View Full Version : Sugar Shane VS Tito Trinidad
Maxmomer
08-07-2007, 01:43 AM
At welter. Who would have won?
BobDigi5060
08-07-2007, 01:52 AM
I will never forgive Winky unless this fight happens. Would have been a helluva fight @ 154 and a pick em.
SSM by UD in a fight worth every penny.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 02:40 AM
I think Tito could box him with power.
SSM chin is very good but he can be discouraged when he has to weather hard shots when coming in. Plus guys who are bigger and stronger than Shane can take away the physical advantage that he had at lightweight and against the lesser welterweight fighters.
Tito had to speed, skill and natural eye for countering that could really trouble Mosley.
Very close fight, hard one to pick, I expect a lot of differing opinons on it.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 02:46 AM
Plus I dont think neither were particulary skilled or classically schooled fighters. They relied heavily on their natural abilities.
Id go as far to say that Tito was the more textbook fighter. Shane never really had the top shelf skills of a Mayweather or an Ali, he basically outpowered, outspeeded and overwhelmed his opponants with his athletic ability. (ie strength, speed, reflex)
And he used his reflexes as his main defence,
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 02:55 AM
mayweather's skills> tito's skills
No doubt
But also more than Mosley's is what I am saying.
What Im saying with that point is that if Shane wasnt the stronger, faster, more athletic guy then he doesnt have the sort of skills that Mayweather as to fall back on.
Now Shane would be faster and probably more athletic than Tito, but not bigger or stronger, nor would there be a big gap in skill. I cant recall a time that Shane has beaten an elite fighter in their prime that was bigger than him bar De La Hoya.
I think thats a weakness that people overlook when talking about Shane. He wasnt THAT skillful, he was more talent.
And Im a huge Mosley fan.
dave82
08-07-2007, 02:57 AM
Mosley UD. Too fast and elusive for the 1 dimenisonal Tito!
Shane would probably have earned a close decision. He could stick and move when needed. A good example is the first Vargas fight...and yes 'Nando was past his prime (though not shot yet, imo), but so was Shane.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 03:02 AM
Guess there arent to many differing opinions. :lol:
Nobody agrees with me :D
Serves me right for going against my man Sugar.
Plus I dont think neither were particulary skilled or classically schooled fighters. They relied heavily on their natural abilities.
Id go as far to say that Tito was the more textbook fighter. Shane never really had the top shelf skills of a Mayweather or an Ali, he basically outpowered, outspeeded and overwhelmed his opponants with his athletic ability. (ie strength, speed, reflex)
And he used his reflexes as his main defence,
Great posts once again Rock. Agree that this would be a very tough fight. I might actually lean towards Tito in this one. He had most trouble with guys with either good movement, good jabs or both. I think Shane can move well, but against pressure fighters I have never seen him move like Floyd, he tends to sit in the pockets and look to counter punch on the way in. Tito was a dynamic in fighter, with explosive power. I can see him overwhelming Shane, although it would be a tremendous fight. If Shane could keep his movement up he could take it.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 03:13 AM
Great posts once again Rock. Agree that this would be a very tough fight. I might actually lean towards Tito in this one. He had most trouble with guys with either good movement, good jabs or both. I think Shane can move well, but against pressure fighters I have never seen him move like Floyd, he tends to sit in the pockets and look to counter punch on the way in. Tito was a dynamic in fighter, with explosive power. I can see him overwhelming Shane, although it would be a tremendous fight. If Shane could keep his movement up he could take it.
Cheers MSTR
Yeah definitely but I just feel that Shane doesnt have a lot of history fighting like that. Guys like Whitaker, Camacho, Carr and Reid were better at that and Tito was fairly dominant against them but of course sweet pea and macho were considerbly past it.
I dont think Shane could run aswell as Oscar, just wasnt his thing.
A lot of boxing fans have short memories rock. I am talking about the prime tito, the wrecking machine, the guy who floored a prime and undefeated Vargas three times in the opening round, who totally dominated Pernell Whitaker, who destroyed a prime and undefeated Yori Campas, you captured his first world title with a brutal knockout.
Cheers MSTR
Yeah definitely but I just feel that Shane doesnt have a lot of history fighting like that. Guys like Whitaker, Camacho, Carr and Reid were better at that and Tito was fairly dominant against them but of course sweet pea and macho were considerbly past it.
I dont think Shane could run aswell as Oscar, just wasnt his thing.
I don't think Shane has ever looked great against pressure. Watched him vs Holliday and wasn't impressed. Watched him vs an OLD and beaten Vargas and wasn't impressed. I expect Cotto to take him apart with effective pressure. Oscar provided pressure, but in the first fight it wasn't effective for the most part. He isn't active enough to be a true pressure fighter. Guys like Cotto and Tito break your will, and overpower you. thats something that Oscar couldn't do inside like Tito.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 03:16 AM
Thats what I thought this meant. Tito was a beast at welter.
Elusive? :lol: Since when has anyone but you every described Shane as anything to do with "elusive"? Shane bangs, so does Tito, Tito bangs harder. Tito by Decision though in a great fight, both might go down.
