DeLaHoya has not won a significant fight yet

[Bazooka]

I am serious when I say this after looking at his entire career Oscar has yet to win a fight that means something, yet in doing as much the people still pay to see him fight and they pay a ton of money I wonder why?
To answer this you have to look at the way Oscar does perform like it or not he does make exciting fights for the fans and fights all the big names in the sport, which is exactly why he makes the kind of money he makes.
However when you look at his career all the big fights he took he lost, Trinidad, Mosley, Hopkins and Mayweather.
Sure he has great wins over Quartey Vargas Chavez But the fights that really mattered he fell short, yet the haters will open up and talk shit here but facts are facts DLH must be doing something right when he fights becuase un like guys like Mayweather Jr Hopkins who are P4P fighters and the best at what they do, They still do not bring in the money that DLH does, and the reason is simple, nobody wants to see Hopkins butt his way and hold and hit his way to a win and nobody wants to see Floyd play highspeed tag when he fights.

[cpnasty]

I'll admit that he has not beaten an ATG while that opponent was in his prime nor did he win against some of them in a legit manner. But, his win against Vargas was rather impressive.

[Brickhaus]

So was Chavez I. Also, while he won 2 fights he should have lost, he also lost 2 fights he should have won. I could give a rats ass about DLH, but he's earned what he's gotten.

[Fab2333]

I am serious when I say this after looking at his entire career Oscar has yet to win a fight that means something, yet in doing as much the people still pay to see him fight and they pay a ton of money I wonder why?
To answer this you have to look at the way Oscar does perform like it or not he does make exciting fights for the fans and fights all the big names in the sport, which is exactly why he makes the kind of money he makes.
However when you look at his career all the big fights he took he lost, Trinidad, Mosley, Hopkins and Mayweather.
Sure he has great wins over Quartey Vargas Chavez But the fights that really mattered he fell short, yet the haters will open up and talk shit here but facts are facts DLH must be doing something right when he fights becuase un like guys like Mayweather Jr Hopkins who are P4P fighters and the best at what they do, They still do not bring in the money that DLH does, and the reason is simple, nobody wants to see Hopkins butt his way and hold and hit his way to a win and nobody wants to see Floyd play highspeed tag when he fights.

:thumbsup

[Thread Stealer]

Oscar has had his share of wins over solid fighters, as well as his share of dull or medicore big fights.

[Bazooka]

Everything that you all are saying is true, and it has hit me last night dont ask me why it took so long to notice some of those losses really could have easily been wins ie, Trinidad, Mosley 2, then again you also have some wins that could easily be losses ie, Sturm Quartey and Whitaker.
but for a man who barely wins and barely losses one thing you can not say about him, you cant say that the fans dont like him that isnt true, you dont make that kind of money in boxing if your style of fighting is not entertaining.
De La Hoya is and has been good for boxing and he is one of the biggest reasons today if not the biggest reason today that fighters get paid the way they do.

[41fever]

he'd been competitive with his top fights

[Bazooka]

he'd been competitive with his top fights

This is true and nobody can say other wise, but honestly this is the real reason Oscar is still fighting today, he needs that BIG win before he goes out.

[SweetScienceFan]

You must have missed quite a bit of his career.

[Jose FM]

Chavez 2x, Whitaker, that 3 ATG victories. Quartey, Vargas, G. Hernandez, Sturm & Castillejo all very solid fighters he beat. Honorable mention would be Gatti. Btw, i noticed you put Mayweather up there, who has he beat that compares to Oscars record? As a matter of fact with probably the exception of Hopkins, who have all the others beat that compare to Oscars?

[Brickhaus]

This is true and nobody can say other wise, but honestly this is the real reason Oscar is still fighting today, he needs that BIG win before he goes out.

He ain't gonna get that BIG win at this point in his career. He's just not a P4P fighter anymore, and unless he gets some love from the judges, he ain't beating any of the top 5 welters...

