British posters:More 4 Tues 11th, ten pm - A documentary about the Thrilla in Manilla

[McGrain]

Acceptable excuses for not watching -

You are 8 and your bedtime is 9

You are out of the country on a stag do in Prague/Amsterdam/Dublin.

You are going to the funeral of a sibling

You are blind.

[Godfather]

Question: what if ive seen numerous Ali biographies and seen at least two documentaries on the thrilla in Manilla?

[Caponecartels]

How about Americans?

[SteveO]

How about Americans?

Yes, any place to see this in the states?

[McGrain]

Yes, any place to see this in the states?

Possibly online boys - try "channel 4 online" or "more 4 online" for links. Most of their stuff is delayed online these days, if delyed. But the True Stories series is cracking, it's watchble if it is about ponies or girls talking about shopping - this is going to be classic.

[SteveO]

Possibly online boys - try "channel 4 online" or "more 4 online" for links. Most of their stuff is delayed online these days, if delyed. But the True Stories series is cracking, it's watchble if it is about ponies or girls talking about shopping - this is going to be classic.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Here's a write-up on it. No word on whether it will be on the site.

[McGrain]

Bumpity

[Unforgiven]

I shall be watching. :good

[Smokin Destroyer]

I have just blown a bird out so I can watch this in peace.

[McGrain]

I have just blown a bird out so I can watch this in peace.

:lol: :good :-(

[Nemesis]

If I watch another Ali documentary I think I am going..........................

[Minotauro]

just put it on the planner.

[McGrain]

Man, I hope some of you boys are watching this. They have set Joe Frazier down to watch the Manilla fight for the first time ever.

[teeto]

watching it right now McGrain, thanks for telling of this.

[Unforgiven]

Anyone else think Ferdie Pacheco was exposed as a complete asshole?

[mcvey]

Acceptable excuses for not watching -

You are 8 and your bedtime is 9

You are out of the country on a stag do in Prague/Amsterdam/Dublin.

You are going to the funeral of a sibling

You are blind.
Thanks very much for the heads up .I was surprised at Frazier's condition and his financial circumstances don't look to prosperous either, a great shame, he certainly earned every cent he got .It's a pity he and Ali are not reconciled ,but you can understand his bitterness, some of Ali's comments were unforgivable.Ali looked like he was ready to drop after the 13th rd,he underestimated Frazier's determination and courage ,and nearly paid the price.
I think a comment of Ali's says it all "I couldnt be who I am without him and he couldn't be who he is without me".They defined each other as warriors ,but ruined each other as boxers.

[mcvey]

Anyone else think Ferdie Pacheco was exposed as a complete asshole?
I was very surprised at his derogatory comments about Frazier.

[Arka]

Great archival footage.It repeats tonight,but I hope I can catch it at a later date.

[Arka]

I was very surprised at his derogatory comments about Frazier.
What did he say? I missed it.

[teeto]

Pacheco said that stuff, i never expected that, he was a friend of Ali and you can understand his bias, but think about this, none of Frazier's side had anything derogatory to say of Ali, and you'd think that Marvis especially, would have a little bit of a rite to.

Frazier's people seemed a lot nicer about it.

[mcvey]

What did he say? I missed it.
Called him very dumb, and said the toy gorilla that Ali had for the Manila fight was ugly as hell ,and looked just like Frazier,now apart from the racial overtones ,and the fact that Fraziers face understandably has some wear and tear on it now he is 63 and had all those wars ,I thought he had a rather pleasant face when he was young ,it is unpalatable to hear a guy who had the advantages of a college education and the security of a profession for an occupation ,to be casting slurs on a blue collar guy who made his was through life putting his heart and soul on the line.

[Unforgiven]

Pacheco's comments about Frazier being dumb and the way he delivered those comments were remarkably unpalatable IMO.

He was revelling in agreeing that Frazier was ugly and looked like a Gorilla.

And then, in light of these comments, when he says the 14th round of Manila was what boxing is all about, you have to wonder whether he simply means he loved seeing frazier getting pummelled.

[Caponecartels]

is there any way for Americans to watch this?

[stonerose]

great programme, just finishing watchin it on plus 1, great invention by the way. two , true legends.

[McGrain]

Anyone else think Ferdie Pacheco was exposed as a complete asshole?

Hell yes. Man is an idiot. In my view he always was, but in his defence, he IS getting old.

[Robbi]

Pacheco was very ignorant to the interviewer when questioned were asked. Old age is obviously getting to Pacheco.

