Fighters you dislike

[cross_trainer]

Which historical fighters do actively dislike, and why?

[Icemmann]

Holyfield. The Headbutting bastard.

Leonard. For beating Hagler

Jones Jr. For fighting tomato cans for the better part of a decade.

[Russell]

Jones Jr and Toney's attitudes annoy me, though I recognize both are great.

Ruiz for putting one more nail in the HW division.

Shannon Briggs annoys me on and off.

[Marnoff]

Antonio Tarver. Stupid things he says. He believes he was poisoned before the Hopkins fight? He's a clown.

[torchkit]

cassius clay/ali. Loud mouth, racist, holding and hitting, rabbit punching piece of garbage.

[Russell]

Hah, well, Foreman thinks he was poisoned too...

Seems to be a running trend. ;)

[Amsterdam]

Harry Greb.:lol:

[Stewbear]

Only really the scum of boxing though I used to strongly dislike Toney and Bowe, though its kinda hard to hate on a guy that sounds as punch drunk as these two do.

[janitor]

Harry Greb.:lol:

How on earth can you dislike Greb?

He beat up virtualy everybody worth knowing from midlewweight to heavyweight.

If you dont like Greb then you probably secretly prefer bowls to boxing in reality.

[Icemmann]

Hopkins. For being a former jailhouse bird, he sure fights like a little bitch. Hit, hold and headbutt. No honor or sweet science involved in that.


Except for the jailhouse bit you discribed Evander Headbuttingfield to a tee.

[Sonny Carson]

Sugar Ray Leonard

[DamonD]

I'm afraid it's Riddick Bowe.

It's not just the whole Lewis/WBC thing, it's his whole career and the way in which he threw away such talents and opportunities. He fought like hell to reach the pinnacle of HW boxing then pissed it all away with his laziness and arrogance. It used to infuritate me, now I just feel kinda sad too.

Also John Ruiz. I can appreciate how he made a little go a long way, but he and Stoney really dragged the reputation of the WBA belt and divison through the mud.

[Lex]

Wow. Tough crowd. Most of the boxers dissed here, I respect because they're tough enough to do what's necessary to win.

Toney's a clown. Anyone who knows him well says he's pretty much a prickly teddy bear more than a porcupine.

Hopkins is one of the smartest men in boxing, knowing how to hold onto a title and his money in a sport filled with vultures and incompetents.

Sure, Holyfield head butts. So did Joe Frazier. But Frazier's opponents were well schooled enough to defend against it, rather than whine about it.

The obvious bad guy is Mike Tyson, who should never be heard from or seen again. Unless he can demonstrate at least a 10 year streak of continuous positive behavior, I don't ever wanna see or hear from him again. Go find an appropriate monastery, Mike. You already have the haircut.

Bottom of the barrel, James "The Harlem Hammer" Butler for not only biting a friend's helping hand, but killing him too - sadly, with a hammer. A classic example of why early warning signs should be taken very seriously.

Zab Judah for a career long demonstration of those very same warning signs - total disrespect for the sport and anyone involved in it, physically lashing out at anyone, anytime because he's allow to get away with it. He should already have been banned for life. One more infraction should be more than enough.

[Bad_Intentions]

historical fighters? none.

modern fighters (now) - antonio tarver.

[Muchmoore]

Both Klitschkos.

[Bad_Intentions]

Both Klitschkos.:rofl

[mightyd40]

duran-because of his personality and the fact that i dont think he was as great as most others do

douglas-for messing up my favorite fighters career haha

pazienza-for the same reason i hate vic darchiniyan

battling nelson-for being dirty and because i am a joe gans fan

[Icemmann]

Top ranked contenders and title holders aren't tomato cans, neither are guys like Tarver, Hopkins, McCallum, Toney, Ruiz at HW, etc.

Toney in 94, Ruiz in 2003.


For the better part of a decade. A hell of a lot of fights he could have made in that span. But chose not to.

[Thread Stealer]

Jones Jr. For fighting tomato cans for the better part of a decade.

Most, if not all, of those tomato cans were top 10 contenders by The Ring's ratings (as part of the HBO contract).

Roy seems to generally be of "love him or hate him" mold, but I was generally indifferent about him.

Fighters I dislike:

Vitali Klitschko: I can't stand his ugly style of fighting. He makes Carlos Monzon look like graceful, aesthically pleasing fighter. His annoying fanatics make it worse by criminally overrating him.

Evander Holyfield: I respect his work ethic and competitive spirit. I don't like his excessive excuse-making, hyprocrisy, claiming that he never used steroids and then saying "but I heard Mike Tyson used them".

Antonio Tarver: whining fighter who blew his opportunity against Roy Jones but was able to cry his way to a rematch, after one of the most uncontroversial "controversial" decisions ever. I now dislike him less though, because he was a key part of my 2nd favorite Rocky flick.

