Look at it without emotion, be rational

[Beebs]

Take away his pro wrestling, take away his obviously scripted interviews, take away all your hatred for him, and truely look at what Brock is:

What is Brock? Brock is simply the modern Mark Kerr, the modern Mark Coleman, and yes, the modern Randy Couture. All of those men jumped to the front of the line at least a little bit due to their wrestling background.

Take away all emotion from the equation, step back, look rationally, and you will see that Brock is simply the modern version of a proven quantity in MMA, the dominant American wrestler with absurd strength and great work ethic, the only difference is unlike Kerr and Coleman, Brock is quickly developing all aspects of his game, not just one or two.

This has been going on since UFC 4 guys, it is in every weight class, hell even every country. In Japan its usually Judo, guys like Mach, but they also have their wrestlers like Ishida. Brazil has a long history of big guys coming in starting way back with Zulu in the 80s, Morais in the eary 90s.

This is nothing new, its just that Brock had the most intense spotlight on him because so many people want MMA to not be shown up by pro wrestling, but guess what? Pro wrestling had nothing to do with it, it was simply the better finacial offer Brock had at the time. Not to mention half of Japanese MMA grew out of wrestling, and the culture of pro wrestling is very much alive. Sakuraba pro wrestled to pay the bills, so did Brock, yet one is the most beloved character of all time, and one is one of the most hated. As time goes on and people realize that Brock's MMA ability has nothing to do with his pro Wrestling, and everything to do with his Amateur wrestling and MMA training, the hate will hopefully die down.

This is also not the first time a guy has won with so much of a size difference, this goes back as far as the heavyweight division in any sport, look at Jim Jefferies, he like Brock was skilled, but he was also the most amazing athlete of his day and won alot of fights because of his size and strength being used to enhance his skill. Anton Geesink, the Dutch Judoka, Karelin, the most dominant athlete in any sport ever in my opinion, and in alot of ways he is very similar to Brock. Take away all the personality issues with Brock, he is being no less cocky than Muhamed Ali, and even if you don't like his personality, that doesn't mean the sport is being tarnished, the sport is the sport, not the talking.

Yes its sad to see Randy lose to a newcomer, but Randy started his career almost identically to Brock, straight into the big leagues, dominating with wrestling, and then adding more to his game each day. It was a passing of the torch, not a change of the game.

Everybody needs to calm down, be rational, take a step back, and realize this is nothing new, not to MMA, and not even to combat sports, any of them. The heavyweight division in all sports can at times be dominated by guys who are simply freaks of nature.

[chimba]

Good post! I just dont get it... BTW you forgot to add that Saku turned out to be one of the greatest MMA fighter of all time..

Add to this the exposure this brings...We already have this 22 year old Olympic Gold medalist Judoka frm Japan skipping his am career and going straight to MMA. Why? he knows he can compete and he was offered a multi million dollar contract. I can almost guarantee you he'll be very successful.

[sugarngold]

I've always been a fan of Lesnar. I just didn't want him to beat Couture. He can go on to be a great asset to the sport.

[AJAX]

You have to be impressed with Brock's standup which is impressive considering the short time he has done it. Kerr,Coleman,Randleman have even still after all these years really not learned to throw a punch and Brock is only getting better.

[ufoalf]

Take away all the emotion, he's nothing but a fuckin meat full of steroids.

[Beebs]

I've always been a fan of Lesnar. I just didn't want him to beat Couture. He can go on to be a great asset to the sport.

Neither did I, but thats because I find Randy inspirational, but I am just showing that Brock is nothing new, he is just the newest version of a long, long history of people like him in all sports.

[sugarngold]

You have to be impressed with Brock's standup which is impressive considering the short time he has done it. Kerr,Coleman,Randleman have even still after all these years really not learned to throw a punch and Brock is only getting better.

Dare I say it's because Lesnar's training with JKD certified shooto champion EriK Paulson? :good

[Beebs]

Take away all the emotion, he's nothing but a fuckin meat full of steroids.

Whatever steroids he may have taken in the past, he is absolutely clean of all performance enhancing drugs that are banned right now.

Steroids don't make a frame bigger, they don't make a bone structure bigger. I'm not a huge fan of Brock, but be reasonable.

