George Foreman claims he trapped Moorer. Do you believe him?

[Shake]

After careful deliberation and rewatching the fight, I do.

Jim Lampley asked George before the fight how on Earth he thought he was going to win -- Moorer was faster, younger and had beaten Holyfield. george answered: 'Just watch, in the late rounds, he'll come stand in front of me.'

Foreman claims he hit Moorer with half power during the first eight rounds, deliberately convincing the young man he could trade with, and then making him comfortable with the idea. Atlas warned Moorer all through the fight that George was setting him up for something repeatedly. In what would be the final round, Moorer was standing in front of George with no fear, and Foreman unleashed a jab with an immediate balanced right hand behind it. Foreman thought for a second his plan didn't work. He'd caught him square on the forehead and Moorer was still standing. (Later Moorer would testify that he was out on his feet from this point on) George then lowered his aim and tried again, with amazing success. Moorer was counted out and George became the heavyweight champion of the world.

Sounds like a complete load of bull? I dunno. The fact that Atlas could see it gives it a lot of credibility in my opinion, and the fact remains that George was very intelligent and savvy in his second career.

I'm buying it!

[shelterr]

I also believe it. I think Foreman knew that if Moorer tasted his power early he would smartly box his way to a decision (ala Tommy Morrison). He also must have had a sense of Moorer's attitude about wanting respect, which would allow for this strategy to work. Moorer had been down twice against Bert Cooper and once against Holy, so Foreman knew that his chin was not rock solid, and Foreman hits harder than both of those men. This was the only plan that would work, and it did.

[Russell]

I believe it completely, to be honest.

[DamonD]

Just to be an anal killjoy here, it was the 10th round...and it was a 12-round contest, so it wasn't the last round.

Shutting up now, sir.

[jackiebrown]

i think it ment it was the final round of the fight

[Shake]

No problem. I didn't know 'would be' was faulty there, though. I mean, Foreman knocked the guy out, so it was the final round. 'Turned out to be' would probably have been clearer.

[josak]

This is from the same guy who claims he was drugged during the Ali fight. Sounds like bs, but what do I know.

[The Master]

Foreman's a pretty smart fighter. He tested Holyfield and found him to be too sturdy. He knew he would have a much greater chance with Moorer. He had a gameplan.
I believe now that Moorer's win over Holyfield was somewhat of a fluke. I think he knew that right away.
Moorer's first defense was Foreman. He was ready. Maybe a little lucky.

[AnthonyJ74]

It sounds like bull to me. But, you never know. George hit Moorer hard in the head a few times early in the fight, and Moorer didn't go anywhere. The right hand that George landed in the second round against Moorer was fast, straight and sharp; it backed Moorer up, but Moorer came right back with his own right. George also nailed Moorer with a big right hand in the 8th round. Watching the fight live back in 94, I was as shocked as anyone when Moorer went down. The punch didn't look all that hard, but Moorer dropped like he had been shot. It would have been interesting to see Moorer get up from that punch. Would George have been fast enough to put Moorer away?

[Maxmomer]

I do.

[Ted Stickles]

Very well could be true.....

[torchkit]

I believe now that Moorer's win over Holyfield was somewhat of a fluke. Well, yeah...Holyfield had a heart attack in the 2nd round and still managed to go the distance. :D

[Beebs]

Well, I believe he went in there with the gameplan to knock him out with a straight right.

It's an old, monstrous puncher, who stood no chance of winning a decision really, against a southpaw...what other strategy is there gonna be?

[mr. magoo]

I believe anything and everything George says. That's why I own two of his grills.

[Marciano Frazier]

Absolutely. You can see him looking like he's doing this in some of his other fights, too. He'll throw some light, pushing shots until that's all his opponent is expecting, then unleash a bonecrusher and put them down. He just did a more extreme version against Moorer by more or less keeping his power entirely at bay for most of the fight in order to lull him into complacency.

[Vantage_West]

Well, I believe he went in there with the gameplan to knock him out with a straight right.

