Tark – I just hope they keep the ones from boxing as well.Posted December 29, 2012 3:23 pm
Lance Armstrong DID fail drug tests… They now keep samples of blood and urine tests frozen for many years—so that future testing procedures that can detect PEDs that could possibly escape detection today will be nailed in the future. That’s how Armstrong was caught. Armstrong’s old urine samples screamed bloody murder when put through more modern testing processes. They nailed his ass to the wall. So if you’re an Olympic hero today you might be a pariah tomorrow when new processes are developed. That’s what is putting the fear of God into 2012 athletes and they’re going to the best natural methods of training—because they’re proven to work wonders without the numerous and complicated health risks of PEDs—and the high probability of being caught in the future … And right Happyboy—after his plastered mitts were taken away Cheato was garbage.Posted December 29, 2012 2:05 pm
hecdog – I ahve no personal issues with Pac just facts about him and I won’t miss him when his gone cause I’ ll just replay Pac vs Dinamita 4 for laughs. VIVA MARQUEZ!Posted December 29, 2012 11:52 am
Tark – Margacheato had just been ktfo by Shane Mosley, busted for cheating, was coming off a lengthy lay off with no state willing to give him a licence either than PED state Texas. So what exactly did he do to besides failing to KO a cab driver in Mexico and loose evey fight after being busted. Come on ffs.Posted December 29, 2012 11:48 am
DLH, Arum, and a few other rich promoters need to build up a testing fund of a few million dollars — and all professional Boxers the world over should be obliged to test randomly for PEDs with OSDT’s whenever a commission suspects them of drug use. That way if any boxer is suspected of PED use he’s tested immiediately. That way nobody would be safe from testing and PED use would go down even faster.Posted December 29, 2012 5:03 am
Cheato fought at 154 before… Against Dan Santos…Posted December 29, 2012 4:52 am
Happy Boy, okay, I’ve found a few stories on Graham working with Manny, but nothing in depth as to how long or what he did, but I will continue to research this because Graham shouldn’t be around anywhere. As far as Manny being an 8 division champion, well, that’s true. Margarito and Manny fought for the vacant jr. middleweight title at the time, and although both came in at a catch weight MP 144 1/2 Margarito 150, when the entered the ring, MP weighed 148 and Margarito weighed 165. Fighters can fight for a heavier weight title and still come in under the weight for that title. The thing about Manny that you guys have to understand is that Manny is a small framed guy with little body fat, and although he moves up in weight classes, he has difficulty gaining weight, hence the catch weight. Manny is small, I’ve seen him train live, and although he is ripped (due to low body fat) he’s a small guy. Floyd and Manny both fought at flyweight when they were 16 yrs old, but no one questions Floyd as he moved up and won titles in heavier weight classes. Manny was named Fighter of the Decade for the 2000′s. He is an incredible athlete, and some people can’t fathom his success. He has never failed a drug test. I know people want to discredit him for whatever personal reasons, but he is a class guy inside and outside the ring. He never once made any excuses even with his last fight vs JMM. He gave JMM the credit. Manny is a man of God, and we will all miss him when he calls it quits even the haters. Manny Pacquiao is a credit to the human race. Give this man his due credit. Hating for no reason doesn’t help anyone.Posted December 29, 2012 3:06 am
hecdog – Manny is no 8 div champion if you weren’t a nutthugger you would know that, 7 yes but not 8. Look up the boxing rules and see how this was never a title fight but a gimmick designed by Arum for Pactards like yourself, first the fight was at a catchweight, secondly both fighters never faught at 154lbs before. After that goggle the Jamaican strength and conditioning coach Trevor Graham and his association with Pac and Roach then lets see how much of a boxing fan are you or if you’re just another Pactard having difficulties accepting reality.Posted December 29, 2012 1:25 am
a common but apparently selective sense. otherwise, “too much strength and energy and at the wrong age” applied to Pacquiao* and Martinez YeeearS ago. moreover, Pacquiao* rejected mutually-applied OSTing when directly challenged to do so by his primary P4P rival, Floyd Mayweather. not even for a $25-$50 million payday. apply your common sense to examining that red-flag, if you dare.Posted December 29, 2012 1:16 am
Finally a man with common sense. Thank You Steve!Posted December 29, 2012 12:38 am
if the pre-scandal Heredia was good enough to cheat and beat the system, the post-scandal Heredia can certainly abide by the system with ease. besides, it’s mandatory considering the candor and integrity of his primary client: Juan “Any Test. Any Time” Marquez. words that Manny* lacks the integrity to utter himself. not even for $25-$50 million. instead Pacquiao* objects to improved testing methods becoming the only fighter to ever do so and despite the fact that there is not A-Single-Credible excuse to reject harmless and mutually-applied drug testing. based on Manny’s sustained avoidance of Marquez and shameless ducking of Mayweather, he is either a protected Fraud or Worse. i’ve always suspected the former instead of the latter. nonetheless, Manny* began at a lower weight than both Mayweather and Marquez, rejects OSTing, and defeats opponents that are naturally-bigger than all of them(?). Hell-Yeah this suspect Mfr needs to be tested. no matter how much his greedy and corrupt promoter vouches for the integrity of the bickering commissions to prevent such testing from ever becoming standard protocol.Posted December 28, 2012 9:51 pm
