So, How is Area 51 this time of year?Posted December 12, 2012 6:58 pm
i disagree with it not being planned. i think he went in to the fight with the minset of taking some shots and hoping he didnt get ko’d himself. i mean he stepped back calmly slight dip to the left pac threw the same right they he had just hurt him with it was a perfect storm. i dont know if any peds involved but i do think if any version of jmm hits pac with that punch its still lights outPosted December 12, 2012 12:12 pm
Great Article. Thank You. :) You make a lot of good points. I’m glad I got into boxing some years ago, and have a better overall understanding of the sport. It does make me sick to hear what sports radio host comments, right after the fight showing how dumb they really are, as well as the network loudmouths who talk about 2-4 fighters a year mostly before PPV events only…. And quite often they disparage any new fighter they haven’t heard of before in the the PPV mix. why? Because they never followed the sport, and fighters coming up, until they hit PPVPosted December 12, 2012 11:03 am
“When the Pactards bring up Angel and his affiliation to PED’s—- They somehow forget to mention that both Freddy Roach and Alex Ariza have been caught giving their athletes PED’s..”
Try getting it through these 2faced sheeps thick skulls lol.Kharma is biting them in the @ss let em keep talking though & see who really gets caught.Pactards speak out their @ss & assume all their bs is facts, that’s the funniest part lol.Posted December 12, 2012 1:32 am
there are a lot of whining ass titty babies here, thats all, don’t worry about the drugs.Posted December 12, 2012 12:40 am
I’m not making excuses, I’m not a Pac fanboy. I’m simply stating facts as an objective observer. Watch the Clottey & Margarito fights & count how many times PAc turned to the ref to step in & call a halt. Count how many fick-jabs Manny threw from the 10th round on against Margarito. All his flurries from then on were on Margarito’s body. He couldn’t catch Mosley because Mosley ran after he got decked in the 3rd. And finally, when was the last time Marquez got stopped? Pac battered Cotto worse than Margarito did with loaded gloves, and turned around & hammered Margarito the with the worst beating of his career to include his campaigns at 154. Nobody else flattened Hatton the way Pac did at 140 or 47.Posted December 12, 2012 12:18 am
Guillermo Enrique Pérez Germán
thanks!Posted December 11, 2012 9:30 pm
Thanks for reading, Guillermo!Posted December 11, 2012 7:09 pm
Way too many words, time, and energy being wasted on the PEDs argument. Nothing will come of any of it–whether you’re pro or con–unless Pacquiao and/or Marquez are proven to have used them. What say we move on to the next fight?Posted December 11, 2012 6:54 pm
Berto is a confirmed PED user, same as Peterson, don’t mention them.Posted December 11, 2012 5:28 pm
Marquez is NOT a WW and he fought Mayweather at the weight because of hte money and Pacquiao matches up well with him given the fact they both come from WAY down the scale… JMM is not stupid, you are not going to see him calling out Berto or any other natural welters…He is better suited to 140 or so at this point… NO matter Marquez should retire but he will likely be lured by the pull of a MEGA 10 million plus payday against Pac Man…. The cash is too alluringPosted December 11, 2012 4:38 pm
You dont need PEDs or anything special to KO all you need is the elements of the universe to come together at the right time, Like a hurricane a perfect storm is formed from nothing Marquez fought Manny 3x and knew he was vulnerable to counter its just that before he chose to brawl with him. In there 3rd fight he countered more but didnt have the timing down, Next time he timed it hands down coming forward the perfect storm mastered lights out…Posted December 11, 2012 4:26 pm
I would like to see Marquez vs Gamboa at 140. I think Juan can still make 140.Posted December 11, 2012 3:10 pm
Marquez, although a great fighter, is not as much a threat to the bigger welters in the world ,even after the weigh-in he was only 148, a small welter weight. His priority was beating Pacman (also a small welter) that’s allPosted December 11, 2012 2:49 pm
Mike s bikes
That first knock down the way that punch was thrown. The amazing power in that punch you can hear it. It sounded like a heavyweight hitting Pacquiao. Very suspious indeed ! JMM never had that kind of power beforePosted December 11, 2012 2:43 pm
.All this Marquez PED talk is ridiculous… Please all PAcquiao sympathizers,breaking news, PAC is not superman and this is not his first time getting Knocked Out.. If the judges would of scored their last 2 fights correctly, Marquez wouldn’t have had the need to do some serious strenght training in order to take the decision out of the judges hands. What we saw wasn’t PED, what we saw was Marquez with a broken nose in a dog fight waiting to do what he does best, counterpunch…Oh, it also didnot help Manny when he swarmed in with his hands down taking Marquez for granted, you have admit fellow boxing fans, that K.O. was pretty explosive and its always what this sport needsPosted December 11, 2012 2:32 pm
WOW Manny Pacquiao got decked!!! So of course something must be wrong? Same when RJJ got put away, Wlad Klits, Paul Williams ect…. ALWAYS an excuse when guys get knocked out… I am HUGE on Mayweather but if he ever gets knocked out it is what it is notwithstanding how old he might be if that occurs….If Margarito could get knocked out by Mosley ANYTHING can happen… Manny has been stopped before, he was overdue taking all those shotsPosted December 11, 2012 2:28 pm
