Told yall Rafa was chinny.

[the_what]

No way was he going to stand up to Vazquez who came out like an animal since the opening round.

Now on to the rubbermatch. :happy

[Nico]

I wouldn't call him "chinny," if that means that he has a bad chin. He has a good chin. Not great, but good.

[BigReg]

I don't think he's chinny, I think he needs to keep his hands up. You can't keep takin left hooks flush to the chin

[the_what]

Chinny as in, its going to be a war. So expect Rafa to hit the deck. Been saying it since before the first fight. Marquez got lucky the first fight ended on Vazquez broken nose. :yep

[nervousxtian]

STFU. He ain't chinny, he just was in the FOTY so far, and you already gotta talk shit about one of the guys in it.

[the_what]

STFU. He ain't chinny, he just was in the FOTY so far, and you already gotta talk shit about one of the guys in it.

People been saying he was chinny for the past 6 years. Its nothing new.

[Zakman]

No way was he going to stand up to Vazquez who came out like an animal since the opening round.

Now on to the rubbermatch. :happy

After what happened tonight, I'm beginning to think you're right. Boy, was I wrong about Marquez. His chin is, at minimum, suspect.

[nervousxtian]

Dude took some major league blows up until that point though. Can't call that chinny, but he got hit too much, I seriously think he thought he could take out Vasquez, but man.. some of those shots Vasquez too.... got-damn those were brutal.. the kind of shots that would of KO'd almost anyone else.

[Goose]

He wasnt Chinny, Vazquez just hits so hard.

[JMotrain]

After what happened tonight, I'm beginning to think you're right. Boy, was I wrong about Marquez. His chin is, at minimum, suspect.

I dont think his chin is that bad. Vasquez can crack and is the naturally bigger man. RM got rocked pretty hard but stayed on his feet.

RM got hurt really bad in the sixth, but got up. His chin I'd say is average. I don't know if he has ever been counted out, the true mark of a chinamen.

[nervousxtian]

I've been saying Israel Vasquez was p4p top 10 for awhile, but people never believed my ass.

[Betty Swollocks]

yeah his chin is not the best and he should have NEVER been ranked above his brother p4p. I like R.Marquez, but he got overrated

[Pimp C]

His chin is average at best.

[IntentionalButt]

Both guys have very, very good chins. Not titanium, but pretty fucking good world-championship caliber chins.

[brooklyn1550]

His chin is decent...he stood up to some big shots. Not a great chin, but okay.

[Zakman]

IRM got hurt really bad in the sixth, but got up. His chin I'd say is average. I don't know if he has ever been counted out, the true mark of a chinamen.

Oh I fully agree with you there - the true glass jaw is somebody like Rahman, who goes down for the ten count and doesn't move. That's why I said "suspect" or maybe "shaky" is a better designation.

[Toopretty]

His chin is ok, his defense is full of holes. I love Marquez you evil doer. He is not overrated, and the best offensive fighter to me. He dont move his head and he is open to a left hook at any moment. That being said he is still a monster...RESPECT

[Alo2006]

Chinny, that's an negative. Lets not go overboard here. IV just landed some great shots on Marquez. Marquez will be back in the triology :yep

[dranon]

i dont think very many people would have ate that left hook well....not a matter of chin as much as just being a human

[the_what]

I dont think 'chinny' is that bad of a term. Corrales was chinny. So was Felix Trinidad. Its a term for fighters that tend to get dropped a lot in fights. And with Vasquez power, I didnt expect Rafa to get up. He did and continued get that ass beat. I expect Vasquez to do the same in the rubbermatch.

[IntentionalButt]

Why can't Rafa still be a great, p4p ranked fighter after losing to another great, should-be-p4p-ranked fighter? I love them both, and was rooting for Izzy both times out. Had Rafa ahead on the cards in the first fight, and Izzy ahead in this one. They are the #1 and #2 SBWs in the world. Both Izzy and Rafa are greater punchers for their weight than any top-ranked fighter at higher weights, this is a fact. For either one of them to be TKO'ed by the other should not diminish their standing in anyone's eyes, or lead to any idiotic questioning of chins. Zakman, I'm real fucking disappointed in you, it is completely immature and irresponsible for you to spout this bullshit right now. Give Vaz his credit for unloading a truckload of perfect hooks, hustling his way in and breaking down a great fighter with a decent but leaky defense.

Any fucking little bandwagon jumpers who didn't say that Rafa had a bad chin before tonight need to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[SOUTHERMOST]

Tremendous display of speed and power on both side we have a trilogy in the making this kind of fights you don't want any interruption if you try to compare both brothers Rafael is more excitant because he risk more and better power his chin is average.