Marvin Hagler: interestingly, I am usually defending him from the newbies and casual fans who act like he was a brawler when in actuality he was a very skilled, versatile, boxer-puncher. It doesn't mean I like him though, I'm just objective and I dislike ignorance more than I do Hagler. His bitterness and whining is annoying, especially for such a "bad man and tough guy" who changed his name legally to feel more loved.

James Butler, Luis Resto, Tony Ayala Jr., and Panama Lewis should all be shot.

[Thread Stealer]

Toney in 94, Ruiz in 2003.


For the better part of a decade. A hell of a lot of fights he could have made in that span. But chose not to.

Most of the fights that failed to materialize were at 168. Besides Michalczeswki (I blame both of them and it takes from both of their standings that they never fought), Roy pretty much cleaned out the contenders and title holders @ 175.

[salsanchezfan]

I'm a hateful old shit, so I have lots! :razz:


Vinny Pazienza - The only reason anyone knows him is for his mouth and the fact he's Italian. THE MAN COULD NOT FIGHT!

Mike Tyson - Nothing like the blending of a violent street thug and a lotta money. There's a nice mixture for ya. :roll:

Sugar Ray Robinson- From every account I've read or heard, an abusive husband and father, and a head so big it's a wonder he could enter any room for the size of the doorway.

Riddick Bowe - You are who you associate with; at least that's the saying.



There's probably more. I excluded active fighters as well.

[Icemmann]

Most of the fights that failed to materialize were at 168. Besides Michalczeswki (I blame both of them and it takes from both of their standings that they never fought), Roy pretty much cleaned out the contenders and title holders @ 175.

True, I'd blame both of them. But Roy himself could have made a a few other fights materialize, but seemd he rather talk them up but then take the path of least resistance. no this isn't a "Teh Roy is teh overratted bum wit teh glazzjaw!@!!?$!" hate.

It's a "watching a guy that showed the potential to be one of the greatest fighters put his talents to waste" dislike.

[mightyd40]

There's probably more. I excluded active fighters as well.
i did too because there would be a ton more...

[jonesjrp4p1]

ik you said historical fighters but everyone changed that so

tarver - he beat my fav fighter haha

fritzie zivic - didnt like his dirtiness like blinding you with his thumb

duran - overrated by most although he was a great fighter and i didnt like his personality



im sure theres many more but i stated the obvious ones

[Thread Stealer]

Sugar Ray Robinson- From every account I've read or heard, an abusive husband and father, and a head so big it's a wonder he could enter any room for the size of the doorway.


If you replace "Robinson" with "Leonard", this also probably applies.

[salsanchezfan]

If you replace "Robinson" with "Leonard", this also probably applies.


...............Yeah that's true, but if I said that I'd be getting X-mas cards and shit from Rooster, and that would just feel weird.

[Icemmann]

...............Yeah that's true, but if I said that I'd be getting X-mas cards and shit from Rooster, and that would just feel weird.

Probably naked Hector Camacho pictures that he stamps with his buttcheeks, then signs "From Macho, kind regards".

[salsanchezfan]

Probably naked Hector Camacho pictures that he stamps with his buttcheeks, then signs "From Macho, kind regards".


.........One more holiday shot to hell. Thanks! :good

[brooklyn1550]

Floyd Mayweather, Jr. - Great talent/future HOFer, just dislike his personality (in other words, I would love to see him KO'd)

[jonesjrp4p1]

oh and i dont like vicious boxer just bc he is so good and i never wanna meet him in the ring he might unleash 21 power shots in a row on me

[Icemmann]

oh and i dont like vicious boxer just bc he is so good and i never wanna meet him in the ring he might unleash 21 power shots in a row on me

p4p he's better than squatdog, but head to head it is too difficult to choose one.

[Muchmoore]

p4p he's better than squatdog, but head to head it is too difficult to choose one.

Zelenoff spars with heavyweights though...

[Icemmann]

Zelenoff spars with heavyweights though...

Not one that took a bodyshot from squatdog.

[Amsterdam]

Floyd Mayweather, Jr. - Great talent/future HOFer, just dislike his personality (in other words, I would love to see him KO'd)

Yes, but there is a chance he will taint his legacy badly and it will render his ATG ranking questionable, especially since many of his biggest wins have crapped out shortly after, not that it has much to do with when they fought, but people can percieve it that way.

I personally rank him an ATG, but he's become a comfort zone cunt and will taint himself to where others may forever question it. His resume has immense holes and there is no excuse for it, as he's a massive name in boxing, a P4P #1 American(which means he can get any fight he wants and it will generate big money) and the fact that he's got the HBO machine backing him.

For Floyd not to fight the best, and damn near everyone wants to fight him at 147, several of whom could beat him, is a nasty mark on his record.

He lost to Castillo in their first to me as well.

[My dinner with Conteh]

1. Tyson. That's one evil man.

2. Hopkins. Mind-numbing bore, awful to watch. Hit and hold specialist, yet came in with Executioner garb. In short, an embarrassment.

