Marquez-Vasquez II, Round 5 - Knockdown or slip? [Archive]

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 09:49 AM

Goose

08-05-2007, 09:54 AM

Slip, Israel got up and went right after Rafa as if nothing happened, he simply slipped.

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 09:56 AM

Slip, Israel got up and went right after Rafa as if nothing happened, he simply slipped.

I'm not saying the punch hurt Vasquez. What I'm saying is he went down as a result of a punch.

achillesthegreat

08-05-2007, 10:00 AM

Definitely a knockdown.

sues2nd

08-05-2007, 10:12 AM

Definitely a knockdown.

Were you guys even watching the same fight....Raph missed the punch...Izzy's feet obviously slipped (feet tangled was the wrong call by the announcer). When ya hit the canvas from no punch and a slip of the feet..............................its called a slip.

Seriously, what fight were you watching?

:huh

jyuza

08-05-2007, 10:14 AM

Raf missed the punch and Vasquez was off balanced after trying to hit Marquez.

So definitely a slip.
But Vasquez did scored a KD in the 6.

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 10:21 AM

Were you guys even watching the same fight....Raph missed the punch...Izzy's feet obviously slipped (feet tangled was the wrong call by the announcer). When ya hit the canvas from no punch and a slip of the feet..............................its called a slip.

Seriously, what fight were you watching?

:huh

Uhhh...what fight were you watching? The punch that "missed" actually landed to Vasquez's shoulder, but that's not the punch that did the damage. It was a left hook during an exchange that knocked Vasquez off balance. That's what I was watching.

IntentionalButt

08-05-2007, 10:23 AM

I'm not saying the punch hurt Vasquez. What I'm saying is he went down as a result of a punch.
Not so. The replay clearly showed it to be a slip. Vazquez threw wild and landed a couple of bombs, whatever Marquez did get through in that exchange wasn't anywhere near as hard as the shots he took. Vazquez stunned him, and threw himself off balance with his own momentum. :good

cannabis

08-05-2007, 10:25 AM

it was a slip; watch his left foot. it went out from underneath him. punches had nothing to do with it

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 10:26 AM

Not so. The replay clearly showed it to be a slip. Vazquez threw wild and landed a couple of bombs, whatever Marquez did get through in that exchange wasn't anywhere near as hard as the shots he took. Vazquez stunned him, and threw himself off balance with his own momentum. :good

If that was true, he would have fell forward and not backwards.

emanuel_augustus

08-05-2007, 10:28 AM

Uhhh...what fight were you watching? The punch that "missed" actually landed to Vasquez's shoulder, but that's not the punch that did the damage. It was a left hook during an exchange that knocked Vasquez off balance. That's what I was watching.

Exactly. There was a short clipping left hook from Marquez that I thought clearly caused the knockdown. Bernstein missed it, but he was looking for Marquez's right hand, not the left. Watch the replay, you'll see the left hand land. That was no slip.

jyuza

08-05-2007, 10:29 AM

If that was true, he would have fell forward and not backwards.

His legs made a weird move that provok the slip.

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 10:42 AM

His legs made a weird move that provok the slip.

Resulting from a short left hook. His balance was fine up until the point the punch landed.

Toopretty

08-05-2007, 10:52 AM

Toopretty

08-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Marquez even slipped one time Vasquez hit him with a right hand and Marquez was reeling back and slipped and fell in to the ropes. I seen about 15 slips in the ring that night between the two fights.

nervousxtian

08-05-2007, 11:06 AM

SLIP.

It's like you guys are watching some different alternate reality of a fight... there was no punch landed during or right before that slip.

younghov2k4

08-05-2007, 11:16 AM

from the replay that i saw in between rounds, it looked like a slip. the ref made the right call at that point.