You guys have NEVER produced this GREAT KO artist who is the PED King? NONE of the guys knocking fighters out left and right are shown to be juicers…It has been the James Toneys, Vargas, Peterson’s (Berto supposedly vindicated) and OLD washed up 43 year old Antonio Tarver… So we really don’t have proof that PED’s even help a guy hit harder that is an assumption that is not really backed by HARD evidence…I know actual science and critical thinking are dirty words in the language of conspiracy theorists but that is what moves me…Marquez bulking up is easily attributed to adding weight training and corresponding nutrition to his program at the end of the day the dude is TINY unless you are a girly man who is 5″7 and weighs 143 pounds…. I’m 5″11 185….If I was highly motivated to be 205 I have no doubt I could get there in 6 months.Posted December 11, 2012 2:04 pm
How did he let up on Clottey he threw 1000 punches that fight you are making excuses AGAIN… As for Margo he was free swinging on a target so slow that it was just sad… BUT he still did NOT stop Margarito… You cannot include “He could have” in a mans KO percentage… Same with Shane Mosley!!! Manny Pacquiao has NOT stopped anyone in 3 years meanwhile he got crushed last Saturday…. Those are the FACTS and they cannot be intelligently refutedPosted December 11, 2012 1:57 pm
There is another Anonymous name poster that isnt me on here. For some reason I cant put a real screen name. I do think Marquez had big advantage with PEDsPosted December 11, 2012 1:54 pm
As for Marquez using Heredia it might be controversial but its not illegal and it does NOT mean he is cheating… Marquez speaks Spanish exclusively did you ever think that he wanted a guy he could relate to and communicate with? Heredia and Cotto’s coach both share common ground with them, and each man is HIGHLY credentialed in the field of Sports Science, Conte is working in the sport with Donaire and these guys have assumed the additional scrutiny in order to work with guys they believe can coach them to success…Marquez had been throwing rocks, drinking piss and really only training for boxing which he has pretty much mastered… He needed to be stronger and he used a strength coach in order to accomplish his goal….But alas he was still having a HARD night till he exploited Pac’s overaggression and he turned his lights out….. This is boxing it happens even Pac Man said so…Posted December 11, 2012 1:50 pm
He didn’t stop Clottey & Margarito because he let up. He could’ve stopped them both. He nearly retired Margarito with a crushed eye socket.Posted December 11, 2012 1:49 pm
Pacquiaos KO percentage DROPPED drastically at WW and that is just a FACT none of this speculation… He had been over 60% for his career… At WW he has only gotten 2 TKO’s against ODH and Cotto…. Beyond that he did not stop Bradley, Margo, Clottey, Mosely and Marquez 2x…. Do you guys really believe Marquez and Pac were born to be 125 pound fighters? These guys were making weight for YEARS and when they allowed their bodies to fill out they have carried additional snap… How many guys are the same weight at 25 that they are at 35? or 39? with weight training and nutrition its easy to see the growth… We have watched Rios and Broner outgrow their weight classes QUICKLY… All of this conjecture because conspiracy theorists don’t like the results… Face it Pac Man got CAPPED…. Head blown off like a gunPosted December 11, 2012 1:44 pm
what it is
While Pac rests from that brutal KO, I’d like to see Marquez-Danny Garcia. That’d be a solid action fight & probably a good paycheck for Marquez in the meantime.Posted December 11, 2012 1:44 pm
Anonymous, I cannot be “Wrong” unless Marquez was proven dirty which he was NOT after Mannys 3rd fight with Marquez when he had ALREADY been working with Heredia…If I had to guess like Cotto with his trainer the familiarity and ability of Memo to speak the language and relate to Marquez influenced the decision…. Both Heredia and Cottos coach are HIGHLY credentialed guys with degrees in the science of exercise… The fact that Heredia has a sorted past actually makes me think that Marquez has NOTHING to hide because he will be scrutinized more heavily… Reality is that rumors are running wild on ALL these athletes whenever pissed off fans don’t like the result… Pascal accused Hopkins when he struggled with a 46 year old boxer (Shameful)… PED usage has become the excuse du jour, just like the “draining” concept as if boxers don’t have a choice as to what division or weight they fight at….Posted December 11, 2012 1:40 pm
E in Denver
Anonymous-Southpaw vs. orthodox matches are always stepping on feet & butting heads. The stances are mirror opposites & the key is to get your lead foot just outside of your opponents. You have to pay more attention to your opponents shoulder(defense) & head movement(offense). Focusing on someone’s feet (to step on it)& paying less attention to where the punches are coming from will get you KO’d.Posted December 11, 2012 1:39 pm
PEDS makes the boxers walk right into a full overhand right???? PEDS or no PEDS, Manny walked into that right. The fight was close, but tilted to Manny before he walked into that right. Looks like there will be a number V.Posted December 11, 2012 1:37 pm
If you don’t put a name, that is what happens.Posted December 11, 2012 1:33 pm
I am not anonymous.Posted December 11, 2012 1:32 pm
When the Pactards bring up Angel and his affiliation to PED’s—- They somehow forget to mention that both Freddy Roach and Alex Ariza have been caught giving their athletes PED’s..Posted December 11, 2012 1:25 pm
That last guy is not me. Who ever is posting my name knock it off. Chuck Wepner is a joke. A shadow of what Ali ever was.Posted December 11, 2012 1:25 pm
stepping on a foot in boxing is not a foul….ask Chuck Wepner…in his KNOCK DOWN of ALIPosted December 11, 2012 1:19 pm
thank you Steve for presenting that articlePosted December 11, 2012 1:17 pm
Angel was a Balco Lab chemist at the time of Barry Bonds Hulk transformation. Angel is no dummy. JMP’s team Redquez picked Angel for a good reason. JMP or Mariod punchs like a mule kickingPosted December 11, 2012 1:16 pm
