Top Ten mixed martial arts fighters of all time

[The Phenom]

:think

[rydersonthestorm]

in no order
fedor
randy
wandy
bj penn
royce
coleman
chuck
big nog
hughes
faber

[The Phenom]

in no order
fedor
randy
wandy
bj penn
royce
coleman
chuck
big nog
hughes
faber
Rutten,Severn???

[rydersonthestorm]

i wouldn't have rutten in there but severn might kick out faber, rutten is one of my favourite of all time but i don't think he beat enough top guys to be all time and he lost to randleman no matter what the records say.

[The Phenom]

i wouldn't have rutten in there but severn might kick out faber, rutten is one of my favourite of all time but i don't think he beat enough top guys to be all time and he lost to randleman no matter what the records say.
Urijah Faber:yikes that guy has never been in the p4p top three or four has he.

[rydersonthestorm]

Urijah Faber:yikes that guy has never been in the p4p top three or four has he.
yeah but he is the best featherweight of all time and i think he will go onto be one of the ten best ever, i think i should remove him for severn for the time being.

[rydersonthestorm]

also torres would have to be pretty close with faber as well for the lower weight guys.

[El Puma]

Uhm... where is Frank Shamrock?

[El Puma]

Sakuraba not being there also cheapens the list imho.

[rydersonthestorm]

Uhm... where is Frank Shamrock?
shouldn't be on the list

[rydersonthestorm]

Sakuraba not being there also cheapens the list imho.
yeah that was a dumb mistake he needs to be on the list instead of faber or severn.

[El Puma]

shouldn't be on the listHe was the first true all around MMA fighter and beat some of the best at the time in dominant fashion.

[jimmie]

shouldn't be on the list

Very true.

[El Puma]

Very true.:huhBut, he's got Coleman on there. I could be blinded by my liking for Frank but, why should he not be on that list?

[rydersonthestorm]

:huhBut, he's got Coleman on there. I could be blinded by my liking for Frank but, why should he not be on that list?
the reason i have coleman on there is he was the first guy to be champion in both pride and ufc, frank lost to alot of different fighters even in his younger years. Although coleman lost a few before he leftufc to come back and win the pride heavyweight gp is quite a big win.

[El Puma]

the reason i have coleman on there is he was the first guy to be champion in both pride and ufc, frank lost to alot of different fighters even in his younger years. Although coleman lost a few before he leftufc to come back and win the pride heavyweight gp is quite a big win.:thinkThat is true and beating Igor to win it all at Pride is HUGE but, Frank lost to Bas rutten when he was still relatively green and never lost in the UFC. His standing would have been greater had he taken on and beat Sakuraba and Rickson. Other than those two, who else could he have fought?

[rydersonthestorm]

Loses to guys like john lober don't do frank any favours in my opinion and also ducking out of fighting anyone half decent for half of his fighting career. His best win is the tito one and then he didn't do anything after that, i think he ahd the talent to carry on being a top fighter but if you don't fight anyone decent for such a long time it has got to drop you in the all time list.

[El Puma]

Loses to guys like john lober don't do frank any favours in my opinion and also ducking out of fighting anyone half decent for half of his fighting career. His best win is the tito one and then he didn't do anything after that, i think he ahd the talent to carry on being a top fighter but if you don't fight anyone decent for such a long time it has got to drop you in the all time list.:think Yes, he did improve by leaps and bounds in the rematch and spanked Lober. We lost out on some great fights because of his feud with the UFC and I'll have to revisit the specifics on the Shammy-Sak negotiations and why that did not come off.

Frank was rather small for Middleweight and he still mowed through the best that would get in there with him, and lets not forget that young tito (pre-injuries) was a fucking beast.

[rydersonthestorm]

I would say that frank is a much more talented fighter than coleman but the ufc and pride belts just have him up on my all time list. The one thing i can't understand is how i forgot to put sak on there that is the major crime of the list. What would your al time list be?

[sugarngold]

In no particular order:

Rickson Gracie
Fedor Emelianenko
Sakuraba
Royce Gracie
Randy Couture
Frank Shamrock
Chuck Liddell
Wanderlai Silva
Antonio Noguiera
Maurice Smith

[El Puma]

I would say that frank is a much more talented fighter than coleman but the ufc and pride belts just have him up on my all time list. The one thing i can't understand is how i forgot to put sak on there that is the major crime of the list. What would your al time list be?

