David Hayes record

[scurlaruntings]

Haye has achieved in only 23 fights what took Joe and Hatton there entire careers. Bearing in mind P4P the depth of Hayes competition is possibly superior to Joe and Hattons career ledgers. Is this an indication of how badly SN molly coddle there fighters? Discuss.

[JIM KELLY]

I see it as Haye taking higher risks which paid off very well !

[TFFP]

I don't think it is to be honest. Certainly not superior to Calzaghe's anyway.

[TehRileh]

If he beats both Klits then his record is fantastic. Unified Cruiserweight and Heavyweight in 25 fights.

[TFFP]

In 23 fights certaintly.

But his overall record, no.

[TFFP]

If Haye quits at 30-1 having beaten the Klitschko's and whoever else, there will be no argument Haye's record is phenomenal and it surpasses Calzaghe easily. He would be have been unified cruiser and undisputed heavyweight champion, a rare achievement, probably one of the top 50 of all-time.

But as it is, Mormeck was a very good win, but we don't know how good Maccarinelli is really. Can we really say he's much better than a Bika based on what he has (or hasn't) achieved?

Then guys like Gurov and the Italian, you can compare them to 10 guys on Calzaghe's resume. They are solid but unspectacular.

[TFFP]

scurla claimed he has achieved what they did in their entire careers, I'm comparing it on that basis and he plainly hasn't yet. No doubt its a very impressive start, but the huge challenges are ahead.

His destiny is in his own hands, he has the opportunity for greatness right there infront of him. Two fights against the Klitschko's. Then if he picks up the final belt, and fights a few other contenders to improve his longevity and depth of resume - what can you say? Cast iron top 50 great for me.

I don't think it will happen, but he has a golden chance to achieve greatness in one or two fights which Calzaghe never did. He's still searching for it even now with some.

[hitman_hatton1]

scurla claimed he has achieved what they did in their entire careers, I'm comparing it on that basis and he plainly hasn't yet. No doubt its a very impressive start, but the huge challenges are ahead.

yeah course he ain't.

haye was actually older than hatton when he won the world title. :yep

[Beeston Brawler]

This is the way forward certainly.

Getting the fighters in big fights whilst in their prime, and spending it beating good people instead of chumps like Tocker Pudwill or Dennis Pedersen.

Not exactly rocket science, is it?

[robpalmer135]

to be fair if 99% of fighters came along at the pace of haye they would not have a career. he is a breath of fresh air.

take they way hayemaker are handling rhodes. Vuma is better than anyone on Moore, Pryce and Smalls records - 3 guys ranked by alphabets that say they wanna be world champs.

[Beeston Brawler]

No, in that instance you are correct.

It is much easier to fight often for less money than choose quality opponents and take risks - some guys are happy to do that knowing they can't cut it at the top level (Lockett, Small, Jennings etc).

Rhodes has been handled superbly for the past year - gets the British title back, first defence and then a fight which gets him into the WBC top 10 and a possible title shot.

Moore has been waiting longer than that for a EBU fight.

I don't usually cut people a lot of slack taking inter-alphabetty fights, but this one is clever as it serves a purpose. What purpose does Khan/Mitchell's inter-alphabetty fights serve?

[Cobbler]

This is the way forward certainly.

Getting the fighters in big fights whilst in their prime, and spending it beating good people instead of chumps like Tocker Pudwill or Dennis Pedersen.

Not exactly rocket science, is it?

Don't you think it weakens your argument when you try to compare against the 'weak' nature of Hatton and Calzaghe's opposition, but the examples you choose to pick are one guy who was a replacement opponent at a couple of weeks notice and one guy who was a replacement opponent at a couple of days notice?

I don't really know what you're claiming? Is there something about Haye than means none of his opponents will ever pull out of a fight? Or maybe you mean that, if a Haye opponent does pull out, he'll be able to magic up a Klitschko to step in at the last minute? Which one?

[Beeston Brawler]

Don't you think it weakens your argument when you try to compare against the 'weak' nature of Hatton and Calzaghe's opposition, but the examples you choose to pick are one guy who was a replacement opponent at a couple of weeks notice and one guy who was a replacement opponent at a couple of days notice?

I don't really know what you're claiming? Is there something about Haye than means none of his opponents will ever pull out of a fight? Or maybe you mean that, if a Haye opponent does pull out, he'll be able to magic up a Klitschko to step in at the last minute? Which one?

Pedersen and Pudwill were bad examples - but do you really believe Kelson Pinto was ever coming?

Read Hatton's book - he has doubts as well :deal

I think what Scurla is trying to point out is that Haye has consistently taken what could be considered 'risky' fights at a relatively early stage - whilst the likes of Calzaghe and Hatton didn't. That isn't an opinion, that is a fact.

I like Hatton a lot, but could you really see too many of the WBU opponents beating him (other than perhaps Tackie and Phillips) - Steven Smith was perhaps the weakest opponent he faced other than Colin McAuley and Brian Coleman!