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 11:18 AM

people were slipping all night on the decal in the ring. Vasquez was punching and the replay shows the punch miss everything. He fell right down you see his feet slip up. This is a retarded conspiracy theory. They need to stop that dumb ass decal in the ring shit. I know you got to advertise but make the shit with the pattern of the ring mat instead that cheap ass iron on shit..lol

Conspiracy theory? :lol: Whatever. The only thing retarded is you if you can't see Marquez clearly landing a left hook to the chin. It's common sense. Vasquez loads up on a big left hook and get caught in between causing him to fall off balance. Slip my ass.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Sweet Jones

08-05-2007, 11:25 AM

younghov2k4

08-05-2007, 11:26 AM

i still say that its a slip but it is close.

that left does land but you can also see Vasquez's foot did slip afterwards. it could fall under a knockdown under the rule specifications, whatever they are.

jyuza

08-05-2007, 11:31 AM

Resulting from a short left hook. His balance was fine up until the point the punch landed.

Please... that left hook did land but it didn't seemed to be powerful enough to put Vasquez on his ass.
A round ago, Vasquez took a full body weight straight right hand with a straight left hand and he came back like it was nothing.

That left hook didn't put Vasquez on the canvas. It was a slip.

jyuza

08-05-2007, 11:33 AM

Knockdown. And props to the poster above for posting the clip. Not to say the punch hurt him, but Marquez caught him just leaning in and it was just enough to start that loose footwork.

Al Bernstein seemed off last night. IMO, he got both the 'slip' and the stoppage calls wrong.

I think the stoppage was early. Marquez was not done, the ref could have at least give him 10 sec to see if he was really finished.

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 11:38 AM

Please... that left hook did land but it didn't seemed to be powerful enough to put Vasquez on his ass.
A round ago, Vasquez took a full body weight straight right hand with a straight left hand and he came back like it was nothing.

That left hook didn't put Vasquez on the canvas. It was a slip.

No shit, it had nothing to do with power. And like I said, Vasquez wasn't hurt. It had to do with the fact that Vasquez's momentum was coming forward, and he got timed perfectly. You keep saying it's a slip, but what caused the slip? Not the logos on the canvas. As the GIF shows, his balance was fine up until the point the punch landed. Coincidence?

Doc BNB

08-05-2007, 11:40 AM

Honestly, it's a true judgement call, because I saw that punch on the replay, and that could certainly be rulled a knockdown becuase it started the whole thing, but the fact that Vasquez looked like he was still in a stance that would allow him to stay up, AND his foot on the EliteXC sign looked like it slid out of nowhere, I certainly don't think it's a crime to call it a slip.

Doc BNB

08-05-2007, 11:41 AM

No shit, it had nothing to do with power. And like I said, Vasquez wasn't hurt. It had to do with the fact that Vasquez's momentum was coming forward, and he got timed perfectly. You keep saying it's a slip, but what caused the slip? Not the logos on the canvas. As the GIF shows, his balance was fine up until the point the punch landed. Coincidence?

He has two feet, ya know. One foot is definitely on the logo, and while the punch certainly took away his front foot, the canvas looked like it helped with the back one.

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 11:51 AM

He has two feet, ya know. One foot is definitely on the logo, and while the punch certainly took away his front foot, the canvas looked like it helped with the back one.

You can't really tell from that angle, but the foot on the logo did not slide. He lunged forward trying to load up on the hook.

nervousxtian

08-05-2007, 11:53 AM

Umm.. he slipped when that left hook hit his arm.

IntentionalButt

08-05-2007, 12:01 PM

If that was true, he would have fell forward and not backwards.
Not necessarily. Watch the replay, his front foot kicked out from under him - up and straight ahead from his own forward force that he generated landing those hard shots on Marquez. If your legs are in front of you, basic physics dictate that you will fall backwards or to the side. If anything, he probably would have scored an earlier KD in that exchange had he been more set. He landed a few clean shots and this made him go wild and abandon concentration on his footing. There's really not much mystery here.

achillesthegreat

08-05-2007, 12:09 PM

achillesthegreat

08-05-2007, 12:10 PM

The left hook lands while IV is lunging. He was made to pay for being out of position and off balance. A legit kd.

IntentionalButt

08-05-2007, 12:13 PM

He gets caught with a left hand. What is wrong with you?