In no order (for now)

1. Hughes (greatest welter all time)

2. Fedor (nuff said)

3. Sak (took on everyone who dared get in there)

4.Frank Shamrock (:D)

5. Wandy (frigging beast)

6. Randy Couture (The Hop of MMA and will surprise the heck out of us all by beating Lesnar with conditioning and dirty boxing)

7. BJ Penn

8.Royce Gracie (pioneer in the modern MMA and some very good wins)

9.GSP (sneaks in with a very impressive resume and skillset, and is nowhere near done.)

10. Uriah Faber (The Ricardo Lopez of MMA)

[El Puma]

In no particular order:

Rickson Gracie
Fedor Emelianenko
Sakuraba
Royce Gracie
Randy Couture
Frank Shamrock
Chuck Liddell
Wanderlai Silva
Antonio Noguiera
Maurice SmithI respectfully disagree with Rickson and Mo' Smith being on that list as thier resumes are very thin in MMA com.

[rydersonthestorm]

In no particular order:

Rickson Gracie
Fedor Emelianenko
Sakuraba
Royce Gracie
Randy Couture
Frank Shamrock
Chuck Liddell
Wanderlai Silva
Antonio Noguiera
Maurice Smith
hwo come you have rickson on there when he has never really fought anyone

[sugarngold]

hwo come you have rickson on there when he has never really fought anyone
Because it's my list.

First of all - he defeated everyone in jiujitsu in Brazil during his formative years. He defeated every rival opponent of lute livre in Brazil as well as the infamous streetfighter Zulu - not once - but twice. He fought in quiet back room smokers in the US for years converting every martial artist he could slap a rear naked choke on to train in Brazilian Jiujitsu.

Second of all - he was instrumental in helping build the worldwide foundation of MMA. He would have fought in the UFC if he hadn't been told to step aside for Royce to fight. He trained Royce for all his early fights in the UFC and the entirety of the Pride organization was created to defeat Rickson. It's always a shame that Rickson wasn't able to fight more fighters as MMA developed - but he was aging and on the verge of retirement by the time MMA evolved.

[rydersonthestorm]

Because it's my list.

First of all - he defeated everyone in jiujitsu in Brazil during his formative years. He defeated every rival opponent of lute livre in Brazil as well as the infamous streetfighter Zulu - not once - but twice. He fought in quiet back room smokers in the US for years converting every martial artist he could slap a rear naked choke on to train in Brazilian Jiujitsu.

Second of all - he was instrumental in helping build the worldwide foundation of MMA. He would have fought in the UFC if he hadn't been told to step aside for Royce to fight. He trained Royce for all his early fights in the UFC and the entirety of the Pride organization was created to defeat Rickson. It's always a shame that Rickson wasn't able to fight more fighters as MMA developed - but he was aging and on the verge of retirement by the time MMA evolved.
he was able to fight more but decided not to i agree with your points on himbeing an excellent martial artist and helping to build the mma game but he really never fought anyone of note so i find it hard to say he is one of the best ever.

[sugarngold]

he was able to fight more but decided not to i agree with your points on himbeing an excellent martial artist and helping to build the mma game but he really never fought anyone of note so i find it hard to say he is one of the best ever.

I don't discount his victories in Brazil - the cradle of MMA - as some fans do. These weren't just karate guys that didn't know how to grapple. They were mixed martial artists and he beat everyone there was to beat at that time.

[El Puma]

Head to head I have Sak,Bas, and Couture beating rickson.

[rydersonthestorm]

I don't discount his victories in Brazil - the cradle of MMA - as some fans do. These weren't just karate guys that didn't know how to grapple. They were mixed martial artists and he beat everyone there was to beat at that time.
top guys like unskilled zulu, they were not true mmma guys the game has changed so much from when he was around. In terms of age it did stop randy fighitng the top modern guys i know rickson is a little older than randy but that wouldn't have stopped him fighint guys like markk kerr, sak, coleman etc.

[sugarngold]

Head to head I have Sak,Bas, and Couture beating rickson.

They all certainly had a chance - but head to head I think Rickson would have subbed them all. ASide from Sakuraba - Rutten and Couture were all subbed by lesser submission fighters than Rickson. Inoue was one of Rickson's students at one time and he armbarred Couture in no time flat.

It's all conjecture at this point. Although there have been rumors of Rickson looking for one last fight - it is not going to happen.

[sugarngold]

top guys like unskilled zulu, they were not true mmma guys the game has changed so much from when he was around. In terms of age it did stop randy fighitng the top modern guys i know rickson is a little older than randy but that wouldn't have stopped him fighint guys like markk kerr, sak, coleman etc.

