Why are boxers considered "shot" when MMA fighters aren't?

[Action]

For instance Randy Couture is 45 years old with a 15-7 record and is fighting in the biggest MMA event of all time next weekend.
He is considered to be even up to win the fight.
Ken Shamrock has lost 5 in a row and when he was scheduled to fight Kimbo there was no outrage by MMA fans unlike boxing fans who love to attack their own.

Roy Jones was considered "shot" a couple of years ago and this fight with Calzaghe is still criticized.
Hassim Rahman is considered "shot" as he is now the substitute against Wladimir Klitchko.
Evander Holyfield has been "shot" for most of his career though he gave a good account of himself losing to Sultan Ibragimov.

Why are boxers "shot" and criticized by fans? Why are the legends' fights celebrated and honored by MMA fans?

[Boyd]

most MMA fans thought he kimbo shamrock fight was a joke. couture is like the BHOP of MMA.

[Addie]

For instance Randy Couture is 45 years old with a 15-7 record and is fighting in the biggest MMA event of all time next weekend.
He is considered to be even up to win the fight.
Ken Shamrock has lost 5 in a row and when he was scheduled to fight Kimbo there was no outrage by MMA fans unlike boxing fans who love to attack their own.

Roy Jones was considered "shot" a couple of years ago and this fight with Calzaghe is still criticized.
Hassim Rahman is considered "shot" as he is now the substitute against Wladimir Klitchko.
Evander Holyfield has been "shot" for most of his career though he gave a good account of himself losing to Sultan Ibragimov.

Why are boxers "shot" and criticized by fans? Why are the legends' fights celebrated and honored by MMA fans?

Boxing fans care about the well-being of fighters and their heroes. MMA fans just care about seeing knockouts.

[doug.ie]

two completely different sports...you can't compare...
a different type of skill required in boxing...

[rydersonthestorm]

Boxing fans care about the well-being of fighters and their heroes. MMA fans just care about seeing knockouts.
load of shit, some fighters get betetr with age and randy is doing betetr now than when he was 4-5 years ago.

[SouthpawSlayer]

hopkins


o yeah shamrock was shot

[T.C.W]

because there is fuck all fighters in MMA and in boxing there is over 20 000 pro fighters boxers and boxing has been around for years and it is not 20 something kid who won't to see somebody get there clock cleaned and doesn't give a flying fuck who or what match up make that happen.

[Addie]

load of shit, some fighters get betetr with age and randy is doing betetr now than when he was 4-5 years ago.

Why do MMA fans boo more than they cheer? Because there's more hugging and mounting than knockouts, that's why.

[rydersonthestorm]

Why do MMA fans boo more than they cheer? Because there's more hugging and mounting than knockouts, that's why.
also wrong you don't really seem to know much about mma

[doug.ie]

you're comparing football with rugby here guys..
boxing ain't the same...age affects differently...why so many 60 year old wrestlers? {regardless of it being a set-up thing}...

[Arriba]

Why do MMA fans boo more than they cheer? Because there's more hugging and mounting than knockouts, that's why.

Because they're fucking wasted by the start of the 2nd fight.

[Addie]

also wrong you don't really seem to know much about mma

It's true. The only reason people show up to MMA fights is to see somebody get brutally knocked out.

[rydersonthestorm]

It's true. The only reason people show up to MMA fights is to see somebody get brutally knocked out.
not really i have watched mma since ufc 1 and have trained with a few pro mma fighters i watch it for the skill not ko.s

[Addie]

not really i have watched mma since ufc 1 and have trained with a few pro mma fighters i watch it for the skill not ko.s

How do you feel to be part of the minority?

[Arriba]

not really i have watched mma since ufc 1 and have trained with a few pro mma fighters i watch it for the skill not ko.s

It's marketed towards KOs but most of the fans have an appreciation for the technical aspects to it.

And either way who cares? Boxing is marketed towards knock outs as well...and fans boo there too.

[Addie]

It's marketed towards KOs but most of the fans have an appreciation for the technical aspects to it.

And either way who cares? Boxing is marketed towards knock outs as well...and fans boo there too.

Not to the level of every seeing big MMA event. There's booing at every MMA event, and it's deafening and embarassing.

[Action]

two completely different sports...you can't compare...
a different type of skill required in boxing...

WTF does that have to do with it? A knockout does the same thing to the brain.

[rydersonthestorm]

How do you feel to be part of the minority?
i am not in the minority it tends to be dumd american fans who boo, if you ever watched pride there fasn but ufc and boxing fans to shame.

