men and taken fire without even a wobble only to get laid out by a guy he was 30 pounds heavier… Good Call!

Posted November 11, 2012 7:50 pm 


SREDMOND

Adrian, I wish Wlad fought like that more often he went after Wach early and often he was having no issues avoiding the “Big One” saying that Wachs chin is a staple is premature its being based on his taking some shots from Wlad… We saw Briggs stopped by a scrub when he was young but Vitali could not stop him later?? If Wach steps up his comp and keeps getting hit who knows what will happen… Again I think Mitchell would eat him up the guy is too slow, and even if he can stay in the ring for 12 it does not mean he is gonna win and any good athlete should be able to see those shots coming from a mile away…

Posted November 11, 2012 7:45 pm 


KL

Adrian, I’m not sure I share your view that Wach can only be beaten on points………it wasn’t so long ago that a certain David Chisora went the distance with Fury,Helenius & Vitali………only to get Koed by Haye in 5.
I think a number of prospects mentioned i.e Price, Pulev…….perhaps some of the Americans Mitchell, Jennings, Wilder could also do a number on Wach…….and quite possible do what Wlad couldn’t & stop him……….of Bears & Reem will claim that Wach punch resistance was destroyed by Wlad & that’s why other can now KO him!
Again it comes down to styles………Wach is slow enough for most of the top prospects to land good shots on his chin…….the difference being that some of the prospect won’t mind getting in the trenches and throw some punches a closer range than Wlad………..i.e show Wach some meaty uppercuts……..then you might see Wach’s jaw is huma after all.
Yes it’s all speculation……..but that’s my take……….Wach can be Koed by other big prospects.

Posted November 11, 2012 7:43 pm 


adrian

ok sredmond than we shall see how wach will do in the future… again my point is they all fail to look good against klitchko the same with wach and btw klitchko did more than i expected it just that wach jaw suprised me ,you said yourself wlad was agresive from the beging to the end.with a tough jaw like that wach will be a problem for most in the haveyweight devision the only way he could lose a fight is in points by a tall fighet like price and pulev the rest i am not sure the will beat him , we shall see.

Posted November 11, 2012 7:31 pm 


KL

Anon, It’s not really that Wach looked slow JUST because he faced Wlad, sure Wlad made him look slower than perhaps he normally is………but prior to this fight a few weeks back I looked back at some random fights of Wach’s on YouTube……….and within 5 minutes I had seen enough………I thought the guy was slow and would not be difficult target for Wlad’s jab……..and that proved to be the case last night.
So really Wlad did a good number on Wach…………but nothing that could not be predicted just by watching some of Wach’s previous fights……….Wach IS slow!

Posted November 11, 2012 7:25 pm 


Decker

Sred, the reason Ali had so many “epic battles” was b/c he wasn’t dominant over fighters like Frazier or Norton. Those 2 Ali opponents would be blasted out of there by many current/recent HWs.

Haye, one of my fav benchmarks, would be a big HW with speed & power in the 70s. I think Haye – and many other HWs – could stop Frazier or Norton, maybe early. Ali went life and death in 3 bouts w/Joe & Ken.

Why don’t you take off the nostalgia & biased lenses when the HW div. was dominated by fighters you identify with.

Posted November 11, 2012 7:21 pm 


SREDMOND

Adrian, I expected Wach to lose to Wlad by KO or TKO, that said if you are trying to debate handspeed I have NO idea where you are going… Wlad is fast for a man his size, but Wach is SLOW for any fighter at this level and its apparent… He was reaching, pawing and telegraphing…The old “he is terrific except for Wlad argument” does not stand because he is not beating really good prime fighters and his technique is POOR…Mitchell in my estimation would be WAY to fast for Wach in exchanges and he would get caught badly… There are several top contenders that would get the job done vs Wach I see a guy who will NEVER be a Top 15 fighter legitimately….

Posted November 11, 2012 7:18 pm 


adrian

sredmond-sorry the post below is made by me i forgot to put my name

Posted November 11, 2012 7:13 pm 


Anonymous

sredmond–again bro wach looked slow and was eating wlad punches because he never faced a tall boxer with sklill and strong as klitchko but my point is whomever we put in front of klitchko he is just outclasing them and we will see what wach will do in the future, if he fights mitchell and gets “killed”as you say i will admit it to you that you were right but i am more than sure wach is not that easy to “kill” and actually i think he beats mitchell who was not tested going to the distance!

Posted November 11, 2012 7:12 pm 


BEARS

Is it possible wachs punch resistance has been effected by that beating? Of course it is. I think wach vs price would be awesome. I’m. Big price fan and I’m ready for him to step up. He reminds me of wlad and he might be the future of heavyweight boxing. Fury is a hell of a guy, love his personality but fury lacks mustard in his punches an at the heavyweight level there is nothing I hate more. I would have to favor price but given what we know of each fighter at this time it could be exciting as hell. Fury, helenius, price, wach I would be tickled pink to see any combination of those guys fighting. But again there are so many in heavyweight I like but price is probably my fav after the klitschkos. I really think price should be stepping up every time out now. He should be taking on namers from around the globe. I would like to see the uk heavies taking on the americans. Would be beautiful. Fury, price, perez vs mitchel, wilder, stiverne, even arreola. But I would pay to see price vs wach

Posted November 11, 2012 7:03 pm 


KL

Oops I meant If Wach never gets Ko’ed NOT Wlad!

Posted November 11, 2012 6:44 pm 


SREDMOND

Tark intellgent fans are not going to compare Klits/Wach to ANY great historical battles because it was a TRUE Champion vs a No HOPER and the fight played out as expected… Ali has more epic battles than Wlad will EVER have, (Wlad has NONE)… Vitali had ONE epic battle which he lost….

Posted November 11, 2012 6:43 pm 


KL

Bears funny you should mention Abdusamalov and Szpilka……..both are sluggers with heavy hands…….but neither is a good boxer, and both had problems with the ageing Jameel Mcline………who’s punch resistance must have been shattered by Wlad over a decade ago!
Neither Abdusamalov and Szpilka would stand much more than a puncher’s chance against Wlad……..or even the prospects being mentioned like Price,Pulev etc.
Now let’s say Wach gets Koed sometime in the next couple of years by another boxer………of course you’ll claim it was because “his punch resistance was never the same after he met Wlad”…………but IF Wlad never gets KO’ed…….you’ll claim his chin was one of the hardest in history……..in other words you can’t lose (in your world at least!) because you’ve covered both basis!
It kinda reminds me of those religious types as Al Pachino puts it……… “Whenever some good happens……..it’s God’s will……….whenever anything bad happens…….the devil is to blame! LOL

Posted November 11, 2012 6:42 pm 


BEARS

Oh. I see. I guess I meant “isn’t”. I can see how it can be interpreted like that. My bad

Posted November 11, 2012 6:41 pm 


SREDMOND

Tark, Wlad was in there with a guy who offered VERY little his punch output was down from the FIRST round and he was winging shots wide and SUPER slow… Wlads defenses were NOT even challenged lets get real…He had a punching bag in the ring and he did his job, but lets not act like crisp, fast combos were coming from a highly skilled opponent…

Posted November 11, 2012 6:40 pm 


SREDMOND

Why even speculate Bears? Why not move on with the damn thing and stop looking to garner additional credit for Wlad?? Bashing Wach was NOT his crowning glory in the ring… He did the job he was EXPECTED to do, 15-1 odds for him doing some version of this.. Personally I thought Wlad would stop the guy and I commend Wachs chin but he is a punching bag and thus ends the story… You want to speculate on the status of his “punch resistance” in order to keep pumping things up…. Wlad hurt him, he took some big shots but he never went down so why not accept what we do know… HE LOST

Posted November 11, 2012 6:38 pm 


TARK

You’re blind Anonymous… Wladimir threw left hooks, uppercuts and combinations… What fight were you watching? Wladimir moved, punched, and defended very well, caught only one really hard punch, and wasn’t an open target like Ali was against Frazier, Norton, Spinks, Holmes, Berbick, Young, Jones, Lyle, and Cooper.. Critics of Klitschko can’t say Klitschko vs Wach wasn’t more exciting than out-an-out Ali stinkers: Ali vs Evangelista… Ali vs Lubbers… Ali vs Bugner I… Ali vs Bugner II… Ali vs Spinks II… Ali vs Young… Ali vs Mac Foster… and Ali vs Mathis.. Wladimir’s most boring fight of his life—against reluctant Sultan Ibragimov—was better than those tepid, dreadful, listless sparring sessions.

Posted November 11, 2012 6:35 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn.

I’m the best poster on this site, and by a country mile too.

Posted November 11, 2012 6:29 pm 


SREDMOND

Wlad and Vitali likely did contribute to Sam Peters demise but FAT Sammy also did NOT like to train and faced Vitali pretty out of shape (Not Klits fault) Peter is a poor specimen of a professional and his early expiration is what it is…. But stop trying to decide that Wach is done because he took Wlads shots, perhaps he was simply not that badly hurt….At the end of the day Wlad could not put him down, stop looking for more credit leech!

Posted November 11, 2012 6:29 pm 


BEARS

Unbiased dane- go get them. Good stuff

Posted November 11, 2012 6:26 pm 


SREDMOND

Ward went in and beat EVERYONE in a tourney where he was NOT even the favorite then he just TKOEd the guy who is the best LHW around for the past several years.. I NEVER said the Klits are NOT HOF level boxers and to be honest I think Wlad is pulling away from Vitali pretty handily at this point… But the reality is that Wach, Mormeck and Thompson II were some weak ass opponents before, during and after when stacked against the step up in class…Ward beat the #1 #2 and #3 guys in his division… Wlad and Vitali won’t fight so they are out here beating on manufactured threats… Let them fight if they want to define the ERA???? I’m all ears!

Posted November 11, 2012 6:26 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears if Wach beats Fury, that just means Fury is garbage also… Reality is that Wach is a piss poor fighter at the World Level and thats just the way it is….Fury might be ducking some people but at least he got a win on Chisora… Whereas Wach is beating a DEAD man like Mcbride and has pathetic FAUX boxing fans like you trying to pass him off as terrific, a day AFTER he did NOT win a round off Wlad and stood there like a punching Bag….

Posted November 11, 2012 6:22 pm 


BEARS

Wach got beat on very bad to the point where the american announcers were shocked it wasn’t stopped. Joe mesi didn’t get beat on like that by jirov. I think he got knocked down 3 times throught the fight and won but had brain bleeding so he could never fight again legally. But were talking more punch resistance. I think u could make the case after wlad one and vitaly one sam peters punch resistance went to hell but there are even better exampls but same never got knocked down inn those contests

Posted November 11, 2012 6:20 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears you can’t rule on how Wach will fare post Klits, he was fighting weak fighters before and will likely go back to that… Wlad had Tony Thompson sleeping on the canvas and he was still able to comeback and beatup MORE lames over the 5 years between the first time Wlad capped him… Stop acting like every fighter the Klits face is never the same… Good grief now we have to listen to a guy with proven brain damage (Bears) try and rule on another guys neurological condition… LOL

Posted November 11, 2012 6:19 pm 


SREDMOND

Wach is NOT a namer and neither is szpilka with his 12 professional fights… The ONLY thing a guy has to do to be on your radar is be a HW who has had ONE professional fight… Wach was is ranked something like 22nd in the World… OF course you will say that his GREAT because he fought a Klitschko but the man is NOT a serious contender in the slightest and his LOW profile, lack of quality opponents and MASSIVE underdog status betray that fact…

Posted November 11, 2012 6:16 pm 


BEARS

Meh- yeah “punch resistance”. We won’t know to what extent wachs brains got rattled or the neuroligical effects of wlads brutal onslaught…..but its happened multiple times. Especially at the hands of the klitschkos. They put people through a meat grinder. If ur not aware of people loosing punch resistance maybe u should consult the retard coalition of which u re a vitaly part with know all and schmuck shredmond

Posted November 11, 2012 6:07 pm 


Anonymous

Waldimir don’t know how to throw a uppercut and hook to the body and no combinations either.
The only thing he’s doing well is jab, grab and straight right hand while having a nice footwork but that’s it. Against wach his right was less accurate, he often missed.
although wach took many punches.