Would have been a great fight. Agree with your assesment. Very close, with both guys landing big punches.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 03:23 AM
i woudn't say he dominated a pernell whitaker....i wouldnt'' even say he dominated a shot whitaker
I would.
I would say fairly dominant, not a shut out or beat down but its very very hard to be dominant against Sweet Pea. Remember Oscar got a very thin decision against him like only 18 months before.
I think the fact that Sweet Pea said that it was his first true loss is testament to how well Tito did.
Yeah fair enough he didn't DOMINATE Whitaker... But he basically shut him out on the judges card. He was definitely shot at the time though. The point is that people are basing their assesment on the Tito that got spanked by Winky, when he is a much better fighter then what he looked like in that fight.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 03:29 AM
Yeah fair enough he didn't DOMINATE Whitaker... But he basically shut him out on the judges card. He was definitely shot at the time though. The point is that people are basing their assesment on the Tito that got spanked by Winky, when he is a much better fighter then what he looked like in that fight.
Zackly
Well said.
carras
08-07-2007, 03:39 AM
Yeah fair enough he didn't DOMINATE Whitaker... But he basically shut him out on the judges card. He was definitely shot at the time though. The point is that people are basing their assesment on the Tito that got spanked by Winky, when he is a much better fighter then what he looked like in that fight.
yup, boxing fans tend to have short term memory. Tito @ welter and 154 was a monster.
Tito by close decision or late stoppage.
very close fight.
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 03:43 AM
Pea won 4 rounds by my scorecard, even had Tito rocked at one point. But c'mon, while a good win still for Tito, that was a totally shot Pea. He wasn't even a defensive fighter anymore, he simply didn't have near the capabilities he used to, and he basically fought Tito the whole time. Much as he clearly lost I like what that fight says about Pea's heart and determination.
Fair enough, thats an arguement for another day though.
Really the point is that Tito COULD fight a mover and I dont think Shane is/was the kind of mover Sweet Pea was.
bb251
08-07-2007, 04:02 AM
shane beats him
WhataRock
08-07-2007, 04:05 AM
The Sweet Pea that faced Oscar and the Sweet Pea that faced Tito were not the same fighters AT ALL. Before Tito he was just getting out of rehab and was far past his best days. At least during the Oscar fight he wasn't in that bad shape. Still past it in the Oscar fight, but not like he was against Tito.
And I don't recall Pea saying that, in fact I believe his words to Merchant after the decision were "They did it to me againt Larry". :lol:
Im 100% sure Ive read it but I didnt hear the words come out of his mouth.
JustinD
08-07-2007, 11:12 AM
Shane only had problems with guys who were much bigger than him who jabbed his head off, thus taking his speed and greatest weapon away from him. I can't see Tito doing this, but it would be a great fight anyway.
Rumsfeld
08-07-2007, 12:11 PM
I'll take Shane via close decision, but it won't have been easy.
IntentionalButt
08-07-2007, 12:47 PM
Talent, skill, and heart vs. talent alone. Hm. :think
Thread Stealer
08-07-2007, 12:53 PM
Shane would probably have earned a close decision. He could stick and move when needed. A good example is the first Vargas fight...and yes 'Nando was past his prime (though not shot yet, imo), but so was Shane.
Shane was getting caught with straight rights all night from slow Vargas.
Of course Mosley was quicker years before and sharper, but he was never a defensive specialist, and was more effective being aggressive and trading (the whole power-boxing thing) than being on the backfoot or using lateral movement, a la DLH and Hopkins. Obviously Mosley is not as hard to hit in the pocket as Wright is.
That being said, Mosley could still provide problems for Tito (and most guys for that matter) with his speed and own respectable skill set. He'd get some straight right hands down the middle and maybe drop Tito in the 2nd, then Tito gets up and gradually beats up Mosley with straight right hands. I make Tito the slight favorite here.
Tito would've been the first to stop Shane Mosley...Mosley obviously has the advantage of speed, but he gives up that advantage as he comes in wildly throwing his left hook...Forrest capitalized on that and brutalized Mosley, and i can see Tito being behind on the cards and then catching Mosley with a flush hook...it would look like the David Reid fight, except Mosley won't last the distance like the bigger Reid did...Tito TKO 11 Mosley
jecxbox
08-07-2007, 02:21 PM
I think Tito could box him with power.
SSM chin is very good but he can be discouraged when he has to weather hard shots when coming in. Plus guys who are bigger and stronger than Shane can take away the physical advantage that he had at lightweight and against the lesser welterweight fighters.
Tito had to speed, skill and natural eye for countering that could really trouble Mosley.
Very close fight, hard one to pick, I expect a lot of differing opinons on it.
I agree 100%..Man Tito is nearly 6 feet tall and he had a power jab from hell and could take that step back off your jab and counter with that viscious left hook. And if wasnt that you were running into his sledge hammer right cross. (This is the Tito at 147 im saying).
If Vernon Forrest made Mosley buckle, Imagine what Tito would have done? Tito much more talented than Forrest.
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