Tark, as long as there’s greedy, corrupt promoters, commissions and fighters in this great sport of boxing, I don’t ever see the strictest type of testing becoming a reality across the board ever. They should at the least make it mandatory in all championship fights. I don’t care for Floyd Mayweather too much, but he had it right with wanting Olympic style testing. I’m sure great conditioning as well as nutrition and other important components you mentioned along with great genetics can enhance an athletes performance. I want to see any and all doubts erased, and allowing a guy like Angel Hereida as well as others into a sport after being caught red handed doesn’t make sense to me at all unless promoters want to build fighters that carry thunderous power, which brings fans in as does the home run ball in baseball. Guys like Fernando Vargas, Andre Berto, Shane Mosely, Roy Jones jr, Orlando Salido and so on only taint this great sport. The government sure isn’t going to give a damn about boxing, so I don’t know who’s going to step up and make these changes unless it’s the fighters themselves, at least the clean ones.Posted December 28, 2012 8:52 pm
Right hecdog… But the way I look at it…It’s possible to get that kind of development without PEDs… It takes one Hell of a lot of work. All the Olympic athletes in 2012 took the most stringent randomized OSDTs ever. They also broke the most world and Olympic records ever. The science of training the human body keeps getting better and better. It’s about eating right, sleeping right, the right natural organic legal supplements such as bee pollen, desiccated liver pills, and royal jelly—and plenty of flaxseed, raw veggies, and organic, range fed, slow cooked meats. The strength and conditioning workout routines are monitored more closely and the results and documented better. The emphasis is on training better than the other guy instead of cheating … That’s pretty tough when you’re a congressman with 100 business interests.Posted December 28, 2012 7:54 pm
Tark, I will agree with you on the Roach comment. He knew what Hereida was all about, and he himself said JMM muscle addition was not natural, Doesn’t make sense to me.Posted December 28, 2012 7:28 pm
Marquez vowed to take any test as would anyone else if they had Angel “Ped Supplier Masker” in their camp. You guys need to do quality research on this character and get the whole story and hear his own words, and if you’re not biased, you’ll be able to see how knowledgeable this sneaky corrupt person is. I wonder why you don’t ever see or hear about this guy after the 24/7 episodes? Because rats hide. Nevada test for certain things, hereida figured it out, JMM passed the tests, and fans have to live with it. Now as far as Manny Pacquiao & JMM go, Pacquaio is by far the better fighter. As I mentioned before, he was winning and on the way to a 4th victory, and we all know what happened. Manny climbed up to the jr. middleweight division and won a title, let’s see if JMM can do that. No way, and he knows why. Manny an 8 division champion, can JMM do that? NO! Manny Pacquiao is on the same level as Muhammad Ali. He’s the 2nd Greatest of all time. And one thing we can all be proud of is that Manny did all this while clean of any Peds. And while on the subject of Peds, why was Graham banned from ever taking part in any sport forever and Hereida wasn’t? Because Hereida turned snitch and saved his corrupt rear and received anonymity. It took Hereida a few fights before he got the mix right, and it looks like he got it right on the 4th fight. I can only imagine what will happen with Julio Cesar Chavez jr now that he will be with Nacho? Keepan eye on him and see if he looks like a monster and starts crushing opponents with his power. Boxing better step up the drug testing policies. Thank God Manny Pacquiao leads by example. Clean as a whistlePosted December 28, 2012 6:17 pm
One more thing, in the 3rd installment of this fight’s 24/7 JMM does say that with pleasure he’d take a drug test at anytime. I wonder why Pac’s camp didn’t take him up on that?Posted December 28, 2012 4:56 pm
Tumbo….. If you recall, I often said IMO Marquez won every previous fight from Pacquiao, was going after Pacquiao with relentless drive, getting more convincing with each fight, and because more analytical fighters such as master counterpunchers gain more knowledge and insight when they have a long series of fights to draw on, Marquez would be more dangerous than ever. I said it wasn’t a smart matchup for Pacquiao and thought Roach was going off the deep end with his concerns about Marquez’s new physique. I wanted to see Mayweather-Pacquiao like everybody else, but JMM tossed a giant wrench into that affair. My fear is that promoters will try to rehabilitate Mayweather-Pacquiao by matching Pacquiao with Garcia, Rios, Broner, or Matthysse—and compound the problem with another thundering KO loss. Is Pacquiao’s attention divided??? Is a congressman’s job easy??? You have to justify that staff because they get paid well.Posted December 28, 2012 3:19 pm
TARK, what “divided attention” are you talking about? beyond photo-ops and talk-show appearances, Pacquiao* has only been dividing his attention between bible-thumping and Boxing. besides, even in his promotional prime, Pacquiao* was a lazy, easily-distracted, gambling, womanizing, carousing, and one-dimensional puncher guided by a trainer who has only ever produced one-dimensional (albeit ready-made) punchers NOT versatile or adaptable boxers. of course, i’ve been trying to explain this to You for over two years now. it’s good to see that Marquez’s KO of Pacquiao* finally jolted your system back into reality. bottomline, Marquez’s legacy-defining win had EVERYthing to do with Marquez’s prepration, ring-smarts, and execution and NOTHING to do with ANYthing Pacquiao* did or didn’t do. Marquez Is and has ALwasy been Greater.Posted December 28, 2012 1:26 pm
Btw, anybody check out those “Filipino reaction” vids on YouTube? “Oh my GAWWWD!? He’s dead! . . . Call 911! He’s not moving!? He Died!?! . . . He needs to retire! Gago . . . GAWWWWD!” among several others, which can all be summed-up by one agonized reaction: “NOOOoooo!?!” (LoL) what’s funny is that they were obviously eager to capture the anticipated demolition of Marquez by Pacquiao* . . . NOT (LoL). the depth of dissapointment, desperation, and just plain boxing-ignorance was captured by one Filipina’s sincere albeit clueless question of “can’t they just continue the fight?” after Pacquiao* was finally revived by smelling salts. hopefully Marquez’s Mexecution of the “Mexicutioner” provided enough of a shock to the systems of Pacquiao* worshippers that they’ll finally accept reality. Marquez is Greater and the rivaly is OVER. Viva Marquez!Posted December 28, 2012 12:30 pm