3. Hamed. A pure gobshite of the highest order. A bloke who's bound to beat his missus every night.


Funny enough, all have done time. But I can forgive Hopkins because he's generally turned his life around and is a true success story- but his fights...:dead

[fists of fury]

Hmmmm...let's see

I dislike Ray Mercer now, because he's embarrasing himself and picking up purses for doing nothing. Also tried to bribe Jesse Ferguson many years ago.

Naseem Hamed - A supremely arrogant piece of trash who sometimes belittled outclassed opponents. His "who gives a fuck what the crowd thinks" line on national television sealed his fate in my eyes.

Hector Camacho - Calling himself "Macho Man" and running like his backside was on fire in his post-Rosario fights.

Muhammad Ali - Ali as he is now is fine, but in his prime he was a militant racist loudmouth. Only fellow militant racists could have possibly liked him then. He also showed a cruel side to his nature.

[Jack Dempsey]

Naseem Hamed, a jug eared piece of shit without a single redeeming feature

[Minotauro]

Tony Zale not because of his attitude or anything like that just the fact he ducked so many contenders. The likes of La Motta, Burley, Williams, Marshall, Moore, Booker, Lytell, Chase and Cocoa Kid. The title being frozen was also to blame but the fact is he never fought any of them and yet his legacy does not seem to be effected while theirs is.

Look at all this top 100 or 50 p4p almost none of them include the like of Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall or Eddie Booker most people haven't even heard of them. And I believe that most of the fighters I mentioned would have beaten Zale. I guess the main reason I dislike him is he ducked so many challengers many of whom ended up poor because no matter how many wins they got they never got a chance at the belt which would have guaranteed them a payday they deserved. Also out of all the names mentioned I believe only Burley, LaMotta and Moore are in the Hall of Fame.

[ChrisPontius]

Riddick Bowe. His manager, forgot his name, was a punk too. They were brutal fights but i can't say i felt sorry for Bowe when Golota beat the shit out of him twice and returned his usual favor of fouling.

[fists of fury]

[quote=ChrisPontius] His manager, forgot his name, was a punk too.quote]

Rock Newman.

I hated Newman too.

[Titan1]

John Ruiz-for losing to Roy Jones and James Toney
Roy Jones-not fighting everyone, despite his talent
Floyd Mayweather Jr-ego
Howard Davis Jr-I don't truly dislike, but doesn't seem to want to own up to certain things that happened in his career.

[mcvey]

Which historical fighters do actively dislike, and why?
Tyson,Hamed,Camacho,Hide,and Gonzales ,that big Cuban who tortured Snipes,I was glad to see Bowe stretch him.

[miamite]

I couldn't say I hate any fighter personally.

I also can not understand how you can say a man like Ali was racist. I mean, that is just mind boggling to me. When taking the time period's circumstances into account, it's extremely ironic to call him racist. Do the ones who call him that understand the period of time Ali was from when these remarks of his came out? Do you realize that the I Have a Dream speech by Martin Luther King Jr. was given just a year before Ali won the heavyweight championship? Of course you know what life was like, but it is apparent you don't understand the effects of it.

[Thread Stealer]

Teddy Atlas:

Well, he's more known as a trainer. Overrated trainer who embarasses his fighters and tries to bring attention to himself with his antics. His shining moment on how he "willed" Moorer to victory is a myth, or at the very least, an exaggeration. Repetitive commentator who is also a hypocrite. Yes Teddy, it's terrible when there's a grotesque mismatch in the two fighters. Remind us again who you matched Muriqi up with when you worked with him?!

[Lostmykeys]

Jack Johnson.

God damn I hate Jack Johnson.

Not really sure why, but I always have and always will.

[Thread Stealer]

Jack Johnson.

God damn I hate Jack Johnson.

Not really sure why, but I always have and always will.

Because he's boring as hell to watch?

[jackiebrown]

the guys i dont see eye to eye with are

sugar ray leonard...guy just dosnt do it for me .. fought in wars.. proved to be the better of the final 4 .. just cant stand the prick!

mike moorer .. after seeing his interviews for the legendary nights foreman documentary... the guy needs his diaper changed and a new bottle post stat!

[Lostmykeys]

Because he's boring as hell to watch?

I think it's because everyone ranks him as a top ATG heavyweight, but every fight i've seen of him he liiks like shit. People call him a defensive master when the defense i've seen from him is rudimentary at best.

[Vantage_West]

"one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter"

[Napoleon]

Jermaine Taylor
James Toney
Roy Jones

[red cobra]

I generally have a hard time actively disliking a boxer, as I have so much more respect for them than I do other athletes, but nowadays, the thuggish, trash-talking, over rated ones have earned my contempt. Guys like Roy Jones, James Toney, Floyd and Zab. The rap/thug/trash talking takes it's toll and is bad for boxing. No class, or sportsmanship is ever exhibited by these guys. Not a one of these guys displays the class of Shane Mosely for instance, or the are as articulate and media savvy like Sugar Ray Leonard. I won't even begin to compare them in way to Floyd Patterson, who, no matter what you thought about him as a fighter, behaved and conducted himself in dignified manner like a man. Boxing is more than just who's the fastest or baddest or the bestest, it's how you comport youself in the public eye and how you represent yourself and your sport. Fighters in the fifties for instance, were for the most part sportsman, and didn't behave like chimpanzees in heat like the thug types do today.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Do you really think his early fights and the Trinidad fight were boring?