[Toopretty]

Rafael is still a great fighter no matter what. The what...I dont like you for dwelling on the negative..Raf dont deserve any humiliation. He fought like a damned lion. He was halfway knocked out since the 5th round. Legs wobbly as shit and was still dangerous.

[IntentionalButt]

For some reason I expected to come on ESB and see a bunch of praise and much-deserved two-way nuthugging, maybe a little stoppage controversy banter, predictions for the rubbermatch.

I did NOT expect lame fucking excuses for the outcome of the fight. I guess maybe I overestimated the lowest common denominator around here.

[Morrissey]

He is chinny.

If you have been downed several times before, you got to have a bad chin...:yep

Compare that to JMM, who has been downed only by two boxers in his career.

Live with that. He has a suspect chin.

[the_what]

Wow. You guys are too over sensitive. Chinny is not a bad term for a fighter. My favorite fighters have all been known to be chinny i.e. Diego Corrales and Felix Trinidad.

It was an observation that I made before the fight, and some posters dismissed it. Im just getting my 'Told you so' on before I go out an drink.

[Zakman]

Why can't Rafa still be a great, p4p ranked fighter after losing to another great, should-be-p4p-ranked fighter? I love them both, and was rooting for Izzy both times out. Had Rafa ahead on the cards in the first fight, and Izzy ahead in this one. They are the #1 and #2 SBWs in the world. Both Izzy and Rafa are greater punchers for their weight than any top-ranked fighter at higher weights, this is a fact. For either one of them to be TKO'ed by the other should not diminish their standing in anyone's eyes, or lead to any idiotic questioning of chins. Zakman, I'm real fucking disappointed in you, it is completely immature and irresponsible for you to spout this bullshit right now. Give Vaz his credit for unloading a truckload of perfect hooks, hustling his way in and breaking down a great fighter with a decent but leaky defense.

Any fucking little bandwagon jumpers who didn't say that Rafa had a bad chin before tonight need to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Hey alll I'm saying is that this shows it to be a little suspect, not glass. Look at my post. The more times a guy hits the canvas or gets stopped, you have to reevaluate.

I like the Marquez brothers - they're top level fighters who give their all every time out. I followed 'em since they were on the Great Western Forum network (or whatever it was called) in the 1990s - and I picked Raphael to win this fight.

[HECDAWG]

marquez took alot of big clean shots so i dont know about chinny. Jason Shitzou and Fraudley are chinny.

[IntentionalButt]

Hey alll I'm saying is that this shows it to be a little suspect, not glass. Look at my post. The more times a guy hits the canvas or gets stopped, you have to reevaluate.

I like the Marquez brothers - they're top level fighters who give their all every time out. I followed 'em since they were on the Great Western Forum network (or whatever it was called) in the 1990s - and I picked Raphael to win this fight.

This thread just had me boiling before I opened it and then to see someone whose opinion I respect agreeing with the sentiment...I blew up. :yep

Thing is, shot or not, Pac drilled Morales and he's still regarded as having an ATG chin. Vazquez and Marquez both hit harder p4p than Pacquiao and nobody can convince me otherwise until he actually fights one of them head to head at a catchweight (or shares a common opponent in their prime with either one of them for comparative purposes). So two guys who in fact hit harder than the guy considered by casual fans and certain HBO commentators to be the most exciting and brutal puncher in the sport should probably be assumed to be able to KO/TKO just about anybody, right? And somebody who takes six or seven rounds of hard shots from either one of these guys (who in my opinion p4p make Pac seem feather-fisted...the same Pac who drilled a ATG-chin holder in Morales - alright, a fading Morales but nonetheless the same man whose chin had held up in furious wars within the preceding couple of years...) should be considered to have a VERY GOOD but not granite and certainly crackable (provided you have world-class crack and accuracy) chin.

[Fedor Em]

Izzy is a HUGE puncher, I would give Rafa's chin about a 5 or 6 out of 10. Definately not class but not granite either.

[a.arthur.h]

After taking the amount of unblocked hooks from a guy with the power Vasquez has anyone is going to the deck. From the first he was leaving himself open for the left hook and repeatedly got hammered with it throughout the fight. He took some absolutely sick shots, I think it was simply a matter of accumulation, because he was just not there after that knockdown in the sixth.

He certainly doesn't have a great chin. I'd say average. But to call him chinny..I guess it depends on your defenition of "chinny". I consider that to be an Allen Green. Pure china reserved for those like Audley, Litzau, Codrington, etc.

Marquez is average or slightly below in my eyes.

[Zakman]

He certainly doesn't have a great chin. I'd say average. But to call him chinny..I guess it depends on your defenition of "chinny". I consider that to be an Allen Green. Pure china reserved for those like Audley, Litzau, Codrington, etc.