Posted November 11, 2012 5:34 pm 


BEARS

Wachs been on the radar as long or longer than abdusamalov and szpilka ANOTHER two guys we have been watching. Abdusamalov has been getting a lot of coverage in the u.s. dudes getting a following. But wach is stil someone. Still a namer and still someone were gonna watch. Incredible toughness and strong. I would put money on wach over fury if wachs punch resistance wasn’t shattered by wlad.

Posted November 11, 2012 5:25 pm 


SREDMOND

Anyone who has seen a skilled talented HW boxer in the ring can say that Wach does NOT meet that criteria, regardless of Wlads FAR greater skills the deficits Wach displayed were PAINFULLY apparent…. Leaning in, Poor handspeed, Poor accuracy, Poor footspeed, inability to fight inside or cut off the ring…. This dude is NOTHING more than Big…If he was 6″2 and fought like that he might NEVER have gotten a shot but given the fact he was 6″8 it gives the appearance of him having a shot….This guy is like alot who can beat C level fighters thats why he is not on the radar beyond Wlad handpicking him….

Posted November 11, 2012 5:06 pm 


SREDMOND

Vitali accomplished one thing of note that night with Lewis and of course it was an intangible… He washed away the stench of quitting against Byrd, Kudos!! Beyond that he racked up a loss on his record, defined himself by a loss and needed 60 stitches in order to get on with his life… BUT if only he hit harder? But he didn’t BUT if only he had stopped Lewis But he didn’t BUT if only the ref would have disallowed Lewis punching him in the face But he didn’t…. So what are we left with??? Klitschko losing and bleeding

Posted November 11, 2012 5:02 pm 


Goosey

Yes I do.. Lol.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:59 pm 


SREDMOND

Tark, you cannot write the result you want and make it be true, the ONE round of jeopardy that Lewis had was pretty unremarkable… I have seen guys in horrible trouble and Lewis was simply stunned and Klits did not have what it takes to followup or make more of the moment…And guess what I have irrefutable PROOF!!! Video of the fight where the NEXT round comes and goes, Vitali is bleeding then he is pulled out of deeper water than he was EVER in by the 6th round… This comes from HBO and planet Earth NOT the methamphetamine lab that exists in yours and Bears minds… LOL Vitali lost, he produced NO KD’s and NO KO’s instead he was stopped…. FACTS

Posted November 11, 2012 4:59 pm 


BEARS

Goosey-lol, u don’t know what an oxymoron is son

Posted November 11, 2012 4:58 pm 


Goosey

TARK

“If VK’s right hand in the 2nd round caught another inch of Lewis’s chin, instead of sending LL staggering and reeling like a drunk he would have sent him to the canvas for 10.”

if, instead of, would have. Ect..

“If only” eh?

Posted November 11, 2012 4:58 pm 


Goosey

Looked good I mean .. lol.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:44 pm 


Goosey

PitBull Petrill.. Good to see you. I have also been away from ESB recently. I got put off by the format change and am sorting out moving house. Wlad looked I agree.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:41 pm 


PitBull Petrill

sorry typo, what I meant to say was amanda used some of my arguments regarding Mike Tyson.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:35 pm 


PitBull Petrill

Goosey my man! How have you been? It has been a good month or so since I have posted in an ESB forum. I believe it was a Joe Calzaghe vs. Andre Ward forum. But I couldn’t help but post after the most exciting Klit fight I have seen in years.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:34 pm 


PitBull Petrill

Reem and company: the heavyweight blog is a great site from a former ESB forum poster amanda. She used a couple of arguments against Tyson but she is a stats genius.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:31 pm 


Goosey

PitBull Petrill .. Hello!

Posted November 11, 2012 4:31 pm 


Goosey

From what I have read online about this fight, most people seem to be saying Wlad boxed very well versus a tough but limited fighter in Wach. Dan Rafael said Wlad boxed great and ticked all the boxes, but described Wach as a “extremely untested challenger.” Why can this basic truth Rafael stated not be good enough for the usual KBros fans on ESB?

Yet again they are lashing out at the history of the heavyweight division, to try and make another KBros opponent out to be this big scary destroyer that would have beated “insert name of any random great from the past.” I could see this happening from a mile away. It always does.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:30 pm 


PitBull Petrill

Good Gents! All is well here and aside from working 80 hrs per week, I am fine.lol

Posted November 11, 2012 4:27 pm 


huckster

There was sirens in round 5 coming out of the K corner. Damn that bell rang early. Just joking.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:20 pm 


knowall

nemo….. Yeah i should

Posted November 11, 2012 4:01 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears face facts on the night he knocked Lennox Lewis out, Rahman hit Lewis WAY harder than your arm punching, accumulation TKO hero Vitali Klitschko… You love to point to all the shots that Klits landed but you cannot adequately explain why he did NOT duplicate or even come close to duplicating Rahmans result??? We are talking about BOTH guys vs Lewis, Vitali simply lacked the power to get the OLD man out of there whereas 2 or 3 fights earlier Rahman flatblasted Lennox….. Klits is not a one punch KO guy even with FAR lessor opponents than Lennox and it cost him that night… Dude could not even get Adamek out of there till the 10th, nor could he leave him on the canvas….Lennox Lewis TKO round 6, NOW, FOREVER and ALWAYS!!

Posted November 11, 2012 4:00 pm 


knowall

Bears …. im a boxing fan and not a snooze fan. By your previous posts i know far more than yoi. The bodies do need to sort it out but does wlad fight mand challengers all the time…. the answer chap is no, as you wont no. If you enjoy watching rubbish like that its clear your not a boxing fan

Posted November 11, 2012 4:00 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears turns boxing reality on its ear in his simple mind, YES we do glorify tissue damage, broken noses, broken ribs, crushed cheeks, blown out orbital bones ect…. Boxing is a sport built on DAMAGE…. There is a reason a KD or KO produces MORE points or more credit and thats because it is conclusive proof a man was hurt or stunned… The more you bust a guy up and make him bleed the BETTER…. This is PRO boxing not the Olympics which Kits would have preferred when a real hard hitter was putting the stroke on his grill… Bears and Co get tight because there hero was getting abused like petulant child at a Catholic school….So yes we applaud cuts and damage caused by punching… Thats boxing UNLESS its a Klit on the short end of the stick….

Posted November 11, 2012 3:56 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears, you cannot build a legacy off of “boo’s” and Compubox… You need a win and that is what Vitali was unable to produce against the GREATEST fighter he or Wlad will EVER face.. Its clear you think that Lewis is FAR better than Klitschko because in order to gain your respect all Klits had to do was win 4 rounds then be TKOed…. You can judge the esteem a person his held in by the level of expectations… YOU expected little from Klits that why you are MORE satisfied with his TKO loss to Lewis than you are with his 45 actual wins…. SAD!

Posted November 11, 2012 3:47 pm 


KL

Bear……..I guess you missed earlier Reem comment suggesting that Wach would have beaten Foreman & Frazier……..that’s what sparked this whole debate about Foreman.

Posted November 11, 2012 3:23 pm 


BEARS

knowall- maybe you should call for the sanctioning bodies to do their jobs and put together the forced eliminators to create mandatory challenges. you just showed with that post you dont understand boxing so your far from “knowing it all”. in fact thats why pulev and ustinov were fighting because it was part of an elimination process. thats why tony thompson got a mandatory because he was the one who came out on top after chambers pulled out of the eliminator he was involved in but again you dont know that. because the retard coalition doesnt know much and has no analytical reasoning or critical thinking capacity. the front of the coalition is lead by sredmond who sputters out the exact same sentences daily. must be a copy and paste job. at least redmond injests the vocabulary of others and tries to use the terminology as his own. so its no wonder you other retards are his subordinates. and thats pathetic to be the subordinate of a retarded schmuck. but such is life for you sorry fux

Posted November 11, 2012 3:20 pm 


nemo

knowall, you should do the promo-thing and the refereeing. Go and look for HWs with a pulse put them in front of klitschko, get them koed and then get booed by other guys like you… knowitall….

Posted November 11, 2012 3:19 pm 


BEARS

‘KL-nobody related wach to the past era’s as far as i know. i know i didnt. i never said anything remotely close to that. i did say juxtapost the fraziers, nortons, listons, and foremans into boxing in this era and i think they would fade into obscurity or become cruisers. namely, they would suffer the same fate as all contenders in the klitschKO era have suffered. i dont think ‘some’ contenders of this era could beat some of those guys. could wach do it? i dont know about that, wachs early his career. we havent seen enough of wach. and he’s nowhere near done developing if he is to have a long future in boxing. but you obviously cant read because your leading on like people are saying things they never said. joining the coalition of retards i see

Posted November 11, 2012 3:14 pm 


huckster

Pulev’S last fight?? Ustinov was KOed. He had enough. Sasha was KOed. He had enough. Pulev is a big 6’4″.

Posted November 11, 2012 3:13 pm 


knowall

I call for wlad to be stripped of the titles till he fights guys with a pulse and call for refs to man up and ref properly against this cheat champion

Posted November 11, 2012 3:12 pm 


knowall

Wlad will prob defend against Boswell or some crap like that. He wont fight Pulev as he is one of the better guys. He sh#t his pants in round 5 the one and only time wach hit him. If he did fight pulev he would only throw him on the floor.

Posted November 11, 2012 3:09 pm 


BEARS

i guess arm punches are enough to retire lennox to boo’s followed by lennox’s announcements that was his toughest fight of his career and vitaly hit him harder than anyone else. so schmuck redmond if arm punches have that effect on lennox what do you make of that? LOLOOOOOLOLOLOL cya man

Posted November 11, 2012 3:09 pm 


KL

Okay Reem & Bears……..you’ve convinced me……..Wach was a fantastic opponent……..even though I stated several weeks back on this forum that from watching some of his previous fights
Wach looked terrible…….and that Wlad wouldn’t have too many problems with this guy.
But now you’ve convinced me that Wach would have beaten all the greats of the 70s……….too bad Wach never fought back then…….because we wouldn’t be talking about Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they would have all been blasted out by this great of all greats Mariusz Wach!
Last night we did see a good performance by Wlad pummelling the one they “Should” really call “The Greatest”…………long live Wach……….they will be talking about Wach 50 years from now……….indeed he might even be up for sportsman of the century award!

Posted November 11, 2012 3:06 pm 


nemo

thing is, Vitali can’t end his career against an ATG, because he won’t fight his bro. There’s no ATG in sight by miles.

Posted November 11, 2012 3:04 pm 


knowall

meh …… Well said

Posted November 11, 2012 3:03 pm 


BEARS

meh i factor all that into my assessments and i think im . i just dont think highly of cuts. especially those by way of holding hitting/lacing. you never hear me glorify cuts or even mention them because they are not relevant. there is no cut specialist. there is no science to it. klitschkos have been cut like wlad was cut last night. klitschkos have won and badly cut their opponents in byrd, williams, purritty etc. nobody glorifies cuts but klitschko haters.

Posted November 11, 2012 3:02 pm 


BEARS

i guess vitaly had more than a tri fecta he FORCED lennox into retirement following the “i age like fine wine” comment from lennox as though he is not planning retirement. following the promise. emanuel steward even told lennox to rematch lennox. dude got sent packing forced into retirement to a soundtrack of boo’s. what an end to lennox’s career. talk about HATING IT!!!!!!

