How do you rank Arthur Abraham in the Middleweight division??

[Grabonator]

Abraham is a verry strong puncher at the middleweight division and a verry verry tough guy, fought manny rounds with an serious jaw injury against Miranda and still won it, yes it was close but he won it. I think if not the injury he would have beaten miranda, maybe by KO. Abraham has a also a verry good defense. I think he would beat Tailor. Abraham and the winner of Taylor and Pavlick are the two best fighters at 160.
Im shure we will see great things from abraham in the future. he stopped Howard eastman and Kingsley Ikeke and manny of his opponents say they never fought such an powerfull guy like Abraham before.

[sean]

he is number 2 behind taylor .

just correct yourself a little he never stopped eastman.

a legit threat to anyone at 160 and IMO he would beat taylor but taylor deserves numvber 1 spot by dint of beating hopkins twice.

pavlik v abraham would be great stuff.

abraham is effective , if a little stiff and awkward looking, but he does have the tools wheter it be power or boxing to get the job done v a mix of styles.

watched him climb the rankings and he was never moddlecoddled but given tough opponents and proved he is a tough /strong./hardman with not a little skill as well.

trys to walk through boxers and trys to outbox sluggers.

so far he has managed both.

[Tom_Tocca]

he didn't stop Eastman - I rank him 2nd after the winner of Taylor - Pavlik

[heerko koois]

Number uno.....great boxer/ puncher ...let him fight Taylor..

[El Bombasto]

top 5

[Tom_Tocca]

he is number 2 behind taylor .

just correct yourself a little he never stopped eastman.

a legit threat to anyone at 160 and IMO he would beat taylor but taylor deserves numvber 1 spot by dint of beating hopkins twice.

pavlik v abraham would be great stuff.

abraham is effective , if a little stiff and awkward looking, but he does have the tools wheter it be power or boxing to get the job done v a mix of styles.

watched him climb the rankings and he was never moddlecoddled but given tough opponents and proved he is a tough /strong./hardman with not a little skill as well.

trys to walk through boxers and trys to outbox sluggers.

so far he has managed both.

Huck seems to be the same as Abraham...

[the_what]

Inactivity is costing him. He had momentum after the Miranda fight but took a long time off. I know he needed time to heal but still. I doubt he will ever fight out of Germany. So I dont see him getting any better unless he decides to step to the plate and fight someone like Taylor or Pavlik.

[Tom_Tocca]

Inactivity is costing him. He had momentum after the Miranda fight but took a long time off. I know he needed time to heal but still. I doubt he will ever fight out of Germany. So I dont see him getting any better unless he decides to step to the plate and fight someone like Taylor or Pavlik.
He simply must come to America because there aren't that uch oppertunities left (Sturm wants to go to the US and ignores AA).
Pavlik/Wright vs. Abraham would be top-notch...

[startown81]

Abraham is a verry strong puncher at the middleweight division and a verry verry tough guy, fought manny rounds with an serious jaw injury against Miranda and still won it, yes it was close but he won it. I think if not the injury he would have beaten miranda, maybe by KO. Abraham has a also a verry good defense. I think he would beat Tailor. Abraham and the winner of Taylor and Pavlick are the two best fighters at 160.
Im shure we will see great things from abraham in the future. he stopped Howard eastman and Kingsley Ikeke and manny of his opponents say they never fought such an powerfull guy like Abraham before.
i rate him 2 or 3 but i think he lost that miranda fight. that was one of the most disgraceful robberies ive ever seen.

[Tom_Tocca]

top five...

But he's never beat a top guy in dominant fashion and/or fought outside of Germany to my knowledge.
Ikeke was considered top5 when he TKOed him back in 2005. The fight vs. Eastman was just 7-5 rounds, so you are right on this one...

[IntentionalButt]

have very little to base a firsthand opinion on, outside the miranda fight and some other assorted clips. let him fight the taylor-pavlik winner and i'll feel better about pegging him with conviction.

[Tom_Tocca]

But more talented imo.

Right now he´s number three behind Taylor and Winky. But there are 4 guys at mw i would make a favourite against him. Taylor, Winky and Sturm would outbox him and Pavlik would outwork him.
His flaws are his wide punches which you can easily see and evade, he seems to work on that one, he has a stamina issue and he fights in spurts, so he can be outworked - that´s why i give Ghevor a good shot at beating him.
AA will KO Gevor inside 8 rounds and Sturm is gunshy and would be KOed as well...