[Beebs]

Dare I say it's because Lesnar's training with JKD certified shooto champion EriK Paulson? :good

Well clearly it is, but Paulson's style of JKD is heavily based on boxing, muay thai, and Karate; and lets just say that we didn't see Brock using much Karate, he certainly was not using wing chun.

[Jack Presscot]

Take away his pro wrestling, take away his obviously scripted interviews, take away all your hatred for him, and truely look at what Brock is:

What is Brock? Brock is simply the modern Mark Kerr, the modern Mark Coleman, and yes, the modern Randy Couture. All of those men jumped to the front of the line at least a little bit due to their wrestling background.

Take away all emotion from the equation, step back, look rationally, and you will see that Brock is simply the modern version of a proven quantity in MMA, the dominant American wrestler with absurd strength and great work ethic, the only difference is unlike Kerr and Coleman, Brock is quickly developing all aspects of his game, not just one or two.

This has been going on since UFC 4 guys, it is in every weight class, hell even every country. In Japan its usually Judo, guys like Mach, but they also have their wrestlers like Ishida. Brazil has a long history of big guys coming in starting way back with Zulu in the 80s, Morais in the eary 90s.

This is nothing new, its just that Brock had the most intense spotlight on him because so many people want MMA to not be shown up by pro wrestling, but guess what? Pro wrestling had nothing to do with it, it was simply the better finacial offer Brock had at the time. Not to mention half of Japanese MMA grew out of wrestling, and the culture of pro wrestling is very much alive. Sakuraba pro wrestled to pay the bills, so did Brock, yet one is the most beloved character of all time, and one is one of the most hated. As time goes on and people realize that Brock's MMA ability has nothing to do with his pro Wrestling, and everything to do with his Amateur wrestling and MMA training, the hate will hopefully die down.

This is also not the first time a guy has won with so much of a size difference, this goes back as far as the heavyweight division in any sport, look at Jim Jefferies, he like Brock was skilled, but he was also the most amazing athlete of his day and won alot of fights because of his size and strength being used to enhance his skill. Anton Geesink, the Dutch Judoka, Karelin, the most dominant athlete in any sport ever in my opinion, and in alot of ways he is very similar to Brock. Take away all the personality issues with Brock, he is being no less cocky than Muhamed Ali, and even if you don't like his personality, that doesn't mean the sport is being tarnished, the sport is the sport, not the talking.

Yes its sad to see Randy lose to a newcomer, but Randy started his career almost identically to Brock, straight into the big leagues, dominating with wrestling, and then adding more to his game each day. It was a passing of the torch, not a change of the game.

Everybody needs to calm down, be rational, take a step back, and realize this is nothing new, not to MMA, and not even to combat sports, any of them. The heavyweight division in all sports can at times be dominated by guys who are simply freaks of nature.You will never live down the fact that a "fake" WWF Wrestler kicked all your asses. :good

[Rock0052]

Take away his pro wrestling, take away his obviously scripted interviews, take away all your hatred for him, and truely look at what Brock is:

What is Brock? Brock is simply the modern Mark Kerr, the modern Mark Coleman, and yes, the modern Randy Couture. All of those men jumped to the front of the line at least a little bit due to their wrestling background.

Take away all emotion from the equation, step back, look rationally, and you will see that Brock is simply the modern version of a proven quantity in MMA, the dominant American wrestler with absurd strength and great work ethic, the only difference is unlike Kerr and Coleman, Brock is quickly developing all aspects of his game, not just one or two.

This has been going on since UFC 4 guys, it is in every weight class, hell even every country. In Japan its usually Judo, guys like Mach, but they also have their wrestlers like Ishida. Brazil has a long history of big guys coming in starting way back with Zulu in the 80s, Morais in the eary 90s.

This is nothing new, its just that Brock had the most intense spotlight on him because so many people want MMA to not be shown up by pro wrestling, but guess what? Pro wrestling had nothing to do with it, it was simply the better finacial offer Brock had at the time. Not to mention half of Japanese MMA grew out of wrestling, and the culture of pro wrestling is very much alive. Sakuraba pro wrestled to pay the bills, so did Brock, yet one is the most beloved character of all time, and one is one of the most hated. As time goes on and people realize that Brock's MMA ability has nothing to do with his pro Wrestling, and everything to do with his Amateur wrestling and MMA training, the hate will hopefully die down.