Marquez is average or slightly below in my eyes.

That's reasonable - it's pretty much what I meant when I said shaky. CLEARLY Raphael isn't Fraudley, Litzau or Codrington territory - he woulda been out cold in the first minute of the fight! :lol:

[4Rounder]

Not chinny, Marquez has a good chin, Vazquez is also a huge puncher.

[IntentionalButt]

Not chinny, Marquez has a good chin, Vazquez is also a huge puncher.
:good I'm glad some cooler heads are prevailing here. Leave it to ESB to come up with the goofiest screwball horseshit and have people go "Hm, you know that's a good point :think"

[Boom_Boom]

you people under appreciate Izzy's power

Larios,Gonzalez,and now Marquez

who does he have to KO to get recognition...Mayweather?

[WhataRock]

He has been ko'd before, this is no mystery.
But he wouldnt be where he is if he was "chinny", not with the way he fights.

At bantam he was usually ridiculously bigger than his opponants, moving up and against Vasquez he was less of a monster.
Cant wait to see this fight, Ill be watching by tonight.

[TIGEREDGE]

Exhaustion And The Cut Played A Role His Decline. He Took Siome Great Shots

[warchild]

I'm not sure that Marquez has a shaky chin....probably more like a shaky defense.

[Chert]

yep. i did suspect that rafa had a shaky chin... all his losses were via KO/TKO before he fought vasquez.

[IntentionalButt]

I'm not sure that Marquez has a shaky chin....probably more like a shaky defense.

occasionally lapse defense would be the perfect way to put it. he gets ahead of himself and starts thinking a few steps forward offensively, that's usually when he gets rocked while too deep in thought, and whenever he gets rocked he has some difficulty pulling himself together.

[Toopretty]

Marquez defense is shaky not his chin..god damn shut up. And intetional butt I do agree that both hit harder the pacman. More one punch power from both guys. Pac has the edge on speed.

[IntentionalButt]

Marquez defense is shaky not his chin..god damn shut up. And intetional butt I do agree that both hit harder the pacman. More one punch power from both guys. Pac has the edge on speed.

he's got more speed in combinations, which is flashier and impresses judges. but both israel and rafael can wing out a single power shot just as fast if not faster than pac.

[digiram]

Chinny????

C'mon man. He was hit by one of the best left hooks in the game by a guy that's naturally bigger.

[warchild]

I was looking at Marquez' record, and his first pro fight was a KO loss to former champion and veteran of many title fights Victor Rabanales....I don't understand what his handlers were thinking....I'm sure that they were confident in his abilities, but what a way to start a career....he should probably get a free pass on that one.

[IntentionalButt]

I was looking at Marquez' record, and his first pro fight was a KO loss to former champion and veteran of many title fights Victor Rabanales....I don't understand what his handlers were thinking....I'm sure that they were confident in his abilities, but what a way to start a career....he should probably get a free pass on that one.

And apparently there was some controversy as to whether that was an official sanctioned bout or an exhibition. In the record books obviously it's listed as official, but from what I remember reading about it, his people didn't think it was anything but an exhibition at the time.

[warchild]

And apparently there was some controversy as to whether that was an official sanctioned bout or an exhibition. In the record books obviously it's listed as official, but from what I remember reading about it, his people didn't think it was anything but an exhibition at the time.

Interesting. It sounds like someone forgot to tell Rabanales that it was an exhibition.

[Lampley]

I don't think he's chinny (which, to me, means having a poor chin), but is just average.

More than his chin, I think his recovery time is the bigger culprit.

[IntentionalButt]

I don't think he's chinny (which, to me, means having a poor chin), but is just average.

More than his chin, I think his recovery time is the bigger culprit.
I think some people lump this in with chin, but a clear distinction should absolutely be made between punch resistance and recovery time. It would take a very hard hitter to rock Rafael, but every time a hard hitter catches him he will be in some degree of trouble.

[Alo2006]

I dont think 'chinny' is that bad of a term. Corrales was chinny. So was Felix Trinidad. Its a term for fighters that tend to get dropped a lot in fights. And with Vasquez power, I didnt expect Rafa to get up. He did and continued get that ass beat. I expect Vasquez to do the same in the rubbermatch.

Marquez will come back even strong to win in this triology :yep

[Sonny Carson]

Very average chin.

[Marcus]

He wasnt Chinny, Vazquez just hits so hard.

Your right :good

Fuck im happy :happy

[SOUTHERMOST]

Both guys got hurt few times Israel did not looked very good bleeding from both eyes the difference was his recuperation and think Raf forgat his jab let's see what kind of adjustment in the third fight.

[Chert]

izzy does seem to have a better chin than rafa. in their two fights, it's 3-0 in KDs in favor of izzy.