The fighter i most dislike is Ali. Look at his behaviour against Frazier. That man gave him money during his exile and stepped in for Ali to fight. How can you like a guy like that?



How can you like Hopkins, he's a prick? It's not just his fights that bore me, it's him. His interviews, everything. He's just a very boring man.:dead

[Bill1234]

Mike Tyson. He's a bad guy out of the ring, and a dirty fighter in it. Typicaly I would hate Hopkins, but I have no clue why, but when ever he fights I find my self hoping he wins and I don't know why. I don't like his style, his tactics, or him all around, and yet I keep hopin he wins.:huh

[mr. magoo]

How can you like Hopkins, he's a prick? It's not just his fights that bore me, it's him. His interviews, everything. He's just a very boring man.:dead

How does being boring equate to being a prick? I happen to know some people who are extremely boring. In fact, they should have a warning label on them that says " do not attempt to opperate machinary after speaking to this person ", yet they a happen to be very nice people. On the otherhand, I know some folks who are total assholes, yet lead very interesting lives, and act the part of it.

So you see, prickness and boring are two entirely different traits that don't always exist in the same person. :deal

[Bill1234]

How does being boring equate to being a prick? I happen to know some people who are extremely boring. In fact, they should have a warning label on them that says " do not attempt to opperate machinary after speaking to this person ", yet they a happen to be very nice people. On the otherhand, I know some folks who are total assholes, yet lead very interesting lives, and act the part of it.

So you see, prickness and boring are two entirely different traits that don't always exist in the same person. :deal


.............................and yet Hopkins figured out how to do it.:-((

[Jack]

Hopkins and his fans piss me off too. Am I the only one who doesn't consider him a top 10 middleweight? His record is extremely thin at that weight. His biggest wins were over small fighters, who unlike people like Hearns, Duran, Toney etc., did nothing at the weight Hopkins fought them at. His two best wins are probably Johnson and Eastman, as they were a far bigger threat to him than Tito, DLH or Winky was.

I do like those last three fighters a lot though, so I may be biased. His record is not that impressive though. The two losses to Taylor, him struggling with Mercado and being outclassed against Jones are more telling of his talents than beating a figher who looked out of shape at 170lbs.

De La Hoya should have lost against Sturm. Tito didn't beat anyone of real substance at 160lbs and his power, his main strength, was inneffective there. Winky was in awful shape and again, was way past his prime weight.

It's laughable people nominate him for being the greatest middleweight of all-time. I'd put Winky ahead of him for sure.

Inside the ring he is horrible to watch. Outside the ring he is horrible to listen to.

[Chicago Nights]

Tarver. So much talk for such a mediocre fight record.

[Lex]

Winky was in awful shape and again, was way past his prime weight.

Eh, I wouldn't be too hard on Winky. He's a light-middleweight who took a chance that going in heavy would work as well for him as it did for Michael Spinks, Evander Holyfield and even James Toney. Instead it worked for him about as well as it did for Vasily Jirov at heavyweight.

I don't think Winky was so much out of shape as bogged down by trying to bulk up.

In the old days a guy trying to nab a belt at a heavier weight class wouldn't bulk up much. He'd stay at his ideal weight and plan on keeping his familiar ability to move while trying to avoid being tired out by the bigger man from body blows, clinching, etc.

[My dinner with Conteh]

So you see, prickness and boring are two entirely different traits that don't always exist in the same person. :deal


Well they do in this case you boring prick. :good

[Sweet Science]

Frazier. It pisses me off that he won't let his hatred for Ali go. He has been bitter for so long. I don't really dislike him though, I just find it sad & annoying that such a great fighter could hold a grudge and ill feeling for so long.

[META5]

Frazier. It pisses me off that he won't let his hatred for Ali go. He has been bitter for so long. I don't really dislike him though, I just find it sad & annoying that such a great fighter could hold a grudge and ill feeling for so long.

The man was publically abused by a man that he had helped out in private. Himself and his family were abused as a result of Ali's harsh words ... if Frazier wants to hold a grudge, as much as I like Ali, I back him in his right to do so.

As 'funny' or 'innocent ribbing' or 'just to promote the fight' we hold Ali's words to be, the man's words carried power and like Uncle Ben said, "With great power comes great responsibility". Ali's words carried consequences for both himself and others ... Frazier's intense feelings are a justified consequence of such words. Sure, I'd love it if Frazier could just let it go ... but when you're publically abused with your family subjected to abuse as a result, especially from a man that you helped out, would you be so willing to let bygones be bygones?