Thanks Happyboy for reminding the Pacturds that usually have amnesia when it comes to Big Trev and steroids use. Trevor Graham is banned in athletics period. Team Pacquaio brought him for the Diaz fight. Post fight press conference they gave him major props. He was never used again after that, wonder why coz us logic boxing fanatics asked questions. Please don’t waste your time with these numb nuts. Only reason Team Pac couldn’t ask JMM for tests its coz they would be viewed as hypocrites. They are the sick bunch, they defended their hero when he refused the tests. Now they suspect JMM of juicing. It must really hurt Pacturds huh?Posted December 28, 2012 5:57 am
Herron – Happytool, Happyboo, Happymtf, it don’t matter bottomline I’m still one happy dude. You on the other hand will always be crap in writing. How’s Victor Conte doin, still bad mouthing his fellow PEDs pushers, humble indeed. Have you finally figured out why KOs get boxing fans excited, keep searching.Posted December 28, 2012 2:51 am
Joseph Herron – resorting to name calling only proves my point of having a poor character and judging by some of the posts your so called writing skills leaves a lot to be desired in shot, crap! IMO you lost all credibility when on your first article after JMM iced Pac, you questioned why the fans were so excited about a KO, that sealed your fate that day and the rest is history. You waisting time writing as your character is so screwed up you don’t know when you bias, hell Tark has just schooled you on how to structure your sentences and you call yourself a writer, please. You have no backbone so you never can stick behind your points cause you busy trying to be something you’re not, you’re always caught up and having to defend your statements cause consistantly trying to please both sides. You can’t insinuate that JMM is using PEDs then try to praise him, which one is it dude. Best you fold up your tent, go home and try another hobby ESB posters will eat you alive cause unlike you many know what they’re tslking about.Posted December 28, 2012 2:45 am
Tark, good point. He’s fighting guys with 50% of his potential, which is scary. He is getting a bit older in age, which will let others catch up. Imagine if a trainer like Emmanuel Steward had him from day one? They would have to out law him from fighting period. What a reign of destruction and terror that might have been. Women and children would not have been allowed anywhere near the ring.Posted December 27, 2012 11:49 pm
Pac is getting screwed up because of his divided attention to so many business interests and especially to politics. Holding a congressional seat is a demanding occupation that requires laser like focus for about 70 hours a week.. Also, Freddie Roach has seen his best days as a trainer and became discombobulated over JMM physical development, looking for excuses before the fight ever took place.
Pac should resign from congress or retire from Boxing—because both interests are suffering.. Why wouldn’t his constituents vote him out of office when they’re getting a part time legislator and problem solver??? Voters the world over are impatient these days.Posted December 27, 2012 8:27 pm
Okay, let’s not get carried away here. I have to give JMM the benefit of the doubt at this time because everyone is innocent until proven guilty in this country. It’s still my opinion that Manny Pacquiao is still the far Superior fighter. He has 3 victories vs JMM, and he is the only 8 time division boxing champion in the history of boxing. In my humble opinion, Manny Pacquiao is arguably the best fighter of all time. And what makes him such a true likeable person is his true character. He helps the poor, holds bible study (I think all the Manny haters should attend), respects everyone, never talks bad about anyone, never complains or cries, and is more than just a boxer. He is a congressman that helps people in need. He is a role model to children, mothers and fathers in today’s society. Manny transcends sports. And more importantly, he is a child of God that always humbles himself. He has no pride, and is full of love.Posted December 27, 2012 7:13 pm
The Mad Scientist
Hecdog that’s the spirit! Te tumbo, LMAO!Posted December 27, 2012 6:54 pm
wow hecdog i’m proud of you man…yuuup!Posted December 27, 2012 4:05 pm
Well, at this point all we can say is that JMM beat Manny Pacquiao in a fight that could have gone either way up until the knockout. Manny was winning up until he was nailed with that right hand. Was it a lucky punch? Peds? or skill? I would be fine with the latter had Angel Hereida not been involved. I think we can beat this thing to death, but for now, I’ll have to give the JMM a valid victory until proven otherwise.Posted December 27, 2012 3:24 pm
“pactards would’ve loved coming here years from now pulling Pacquiao’s[*] name out of their asses to degrade the next crop of mexican fighters . . .” i join Mad Scientist in Thanking “Dinamita” for eliminating this once-looming scenario with the Sock FELT around the world. the rivalry is OVER. Viva Marquez! . . . :twisted:Posted December 27, 2012 3:10 pm
“pactards would’ve loved coming here years from now pulling Pacquiao’s[*] name out of their asses to degrade the next crop of mexican fighters . . .” i join Mad Scientist in Thanking “Dinamita” for eliminating this once-looming scenario with the Sock FELT around the world. the rivalry is OVER. Viva Marquez! . . . :twisted;Posted December 27, 2012 3:09 pm
The Mad Scientist
Hecdog much like yourself Marquez said he knew nothing about Heredia’s past and that was heading into his 3rd fight with Manny Pacquiao..you said it yourself you had no idea Memo was involved in Marquez’s camp for his 3rd fight against Manny Pacquiao..if you go back and watch Marquez vs Pacquiao 3, 24/7 series you’ll find out is exactly the same thing as the 4th, nothing has really changed except pactards are now acting as if Memo was a recent addition to Marquez’s camp ever since Manny got KTFOiao..Posted December 27, 2012 2:04 pm
And also, Tark…how am I posting a blanket statement concerning all or every conditioning coach with my post? Did I write “all” or “every” behind my passage? No…that’s how your emotional brain perceived my words.