It's an old, monstrous puncher, who stood no chance of winning a decision really, against a southpaw...what other strategy is there gonna be?:good exactly thats what i though he didnt go in there to get the shit beaten out of him.

he didnt trap him he just knew that a right hand was going to finish the fight if he could land it...he by no means planned it he didnt think he could land a right hand in the later rounds.he just foudn an opening and dropped it.

i personally feel george was saying that becuase he was totally outsmarted against ali. he wanted to look the smarter/wisr man that night and said oh i planned it.

[Lex]

Yup, I believe George. I've watched that fight several times and it's pretty obvious he made adjustments from previous fights specifically for this match against Moorer. Not just because Moorer was a southpaw, but it was pretty well known he didn't have the best chin.

As a TV commentator Foreman often said that during his comeback he'd mix up lighter shots with heavy both to conserve energy and as a strategy. "Just keep touching 'em, don't load up." You can see him doing that against Moorer, just reaching out and pawing with that jab both as a rangefinder and to fend off Moorer's jab.

A boxing writer (I think it was for SI) said he'd noticed a change in Foreman's disposition before and during the Moorer fight. Foreman ver. 2 had, up 'til then, been seen as a jovial fellow right up to the fight and had given up the evil scowling staredown. He was also a much smarter boxer. Against Moorer, Foreman looked inscrutable, resolute.

I believe he had a plan. It didn't look like it was going well, up 'til the KO. But he didn't seem to be floundering, as he had against Holyfield.

BTW, anybody notice how Moorer's story has changed over the years? On some occasions he's admitted that he was stunned earlier and doesn't remember much after that. During other interviews he's denied that and given no credence to Foreman's "plan," despite his own corner's warnings.

[red cobra]

I believe it, and it makes perfect sense to me. In the seventies, the younger Foreman would have exterminated Moorer in one or two rounds, but the older version needed to be a bit foxier and be more patient. A friend of mine, who wasn't , in my opinion, too boxing savvy, said he though the fight was a fix, because that 10th round knockout shot didn't look too hard to him. He was used to those overly dramatic, unrealistic type blows usually seen in a Rocky movie, and he didn't realize that in real live boxing, some times a great knockout blow can look unspectacular, and even casual as it lands. Foreman was like a big, strong heavyweight version of Archie Moore that night against Moorer, and after he lulled MM to sleep, and had him convinced that the old man was nothing special, he dropped that knockout drop on him. Beautifully done, and Big George's ko masterpiece by the way.

[achillesthegreat]

Fuck yeah. No one who has watched that fight would say it was a simple case of he got beaten up for 9 rounds then got lucky.

Foreman was landing that right like Lionel Richie ALL NIGHT LONG! He had the guard up, he was putting the jab out there, the left hooks to the body. Not only that but Moorer was in front of him, moving into his right hand, trying to take advantage of the old man.

Atlas told him it all in the corner but Moorer would never listen. Stop moving into his right hand Atlas told him, Moorer spent most of the fight going into it. I think there were one, maybe two rounds where Moorer stopped going into the right.

Look at the ko, it isn't one punch. Foreman lands a right hand, adjusts it and then boom. Its not like he just through another right hand and hoped, Moorer had been slowed down and was there to be hit.

The only reason he took ten rounds is because Foreman was old, slow and a shadow of his former self. But Foremans strength and power even at 50% of what it was is still THAT good! Just like Holmes jab. These guys had things that were SO good that even when old and diminished, they are still ringing bells. Yes Foreman and Holmes had to get smarter i.e. pacing themself but they got old.

Foreman isn't going to beat Moorer on youth i.e. scoring, winning rounds with quick fire combos, making him miss etc This isn't the amateurs though, this is the pros and by that stage Foreman was smart enough to know we got 12 rounds in front of us. He said it to Lampley, something like at some point in the fight he'll be in front of me just long enough for me to put him to sleep.

Moorer is lucky legendary nights came out because he got a chance to make some believe the punch was lucky.