Posted November 11, 2012 2:54 pm 


BEARS

“why could vitaly not duplicate?” vitaly one up’ed them and even did it with a loss. vitaly had the crowd, the telecast, and the wbc sanctioning body. quite the tri-fecta if you ask me. plus the clean sheet. we saw in the first 2 rounds what vitaly does with two eye’s and in the last 4 with one eye. 66% of the fight with one eye. this has is all common knowledge and has been stated countless times. as i said schmuck take your minority view up with the professionals

Posted November 11, 2012 2:52 pm 


BEARS

shmuck redmond- tell your minority view concerning vitaly vs lennox to dan rafael, larry merchant, freddy roach, george foreman, and the countless other professionals around the sport who dont accept your “minority view”. you dont need to waste your flawed ass logic on me. i think its garbage

Posted November 11, 2012 2:48 pm 


BEARS

with that logic shmuck redmond chisora is in the loose column against helenius so i guess we shouldnt look at that fight. continued failed logic

Posted November 11, 2012 2:46 pm 


BEARS

thompson was a on a ko streak and it was the ibf/ibo who made him mandatory. point today was 60′s and 70′s hof fighters were fighting local competition non global samples in contests/bouts. juxtapose frazier, liston, norton, and foreman of that era into this one and they sink into obscurity or become cruisers. they couldnt thrive. your filled with a bunch of fake compubox and flawed logic like (rahman stops lennox so rahman hits harder) lol. you suck at analytical reasoning son

Posted November 11, 2012 2:44 pm 


SREDMOND

At least Pulev is trying to fight some name guys and build towards a shot it appears… Wach and Charr were created in a lab, given records and then sold to the public by nutty Klit fans who would dub Britney Spears a threat if Wlad needed another defense LOL

Posted November 11, 2012 2:39 pm 


SREDMOND

Mercer was a harder night for Lewis he ACTUALLY went a full 10 rounds whereas Klits was only good for 6 and by the 3rd his night was almost over due to that SWEET cut Lewis opened with that crip right hand…. Klits loves moving back to get out of range which is effective with smaller, slower boxers but even and OLD Lewis caught him and started the damage that he built on till Klitschko was damn near in need of a transfusion, trying to talk shiiiiiit with gauze hanging out of his face…

Posted November 11, 2012 2:37 pm 


huckster

Let’s see if either of K-Bros take on Pulev in the 2013. If not, they and every K-fan will say Pulev avoided them. It makes no sense. If you look at Pulev’s resume, he is training for them and anything bigger. Pulev-Wlad 2013

Posted November 11, 2012 2:35 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears, there is NO need to discuss Vitalis performance vs Rahmans and McCalls because during their first battle Hasim and Oliver belong in the WINNERS column, meanwhile Vitali is in the LOSERS column… YOU claim that Klits dog walked, tee’d off ect… That said why could he NOT duplicate even a KD?? Dude was not hitting hard enough and those arm punches that wear down B and C level guys who are to inept to return fire were NOT cutting it with the GREAT Lewis who ate Klits shots and then hit him back even HARDER…. Don’t believe me??? Ask Vitalis grill postfight

Posted November 11, 2012 2:34 pm 


knowall

Bears , by trying to argue this point you sound more stupid than you already are

Posted November 11, 2012 2:33 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears the Klits are fighting trash like Mormeck and a washed up Thompson, Wach who never did anything and Charr who did about the same NADA… David Haye had the belt for 2 fights then stepped up and fought the BEST HW over the past several years..I ding his performance like most but he has you Vitali fans shaking in your boots after he creamed Chisora…. You dare not let that little man get in there with Klits, you are fine with Vitali facing the NEXT scrub but not a recent Cruiser??? Shameful :(

Posted November 11, 2012 2:31 pm 


BEARS

because rahman landed a punch on a sweet spot does not mean he hits harder than vitaly. because mcall the same and because lennox did on briggs the same. the only accurate barometer of who hits harder is the guy being hit. your retarded

Posted November 11, 2012 2:30 pm 


SREDMOND

Holy won the title from Mike Tyson who was only 30 years old, had won 8 in a row and was something like 45-1 when Evander TKOed him during a MASSIVE upset…What Champ did the Klits EVER beat that they were a BIG underdog to???? I know, I know, Vitali won 4 rounds off Lewis then spent the next few months rubbing medicine into the bullet wounds Lennox put in his face when he stopped him in 6 rounds… Klits have to discuss WEAK ass fighters like Herbie Hide as peak moments LOL

Posted November 11, 2012 2:28 pm 


BEARS

well a “voluntary” defense is by nature a man “choosing” who he wants to fight. like david haye “choosing” to fight harrison. LOL. for his first defense despite a ton of the heavies calling himout. i think even chambers called him out. People just havent been that apt to fight the klitschKOs. they are more apt to fight guys like haye.

Posted November 11, 2012 2:27 pm 


SREDMOND

Moorer and Tyson were NOT way past it, if anything Holy was the guy who was supposed to LOSE against Tyson as evidenced by the fact it was UPSET OF THE YEAR for “96″ I believe was the year…. Moorer had beaten Holy previously but SUDDENLY he is past it because silly Bears needs to try and distort history to detract from the proven GREATNESS of Holyfield… Unlike Wlad in his prime Holy tried to avenge his losses and did not have an older brother to wipe his tears and beat up the Bad Men who had crushed him…. Purrity and Sanders!!

Posted November 11, 2012 2:25 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears, sure Vitali was a tough fight for Lewis but its clear that Rahman and McCall were tougher because they actually own wins via stoppage over him… Whereas Vitali lacked the power to score a KD and certainly NOT a KO…. Lennox of course did more damage to Klits than ANYONE unless you can find another fighter who turned his face into a Muslim prayer rug replete with stitches from top to bottom in 6 rounds???? Worst night of Vitalis boxing career was against Lewis NOT vice versa…. Rahman got a KO win, Vitali got a TKO loss…. No comparison in performance Klits just showed how tough the old man was even at the end of his career!

Posted November 11, 2012 2:22 pm 


BEARS

holy won titles off of a waay past it mike tyson and moorer. and really who cares because holy could NEVER hold on to titles like foreman. but take a look at who these guys were winning titles from and who they lost them too and how long they could hold on to them. the devil is in the detail

Posted November 11, 2012 2:21 pm 


SREDMOND

Bears, we all KNOW who hit Briggs hardest and that was Lennox Lewis because at the PEAK of his powers as a young fighter he could not stay on his feet against Lennox and was out of the bout in 5 rounds…. Vitali could not even put the version of Briggs that was on life support out of the contest he had to pound on him like Wach for 12 rounds and did not have the POP! to put the OLD man out….Testimonials cannot compensate for the clear footage of Lewis knocking Briggs down 3 times… AGAIN you are reaching because you need ANY credit possible no matter how farfetched to bolster your claims…

Posted November 11, 2012 2:19 pm 


mr rubes

Yes this is true knowall

Posted November 11, 2012 2:17 pm 


SREDMOND

Up until he was around 37 years old or so Evander Holyfied held a win over EVERY HW he had faced including Tyson, Moorer, Bowe, Foreman, and Mercer… You can try to know Holys hustle by trying to sell the washed up version of him beat by Byrd, and Donald but even at 46 many think he should have got the nod against Valuev… Holyfields and ATG and that is etched in stone, he has made HW History as the ONLY guy to go from Undisputed Cruiserweight Champ and become Undisputed HW Champ… This dude was small for the weight and yet he competed and was only stopped once in the prime of his life by a HARD ass man like Bowe who he fought 3 times…. The Klits don’t boast a resume of quality wins or prime opponents like Holy does…. Guys were giving Wlad props for beating a 41 year old Mercer, while Holy beat him when he was a much younger fighter…

Posted November 11, 2012 2:16 pm 


knowall

Wlad is the one that cheats. Dirty fighter, tatics. The biggest way he cheats is the fans by fighting rubbish all the time

Posted November 11, 2012 2:15 pm 


SREDMOND

Rubes is your classic boxing amateur… Lewis fought Holyfield in a unification match because Holy had 2 belts and the tough as hell Holy went 24 rounds with Lennox even though the planet knows he got a gift draw first time out…. Who was Lewis supposed to face in order to become Undisputed?? Holyfield is the GREATEST Crusier to come to HW and prove he belonged in the class… That is evidenced by his capturing the title 4 times and being Undisputed himself…. Evander cannot be passed off as a “blown up Cruiser” the way Adamek and Gomez can because he actually BEAT HW Champions… Even Haye managed to get a belt but has not accomplished 1/5th of what Holy did at the weight…. Get real

Posted November 11, 2012 2:07 pm 


SREDMOND

Whats up Pitbull, nice to see you around too man!

Posted November 11, 2012 2:01 pm 


Mr Rubes

Well said BEARS

Posted November 11, 2012 1:57 pm 


Mr Rubes

Anyway, I’m signing off for now. meh…you’re too much ;)

Posted November 11, 2012 1:56 pm 


Mr Rubes

I guess Lewis must feel very relieved so that he fought a Holyfield that was PASSED his best even (Ring magazin state this) as was fortunate in many people’s eyes to get the decision in the rematch of this passed it blown up cruiserweight. And I have no idea what you are talking about. Comparing Holyfield to who? To Wlad’s opponent last night? Did I mention Wach? Are you using one of your bosses tricks of changing the subject completely?

Posted November 11, 2012 1:55 pm 


BEARS

the football (soccer) your watching is not taking place in a foreign country with a foreign neutral crowd that initially was cheering the other team like what happened in staples center los angelos california. they initially cheered lennox. they “BECAME” vitaly fans by the end of it. who won the 6th round is subjective. not all the judges scored the fight the same and in fact vitaly did to lennox what noone else was able to. vitaly klitschko CLEAN SHEETED lennox in the compuboxing department OUTLANDING lennox EVERY round. This had never been done. and if your from the uk you should appreciate a CLEEN SHEET shouldnt you?

Posted November 11, 2012 1:55 pm 


Mr Rubes

In MANY of the rounds Lewis held on (initiated the clinches) easily in double digits a round. If the fights were not so boring, and/or I deemed you worthy enough to make the effort, I would actually go on to youtube now and post you at least 6 rounds from the 2 fight series were this was the case.

Posted November 11, 2012 1:46 pm 


Mr Rubes

If you want to know about holding look at any of the fights Lewis had with blown up cruiserweight, and not particularly hard puncher Holyfield, particularly the first fight. Lewis holds EXCESSIVELY from round 1 to round 12, particularly in the first fight if I remember, you biased brit

Posted November 11, 2012 1:41 pm 


Mr Rubes

Note the conspiracy theory (bribing) that meh just had to include. LOL. See what I mean! But actually, my monitor calculates that his post was 3.5 lines in length. This is the equivalent of a short story by meh standards! Well done meh…you are at least improving in some regards, but in others unfortunately I feel you are beyond repair ;)

Posted November 11, 2012 1:39 pm 


Mr Rubes

But this is the pattern of meh- He will throw out a derogatory line here, a 2 line conspiracy theory there. And that’s meh. Sredmond’s loyal ever side-kick. If I was Sredmond I would actually be embarrassed having this meh of all people attempting to support the Klitschko hate campaign with his absolute laughable non-sense.

Posted November 11, 2012 1:30 pm 


Mr Rubes

meh “In general” is right. And “in general” when a rematch is ORDERED by the sanctioning body, when the guy you “beat” is still kept as mandatory, when the so-called “winner” is booed and is behind on all the scorecards having collapsed on his stool in the final round, then “in general” the so-called winner wasn’t convincing at all, you biased, British idiot.

Posted November 11, 2012 1:27 pm 


BEARS

Meh- I agree generally that’s the case. Most would agree that wasn’t the case that night. Everyone in the hbo telecast immediately said so

Posted November 11, 2012 1:24 pm 


REM

It was nice to c Wlad showcase his great athleticism at that size against sumone his size. Hes actually faster than i thought.