Buddy, there is absolutely no way in hell that was a knockdown punch, even with Izzy having already started losing his balance.

emanuel_augustus

08-05-2007, 01:30 PM

Buddy, there is absolutely no way in hell that was a knockdown punch, even with Izzy having already started losing his balance.\

Seriously, what are you watching?? You can see Vasquez's head jerk back from the punch. The left was short and he didn't see it, it clearly was a knockdown, Vasquez lost his equilibrium. It's not that hard to see.

PATSYS

08-05-2007, 01:39 PM

Clear as day - it was a slip. Marquez didn't land a punch.

Drew101

08-05-2007, 01:50 PM

Hmm. Marquez lands the hook, but then Vasquez immediately fires back with a jab, and his leg slips forward; a reaction that usually isn't caused by a punch (usually the knees buckle- and that didn't happen in this case.) Since IV's reaction doesn't seem to be a direct result of a punch, I'd be inclined to say that calling it a slip isn't that bad of a call.

Casa

08-05-2007, 02:14 PM

I still think it's a slip since the punch didn't cause the knockdown. You can see he plants his left foot then he slips dodging Marquez's right.

Thor

08-05-2007, 02:30 PM

It's a moot point now, onward to Episode III.

IntentionalButt

08-05-2007, 06:36 PM

\

Seriously, what are you watching?? You can see Vasquez's head jerk back from the punch. The left was short and he didn't see it, it clearly was a knockdown, Vasquez lost his equilibrium. It's not that hard to see.
Just rewatched the fight, replayed the slow-motion angles several times. The punch was a contributing factor but not the driving force of his fall. His head didn't jerk back, his face got pushed to one side momentarily same as any hook that lands clean and an instant later he was facing straight forward and throwing punches without setting his already splayed feet, which then kicked out from under him. Way too delayed a reaction to blame on the punch alone and there was too much other movement, too many other variables to say that the slip would not have occured sans the punch. We'll never know. Only Izzy knows how much force that punch had, he didn't appear to react like he thuoght he was getting away with anything and Rafael didn't seem miffed at the call.

Boom_Boom

08-05-2007, 06:39 PM

I wish they would stop putting those fucking shiny logos on the mat

it interferred alot with the cabrello fight too

IntentionalButt

08-05-2007, 06:40 PM

I wish they would stop putting those fucking shiny logos on the mat

it interferred alot with the cabrello fight too

The worst of it is that they were advertising their shitty newjack MMA bullshit in a sweet science ring. :twisted: :lol:

errsta

08-05-2007, 09:08 PM

Slip.

I swore it was a knockdown at first but the birdseye view confirmed that Marquez's right did not land.

sues2nd

08-05-2007, 09:28 PM

Conspiracy theory? :lol: Whatever. The only thing retarded is you if you can't see Marquez clearly landing a left hook to the chin. It's common sense. Vasquez loads up on a big left hook and get caught in between causing him to fall off balance. Slip my ass.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Dude, thats clearly a slip....:lol:

After that left hook to the shoulder, they continued fighting....it clearly wasnt caused by the left....your dilusional...

....and plus, if its a foot slip, even if there is a punch (that didnt score btw) its still considered a slip by the rules....

Archie_Moore

08-05-2007, 09:30 PM

obviously a slip

Brickhaus

08-05-2007, 09:48 PM

He slipped on the logo, just like five other fighters did during the card. The punch where he fell down didn't even touch him.

Scar

08-05-2007, 09:49 PM

CLEARLY a knockdown, I don't understand how anyone would consider that a slip. Marquez connected right on the chin and he went down, nothing embarrassing there.

sues2nd

08-05-2007, 09:51 PM

CLEARLY a knockdown, I don't understand how anyone would consider that a slip. Marquez connected right on the chin and he went down, nothing embarrassing there.

Your joking right scar???

Antwuan Maxx

08-05-2007, 10:06 PM

The incompetence in this thread is shocking. I even paused the GIF on the frame where the punch landed that knocked Vasquez off balance. Yet people are still saying a punch didn't land. :nut

Scar

08-05-2007, 10:09 PM

Your joking right scar???