[Vantage_West]

in mma all you need is one strike or/and push on pike.
in boxing you have to have alot of skills,speed and power to keep fighting at advanced ages.
main thing is that shot fighters rarely get out of rounds 5/6 but in mma a 1st roudn ko is kinda common if not expected. so you never see a fading fighter. some mma guys get koed when they are still fresh.
stamina isnt an issue in mma and when it is it usually when both men are tired. also few mma guys try to go the distance or at least steal rounds which in boxing is common.

ray mercer might be shot but does it mean that in the early 90's he could of been just as bad in mma than the next man.

[SouthpawSlayer]

when mma goes to ground without either guy being bjj based the fight is boring and crap to watch

[DamonD]

Hasn't Shamrock's been considered shot to tiny pieces for years now?

[p.falk]

There's truth to what the OP is saying.
But it didn't always use to be like that.
An undefeated fighters loses now in boxing, and his next fight is refered to as a 'crossroads' fight.

But, look back when Julian Jackson lost to Mike McCallum. I don't remember many saying "well, Jackson is done for.... so, who's the next prospect?".

[Flyin Ryan]

There's truth to what the OP is saying.
But it didn't always use to be like that.
An undefeated fighters loses now in boxing, and his next fight is refered to as a 'crossroads' fight.

But, look back when Julian Jackson lost to Mike McCallum. I don't remember many saying "well, Jackson is done for.... so, who's the next prospect?".

I do. It's pretty much every other thread on this forum after a big fight.

"This guy is done. Stick a fork in him."

[Pro]

U can't call an MMA fighter shot because its more than one way to beat a man in that sport...dude could be old and still have power like in boxing...or still be crafty enough to make someone submit.

But i guess they could be consider shot when they don't have decent reflexes anymore...not like Roy Jones but like Meldrick Taylor or Riddick Bowe

[p.falk]

Flyin Ryan,
yeah, people say that now.
But not so much when Jackson, McCallum, Herol Graham, Benn, Eubank, Watson, Sumbu Kalambay, Norris and Nunn were fighting.

[Flyin Ryan]

Flyin Ryan,
yeah, people say that now.
But not so much when Jackson, McCallum, Herol Graham, Benn, Eubank, Watson, Sumbu Kalambay, Norris and Nunn were fighting.

Allright then, so why do boxing fans now do that?

Why don't boxing fans want to watch a fight between the #3 and #4 guys in a division after they each lost to #1 and #2?

[Vantage_West]

I do. It's pretty much every other thread on this forum after a big fight.

"This guy is done. Stick a fork in him."
i dunno it's usually when hype,age,lack of real talent is proven.

somone like tye fields is not getting a world title shot. but because of his record he was considered a contender....everyone knew he was going to get sparked by any mildly decent counterpuncher (monte barret not being a good puncher nor a good counterer).


i think the sticka fork in him comments are kinda considered.


but people do forget that most boxers out there arnt looking for titles they are looking for money and know that titles and belts will recieve a extra bit green on the paycheck.

some fight becuase you can get £200 a night on a journeyman card.

peter buckley isnt fight/sparring 300 times becuase he wants to win a title or be a contender. perosnally in person i felt his skills did indicate that he could of been good domestic level figther. but thats not his game. his game is being called in as a replacement on short notice get payed £3,000 and up for a night maybe 4 rounds thats 16 mins. he is there to lose.


does anyone think dumas is gonna be a champ no but becuase of that undefeated rec.


fuck it what am i talking about ramble ramble ramble ramble ramble ramble ramble:dead :dead :dead :dead :dead

[sambob]

Its kind of complicated, and takes a while to explain, but here goes.

Boxing is a more scientific, developed sport than MMA. What do I mean by this? First of all, about the betting odds for a fight. I think if you look at statistics, Las Vegas book makers are right a much higher of the percentage of time with their odds for boxing than with MMA. The outcome of a boxing match is easier to predict. This is because MMA is a less scientific sport, the fighters are still figuring out what works and what doesn't, and when it works, and when it doesn't. And because there is more potentially going on in an MMA fight, it will take even longer for it to develop to the level that boxing is at. So even though one fighter may be perceived to be much more skilled than another, that other fighter could still win... and has a greater chance to do so than in boxing.

Also, you mentioned ages.. but look at other physical differences between MMA fighters. Theres a lot more room for weight differences, In boxing, there are new weight classes every few pounds, but in MMA the differences are much bigger.