[TheGreat]

he is number 2 behind taylor .

just correct yourself a little he never stopped eastman.

a legit threat to anyone at 160 and IMO he would beat taylor but taylor deserves numvber 1 spot by dint of beating hopkins twice.

pavlik v abraham would be great stuff.

abraham is effective , if a little stiff and awkward looking, but he does have the tools wheter it be power or boxing to get the job done v a mix of styles.

watched him climb the rankings and he was never moddlecoddled but given tough opponents and proved he is a tough /strong./hardman with not a little skill as well.

trys to walk through boxers and trys to outbox sluggers.

so far he has managed both.

Mr Hype Miranda kicked his ass but was robbed no way in hell he beats Taylor.

[Jose FM]

have very little to base a firsthand opinion on, outside the miranda fight and some other assorted clips. let him fight the taylor-pavlik winner and i'll feel better about pegging him with conviction.
:good

[startown81]

Watch the fight and not the Miranda-team highlights. He won the first 5 rounds and then the 9th, together with the point deductions it was a close but clear victory.
Its been a while since ive seen the fight but their is no way he won the first 5 rounds. The first 2 definitley maybe the third. And some of those point deductions was ridiculas. The ref saved his ass.

[sean]

taylor IMO will not get past pavlik so that matchup might be irrelevent in the short term.

[Tom_Tocca]

taylor IMO will not get past pavlik so that matchup might be irrelevent in the short term.
Doesn't matter because Taylor will move up to SMW no matter what...

[startown81]

Well the point deduction for the headbutt would be enough for him to win anyway. Miranda should have be dqed anyway, hitting low was part of his gameplan, the ref didn´t even warn him for everyone.
Miranda should have been dqued? Huh? The fight should have been stoped. Abraham did not want to continue after his jaw broke but his corner threw him in their anyway. I had Miranda up big Abraham was running for dear life half of the fight. No shame to abraham. Hes a tough son of a bitch but he lost that fight.

[IntentionalButt]

Doesn't matter because Taylor will move up to SMW no matter what...

Only to get swatted like a fly. :deal

[Grabonator]

But more talented imo.

Right now he´s number three behind Taylor and Winky. But there are 4 guys at mw i would make a favourite against him. Taylor, Winky and Sturm would outbox him and Pavlik would outwork him.
His flaws are his wide punches which you can easily see and evade, he seems to work on that one, he has a stamina issue and he fights in spurts, so he can be outworked - that´s why i give Ghevor a good shot at beating him.

You think Sturm could beat Abraham?? Are you kidding!!?? Sturm would get his ass kicked! He would not be able to deal with Abrahams power. Thats why Sturm never would get in the ring with Abraham!

[Tom_Tocca]

Only to get swatted like a fly. :deal
I totally agree with you :good

[Grabonator]

Mr Hype Miranda kicked his ass but was robbed no way in hell he beats Taylor.

I guess you dont have seen the fight or you have not read my post, Abraham was serious injured against Miranda and lost tons of blood in the fight!! That was unreal!!

[CASH_718]

1. Taylor
2. Winky
3. Abraham

[Grabonator]

Take away your bias and be more objective.

I watch all Sturm fights recently, as well and Abraham fights. Sturm is feather fisted and has problems against punchers and he only fights overmatched bums and cant even stop them and get hit by them, if he get hit by Abraham he gets KOed. Castillejo who is hardly a Top10 guy at middleweight knocked Sturm out and there are manny boxers at middleweight better than Castillejo, Abraham is one of them. Abraham would walk over Sturm since he has not to worry about Sturms featherfisted punches. Sturm has a good defense but Abraham can also go to the body where Sturm is hittable as you see in his last fight against a mediciore opponent. But Abraham would be the most powerfull guy Stum ever fought and Sturm would not be able to handle Abraham whos not just a good puncher. There was a time i was a fan of Sturm, especially after the fight against De La Hoya, but i realized that he cant handle the Topdogs at 160 that are physically bigger than him. oscar who fought Sturm was fat and out of shaoe and doesnt belong to 160 anyway. Abraham, Taylor, Pavlick and Miranda would all stop Sturm and maybe others as well.

[Grabonator]

. And a boxer beats a puncher. .