Sredmond I like your posts I agree with you on alot of things but tell me this WHY WOULD JMM PICK A TRAINING STRENGTH CONDITIONING COACH THAT DOESNT HAVE A HISTORY OF PED DEALING OF A SPAN OF @% YEARS. Why doesnt JMM pick someone who wasnt controversal ? There is more than dozens of good strength coachs out there WHY ANGEL HERNANDEZ ????? Why becuase of history knowledge of PEDs. Thats why ? Sred your wrong on this onePosted December 11, 2012 1:14 pm
By the wa, the last Anonymous was me. Forgot to enter my name.Posted December 11, 2012 1:13 pm
Anonymous NO ONE is going to tell you or concede a damn thing… You are a poster with NO identity in essence ” the invisible man”….Assuming Marquez is “dirty” reeks of nothing but BIAS and BITTERNESS reasonable posters can easily deduce that reality…Manny Pacquiao has been the subject of horrible speculations due to his success for YEARS…. Knocking out ODH, Cotto and battering TRUE WW’s is alot more suspect than Marquez blowing him out with the perfect shot he walked into….I assume JMM is clean because I don’t have any reason to think otherwise and I find your train of thought unimpressive and agenda driven… Heredia brought Marquez MORE scrutiny not less, he would be a fool to take something when lames are spreading rumors…. He invited testing, meanwhile Manny did NOT jump at the prospect of testing when Floyd begans smearing him?? (I did not like Floyds stance at all) FYIPosted December 11, 2012 1:07 pm
Ladies and Gentleman, Marquez’ knockout of Pacquiao is what a PED enhanced knockout looks like. A person could not prove it, but a reasonable person has to ask how is it that Marquez came in looking like the Bionic Man? His training video showed unbelievable power, power he never showed before. There is a very interesting interview of “Memo” in the German newspaper Der Spiegel, in which he makes clear that he is a very clever criminal and he boasts about how he can administer PEDs and avoid detection. It is easy to imagine how Marquez may have justified the use of PEDs in training since he felt that he was cheated the three previous times, so why not cheat too, and he might have looked the other way with a wink and a nod while “Memo” worked his magic. Manny Pacquiao is a religious man who has been victimized twice in succession in a corrupt sport, first by biased judges in the Bradley fight, and now by a ruthless fighter who had turned to a criminal doper to enhance his performance in order to achieve victory at all costs. There’s a spirit of ruthlessness in Mexico these days, and Marquez has demonstrated it here. My advice to Pacquiao is to leave the sport, since he has nothing to prove. I don’t feel these last two fights tarnish his image at all, considering the circumstances. When Freddie Roach said if Marquez’ body is natural he would kiss his ass he knew what he was talking about, having been around athletes and conditioning coaches all his life.Posted December 11, 2012 1:07 pm
Anonymous I agree 100%. It’s Even more heart breaking when it’s your boy on the floor. JMM let the dogs out, who let the dogs out who who who who.Posted December 11, 2012 1:05 pm
” the more one rejoices in the sight of harm done, the more that person is all the more unlikely to have ever laced up a pair of gloves…let alone faced a formidable physical challenge at any time in their lives.
It’s irritating to no end.”
Couldn’t agree more with this.
I hate people getting excited and laughing over an unconscious man on the floor.Posted December 11, 2012 12:57 pm
Anonymous and the rest you make PAC look bad with all the excuses. PAC has bigger balls than all of you he said I got caught and it happens. No excuses, crying, ohh someone steped on my toe crap. Pacs does nt need bum fans like you guys.Posted December 11, 2012 12:44 pm
Well said Te TumboPosted December 11, 2012 12:29 pm
The Mad Scientist
Poor pactard, they really believe Marquez owes Pacquiao and his fans a chance to redeem themselves..if they had any clue about boxing or the history between the two they would’ve known that Pac was out to prove he was the better fighter and not just Marquez..like I said no need for a 5th fight, we know who the better man is now..deal with it!Posted December 11, 2012 12:27 pm
too much is being made of Pacquiao* seemingly winning on the scorecards building up to the final KO. it was obvious that Marquez was not looking to win on the scorecards but with decisive and explosive punching. he was transparent about his preparation and fight-plan all along. once Marquez humbled himself to recognize that he lacked the celebrity clout to sway judges against Pacquiao* he adopted the mind-set of most Mexican fighters, which is to win by KO if they want to avoid being robbed by American scorecards. a lesson that even Pacquiao* was subjected to v. Bradley. accordingly, the KO was intentional and premeditated and the primary “enhancer” responsible for Marquez’s victory is called Boxing. Marquez and Beristain do it better than Pacquiao* and Roach and with both parties being thoroughly forewarned about each other’s capabilities, Team Marquez Proved that they are better once and for all . . . Viva Marquez!Posted December 11, 2012 12:17 pm
OK you guys think EVERYONE is on PED’s so why not line up put a gun to your head and pull the trigger or just STOP watching a sport you think is totally riddled with FRAUD?? If clean KO’s are going to be solely attributed to drugs then why waste time watching boxing? Reality is that MANY of you are like women who would rather gossip about what you have NO clue about as opposed to tangible results… We just saw a GREAT bout where both guys layed it on the line and hit the canvas… Manny was looking better than he had at anytime since Margarito and you punks are still not happy because the MIGHTY JMM was the winner….. Sad group of FAKE boxing fansPosted December 11, 2012 12:15 pm
“But you can’t find where i said UD ANYWHERE” I can, Braggadamus : In the thread under the article “Pacquiao vs. Marquez IV: Firmly on the Fence, by Paul Strauss, Dec. 6, 2012. Here’s your post, cut and pasted: Boxtradamus
I predict that Marquez will win by UD!