As MMA ages as a sport, fighters learn from their mistakes, and new generations of fighters get increasingly better at their craft... it will seem more like boxing. MMA fights will go to decisions more.. and also you'll see just the way MMA fighters LOOK be completely different. Boxers physiques are carefully sculpted to be the most efficient as possible for fighting. MMA fighters often have bodies like body builders, with way more muscle than is needed for fighting. Boxers have very defined muscles, but they are only as big as is natural for them to be fighting, and still be able to move, have stamina, etc etc. Many MMA fighters fight at a weight too heavy for them really to fight at as effectively as possible.

There really is no weight class for guys that should naturally fight at 130 lbs.. so they fight at 155, or maybe even higher. When MMA has proper weight classes... eventually fighters will realize understand the concept of a good fighting weight.. and they'll even look more like boxers.

Ken Shamrock and Randy Couture also despite being pretty old to be fighting... take considerably less blows to the head than boxers. They don't fight as often, and they take much fewer punches per fight than boxers do. Its not unusual, over 12 rounds for a boxer to get hit over a hundred times... or even hundreds of times if they lose. A few fights a year... over a few years.. this is WAY more punishment than MMA fighters take. Also, its not unusual for MMA fighters to start in the sport much later than boxers.

Boxing is such a developed, scientific sport... that usually to have the experience and skill it takes to succeed as a pro, you have to have a long amateur career, and then fight many pro fights before fighting word class fighters. An MMA fighter can have no background in real fighting, train for a few months.. and fight TV, in front of huge audiences right away. Shit, pro wrestlers fight in MMA. In boxing.... boxers go to pro wrestling for a pay day. Which makes more sense? :P

[konaman]

MMA is young and the skill level is a lot lower at the moment, allowing the quality old fighters to still do well. Plus grappling is better suited to aging fighters than striking is as striking is heavily reliant on speed an accuracy, things that fade quickly with age.

[MellowChimp]

silly thread cos im not sure where the idea MMA doesnt have shot fighters comes from. some MMA fighters are considered 'shot' as in cro cop and lidell. Shamrock is considered as beyond shot.

I think exactly like boxing its a combination of one fight too many, getting old and losing the top level of certain relied on attribute(s), shattered confidence or being totally exposed.

[Axe]

most MMA fans thought he kimbo shamrock fight was a joke. couture is like the BHOP of MMA.

:good

[rydersonthestorm]

Its kind of complicated, and takes a while to explain, but here goes.

Boxing is a more scientific, developed sport than MMA. What do I mean by this? First of all, about the betting odds for a fight. I think if you look at statistics, Las Vegas book makers are right a much higher of the percentage of time with their odds for boxing than with MMA. The outcome of a boxing match is easier to predict. This is because MMA is a less scientific sport, the fighters are still figuring out what works and what doesn't, and when it works, and when it doesn't. And because there is more potentially going on in an MMA fight, it will take even longer for it to develop to the level that boxing is at. So even though one fighter may be perceived to be much more skilled than another, that other fighter could still win... and has a greater chance to do so than in boxing.

Also, you mentioned ages.. but look at other physical differences between MMA fighters. Theres a lot more room for weight differences, In boxing, there are new weight classes every few pounds, but in MMA the differences are much bigger.

As MMA ages as a sport, fighters learn from their mistakes, and new generations of fighters get increasingly better at their craft... it will seem more like boxing. MMA fights will go to decisions more.. and also you'll see just the way MMA fighters LOOK be completely different. Boxers physiques are carefully sculpted to be the most efficient as possible for fighting. MMA fighters often have bodies like body builders, with way more muscle than is needed for fighting. Boxers have very defined muscles, but they are only as big as is natural for them to be fighting, and still be able to move, have stamina, etc etc. Many MMA fighters fight at a weight too heavy for them really to fight at as effectively as possible.

There really is no weight class for guys that should naturally fight at 130 lbs.. so they fight at 155, or maybe even higher. When MMA has proper weight classes... eventually fighters will realize understand the concept of a good fighting weight.. and they'll even look more like boxers.

Ken Shamrock and Randy Couture also despite being pretty old to be fighting... take considerably less blows to the head than boxers. They don't fight as often, and they take much fewer punches per fight than boxers do. Its not unusual, over 12 rounds for a boxer to get hit over a hundred times... or even hundreds of times if they lose. A few fights a year... over a few years.. this is WAY more punishment than MMA fighters take. Also, its not unusual for MMA fighters to start in the sport much later than boxers.