Man i hate this sentence!! Its not true anyway!! A good boxer wins against an not so good puncher, but a good puncher wins against a not so good boxer as well. The important thing is you have to be good in what you do and you have the right gameplan. And i doubt Sturm could run away all night without getting hit.There are manny styles and you cant just say a boxer beats a puncher. I think you are underrating Abrahams boxing abilities and his talent. I know that Sturm is a talented boxer but he has flaws, he has not the chin and not the punch to compete with strong middleweights. And sometimes he always likes to trade a bit and stands toe to toe and that would be his downfall against Abraham. He did not impress me at all in his last fight when he had a verry hard time with Alcoba. And Alcoba whos not good at all landed more shots than you would expect. If he would have power, Alcoba would have knocked Sturm out.

[Stinky gloves]

he didn't stop Eastman - I rank him 2nd after the winner of Taylor - Pavlik

Hopkins didn't stop Eastman either and he was #1, so stopping Eastman is somethings to think about?

[Brickhaus]

Clear #2. The only way Miranda beat Abraham in that fight is if you think the ref should have called it a KO after he broke his jaw.

[Tom_Tocca]

Hopkins didn't stop Eastman either and he was #1, so stopping Eastman is somethings to think about?
That's not the story I'm talking about but the fact that the starter of this thread said that AA stopped Eastman...

[brooklyn1550]

He's top 3 - behind Taylor and Wright

[Tom_Tocca]

Would it be possible that Wright fights AA next after Abraham beats his mandatory?

[marauder1999]

Well--Mr. hyped miranda hurt him but Pavlik beat the shit out of miranda---I dont see how on earth you feel that abraham is #2 behind taylor. JMo

[Grabonator]

That's not the story I'm talking about but the fact that the starter of this thread said that AA stopped Eastman...

Yes, that was a fault, sorry. Now i remember. But eastman was hurt severall times in that fight and to stop Eastman is a difficult thing to do. Eastman BTW was a strong opponent, a good boxer with a good punch and Ikeke also was considered as an good boxer but Abraham handled him with ease and stopped him. I wonder what Sturm would look like when he fights Ikeke or Eastman. But he doesnt need to fight them anymore cause they are not as good as they were when Abraham fought them.

[Tom_Tocca]

Winky wants big money fights and a fight with abraham wouldn´t be as much money as one against Oscar, a Taylor re-match, possibly at smw, or a match with the JC-MK winner.
Winky said after the Hopkins fight that he don't want to fight above 160 again but fight at that weight or below...So who else is he going to fight - I only see Mora as a fighter who could draw enough money for Winky because Pavlik would have to fight Taylor at 168 in a rematch if he wins...

[Grabonator]

He will never make the mistake to trade with a superior puncher again. He learned. Basically that phrase is right. It shows that Sturm has a style advantage over Abraham. Sturm also showed that he can stick to a game-plan a whole fight and his trainer is good enough to create a tactic to beat Abraham. You don´t need an iron chin or a foreman-like punch to be competative with the top-guys if you have other tools that make up for it. Numerous boxers proved that already. Sturm doen´t need to run all night. Abraham fights in spurts he only must run then, the rest the time he can move in and out shooting that jab.
btw. i´m not a fan of either one, the only "German" i´m interested in is Marco Huck - sad that he is as intelligent as potatoe and too dirty, he has so much talent. I look forward to Andy Lee who would beat both in 2 years.

Huck is verry good, thats right but i dont think hes more promising than Abraham.

[marauder1999]

When did Miranda hurt Abraham? It was the other way round. btw. when you´re saying Miranda was just hyped what does this say about Pavlik?

Are u kidding? Miranda was the talk of the hype train when he was going to fight pavlik. Pavlik pummeled his hyped ass. Period.

[Grabonator]

Are u kidding? Miranda was the talk of the hype train when he was going to fight pavlik. Pavlik pummeled his hyped ass. Period.

Miranda is still not bad! Lets see what he does in his next fight! I had the feeling that Miranda was verry weak and tired when he fought Pavlick, i guess something was wrong with him, there where not much power behind his shots in this fight. But Pavlick is verry good and propaby always would beat Miranda, i pick him to beat Taylor as well.

[EpsilonAxis]

He's the #1 contender to Taylor's crown.

[marauder1999]

Well, what says is about Pavlik when Miranda was only hyped? Answer me that question.

