James Toney vs. Mike Tyson, who wins?

[Canibus81]

The James Toney who fought Holyfield vs. lets say the Tyson from the 2nd Holyfield fight. Who you got?

[newbridgeboxing]

Tyson would take Toney out !! Toney is a Fat Middleweight, and one punch from Iron Mike would spell disaster! I say Tyson KO2

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[Luigi1985]

Toney above 160 lbs is so overrated here that it isn´t funny anymore. What´s next, a fantasy matchup against Ali? I take Tyson by a brutal KO in the midrounds...

[GoldenChild]

Tyson punches a hole through Toneys head.

[Vanboxingfan]

Yup, one slided slaughter, great defense or not, Toney's history. He's simply too small to cause Tyson any serious problems.

[SteveO]

Tyson is one of a few people who I would pick to KO Toney.

[rekcutnevets]

Holyfield bullied Toney to the ropes, and appeared to be too strong for Toney in the first round of their fight. Toney took a similar fight over a round later. Holyfield was lucky if he won a round after the first, before being stopped.

Toney was visibly moved in the first round of the Holyfield fight. I think Toney would be visibly in trouble against Tyson with the same game plan. If the fight could make it past the 6th, I would pick Toney with little more than ease. I don't think this fight would see round 3. Tyson would just bull Toney, and take him out.

[good right hand]

i think tyson would physically try to move toneys arms to create space for his body shots. tysons uppercuts and handspeed would deffinetely be a factor too.

[FromWithin]

Tyson by brutal KO

[BlackWater]

Any version of Tyson by decapitation

[Canibus81]

Toney has said that he would have beaten Tyson any day of the week. Tyson in his prime would have caused problems, but Tyson post-prison was made for a guy like Toney. Toney had a great chin and would take Tyson deep into the later rounds. I think we should all agree that chances lean favorably towards this fight going into the later rounds. In which case, Toney assumes the upperhand as Toney gets stronger as the fight progresses and as is most certainly true; Tyson gets weaker the longer the fight goes. So going by this basis I can say that Toney would likely last the distance.

I can't see any real argument saying he wouldn't other than a freak punch stopping him early. However because Toney had a great defense and a great beard this is not very likely.

We must all also consider that Toney worked better inside while Mike was a more dangerous mid-range fighter. Tyson was explosive at mid-range but on the inside he usually smothered himself either wrapping into a clinch or just throwing the single punch between long spaces of inactivity. Toney would clearly be the boss on the inside and even moreso later in the fight.

I would pick Toney by dec actually. We can all look to the post-prison's Tyson's frustrations with Holyfield's ability to defend adeptly from Mike's initial attack, take him deep, and gradually take over. Toney would do the same thing but in lacking Holyfield's punch, would simply take a willing and visibly uninspired, tiring Tyson down the stretch on points.


When analyzing this fight in its full scope, I can really only see Tyson winning by a freak one-punch KO early. The chances of the opposite happening far outweigh this however.


Good post. I think this would happened as well. A prime Tyson I would pick over Toney but 96 Tyson is different story.

[Sweet Pea]

:lol:

[Sweet Pea]

Toney has said that he would have beaten Tyson any day of the week. Tyson in his prime would have caused problems, but Tyson post-prison was made for a guy like Toney. Toney had a great chin and would take Tyson deep into the later rounds. I think we should all agree that chances lean favorably towards this fight going into the later rounds. In which case, Toney assumes the upperhand as Toney gets stronger as the fight progresses and as is most certainly true; Tyson gets weaker the longer the fight goes. So going by this basis I can say that Toney would likely last the distance.

I can't see any real argument saying he wouldn't other than a freak punch stopping him early. However because Toney had a great defense and a great beard this is not very likely.

We must all also consider that Toney worked better inside while Mike was a more dangerous mid-range fighter. Tyson was explosive at mid-range but on the inside he usually smothered himself either wrapping into a clinch or just throwing the single punch between long spaces of inactivity. Toney would clearly be the boss on the inside and even moreso later in the fight.

I would pick Toney by dec actually. We can all look to the post-prison's Tyson's frustrations with Holyfield's ability to defend adeptly from Mike's initial attack, take him deep, and gradually take over. Toney would do the same thing but in lacking Holyfield's punch, would simply take a willing and visibly uninspired, tiring Tyson down the stretch on points.


When analyzing this fight in its full scope, I can really only see Tyson winning by a freak one-punch KO early. The chances of the opposite happening far outweigh this however.Proof that length of a post does not equal quality.

[ChrisPontius]

The fact that people are picking lightheavyweights who lose to Drake Thadzi over Tyson goes to show you how deluded some of Toney's fans are. :patsch

[KOTF]

Toney finds his shoulder in the 18th row after this one

[HENDO]

Styles make fights. Toney would be a very tough fight for Tyson. He COULD win a UD, especially since we are talking about the POST PRISON Tyson.