Not at all mate, check it out, Marquez lands right on Vasquez' chin and down he goes. That was more of a flash knockdown than anything serious, Vasquez got back up normal and showed no signs of being hurt at all which means that it was a flash knockdown. A real knockdown is what happened to Diaz against Morales in the first round, Diaz is nailed, down he goes and gets back up wobbly. Both are knockdowns though but Vasquez just didn't see the punch coming, he going forward and boom, then gets back up normal.

Scar

08-05-2007, 10:11 PM

The incompetence in this thread is shocking. I even paused the GIF on the frame where the punch landed that knocked Vasquez off balance. Yet people are still saying a punch didn't land. :nut

It clearly landed and right on the chin, I noticed it even during the fight without the need of any replays to convince me. It's not like "Ohh, it should've been a knockout!" or "Vasquez was out on his feat!!!!". Just a flash knockdown, nothing too serious in favor of Marquez.

freddy-wak

08-05-2007, 10:11 PM

i already rewinded that shit about 3485738043095840 times and it was definately a knockdown....israel was about to come in, was a bit of balance but that left hook definately caused the knockdown.......

Brickhaus

08-05-2007, 10:55 PM

The incompetence in this thread is shocking. I even paused the GIF on the frame where the punch landed that knocked Vasquez off balance. Yet people are still saying a punch didn't land. :nut

Yes, THAT punch landed. The second one, a second later (which was the one that would have sent him in the direction he fell) did NOT land. Also, if you watch his foot, you can clearly see it slip. As stated elsewhere, there were problems with the boxers slipping on that spot all night. The ref knew that, and that's probably part of the reason he was able to call it a slip.

In any case, he won by KO a round later, so what does it really matter?

errsta

08-05-2007, 11:13 PM

Slip.

I swore it was a knockdown at first but the birdseye view confirmed that Marquez's right did not land.

Change of mind: It WAS a knockdown.

At first I was just examining the right cross that followed the left hook (and missed), but the left hook is what caused the knockdown. The knockdown/slip was a result of that punch.

jonesjrp4p1

08-05-2007, 11:29 PM

if i was the ref i would of called it a knockdown bc he got hit with the left hand as he was moving backwards........yes he was offbalance and wasnt hurt but he got hit

sues2nd

08-05-2007, 11:34 PM

Yes, THAT punch landed. The second one, a second later (which was the one that would have sent him in the direction he fell) did NOT land. Also, if you watch his foot, you can clearly see it slip. As stated elsewhere, there were problems with the boxers slipping on that spot all night. The ref knew that, and that's probably part of the reason he was able to call it a slip.

In any case, he won by KO a round later, so what does it really matter?

:happy

smokey

08-05-2007, 11:59 PM

He slipped on that lettering it looks like to me. I hate all that advertizing crap on the canvas.

digiram

08-06-2007, 01:36 AM

Thanks for overhead. Clearly appeared to be a minor flash KD.

Farmboxer

08-06-2007, 04:09 AM

That fight was stopped too soon. Was the ref paid off? Who knows, but it would not surprise me. It's a shame it was not allowed to go on.

psychopath

08-06-2007, 07:07 AM

In the 5th round Vasquez went down but it was ruled a slip. Al Bernstein said it was due to their feet being tied up and Marquez missed with the right hand anyway. Not true. The over head replay clearly showed an exchange of left hooks, with Marquez's knocking Vasquez off balance. Their feet never got tied up, and Marquez landed partially to Vasquez's shoulder with a right hand as Vasquez was falling to the canvas. Sure Vasquez wasn't hurt, and he would have won the fight anyway, but that should have still been ruled a knockdown.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Yes Vasquez was hit with the left hook alright but it was clear that it was not the reason why he fell . . . you watch your own clip. :D

Vasquez tried to avoid the incoming right when his lead foot lost it's footing. Watch Marquez right punch and watch Vasquez left foot.