I think it might be a little like Serge v Briggs. Briggs is way behind but right hands are landing all night, by the time the ko comes, it isn't luck that put him away, its 11 rounds of work.

[Quick Cash]

I believe it, and it makes perfect sense to me. In the seventies, the younger Foreman would have exterminated Moorer in one or two rounds, but the older version needed to be a bit foxier and be more patient. A friend of mine, who wasn't , in my opinion, too boxing savvy, said he though the fight was a fix, because that 10th round knockout shot didn't look too hard to him. He was used to those overly dramatic, unrealistic type blows usually seen in a Rocky movie, and he didn't realize that in real live boxing, some times a great knockout blow can look unspectacular, and even casual as it lands. Foreman was like a big, strong heavyweight version of Archie Moore that night against Moorer, and after he lulled MM to sleep, and had him convinced that the old man was nothing special, he dropped that knockout drop on him. Beautifully done, and Big George's ko masterpiece by the way.

Yeah, I agree with the general sentiment of this post. Big George definitely set this man up. He got him complacent late in the fight, and just nailed him with the perfect powershot straight down the middle.

However, I do disagree with the comment regarding the seventies incarnation having his way with Moorer more easily. I'm one of the few here that will say that Foreman II was an improvement over the younger, greener version. The George of the nineties at least exhibited a semblance of ring savvy; he was postured more defensively, was more well-paced, and had a sense of strategy.

[Shake]

No, I really believe a young Foreman would have walked through Moorer as if he was paper. He wasn't a natural heavyweight, though his punch had some fooled, and Foreman used to have his way with smaller men.

[achillesthegreat]

Totally agree. Foreman sparks Moorer inside a round, two when Moorer has a good night.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I don't think he planned it myself, I think he dreamed it might turn out that way maybe.







:lol: :lol: :lol: Laughing at the suggestion that Moorer beats peak Foreman.

[Quick Cash]

No, I really believe a young Foreman would have walked through Moorer as if he was paper. He wasn't a natural heavyweight, though his punch had some fooled, and Foreman used to have his way with smaller men.

Nah, I don't see it like that at all. :lol:

I'd hate to turn up the controversy in a pretty one-sided thread so far, but, to me personally, the younger George Foreman was unimpressive to say the least; far, far from great. He was a monstruous slugger, oh yeah, no doubt. But if you take more than a cursory look at his fights, it's obvious he was pretty much clueless in the ring. His two best performances came when Frazier and Norton basically put their faces into the line of fire.

For a comparative analysis, watch him miss against the likes of Miguel Paez and Faustino Pires, and then later hit his target repeatedly in fights with Gerry Cooney and Bert Cooper. The Paez bout happened not two fights before his annihilation of Smokin' Joe and yet he was missing like an amatuer.

[Shake]

Styles make fights -- he may have had more trouble in some matches than in others, and of a different kind than most boxers, but he did win consistently. His record speaks for itself -- and putting away Frazier and Norton early seals. He had many flaws and many qualities, most flaws being technical and fundamental and most qualities being physical.

[Shake]

I think George excelled when he met fighters who were used to fight exclusively going forward -- and had trouble with fighters adept at boxing backwards -- but still, he won those matches. Even Ali found out in the first round of the Rumble match that trying to evade Foreman came with a price.

[Beebs]

What the hell is there to doubt? He planned to knock Moorer, a smaller southpaw, the fuck out with a straight right, the best weapon available against a southpaw, especially when you are George Foreman.

The way George planned it, was for it to happen as soon as fucking possible, the man is not stupid or a masochist, so why on Earth would getting the piss beat out of him for 8 rounds or so be part of any plan or trapping?

He did exactly what he wanted, but he didn't under any circumstances do it as soon as he would have liked to.

[Shake]

Possible. In that case he rewrote history after the fact.

[Quick Cash]

Styles make fights -- he may have had more trouble in some matches than in others, and of a different kind than most boxers, but he did win consistently. His record speaks for itself -- and putting away Frazier and Norton early seals. He had many flaws and many qualities, most flaws being technical and fundamental and most qualities being physical.