Ditto Calzaghe - outside of Woodhall, Reid and a couple of others, did they have a chance? Was Veit worth a rematch?

[Cobbler]

The above is all true.

It just grates when people criticise, for example, Calzaghe's resume and use Tocker Pudwill as an example. It's smacks of an intellectually dishonest argument. If someone really think that there are weak points in a fighters resume, highlight the fighters that they organised planned fights against.

I think what Scurla is trying to point out is that Haye has consistently taken what could be considered 'risky' fights at a relatively early stage - whilst the likes of Calzaghe and Hatton didn't. That isn't an opinion, that is a fact.

Yes it is. If it inspires up and coming fighters to do likewise then all the better.

[Beeston Brawler]

The above is all true.

It just grates when people criticise, for example, Calzaghe's resume and use Tocker Pudwill as an example. It's smacks of an intellectually dishonest argument. If someone really think that there are weak points in a fighters resume, highlight the fighters that they organised planned fights against.



Yes it is. If it inspires up and coming fighters to do likewise then all the better.

Will McIntyre or Branco Sobot would have been better :ko :vonnecunt

[dwilson]

Haye has beaten no one worth noting. He lost to old Thompson beat a shot to shit Mormeck and beat a top 20 cruiser in Enzo and at the weekend he beat a poor heavy.

[Diablo]

Haye has achieved in only 23 fights what took Joe and Hatton there entire careers. Bearing in mind P4P the depth of Hayes competition is possibly superior to Joe and Hattons career ledgers. Is this an indication of how badly SN molly coddle there fighters? Discuss.

Scurla has always been a Calzaghe and Hatton hater..so its hard to take his posts seriously.

Haye is doing well, theres no doubt about it and hes exciting to watch. But to say hes acheived more than Ricky and Joe's entire career is laughable.

A 36 year old Mormeck is his best win
Enzo is a top 10 cruiser at best
And Barrett is a heavyweight gate keeper

[GazOC]

Haye has quite obviously not achieved in his career what Hatton and Calzaghe have, but time is on his side and after 23 fights he's doing better than either were at that stage in their careers.

[realsoulja]

What would Haye's record looked like if Frank ****** was in charge

[jc]

We can use Hayes record to slag of Calzaghe but inreality every boxer will have a different career, will peak at different times and will get the big money fights at different times.

Yes Haye won the unified title in no time at all, as his impact at heavyweight is already being felt even though he has only had 2 fights there, but i dont expect Haye to have 46 fights and wont be boxing when he is 37, so its swings and roundabouts.

Both Hopkins and Hagler are fighters who didnt get accolades or big money fights til late on in their careers...doesnt make them any less great.

[TFFP]

The problem Haye has is although it seems like he's way ahead of what Calzaghe did on number of fights, is that he's actually 28 years old and plans on being out of the game by 31. So he actually has about 3 years, is never going to reach as many fights anyway, and in my opinion he won't have any longevity anyway with his style.

So he really has to do it all now, its not as if he's got all the time in the world to pile up a huge resume that blasts Calzaghe out of the water.

[Imperfect Recor]

I think Haye knows his limitations and knows that one day he'll walk onto what will be a curtains punch. He's as much as said that he has a weak chin and taking counts is part of his "exciting style". This perhaps explains why he's trying to manufacture a hit and run career i.e. out by his early 30s. But once he gets a taste of the elite big time and the offers come in, will he be able to stay away from the lure of the dirty dosh?

[Freedom]

I don't think it is to be honest. Certainly not superior to Calzaghe's anyway.

True, Hatton and Calzaghe never lost a fight before winning the crown.

[Beeston Brawler]

In terms of what he has achieved in the number of fights he has had, he is WAY infront of what Hatton and Calzaghe had done at the same stage.

However, given that he wants to get out by the age of 30 and has fought (and will continue to fight) in relatively weak divisions I don't see him going above either in a British P4P list.

This is the way forward though, actually testing yourself against guys that could beat you. In their first 30 fights each, Hatton and Calzaghe probably fought only one/two each that could beat them. Haye has fought a few more.

[JonOli]

I wonder if picking up a loss early on helped with his resume progress - and contributes to his attitude of wanting to fight the best (rather then feeling the need to hide behind a protected record, and protect an 0).

[Jimbo]

Scurla has always been a Calzaghe and Hatton hater..so its hard to take his posts seriously.



Not wanting to speak for Scurla but I'm sure he and many other Hatton/Calzaghe haters would say that they haven't always hated them but have done since the periods when they spent years fighting guys with no chance of beating them.

[Beeston Brawler]

I think picking up a loss can do you the world of good, in a strange way.

The obsession with remaining undefeated is killing boxing, encouraging ducking, hiding behind titles and mismatches.

[JonOli]

I agree.

[Jimbo]

I wonder if picking up a loss early on helped with his resume progress - and contributes to his attitude of wanting to fight the best (rather then feeling the need to hide behind a protected record, and protect an 0).

I think he already had that attitude given that he was taking on Thompson is his 11th fight.