What I stated was 100% true and most within the boxing industry understand this. Conditioning coaches will surface as the drug pushers of boxing in time…not all or every. But PEDs are coming from them and no one else in the sport. Not coaches, not promoters, not managers…but conditioning coaches. not all of them but from no one else.Posted December 27, 2012 11:12 am
And another thing, Happytool…how am I not giving JMM his due? I’ve always written favorably about the Mexican fight legend. Even before the third fight with Pacquiao http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/1559-Juan-Manuel-Marquez-The-Dark-Horse-Rides-Again
Learn how to read without selection, toad.Posted December 27, 2012 11:08 am
Happytool, go back and read my response with comprehension skills…you’ll see that I responded appropriately. and get off the nutsack of Tumbo and Sredmond!!Posted December 27, 2012 11:01 am
Herron – SRed & te tumbo just owned you. You’ve been exposed, you call Victor Conte a nice and humble guy and go on bad mouthing Angel, how is one different from the other, Pac is a bantamweight walking thru welterweights like Cotto, ODH, Mosley,Clottey and Margarito and even knocking some of them out yet Marquez is a small man who ktfo another small guy yet his win is questionable. Are you for real? Why weren’t you so vocal about Angels connection with Marquez in the third fight? Why weren’t you as vocal when Pac refused OSDT when you seem to be so aware of the use of PEDs in boxing. Give the man his due as Pac got his FOTD and dubious 8th title vs Margarito. Pac was affiliated with Trevor Graham whose no,different from Heredia nor humble Conte and question begs to be answered is it your writing skills or just your character thats poor.Posted December 27, 2012 5:29 am
The Mad Scientist
C’mon hecdog!, do you really have to ask why Manny keeps Alex Ariza around..its obvious Ariza is the biggest part of Pacquiao’s success since moving up in weight from 135 on up..please act like you know.Posted December 27, 2012 4:45 am
Herron says…. “I’m not going to name any names, but many wise people who have been in the industry for a very long time have regurgitated this sentiment as well.” Naturally you’re not going to name names.. You don’t want be slapped with a law suit—but I guess innuendo is perfectly acceptable to you.
No wise person regurgitates a blanket statement indicting an entire industry as illegal drug pushers.. Boxing is an industry and people who cardio-condition boxers and strength train boxers are a subset industry.. They shouldn’t be tarred with a broad brush, that’s wrong.Posted December 27, 2012 4:25 am
Herron says.., “The industry puts pressure on an athlete, just like the entertainment industry puts certain pressures on actresses and actors to look a certain part.” Ben Kingsley, George Clooney, Robert DeNiro, Daniel Day Lewis, Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, Jodie Foster, Kate Winslet, Hilary Swank, Charlize Theron etc. are all unique talents. They need to look the part the casting director agrees they’re a good match for—so that’s not an analogous comment. There’s pressure on athletes to win—but athletes at every level are sick to death of PEDs and cheating—when world famous athletes get caught it’s to the point of ridiculousness. And when you say, “Don’t try to make it seem like I’m being naive and ignorant.” I’m not trying… I’m nudging you to more balanced and thoughtful observations—than sweeping indictments such as, “Conditioning coaches are the drug pushers of boxing.” That’s like saying “politicians are crooks.” Narrow your strokes.Posted December 27, 2012 3:25 am
Alex Ariza is a complete idiot! Why Manny keeps this guy around is beyond me. Anyone with half a brain can realize that Ariza is nothing more than a wannabe star that is looking for fame. Freddie had it right earlier when he was going to cut him loose. He should have, all this idiot does is criticize Manny. He needs to stay away and let Freddie and his team work.Posted December 27, 2012 3:14 am
The Mad Scientist
If Alex Ariza who works as Manny Pacquiao’s strength and conditioning coach can recognize Memo’s work as being legit why cant the rest of you pactards do the same..?? I know it must be hard for the Pacquiao fanatics to deal with the fact a mexican fighter was greater during his era..pactards would’ve loved coming here years from now pulling Pacquiao’s name out of their asses to degrade the next crop of mexican fighters to come in the sport of boxing..thank you Dinamita for ridding us out that problem with the shot heard around the world.Posted December 27, 2012 3:00 am
The Mad Scientist
Hecdog like I said, I didn’t here you or the other pactards crying about guy’s like Angel Heredia working Marquez’s training camp until you and the rest of the turds experienced what Jinkee Pacquiao did shortly after her husband was dropped to his knees and ended up face flat, ass up in the canvas..where was your outcry about Memo working with Marquez for the 3rd fight and leading up to the fourth fight..all I ever heard from you (and the rest of the turds) was you weren’t interested in another Pac/Marq fight because it would just end the same disregarding what you fools already knew but didn’t seem to care too much about, and that’s Memo working with Marquez for another Pacquiao fight yet again..Posted December 27, 2012 2:32 am
what it boils down to is that Marquez was no cleaner or “dirtier” than Pacquiao*. Ariza’s praise of Heredia only confirms that they are both keenly aware of what the other is capable of doing. Marquez simply did it first because he’s better. IMO, if neither fighter requests improved testing, the question becomes moot. if one fighter requests it, there is no credible excuse for the other fighter to reject it. at best, it’s cause to suspect avoidance. at worst, it’s cause to suspect foul-play. the hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who maintained their neutrality and went along with Arum’s business as usual . . . unTil Marquez KTFO of Pacquiao*.Posted December 27, 2012 12:20 am
Tark, I’m not the only person who feels this way within the industry. I’m not going to name any names, but many wise people who have been in the industry for a very long time have regurgitated this sentiment as well.
The industry puts this pressure on an athlete, just like the entertainment industry puts certain pressures on actresses and actors to look a certain part.
When a fighter feels like he has to do something drastic to create that separation from his respective field and is presented with an option by a conditioning coach, many times the athlete will take it. I’ve spoken with fighters who merely trusted their conditioning coaches and ended up taking supplements they didn’t even realize were illegal.
That’s why I made my previous statement.
You can say whatever you want, but it happens within every sport…including boxing. You know this.
Don’t try to make it seem like I’m being naive or ignorant. If you deny what I know to be true, then it’s you who truly are the ignorant one.Posted December 26, 2012 11:15 pm
Herron says…, “Conditioning coaches are the drug pushers of boxing.”