[Silver]

and what exactly has toney done at hw to make any of you think he has a legit shot at beating tyson(albeit a post prison version)?is it beating guys like ruiz, guinn, booker, or his performances againt peter and rahman?

[klompton]

when i first saw this i thought it was Tyson vs toney in a pie eating contest. both these guys need to hit jenny craig these days.

[HENDO]

and what exactly has toney done at hw to make any of you think he has a legit shot at beating tyson(albeit a post prison version)?is it beating guys like ruiz, guinn, booker, or his performances againt peter and rahman?

What about Holyfield?

[Silver]

What about Holyfield?
what about holyfield? ifn you're talking about toney performance against him, well toney performed well against holyfield, as did larry donald and chris byrd.

[janitor]

Depleted though the post proson Tyson was, there were not that many fighters around who could have beaten him.

It would probably still have required certain physical parities or advantages.

[Silver]

Depleted though the post proson Tyson was, there were not that many fighters around who could have beaten him.

It would probably still have required certain physical parities or advantages.
you are absolutely correct and 5'10" former mw in toney dosent seem to posses the those qualtites you are alluding to. whatcha think?

[Jaws]

Tyson of Holyfield 2 was in excellent physical shape. He looked to be in the best shape of his post-prison career actually. He trained hard for that fight, he was just too mentally unstable at that point (he had just had a good round when he lost it).

Tyson by horrific KO. If there was any fighter who had the style to blow through naturally smaller guys, it was Tyson. Toney wouldn't be able to hurt Tyson either. Tyson would be able to wade through Toney's offense and blast him out.

[lefthook31]

The fact that people are picking lightheavyweights who lose to Drake Thadzi over Tyson goes to show you how deluded some of Toney's fans are. :patsch
That same guy beat Holyfield. Tyson was a technical mess, and Toney would have exploited his mistakes like Buster Mathis did, but Tyson punched very hard and Toney would be there to hit. Hard to say, but I would pick this version over Tyson after the Lewis fight all day long.

[Blood Green]

Toney one way or another. He'd present the same problems as Buster Mathis Jr. except he was thoroughly better than that guy. Tyson's uppercut could be an x factor, but I tend to think Toney would avoid it well enough.

[djanders]

In my opinion, Tyson would build a lead in the early and middle rounds but Toney would barely survive a round 2 knockdown and actually start to come on in the late rounds...but Tyson would do enough to win the 12 round decision.

[he grant]

This Tyson flattens Toney ...

[BUDW]

The fact that people are picking lightheavyweights who lose to Drake Thadzi over Tyson goes to show you how deluded some of Toney's fans are. :patsch
Danny Williams,Kevin McBride LOL

[lefthook31]

Danny Williams,Kevin McBride LOL
Well the TS did say 96 version which was a bit better than the Williams McBride Tyson

[ATP]

when i first saw this i thought it was Tyson vs toney in a pie eating contest. both these guys need to hit jenny craig these days.





:yep

Believe it or not Tyson has slimmed down again.....he looked ok on RAW 2mnths ago.....



Getting Technical i think 95-97 Tyson beats Toney with ease......after that Iron Mike became Mellow mike...i wasnt happy with his performances against Botha,Golota, Savarese etc And the Mcbride Tyson was a disgrace :patsch

[Stevie G]

The James Toney who fought Holyfield vs. lets say the Tyson from the 2nd Holyfield fight. Who you got?
Tyson within 5 rounds.

[Popkins]

The James Toney who fought Holyfield vs. lets say the Tyson from the 2nd Holyfield fight. Who you got?

Toney UD. Tyson was a busted flush by then, as soon as he realized he couldn't just club Toney into submission he would run out of steam and ideas, and after eating clean counters for a few rounds, he'd mentally submit and allow himself to be outboxed for the duration. Toney's defence and chin would hold strong. They did against a prime Sam Peter, who was not all that far behind the second coming of Tyson in terms of power.

If 1987 Tyson fights any version of Toney, it's an early KO. But 1997 Tyson was outrageously inferior to prime Iron Mike. He was a shot fighter who was fed a steady diet of bums before he folded in the face of the first genuine challenge since his release from prison. Toney would beat him mentally then physically.

[Unforgiven]

Toney was actually pretty good against Holyfield.

Yeah, I know Holyfield was 40 years old and hindered by an injury but it was still an impressive performance - better than Haye's recent victory over Ruiz, for example, that had everyone raving about him.

Having said that, Tyson was still a force in '96 and he looked in great shape in '97 when he bit Holyfield.
I think he'd be too much for Toney.

Having said that, Mathis Jr. gave Tyson problem for 2 or 3 rounds, and Toney could do what Mathis did but better, and he's about the same size. So, Toney might give Tyson problems for a few rounds, but in the end I expect Tyson would get through with something damaging.