Fool. My memory is better than yours. So is my 2012 prediction record.Posted December 11, 2012 12:11 pm
hey I never thought in my wildest imagination that Tarver would be using. Tarver seemed like a honest staright up guy then when he got cought i was rather shocked.Posted December 11, 2012 12:04 pm
The Mad Scientist
No need for a 5th fight, we all know who the better man is between this two (Pac/Marq)..anyone clamoring for a 5th fight is not a true fan of the sport, just a bunch of blood thirsty fools who want to rejoice by witnessing the downfall of another man.Posted December 11, 2012 12:02 pm
The Mad Scientist
The assumption that Pacquiao would’ve had Marquez out in the next round hadn’t been for the KO blow is far fetched..Juan has proven time again that he can always make the necessary adjustments to nullify anything Pacquiao does in the ring thus getting his ass ktfo cold..Posted December 11, 2012 11:57 am
Like I said, they’re testing seriously. If Juan is guilty, he’ll be caught. Just like Antonio Tarver, Andre Berto, and others were caught. If nothing comes back, then give the man his credit.Posted December 11, 2012 11:49 am
You guys believe what you want to believe. I see one poster crediting me. Thats fine. When the tests come back I’ll be looking for Sredmond and Malachi for a apology. You cant tell me Lance Armstrong won 7 titles without cheating or Marion Jones. Even Lances buddies said YES Lance sticked himself. Lance denies the rumors which are true. Lance past tests but the kind of tests werent Commision approved typed tests. Lance wouldnt even take a polygraph. Now we have Marq JMM or JMp as PEDquez. Trained by no other Angel hernandez. Your the boxing experts Sredmond and Malachi but I think your wrong on this one.Posted December 11, 2012 11:42 am
Looking at the fight again this morning and looking at JMM body and punch power there is a huge I mean HUGE difference. That difference wasis what cause the first knock down of Pacquiao. I also looked at what Anonymous has been saying about angel Hernandez and it is all true. This guy shouldn’t be ——- training no one ——- he really should be banned from all related sports. The only reason I see Marq having Angel in his corner was one reason POWER. That power made a big time difference. JMM body shots were un real. Sorry guys sorry Sredmond and Malachi Anonymous has got something here.Posted December 11, 2012 11:37 am
Dude I don’t listen to couch potatoes like you who probably NEVER worked out a day in your life… I am 42 and can bench more now than I could when I was 24… Marquez is the MAN and fighter of the year… He is an ATG, a legend and in 60 pro fights he has NEVER tested dirty… He used a topflight strength coach who despite his sorted past has the technique and know how to push an athlete to the top… JMM dedicated himself, and did the work, he was ready and when Manny fked up he took his head off…. I could NOT be prouder of Juan Manuel Marquez!! I am also proud of Manny for taking that beating like a man despite the fact he has been the subject of unproven PED rumors for YEARS!! AGAIN Live with it!!Posted December 11, 2012 11:36 am
anonymous ,that was an accident my man,let it go`pacman hasn’t complained he took his knockout like a man and made no excuses..dont get me wrong i still respect pacman and think he’s an exciting fighter who is needed for the sport but the rightful man was crowned saturday night no judges to spoil the day,no doubt…..yuuup!Posted December 11, 2012 11:36 am
marquez took a huge risk in losing even more speed to put on muscle for power knowing that he was going to be slower even though he was already slower than pacman before that was the piece he was missing,he was noticeably slower than the other fights as well but clearly stronger(indicated from that first knockdown,the power in that punch was incredible)he still took the gamble but sooner or later with his accuracy and precise timing marquez took this fight completely out of the judges hands and tucked pacman in for a long winters nap (I LOVE IT)…yezzzir!Posted December 11, 2012 11:31 am
The boxing body is testing both guys seriously after the fight. If the test results comeback negative, then you Pactards need to accept that your boxing hero got KO’d by a superior fighter. End of story. Manny Pacquiao was foolish for rushing in against one of the greatest counter-punchers in boxing history. Give Marquez his just due. He always had Pacquiao’s number and proved it that night.Posted December 11, 2012 11:31 am
Malachi you say no foul play LOOK AT THE PICTURES OF MARQ STEPPING ON PACS FOOT WHILE THAT PUNCH IS THROWN> YOu are wrong on that one what are you talking about no foul play. Foot Stomping is a old dirty trick use by past fightersPosted December 11, 2012 11:25 am
so the anonymous who makes sense in knowing that marquez knew that he just needed that extra power edge to defeat pac with no foul play just with hard different training why don’t you change your name to somthing else my man because it’s confusing most of us…yuuup!Posted December 11, 2012 11:20 am
You also got to remember Sredmond that punch was helped by Marq stepping on his foot then releasing that punch to Pacs face. How is that fair. Your past post Sredmond indicates that you are for dirty fighting. That is dirty. If Marq comes up dirty in the tests I will put your name up here over and over again so people know that you are wrong on this one.Posted December 11, 2012 11:17 am
Sredmond Im not talking about Donaire why bring him up. My question to you is there is more than enough great natural condidtioning coach out there why didnt Marquez use those coaches instead of someone who has a shady past ? Your saying all of a sudden AH is training athletes clean ? Come on. Look at his history once again look closely.Posted December 11, 2012 11:15 am