Another broad brush statement… Herron, you should be ashamed of yourself for tarring an entire profession of mostly innocent men—but praising to the skies a convicted criminal money launderer and perfomance enhancing drug pusher like Victor Conte.Posted December 26, 2012 9:35 pm
The El Paso Fight Prophet
shut up stupidPosted December 26, 2012 9:02 pm
Herron says.., “Victor Conte is a great guy” ..I’m LMAO!!!! … Victor Conte is a convicted criminal and ex-con!!!! Conte was sentenced to prison for drug distribution and money laundering—but Conte had DOZENS of counts dropped in a plea bargain where he gave up names of athletes. He hasn’t reformed worth a nickel. What did Conte do for Andre Berto? Other guys who associate with Conte will eventually come up positive for PEDs, much to their surprise. They will turn up with loses, injuries, brittle bones, poor health, or other problems. Patrick Arnold was the organic chemist who created THG and other drugs Conte pushed. Conte himself knows little about PEDs and is NOT a chemist. Conte is a world class charmer, a pusher, and a con artist who convinces people he is extremely knowledgeable—but is not… And he will sell you out to save himself in a minute.Posted December 26, 2012 8:49 pm
Tumba’s warrior Margacheater went down the drain….. He then leaped on the Marquez bandwagon…. As long as its anybody that beat Pac… Tumba is a leaper… leap to whoever is winning at the moment…. Punk and patheticPosted December 26, 2012 8:24 pm
I do think PEDS are still a major problems in professional sports. There’s still plenty of fighters that have been busted, and others haven’t been caught do to their suppliers education on what they get tested for. Listen to both Victor Conte and Angel Hereida, and you will be surprised at how these suppliers are ahead of the testing. I recall the following fighters busted for Peds: Julio Cesar Chavez jr, Joan Guzman, Ali Funeka, Vernon Paris, Chad Dawson, Roy Jones, Fernando Vargas, Shane Mosely, james Toney, Ricardo Mayorga, Orlando Salido, Shannon Briggs and Omar Nino just to name a few. People will do almost anything to be at the top. How and when they will find a solution is anybody’s guess. I know one thing for sure. Boxing should never allow people like Angel Hereida to work with any boxer ever. They need to be banned for life. Asa matter of fact, he shouldn’t be allowed in any sports period.Posted December 26, 2012 8:14 pm
Herron…. I don’t believe that for a minute. The PED era was the 70′s when PEDs were legal. With the advent of testing PED use has been declining. The 2012 Olympics was the cleanest ever with the fewest positive tests—yet there were more Olympic and world records smashed than ever. The world and Olympic records set in the PED era, when Olympic athletes were LEGALLY ON PEDs look anemic nowadays. PED use also tends to shorten an athlete’s life and lead to heart and other health problems. Look at the hell Lance Armstrong is going through because he cheated… His disgrace is a big incentive to go clean.. And there’s no certainly Lance wouldn’t have won if he DIDN’T use PEDs.
Most boxers are saying, “To Hell with PEDs. I don’t need them or want them. I don’t need health issues, fines, or suspensions—or headlines and news stories calling me a cheat.”Posted December 26, 2012 7:32 pm
Riverside Nightmare eating burritos
WTF does the banter between Tumbo, Redmond, and Herron have to do with Bogue? LMFAO at these weenies who are badly in need of attention. Tumbo’s name should be Te Popo!!Posted December 26, 2012 7:12 pm
The current system of testing administered by the state athletic commissions are a joke. All of the fighters and conditioning coaches know it.
People are going to look back at this era in boxing like baseball fans look at the 90s. Instead of the “juiced ball era”, fight fans and boxing scribes will be calling this decade the juiced fighter era in boxing.
Conditioning coaches are the drug pushers of boxing.Posted December 26, 2012 6:43 pm
That was a great KO of Pac. Folks Ariza used to work with Herredia or what ever his name is. So if you are accusing JMM then don’t leave Pacs name out of it. As far as I am concerned the test came back clean so he was clean.Posted December 26, 2012 6:12 pm
All this crying about ped use is garbage JMM voiced over and over that he would take any test any time. THAT is something Pac has not done, Pac and company knew exactly who Heredia was and still chose not exercise olympic style testing. SO all this crying about JMM useing is a bunch of crap. Marquez is the man….periodPosted December 26, 2012 6:00 pm
i guess if they legalize peds then there would be no complaints…but fight results would be basically the same…..they don’t make a fighter more talented…most users have lost big fights anyway…so why all the complaints….we need to concentrate on praising our fighters for giving their all and not demean them just because our favorites didn’t win…i remember praising Pacman for not shooting Agapito Sanchez after he blatantly almost ruined him with headbutts, a real travesty….a real dirty fighter…and what happened to Sanchez in the end ?????Posted December 26, 2012 4:05 pm
zmos`let it go man, let it go haha!….eazy!Posted December 26, 2012 3:51 pm
rich` pacman lost get over it my man if marquez was on something then so was pacman but hey they both tested and came up clean let it go ,let it go ..i even said it twice for you like the movies haha!……yuuuup!Posted December 26, 2012 3:49 pm
Look guys, most peolple would be surprised to find out truly how many fighters were juicing right now. We have a choice…either continue to enjoy the sports we love or discontinue watching them because most ahtletes are taking PEDS to try and gain a separation from the rest of the pack.
I choose to continue watching and enjoying their performances.Posted December 26, 2012 3:29 pm
Angel is a professional masker when it comes to tests. This is why JMM looked so worried after the fight hoping those tests come out cleanPosted December 26, 2012 3:02 pm
People say JMM performance was a masterful one. Watch the fight and JMM was getting beat up. It was until that first knock down that I saw the power JMM had amazed me. How can a guy this late in his career have that much power like JMM did. Look up Angel Hernandez bio and you will see a full connection to steriods. All different types. The Marion Jones connection everything. This guy is not going to go clean for just one fight with JMM. JMM used PEDS no doubt. If your cheating in any sport your win should be erased like Lance Amrmstrong.Posted December 26, 2012 3:00 pm
The Mad Scientist
I find it funny how everyone forgets that Memo worked with Marquez for his 3rd fight against Pacquiao..as long as Manny got the decision in that fight the pactards didn’t seem to care much Heredia’s past..leading up to this fourth fight where was the outcry about having Memo removed from Marquez’s camp..well I guess as long as the Manny’s fanatics thought their idol had the fight in the bag or were sure thinking Marquez can’t dominate Pacquiao much less ktfo it really didn’t matter because god himself couldn’t help Dinamita in the pactards deluded minds.Posted December 26, 2012 2:56 pm
But, Tumbo…I’ve never written an article in which I publicly scrutinize Marquez…I’ve only stated this on the comment board and my radio show.