[Bill Butcher]

Tyson after jail isnt a good bet vs anyone.... Tyson before jail tho (except for the Douglas fight) is a good bet vs anyone.

Toney wouldnt be allowed in the same arena vs this Tyson & Toney would make sure of that shit.

[Popkins]

Tyson after jail isnt a good bet vs anyone.... Tyson before jail tho (except for the Douglas fight) is a good bet vs anyone.

Toney wouldnt be allowed in the same arena vs this Tyson & Toney would make sure of that shit.

As a fat 40+ year old with no experience in martial arts, Toney is going to the UFC to fight big names in their heavyweight division. He regularly calls out the 6ft 7in 240lbs Klitschko brothers, and I see no reason to believe he wouldn't fight them if he had the chance, he's already been in with a prime Sam Peter and Hasim Rahman, who were both far bigger and more powerful than him.

There is no reason to say Toney would fear anyone or avoid anyone. It doesn't stack up, because it is a far more dangerous and intimidating prospect for a boxer to fight a top MMA fighter in an MMA bout than it is for a boxer to fight another boxer, even a fearsome and fantastic one like prime Mike.

1987 Tyson crushes Toney at heavyweight, there can be no doubt about that, but to say Toney would make sure he avoided him cannot be substantiated. The man is fearless to the point of insanity!

[Duodenum]

Peter was going to destroy Toney. I don't feel comfortable projecting a stoppage win over somebody that never came close to being halted in 83 fights past the age of 40, and was only dropped when caught off balance. Can Mike beat him over the distance? Because I think this one would last the scheduled limit.

Like Frazier, I don't think Tyson was particularly fond of dealing with shorter opponents, although he certainly had the uppercut necessary for dealing with most of them. Toney had the defense to steer clear of that weapon though, and I suspect he'd actually be more comfortable in this pairing.

[Ted Spoon]

Not enough faith is being put into Toney's defence and chin.

Toney started as a middleweight, but before that he was a 200lbs quarterback. Why is it though that we need numbers to reassure us? Some fighters, regardless of weight can compete with anyone, as Toney proved.

If Tyson cannon-balled Toney's head it surely could rock him, but can we then go the whole nine yards because it is Tyson and favour that against the evidence - so many years of never being down, even hurt?

To say that Toney would give the dynamic, yet often predictable and prone to frustration, post-prison Tyson a bit of a waltz is a claim Ted Spoon could make comfortably.

[PetethePrince]

Toney UD. Tyson was a busted flush by then, as soon as he realized he couldn't just club Toney into submission he would run out of steam and ideas, and after eating clean counters for a few rounds, he'd mentally submit and allow himself to be outboxed for the duration. Toney's defence and chin would hold strong. They did against a prime Sam Peter, who was not all that far behind the second coming of Tyson in terms of power.

If 1987 Tyson fights any version of Toney, it's an early KO. But 1997 Tyson was outrageously inferior to prime Iron Mike. He was a shot fighter who was fed a steady diet of bums before he folded in the face of the first genuine challenge since his release from prison. Toney would beat him mentally then physically.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Tyson hadn't fallen quite as much as most proclaim. He was far from shot.

Jirov is much smaller and much less skilled and doesn't hit nearly as hard. Yes, Jirov had heart and a workrate. Sam Peters is a gross overweight HW that hits hard but as much slower than Mike and even has inferior stamina. He has no where near the combination punching, head-movement, or skills of a Tyson from even 97. Toney barely edged Peters too which is the sad thing. Tyson would bust through Toney and Toney punches would have zero effect. There's no way he out-boxes him the duration with his fat, lazy, and low work-rate. Toney doesn't have the work-rate or strength to keep Tyson off.

[Quitali Bitchko]

when i first saw this i thought it was Tyson vs toney in a pie eating contest. both these guys need to hit jenny craig these days.

This is Tysons latest picture (2 days ago):

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If anything he's too thin.

[Azzer85]

Tyson of Holyfield 2 was in excellent physical shape. He looked to be in the best shape of his post-prison career actually. He trained hard for that fight, he was just too mentally unstable at that point (he had just had a good round when he lost it).

Tyson by horrific KO. If there was any fighter who had the style to blow through naturally smaller guys, it was Tyson. Toney wouldn't be able to hurt Tyson either. Tyson would be able to wade through Toney's offense and blast him out.

Exactly...everyone knows Tyson had problems with big guys and ONLY bigger guys...everyone else he just blew away

[kinski]

Tyson by ko.

[Vantage_West]

i think toney could make the distance....thats the most controverisal i could make it

[sugarsean]

1995-1997 Tyson is underated, from 1998 onwards a absolute shell, but from 95 to 97 Tyson was faded but still the best heavyweight in the world next Holyfield in my opinion, he just ran into a great fighter in Holyfield, I think Holyfield would even beats a peak Tyson.