Boxing is such a developed, scientific sport... that usually to have the experience and skill it takes to succeed as a pro, you have to have a long amateur career, and then fight many pro fights before fighting word class fighters. An MMA fighter can have no background in real fighting, train for a few months.. and fight TV, in front of huge audiences right away. Shit, pro wrestlers fight in MMA. In boxing.... boxers go to pro wrestling for a pay day. Which makes more sense? :P
thats wrong for a start, in ufc they don't have lower than 155 they do have lower weightclasses though in alot of other orgs/

[sambob]

thats wrong for a start, in ufc they don't have lower than 155 they do have lower weightclasses though in alot of other orgs/

The UFC is the biggest MMA promotion. Furthermore, the other ones have so few fighters in those classes, that theres no money in it. And almost none of those fights are televised.

[rydersonthestorm]

The UFC is the biggest MMA promotion. Furthermore, the other ones have so few fighters in those classes, that theres no money in it. And almost none of those fights are televised.
again wrong the featherweight divion has akot of fights shown urijah faber is a pretty big name in mma.

[gottagivafight]

The only thing I'll give the MMA guyz is that they fight far more often. That's it. Yu gotta think, UF and CL figtht like what, 10-12 times a year or so? That's a lotta scrappin' peeps.

[sitiyzal]

The fact that mma fans claim mma's more exciting than boxing yet start booing when mma fights go to the ground perfectly illustrates just how fucking dumb they are.

[adub215]

mma is pretty fucking stupid if you ask me

i mean who wants to see some juiced up bisexuals roll around on the floor

[Action]

mma is pretty fucking stupid if you ask me

i mean who wants to see some juiced up bisexuals roll around on the floor

You are an idiot

[2ironmt]

For instance Randy Couture is 45 years old with a 15-7 record and is fighting in the biggest MMA event of all time next weekend.
He is considered to be even up to win the fight.
Ken Shamrock has lost 5 in a row and when he was scheduled to fight Kimbo there was no outrage by MMA fans unlike boxing fans who love to attack their own.

Roy Jones was considered "shot" a couple of years ago and this fight with Calzaghe is still criticized.
Hassim Rahman is considered "shot" as he is now the substitute against Wladimir Klitchko.
Evander Holyfield has been "shot" for most of his career though he gave a good account of himself losing to Sultan Ibragimov.

Why are boxers "shot" and criticized by fans? Why are the legends' fights celebrated and honored by MMA fans? shamrock aside, mma fighters can likely last longer b/c they take different types of beatrings in losses. boxers take shots to the head all fight (even winners some times), but that ain't the case w/ mma. constant jarring of the skull (plus concussions, bruises, etc) takes it's toll and that's why most boxers are shot at an earlier age.

[house1234]

The only thing I'll give the MMA guyz is that they fight far more often. That's it. Yu gotta think, UF and CL figtht like what, 10-12 times a year or so? That's a lotta scrappin' peeps.


MMA guys do not fight more often. Randy Couture has a record of 15-7.
Boxers record are much bigger. George st pierre has two fights this year.

[Beebs]

The fact that mma fans claim mma's more exciting than boxing yet start booing when mma fights go to the ground perfectly illustrates just how fucking dumb they are.

Fans don't do this, in fact takedowns are usually cheered, the most booing is done when there is stalling/running standing.

[Beebs]

It's true. The only reason people show up to MMA fights is to see somebody get brutally knocked out.

You are such an idiot.

[Beebs]

so you never see a fading fighter.

.
stamina isnt an issue in mma and when it is it usually when both men are tired

You might be an even bigger idiot.

[québecwarrior]

there is not a fan of MMA that I know who was thinking that Shamrock was not shot

[Beebs]

and also you'll see just the way MMA fighters LOOK be completely different. Boxers physiques are carefully sculpted to be the most efficient as possible for fighting.

No, boxers are scultped to be the most efficient for boxing, as in standing only, no grappling, no groundwork, no elbows, no clinchwork, no throws, no takedowns, and no kicks. MMA fighters bodies are meant for fighting, as in fighting, not just boxing.

There is a reason wreslters look differen than boxers, and the MMA fighter will look much more like the wrestler.

[Beebs]

:heyThe UFC is the biggest MMA promotion. Furthermore, the other ones have so few fighters in those classes, that theres no money in it. And almost none of those fights are televised.

Basic Cable, VS network, Tonight. Tons of sub 155 talent will be fighting on national television.

[cdnboxing]

Couture is far from shot. Hes beaten 2 very solid heavyweights in his last 2 fights at heavyweight. And he has a great resume.