I’ve never written and article bashing Marquez, and I don’t like Pacquiao over Marquez or vice versa. I already know that most elite level fighters in the sport are taking some kind of supplement to enhance their performance.
It’s not just Pacquiao and Marquez…it’s a lot more than most realize…but I will never write about it.
No point.Posted December 26, 2012 2:50 pm
I really think te tumbo is Sredmond or vice versaPosted December 26, 2012 2:43 pm
“When have I ever bashed JMM on this forum or throughout any of my articles?” it’s not necessary to “bash” to risk discrediting a fighter of Marquez’s stature. particularly in the absence of equal scrutiny of Pacquiao* whose actually rejected improved testing and defeated naturally bigger (albeit carefully selected and compromised) opponents under the brightest PPV lights possible. it is this lack of balance that makes your scrutiny of Marquez seem like “bashing” by comparison. based on that scenario, i (and perhaps many other readers) am confident in concluding that —dirty or not— Pacquiao* is higher on your favorites list than Marquez. of course, as an opinion/editorial writer, you have no obligation to hide rather than assert your opinion but you shouldn’t be surpised when readers and passionate fight-fans dare question/challenge your rationale or lack thereof.Posted December 26, 2012 2:36 pm
Trust me, Tumbo…I know exactly what you mean. I talk to all of these guys at the events and most are such blow-hards who’ve never stepped foot in the ring. They’re nice people but feel they know more than the fighters, trainers, and promoters…it’s sickening.
I distinctly remember one writer who will remain nameless arguing with Emanuel Steward about how to properly cultivate a fighter…it was embarrassing.
Not a humble bone in most of these guys who are part of the Boxing Writers Association.Posted December 26, 2012 2:17 pm
Tumbo, I should expect you to misinterpret one of my statements, but I was actually giving JMM credit with that passage. It’s amazing, I’ve always been a huge fan of both JMM and Manny and have only written great things about Marquez’s performance.
When have I ever bashed JMM on this forum or throughout any of my articles?Posted December 26, 2012 2:11 pm
HERRON, the reason that ESB crushes other boxing sites in terms of traffic is because it trusts and respects fans of boxing. ugly warts and all. other sites are little more than showcases for aspiring writers. even though very few actually merit that title and I would Know because i’m a voracious reader. that is what most “writers” don’t realize or would rather ignore. it is ALways the reader who determines the writers NOT the other way around. embrace this principle like Mayweather and Marquez embrace improved testing. don’t be a suspect Pacquiao* and reject or resent increased scrutiny . . . Peace and Happy Holidays to you and yours.Posted December 26, 2012 2:09 pm
“Did anyone bother noticing how much punishment Marquez took leading up to the final seconds of the sixth round?” that is a shrill overstatement. Marquez was losing rounds but never the fight. in fact, he won 2/3 of the first five rounds and if he had only scored a KD in the 6th, it would’ve become a dead-even fight. besides, what boxing-ignoramASS dares count Marquez out of a 12-round fight, that is dead-even following the 6th, over a bloody nose? moreover, “Did anyone bother noticing” the lack of serious damage to Marquez’s face during the post-fight interviews? a small cut on the bridge of the nose and the standard swelling he’s experienced in every fight v. Pacquiao*. absolutely nothing that Marquez hasn’t overcome in previous fights v. various opponents for convincing wins or controversial “losses”. anyway, the entire topic is moot thanks to Marquez’s premeditated fight-plan of marching through fire to deliver that singular punch to Pacquiao’s* face and earning the “W” in a manner that exceeded everybody’s imagination, including mine.Posted December 26, 2012 2:01 pm
Btw, Floyd and Marquez also get full credit for alternately mandating and welcoming improved testing for their biggest fights. conversely, “Dirty or not”, Pacquiao* is the only fighter to reject improved testing. not even for a $25-$50 million, the opportunity to KTFO of his primary P4P rival, and enduring P4P glory. having eagerly faced both P4P rivals, Marquez has claimed that prestige for himself withOut the monetary compensation. Marquez is and always has been the greater fighter.Posted December 26, 2012 1:48 pm
Sredmond my question to you like the other poster is why didnt Marquez use another training conditioning coach? Why did it have to be someone like angel that has a bad history REALLY BAD history od ped dealing and developing. Marquez really put his neck out on this one Sredmond. Why is it all of a sudden Marqeuz has a different body and power in this fight than his whole career????? Come on Sredmond dont you see the connection come on !Posted December 26, 2012 1:45 pm
i’ve always commended the nerve of many ESB hacks for the transparent bias and double-standards that frequently emerge in their articles. of course, part of that praise has to do with their willingness to present their butts as dartboards for ESB posters, a few of whom also happen to be experienced, knowledgeable, and passionate fight-fans. accordingly, Herron gets full credit for satisfying every point of that criteria with this article. fortunately, Marquez welcomes the extra scrutiny with what i believe is only 99.99% certainty that he (and Pacquiao*) is 100% clean. in fact, if #1 P4P Mayweather must be villianized for demanding OSTing and Marquez discredited for utterly demolishing St. Pacquiao* for my favorite sport to finally clean-up it’s act, then so be it. after all, it’s the sport not the individual fighters that matters most but until solid evidence of foul-play emerges, Pacquiao* remains suspect for being the only fighter to reject OSTing and Marquez and Mayweather are fully deserving of their P4P and elite status.Posted December 26, 2012 1:37 pm