[SweetScienceFan]

Chavez 2x, Whitaker, that 3 ATG victories. Quartey, Vargas, G. Hernandez, Sturm & Castillejo all very solid fighters he beat. Honorable mention would be Gatti.
Rafael Ruelas, Jesse James Leija, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Obe Carr, Ricardo Mayorga, John John Molina, Jorge Paez, Hector Camacho, and so forth. As well as the fact that most people agree that DLH beat Tito rather easily and Mosley the second time they fought. I also believe that he won his fight against Mayweather. However, even counting those as defeats, it doesn't take away from his great wins.

[Brickhaus]

I also believe that he won his fight against Mayweather.

Because you're blind. Tito and Mosley, sure, but if you had DLH beating PBF, then you have no clue how to score.

[Jose FM]

Rafael Ruelas, Jesse James Leija, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Obe Carr, Ricardo Mayorga, John John Molina, Jorge Paez, Hector Camacho, and so forth. As well as the fact that most people agree that DLH beat Tito rather easily and Mosley the second time they fought. I also believe that he won his fight against Mayweather. However, even counting those as defeats, it doesn't take away from his great wins.
Heh, absolutely. I agree 100%. I also had him beating Mayweather. I thought he lost 2 fights, thats Mosley 1, and obviously BHop, but i had him beating Bhop going to the 9th. I dunno what this clown and obvious DLH hater is talking about.:huh

[Jose FM]

He ain't gonna get that BIG win at this point in his career. He's just not a P4P fighter anymore, and unless he gets some love from the judges, he ain't beating any of the top 5 welters...
Ha, yeah ok...:lol:

[Jose FM]

Mayweather has G. Hernandez and Gatti also. And he's got Castillo and Corrales two men that are sure to go down as greats. And we can mention Jesus Chavez, Zab (who's the welterweight Vargas), and Oscar himself.
First of all, none of those guys compare to even Quartey...Second, Chavez and Whitaker are some of the best fighters in history. And DLH stopped Chavez 2x no man ever did that, and he was the first to beat Whitaker, and seriously has been fighting really solid fighters since like '95. Mayweathers still cherrypicking, so when he decides to man-up and take on the best comp avaliable then they can both be in the same discussion, in the meantime, Mayweather is nowhere near DLH. And remember Mayweather got DLH left overs like 4 years later.

[SweetScienceFan]

Because you're blind. Tito and Mosley, sure, but if you had DLH beating PBF, then you have no clue how to score.
Or maybe you gave Floyd rounds for feather dusting Oscar's gloves?

[Brickhaus]

Heh, absolutely. I agree 100%. I also had him beating Mayweather. I thought he lost 2 fights, thats Mosley 1, and obviously BHop, but i had him beating Bhop going to the 9th. I dunno what this clown and obvious DLH hater is talking about.:huh
I didn't realize that hitting gloves and shoulders was the way to win a fight :patsch

Seriously, DLH just isn't what he once was anymore.

How would he do against the top 5 welster?

PBF - Already lost by a clear 8-4 score, and it probably would have been wider if Mayweather was the type to try blowing a guy out, but he took rounds off.

Mosley - Already clearly beat DLH once, and had another close fight. DLH has regressed more than Mosley has at this point in their respective careers, and Mosley would have a distinct speed advantage.

Williams - Yeah right DLH can keep up with a guy who throws 100 punches a round.

Margarito - Would be a relatively even fight, but I'd give Margo a 60/40 chance of winning with unbiased judges. He punches harder than DLH and has most other physical advantages. DLH has speed on him, but he also can't sustain a high workrate anymore. Margo would have a good chance at hurting DLH. Still, if they fought, DLH would win because he writes the judges paychecks :deal

Cintron - Cintron isn't the same fighter he was against Margo. However, who knows shat he can do late into fights? He would have nearly every physical advantage on DLH, and DLH would have polish and arsenal on him. If Steward can prepare him properly, he should win, unless it turns out that his stamina is shit. But there's no way of knowing that - he's never made it to the championship rounds.

FYI, I'm not a hater. I like DLH, I like what he brings to the sport, and I like that he runs a better promotional company than those scumbags King and Arum. I just think he's on his way downhill, and that he's second tier in his weight class at this point. There are plenty of big fights he can make for big money, but I doubt he's enhancing his legacy in any way at this point.

