Pernell Whitaker Highlight

[Bad_Intentions]

yjTHLPmfBCQ

10/10. perfect highlight :good

:rofl @ pernell making de la hoya look bad with his defensive movement

[jonesjrp4p1]

awesome highlights i think pbf does everything better but pernell had more power and was more offensive. Thats why a fight between these 2 would be hard to pick


your gonna catch some shit for that especially from the guy above you

[mightyd40]

your gonna catch some shit for that especially from the guy above you u warned him and u were exactly right haha.....though i do agree with pea 100%

[Shake]

Even at thirty, I find Pernell to be the man to Floyd's boy. For all the elusiveness and technical prowess of the two, I believe Pernell would beat him mentally.

I'll note that regardless of the above I find Whitaker to be the more impressive fighter even when disregarding character. He punched in combinations, worked the body consistently, was more busy, more relaxed and sat on his punches more.

[TheGreatest-915]

wow great highlight

[jonesjrp4p1]

:good he had 4 losses 1 draw and tested positive to cocaine and lost to jose ramirez in 88 floyd has never lost. There is no way that he looked better in the ring, floyd is faster you can't dispute that.He has not lost and he will not lose either i reakon most people would say that floyd wins better all round skills his legacy will be better.

its not all about the losses on the record look at their resumes.....pernell was better

[jonesjrp4p1]

:lol: Ok there chief, learn your stuff by what you see, not what you read on boxrec.

He had 3 of his losses when he was way past his prime, one of them due to pulling his shoulder and the ref stopping the fight, not anything to do with his opponent. The other was what many consider a robbery to an in his prime DLH when Pea was past his prime. Once again, I and many other consider that a robbery.

As for the Ramirez loss, it is widely accepted as one of THE biggest robberies in the sport's history. It was a damn near shutout for Pea, he dominated Ramirez, the decision was comical, ask ANYONE on this site. Also, Ramirez was a fighter at least as good if not better than Castillo who many believe Floyd lost to in their first fight. Floyd also dominated and shut him out in the rematch, something Floyd could not come close to doing to Castillo, who Ramirez was better than.

Also comes the fact that he had a better wins resume than PBF as I've said, he beat better fighters, and he looked better on film IN HIS PRIME, not way past his prime like in his fights against DLH and Tito.

In his prime, like that vid shows, he was clearly the superior fighter to someone like Mayweather, and would beat him head to head.

What the hell do you mean Floyd is faster, it's not debatable? It certainly is debatable. Floyd is more explosive as of one shot because he is more explosive, but Pea was much smoother and had the superior defense. Then comes the fact that he threw combos and stood in front of you to outbox you, while Floyd pot-shots and moves around.

So in closing, yeah I think you and Bigtime9 are among the few that think Floyd is better than Pea.


haha i knew you would go crazy on him haha........id still love to see them fight though.....sweet pea ud pretty boy

[JohnThomas1]

:good he had 4 losses 1 draw and tested positive to cocaine and lost to jose ramirez in 88

Well we definitely know somebody hasn't seen the fight

:yep

[jyuza]

Great vid indeed. I dowloaded the AVI version (90Mb), which is in better quality and you can fully apreciate the famous part of the DLH fight where Pea make Oscar miss all of his 7 or 8 punches combos.

[sweet_scientist]

My favourite Pea dodging sequence is the one shown from an alternative angle from the one showed by the HBO coverage in the DLH-Pea interview done one week after the fight. It was the sequence at the end of round 10. Look at how Whitaker contorts his body to evade everything DLH threw. :shock: The look on DLH's face after they show him the footage is priceless too!

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[META5]

Great vid indeed. I dowloaded the AVI version (90Mb), which is in better quality and you can fully apreciate the famous part of the DLH fight where Pea make Oscar miss all of his 7 or 8 punches combos.

What's funny is to see Oscar's fake celebrtation ... he knew very well that he didn't find the mark with those punches, you can see it in that desperate arm flick at the end of the combination. Pea's defence was out of this world great ...

As to the argument between himself and PBF, I am a BIG fan of both of them. PBF is in Pea's realm talent wise, as to career and fight résumé, Floyd could only wish that he dominated fighters like Pea did, facing the calibre of fighters that Pea did, fighting right in front of them like Pea did. Floyd is, in my mind, undoubtedly great, Pernell is, however, that much better, that much more accomplished, that much more of a warrior, even if one chooses to argue that Floyd is slightly more technically refined.

[sweet_scientist]

What's funny is to see Oscar's fake celebrtation ... he knew very well that he didn't find the mark with those punches, you can see it in that desperate arm flick at the end of the combination. Pea's defence was out of this world great ...

As to the argument between himself and PBF, I am BIG fans of both of them. PBF is in Pea's realm talent wise, as to career and fight résumé, Floyd could only wish that he dominated fighters like Pea did, facing the calibre of fighters that Pea did, fighting right in front of them like Pea did. Floyd is, in my mind, undoubtedly great, Pernell is, however, that much better, that much more accomplished, that much more of a warrior, even if one chooses to argue that Floyd is slightly more technically refined.