Joseph, I am just having fun poking holes in the thinly veiled bias of a HACK ESB writer don’t feel bad about my commentary or train of logic you just needed and education… AGAIN where was the outcry about Heredia during the 3rd fight where the world turned on Manny (Unfairly) and JMM was the sympathetic figure…??? The MINUTE that Pacquiao walked into a PEFECT shot that no injection, cream, clear or masking agent can teach you the conspiracy theorists and rumor mongers began seeking to detract from his accomplishment… Including HBO HACKS Lampley and Merchant as well as pin head writers who don’t know a damn thing about science and just tossout the available results we have to work off… Marquez does not deserve such lowly treatment he has been a CLEAN fighter in and out of the ring as we have known it for 60 pro contests, he got his the hard way and BUMS want to tear him down… Shameful!Posted December 26, 2012 12:19 pm
Heredia turned states evidence and the guy would be UNDER the jail if he got caught supplying an athlete with PED’s at this point (alot of risk) despite his sorted past the guy has the credentials and education to effectively operate in the capacity of a strength trainer.. Marquez has ALWAYS been dedicated to his craft and now he shifted his focus to building muscle while using a more scientific approach (dropping the piss and rocks) in lieu of explosive movements and adding lean muscle… The idea that an elite athlete cannot build muscle is simply a joke, on his best day Marquez is a LITTLE man he would look like a dwarf to me as would Pacquiao… Marquez built his armor and leveled his opponent and is entitled to his just rewards… Marquez knocked out a former LITTLE man, whereas Manny was stopping and beating up BIGGER men 3 of his opponents had to move up to 154 due to their natural size… Clottey, Cotto and Margo….Posted December 26, 2012 12:07 pm
Joseph Herron, did or did I NOT mention the Heredia affiliation and my thoughts on that?? What YOU and others fail to mention is that there was NONE of this firestorm when Marquez had Heredia in his camp last time and simply to many gave Manny a boxing lesson (I saw a tossup fight) the minute he lights out Manny P suddenly tunes have changed..I am big on scientific evidence where are all the super Champions knocking out guys who are testing positive for PED’s.??? In 2010 Keith Kizer said around 60 boxers at the time has been caught using and MOST ironically had LOST their fights… The accusations around Marquez are being inflamed by the crushing nature of his performance or he would not have been a sympathetic fighter post Marquez/Pacquiao 3 because Manny was left on his feet..Many peoples Fighter of the Year (Donaire) was working with Conte and I did not hear these accusations flying..Posted December 26, 2012 12:02 pm
SREDMOND, you’re not taking one very important factor here under serious consideration. Make no mistake about this…the only reason why anyone, journalists included, are forced to make the PED connection with JMM, is because of his affiliation with a proven drug cheat in Angel Heredia. If that isn’t a smoking gun, then I really don’t know what is.
Can you name a legitimate smoking gun in the case of Manny Pacquiao besides his appearance and his performances? Only the idea that he denied the opportunity to submit to random drug testing.
But none more incriminating than JMM’s decision to work with a foul character like Angel Heredia. He scoffs at the current drug testing in boxing and is proud of the fact that he can successfully mask PEDs in the current format.
Ask yourself, with all of the various conditioning coaches available in sports today, why would JMM choose to work with a man like Angel Heredia? There’s only one clear reason why anyone would choose to work with a man of his reputation and track record.
The answer is pretty obvious to those who aren’t blind or nuthugging.Posted December 26, 2012 11:56 am
Note Pascal acussed Hopkins of steriods. When Hopkins heard that he went crazy over that. Hopkins is already a dirty fighter. Most of your sports figures today takes drugs to perform better. New performance drugs today are harder to detect than ever before.Posted December 26, 2012 11:46 am
Juan says that power was from hard work Lol then what was Juan doing in his other fights before that ???? Slacking off in training ? So Juan is saying now he’s training hard for that last fight. Doesnt make sense. What makes sense is he was on performance enchancment Drugs thats what makes sense. Lance Armstrong tested cleaned and every teamamte saw him take the drugs.Posted December 26, 2012 11:43 am
That single punch would of never mattered if the POWER wasn’t behind JMM’s punch. There should of been olympic drug testing all along. JMM could of picked another conditioning NON controversial training coach. He picked Angel because Angel “AS THEY SAY IN THE PED WORLD” has the GOOD STUFFPosted December 26, 2012 11:40 am
Marquez should no more be considered “Dirty” than should Pacquiao who has been subject to rumours ever since Floyd started pointing the finger when he moved up in weight and stopped Cotto and ODH…I guys only want performances that fit their preconcieved narratives ie Pac and Marquez have to have close fights, or Manny CANNOT hit the canvas then they should seriously stop watching boxing and sports period… Go see a rerun of an old movie if you need to know the outcome…Manny thought he knew what was going to happen and he got careless, the rest is now historyPosted December 26, 2012 11:32 am
Joseph Herron, while we agree on the magnitude of Marquez win and him deserving “Fighter of the Year” I take exception with the insinuations that he might be dirty or have taken advantage of standard testing… GREAT fighters have been stopped before and they will be stopped again and in case you were not aware the same punch by the same fighter in a different round or night can do the job…The FACT that Marquez employed Heredia makes me more comfortable with the scenario because if JMM was going to cheat why not keep this hot potato in the background and put another man out front as strength coach?? In case you guys did not notice the guys testing positive are not working with Heredia or Conte, I know your NEXT retort will be these guys are masters at masking, NEWFLASH this is the information age and a motivated cheater does not need a guy with a Nobel Prize or PHD to try and get over… Marquez deserves full respect!Posted December 26, 2012 11:28 am
To all posters who continue to insist that Mares deserved to win the Fighter of the Year award for 2012, please give me one performance that had as much impact on the entire world of boxing as Marquez’s one punch knock-out over one of the most heralded fighters of our time?