Unskilled fighters are still dangerous and Zulu was one of them. Take Zulu out of the equation and you still have Rickson's rivals from the other jiujitsu and lute livre schools. The lute livre guys espoused the notion that gi training was useless and that fighters should train muay thai as well as jiujitsu. They were mized martial artists.

[rydersonthestorm]

Unskilled fighters are still dangerous and Zulu was one of them. Take Zulu out of the equation and you still have Rickson's rivals from the other jiujitsu and lute livre schools. The lute livre guys espoused the notion that gi training was useless and that fighters should train muay thai as well as jiujitsu. They were mized martial artists.
they were basic level mma artists look at royce he is a mma artist but comapred to a fighter even a couple of years later his skill levels were not upto scratch.

[sugarngold]

they were basic level mma artists look at royce he is a mma artist but comapred to a fighter even a couple of years later his skill levels were not upto scratch.

According to Relson Gracie - the reason Royce lost his later fights is because he refused to keep training with his brothers as he had in his early days. Royce insisted on training with his own black belts and purple belts. In many ways - the success of the Gracie family was the downfall of the Gracie family. Instead of working and training together as they once had - they all broke off and created their own academies/schools/brand names.

[rydersonthestorm]

According to Relson Gracie - the reason Royce lost his later fights is because he refused to keep training with his brothers as he had in his early days. Royce insisted on training with his own black belts and purple belts. In many ways - the success of the Gracie family was the downfall of the Gracie family. Instead of working and training together as they once had - they all broke off and created their own academies/schools/brand names.
he never had a full mma game he was good at ju jitsu, compare him to a guy like randy or wanderli and he is always goign to come up short. Look at guys like bas and frank shamrock they had much better allround games than royce and have been around for along time as well.

[sugarngold]

he never had a full mma game he was good at ju jitsu, compare him to a guy like randy or wanderli and he is always goign to come up short. Look at guys like bas and frank shamrock they had much better allround games than royce and have been around for along time as well.

You're right. Royce sucked at striking and never should have tried to throw a punch or kick - ever.

[rydersonthestorm]

You're right. Royce sucked at striking and never should have tried to throw a punch or kick - ever.
the thing is i think rickson had betetr strikign than royce but he never tested it out against a decent level striker with good allround mma skills. I just wish he had fought bas or frank shamrock so we could have seen how good he really was.

[sugarngold]

the thing is i think rickson had betetr strikign than royce but he never tested it out against a decent level striker with good allround mma skills. I just wish he had fought bas or frank shamrock so we could have seen how good he really was.

I wish he had fought those guys as well. And Sakuraba. I hate that there had to be a controversy with Sakuraba's win over Royler - because it effectively killed the match between those two.

[The Phenom]

Does Ken Shamrock have a shot.

[The Phenom]

Inside mma top ten
10 Ken Shamrock
9 Dan Henderson
8 Bj Penn
7 Chuck Liddell
6 Kazushi Sakuraba
5 Matt Hughes
4 Bas Rutten
3 Royce Gracie
2 Randy Couture
1 Fedor Emelianenko
honorable mentions Nogueira,Wanderlei,St Pierre,Anderson Silva,Ortiz,Frank,Severn,Rickson Gracie,Coleman,Faber.

[rekcutnevets]

Fedor
Penn
GSP
A Silva
Sakuraba
W Silva
Frank Shamrock
Royce Gracie
Renzo Gracie
Rickson Gracie

The Gracie family will tell you that Rickson is better than Renzo or Royce, and I believe them. I feel that Renzo is also better than Royce. I placed Royce where I did because of what he accomplished. Royce Gracie won 3 out of the first 4 UFCs. That is when it was tournament style, and he had to win 3-4 matches in one night.

[rydersonthestorm]

Inside mma top ten
10 Ken Shamrock
9 Dan Henderson
8 Bj Penn
7 Chuck Liddell
6 Kazushi Sakuraba
5 Matt Hughes
4 Bas Rutten
3 Royce Gracie
2 Randy Couture
1 Fedor Emelianenko
honorable mentions Nogueira,Wanderlei,St Pierre,Anderson Silva,Ortiz,Frank,Severn,Rickson Gracie,Coleman,Faber.
i can accept the lsit bar ken shamrock who shouldn't be on it.