"Manila is a very odd place to stage a fight is it not?" Then Pacheco loses the place and starts questioning what the interviewer knows about boxing. Perfectly legitimate question and not a dumb one.

I liked how it lasted two hours, rather than the usual one for most boxing documentaries. And they crammed in quite a lot and never spoke about the same scenario for too long.

This documentary was pieced together over a period of time. At the end of it Frazier revealed his age as 63 years, which means it was finished last year as he turned 64 in January this year.

Most of what was revealed I already knew.

[Robbi]

Although not contained in the documentary, I agree with Pacheco regarding his decision to leave Ali's camp after Manila. He a letter to three or four members of the camp, Ali included, with test results which showed Ali's liver was falling to pieces. And he recieved nothing back from any of them. They were all in denial.

I'm shocked as to why Ali deciding to continue fighting after the Holmes farce. You can question why he came back after a few showings, post Manila. But I have never seen a fighter look so useless throughout a fight, considering it went a few rounds to show what he had left. It wasn't a one round blowout. He blamed his performances on thyroid pills and losing too much weight. To make another comeback against Berbick was stupid. And what makes it more stupid is that Berbick never even had a title. When Ali decided to fight Holmes after two years in retirement it was the challenge of winning the title for the 4th time which got his juices flowing, although money also played a major reason.


He calls Frazier dumb.

[Arka]

Although not contained in the documentary, I agree with Pacheco regarding his decision to leave Ali's camp after Manila. He a letter to three or four members of the camp, Ali included, with test results which showed Ali's liver was falling to pieces. And he recieved nothing back from any of them. They were all in denial.

I'm shocked as to why Ali deciding to continue fighting after the Holmes farce. You can question why he came back after a few showings, post Manila. But I have never seen a fighter look so useless throughout a fight, considering it went a few rounds to show what he had left. It wasn't a one round blowout. He blamed his performances on thyroid pills and losing too much weight. To make another comeback against Berbick was stupid. And what makes it more stupid is that Berbick never even had a title. When Ali decided to fight Holmes after two years in retirement it was the challenge of winning the title for the 4th time which got his juices flowing, although money also played a major reason.


He calls Frazier dumb.


The Hauser biography of Ali says Pacheco left after the Shavers fight.No?

[Robbi]

The Hauser biography of Ali says Pacheco left after the Shavers fight.No?

Correct. I should have known as I've been reading bits over the last week or so from the Hauser biography. And I happened to read that part just last week come to think of it. My opinion on Pacheco's decision still stands the same. Cheers for the correction.

He did leave after Manila as I stated, but you picked up on it that I meant right after that fight.

[Robbi]

I recorded it all and it started at 10pm until 11.55pm. It showed that after the adverts were edited out, precisely as well, that it lasted 1hr 30 mins on my timer.

[Vantage_West]

Anyone else think Ferdie Pacheco was exposed as a complete asshole?it's weired i have seen him alot and kinda like his style. in the pettway-brown prefight he out smarted and outclassed and outcharisma don king,butch lewis and a stereotypical ibf beuraucrat. and without insulting them or putting them down.

i have seen other documentary's with im in it and he just says it like it is. describing the arena as a boiling pot of tea. funny witty likeable.

but in this one he just didnt seem to gel with the interviewer.

"are you stupid? of course NOI had influence over him...."
"if you get girl problems...."
"frazier was dumb"

i think personally that the interviewer didnt know much about boxing or the life of ali and he is asking basic obvious questions. saying frazier is dumb was clearly a point to expand on...the guy he was talking to would of prolly just accpeted it. when he was with showtime (it think) he had cysz,tyson and gray to bounce off

[Smokin Destroyer]

Enjoyed this a lot. Nice to get things from a more pro Frazier perspective for once.

[Arka]

To get a flavour of the documentary,here is the director speaking about it.
(BTW no.I don't consider the Thrilla in Manila the greatest fight of all time,let alone the best fight of the trilogy)

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[groove]

when you think of the extreme conditions they were fighting in and the intensity at which they fought - it is one of the best ever. both men went close to death - not many heavyweight fights were that brutal. ali didn't look marked at the end but he took many great left hooks flush - boy could he take punches as did Frazier in that fight. Im glad it never went to the 15th. coulda been tragic for one. excellent doc :good

[Bigcat]

I was always lead to beleive that Butch Lewis's father was one of the Black Cloverlay backers of Joe.. I honestly didn't think he had anything to do with Fraziers camp himself.. Joes camp really comprosed of Yank Durham, Eddie Futch and Georgie Benton.. Futch really was a very young man back then, i think he made himself seem more involved than he was.. Butch had a lot more involvement with the Spinks brothers and Vaughn Bean..........