[Quick Cash]

Jermain Taylor
Carlos Monzon
Antonio Tarver

[Sweet Science]

:good Frazier helped Ali out with money and stepped in for his return in the ring and in return he was called an uncle Tom, an Gorilla and his family was threated with death by Ali´s fans. I totally understand Frazier´s grudge and in a way i share i with him. As good as Ali was as, he was as pathetic, thoughltess and silly.

What I find pathetic, thoughtless and silly is the way Frazier pokes fun at Ali's physical well being right now. Saying he's proud of the fact that he contributed to his deteriation and current state. That is just plain fucked up.

While I am not condoning Ali's behaviour and comments running up to the fights with Frazier. I actually think he was unnecessarily mean and definately crossed the line. However, this can to a small extent be attributed to the stupidity that youth and big ego's bring. Ali deeply regrets what he said, fraziers sons have forgiven Ali for his comments, even the late Eddie Futch commented that Frazier needs to let this go.

At Fraziers age he needs to realise that he is only hurting himself with his bitterness.

[SchweitzerMan]

His words towards Frazier is probably the one thing I dislike about Ali. Sure, you can try and bug a guy to promote the fight but calling him an Uncle Tom, a sellout, a white man's champ and all that isn't right.
He called Frazier all that yet had no problem taking instruction from white trainer Angelo Dundee. I'm surprised no one ever called him on that

[META5]

What I find pathetic, thoughtless and silly is the way Frazier pokes fun at Ali's physical well being right now. Saying he's proud of the fact that he contributed to his deteriation and current state. That is just plain fucked up.

While I am not condoning Ali's behaviour and comments running up to the fights with Frazier. I actually think he was unnecessarily mean and definately crossed the line. However, this can to a small extent be attributed to the stupidity that youth and big ego's bring. Ali deeply regrets what he said, fraziers sons have forgiven Ali for his comments, even the late Eddie Futch commented that Frazier needs to let this go.

At Fraziers age he needs to realise that he is only hurting himself with his bitterness.

Agreed.

However, one could argue that it is the ugliness of karma ... whether Frazier is being childish or unreasonable isn't my place to judge. I would say, however, that the pride in Ali's condition shows no more maturity than Ali's words all those years ago, perhaps even less, considering that Joe has the benefit of greater life experience than the Ali that ushered those words.

[Sweet Science]

Agreed.

However, one could argue that it is the ugliness of karma ... whether Frazier is being childish or unreasonable isn't my place to judge. I would say, however, that the pride in Ali's condition shows no more maturity than Ali's words all those years ago, perhaps even less, considering that Joe has the benefit of greater life experience than the Ali that ushered those words.

I understand what you're saying. We reap what we sow.

I would just like to think that when I get to a certain age I will acquire more wisdom and understanding. I am not questioning his integrity and character, but I just think he is better than that. Hard headedness and pride have been the downfall of many great men. A man of Fraziers calibre needs to mellow and put things into perspective.

[META5]

I understand what you're saying. We reap what we sow.

I would just like to think that when I get to a certain age I will acquire more wisdom and understanding. I am not doubting his integrity and character, but I just think he is better than that. A man of Fraziers calibre needs to mellow and put things into perspective.

Sometimes the things that we need the most are easily seen by all but our very selves.

At the end of the day, Frazier's bitterness wouldn't stop Ali's notoriety and all-time status; and Ali's words didn't stop Frazier from having the greatest single win in all of history, IMO, considering the opponent and unique circumstances of the fight.

[Dostoevsky]

Jimmy Young

Just finished watching his fight with Foreman, it was a good win but he acted like a little bitch, everytime Foreman would clinch him, Young would make the most ridiculous looking faces of outrage against one of Foremans tactics trying to get the referee to intervene and Young was constantly whining to the ref like a little girl.
Most of his complaints were non-existant and he made himself look like a complete twat with those constipated looking faces he was putting on.

I wish Foreman hadn't of paced himself so oddly and just bombed Young out of there within a round.....oh well.

[Stonehands89]

Fireman Jim Flynn.

His headbutting against Johnson made Holyfield and Hopkins look like cherubs. And he was a vicious racist. Langford knocked him cuckoo out like three times. Thank you Sam. Another Boston great.

[djb2009]

Wlad i think hes a tosser

[Sweet Science]

Why don't you like Wlad?