Posted November 11, 2012 1:03 pm 


BEARS

Lennox lewis didn do well against vitaly. When u have pro analysts merchant, rafael, foreman, lampley saying vitaly “won” the event that can’t be construed as “good” for lennox. At best lennox did good enough to warrant a rematch

Posted November 11, 2012 1:02 pm 


Zzt

Sredmond , wlad has ross purity, other ATG have jimmy young, kevin mmcbride, buster douglas, danny williams, hassim “son of maskaev” rahman, oliver mccal. You need to get a life and stop talking to yourself .

Posted November 11, 2012 12:56 pm 


BEARS

Yes pitbull its been awhile but were all back. Things are great for me and I hope they are for u2

Posted November 11, 2012 12:54 pm 


PitBull Petrill

Red, I have to disagree with you: Wlad’s refusal to fight Vitali ( and vice versa) will not be viewed as a stain on either of their C.V.’s Familial contstarints gives them a pass IMO.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:45 pm 


PitBull Petrill

SRedmond, Tark, and Bears… its been a while and I hope you guys are doing well.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:39 pm 


huckster

Mariusz “Iron Chin” WACH!

Posted November 11, 2012 12:39 pm 


PitBull Petrill

Maybe once Wlad gets close to or breaks the record for title defenses set by the great Joe Louis, will people finally start to respect this ATG.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:35 pm 


SREDMOND

Reem, you said “guys at the top were losing to eachother” thats because they were ACTUALLY fighting and not saying “he’s my brother” or cowering and waiting for retirement like Povetkin to fight the big dogs… That is ANOTHER stain on the Klit name accident of birth or NOT, they have NEVER had to face the BEST man of their time… Instead of Vitali, Wlad has been able to fight Wach, Mormeck, Thompson, Austin and everyone else but the easily accepted 2nd best…. Vitali had to face Peter, Sosnowski, Adamek, Chisora and Johnson instead of Wlad….Can we at least acknowledge the achievement gap in these fighters??? Lewis fought Holyfield, Ali fought Frazier, Lewis fought Klitschko, Frazier fought Ali and Foreman, Foreman fought Ali, Norton, and Frazier… Who is the BEST fighter the Klits ever lifted a belt from???? Reality is that there is a stiff defining test they will never take and they will also NEVER get credit for…

Posted November 11, 2012 12:21 pm 


SREDMOND

Reem, why did Wlad have to be seasoned and dominating NOT to get knocked out by a BUM like Purrity who had booked 13 losses??? Ali was a 21 or 22 year old guy put in the ring with the legit HW Champ of the World Sonny Liston who was supposed to kill him and INSTEAD he stopped Liston twice….Do we have to listen to the “seasoning” argument for Sanders and Brewster too?? Wlad turn around has been terrific but if the formula for being successful was being vulnerable to underdogs for 45 fights then how many guys would be Champions of note??? Sam Peter was putting him down during fight #48 which was Wlads crossroads moment as a boxer….

Posted November 11, 2012 12:15 pm 


SREDMOND

Reem of course you want to marginalize ALL of boxing PRIOR to the Klitschkos because the established metrics for Greatness don’t incorporate them in some regards ie beating another acknowledged Great or historically significant boxer…Like I said I think Wlad Klits is a HARD night for most guys in history that said he has been plying his trade against weak comp for the past two years…. Thats why you guys are creating false resumes and accolades for fighters like Wach that NO ONE was discussing before Wlad called him out of the meat locker… You will do the same if another poorly vetted opponent is sent out to slaughter…I like Wlads aggression and I wish he fought like that all the time but Wach made thing easy, he was just a BIGGER, SLOWER, flat footed target for a far more talented boxer to tee off on…

Posted November 11, 2012 12:10 pm 


BEARS

Its irrelevant right now who wach would’ve beaten of the 60s and 70s

Posted November 11, 2012 11:48 am 


Ruskull

Thw writer musta been watching a different fight. The fight I saw Wlad attacked and landed practically at will. He also tried to close the show but it would appear Wach’s chin is made of granite. It wasn’t for a lack of “killer instinct” as the writer explains…………..

Posted November 11, 2012 11:38 am 


Germany calling

This gets better by the minute.I watched the Ekland Witherspoon fight for the first time since seeing in live.I watched it on YouTube of course.Eklund never out boxed Witherspoon,and so I have to correct myself again.Let me just say this to those of you over sixty years of age.Go back and verify what you post on the old fights.Frankly I’m shocked at my fading memory.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:20 am 


BEARS

Lol! Throw frazier norton liston and foreman into this era and I don’t think we have to wonder what would happen to these guys. They would get smoked by theklitschkos. Some would be cruiser weights not even heavyweights. Then your talking about pretty muh local boxing contests among americans not global samples like we have now. Sorry dude but those guys in the grand scheme of things were not all that great because they cycled through eachother. Sory I don’t buy that. Then the copout “they were hall of famers and ali beat 7-9 of them” just laughable. As though calling the local american boxing contests hof’ers somehow makes them greater than todays fighters. As I said juxtapose those fightrs to today and who among them would thrive? My money would be on klitschkos and lennox and contenders from this era and even the90s would smoke many of the goldon era boxers. I don’t think any would get past the klitschkos including ali

Posted November 11, 2012 11:20 am 


Germany calling

Disregard my comment on Witherspoon and the plodder,he one punched both Eklund,and Bruno,and both seemed to outbox him.Got my boxers mixed up,the plodder was Eklund,but Bruno is the one that took Witherspoon to the middle rounds.The Internet both helps verify facts quickly,as well as verify the the fact that you might be getting too old to argue boxing.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:12 am 


Mr Rubes

This HOF argument is ridiculous. First of all it’s an American institution which was founded in 1989 I believe. Before then the term “hof” did not even exist! Who would the likes of Norton and Fraizer be if the american hof instituation didn’t exist? No “hof” monikor to stick after their names? And when you have heavyweights in there like Jim Braddock who retired with over 20 losses (and before even winning the title I think already had over 10 losses…but he had a nice personal life story…) Ingemar Johansson who only ever made ONE defense of the heavyweight title…Rocky Balboa… what good is the hof anyway? Well for Klitschko haters like Sredmond it is a fantastic tool, because it is probably the ONLY stick they can try use to beat the Klitschkos with. What hofs have the Klitschkos beaten?” Pathetic.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:06 am 


Germany calling

To anon,no I was referring to Witherspoons one punch KO of the Swede Anders Eklund.

Posted November 11, 2012 11:02 am 


SREDMOND

So your argument is that Wach is a Good opponent because YOU think he would have beat Leon Spinks?? He might have beat Ross Purrity also does that define his as GREAT? As you know Purrity retired with 20 losses and he knocked Wlad out when he had 13 losses…. At least Spinks was undefeated when he upset Ali on points at the end of his career, a loss that was later avenged…. Purrity was ALWAYS a bum he got stopped in his second fight I believe….BLAM!

Posted November 11, 2012 10:58 am 


SREDMOND

Reem, at 36 Ali had already beat 7- 9 HOF level opponents and engaged in epic fights with Frazier 3 times, Norton 3 times, Foreman one time, Liston twice… Wlad has NEVER beat a high level HOF competitor….By the time he was 36 Wlad Klits had been TKOEd 3 times by nobodies, Ali had NEVER been stopped till 2 years later…..How long did it take for Wlad to become a World Champion?? not the weak ass WBO?? Wlad has STILL not fought the second best guy of his ERA (his bro)… Pick your jaw up off the ground man LOL

Posted November 11, 2012 10:55 am 


Germany calling

Really how much different is Wach to a Primo Carnera?
There were moments in the history of boxing where a guy like Wach would be world champion.
Wach came very close several times with those shots,other heavyweights don’t move like Vladimir.
I hope to see Wach again,his face alone reminds me of fighters from the fifties.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:53 am 


SREDMOND

Reem, if you think that Wach is “so good” then why are you comparing him to a fighter that you think is SO bad??? Clearly you don’t think much of him and your tactic is to find other weak foes to justify your position… Wach was simply a very unskilled boxer in my estimation and the odds reflected that….

Posted November 11, 2012 10:44 am 


SREDMOND

Sorry Reem HW boxing from the past is NOT going to be vacated because the Klits are bigger now… Are we going to vacate thier accomplishements if boxers of the future are 7″6 and weigh 325 pounds routinely? Former Laker Guard Jerry West is not being taken out of the HOF because Lebron can play guard at 6″8 250…. The attempts to piss on a history that the Klits actually respect betrays the insecurity you have with their own standing and accomplishments…. It seems you want to pretend that the HW division became legit when Wlad stopped getting knocked out and Vitali stopped quitting?? :)

Posted November 11, 2012 10:41 am 


SREDMOND

The Klits cannot become GREAT by trying to roll back the clock and position themselves into the past… Reality is that the WORST opponents of the past are NOT going to help the Klits in the future… Other fighers faced GREAT boxers and prevailed, Klit fans know this and thats why they spent their time trying to salvage a moral victory for Vitali Klits against Lennox Lewis…. There is a quality GAP on the upper end of their resumes that breeds questions, all fighters face some less than stellar comp but when your BEST wins are over guys who cannot be considered more than Good it mitigates your historical standing… IE A win against Lewis for Vitali would have been worth 15 Wach or Charr types in the Klitschko stable…. Thats how boxing works!

Posted November 11, 2012 10:38 am 


Mr Rubes

Somebody needs to correct boxrec. Wladimir currently has 51 career KOs but boxrec state he only has 50

Posted November 11, 2012 10:35 am 


SREDMOND

Reem, if you think that Wach is a terrific World Class fighter then you are lying to yourself… The guys record is loaded with weak comp and his ability was totally unimpressive… He is SLOW beyond reason and he does not even use his height well…The ONLY reason you want to build him is to build Klitschko who has a terrific record but alas guys like this are pedestrian wins…

Posted November 11, 2012 10:34 am 


SREDMOND

Reem, get real the Klits are part of HW history they did not create nor do the define the division beyond this particular era… They failed to make a splash when the old guard was around that’s a fine point that TRUE boxing fans are well aware of… They are professional and dangerous, Wlad has a much better record than Vitali and he is still marching along, his right hand is one of the best in history but he needs BETTER opponents or there will always be questions… He does not have to lose to be Great but beating up guys who are not a threat, or have only been beating fodder is going to be met with the crooked eye…. They will NEVER render the Alis, Foremans, Fraziers, Holmes and Marcianos irrelevant…. Anymore than the next generation of Quarterbacks made those from the past disappear from historical relevance…

Posted November 11, 2012 10:31 am 


Unbiased Dane

Mo-box said ”Damn, this was painful to see how Wlad danced circles around him and beating the crap out of him with superheavy firepower. Scary.”
i agree, the former hw boxer and commentator Luan Krasniqi said on german tv it was so painfull to watch the punishment Wach received that he at times had to look away.
Wach would be a difficult opponent for eny top fighter.

Posted November 11, 2012 10:28 am 


SREDMOND

Adrian where do I say that Haye is the only world ranked opponent that Klits fought?? My point is that Wach was NOT and Mormeck and Thompson II were 2 (40) year old easy kills… Wlads last 3 opponents were NO HOPERS which differs from from a guy who has something more than a punchers chance… Wach was not an old man last the last two opponents but he has had 0 success vs ranked higher level competition…Trying to build him off Tye Fields and a dead man like Mcbride is not gonna work…. Wlad is carving out a serious legacy that cannot be denied but he needs to find some better fighters to beat at this poin…

Posted November 11, 2012 10:21 am 


SREDMOND

David Haye had too much ability to stand there and take flush shots from Wlad, he was WAY too economical with his own offense and he has been rightly slated for that but Wachs defense was TERRIBLE… He had similar stature to Wlad and simply stood flat footed and ate shots with no ability to block, adjust or maintain distance…Frankly I saw very little ability from Wach at a world level…. Guys like Pulev or Mitchell would kill him…

Posted November 11, 2012 10:12 am 


SREDMOND

Adrian, where do I say that Haye was Wlads best opponent?? Honestly at HW that is hard to nail down, he could not punch as well buy Chris Byrd did more at HW than Haye has… My point was that Wach was NOT a World Class fighter on any level and Wlad was supposed to look good agains him?? Are Wlads skills and power real? Of course they are but guys like Wach are simply too far beneath him to give an accurate gauge as to how good he is… Getting excited because the guy can take shots is not a marker of ability its a marker of toughness… His ability to land punches was non-existent because he is too damn slow and thats just obvious… Wach looked VERY much like an amateur fighter from the first round to the last….