[C Money]

I'm not a DLH fan, but I'll give the guy this much, HE'S FACED EVERYONE!!!! Including Hopkins who he had absolutely NO BUSINESS with at 60. Now early on?? He shucked, jived, and gave some reason for the "Chicken DLH" sentiment, but in the end he reversed that.

I also give him credit for being a world class fighter wins over Vargas, Quartey, MAG, G. Hernandez, Ruelas, Camacho Sr. are respectable. I disagree with the Whitaker decision but "officially" it is what it is. Chavez Sr. was waay past it, but that's not Oscar's fault.

Factor in his amatuer Olympic gold and ya gotta give the man credit as a good fighter. If you compare resume's with a guy like PBF:lol: DLH faced far better opposition.

[C Money]

Mayweathers not cherrypicking he's just not fighting everyone which is impossible.

:lol:

Yeah...OK!!!!


I'll give Primadonna Boy this much, he's now facing Hatton. That's the first step towards reversing the Cherry picking he's done since the beginning.

Let PBF do as many other great CHAMPS have done and what the history of Boxing is about and lay it down vs the best Welters out there. It's a stacked division and Floyd should RELISH the opportunity to face quality opponents and add real legitimacy to his legacy.

SSM, Cotto, and Williams should follow Hatton on Floyd's record:good

[Jose FM]

None of them compare to Quartey? Castillo, Corrales, and Oscar himself. Plus Oscar barley beat Ike and in my book, along with alot of others, didn't beat Whitaker. So take those 2 W's out of his book. Mayweathers just been more dominant over his big fights than Oscar who's barley won or barley lost. Yes Mayweathers first fight with Castillo could've gone either way (by no means a robbery) but he gave the rematch and won convincingly. Mayweathers not cherrypicking he's just not fighting everyone which is impossible.
So youre good at adding and subtracting i see, so then lets give the Mosley and Tito fight, and there are the two quality wins that this the thread starter is talking about. Yeah, Floyd has been more dominant, but hes fought no one dood. If Oscar didnt fight Hopkins, if he didnt fight Trinidad, or Mosley, then he would have been zero in the loss column. Floyds record doesnt touch Oscars end of story. I had him beating Whitaker, and even if you disagree, no one had beat him to that point, so Oscar must done something right, No one had stopped Chavez and Oscar did it twice. People say well, these guys were past their prime, ok but Oscar was fairly green at 23, so again he must have pocessed great skill to beat these great veterans at only 23, hell im 26 and its amazing that he beat 2 ATG greats the way he did at such an early age.:deal

[Jose FM]

Well im not saying Oscar positivley lost his fight with Ike or Whitaker, and he didn't positivley win his fights with Mosley or Tito. Thats what I mean by Oscar not dominating. Its not his problem but he's just too competitive for his own good. I'm not adding or subtracting anything, I give him full credit for his Wins over Sturm, Pernell and Ike just like I give him for his losses over Mosley and Tito. But If he would've completley dominated Whitaker, Ike, and Mosley the 2nd time it would've been a different story. I'm not even sure what the argument here is, but if its about their records heres how I see it. With Floyd having 0 losses against solid competition, granted only a few greats, and Oscar coming up short 5 times against some great fighters I'd have to say they are about even.
Im sorry but Floyd was 26 When fought 2 nobodies in Sosa and n'dou, then at 27 fought Bruseles, at 28 fought Gatti then Mitchell, at 29 fought a guy coming off a pathetic loss in Judah then Baldobum, which i gave him a lil credit but this guys a loser. Finally at 30 fights the biggest name on his resume in DLH. At 30 DLH had fought legends, if he had padded up his record the way Floyd had done, he would ahve looks very very dominant.

[Jose FM]

When I get to posting some more you'll see that I'm un-biased when it comes to any fighters and I agree with you there but your leaving out what he did before he moved up to WW, beating G. Hernandez, Castillo x2, Chavez, Manfredy, and an undefeated Corrales. He moved up and had some entertaining fights against some B class fighters such as Corley, N'dou, and Bruseles, but the Gatti fight he deserves credit for by destroying the man the way he did in a fight that was suppose to be close. Mitchell was a decent name and at least after fighting Zab he fought the guy who beat him.
I give mayweather props for his shortlived career of fighting the best at 135 and below, but he just hasnt done that 140 and up, and its been a couple years now.