This is also not the first time a guy has won with so much of a size difference, this goes back as far as the heavyweight division in any sport, look at Jim Jefferies, he like Brock was skilled, but he was also the most amazing athlete of his day and won alot of fights because of his size and strength being used to enhance his skill. Anton Geesink, the Dutch Judoka, Karelin, the most dominant athlete in any sport ever in my opinion, and in alot of ways he is very similar to Brock. Take away all the personality issues with Brock, he is being no less cocky than Muhamed Ali, and even if you don't like his personality, that doesn't mean the sport is being tarnished, the sport is the sport, not the talking.

Yes its sad to see Randy lose to a newcomer, but Randy started his career almost identically to Brock, straight into the big leagues, dominating with wrestling, and then adding more to his game each day. It was a passing of the torch, not a change of the game.

Everybody needs to calm down, be rational, take a step back, and realize this is nothing new, not to MMA, and not even to combat sports, any of them. The heavyweight division in all sports can at times be dominated by guys who are simply freaks of nature.

Quite true. I still can't understand one thing- how so many fans dis Brock because of his pro wrestling days, yet fell hook, line, and sinker for his "heel" (villain) act leading into this fight and now actually hate or dislike him. Half of pro wrestling is working angles and selling fights and his attitude leading into the fight was classic "bad guy". All the boos just meant he did his job.

It's a fine example of life imitating art.

[ufoalf]

You will never live down the fact that a "fake" WWF Wrestler kicked all your asses. :good

He's not fake wrestler. He's huge, and strong and unskilled. He kicked an 45y.o. overrated ass that I'm a big fan off. Today is the last day I'm posting until my avatar expired. Not because of the avatar but because I'm so disappointed in Couture.

[Jack Presscot]

He's not fake wrestler. He's huge, and strong and unskilled. He kicked an 45y.o. overrated ass that I'm a big fan off. Today is the last day I'm posting until my avatar expired. Not because of the avatar but because I'm so disappointed in Couture.Unskilled? Former WWE Champion, former NCAA Champion, he can outwrestle any MMA guy around, and he knows how to box well and throws a mean knee strike and elbow. :hey

[AJAX]

Take away all the emotion, he's nothing but a fuckin meat full of steroids.

If you look at him from his WWE days and what he looks like now it's obvious he's not on juice, he really doesn't need to be, and to say he is unskilled is very ignorant.

[Beebs]

You will never live down the fact that a "fake" WWF Wrestler kicked all your asses. :good

Sorry, your trolling is useless. MMA fighters have a long history of doing pro wrestling to pay the bills before MMA became what it is today in terms of money.

The entire business of pro wrestling developed from guys who could actually fight needing to make a quick buck; if some sucker wants to watch fake fights and pay for it, hey somebody has to separate those fools from their money.

The most beloved fighter in the history of the sport paid his bills by pro wrestling before becoming a full time MMA fighter, so you have missed the bus by about a decade.

Good attempt though, but this is one time your trolling is just not going to work.

[AJAX]

Sorry, your trolling is useless. MMA fighters have a long history of doing pro wrestling to pay the bills before MMA became what it is today in terms of money.

The entire business of pro wrestling developed from guys who could actually fight needing to make a quick buck; if some sucker wants to watch fake fights and pay for it, hey somebody has to separate those fools from their money.

The most beloved fighter in the history of the sport paid his bills by pro wrestling before becoming a full time MMA fighter, so you have missed the bus by about a decade.

Good attempt though, but this is one time your trolling is just not going to work.

haha, he's already worn that one out.....he's grasping for staws now.:hi:

[ufoalf]

If you look at him from his WWE days and what he looks like now it's obvious he's not on juice, he really doesn't need to be, and to say he is unskilled is very ignorant.

No, it's the truth. He has very little experience in anything other than wrestling. To say otherwise, on the other hand, IS ignorant.