Posted November 11, 2012 10:06 am 


Anonymous

I want a American champ, Ive been critical of Wladimar, but ive run out of criticisms. Wach was so concerned about all the bombs from evey kind of punch he was rendered unable to punch and it went on for 12 rounds. Yes we are witnessing a great all-around heavyweight that just doesnt happen to be American. LOOK AT THE ARENA, HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING IS THRIVING.

Posted November 11, 2012 9:50 am 


BEARS

Reem- great link, great site. Awesome read about the total beast wlad klitschko. Clearly a way better ko machine then foreman or tyson. Again awesome read on that link. To think foreman had only 3 ko’s at championship level. Foreman didn’t fiht many championship fghts or hold the titles very long. Then I like how formeman was one of the tallest and biggest fighters of the goldon era and they show him next to a klitschko. Great read no wonder foreman openly says the klitschkos are better than himself

Posted November 11, 2012 9:27 am 


Anonymous

@Germany calling sorry if someone has replied already but do you mean Frank Bruno when you refer to a slow plodding fighter that Witherspoon fought? regards Wlad I have to say he is so quick on his feet for a HW, at times he reminded me of RJJ with his hands low and fast left hook, I have never been a massive Klit fan but perhaps it is time we all acknowledge them for the fighters that they are, I still don’t rate them above Lewis nor then below Lewis and I think Tyson with his prime style still gives all the HW’s past and present nightmares, never judge a fighter on their worst performances! but Wlad so light on his feet, and Wach actually looked better than I thought he would, give him some credit, he looked better than Haye who didn’t come to fight, Haye would have been out if he took the shots Wach did.

Posted November 11, 2012 9:11 am 


christov

Like i said before the fight,this would be like Superman vs Frankensteins Monster with a hangover…an embarrassment….wach looks like some bouncer they paid some cash to step in the ring for the first time….Wlad is a very good HW but this just proves nothing,other than Wlad took a bum to school….he could have been all over Wach in the first couple of rounds like Lewis vs Golota abd had him outta there….Wlad needs to to start finding opponents than this or his legacy start to diminish…

Posted November 11, 2012 8:31 am 


Anonymous

Its time for Price vrs vlad, I honestly think Price is ready for vlad!

Posted November 11, 2012 8:03 am 


Anonymous

99% of HW boxers are punchbags to Wladimir…..

Posted November 11, 2012 7:57 am 


Adrian

Also I agree compering wach with forman is really silly , but klit haters below started first by compering formans punching power against wlad ..let’s stop compering stuff like that. Klitchko really shined yesterday and I can see only one guy that could threaten him and that is David price.. But we might never see that fight happen I wish we do

Posted November 11, 2012 7:33 am 


Adrian

Sredmond@ so your view is that klitchko best opponent so far was haye and who was ranked?? What about guys like Byrd ,chagaev,ibrahimov,peters?? You can’t tell me those guys I mentioned are weaker than haye?? You know all too well that these guys were either better or just as good as haye… And what was a problem for haye against klitchko?? A toe? A bad night? Too be fair to you klitchko to was very conservative against haye and respected him way to much but to say he was the only one ranked that klitchko fought, now that is laughable !

Posted November 11, 2012 7:23 am 


Neil(pomy)

I have critised Wlad a lot in the past but that was a a very good performance against a game opponent.

Posted November 11, 2012 7:15 am 


Neil(pomy)

good performance i thought. Wach did ok and even hurt Wladimir but was well outboxed. One of Wlads better displays. Workrate was good and the clinching wasnt OTT.

Posted November 11, 2012 7:12 am 


kth

klitschkos = zzzz zzzz,

Posted November 11, 2012 7:00 am 


Germany calling

Sorry I meant Young,not Ellis,and those typos were regrettable.I can only hope that one day my IPad will have a feature that recognises the writers declining writing skills.

Posted November 11, 2012 6:59 am 


Germany calling

And before I get attacked by all the Forman supporters,let me say that Inloved watching Forman fight,and he was a great fighter.The problem with Forman was simple.Forman would walk his opponents down,due to his size and power.Lyle,and Ellis were both big fighters that could punch,but neither had Vladimirs legs,size or endurance.And let’s not forget,Forman was slow,lacked endurance,and had almost no defensive skills.If Lyle could so easily hit,and drop Forman,then Vladimir would too.Formans best hopes would be to land a lucky punch,but as we knew about Forman,those chance quickly faded past the fifth round.

Posted November 11, 2012 6:51 am 


robbo

wlad is just awful to watch, the heavywieght divison sucks ass, i can’t wait till he retires

Posted November 11, 2012 6:38 am 


SREDMOND

Adrian you can start building a world class fighter by beating some ranked guys or don’t you knowt he process my friend?? I have the SAME critique of Tony Thompson and Chris Arreola they have been around for YEARs and never booked a win over a guy who was ranked in the Top 10… Part of the reason the Klits opponents generate very little respect at times is because they have not even fought the relevant guys who are around today.. Hate or love him at least Chisora was not afraid to face Fury, Helenius (who he should have got a W against) and Vitali before Haye crushed him…. Wach and Charr literally came out of a cracker jack box and we are supposed to laud them as terrific fighters??? Naw they were easy kills who lacked appropriate experience before facing a Klit hence the 15-1 odds….

Posted November 11, 2012 6:22 am 


SREDMOND

Adrian you compare Haye and Wachs peformance but the reality is that Wlad was not NEARLY as aggressive with Haye because Haye is FAR faster, more exposive and 5X the athlete that Wach is…. I’m not a novice, Wach was EASY to avoid because he is so damn slow and he hardly let his hands go… Pretending that he was more dangerous than Haye overall is nonsense… Haye was super economical and Wlad did not try to press him till round 12 because he did not want to risk getting hit with a fast counter… Against Wach Klits saw a guy who was unusually slow and he was more comfortable teeing off on a guy who had 0 foot and handspeed… I’m gonna be honest Wach was terrible I don’t want to see that guy fight again….If you think his handspeed is even decent its laughable

Posted November 11, 2012 6:14 am 


doc

I am not a Klit hater per se, and have been fortunate (being an American living in Europe) to actually watch many of their fights live (i.e. Wlad/ Brewster II, Wlad/Chagaev, Wlad/Chambers, Wlad/Haye, Vitali/Solis)….great shows! The issue I have (similar to Sredmond) is that so many of the ESB posters go ballistic when anyone says something negative against the Klits, and especially something negative against their level of opposition. Is it their fault that the “level of opposition” is awful?… Of course not. But to suggest that Wach could have beaten Foreman, an Olympic gold medalist, who had a monster jab and devastating power, is just plain absurd!
While watching the post fight analysis on SKY TV, Tim Witherspoon summed up the current state of boxing perfectly by saying (and I paraphrase): “Boxing is like art, and unfortunately today’s fighters have not been taught how to paint the whole picture”. Basically he was refering to the fact that guys today have…. no inside fighting skills… don’t know how properly use the jab… don’t know how to move their head and counter…. don’t know how to throw combinations…. don’t know how to finish a guy when he is in trouble… etc. etc. Witherspoon was very respectful of the Klits and boxers in general, but was just stating fact.

Posted November 11, 2012 6:14 am 


SREDMOND

Wlad is a terrific fighter and thats evident but his opponent tonight ONLY tested how much punishment Wlads hands could take and thats it… Wach moved like he had cement in his shoes and in his gloves… There are plenty of fighters who would have an easy night with a guy this slow who’s technique is so damn bad… Pretend as you might he was a massive threat but thats just not the case…It would be nice for a guy with some proven talent to get in there with Wlad at this point and fight (win or lose) Wach was given no shot from the get go and his lack of athletic talent and craft were evident… There is a reason this guy was NOT ranked prior to this fight being announced

Posted November 11, 2012 6:08 am 


SREDMOND

Tark, you are showing you are an utter amateur, George Foremans record speaks for itself and he is WIDELY considered one of the Top 5 or Top 7 HW’s in the history of the sport… If you think getting put down by Jimmy Young or getting stopped once in 81 contests puts him BEHIND Wach in terms of chin and heart you are simply a MORON and totally not credible… Wach survived a night with Wlad, are the historic chins as well?? Wlad himself will NEVER be respected for his chin the way the likes of Ali, Foreman, Marciano or Holmes were….Why do I say that?? He let 3 guys stop him as a young fresh fighter… NOW you want to hype up his LESS than World Class opponent because he managed to stay up??? So did 9 or 10 other guys are we going to say they belong in the chin “HOF” Wach was a slow sitting duck and thats the end of it…

Posted November 11, 2012 6:01 am 


no clue

the best of Wlad i have EVER seen… amazing fluidity in punching and movement for a man his size and he put his punches together like a master… davastating power in each right hand and his jabbing was some of the best i have ever seen in the HW divsion .. Wlad did not panic in the 5th after being rocked with a right hand which showed he’s been taught how to cover up properly when staggered .. He looked and fought like a perfect boxing machine and if Wachs chin was not made of concrete he would have been out of their in the 6th. I used to blast Wlad in the past for various flaws but this time around he was the real deal

Posted November 11, 2012 5:51 am 


Dudadd

Wlad has shown once again he is a very uncommon super champion with great hand / foot speed, power and ability plus, even now at age 36. Furthermore Wladimir’s accomplished defensive skills allow him to be at the peak of his game while another champion of the past, Mulehammed Ali, was by now obviously past his best and showing glaring signs of decline and or fading in the skill and ability department at this age in his career. Great show last night in Hamburg once again revealing WK to be THE MAN in control of the heavyweight scene with plenty of years yet to come to rankle the Klitschko haters while Wladimir continues on and on with his winning ways for a number of more years.

Posted November 11, 2012 5:36 am 


Adrian

I would like to see fury vs wach but after tonight I don’t think furry will ever fight wach , wach would STop furry if they fight and than let’s hear klit haters mentio wach’s ranking..

Posted November 11, 2012 4:54 am 


Aurelio

SREDMOND doesn’t know s/hit about boxing.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:48 am 


uaboxer

Agreed. People will sooner or later realize that a quality champion like Klitschko is a rare one. He is a true champion, one who proves everything in the ring, and is in no need of trash talking. Haters will hate because they know that he’s great. They don’t want to admit that.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:26 am 


Mo-Box

My bad: “Having a decent chin is a good thing, but having a monster chin can leave you braindamaged!” Wlad boxed with an oak tree – absoltely nothig happes even if you punch it 10X with your best shots, maybe it just shakes a little but it’s still there :)

Posted November 11, 2012 4:13 am 


TARK

Sred says…., “Unlike Wlad, Foreman was not scared to get hit” …. Yes he was.. Foreman was scared to get up off the canvas—and he let a referee count him out.. Foreman wasn’t knocked out because he had his head OFF the canvas the entire time the referee was counting him out… When feather fisted Jimmy Young dropped Foreman, he sure looked scared he was going to get hit again… Let’s just say Wach absorbed much bigger punches from Wladimir than the one Young floored Foreman with.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:08 am 


Mo-Box

One thing for is is that Wach has a MONSTER CHIN not just visually but literally! Taking those kind of Wlad’s signature jabs, right-hands and left-hooks I’m sure even iron chinned Vitaly would had gone down in the mid-fight if not earlier.