[CarltonBlues]

He's had a great careerand many had him beating Trinidad, Mosley(II) and Mayweather.

[Lex]

I am serious when I say this after looking at his entire career Oscar has yet to win a fight that means something...

Then you aren't looking at his entire career.

In his fifth pro fight he stopped Jeff Mayweather, a respectable jr. lightweight/lightweight.

In his eight outing he stopped Troy Dorsey, a tough SOB, in the first round. I saw Troy, a local fellow, in some earlier bouts and he was not easy to stop.

DLH won the WBO Super Feather belt from Jimmy Bredahl in his 12th fight. A couple of months later he kayoed Jorge Paez for the vacant WBO lightweight belt. Paez had been a featherweight champ, a slickster and always a tough guy with lots of experience against the best.

John John Molina, Rafael Rueles, Genaro Hernandez, Jesse James Leija... (sigh...)

Am I boring you?

And this was all before his 1996 trouncing of a past-prime Chavez.

You were prolly still in school when all this was going on. I remember I was stoned most of the time before I was 15, but that's a whole 'nuther story.

[cpnasty]

By no means did De La Hoya beat Mayweather

[the_what]

This isnt anything new. DLH has lost to every prime elite fighter that he has faced. Still has yet to win the 'big' one.

[Thread Stealer]

De La Hoya hasn't had a clear-cut victory over the p4p fighters he's faced.

But he's beaten a lot of solid fighters who were among the division's best at the time.

Ruelas was regarded as the 2nd or 3rd best lightweight at the time (Gonzalez, Nazarov) when Oscar destroyed him. Genaro was one of the top 130 lb. fighters moving up when Oscar beat him. In fact, so were Leija and Molina. Yeah DLH did have a size advantage, but they were solid wins for a young fighter (he won Fighter of the Year in 1995). Gonzalez was better @ 135, but still ranked highly @ 140 in the magazines when Oscar beat him. Rivera was a tough contender who gave Whitaker hell (and later gave Mosley and especially Vargas pretty good fights) and Oscar dominated him. Despite being on the downside, Chavez was still the linear champ @ 140 (thank the WBC, bad judges, and King/Chavez ducking Randall for a decade) when Oscar beat him. Castillejo was a top 5 154 lb. fighter when Oscar beat him, and Vargas was still one of the top junior middleweights out there when Oscar beat him.

[Bazooka]

This isnt anything new. DLH has lost to every prime elite fighter that he has faced. Still has yet to win the 'big' one.

That is my point when I say the Big win I am talking a legit top P4P fighter who isnt past his better years. Oscar has alot of good wins but none of them can stack up to a win over a top rated P4P elite fighter.
He has wins over champions like Ruelas Quartey Whitaker Sturm Vargas Camacho Chavez Hernandez Molina to name a few but the fights that really had legacy written on it, De La Hoya lost those fights and that is really in the end what will matter when histroy is written.

Sure people will be able to always say Oscar is a great champion and he was However he never really broke on through to the other side of greatness he either just barley missed out or was out gunned by the bigger Hopkins.
it doesnt make him a bum by any means and no I am no De La Hoya hater ask anybody this especailly Jack Suckscocks he will tell ya. it just really came to my attention after the Vazquez fight that Oscar really doesnt have that win he is looking for.

[kaygb]

Look, it's real simple. Bazooka's point of this post is Oscar has never ever beaten the very top elite fighters he has fought. The very best were Mosley twice, Trinidad, hopkins and Mayweather. And he lost them all. 0 and 5 against the very best. No one, even us haters, have ever said he is not a damn good fighter who has beaten some great fighters (but usually with an advantage such as weight, beating them past their prime, etc.) but still came out the winner. But when he has fought the very best he lost!!
He's damn good but not the God his huggers portray him to be.
He was ranked #77 ATG by Ring Magazine at one time which was probably pretty acurate but he has fallen down the list with his recent losses yet some have him top 10 ATG which of course is nuthugging at it's best.