[Vantage_West]

vitali - if there is one person who i just love to hate it's him. was a truly ugly fighter with a rubbish jab and awful technique, immensly arrogant. and what a prick after the fight against lewis to complain that his dreads cut him and all that...and after all that he expects to get a title shot after being out of the ring for so long

[Vantage_West]

corrales - i hate to say this but i hated diego when he was alive have alot of respect for him but i just didnt like his way of gretting out of fights if he could ,his manner,and just being a twat to opponants.


ray leonard - i actually hate the guy i was bought into him being this amazing fighter who fought everybody but he never fought anybody that had no money to them.
his whole business was being crass ego guy who would politricks to get comebacks and fights which would make him the star of the show..it was all about him it was never about the other man just him...thats why i hate him he was just a man who made a business on how great he was...he practicly lost against hagler,was being outboxed by hearns in both fights and duran a natural lightwieght beat him like he was the smaller man.

i dont know how we rate him so highly. a good fighter but never fought the opponants at the right time.hearns was too young duran was too old and overwieght when he was in his wieght changing era,hagler was at the end of his career anyways...and actually ray never gave marvin rematch never gave ayron pryor a fight fought benitez WAY over the hill.

does anyone understand me on this.

[My dinner with Conteh]

i dont know how we rate him so highly. a good fighter but never fought the opponants at the right time.hearns was too young duran was too old and overwieght when he was in his wieght changing era,hagler was at the end of his career anyways...and actually ray never gave marvin rematch never gave ayron pryor a fight fought benitez WAY over the hill.

does anyone understand me on this.


We did, until this bit. A bit embarrassing really. "Hearns was too young, Duran too old". Yeah, that was Leonar'd fault too...as was the war with Iraq, Three Mile Island and the oil shocks of 1973.

[Thread Stealer]

vitali - if there is one person who i just love to hate it's him. was a truly ugly fighter with a rubbish jab and awful technique, immensly arrogant. and what a prick after the fight against lewis to complain that his dreads cut him and all that...and after all that he expects to get a title shot after being out of the ring for so long

Great. :good Vitali is quite possibly my least favorite fighter of all-time.

corrales - i hate to say this but i hated diego when he was alive have alot of respect for him but i just didnt like his way of gretting out of fights if he could ,his manner,and just being a twat to opponants.


Chico pulled out of one fight, after Castillo for the second straight time, missed the contract weight. Chico looked like a fool when he missed the weight in his next fight, but there's nothing wrong with pulling out after the guy misses the weight for the 2nd straight time. Actually, what Castillo did in the 2nd fight was far worse when he and his team tried to manipulate the scales.



ray leonard - i actually hate the guy i was bought into him being this amazing fighter who fought everybody but he never fought anybody that had no money to them.
his whole business was being crass ego guy who would politricks to get comebacks and fights which would make him the star of the show..it was all about him it was never about the other man just him...thats why i hate him he was just a man who made a business on how great he was...he practicly lost against hagler,was being outboxed by hearns in both fights and duran a natural lightwieght beat him like he was the smaller man.

i dont know how we rate him so highly. a good fighter but never fought the opponants at the right time.hearns was too young duran was too old and overwieght when he was in his wieght changing era,hagler was at the end of his career anyways...and actually ray never gave marvin rematch never gave ayron pryor a fight fought benitez WAY over the hill.

does anyone understand me on this.

Benitez was 21 and probably in the prime of his career. He was never the most consistent guy due to his laziness, but he certainly was not past his prime. Saying he was WAY over the hill is ridiculous, to say the least.

It would've been nice if Ray fought Pryor, but a champion has no obligation (IMO) to fight the top fighters in the weight class below (or above) him. He has an obligation to fight the top fighters in his own division, which is what Ray did.

Duran was in his late 20s and in/near his prime. He was at his best at lightweight but it wasn't like Leonard made him jump 2 divisions to fight him. Duran had left 135 and fought a few times @ 147, and even dominated a world class welter in Palomino before splitting 2 fights with Ray.

There was actually talk and hope that the fight between Leonard and Hearns would come BEFORE September 1981. Dundee wanted to delay it to build hype, and also had Leonard fight Kalule at 154, probably to get Ray some more experience and confidence in beating a bigger guy, as Tommy was such a taller and rangy fighter.

Hagler was declining, but Leonard was at an equal disadvantage, or maybe even more of one, than Hagler. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, just once in 5 years, had a detached retina, and how much experience did he have against middleweights?

[C. M. Clay II]

John L. Sullivan. The guy was probably one of the most built up athletes in sports history. His style was primitive, he ran away from Peter Jackson, and his unfounded attitude towards blacks was disgusting.

[cross_trainer]

John L. Sullivan. The guy was probably one of the most built up athletes in sports history. His style was primitive, he ran away from Peter Jackson, and his unfounded attitude towards blacks was disgusting.

Built up?

Re: Racism. Yes, he was extremely racist...but at least he suffered similar hatred as a result of his own ethnicity (Irish) from the predominantly Anglo-Saxon culture at the time. Racism is more understandable when (like Ali's) you encounter prejudice yourself.

[mr. magoo]

Great. :good Vitali is quite possibly my least favorite fighter of all-time.



Chico pulled out of one fight, after Castillo for the second straight time, missed the contract weight. Chico looked like a fool when he missed the weight in his next fight, but there's nothing wrong with pulling out after the guy misses the weight for the 2nd straight time. Actually, what Castillo did in the 2nd fight was far worse when he and his team tried to manipulate the scales.