Nice words Meta:thumbsup

When all is said and done I don't think there'll be a large chasm between Pea and PBF, but I don't think PBF will ever rank as his equal.

[META5]

Nice words Meta:thumbsup

When all is said and done I don't think there'll be a large chasm between Pea and PBF, but I don't think PBF will ever rank as his equal.

No ... he never will, IMO.

PBF has Castillo, Pea has Chavez ... that pretty much sums it up for me.

[sweet_scientist]

I can see PBF beating guys like Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, and Williams, but I doubt he gets the time to beat them all, especially being as he continues to age and perhaps picks up a loss. If he does beat all of them, maybe he surpasses Pea on resume, depending on what state they are in, but PBF will never rank above him head to head for me. Pea just had the style to always beat him.
Yeah, head to head you can pretty much call right now, irrespective of what Floyd goes on to do (he isn't going to get any better).

To me, guys like Hatton, Cotto, Mosley etc might be good wins, and I would favour PBF to beat them all, but even if he did, would that count more than a clear victory over Chavez and a fight that could have gone either way with a prime DLH (when Pea was himself on the slide)? I don't think so.

I just dont think Cotto or Hatton are THAT good. (And Mosley, depsite having a good showing against Colazo, is not anywhere near his prime). But that will be settled in time.

[JohnThomas1]

Good to see you posting Meta

Has anyone ever had better defense than the Pea? I'm not so sure. I used to rate Benitez the best i'd seen but Pea almost rivals him for slipping while parrying more often and efficiently. Benitez was almost all head movement where Whitaker is totally adept at both, brilliant really.

[META5]

Good to see you posting Meta

Has anyone ever had better defense than the Pea? I'm not so sure. I used to rate Benitez the best i'd seen but Pea almost rivals him for slipping while parrying more often and efficiently. Benitez was almost all head movement where Whitaker is totally adept at both, brilliant really.

I think when we talk about defensive fighters, the triangle of brilliance really lies with Pep, Pea and Benitez ... some would add Locche and Loi to the mix, Zapata for Mantequilla ... there is a very small band of the topmost elite defensive masters ... Pea definitely sings lead vocals on some of that band's biggest hits.

[Shake]

No ... he never will, IMO.

PBF has Castillo, Pea has Chavez ... that pretty much sums it up for me.

This is a short but endlessly powerful point. Impressive, sir. :thumbsup

[JohnThomas1]

I think when we talk about defensive fighters, the triangle of brilliance really lies with Pep, Pea and Benitez ... some would add Locche and Loi to the mix, Zapata for Mantequilla ... there is a very small band of the topmost elite defensive masters ... Pea definitely sings lead vocals on some of that band's biggest hits.

Fine mentions, i think peak RJJ belongs there too, he was close to untouchable for periods while still winning lopsided decisions.

[META5]

Fine mentions, i think peak RJJ belongs there too, he was close to untouchable for periods while still winning lopsided decisions.

I would mention him too and some would mention prime Ali and prime Tyson ... problem with RJJ and Ali is that you stir up emotions about technicians and conventional defences and unconventional defences. Someone like Pea mixed up his unconventional defence with absolutely sound defensive technique ... someone like Ali mixed up his unconventional defence with competently sound defensive technique, but the manner of his style obscures many observers' ability to see this.

Ultimately, defence boils down to how effective its user was in hitting and not getting hit ... and how did they do it.

[sweet_scientist]

In terms of all time defense I'd say the top 10 would be (in no order):

Nicolino Locche
Willie Pep
Wilfred Benitez
Young Griffo
Pernell Whitaker
Miguel Canto
Muhammad Ali
Floyd Mayweather
Jim Driscoll
Benny Leonard

[sweet_scientist]

About Roy's defense, I'll say this: you can't argue with his numbers. Looking at some of the punchstats and his opponents connect rate, he was a ghost in there.

But there are a couple of questions raised with these numbers.

One, is how good were the opponents he was facing that were unable to touch him? Some were good, some were bad and some were ugly. Sure, everyone had that, but Roy did fight a lot of trash.

And another question is how much was his untouchability the product of his own offense rather than his defense? In many Roy fights the other guy would become completely gun shy after trying to mix it up early and getting stung repeatedly. They eventually became weary of what was coming back and stopped attack with full verve.

What makes the defense of guys like Pep, Pea and Nico so great was that they never really had the pop to make guys gunshy. They'd continue to swing and swing at them, and continue to miss and miss.

[Shake]

*spits out drink*

[Vantage_West]

awesome highlights i think pbf does everything better but pernell had more power and was more offensive. Thats why a fight between these 2 would be hard to pick:think have you got the right guy

he had power in the higher wiehgts but at the others..nah he was all slickness speed and 100 punches a round

[Pat_Lowe]

Good to see you posting Meta

Has anyone ever had better defense than the Pea? I'm not so sure. I used to rate Benitez the best i'd seen but Pea almost rivals him for slipping while parrying more often and efficiently. Benitez was almost all head movement where Whitaker is totally adept at both, brilliant really.