[Thread Stealer]

He's damn good but not the God his huggers portray him to be.
He was ranked #77 ATG by Ring Magazine at one time which was probably pretty acurate but he has fallen down the list with his recent losses yet some have him top 10 ATG which of course is nuthugging at it's best.

Who has him in the top 10?

[kaygb]

Sorry Bazooka, I had not read your post just before mine and you said basically the same thing I posted.

[Bazooka]

Who has him in the top 10?

I think KG also gets a bit over board when it comes to the DLH "HUGGERS" I mean he knows that they dont put Oscar up that high, he knows that they dont talk about DLH the way that he makes it out to be.
Kaygb, you can also look at things this way, Though Oscar is in that boat now, Floyd is off to the exact same start and this is something you cant deny.

[kaygb]

Who has him in the top 10?


That I don't remember but honestly, that has been posted here more than once. Windowmaker has Oscar the best even taking Duran apart :lol:

[BeeGee]

question? how was Chavez way past it with only 1 loss on his record when he faced DeLaHoya?

[Fab2333]

de le hoys isn't doing nething right when he fights you moron. de le hoya gets paid so much because he is the GOLDEN BOY. anyone with that much popularity is always going to have fights.

just like jones jr. or mike tyson. people pay to see the golden boy. he's marketable.

yeah he's popular but all these fights he takes he losses. I dont care if he is the Golden Boy or not he keeps losing. But yet people keep ordering his ppv's. Unlike when any other fighter that has a name losses a fight or 2, evry1 rights them off. When RJ was on ppv his ppv sales were nowhere near Oscar's, and RJ was wooping ass and doing it in style, evry1 was entertained watching his fights. But RJ lost 3 ina row and evry1 wrote him off. Oscar has lost to, B-hop, Trinidad, SHane Mosley 2x's, Mayweather. But yet people still pay to watch him.

[Thread Stealer]

question? how was Chavez way past it with only 1 loss on his record when he faced DeLaHoya?

The "one" loss was simply on paper. The Randall rematch was a joke. Chavez was lucky to get a draw against Whitaker also.

Hell, Ali had just 2 official losses when he fought Leon, but he was a shell of what he once was. Chavez in 1996 wasn't as declined as Ali in 1978.

Chavez was at his best probably in the late 80s. He wasn't a shot fighter when he fought DLH, but he was definitely on the downside.

Actually I think it shows how great he was to have a style like his which was usually on the attack and coming forward, and to have that sort of longevity. He had 100 pro fights and was fighting on a championship level for 12 years by the time he faced Oscar.

[Bazooka]

question? how was Chavez way past it with only 1 loss on his record when he faced DeLaHoya?


I think having 80 plus fights would take their toll sooner or later the rematch showed that Chavez lost a step as well. I aint saying he was shot by anymeans but he was up there in age.

[Thread Stealer]

I think having 80 plus fights would take their toll sooner or later the rematch showed that Chavez lost a step as well. I aint saying he was shot by anymeans but he was up there in age.

The first win actually meant something for DLH's legacy.

The rematch, however, was another story. It was just a way to make big money on the Mexican holiday.

[maciek4]

If we are saying that he hasnt won in a legitimate manner then we have to take into account his loses that were not in a legitimate manner, Mosley II and Tito Trinidad.

[Jinx]

Rafael Ruelas, Jesse James Leija, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Obe Carr, Ricardo Mayorga, John John Molina, Jorge Paez, Hector Camacho, and so forth. As well as the fact that most people agree that DLH beat Tito rather easily and Mosley the second time they fought. I also believe that he won his fight against Mayweather. However, even counting those as defeats, it doesn't take away from his great wins.

Ruelas
Leija
Gonzalez
Carr
Mayorga
Molina
Paez

neither on this entire list are considered great fighters...

Camacho was great, but how old was he when Oscar fought him?

and Oscar lost to Mosley, Tito, and Mayweather...quit against Hopkins before he could take a serious beating...

so no Oscar never beat a great fighter in their prime...