[jimmie]

Im already getting sick of the Lesnar hate ive read about him. Go watch this guys training routine guys like that deserve to be Champions he has an incredible workrate in the gym where the Champs are made. Hes unskilled ? Based on one he has yet to display poor striking technique,his wrestling is obviously top of the food chain. Hes a badass and is going to continue to improved his BJJ.

[cdnboxing]

You have to be impressed with Brock's standup which is impressive considering the short time he has done it. Kerr,Coleman,Randleman have even still after all these years really not learned to throw a punch and Brock is only getting better.

Brock still isnt considered a good striker by any means. But he does have unquestionable power in his hands. When and if he learns how to box he will be dangerous. Right now hes just a physical force with athleticism and a great wrestling background.

Wrestling is a huge asset to MMA and its amazing to see so many wrestlers rise through the MMA ranks so quickly.

Brock at 32-33 years of age has a bright future in the sport and as he gains more experience he will become even more dangerous. With that said I actually think he can take Nog and I definitely think he will take Mir if they rematch. Fedor, however is out of the question. Fedor would exploit some of the holes in Brocks game.

[cdnboxing]

And yes, Lesnar has definitely at some point in his career been on juice.

[AJAX]

Thanks captain obvious, but look at the build he had years ago in WWE and the build he has now There arn't even close, at his size, speed and strength he really doesn't need juice at this point and why would he risk getting caught and ruin his career. The one guy in UFC I think is juicing and should be caught is Thiago Alves, he went through a rapid growth spurt and is a huge man who can still fight at 170 even though he walks around over 200lbs.

[Beebs]

Brock still isnt considered a good striker by any means. But he does have unquestionable power in his hands. When and if he learns how to box he will be dangerous. Right now hes just a physical force with athleticism and a great wrestling background.

Wrestling is a huge asset to MMA and its amazing to see so many wrestlers rise through the MMA ranks so quickly.

Brock at 32-33 years of age has a bright future in the sport and as he gains more experience he will become even more dangerous. With that said I actually think he can take Nog and I definitely think he will take Mir if they rematch. Fedor, however is out of the question. Fedor would exploit some of the holes in Brocks game.

Hes floored a former champion and current contender, a former contender, and KO'd the champion, that is good striking, period.

I don't care how he does it, this is MMA, all that matters is results, it doesn't matter how you get from point A to point B, just that you do. He has, on 3 seperate occasions.

[MaliSlamusrex]

Lesner is a clever fighter he used his strenghts against Coture, the only place Lesner has an advantage over Coture was in a clinch, in a clinch if your stronger than the guy you can dominate him, knee him wear him down and finish him. Lesner has got a game plan and it worked against coture, against Mir he looked clueless.

to all of you that say his strenght and power is amazing and will win him fights its just not true, if you get a guy on the floor it doesnt matter how strong you are, you can get submitted by guys 1/2 your size and 1/2 your strenght.

everyone says Lesner was good at wrestling it will help him in taking a position, but he wont see a finish and it that wont help him that much in MMA because most Wreslting matches end with a pin not a submission, Lesner needs to stay of the ground, avoid striking take a guy into the clinch and knee him because i dont see anyone competing with him in this aspect of MMA, if not he is not skilled enough to win.

[Beebs]

Did you even watch the fucking fight?

He didn't win in the clinch, he won striking.

And like it or not size and strength does matter, yes he can still get submitted, but it is alot harder.

[MaliSlamusrex]

he wore him down with a clinch and knee's in the first round and finished him with strikes in the second.

i am around 250lb i bench like 150k+ and squat i dont know how much i can squat it depends on what i feel like. on the ground strenght doesnt count that much a guy with technique will win 95 times out of 100.

Did you even watch the fucking fight?

He didn't win in the clinch, he won striking.

And like it or not size and strength does matter, yes he can still get submitted, but it is alot harder.

[Beebs]

he wore him down with a clinch and knee's in the first round and finished him with strikes in the second.

i am around 250lb i bench like 150k+ and squat i dont know how much i can squat it depends on what i feel like. on the ground strenght doesnt count that much a guy with technique will win 95 times out of 100.