Just silly how he ate those monster shots like no tomorrow. If I were in Wach’s corner I’d certainly thrown a white towel after 8-10th knowing he’s done and KOing Wlad with one shot is utterly nelglible and save the fighter from a possible braindamage. Or referee should have stopped it in 8th – can’t remember if he even warned Wach corner that he can’t allow to keep taking those powershots?

Damn, this was painful to see how Wlad danced circles around him and beating the crap out of him with superheavy firepower. Scary. This is no middleweight you know…

Having decent ching is a good thing, but having a monster chin can leave you braindamaged! I dear hope Mariusz doesn’t end up like Ali (who I’d argue also had that rare monster-chin, just was softened later in his career but still a monster chin)

Posted November 11, 2012 4:06 am 


vinniejones

Wach was terrible, but which Wlad-opponent did better job vs. him ? Diving-Haye? Brave-Mormeck? Wach took the punishment, but at least hit Wlad few times (there was actually a cut above Wlad’s left eye at the end of the fight- before, he was untouchable).
I’m not sure, if Fury, Helenius, Price would have done better against Wlad, although they are all better fighters tha Wach.

Posted November 11, 2012 4:02 am 


TARK

Cobb wasn’t as big, strong, or quick as Wach—and at least Wach landed one threatening right hand on Wladimir in the 5th while Cobb landed nothing on Holmes all night… This fight was more entertaining because some off the blows landed with sickening impact.. I was pretty sure Wach would go the distance, but it was interesting to see just how much he could take… He should get more fights just on his bravery… I would have pulled him out after the 8th, but it’s hard to do when a guy keeps trying so hard … Like I suspected, this fight was good, but the Helenius-Williams fight was terrible.

Posted November 11, 2012 3:32 am 


Anonymous

Had to watch the Holmes-Cobb fight after this.15 rounds Cobb kept applying presure kept throwing for the most part.Holmes not at his peak but put wild fast combos together on his feet moving very well.Yes you could see Holmes had a great trainer in Futch something lacking today…guys today lack going to the body like W.K. in this fight and no uppercuts good trainers are lacking today.Yes Wach took a good beating tonight didnt give up but stopped bring it to W.K. unlike Cobb in his fight.Havent seen Cobb-Holmes since 82 when it happened it was better then this fight tonight..a good fight to watch after this W.K. Wach fight.The problem with Wach was he was 32yrs old never fought a guy in the top 50 and it showed tonight a ageing club fighter who never stepped-up that the problem today.Fighters today are pushing 30 and never been in the ring with other young top fighters…that was unheard of in yesteryear.How are guys pushing 30 never fought top fighters lack experance lack ringmanship…because you dont get that by fighting cans until you get a title shot at 32 and then somehow become world class overnight.But this is what is going on today that is why many of todays fighters lack skill and ring knowledge. And it will only get worse as this becomes the norm.Todays hvwts, better then the knowledgeable ring tested fighters of the 60s-70s I dont see it.Yes the k-bros. arrived they had a great trainer(RIP) they worked their way up…but most of these guys today you can keep them all they want to do is protect their record and wait for a title shot…then when they get it the club fighter comes out in them and some you never hear from again…a weak era.

Posted November 11, 2012 3:14 am 


Anthony

Look diminutive rather?

Posted November 11, 2012 2:14 am 


Anthony

Reem- In what world is Foreman considered a midget? With the exception of the twin towers aka Klitschko’s or Wach who looks like he may have a touch of giantism, what other heavyweights fighting today make a prime Foreman look like diminutive?

Posted November 11, 2012 2:13 am 


Kid Blast

B Red :twisted:

Posted November 11, 2012 1:46 am 


Koolz

When I am watching a fight saying Ref stop the fight! Then obviously there is something that is making the fight need to be stopped.

Wlad won yes. But really in the 8th that was pretty much a TKO.

later guyz.

Posted November 11, 2012 1:32 am 


Adrian

Wlad maybe don’t hit harder than Forman but for sure he hits harder than Lenox Lewis :)

Posted November 11, 2012 1:28 am 


BEARS

im sure wlad could ko twelve 200 pounders in twelve months then go beyond george foreman and your saying that would count for something?

Posted November 11, 2012 1:23 am 


Adrian

Bears , dosent matter who Forman ko small or big knockouts are knockouts let’s be fair , let’s don’t forget he did ko michael morer in his old days too so that says a lot !

Posted November 11, 2012 1:15 am 


Reem

BEARS what these fellas are saying is almoust as ridiculous as saying the cavemans were smarter than the modern human lol

Posted November 11, 2012 1:14 am 


KL

Reem ……..you ARE kidding aren’t you………….WACH……….beating a prime Foreman & Frazier…………yeah I’m sure he’d beat Ali too!!!!!!

Posted November 11, 2012 1:12 am 


Adrian

Sredmond , of course wach was slow because as I said of HIS SIZE but he can catch klitchko much easier than small fast guys because of his reach just like he did in 5th round but his problem was that he didn’t let his hand go especially after the 8 th round … But you have to admit that klitchko is very fast for his size and thats why he can catch even guys who don’t want to engage with short reach (haye)
In other words klitchko is a complete heavyweight who would have been a nightmare to any heavyweight in the Past !

Posted November 11, 2012 1:07 am 


BEARS

reem-very true. antique athletics just dont measure up to modern day’s

Posted November 11, 2012 1:02 am 


Reem

man this site sucks, all the time they try to hide all the facts with which I own KL and sred

Posted November 11, 2012 1:00 am 


Reem

KL phlease those midgest would have no chance against Wach, not to speak Wlad. Boxing like all sports is evolving and nowadays Foreman & Frazier would be cannon fodder. How many olympic records from the 70′s still stand? That’s right NONE. It’s really ridicilous to think these one dimensional, chinny, weak, bad trained and without nutrition would stand any chance against todays giants.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:59 am 


victor

Wach in his first lost fight against Vladimir, did much better than Vladimir in any of his lost fights.
Wach has a chance later in a rematch. He has to beat more top class opponents first.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:59 am 


Adrian

Sredmond “you want to build up the cred of a guy who NEVER beat a World Class boxer in his life…”
Sredomond , who can become someone in heavyweight a “world class” if they don’t beat a klitchko ??
So how will you know if someone is truly a genuine haveyweight world class boxer and still loses to klitchko ?
Is it possible that klitchko is really a very good heavyweight ? What will it take for you to give klitchko credit?

Posted November 11, 2012 12:58 am 


BEARS

I dont think foremans power shots are more formidable than wlads personally. i think wlads more powerful and naturally what about 30 pounds heavier. foreman was fighting around 220 and wlad fights around 250

Posted November 11, 2012 12:55 am 


KL

Bears……….the reason I talked about Haye…….is to illustrate that Wlad whilst technically very good………isn’t necessarily the hardest hitter ever (Which is what you seem to be claiming if you think he hits harder than Foreman)
We aren’t talking “skill level”………I think I’ve already said Foreman wasn’t as technically as skill full as Wlad or Ali……… ….and that’s why Foreman got into such a ding dong battle with
Lyle.
Skill wise Wlad wins……..but power………Foreman wins all the way!

Posted November 11, 2012 12:52 am 


BEARS

emanuel steward complimented wlads speed all the time. i believe he said he was one of the fastest and faster than lennox. i cant remember but i remember the loads of praise emanuel put on wlads speed

Posted November 11, 2012 12:52 am 


SREDMOND

Adrian get real, Wach is SLOW, he was not in there with Mayweather or Pac Man.. Wlad is fast for a guy his size but he is not a speed demon… Wach was incredibly slow lets be honest about something… Whats your argument he has blazing handspeed???

Posted November 11, 2012 12:49 am 


SREDMOND

Face facts Wlad did NOT stop Haye and he did NOT stop Wach those are the facts, not every night is going to end in a KO… George Foreman is on another level as it pertains to stoppages and when his athleticism failed him his power bailed him out…He was OLD and fat still shaking and stopping younger men… He beat 75 men and ONLY 6 heard the final bell over a 20 year career…. Wlads a powerful puncher but George Foreman is synonymous with KO’s he would have slaughtered some of these guys the Klits extend 10 rounds…Peter would not have gone 6 round with Foreman… Unlike Wlad Foreman was not scared to get hit and thats an advantage for a guy who relys on power…

Posted November 11, 2012 12:48 am 


Adrian

Wach can’t be “Bruce lee ” guys because of his size and he looked slow because klitchko has an underrated speed , wlad dominates boxers with speed plus the devastating punches that he possess and with a supreeme ring generalship is very hard deal with !
Klitchko shined tonight

Posted November 11, 2012 12:47 am 


KL

Err someone that thinks Wach would have beaten a prime Foreman & a Prime Frazier is the REAL noob!!! LOL

Posted November 11, 2012 12:45 am 


BEARS

foreman was wide open. to see how skillless foreman looked at times and wide open just watch foreman vs lyle. foremanface planted. haye style matches up with wide open guys who swing from the rafters. foremans style may be good for haye. if ali could floor haye if lyle could floor him multiple times and make him face plant i dont see why haye could not

Posted November 11, 2012 12:43 am 


Reem

KL you must be a noob, if a boxer takes too much damage, his punch resistance deteriorates. Peter was never the same after the first Wlad fight.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:42 am 


BEARS

i think wlads a harder hitter than foreman. i was talking about wach not haye. haye did get shaken by wlad and officially knocked down. chisora tried running haye down you saw what happened. its all hypothetical. wlad didnt get a great deal of flush shots landed on haye. haye was running the whole time. with one punch wlad mushroom stamped hayes forhead. pretty powerful if you ask me

Posted November 11, 2012 12:41 am 


KL

Bears………..I’m pretty sure a prime Foreman could despatch David Haye……..If Foreman managed to land on his chin……….Wlad landed on Haye’s chin…….but didn’t wobble Haye……..now Wlad is a good correct puncher………but he’s no Foreman………… it doesn’t follow that if Wlad couldn’t KO him then Foreman wouldn’t be able to.
I recall Wlad not being able to KO Sam Peter first time out……….and yet the very same Sam Peter got bounced up and down like a yo yo by Jameel Mcline.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:37 am 


SREDMOND

Bears, his jaw is on par with Vitalis why??? He has been in with weak COMP absent Wlad his whole career.. You want to build up the cred of a guy who NEVER beat a World Class boxer in his life… This is typical because you need to garner more credit than what is due… Wlad did his job well against a WEAK, slow opponent who’s claim to fame is that he is BIG

Posted November 11, 2012 12:26 am 


SREDMOND

Wlad clearly beat the guy up but he did not stop him…Is it so painful not to accept the actual result as opposed to trying to slate the ref for giving Wlad a stoppage it was the right decision because Wach took his beating and survived…

Posted November 11, 2012 12:23 am 


SREDMOND

Reality is that your assertion was invalidated.. He survived and he kept going end of story… Wach did not seem to want out and he never hit the deck… AGAIN you are pissed because you wanted a stoppage Wlad did not earn… “Eyes Roll”

Posted November 11, 2012 12:20 am 


Anthony

Bears-How true, an impressive 20-2 record in world title fights.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:19 am 


Koolz

SREDMOND oh I Don’t know maybe because Wach wasn’t even defending himself(rolls eyes)

Posted November 11, 2012 12:15 am 


BEARS

i dont think foreman could knock wach out if wlad didnt. no way foreman hits harder than wlad. it makes no sense to say anyone could knock a guy out that has never been knocked out. you have no basis of comparison or evidence that a guy can be knocked out. for all we know wach has a vitaly jaw

Posted November 11, 2012 12:15 am 


BEARS

wlad is setting title defense records. those are the facts

Posted November 11, 2012 12:13 am 


KL

It was a competent display by Wlad, and Wach did well to survive such a one sided beat down………..but you know things are getting ridiculous when someone suggest Wach would have beaten a prime Foreman or Frazier!
In all likely hood this is probably Wach’s 15 minutes of fame…………he’s not a contender and his likely claim to fame is that he went the distance with Wlad.
They will STILL be talking about Foreman & Frazier 50 years from now………….Wach however would be lucky to get a mention in a pub quiz!