I think George excelled when he met fighters who were used to fight exclusively going forward -- and had trouble with fighters adept at boxing backwards -- but still, he won those matches. Even Ali found out in the first round of the Rumble match that trying to evade Foreman came with a price.

Uh, yeah. I don't disagree with you.

[Shake]

That's good to hear. Most people argue for the sake of argument. It seems we have the same view of Foreman, and merely agree to disagree on the fantasy matchup with Moorer.

s'Been a pleasure, sir. :)

[Amsterdam]

He got lucky, nobody wants to take a beating for 10 rounds prior.

[cross_trainer]

Nah, I don't see it like that at all. :lol:

I'd hate to turn up the controversy in a pretty one-sided thread so far, but, to me personally, the younger George Foreman was unimpressive to say the least; far, far from great. He was a monstruous slugger, oh yeah, no doubt. But if you take more than a cursory look at his fights, it's obvious he was pretty much clueless in the ring. His two best performances came when Frazier and Norton basically put their faces into the line of fire.

For a comparative analysis, watch him miss against the likes of Miguel Paez and Faustino Pires, and then later hit his target repeatedly in fights with Gerry Cooney and Bert Cooper. The Paez bout happened not two fights before his annihilation of Smokin' Joe and yet he was missing like an amatuer.
Devil's advocate time...

Perhaps the 70's heavyweights were simply better than their counterparts in the 90's. If so, Foreman and Holmes succeeded in the 90's despite their age because they came from a larger talent pool of fighters in a superior era. You can explain Foreman's fumbles against Young and Lyle as the inevitable result of a higher class of opposition compared to his 90's foes.

[MAG1965]

I don't buy it. He is lucky Moorer had weak stamina and chin. He lost 2 of the 3 title fights he had in his second career, and Moorer was swelling him up. He kept throwing and Moorer's chin did not hold up .Simple as that. Moorer should have stayed at lightheavyweight where his power made him very dominant. He would have been great had he stayed there. But at heavyweight he was not great at all.

[Azzer85]

You could say Foreman took a page from Ali from RITJ, he took his punishment, waited for the right moment and then when his opponent wasnt expecting it....BOOM

[The Wanderer]

To a certain degree, sure. I've said for awhile that Foreman came in prepared for a long game, and all you have have to do to see that is watch the first round. Usually when a hard hitting fighter with little chance to win faces a quicker and/or younger opponent, what does he try to do? Rush the other guy in the early going, hope to catch him cold and KO him.

What did Foreman do in the first round? Practically nothing but jab. I think Foreman sensed the vulnerability in Moorer, but paced himself and waited for his opportunity to come together. He probably didn't think that it would take as long as it did or that he would take as much punishment as he did along the way, but in the late rounds when Moorer wasn't fresh anymore and wasn't inclined to make Foreman chase him, (which George hated doing) Foreman turned the heat up.

And, as others have said before, it wasn't like it was just one punch out of nowhere or even two 1-2 sequences, Foreman was coming after Moorer the entire 10th round and he had tried to do the same thing earlier in the 8th when he staggered Moorer early there. Compare how active and free he is with his power punches in the 8th and 10th versus the 1st or 2nd, and it's like night and day.

That said, I don't think Foreman did anything as elaborate as deliberately punching with less power in the early going. But I do think he always figured on taking Moorer in the mid to late rounds.

[he grant]

Of course he did ... Foreman was cagey and had a strategy .. he did not just blindly throw punches like in the 70's .. he was all about execution ... if he got lucky it was because Moore was overconfident and made a mistake that allowed George to succeed.

[Bill1234]

Yes, I believe he trapped him. Atlas obviously thought Foreman was planning to do the same because the whole strategy he developed for Moorer was to watch out for a sneaky right being set up by a light left.

But, like an idiot, Moorer ignored what Teddy told him to do and he went out, stood infront of Foreman, was blinded by the pawing jab and was knocked out by the right.