[rydersonthestorm]

Fedor
Penn
GSP
A Silva
Sakuraba
W Silva
Frank Shamrock
Royce Gracie
Renzo Gracie
Rickson Gracie

The Gracie family will tell you that Rickson is better than Renzo or Royce, and I believe them. I feel that Renzo is also better than Royce. I placed Royce where I did because of what he accomplished. Royce Gracie won 3 out of the first 4 UFCs. That is when it was tournament style, and he had to win 3-4 matches in one night.
not sure how you can have gsp on the list when matt hughes is the best welter of all time for me gsp needs to beat penn again and also beat alves before he can hit an all time lsit.

[Beebs]

i can accept the lsit bar ken shamrock who shouldn't be on it.

If Rutten is on it, Shamrock has to be not only on it, but ahead of him.

[The Phenom]

i can accept the lsit bar ken shamrock who shouldn't be on it.
Why are you so down on Shamrock.

[El Puma]

If Rutten is on it, Shamrock has to be not only on it, but ahead of him.:think You feel Ken would have beat Bas in the octagon? Seems a bit more different in Pancrase.

[rydersonthestorm]

If Rutten is on it, Shamrock has to be not only on it, but ahead of him.
i hope your joking fucking ken shamrock

[rydersonthestorm]

Why are you so down on Shamrock.
he isn't that good and has never been that good might be why.

[Beebs]

i hope your joking fucking ken shamrock
Its pretty simple, compare their careers, Ken did every thing Bas did, did more, and beat Bas head to head twice..

[The Phenom]

he isn't that good and has never been that good might be why.
22 submissions in 26 wins looks damn impressive.

[Beebs]

:think You feel Ken would have beat Bas in the octagon? Seems a bit more different in Pancrase.

Would have been more in favor of Ken, no rope grabbing to escape a sub, ground and pound from top position.

[rydersonthestorm]

Its pretty simple, compare their careers, Ken did every thing Bas did, did more, and beat Bas head to head twice..
i wouldn't have bas in an all time list either but i feel he was a betetr allround ma fighter

[rydersonthestorm]

22 submissions in 26 wins looks damn impressive.
he left mma for the orime years of his fighting career and his level of comp before leaving was not great, he cam eback and has been taking a beating of everyone he has faced since.

[Beebs]

i wouldn't have bas in an all time list either but i feel he was a betetr allround ma fighter

Based on what? He lost, clearly, twice, and Ken did everything Bas did and more.

Bas was more "well rounded" but thats not what MMA is about, its about whats effective. Aoki is the antithesis of well rounded but he is a top lightweight.

[rydersonthestorm]

Based on what? He lost, clearly, twice, and Ken did everything Bas did and more.

Bas was more "well rounded" but thats not what MMA is about, its about whats effective. Aoki is the antithesis of well rounded but he is a top lightweight.
yes but bas results against ken have no bearing in some respects on if he is a betetr fighter as you point out styles make fights.

[AmericanSugar]

anderson silva period

[Polymath]

he isn't that good and has never been that good might be why.

FAIL!

[rydersonthestorm]

FAIL!
not really i have never rated him that highly he was obviously decent when he started but alot of the time faced smaller guys as he was juiced to fuck. He has never been a great striker and he never really came up against guys that were that well rounded as he was busy doing pro wrestling.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally posted by hotti_killer
not sure how you can have gsp on the list when matt hughes is the best welter of all time for me gsp needs to beat penn again and also beat alves before he can hit an all time lsit.
Pierre has not been around long enough to develop a 40+ win record, but his quality of wins are as good. Pierre is also the one that ended Hughes' reign as champion. Pierre has avenged his two losses with impressive victories in return matches. With wins over Parisyan, Trigg, Sherk, Penn, Hughes, Serra, Koscheck, and Fitch; Pierre has more than proved his all time worth at 170.

I really don't care if he fights Alves, because I want to see him against Anderson Silva. If he chooses to face Alves after a match with Silva, fine. Expect Pierre vs. Alves to look very similar to Pierre vs. Koscheck.

[rydersonthestorm]

Pierre has not been around long enough to develop a 40+ win record, but his quality of wins are as good. Pierre is also the one that ended Hughes' reign as champion. Pierre has avenged his two losses with impressive victories in return matches. With wins over Parisyan, Trigg, Sherk, Penn, Hughes, Serra, Koscheck, and Fitch; Pierre has more than proved his all time worth at 170.

I really don't care if he fights Alves, because I want to see him against Anderson Silva. If he chooses to face Alves after a match with Silva, fine. Expect Pierre vs. Alves to look very similar to Pierre vs. Koscheck.
not sure if i want to see gsp fight silva, i like gsp and wouldn't want him getting badly hurt.