Posted November 11, 2012 12:11 am 


Anthony

KL- Good point. Foreman did chug forward early in his career with a lack of respect for his opponents punches, so he may just have steamrolled Wach in about four rounds. I could see that scenario playing out, especially if Wach couldn’t get his attention with a shot early to make Foreman think twice about coming in so recklessly.

Posted November 11, 2012 12:07 am 


SREDMOND

Why should it have been stopped in the 8th?? Because you guys want Wlad to record another stoppage? Wach stayed on his feet and he endured despite getting capped… Wlad did not stop him face facts and work from there… Always revisionists

Posted November 10, 2012 11:59 pm 


KL

Anthony you make some sound points, but I would also argue that Foreman & Wlad used totally different types of boxing to tag their opponent………Wlad very wary of getting hit back since his KO losses to Sanders & Brewster doesn’t take too many chances when attacking………..Foreman on the other hand would just steam roller through his opponent, believing that their punches would just bounce off him, which in most cases (aside from Lyle & Ali) was true.
So If Foreman was fighting Wach then I would fully expect Foreman to walk though Wach……..and probably stop him early ………most likely with the uppercut.
Foreman could get weary when fighting the likes of super resilient & super fast Ali……….but Wach was no Ali……..although Reem might try to persuade you otherwise!

Posted November 10, 2012 11:58 pm 


Anthony

Foreman and W.K have a different kinds of power. While W.K. is no doubt a big, strong, athletic man, his power comes from proper technique. His right hand is straight, he pivots his hip, and gets full extension. Foreman was heavy handed. He relied more on brute force and the bowling balls he was using for fists to knock people out. V.K’s power is generated somewhat like that, but not to the degree of power that Foreman could generate. Would Foreman have KO’d Wach? Maybe, but you have to remember that Foreman wasn’t always the most accurate puncher in his younger years, and would lose steam swing for the fences in the first half of his fights. W.K. is normally laser like accurate with his 1-2 combos, which allows his power shots to land more consistently. Either way, Wach’s chin must double as an anvil when he’s not fighting.

Posted November 10, 2012 11:41 pm 


Koolz

Listen this fight should have been a TKO in 8th round but the Ref was retarded and let it go.
TKO 8th round. Wach wans’t even defending himself on the ropes.
It should have been stopped but hey it wasn’t.

Posted November 10, 2012 11:36 pm 


KL

David Haye has good speed and power attacking skills when he employs them………but even Haye himself admits his chin is his weakest link at heavyweight……that’s most likely why he boxes so cagily against the bigger men like Wlad and Valuev………because he knows his chin won’t stand up too well against punches from the bigger men.
Now Wlad hit Haye with some pretty decent shots…….granted they weren’t the hardest punches Wlad has ever delivered but hard nonetheless……….but David Haye with his less than Mcall like chin stood up to Wlads punches well………..now Reem are you SERIOUSLY going to argue that Haye would be able shake off Foreman’s punches if they landed on his chin!!!LOL

Posted November 10, 2012 11:26 pm 


Anonymous

Foreman nor Frazier faced Shavers was thinking of Quarry..but both faced guys like Norton..Lyle..fighters who could stop guys with lesser chins…Foreman and Frazier glass chined..I think not.

Posted November 10, 2012 11:20 pm 


Anonymous

Foreman was stopped 1 in 81 fights and he had no chin..down right foolishness.Frazier was stopped 2 or 3 times in 40 fights both faced big punches..Holyfield..Morrison..Shavers..and to even mention Wach with these fighters is beyond reasoning.

Posted November 10, 2012 11:04 pm 


SREDMOND

Foreman won 75 professional fight and 68 of them by stoppage, spanning 2 decades… Foreman was a DEADLY puncher if he caught you stats say you were going out… Wach would not have taken his shots like that and I am a believer in Wlads power, it trumps Vitalis by plenty.. Foreman was knocking out prime Champions when he was 45 and deserved a win over Briggs when he was damn near 50….Wach would have been inside of a freezer waiting for autopsy if Foreman was landing those shots on him..

Posted November 10, 2012 11:01 pm 


SREDMOND

Wlads a historically HARD puncher but Foreman is a legit legend in that regard he stopped 68 fighters spanning more than 2 decades, he was winning the legit HW Championship via straightup KO at the age of 45 years old… His power was ridiculous he had Frazier stumbling around the ring like a crazed drunk and no one ever made Frazier look like that

Posted November 10, 2012 10:57 pm 


SREDMOND

Reem, you don’t know boxing and thats pretty clear Wlad was 45 fights into his career and still getting knocked out… Sorry but we cannot pass that off as youthful indiscretions.. Whatever improvements he has made are fine but he was WAY too seasoned to be getting crushed like that by Golfers and B level fighters like Sanders and Brewster

Posted November 10, 2012 10:55 pm 


KL

Foreman punched harder than Wlad no question………..Wlad is more technical and although can punch hard is not in the same league as a Prime Foreman……who Koed a prime Norton in 2…………I’m glad you think a “Prime” Foreman beat Moorer!
As for Foreman being “Chinny”……….he was no more chinny than Wlad!

Posted November 10, 2012 10:49 pm 


Anthony

Klitschko was gassed? I see we have some drama queens posting here. Klitschko’s energy level dropped after a sustained attack in the eighth. Being the smart professional that he is he then tempered his attack for the next couple rounds so he could finish strong down the stretch. It’s as simple as that.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:44 pm 


KL

Reem, I’m glad you think Foreman was in his Prime when he beat Moorer!
But yeah Foreman DEFINITELY hit harder than Wlad………….and you forgot his 2nd round KO of Norton.
As for Foreman being chinny………….no more “chinny than Wlad really!

Posted November 10, 2012 10:44 pm 


Reem

one must be really retarded to call the young and unexperienced pre steward wlad prime instead of the version that rules the division since like a decade

Posted November 10, 2012 10:43 pm 


Alonzo

Okay I hear what your saying now, Anon–he has been around a while–I remember he used to advertise in the Ring back in the mid-eighties. At any rate Good night.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:40 pm 


Reem

one must be really retarded to call the young, unexperienced, pre steward wlad prime instead of the version that is ruling the division since like a decade. good stuff

Posted November 10, 2012 10:38 pm 


Alonzo

If what I wrote makes any sense . . . . getting tired–one more time that chin legacy is interesting–Holmes thirteenth defense against Cobb in November history repeats.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:36 pm 


Reem

prime foreman hit harder than wlad? lol just because he stopped the chinny frazier and moorer? good stuff

Posted November 10, 2012 10:35 pm 


KL

Typo……I meant Foreman wouldn’t have any problems with Wach.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:34 pm 


Reem

so a young, unexperienced pre steward wlad was prime and not the version that rules the division since like a decade? good stuff

Posted November 10, 2012 10:34 pm 


KL

Reem a prime Foreman hit harder than Wlad……..sure Wlad the better technical boxer………..but a prime Foreman wouldn’t have cause too many problems for Wach…….Wach’s too slow and wouldn’t be too difficult even for Foreman to catch.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:33 pm 


Reem

this crazy ass site says duplicate staement although it wasnt posted. admin must be on crack too

Posted November 10, 2012 10:32 pm 


Reem

cant post again wtf

Posted November 10, 2012 10:31 pm 


B Red

Wach was tough, but hes an awful fighter. He is probably the worst fighter that ever challenged for aa world title.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:30 pm 


Anonymous

NO what I meant is that not everything Weldon says is gospel truth…but when you hear some of the crazy things other people say about the fight game he most likely just dosent want to bother with such nonsence people saying things that are just nuts.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:30 pm 


Reem

ya should put down the crack pipes, foreman was a one dimensional, slow and plodding slugger with such wide and wild punches that it looked like he learned his boxing on a farm. and he was chinny as hell

Posted November 10, 2012 10:28 pm 


Reem

man this crazy site wont let me post

Posted November 10, 2012 10:23 pm 


Reem

sred do you really wanna call the young, unexperienced, pre steward wlad prime instead of the version that is ruling the division since like a decade? lol that’s just too funny and same goes for foreman, this guy also got much better when he got older. he was a slow, plodding and chiny clubfighter when young and had so ridiculously wide and wild punches that it looked like he learned his boxing on a farm lulz

Posted November 10, 2012 10:23 pm 


Alonzo

Anon–So your saying he’d rather not associate with the other posters–I missunderstood–thought you mean’t he posted some magnanimous stuff then was embarrassed to post again.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:22 pm 


Alonzo

Wach looked a lot faster against other opposition–independent of Klit’s speed, so I wonder if he overtrained. Wouldn’t have made a difference.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:20 pm 


Anonymous

Dont agree with everything Weldon says…but to here some of the crap you hear on here its know wonder hes not around much…and the guy has done alot for boxing and overall knows his stuff it is his living afterall.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:18 pm 


Chip N Dale

Wow Wach has a chin…reminds me of Oliver McCall’s. He is a bit slow on his feet, but has size, power, endurance, and mental toughness…..He would give a lot of name fighters probs

Posted November 10, 2012 10:16 pm 


SREDMOND

I disagree with the author that Wlad was too cautious, he let his hands go for most of the bout and tried to get Wach out of there starting early…I do agree that Wach was utterly overmatched, hopeless and NOT a World Class fighter…. Lets be honest guys he was JUST big with a good chin

Posted November 10, 2012 10:15 pm 


Alonzo

Weldon really makes those claims? On another note, I’m still wondering how Banks is gonna do next week for a number one position (ironically against Vittles) after filling Mr. Steward’s shoes.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:14 pm 


The Kingslayer

If Wladimir would fight with malice like that more often I’d be a fan.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:14 pm 


KL

Reem………I had to double check your post about Wach beating a prime Foreman & prime Frazier………….as Mac would say “YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!”
Sure Wach stood up to Wlad’s punches……….which is no mean feat……..but Wlad is a technical boxer with good punch power………..Foreman, was a huge puncher who was able to put a lot of weight in his punches………..Wlads aren’t as powerful because they are unusually jabs or punches at range.
And Frazier would have worked over Wach body before unleashing his famous left hook.
Both a prime Foreman & Frazier would most likely have stopped Mr.Wach.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:13 pm 


Anonymous

Wach could now beat Foreman..smokin Joe..Ali..greatest hvwt. next to the k-bros….and you wonder why a expert like Weldon dont post on here anymore…lol.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:13 pm 


Reem

sred do you really wanna call the young, unexperienced, pre steward wlad prime instead of the version that is ruling the division since like a decade? LOL that’s just too funny and same goes for foreman, this guy also got much better when he got older. he was a slow, plodding and chiny clubfighter when yound. he had so ridiculously wide and wild punches that it looked like he learned his boxing on a farm lulz

Posted November 10, 2012 10:11 pm 


K-2-Fan

Kenny Weldon , is probably busy training those ten guys he says he knows that wolud knock out the ” Klitz ” as he calls him , in less than five rounds .

Posted November 10, 2012 10:10 pm 


Anonymous

Wlad should now be in top 3 pound for pound ratings. What a brilliant all around effort on a giant with a hell of a chin.