Sred…btw, i,m not the same anonymous you’re talking about….i’m the one just before and after your last postPosted December 11, 2012 11:14 am
although i doubt Marquez would cheatPosted December 11, 2012 11:12 am
Anonymous, YOU are suspect because first of all you don’t even have the GUTS to indentify yourself…I stand by my brand and my opinions… As for Hopkins we all KNOW he is a ROUGH customer, guess what boxing is a ROUGH sport and I have 0 sympathy for prime fighters who cannot manhandle and OLD man… As for Heredia we all know of his past that does NOT mean Marquez is using, in fact I seriously doubt that if you wanted to cheat you would use a guy who is UNDER the radar as your strength coach… Donaire works with Conte and I don’t see you accusing him?? These guys are under CLOSER scrutiny because of their past and if you cannot produce a positive test then you are simply trying to detract from the GREAT Marquez terrific win…..Guys like you are NOT fans of boxing you would rather SMEAR the sport than respect and enjoy the fact history was made the other night…. You are NOT a crusader for justice my man…Posted December 11, 2012 11:11 am
Accusing Marquez of cheating? Well maybe they’re just getting a taste of their own medicine….see how it feels to get cheatedPosted December 11, 2012 11:11 am
Marquez power was not unnatural at all, Manny Pacquiao frankly had that KO coming for a LONG time… He has been rushing fighters and taking shots for over a decade, his chin had always kept him in the game since 99, but Manny has been getting beat on for a LONG time and eventually humanity and blunt force trauma won out…Antonio Margarito had NEVER been stopped, till a 37 year old Shane Mosley caught up with him and literally beat him down…. No man is invincible and if you keep getting punched flush your time will come…. Angulo got crushed, and eventually Marquez is going to if he keeps fighting… He was damn close in that 5th round but his Mexican fighting spirit kept him afloat… Should he press the issue the Great JMM will be getting peeled off the canvas just like Pac Man….Boxing is CRUEL.Posted December 11, 2012 11:07 am
Sredmond arent you the same guy around here that makes out Bernard Hopkins a clean fighter. Your information is suspect. AH has dealings with Balco Labs. Ain’t that enough he’s a distrubuter of EPO’s and a dozen othe Performance enchanement drugs. All of a sudden he in Marqs camp. Isnt that suspious enough Ever heard of Marion Jones ? Even U BOlt is tied in with this.Posted December 11, 2012 11:04 am
Good to see the world biggest attention seeker has at least one sockpuppet.Posted December 11, 2012 11:01 am
Neil wake up people in Marq gym saw him throwing around mass weight like nothing.. What fight did you see Neil (Pomy) ? I’m talking tabout the 4 th fight were Marq shoulders, arms, chest look noticely bigger. how he hit was so much harder than before. Neil please look up angel H this person has over and over agiaon been caught supplying PEDs. You dont believe thats your problem. Marqs punch was set perfect but he also stepped on Pacs foot. Combine that with extra punch power and you have a KO. I wont say it was a honest one. Because it wasnt. Do your self a favor and read upon Angel H and you will see this guy should be banned ASAP for life !Posted December 11, 2012 11:00 am
The ONLY reason guys are accusing Marquez of cheating is that he knocked their Hero COLD…. Marquez has knocked out alot of boxers (40) more than Pacquiao… Pac Man has faced bigger boxers over the last few years but Marquez has stopped pretty much everyone over the past few years absent Mayweather and Pacquiao (till Sat)…. I think the power surge that Martinez has gone on as he moved up to MW was more telling and I STILL do not accuse him of anything… Sergio began capping everyone at MW meanwhile at 154 and below he was just above 50% KO percentage… Reality is there is NO proven link between PED usage and additional power…. Marquez had the perfect storm, Manny was rushing forward and Marquez timed him to perfection…. That’s the reason Mayweather is ALWAYS respectful of his opponents ability to harm him, this is ALL these guys do and if you get caught ANYONE can go down AND hard…Posted December 11, 2012 11:00 am
not the article …. but the crazy theory that something was “different” about Marquez.Posted December 11, 2012 10:49 am
Utter bollocks.Posted December 11, 2012 10:48 am
1-Ton – yes, that is my target. Thanks for reading.Posted December 11, 2012 10:40 am
It was a sensatonal knockout victory but I can’t get to excited knowing there was a different Marquez in there. If Marq was aon PEDs which he most likely is then this is a form of cheating. Cheat to win at all costs I more like put it. This tells me Marq is good enough to beat Pac without some aid of something else that is illegal. The Knockout was amazing but again Marq power was unatural. Is this good for the sport of boxing I say long run no it isnt.Posted December 11, 2012 10:40 am
Pulling rank on regular or episodic boxing fans is not going to help promote the sport in the slightest… Arrogance and exclusivity are the province of equestrians, polo players and those who play cricket… Boxing is largely a blue collar sport, and thus accessible by people from all social stratas…Fact is that Mayweather, Pac, Cotto and others who are actually able to bring in casual fans are SUPER important because without these guys supporting promotional companies and providing widely viewed undercards how will the next generation of boxers come up??Posted December 11, 2012 10:37 am