Couture is the Bhop of MMA.

And I dont even know why people are criticizing the RJJ/Calzaghe fight. Its a dangerous fight for Joe. RJJ likes people who are aggressors, and will look to counter Cal all night. Its a good style matchup.

In fact, some experts are picking RJJ to defeat Calzaghe.

It is kind of mind boggling how Couture/lesnar gets a free pass but fights like Pacman/DLH, RJJ/Cal get criticized. Lesnar has a 1-1 record in the UFC and is getting a title shot.

[ufoalf]

It is kind of mind boggling how Couture/lesnar gets a free pass but fights like Pacman/DLH, RJJ/Cal get criticized. Lesnar has a 1-1 record in the UFC and is getting a title shot.
Free pass??? This is an embarassing fight is what it is. Pure business to put asses into seats. There are at least 5 other HW that are more deserving that Lesnar who've been waiting for their shot at the title.

I honostly hope that Couture completely embarasses Lesnar so we won't have these freakshow title shots anymore. Pride did that crap when they were dying out. Now UFC is doing it, only difference is, they're prospering.

[cdnboxing]

No, boxers are scultped to be the most efficient for boxing, as in standing only, no grappling, no groundwork, no elbows, no clinchwork, no throws, no takedowns, and no kicks. MMA fighters bodies are meant for fighting, as in fighting, not just boxing.

There is a reason wreslters look differen than boxers, and the MMA fighter will look much more like the wrestler.

ugh, not really.

[cdnboxing]

Free pass??? This is an embarassing fight is what it is. Pure business to put asses into seats. There are at least 5 other HW that are more deserving that Lesnar who've been waiting for their shot at the title.

I honostly hope that Couture completely embarasses Lesnar so we won't have these freakshow title shots anymore. Pride did that crap when they were dying out. Now UFC is doing it, only difference is, they're prospering.

I can name 10-15 other HW's that are more deserving.

I know its an embarassing fight but most people are incredibly excited for this fight and just seem to look past the fact that Lesnar has 2-1 record in MMA. Meanwhile, in boxing everybody is talking about how ridiculous the Pacman/DLH fight is but seem to forget the fact that Pacman is arguably the best P4P fighter in the sport and is moving up 12lbs to fight DLH. I wish DLH would have faught a Cotto or Margarito but in my opinion its nowhere near as bad as the Lesnar/Couture fight and the backlash for that fight is far less than the fight with DLH/PAC.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Because most boxing fans aren't good fans. Fickle boxing fans are exactly the reason why we don't see more mega fights, more often. Fighters are so afraid to lose nowadays, because the fickle boxing fans will write them off as finished, washed up, ect.... Can't lay it on the line and go for a knockout, because if they would happen to get caught and dropped in the process they will be labeled as "glass jawed" by their great fans.

Most boxing fans suck at being fans.

[Beebs]

ugh, not really.

Yes, really.

Grappling rewards strength more than boxing does, and so does MMA.

[jimmie]

Because most boxing fans aren't good fans. Fickle boxing fans are exactly the reason why we don't see more mega fights, more often. Fighters are so afraid to lose nowadays, because the fickle boxing fans will write them off as finished, washed up, ect.... Can't lay it on the line and go for a knockout, because if they would happen to get caught and dropped in the process they will be labeled as "glass jawed" by their great fans.

Most boxing fans suck at being fans.

Yeah man you lose in boxing you might as well retire because your are know garbage but shit some or most fans will just say you where garbage all along. I cant think of any time in boxing where you seen anything like Liddell vs Wanderlei Silva when these 2 superstars which both each coming off violent losses in the 2 previous bouts but people kinda forgot about the past and focused on that fight. Look at Jens man he has lost 4 out of 5 now but you dont see everyone coming out of the woodworks screaming hes a fraud,shot,glass jawed,a bum,overatted etc.

[J_Roth]

IMHO it has to do with the fact that boxing focuses on one aspect of fighting. If you are unable to compete because of age, wear and tear etc it will be obvious. In MMA where one aspect might lack you can make up for it in another area.

[Tuffnutz]

MMA fighters have so much to fall back on and there are so many ways to win.

Boxers only have their hands.

If a boxer starts to lose his reflexes for instance, he can't fall back on other martial arts because in boxing there is only one, boxing.

When you can only use one martial art you have to be perfect at it and you are more likely to get lucky when there are multiple martial arts envolved too.

A shot fighter in MMA is more likely to win than a shot fighter in boxing.