Posted November 10, 2012 10:07 pm 


SREDMOND

Wach was a 15-1 underdog because he was NO threat to Wlad absent the usual punchers chance… This guy was unusually slow, had terrible technique and completely lacked accuracy… Why the urge to build up a guy who offered NOTHING??? Because of course Klit fans need to pretend that Wach is a modern day legend so Wlad can look better…Klits is a seriously gifted athlete and hellified puncher but he has not been in the ring with the type of nemesis that is going to get him the dap you guys want to give… Wach does not even scratch the surface… Get real

Posted November 10, 2012 10:07 pm 


Reem

SREDMOND are you really that dumb? Do you want to call a very young, pre Steward Wlad prime instead of the version that is ruling the division since like a decade? LOL put down the crack pipe buddy and a young Foreman was also worse than the old version. His technique was so bad and punches so crazy wild and wide that he wouldn’t be even considered a club fighter

Posted November 10, 2012 10:06 pm 


SREDMOND

George Foreman could probably beat Wach NOW… Foreman was an OLD man taking it to a prime Shannon Briggs… Get real Wach is an embarassingly slow fighter with a solid chin and he is in the prime of a mans life… Wach and Foreman should not even be discussed on the same website its a joke…

Posted November 10, 2012 10:03 pm 


SREDMOND

Reem, you’re a genius how old was Foreman when he fought Axel Schulz and how old was Wlad when he faced him? George Foreman was still besting professional fighters as he approached 50 years old, Wlad beat Schulz when he was in the prime of his life your comparison will only play with the clueless…

Posted November 10, 2012 9:59 pm 


Reem

Anonymous nah, but you must be retarded. Foreman is by todays standards a club fighter. He had his hands full with freaking Axel Schulz, a guy that was DEMOLISHED by a much worse version of Wlad. Get your facts straight buddy. Wach would have killed the slow plodding and chinny Foreman.

Posted November 10, 2012 9:53 pm 


Alonzo

Yeah where is Kenny Weldon (not Wheldon)?

Posted November 10, 2012 9:53 pm 


Anonymous

Some of these doopey young kids on here need to go back and watch cartoons.Know wonder experts like Kenny Wheldon dont post on here anymore.

Posted November 10, 2012 9:43 pm 


Bax

Congrats to Wlad! I did not bother watching. Wach has the slowest laziest jab I have ever seen! Easy work for the champ.

Posted November 10, 2012 9:40 pm 


Anonymous

Reem…Are you fuc*kin retarded?A strong chin club fighter who resembles Cobb…would now beat great fighters like smokin Joe or G.Foreman…I knew the nut cases would come out sooner or later.

Posted November 10, 2012 9:40 pm 


puncher007

LOOK HERE NOW!! WLADIMER IS A GREAT CHAMPION AND THE PERFORMANCE TONIGHT WAS TOP NOTCH!! WACH IS A HUGE GUY WITH ONE HELL OF A CHIN!! DID YOU BLIND SISSIES SEE THOSE POWER SHOTS??? NOBODY ELSE WOULD HAVE STOOD UP TO THAT STUFF!!! LETS DONT FORGET THE GREAT EMANUEL STEWARD THE GREATEST TRAINER IN THE WORLD SHAPED WLAD FOR THE LAST DECADE ALMOST!!! IF YOU INSULT WLAD THATS AN INSULT TO BOXING!!! YOU JEALOUS LITTLE HATERS!!! THE MOST DOMINANT CHAMPION IN HISTORY LIKE IT OR NOT!!! ALSO ONE OF THE BEST KO % OF ANY OTHER CHAMPION!!! GO WATCH TENNIS YOU FRUITCAKES!!!

Posted November 10, 2012 9:33 pm 


Reem

What a retarded article, Wach was as fast as a prime Foreman and faster than the old Foreman. Wach would have killed Foreman, Frazier and some other of the past bums.

Posted November 10, 2012 9:31 pm 


Mr Rubes

I’m glad you enjoyed the fight adrian, as did I. And it was a dangerous fight for Wlad, you are right, with the physical attributes and one punch KO power Wach brought to the table. I am delighted Wlad handled the assignment in style though and I am also pleased he was hurt in the fifth and came back and dominated the next round. Wlad is answering questions during these types of showings, that his critics often fire upon him like “no chin” “no stamina” “only fights small blown up cruiserweights/old men” and so on. What are they saying now? More performances like this and not even the Sredmond’s of the world will have anything to offer ;)

Posted November 10, 2012 9:09 pm 


adrian

ok mr.rubes i did enjoy the fight a lot it was a good fight to watch and i knew it it will be a good fight because when klitchko fight a tall fighter he can really give us a great fight guarantee because he dont have to chase opponents all over the ring (like haye) and can fight in the middle of the ring and show his arsenal but that is also very dangerous for wlad because of the more work he has to do with a big fighetrs especialy the ones who can take the puch like wach tonight but wach problem was his offense he didnt attack

Posted November 10, 2012 9:02 pm 


Mr Rubes

adrian if Wach had of gone all out in the 9th, maybe the Pole would have been stopped. Maybe not. But one thing I am more than sure of, NO WAY would he have stopped Wlad. Wlad was NOT gassed at all! He eased off the gas to pace himself but was as aware still and as focused as he was in round one. That was too obvious. But we differ on our opinions here obviously. You saw a gassed fighter, I did not in the slightest. So that’s okay too ;) I hope you enjoyed the fight, I did ;)

Posted November 10, 2012 8:54 pm 


adrian

total rubish??? lol i know what happen in the ring ,klitchko almost finished wach in round 8 and went all out his mouth was WIDE OPEN look at the fight again and my point is wach didnt attack in round 9 if he had gone all out wlad would have been in trouble or wach would have get stopped but that was really a good cahnce for wach too do something .

Posted November 10, 2012 8:51 pm 


adrian

tonight klitchko fought the most dagerous opponent styles wise for him , he fought a guy who is tall in good condition and can take a hell of a beating and can punch , this is the most impressive win of klitchko for me so far

Posted November 10, 2012 8:46 pm 


Mr Rubes

Well my friend, we were watching a very different fight so. A “gassed” fighter usually has his mouth wide open, his coordination in bad order, is holding on every chance and so on. Wlad eased off a bit in the 9th, and a little in the 10th but STILL controlled the tempo easy, pushing Wach on the backfoot and winning the rounds easy. To an educated observer, Wlad was conserving his energy for a final assault (he is experienced now and knows how to pace). And a final assault he did. But to say Wlad appeared “gassed” at ANY stage in the fight is total rubbish.

Posted November 10, 2012 8:45 pm 


120-107

TOTAL DOMINATION!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:43 pm 


adrian

yes klitchko fought like a lion in the “last couple of rounds” but not in rounds 8 and 9 ask yourself why is that? because he was really tired and wach was hurt but not spent he should have not let klitchko get a breather in round 9!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:42 pm 


adrian

mr.rubes, well my friend i am the biggest wlad fan and wlad fough an exelent fight but go back and watch the fight again and see what i am saying, klitchko was all gased out in round 9 and 10 wach only chance was too attack in those too rounds but he just stood there and gave klitchko a breather if thats and thats is 100% fact what i just said and you can laugh all you want but those are facts my friend!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:39 pm 


Mr Rubes

Were was the Killer instinct of Lennox Lewis, Alonzo, when he fought Tua, a man he was a foot taller than? And many others too. As they say “haters will hate” LOL ;)

Posted November 10, 2012 8:36 pm 


Mr Rubes

adrian that is one of the most ignorant comments I have read. HOW were you “close” with your prediction? LOL. Wladimir fought like a lion in the last couple of rounds, if you think that is “gassed” then follow a different sport my friend :P

Posted November 10, 2012 8:34 pm 


Alonzo

For those who say it was lack of killer instinct–I suppose Ali and Holmes and Tyson didn’t have killer instinct due to inability to stop Chuvalo, Cobb, and Razor Ruddock.

Posted November 10, 2012 8:32 pm 


Mr Rubes

Terrible biased Article. By the way, I thought Wlad looked fantastic tonight. So nimble on his feet and free-flowing. He was rocked and then came right back in the next round. Unlucky not to finish it in the 8th I believe it was. Showed great stamina all the way to finish. Other than not getting the stoppage, I would almost call this a flawless display. Well done Wlad.

Posted November 10, 2012 8:32 pm 


Lat

He dominates big tall fighters,too!! Wlad is the best!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:31 pm 


adrian

i said this last night here in esb”wlad should ko wach early if somehow wach survives early rounds wlad might get gased out in the late rounds(just like with ross purity) because he has to work much more than he used too due to wach size “i was close with my predition wasnt i? wach mistake was that he didnt go all out in round 9 because even though wach was hurt in round 8 wlad was much more tired in round 9 because of work he did in round 8 thats why klitchko didnt attack in round 9 and 10 because he was gased out and wach should have gone all or nothing in round 9!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:30 pm 


Alonzo

And yet more irony beyond that of the Jonathan Banks deal–Tex Cobb (whom I’ve been comparing this fight to all night) was Larry’s 13th title defense–Same time of year too!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:28 pm 


Alonzo

okay so Jonathan Banks takes over Manny Stewards training job, just to have to turn around and face an unbeaten Seth Mitchell next week? Seems unfair. Also if he wins he will most likely fight the brother of the guy he’s been training. Oh the irony!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:26 pm 


Boxtradamus

I predicted that Wlad would WIN on the DAY that the Fight was first announced!! I am the GREATEST Fight Prophet ever born!!!

Posted November 10, 2012 8:03 pm 


Swedish Boxing Fan

Wow, what an unexpected well done fight! Congratulations to the still unified, lineal and undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, Wladimir Klitschko (59-3-0 KO’s 51) who made his 13th sucsessfull world title defence and is still the best heavyweight in the world rank. His now former undefeated challanger Mariusz “The Viking” Wach (27-1-0 KO,s 15) made his entrance to the ring as an big underdog with few if non expecations to make an impressive mark to the fight suprisingly made an brave effort against the dominant world heavyweight champion Wladimir. Wach was there with his lumber right hand but had trouble firing it off as Wladim ir was well aware of his opponents best weapon and Wach had to take beating after beating from the champ but I must say this that I give Mariusz Wach lot of credit for his effort in this fight. He fought bravly and absorbed lots of heavy punches from Wladimir but still made it to go on and fight and the polish viking Wach have now proved himself to the boxing world as an worthy opponent and is worth more top oppertunitys in the ring. things seems to sadly not be that any more in boxing and thats sad. Well this was a good fight and once again I congratulate Wladimir Klitschko for another voctory and his 13th title defence in a row.

Posted November 10, 2012 8:00 pm 


boxingnut76

i agree… Wlad did not want to punch himself out.. plus its hard to get a guy out who has a great chin and plays it safe..

Posted November 10, 2012 7:57 pm 


Boxfan

Wlad threw over 80 punches in round 8 and Wach didn’t go down, It’s not a lack of killer instinct, it’s that Wach was simply not going down. I think Wlad was afraid of punching himself out at the end of that round, and honestly, I don’t blame him. Who, in the last 10 years, has stood in front of Wladimir and eaten punches like that? NOBODY.

Posted November 10, 2012 7:54 pm 


uppercut

meaningless fight opponent no one ever heard off just another punching imo non british fight in europe just straight boring

Posted November 10, 2012 7:52 pm 


Anonymous

“Wladimir looked okay but he lacked the killer instinct as he played it safe in the last quarter of the fight”

Posted November 10, 2012 7:46 pm 


boxingnut76

With the exception of taking a hard shot in the fifth ( did a good job not getting caught with the follow up) he looked great. Its not his fault that Wach has a chin ( runs in the family, his dad has a giant one too lol). My honest opinion is of a great performance, but .. every fighter over 35 seems to get this.. did not have enough energy to close the show. If Wlad would walk away now, no one could blame him.

Posted November 10, 2012 7:45 pm 


knowall

Easy win against another poor klit opponent. Wach a human punch bag. Well done to wlad but he never broke a sweat

Posted November 10, 2012 7:38 pm 


adrian

somehow mr.smith every klit opponent fail to impress,short tall,fat,lean etc…but the question is how did wlad look?

Posted November 10, 2012 7:37 pm 



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Wladimir Klitschko dominates Wach









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