As admirable as I find this article’s attempt to ‘defend’ the integrity of our sport, I also feel he is going overboard. He cannot pretend that boxing is ‘exclusive’: where does he think all the millions of dollars that pay promoters like Bob Arum, boxers like Pacquiao come from? Who does he think are the people who actually pay to watch? Does he think everyone watches high profile matches from the comfort of corporate studios or officially-paid for TV screens? Yes, most of that money comes from people who never laced gloves and who have never entered a ring. You dont have to to love or support a sport. If he has a grouse with some particular lournalists or media people, who should please spare us neutrals from his nonsense drivel. If he wants to keep boxing as exclusive as he claims, he should provide the additional funds. Nonsense!Posted December 11, 2012 10:30 am
I generally think that more mainstream coverage of our sport is always better. But, I trust that the author is referring to ESPN’s “first take”. That show is sensationalism at its absolute worst and should be ignored.Posted December 11, 2012 10:27 am
Neil, I could NOT agree with you more… I am a BIG Pacquiao fan I think he has been an awesome spectacle to behold from start to finish…I am also a HUGE JMM fan and he is simply the most determined fighter in the sport bar none… Lacking the gifts of a Mayweather or Pac Man but compensating with an iron will and desire to walk on hot coals to beat Pacquiao… We were treated to a CLASSIC fight and all these sour fans can do is try to smear a boxer who has NEVER/ been accused or proven to have taken anything more potent than his own urine… Marquez does not have to prove he was clean anymore than Pacquiao has to…. Reality is that Pac Man has to prove he can rebound from getting his bell rung and begin to win at the top levels again…. These conspiracy theorists disgust me and they always have.Posted December 11, 2012 10:06 am
UK Jay by the way.
I think you’re on dodgy ground with articles like this. I find it quite endearing when casuals try to take an interest in the science. Obviously I don’t feel that way when its a know all spouting utter Shi@e but we can’t have our cake and eat it. I appreciate marc’s vehement defense even if on this occasion the sentiment seems somewhat misplaced. I for one would not be overly thrilled if the mainstream said ” your sport is it fellas, well here fuc@in keep it ” and walked away. And adrien the problem broner most definitely wouldn’t!Posted December 11, 2012 10:06 am
UK Jay, I’m sure he will. The reason why I apologized to Tumbo is because maybe Marc Livitz didn’t explain himself thoroughly enough and that is never the fault of the reader.
But, Tumbo seems like a reasonably intelligent guy and it just surprised me that he didn’t get the point if he did indeed read the entire article.
But Tumbo is indeed right on point about never apologizing for a sensational knock-out victory at the highest level of the sport. It’s what makes the sport so great!!Posted December 11, 2012 10:04 am
the best rivalry we have seen in years.Posted December 11, 2012 10:00 am
UK Jay, I apologized for the way the post wast written…But, the author is apologizing on behalf of the sports media for the amount of ingorance spewed in the aftermath of this event and their interpretation of the event.
Livitz isn’t apologizing for the product.Posted December 11, 2012 9:59 am
I must admit that there have been more excuses coming from Pacquaio fans than I have ever seen from any fans on any fight in history. All this PED talk is just sour grapes from the accusations Pacquaio has received in the past. Pacquaio was winning the fight but got caught by a superbly timed counter-shot form Marquez that Pacquaio walked onto. It happens …. get over it. You dont need to be a huge puncher to turn someones ‘lights-out’ when throwing a counter-punch … especially when the opponent walks straight onto it. Pacquaio walked onto it and didnt see it coming. Knockout of the year. I hope we see a fifth fight.Posted December 11, 2012 9:56 am
UK Jay by the way.
Joseph,I wrote my post before you posted your apology so I’m sorry about that fella. It was fairly brutal though. Surprised tumbo has not responded,hope he’s ok.Posted December 11, 2012 9:44 am
UK Jay by the way.
I’ve read tumbo’s post and the article three times to see what provoked the attack from Joseph but I’m none the wiser.Posted December 11, 2012 9:36 am
Bob Arum is a dirty jew. he is the same kind of jew that runs our whole congress turning our country upside down. Boxing is corrupt. People like Bob dont help matters.Posted December 11, 2012 9:19 am
I’ve talked about this strange phenomenon several times on my show. The die hard boxing fan carries around their love of the game like a red badge of courage and thoroughly enjoy putting anyone in their place for not knowing as much about boxing.
Die hard’s yearn for the days of mass popularity but I think have completely forgotten how painstaking a discussion can be with a boxing novice.
Avid boxing fans run the risk of sounding like a disgruntled Rush fan who pines for the days of 2112 and Caress of Steel, while most casual listeners just want to hear the band play Tom Sawyer and Spirit of Radio when they go to a live show.
Word of advice to the knowledgable boxing fanatic: Let it go…yes, we know you are more knowledgeable than the average sport fan when it comes to recognizing what’s truly great about the sport. So what? It doesn’t help the sport by tearing down someone who knows less. Educate the casual sports fan instead of choosing to belittle them.
Die hards are the ultimate ambassadors of the sport and it’s our responsibility to enlighten the casual viewers when the opportunity presents itself.