Was Foreman planning on doing it in the 10th round? Probably not. He'd have done it earlier if he could have. He was more than likely looking to do it ASAP, but the moment he was looking for didn't come until the 10th round.

[lefthook31]

I believe George was trying to land a specific shot by moving and positioning himself a certain way but I don't believe he took a 10 round beatdown to lull Moorer to sleep so he could land that shot. Foreman had a plan it just took a while for Moorer to get cocky enough to stand still long enough for Foreman to land.
The thing is Moorers corner saw it and most saw it but Moorer was too stupid to listen. It wasn't anything complicated to avoid that's why George struggled with guys who were far more limited, but understood how to beat him.

[red cobra]

George relied a little bit more on guile the second time around...in fact he never before relied on guile...but I think he did vs Moorer...I believe him all right.

[klompton]

if foreman trapped him it was with a large payoff by bob arum...

[Seamus]

Foreman was softening up Moorer with his jab for a few rounds. It really was a thundering jab and I think it took a lot of game out of Moorer. Moorer was also staying right in front of him rather than moving away from that right hand.

[Bill1234]

I believe George was trying to land a specific shot by moving and positioning himself a certain way but I don't believe he took a 10 round beatdown to lull Moorer to sleep so he could land that shot. Foreman had a plan it just took a while for Moorer to get cocky enough to stand still long enough for Foreman to land.
The thing is Moorers corner saw it and most saw it but Moorer was too stupid to listen. It wasn't anything complicated to avoid that's why George struggled with guys who were far more limited, but understood how to beat him.

I'm pretty sure it was even going into the round Moorer was knocked out in Atlas reminded him to watch out for what Foreman was doing and remember what they worked on in training. Moorer proceeded to completely blow Atlas off and get knocked out.

[prime]

As Nixon said of Reagan during Iran-contra: "I believe him."

[Longhhorn71]

Ingo did he same thing to Patterson with his "Toonder".

With Moorer being a southpaw, it took a lot longer to get the plan to a point where George could throw "the" punch.

Yes, I believe it.

[lefthook31]

]I'm pretty sure it was even going into the round[/b] Moorer was knocked out in Atlas reminded him to watch out for what Foreman was doing and remember what they worked on in training. Moorer proceeded to completely blow Atlas off and get knocked out.
not even close
83-88
83-88
85-86 This guy must of been blind.

[Bill1234]

not even close
83-88
83-88
85-86 This guy must of been blind.

Not what I meant. I know Moorer was dominating. When I said "even" I was saying it as a way to say "also."

Using the word "also," the sentence should read:
I'm pretty sure it was also going into the round that Moorer was knocked out in that Atlas reminded him to watch out for what Foreman was doing and remember what they worked on in training.

[Unforgiven]

Obviously he trapped Moorer.
I don't think this is even debatable. George wasn't throwing punches only hoping to outpoint Moorer, and he wasn't accidentally throwing punches.
No such thing as a "lucky punch", certainly not when you're a puncher of Foreman's reputation.

[lefthook31]

Not what I meant. I know Moorer was dominating. When I said "even" I was saying it as a way to say "also."

Using the word "also," the sentence should read:
I'm pretty sure it was also going into the round that Moorer was knocked out in that Atlas reminded him to watch out for what Foreman was doing and remember what they worked on in training.
Atlas was telling Moorer for about four or five rounds to stop moving into Georges power shot. Moorer didnt listen. He would start moving the right way for a about 30 seconds and then fall right back into moving into Foremans righthand. George really only had one way of winning and he got the opening and landed the shot. Kudos to Foreman for hanging in there and taking the beating he did.
Foreman was mentally a lot tougher in his second career, he had to be, or he would have never gotten past the Stewart fight.

[wrimc]

Yes ive heard George say he altered his strategy and started to jab much lighter because he was finding that his jab was to strong and pushing the fighterts head back too far for him to effectively follow through with the right. So to some extent you could say Moorer fell into the trap