The thing is that Brock has technique, thats why his strength matters, thats why there are weightclasses, because pro fighters are not untrained strong guys, they are highly trained strong guys. Technique will beat size, but not when the big guy has technique, thats why Brock got the better of the grappling against Randy, and 100% of the grappling against Herring.

[MaliSlamusrex]

thats your opinion, i think Lesner's ground game is awful. i think his best chance is to physically dominate opponents standing up and wear them down.

The thing is that Brock has technique, thats why his strength matters, thats why there are weightclasses, because pro fighters are not untrained strong guys, they are highly trained strong guys. Technique will beat size, but not when the big guy has technique, thats why Brock got the better of the grappling against Randy, and 100% of the grappling against Herring.

[cdnboxing]

Hes floored a former champion and current contender, a former contender, and KO'd the champion, that is good striking, period.

I don't care how he does it, this is MMA, all that matters is results, it doesn't matter how you get from point A to point B, just that you do. He has, on 3 seperate occasions.

So Gonzaga is a great striker because he floored Crocop?
Serra is a great striker because he floored GSP?

Results matter in every combat sport. The point is Lesnar is far from being a good technical striker. Mir is a one-dimensional UFC champion who I think is highly overrated. So lesnar floored a BJJ fighter with no striking ability? Who cares. And Couture hit Lesnar quite easily with some good shots throughout the fight.

Lesnar is a great athlete with some power but is not what you'd consider a good striker. Hes far from it.

[Beebs]

This is silly, the man has 3 fights with undeniable proof that his striking works, there is no evidence to show that his striking is ineffective, there is no evidence to show his striking defense is poor.

I don't give one fifth a fuck if its "technical" or not; its like calling George Foreman a bad boxer, it doesn't matter if its only due to his power, he has his power, its real, it exists. Guess what? if something is works, its good. It doesn't matter if it is good in some sort of vacuum outside of reality, meeting scoring criteria for technicality. This isn't figure skating, the only thing that matters is the end result.

For the record, yes, Gonzaga is a decent striker, he spent most of his career at Chute Boxe, and has big power.

Serra has never replicated his one performance, Brock has done it in 3 separate fights against 2 champions and 1 #1 contender, that is undeniable.

So call it "beating good fighters over and over with striking that doesn't meet some abstract notion of what "good striking" is" if you want. It doesn't matter, he gets results with his striking, over and over, against good fighters.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

KO'd Couture after landing several very good strikes

Dropped Herring with the first punch of the match

Dropped Mir with the first punch of the match

Has never suffered any damage from strikes.

These are quantifiable, repeatable results, he has proven to be good while striking, his striking has proven it can work against a world champion, a former world champion, and a former #1 contender who nearly KO'd Nog.

Man, sure must suck to have striking that bad.

[IntentionalButt]

Good thread.

[rusty nails]

no one should say crap about him until at least his tenth fight..

[rydersonthestorm]

I think he is the new mark kerr alot of you are underestimating what kerr did in his short reign in mma, he was learning to be rhe full package like lesnar is trying and lesnar should have the time to train to a good standard in all aspects.

[MaliSlamusrex]

Bob Sapp the 2nd

[Dostoevsky]

Bob Sapp the 2nd

Bob Sapp II just kicked Hall of Famer Randy Couture's ass.

[Rock0052]

And yes, Lesnar has definitely at some point in his career been on juice.

You're right, especially in the WWE days.

I'm not sold Randy hasn't been either, though. It's alot more common than people think.

[MaliSlamusrex]

Bob Sapp beat Hoost early on in his career and everyone said he was the best thing s sliced bread.

Bob Sapp II just kicked Hall of Famer Randy Couture's ass.

[Beebs]

Bob Sapp beat Hoost early on in his career and everyone said he was the best thing s sliced bread.

Bob Sapp beat him 3 times.

[MaliSlamusrex]

I know Bobb Sapp beat Hoost 3 times, but your missing the point completley, Bobb Sapp is a decent fighter and it is proved by his record. Bob Sapp had one dimention to his game wearing people down with strenght and maybe getting a ko. i think Lesner is the same at the moment, because he won 3 out of 4 fights he is not as good as lot of H/W out there, and i think time will prove me right.

Bob Sapp beat him 3 times.