But I understand what Livitz is saying and a proper representation is needed to deliver the good word in the mainstream media.
Well stated, brother!!Posted December 11, 2012 9:14 am
Tumjbo, forgive me for jumping on you about your topic of choice. It has nothing to do with the article, but your point is absolutely correct.
You can’t take factors that make the sport so great out of boxing. Knock-outs are stunning and attract the most attention to the sweet science. It’s not for everyone.
Notice that people who complain about the brutality of boxing are never the participants. It’s always the critics who would never step in the ring.
Most ignorant detractors of boxing don’t talk about what the sport does to help the underprivileged youth of this country. Boxing teaches these kids all of the important lessons needed to have a successful adult life and takes them off of the streets.
Emanuel Steward was a believer in boxing. It kept a young Emanuel Steward out of trouble and taught him discipline, drive, hard work, determination, etc…all of the essential ingredients to make a healthy functioning adult in society.
He gave back everything to the sport, because he knew what it did for him in his life.
I think most people these days have an “attack and debate” mentality without truly examining both sides of the issue. It’s a shame.
The fight skeptics will always look at one factor only and completely disregard all of the positives generated from boxing. Men who willingly choose the hard sport of boxing as their profession are no different from any other group in society who make the conscious decision to feed their families by making a living doing a seemingly risky vocation.
In a recent study, a fisherman was found to have the most dangerous profession in society. The death ratio for that industry was something staggering like 200 to 100,000.
Boxing doesn’t even come close. Where are the critics’ bleeding hearts for those hard working men? Is it because a fisherman doesn’t receive the same kind of glory and adulation from the masses?Posted December 11, 2012 8:42 am
Casual fans help add to the sense of occasion, the more the merrier for a big fight, in my opinion. Anyway, I read someone accuse Nonito Donaire of PED use, he has voluntarily submitted himself to random drug testing that may take place 24/7 365 days a year. And Boxtradamus, you’re a sad individual, craving attention. If you want validation, become a tipster, I bet you don’t even back your predictions up with money (not that I’m advising it). You’re boring, nobody cares, you troll.Posted December 11, 2012 8:40 am
I agree with the author. Mainstream media needs to stay away from boxing and from now on, all fights should be un-televised and held only in gyms.Posted December 11, 2012 8:00 am
Tumbo, reading comprehension is a must.
What the he** are you talking about? Re-assess your commentary and truly think about what the author is trying to say before you start one of your ignorant rants.Posted December 11, 2012 7:54 am
The same idiots that are calling Roach useless, were calling him the greatest last year.Posted December 11, 2012 6:23 am
Could this article be any more verbose?
Te Tumbo,well and aptly put……We fully know this is a violent and sometime ugly sport,…if those of you who do not like it pull out….It is what it is….Posted December 11, 2012 4:03 am
Amen to the author. To hell with mainstream and their casual followers.Posted December 11, 2012 4:03 am
Boxtrad ickhead is an a-hole that has hijacked yet another topic with bragging about who he picked. Again, who cares? You aren’t the only one that picked JMM.Posted December 11, 2012 4:02 am
Arum is a dirty jew he is already trying to capitalize off a 5 rematch calling it a must fight and the biggest fight of 2013 dude is not going to be happy until manny is like Ali…Posted December 11, 2012 3:36 am
Boxing IS a respectable sport. IMO, even a minor concession of remorse for Boxing’s brutality to “innocent but uninformed bystanders” is questioning the legitimacy of the sport itself. otherwise, several more “respectable” sports can also be discredited by focusing on their ugly sides. afer all, Pacquiao* was thoroughly prepared and handsomely compensated to voluntarily participate in last Saturday’s contest. Marquez experienced less favorable conditions but was also eager and proud to participate in this most primal of one-on-one competitions known as Boxing and what happened to Pacquiao* was a thing of primal beauty to the true fight-fan; a demonstration of excellence by Marquez; and an example of competitive justice earned in the most rigorous and challenging fashion. at it’s core, Boxing remains proud, horrifying, and inspirational. what is there to apologize for?Posted December 11, 2012 2:47 am
Marquez always gave Manny a hard time, its just that Roach hand picked his opponets these idiots like Cotto and DLH chose to meet him at a dehydrated catch weight, And they brawled with him instead of out boxing Manny, Manny has never came up against a true boxer everyone he fought since moving up was over the hill, The most damaging shots are the ones you dont see Like Ali vs. Liston Manny walked right into it He got away with keeping his hands down so much he took it for granted, Mayweather would have killed him and it wouldnt have made it to 6 you cannot make those mistakes with a experienced counter puncher It not that manny got careless. Its his style leaves him open after throwing shots keep you hands up at all times in fundemental, Ask Victor Ortiz Manny should retire anytime you have to be revived by smelling salt its time to retink things its not worth his health at this point..Posted December 11, 2012 2:43 am
Manny was always accessable to a well timed counter because his punches are wide and he throws them from all kinds of angles, It was bound to happed sooner or later with a good counter puncher….Posted December 11, 2012 2:33 am
Yup. Roach is a dummy. Marquez capitalizes on Manny’s attacks. SO now Roach is telling him to attack even more. SO Marquez is going to make him pay more now. Marquez already has Manny timed like a ROLEX. Now he’s adding the missing component which is Power. Now the 3 Blind mice won’t have a chance to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. Marquez will stop Manny or PUNISH him SO bad that they’ll reluctantly have to give him the decision.