I guess it would just show that pavlik actually has fans who enjoy his style boxing and like to watch him fight vs. miranda who had nuthuggers attached to his pubic hair.

[marauder1999]

You didn´t answer my question. I do it for you, okay? If Miranda was just hyped like you said than beating him wouldn´t give Pavlik any credit. So you guys should learn to give the opponents of your fighters some credit or your fighter won´t get any himself.

Very true!:good But I dont think pavlik is going to beat Taylor because of how he beat hyoed miranda

I believe he will win based on how he fights. Beating the overhyped miranda is just that--beating an overhyped miranda, it really has no basis of why i feel he is the legit #2 right now and after sept 29 he will be the champ.

[startown81]

When did Miranda hurt Abraham? It was the other way round. btw. when you´re saying Miranda was just hyped what does this say about Pavlik?
Hahahahahaha. What? When did Miranda hurt Abraham? I think it was about the third or 4th round when Abraham didnt want to continue. Not to mention Miranda was back in the ring months after the fight Abraham had to wait about a year to fight again. Miranda was hurt? Yea im the ignorant one. Wow you must be as lost as the ref in that fight.

[psychopath]

How do you rank Arthur Abraham in the Middleweight division??

At the moment . . .

1. Taylor
2. Pavlik
3. Abraham :yep :good

[Jinx]

Abraham would definitely lose to Taylor, but he might beat Pavlik...he would be a hard style for Winky, if he puts pressure on Winky...he beats Miranda in a rematch, but he shouldn't have won the 1st...i see Abraham as #3 behind Taylor and Wright, and Pavlik is #4...

[Stinky gloves]

That's not the story I'm talking about but the fact that
the starter of this thread said that AA stopped Eastman...

Sorry, full respect for you.

[Axe]

He is a good puncher but would lose to Taylor, Pavlik, and Wright (who knows where Winky will fight next..).

A Miranda rematch would be 50/50 as well.

[Tom_Tocca]

I see Taylor beating Pavlik, Pavlik beating Abraham, Abraham beating Taylor... styles make fights.

[Tom_Tocca]

Hm, how do you think a fight between Abraham and Taylor would look like? On Pavlik we agree with the outworking thing but Taylor is a bit different. He knows how to box and move and Abraham is a bit lazy on his feet. Imo a good boxer like Taylor, Winky, Sturm outboxes him. Abraham is good though and a real fighter, i hope he works on his stamina, footwork and gets rid of his habits fighting in spurts and throwing these looping, wide punches. These 4 mistakes would cost him in his biggest fights imo.
His next bout should tell us something since Ghevor has a bit similar to Pavlik in that he has a good workrate and likes to slug it out, don´t know much about his chin though.
His chin is ok, but he is just to small vs. Abraham and don't hit that hard. Btw, Abraham cut the ring well vs Demers and only took off 2 weeks after the fight and immidiatly started training camp for his next fight. As long as he's fighting relaxed he should have no problem - he's also a good counter-puncher and wouldn't be imposed by Taylor's physique...

[Tom_Tocca]

Well, i suppose you agree with me that Demers isn´t on the level of Taylor, he´s much easier to figure out so cutting of the ring against him is much easier. Yeah, Abraham is a good counter-puncher but it isn´t like Taylor would be that aggressiv against him. Don´t get me wrong, out of Taylor, Sturm Pavlik i give Abraham the best chance against Taylor. Pavlik would take everything Abraham has to offer and outwork him and Sturm would just run with Abraham losing the fight because of his faults more than sturm winning. Taylor would at times stand in there with Abraham that could cost him, remember he was hurt against Hopkins, but he has also a good defence and with stewart in his corner very good advise and surely a very good gameplan.
has he ever stick to a gameplan under Manny's tutelage, I don't think so...

[Grabonator]

I dont like Taylor as a person, i can explain why but i just dont like him.
And i think trainers have a hard time with him because he isnt doing in the ring what hes supposed to do. Sometimes i think hes an stupid person.

[T.C.W]

number 3

[*BOX_FAN*]

Number 4 or 5 :huh

[ron u.k.]

i still have images of abraham being negative and not wanting to mix it with a very mediocre eastman.still thought he lost.

[chliJs]

2-5

but head to head he's gonna beat them all.. except for maybe wright, if you count him in.

[Asterion]

Champ: Jermain Taylor

1. Winky Wright
2. Arthur Abraham
3. Kelly Pavlik