[Bazooka]

The bottom line is this, and I hope that a bunch of dumb, ignorant folks here dont call me racist, but it is Gotdamned True.

I was in Vegas for Cinco de Mayweather. For the Weigh in, I had to literally look for some Brothas, who were obviously Pro-Mayweather to sit by, as I have no use for OScar fans. There were about 5 black men, sitting in a row, and I joined them, and we shook hands, and greeted each other, and laughed about how "We may be the only Mayweather fans at this Weigh In." Now a few weeks earlier, the Worthless and Corrupt NBA had some kind of Gathering there, and there were so many Brothas and Sistas there that Weekend, you could hardly book a room.

I DESPISE Basketball, but lotsa Black Folks love dat NBA shit. Not this boxing fan. Give me Mayorga-Vargas over the Spurs vs. the Suns 7 days a week, twice on Sunday. The NBA, and Basketball in general to me is about as worthless as ssabripo's manhood.

Anyway, the bottom line fact is that Latinas and some real fucking weird/semi-queer Latinos love Oscar de la Hoya. I dont get it, as a hardcore fan, he is not great, but only good, and his Promotional Company is a rip off. But when he fights, even though he is going to lose, the Latinas and gay Latinos have their empty lives filled with hope, at least for 12 rounds, until Buffer reads the decision, and Presscot's mouth goes on Full Throttle. Lots of Black Folks could care less about boxing, hence the noise of crickets when Hopkins and Wright fight, two of the best who nobody cares about or for. :deal


Jack your a rasist, Honestly! the truth is Latinos and Latinas do love boxing this is a sport that is in our culture and we do show support for our athleates, which is exactly why there are so many fight fans who pay to see De La Hoya MAB JMM Vazquez etc..
just the way alot of African Americans support their football and Basketball stars its no different, how many Latinos are in either of those sports? so are you saying that the black men that are there, must also be gay? according to your theory that would make them gay correct?

[Lex]

question? how was Chavez way past it with only 1 loss on his record when he faced DeLaHoya?

Fair question.

It was wasn't just that Chavez was near the tail end of a brilliant career. He was up against the wrong competition in DLH. Oscar was bigger, stronger and faster than Chavez at a time when Chavez didn't have the reflexes that made his defense and counterpunching so effective throughout his earlier career.

You know the cliche, "Styles make fights." DLH was just the wrong opponent for Chavez at that point in Chavez' career; or, perhaps, Chavez was the perfect opponent for a DLH trying to cement a TV marque name for himself.

A comparable situation might have been Arguello vs. Pryor. Alexis was a great champion but beyond his ideal weight class and just enough past his prime, and Aaron Pryor was the most dangerous man in that weight class at the time. Even with the advantage of height and size, Sugar Ray Leonard ducked Pryor.

But I digress...

[Lex]

Light competition. Everyone bitches about Julio Jr.'s resume, but act as if Oscar fought all the Dogs of Hell in his early, handpicked career.

You're a tough one to persuade.

Rueles, Hernandez, Leija and Molina were hardly light competition at any time near their primes which, for a few of these guys, was a lot longer than most boxers in this weight class.

And pitting a very young DLH so early in his career against these guys was risky. A calculated risk that paid off, to be sure, but the game is full of similar risks that bombed and either delayed the rise of a promising fighter, or undermined his confidence and ruined him.

I don't know whether you've boxed. I was an amateur for a few years and occasionally had to spar young pros for lack of amateur sparring partners (shh... nobody is supposed to know this dirty secret but it goes on all the time). There's a tremendous difference between a highly ranked amateur and an unknown but seasoned pro. The pro has been under more pressure and doesn't make many stupid mistakes.

At that point in Oscar's pro career, pitting him against Troy Dorsey was as risky as matching, say, Zab Judah against Carlos Baldomir. Troy was a light hitter with a high output and hard head. I saw him beat "better" boxers who didn't take him seriously enough.

Who'dathunkit, hmm?

And Rueles, Hernandez, etc. ... those guys were a serious threat to someone as young and inexperienced as DLH. Especially considering what we now know about DLH's occasional problems with self-confidence back then.