Posted December 2, 2012 ”
I am the GREATEST Fight Prophet ever born!!!!!!!!!Posted December 11, 2012 2:27 am
In response to article named “Pacquiao: I’m going to attack Marquez and pressure him constantly”
Go right ahead and get yourself knocked out.
Posted December 4, 2012″Posted December 11, 2012 2:26 am
Anonymous-Nope. I SAID Marquez by stoppage or PUNISHING SD. Go get you some reading SKILLS.Posted December 11, 2012 2:21 am
Karma-YES. Every time I pick the WINNER I celebrate on every single article regarding the Fight which I predicted CORRECTLY. And YES I pick WINNERS based on the Boxing related attributes of the Fighters. Race plays no factor in that….The little boys can hate ME all they want. All that does is give ME an extra BOOST.Posted December 11, 2012 2:19 am
UK Jay-YES. I write it EVERY time. Its not the same when you cut and paste. Takes away some of the enjoyment.Posted December 11, 2012 2:16 am
u said Marquez UD u damn moron so STFUPosted December 11, 2012 2:05 am
As for now JMP and “P” stands for Peds. This is what it has to take to beat Pacquiao JMP had to be on the juice sticks. Angel heredia says it all. The guy should be banned. Other boxers were shocked to see how much weight Juan Mariod PEDuez was throwing around in the gym.Posted December 11, 2012 2:04 am
Stop crying pinoys…. Can’t you see Manny is sleeping!!! Ur gonna wake him with ur crying… Lol PED’s have always circulated around pacquiao!!! Don’t forget Donaire and his buddy Conte!!!Posted December 11, 2012 2:02 am
UK Jay by the way.
Boxtra,do you write ” I’m the greatest…..,,.” every time or have you got some cut and paste function? If you write that every time you must spend more time on your keyboard than a teenage lad does having a five knuckle shuffle!Posted December 11, 2012 2:00 am
Pacqauio has been hit with great shots the diff was this shot was PED POWER !Posted December 11, 2012 1:57 am
Marc, I warned everyone that it was coming…every fight fan has been clamoring for greater exposure within the mainstream media outlets, but it comes at a cost.
Most casual sports fans don’t understand the subtle nuances of the fight game and will often espouse rubbish like Stephen A Smith did on ESPN yesterday morning. He wouldn’t know a fish hook from a left hook but is still talking like he actually knows what’s going on in and out of the ring.
I understand exactly what Livitz is saying here and he’s right on the money. Personalities in the mainstream media have gained the trust of the casual sports fan by reporting accurately on other sports like football, basketball, baseball, etc. And when they regurgitate garbage about a sport they aren’t familiar with, your “Average Joe” will be influenced by the wrong opinion.
Unfortunately, the casual fan only recognizes what is reported to them. if the mainstream media personality reports that a fighter is garbage, it’s going to regurgitated as the gospel truth.
Like I’ve stated before on “The Pugilist KOrner” several times, mainstream coverage is a blessing and a curse. Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.
I present to you…Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless talking about boxing!!Posted December 11, 2012 1:41 am
Marquez WON by stoppage just as I predicted!!!! I am the GREATEST Fight Prophet ever born!!!!Posted December 11, 2012 1:34 am
Mr. Tom White
I saw this JMP Juan Mariod PEDquez. If your on PEDs which JMP was then your a cheat. Just google Angel Hernandez’s rap sheet on PEDS. JMP your a cheater and those who endorse him on here are pathetic. As for the Mexcians who honor this YOUR ALL COWARDS !Posted December 11, 2012 1:24 am
… (you also don’t seem to understand what the word subjective means … i.e. how is a team sport more subjective? team sports have winners and losers based on objective points systems i.e. we scored more goals so we win … the entire basis for judging fights is subjective) Everyone is entitled to their commentary about boxing. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, but you sure as hell don’t get to dictate who gets an opinion on “our sport”.
(That said you also don’t seem to understand what the word subjective means … i.e. how is a team sport more subjective? team sports have winners and losers based on objective points systems i.e. we scored more goals so we win … the entire basis for judging fights is subjective) Everyone is entitled to their commentary about boxing. You don’t have to like it or agree with it, but you sure as hell don’t get to dictate who gets an opinion on “our sport”.
“This is our sport and our product to peddle. When left in the hands of those who are but cronies to an overpowering network, the outlook offered to the rest of the public doesn’t come close to sharing our views.”
Whose sport is it exactly? How do you qualify who gets to watch/comment on it? Sorry to break it to you bud, but you don’t get any claim to creating or being part of an exclusive group that has all rights to “expert” opinion over boxing. It exists on a large scale because of the big networks and media and that means they’re going to get some kind of say, and so will the people that watch one fight or less per year … and why wouldn’t they?Posted December 11, 2012 1:07 am
Wow, what’s waste of time. Please don’t ever write as a boxing scribe again you dolt.Posted December 11, 2012 12:57 am
Guillermo Enrique Pérez Germán
I understand the resentment.. but don’t agree with it. For boxing to be more popular, and get more recognition it must INVARIABLY get recognotion from NON CONnOSSEURS the fights and fighters that even the cleaning lady comments. The attention draws attention to boxing… whoever sticks, then that’s our gain… new fans are never knowledageable… let’s not be the cranky old crowd we’re so accused of being.Posted December 11, 2012 12:49 am