That's a good call buddy. Vasquez simply lost his balance.

achillesthegreat

08-06-2007, 08:48 AM

Buddy, there is absolutely no way in hell that was a knockdown punch, even with Izzy having already started losing his balance.
You can see his head move. You aren't one of these fools who believe every knockdown is power orientated. He was lunging in off balance and out of position. He was made to pay.

IntentionalButt

08-06-2007, 09:30 AM

You can see his head move. You aren't one of these fools who believe every knockdown is power orientated. He was lunging in off balance and out of position. He was made to pay.

I agree that it was a factor, i just can't concede that if you subtracted the punch the other variables by themselves wouldn't have been enough to cause him to go down. I think it was a nail in the coffin, as opposed to a death knell. Of course, as subjective as rulings in this sport can be, I could understand a ref erring on the side of assuming the punch caused it directly and saying that still counts as knockdown just because there was contact. :think

achillesthegreat

08-06-2007, 03:49 PM

I agree that it was a factor, i just can't concede that if you subtracted the punch the other variables by themselves wouldn't have been enough to cause him to go down. I think it was a nail in the coffin, as opposed to a death knell. Of course, as subjective as rulings in this sport can be, I could understand a ref erring on the side of assuming the punch caused it directly and saying that still counts as knockdown just because there was contact. :think
Well it was. He was lunging in and was not braced for a shot coming his way. He was off balance and out of position. The video clearly shows this. Had Marquez not punched him he would not have totally lost his balance.

I don't know what the ref didn't see. Marquez punched him and Vasquez went down.

The worst is Bernstein who made something up that didn't exist and he saw what happened ringside and replayed two or three times.

Antwuan Maxx

08-06-2007, 07:05 PM

He was caught with a lefthook, but the reason for him to slip was the letter 'X' of the EliteXC Logo. He was coming foward and make a little jump while hit by the lefthook. He took the punch well. As you said dont pay atention on Rafa's righthook that was missed, focus on the lefthook before that; well dont pay atention to his left leg that missed the canvas, focus on his right leg over the 'X' letter and youll see the truth.:deal

No. From that angle it may look like his right foot is slipping. But what you're really seeing is Vasquez lunging forward with a leaping hook. Most hookers leap slightly to load up on shots from time to time, like Ricky Hatton for example.

psychopath

08-06-2007, 07:12 PM

No. From that angle it may look like his right foot is slipping. But what you're really seeing is Vasquez lunging forward with a leaping hook. Most hookers leap slightly to load up on shots from time to time, like Ricky Hatton for example.

Exactly, Vasquez was lunging forward to load up . . . but then he saw that right coming so he tried to back out in the last moment, where his left foot is not touching the canvas . . . reason why he lost his balance.

No arguement on the Marquez left hook landing . . . it clearly hit the mark solidly but that's not the reason why he fell backwards..

Ramshall1

08-06-2007, 07:16 PM

Were you guys even watching the same fight....Raph missed the punch...Izzy's feet obviously slipped (feet tangled was the wrong call by the announcer). When ya hit the canvas from no punch and a slip of the feet..............................its called a slip.

Seriously, what fight were you watching?

:huh

well said. . . real time, I could see the confusion . .. but very clear on the replay.

BoxingGuru

08-06-2007, 07:58 PM

How is this even a question, if you can't see the slip your fucking blind or biased. PERIOD.

Ramshall1

08-06-2007, 08:03 PM

I dont understand what the huge deal is. . . the only real contraversy IMO is wether the ref stopped it too early. . .IMO is was a bit early but Vasquez looked clearly stronger that night and most likely would have stopped Rafa anyway.

I picked Rafa to win and was rooting for him but Izzy earned mad respect from any true fight fan. . . Andre Dirrell, Spinks, FMJ, Malagnagi, Raheem should all be forced to watch that fight and bow down.

Antwuan Maxx

08-06-2007, 08:34 PM

How is this even a question, if you can't see the slip your fucking blind or biased. PERIOD.

If you can't see Vasquez's balance was fine up until the point Marquez landed the left hook you're either being misled by Al Bernstein's commentary or flat out fucking retarded.