Benitez was 21 and probably in the prime of his career. He was never the most consistent guy due to his laziness, but he certainly was not past his prime. Saying he was WAY over the hill is ridiculous, to say the least.

It would've been nice if Ray fought Pryor, but a champion has no obligation (IMO) to fight the top fighters in the weight class below (or above) him. He has an obligation to fight the top fighters in his own division, which is what Ray did.

Duran was in his late 20s and in/near his prime. He was at his best at lightweight but it wasn't like Leonard made him jump 2 divisions to fight him. Duran had left 135 and fought a few times @ 147, and even dominated a world class welter in Palomino before splitting 2 fights with Ray.

There was actually talk and hope that the fight between Leonard and Hearns would come BEFORE September 1981. Dundee wanted to delay it to build hype, and also had Leonard fight Kalule at 154, probably to get Ray some more experience and confidence in beating a bigger guy, as Tommy was such a taller and rangy fighter.

Hagler was declining, but Leonard was at an equal disadvantage, or maybe even more of one, than Hagler. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, just once in 5 years, had a detached retina, and how much experience did he have against middleweights?

Excellent post,

How daft of someone to make some of the uninformed statements that the last author made regarding Leonard's career, or that of his opposition's . Duran was 28 years old, and would continue to fight for years to come. Hearns was a world champ in his prime. Hagler was one of the best middleweights of all time, and had a tremendous adavantage over Leonard for the reasons you gave.

Thanks for correcting Vantage West, as some people should really do their research before speaking/writing.

[Stonehands89]

Built up?

Re: Racism. Yes, he was extremely racist...but at least he suffered similar hatred as a result of his own ethnicity (Irish) from the predominantly Anglo-Saxon culture at the time. Racism is more understandable when (like Ali's) you encounter prejudice yourself.
On the contrary, John L's racism against blacks was particularly asinine precisely because he was on the receiving end from the host culture.
If John L badmouthed the English, well okay, that is a bit more understandable. But blacks? If he had more character, he'd have been more sympathetic! He's the victim of bullying who himself becomes a bully.

Malcolm X said that "black racism is [by and large] a reaction to white racism" and is far more understandable. But if Malcolm hated Puerto Ricans because of what the Irish did to him that brands him with the same rebuke.

[C. M. Clay II]

On the contrary, John L's racism against blacks was particularly asinine precisely because he was on the receiving end from the host culture.
If John L badmouthed the English, well okay, that is a bit more understandable. But blacks? If he had more character, he'd have been more sympathetic! He's the victim of bullying who himself becomes a bully.

Malcolm X said that "black racism is [by and large] a reaction to white racism" and is far more understandable. But if Malcolm hated Puerto Ricans because of what the Irish did to him that brands him with the same rebuke.

Took the words right out of my mouth. If Sullivan wants to hate the British, let him hate the British, since they are the people his anger should be directed at. But to hate a different people that did nothing to you is simply unacceptible.:good

[DocDevil]

Jimmy Young

Just finished watching his fight with Foreman, it was a good win but he acted like a little bitch, everytime Foreman would clinch him, Young would make the most ridiculous looking faces of outrage against one of Foremans tactics trying to get the referee to intervene and Young was constantly whining to the ref like a little girl.
Most of his complaints were non-existant and he made himself look like a complete twat with those constipated looking faces he was putting on.

I wish Foreman hadn't of paced himself so oddly and just bombed Young out of there within a round.....oh well.

Iron Duke,watched the fight when it happened,and that is the way I still remember it.A whinning,complaining Jimmy Young turning the crowd against Forman.Young and his camp,complained to the media about Foreman weeks before the fight.George hands were tied from fighting his fight.Anyway,could not force myself to watch that again.

[cross_trainer]

Took the words right out of my mouth. If Sullivan wants to hate the British, let him hate the British, since they are the people his anger should be directed at. But to hate a different people that did nothing to you is simply unacceptible.:good

I don't see it that way. Hating a group of people for their skin color, ethnicity, etc. is equally irrational regardless of what some of them have done in the past. It makes about as much sense as holding guys with webbed toes responsible for Stalin, or blaming blue-eyed, brown haired Austrians for Hitler.

Sullivan was a racist who suffered racism, and so was Ali. If Sullivan believed the English were racially inferior, his belief would be just as stupid.

[cross_trainer]

On the contrary, John L's racism against blacks was particularly asinine precisely because he was on the receiving end from the host culture.
If John L badmouthed the English, well okay, that is a bit more understandable. But blacks? If he had more character, he'd have been more sympathetic! He's the victim of bullying who himself becomes a bully.

Malcolm X said that "black racism is [by and large] a reaction to white racism" and is far more understandable. But if Malcolm hated Puerto Ricans because of what the Irish did to him that brands him with the same rebuke.