No doubt, Mares had a breakthrough year with his victories over Morel and Moreno at 122 pounds, and James Gogue was very clear in recognizing him as well as many other fighters who did a lot for the sport in 2012. You could make a solid case for Donaire, Broner, Trout, and Danny Garcia winning the award as well.
But nothing they did compares to JMM cracking Pacquiao and putting him to sleep with one shot.
As far as the PED argument, you can blame Arum for not implementing random, Olympic style drug testing for his man’s fight. Obviously, the Bobinator saw what random VADA drug testing did for two highly publicized Golden Boy events this year and elected not to take that chance. There was too much money invoolved in the promotion of this event and he didn’t want to risk either fighter testing postitive and cancelling the entire event.
If you’re JMM, and you find out that your opponent, who’s been mired in this controversy for years, is claiming to the media that he’s going to finally knock you out, while Pacquiao’s promoter openly decides not to implement random drug testing for the event…what would you do?
Until Marquez pulls a Barry Bonds and admits that he “unknowingly” took performance enhancing drugs, every fight fan has a choice…assume the worst, or love the sport.
Take your pick.
Dirty or not, JMM still had to walk through fire to deliver that singular punch to the jaw of Manny Pacquiao. Did anyone bother noticing how much punsihment Marquez took leading up to the final seconds of the sixth round?
How many fighters of his stature are willing to take that kind of beating these days? JMM is a legend of the sport and his 2012 accomplishments support that statement.Posted December 26, 2012 8:15 am
HE wins one fight out of four,under dubious circumstances and expects an award….who has he fought in the last 2 years…..what a joke…should have had Olympic testing…Posted December 26, 2012 8:10 am
Gonzo…Show some style you nerd…..at least wash that t-shirt..Posted December 26, 2012 8:04 am
How can a you give an award to a PED user like Juan PEDDER MarquezPosted December 26, 2012 6:16 am
Guess what fightfan u can cry all u want about low blows Mares keeps winning so all ur crying changes nothing an he sure don’t need or care to have ur respect, Mares fights the best an beats them.Posted December 26, 2012 5:33 am
100% JMM deserve to be nominated of Best Fighter of the Year!Posted December 26, 2012 5:26 am
HERRON, this article reeks of “nationalistic bias”. you obviously just favor the “Mexican” fighters . . . (???) . . . wait a minute(?) . . . i guess since you’re not “Mexican” you’re just being honest, objective, and fair(?) . . . never mind.Posted December 26, 2012 4:01 am
Gonzo the Dragonborn – ESB poster of the Century
I’ve only posted that pic in about 4 or 5 of the comment sections. I would’ve posted it in all of them but I decided against it as I thought that seemed a little vain and egotistical.Posted December 26, 2012 1:53 am
Apparently Daniel was confused; this award was for fighter of the year, not dirtiest fighter of the year. Mares does more ball handling in one night than Rajon Rondo does in an entire season.Posted December 26, 2012 1:43 am
Couldn’t agree more with you Bognshavin, Mares is a dirty, albeit talented fighter. I would respect him much more as a man if he stopped smashing balls like Rapheal Nadal.Posted December 26, 2012 1:41 am
Gonzo the Dragonborn – ESB poster of the Century
Seasons greetings one and all. Just dropping by to deliver a little present for my adoring and ever loyal fanbase. Enjoy! http://imageshack.us/f/577/rawmasculinity.jpg/Posted December 26, 2012 1:16 am
Mares does too many low blows and should start to get punished for it, while he has done very well the low blows tarnish his achievements and in a few cases he should have clearly been penalised.Posted December 26, 2012 1:10 am
This writer an so many ppl have no clue how to pick fighter of the year. Marquez, Pac was one fight idiots lol u can make that fight of the yr but u can’t give Marquez fighter of the yr off one fight. Abner Mares is my pick ppl were calling Moreno the best an he couldn’t be hit Mares hit an dropped Moreno to win, also easily beat a top fighter Agbeko an finished off Morel.Posted December 26, 2012 12:58 am
Whats funny is flomo’s try to portray that Pac was a fraud and fake yet JMM gets Gogue fighter of the year for that win lmaoPosted December 26, 2012 12:37 am
Abner Mares deserves to be fighter of the year. He has surpassed all expectations, and he remains unbeaten fighting the top guys in the division, and calling out the flake Donaire.Posted December 26, 2012 12:03 am
Why people stealing my posts and posting as Anonymous?Posted December 25, 2012 11:58 pm
PEDcquiao is Clean
JMM is forty years old and beat a wannabe ATG in his prime. JMM put the fool to sleep and didn’t set the alarm clock!Posted December 25, 2012 11:35 pm
You guys are funny! Look at the year that Mares had and the year that JMM had. It’s not close. Mares was a beast.Posted December 25, 2012 11:06 pm
hecdog, give it a rest…Juan knocked the fighter of the decade TFO!!Posted December 25, 2012 11:02 pm
agree jmm deserves it great jobPosted December 25, 2012 10:58 pm
I’ll have to disagree on this pick. Juan Manuel Marquez beat the invincible Manny Pacquiao in a stunning fashion, but I don’t think one fight can is enough to warrant being chosen Fighter Of The Year. Marquez beat some guy named Serhig Fedchenko in Mexico, lost to Manny Pacquiao in Las Vegas and beat Manny Pacquiao in Las Vegas. Abner Mares on the other hand IMO is more deserving of this award. He has been on a tear for the last two years, and in 2012, he beat a former champion in Eric Morel, former champion and highly touted Joseph Agbeko and highly touted unbeaten champion Anselmo Moreno. All three opponents are world class, and two of them are currently highly ranked. The quality of opponents Mares went through, and his victories and unbeaten record is enough to reward him Fighter Of The Year.Posted December 25, 2012 10:18 pm