I rate Benitez the highest with Whitaker not very far behind. The difference for me is that Benitez was slipping Leonard and Hearns punches perfectly. Whitaker doesn't have anyone in that league of speed.

[sweet_scientist]

I rate Benitez the highest with Whitaker not very far behind. The difference for me is that Benitez was slipping Leonard and Hearns punches perfectly. Whitaker doesn't have anyone in that league of speed.
He was? Could have sworn both clearly outboxed him.

And when you consider how cautious and inactive he was in both fights, with what looked as if avoiding punches was his top (and at times only) priority, I don't think you can give him the edge over Whitaker off of those performances, even though Leonard and Hearns were both quicker than anyone Whitaker faced.

[Pat_Lowe]

He was? Could have sworn both clearly outboxed him.

And when you consider how cautious and inactive he was in both fights, with what looked as if avoiding punches was his top (and at times only) priority, I don't think you can give him the edge over Whitaker off of those performances, even though Leonard and Hearns were both quicker than anyone Whitaker faced.

He was beaten in both fights yes, but he still managed to avoid the majortiy of their punches. You got to give credit to his opposition that caused him to be rendered ineffective. I just figure that slipping Leonard, one of the fastest and best combination punchers ever and slipping Hearns another one the fastest punchers ever rates very highly. I didn't take into account countering or offence or whether or not it was his only priority, just that he was dodging them, Whitaker never did it against someone of that level of speed

[sweet_scientist]

He was beaten in both fights yes, but he still managed to avoid the majortiy of their punches. You got to give credit to his opposition that caused him to be rendered ineffective. I just figure that slipping Leonard, one of the fastest and best combination punchers ever and slipping Hearns another one the fastest punchers ever rates very highly. I didn't take into account countering or offence or whether or not it was his only priority, just that he was dodging them, Whitaker never did it against someone of that level of speed

I hear ya.

[JohnThomas1]

He was? Could have sworn both clearly outboxed him.

And when you consider how cautious and inactive he was in both fights, with what looked as if avoiding punches was his top (and at times only) priority, I don't think you can give him the edge over Whitaker off of those performances, even though Leonard and Hearns were both quicker than anyone Whitaker faced.

Sorry Pat but i have to go with this. One could only imagine the elusiveness of Whitaker if he shut up shop a bit more and concentrated more on defence. The guy maintained his enviable defensive prowess while also having excellent punch output.

[Mantequilla]

Benitez took loads of risks in almost all of his fights looking for the difficult slip and counter.

He wasn't a volume jabber like Whitaker and threw less punches anyway.the ones he did go for generally put him at a lot more risk of being countered.

[sweet_scientist]

Benitez took loads of risks in almost all of his fights looking for the difficult slip and counter.

He wasn't a volume jabber like Whitaker and threw less punches anyway.the ones he did go for generally put him at a lot more risk of being countered.

How many risks did he take against Leonard and Hearns?

Did he make an attempt to win the fights or just to somewhat compete?

Sure Hearns and Leonard MADE him fight at certain points, but how many risks did he take?

Not that many imo.

[Mantequilla]

Well i don't disagree he was a bit half-assed for much of the fight against Hearns.

Against Leonard he was right there in front of him looking for counters all night and he went all out in the last round.

He never looked to just focus on defence in that fight, unlike Hearns and fought with purpose.

[sweet_scientist]

Well i don't disagree he was a bit half-assed for much of the fight against Hearns.

Against Leonard he was right there in front of him looking for counters all night and he went all out in the last round.

He never looked to just focus on defence in that fight, unlike Hearns and fought with purpose.
The Leonard fight featured both guys standing a metre from each other and trying to outdo the other in a combination of speed (when throwing) and reflexes (when dodging). Leonard for the most part showed that his combination of speed and reflexes were a little better. But up until the very end, where he opened up and got tagged, Benitez never tried to push the fight. He was content to prod and dodge and come off second best.

Pernell may not have faired any better, but one thing is for sure, he would be on the inside throwing body punches and mixing it up, not staying at a distance where he could play a game of fistic SNAP.

I'm not trying to say that Pernell was superior, I'm just saying the argument being used (about how Benitez dodged Ray's and Hearn's shots) isn't a good argument for why Benitez was better than Pernell.

I'll say this about Benitez though, he was less reliant on his legs than Whitaker was, and pretty much lived off subtle shifts of the head. In that respect he was master over Pernell and everyone else in terms of defense.

[Sizzle]

Whitaker had the better artistic defense - A "natural" defensive genius. At mid-range, there has never been a better defensive artist, as Zab Judah says he would stand infront of you and make you miss ten punches.

Mayweather is the better textbook defensive artist - He's been manufactured to master the defensive art from every angle - Blocking, evading, and of course, staying out of range. His footwork enables him to do to this.
(i.e., not just stay out of range but get into range quickly when the time is right)

Overall, I would say Whitaker has the prettier defense, as does Pep, but at the end of the day, in terms of avoiding clean punches, I give the edge to Mayweather - I've seen most of his fights and still couldn't tell you how good his chin is!