It's strange, but often true that individuals forced to the bottom of the social ladder dislike other persecuted groups as much as they do their persecutors.

[mr. magoo]

It's strange, but often true that individuals forced to the bottom of the social ladder dislike other persecuted groups as much as they do their persecutors.

Bizarre, but often true.

[cross_trainer]

Bizarre, but often true.
One wonders why. :huh

[cross_trainer]

Or, to put it another way: If I tried to justify hating the Mongolians because their distant ancestors destroyed half the civilized world, it would be just as asinine as hating the Mongolians for no reason at all. You can't hold a "race" (dubious term by the by) responsible for its ancestors and/or people who look like them.

[mr. magoo]

Or, to put it another way: If I tried to justify hating the Mongolians because their distant ancestors destroyed half the civilized world, it would be just as asinine as hating the Mongolians for no reason at all. You can't hold a "race" (dubious term by the by) responsible for its ancestors and/or people who look like them.

Agreed,

To this day, a lot of cultures disdain the English for some of the atrocities performed in the days of the monarchy, which coincides greatly with the wrongful blame that you're illuding to.

[Holmes' Jab]

John Ruiz
Naseem Hamed
Mayweather Jr
Riddick Bowe
Hector Camacho
James Toney
Mike Tyson (more so post prison)


Many of these guys were/are hellishly talented fighters, but ultimately nasty people.

[cross_trainer]

Agreed,

To this day, a lot of cultures disdain the English for some of the atrocities performed in the days of the monarchy, which coincides greatly with the wrongful blame that you're illuding to.
At the same time, the English abolished slavery around the world--the only culture in history to have done so. They brought Parliamentary democracy to quite a few nations that had previously been living under petty kings (India, for instance), and brought the rest of the world up to speed technologically.

Mind you, they were not unequivocal altruists. A brief look at imperial history will demonstrate that. Especially in their early days, they were guilty of exterminating several groups of relatively innocent people (there's a fiery furnace reserved for some Guianan planatation owners, I'm sure). But when the Victorian English took over during the days of high imperialism in the 19th century, they managed to eliminate a surprising number of the world's problems.

Each generation has its own characteristics and voice--modern Americans are culturally no closer to their Civil War ancestors than they are to Russia or Finland. For that matter, within a generation there's so much diversity that hating "white people", "English", or anybody else is stupid in the extreme.

[mr. magoo]

There is no monarchy in England anymore? The Queen is dead? :D

I'm reffering to when the Monarchy was the chief body of rule in Britain, and thus a world empire.

[Sweet Science]

At the same time, the English abolished slavery around the world--the only culture in history to have done so. They brought Parliamentary democracy to quite a few nations that had previously been living under petty kings (India, for instance), and brought the rest of the world up to speed technologically.

Mind you, they were not unequivocal altruists. A brief look at imperial history will demonstrate that. Especially in their early days, they were guilty of exterminating several groups of relatively innocent people (there's a fiery furnace reserved for some Guianan planatation owners, I'm sure). But when the Victorian English took over during the days of high imperialism in the 19th century, they managed to eliminate a surprising number of the world's problems.


The British raped, pilaged and looted many less fortunate countries by claiming they were helping to civilise the so called pagan's and heathens under the guise of Christianity. They were shameless in their exploitation of less fortunate nations and they deserve any ill feeling toward them. By the way I'm British born and bred, though I'm certainly not proud of this.

[mr. magoo]

The British raped, pilaged and looted many less fortunate countries by claiming they were helping to civilise the so called pagan's and heathens under the guise of Christianity. They were shameless in their exploitation of less fortunate nations and they deserve any ill feeling toward them. By the way I'm British born and bred, though I'm certainly not proud of this.

All of the above is true, and in addition, the English tormented their neighbors, the Scots and the Irish as well. However, Cross Trainer has a very good point, that they deserve credit for some of the good that was bestowed upon modern culture and world government as well.

That's coming from an American by the way.

[cross_trainer]

The British raped, pilaged and looted many less fortunate countries by claiming they were helping to civilise the so called pagan's and heathens under the guise of Christianity. They were shameless in their exploitation of less fortunate nations and they deserve any ill feeling toward them. By the way I'm British born and bred, though I'm certainly not proud of this.
They did significantly less of this in the 19th century than any other European nation. More importantly, they did far less of it than most of the rulers they took over from, and were able to create a relatively fair set of laws that many former colonies still retain variants of. Parliamentary democracy, anti-slaving laws, barriers against some of the more destructive customs (Indian child marriage, for instance) and remnants of the British educational system are still very influential in the former Empire.

As to British actions before the mid-to-late 19th century, I agree with you. They were generally conquerors and morally reprehensible by modern standards--but were roughly as rotten as every other country during that period.

Incidentally, I do not believe that "the British" deserve any ill-feeling. You cannot be held responsible for what your great-great-grandfathers did--YOU were not firing the Maxim guns, running sugar plantations, or handing out smallpox blankets.