[OBCboxer]

Can I find this online to watch it again?

[Minotauro]

Excellent documentary it’s a shame Frazier has so much hate still for Ali but it is understandable, for you to help the guy with money and to get his licence back and then he consistently insults you. Pacheco is a wanker.

[Jack Dempsey]

Pacheco came across as a right cock.

Anyone know if Marvis's eyes looked like that before Holmes and Tyson got to him?

[mcvey]

Pacheco came across as a right cock.

Anyone know if Marvis's eyes looked like that before Holmes and Tyson got to him?
Marvis has allways had a slight cast in one eye,a limited fighter but a brave lad who was rushed by his Dad .

[Jack Dempsey]

Marvis has allways had a slight cast in one eye,a limited fighter but a brave lad who was rushed by his Dad .

Very true that.

I thought he came over very well, in fact all the parties on Joes side did.

Loved George Benton:good

[Bigcat]

George Benton has always been one of my favorites , as a trainer with Holyfield and working with the Duvas, he is a living legend, a great fighter in his time too, Philly fighters always get my greatest respect.........

[ChrisPontius]

Yes, too bad they didn't mention Benton being a pretty accomplished fighter and trainer himself. They introduced him asif he was some unknown person just happy to be at the right place at the right time.

I've always thought Pacheco was a grade A asshole and this shows it once again. What a prick.




p.s. was i the only one to really laugh when Holmes came crashing the scene with an irrelevant bit on how Ali was overrated and all that? The man can't go 5 minutes without talking someone down or saying how under appreciated he was! :lol:

[mcvey]

Yes, too bad they didn't mention Benton being a pretty accomplished fighter and trainer himself. They introduced him asif he was some unknown person just happy to be at the right place at the right time.

I've always thought Pacheco was a grade A asshole and this shows it once again. What a prick.




p.s. was i the only one to really laugh when Holmes came crashing the scene with an irrelevant bit on how Ali was overrated and all that? The man can't go 5 minutes without talking someone down or saying how under appreciated he was! :lol:
Great fighter Larry, but he should have a ventriloquist next to him so he could just mime,he puts his big foot in it every time.

[Robbi]

p.s. was i the only one to really laugh when Holmes came crashing the scene with an irrelevant bit on how Ali was overrated and all that? The man can't go 5 minutes without talking someone down or saying how under appreciated he was! :lol:

He's never had a good word to say about Lewis.

[Arka]

Yes, too bad they didn't mention Benton being a pretty accomplished fighter and trainer himself. They introduced him asif he was some unknown person just happy to be at the right place at the right time.

I've always thought Pacheco was a grade A asshole and this shows it once again. What a prick.



Wait a second.You're in Holland.
Do you have More4 with yout satellite package? :blood


p.s. was i the only one to really laugh when Holmes came crashing the scene with an irrelevant bit on how Ali was overrated and all that? The man can't go 5 minutes without talking someone down or saying how under appreciated he was! :lol:
I remember a half hour interview the BBC did with him.It was on Hard Talk on BBC News 24.It remember it ending like this

Larry-"...and you know George Foreman isn't a nice guy."
Interviewer-"Thankyou,Larry Holmes."

[My dinner with Conteh]

The should be a poll:
Biggest Wanker in Boxing History-
Ferdie Pacheco
Larry Holmes


Favourite Pacheco moment of wankdom (during one of the Ali-Norton snorefests) "Look at Ali's smothering, he's one of the best smotherers in the game".

[McGrain]

p.s. was i the only one to really laugh when Holmes came crashing the scene with an irrelevant bit on how Ali was overrated and all that?

:rofl :rofl

[ChrisPontius]

Wait a second.You're in Holland.
Do you have More4 with yout satellite package? :blood
I have my sources. :D

I remember a half hour interview the BBC did with him.It was on Hard Talk on BBC News 24.It remember it ending like this

Larry-"...and you know George Foreman isn't a nice guy."
Interviewer-"Thankyou,Larry Holmes."

:lol:

[Brummy1976]

Called him very dumb, and said the toy gorilla that Ali had for the Manila fight was ugly as hell ,and looked just like Frazier,now apart from the racial overtones ,and the fact that Fraziers face understandably has some wear and tear on it now he is 63 and had all those wars ,I thought he had a rather pleasant face when he was young ,it is unpalatable to hear a guy who had the advantages of a college education and the security of a profession for an occupation ,to be casting slurs on a blue collar guy who made his was through life putting his heart and soul on the line. Very good post mate !