Tyson by easy KO over Toney

[ironchamp]

Toney UD. Tyson was a busted flush by then, as soon as he realized he couldn't just club Toney into submission he would run out of steam and ideas, and after eating clean counters for a few rounds, he'd mentally submit and allow himself to be outboxed for the duration. Toney's defence and chin would hold strong. They did against a prime Sam Peter, who was not all that far behind the second coming of Tyson in terms of power.

If 1987 Tyson fights any version of Toney, it's an early KO. But 1997 Tyson was outrageously inferior to prime Iron Mike. He was a shot fighter who was fed a steady diet of bums before he folded in the face of the first genuine challenge since his release from prison. Toney would beat him mentally then physically.

This not only overrates Toney's ability at Heavweight it undermines quality of fighter that Mike Tyson was. And by extension it undermines Evander Holyfield's greatest accomplishment at Heavweight.

First off, Toney wouldn't be able to take Tyson's power.
Secondly, Toney doesn't have the workrate to keep Tyson occupied.

And you seem to call him shot when in fact he was still a good fighter in 1997. Losing to a fellow ATG doesn't make you shot.

I thought this thread was a joke initially but clearly there are some radical opinions.

[duran duran]

Absolutely ridiculous.

Tyson hadn't fallen quite as much as most proclaim. He was far from shot.

Jirov is much smaller and much less skilled and doesn't hit nearly as hard. Yes, Jirov had heart and a workrate. Sam Peters is a gross overweight HW that hits hard but as much slower than Mike and even has inferior stamina. He has no where near the combination punching, head-movement, or skills of a Tyson from even 97. Toney barely edged Peters too which is the sad thing. Tyson would bust through Toney and Toney punches would have zero effect. There's no way he out-boxes him the duration with his fat, lazy, and low work-rate. Toney doesn't have the work-rate or strength to keep Tyson off.i think tyson was shot in 97 he had slipped so far from his prime it was a joke he looked in great shape for the 2nd holyfield fight but so did bowe against golota in there 2nd fight and no one doubts bowe was shot by then why not tyson for starters tyson had a young mans style and had 4 years out the ring by then 3 of them in prison and as reckless as bowe lived it was nothing compared to tyson i think toney beats post prison tyson peak tyson blows him out in a couple of rounds :smooch

[FROST]

what about holyfield? ifn you're talking about toney performance against him, well toney performed well against holyfield, as did larry donald and chris byrd.

Toney did much better against Holyfield than both Chris Byrd and Larry Donald. I don't want to take anything away from Byrds and Donalds performances here, but where they (Byrd and Donald) ran and won boring decisions, Toney stood right in front of Evander and fought him to the punch, totally picked him apart and stopped him in round 9.

[FROST]

The fact that people are picking lightheavyweights who lose to Drake Thadzi over Tyson goes to show you how deluded some of Toney's fans are. :patsch

Toney is not just some lightheavyweight that lost to Drake Thadzi.
Just like Mike Tyson is not just some HW that lost to Buster Douglas.

Toney's an ATG who has 80+ pro fights, 600+ pro rounds against mostly good to great opposition from MW up to HW, never been stopped or being close to being stopped. Yeah he lost some fights he shouldn't have lost along the way, but if you look back at history, most ATGs have lost some.

[frankenfrank]

Toney above 160 lbs is so overrated here that it isn´t funny anymore. What´s next, a fantasy matchup against Ali? I take Tyson by a brutal KO in the midrounds...
toney is overrated at 168 ?
at 190 ?
even at HW , he fought a young and dangerous sam peter twice and wasn't stopped , hassim rahman and he wasn't stooped.
how is he overrated ?
roy jones beat him because toney was very much drained. a fight against a not drained toney would have ended very much differently .
unlike jones , toney fought very good fighters mostly in their prime age and weight. that's why so many of his fights were close ?
who did stop Reggie Johnson and Mike McCallum ?
Steve Collins ? Roy Jones himself ?
and that prime jones even fought much older and beaten versions of them also remotely from their best weights.
and you can also remind the Montell Griffin fights , how roy did against him ? and in the rematch , roy's team made sure griffin would not be allowed enough time to prepare.

jones and toney fought many mutual opponents and jones did much better against them , BUTT , he fought them after toney did when they were older and at higher weights toney fought them. typical roy jones matchmaking .

[sugarsean]

Toney did much better against Holyfield than both Chris Byrd and Larry Donald. I don't want to take anything away from Byrds and Donalds performances here, but where they (Byrd and Donald) ran and won boring decisions, Toney stood right in front of Evander and fought him to the punch, totally picked him apart and stopped him in round 9.

It does'nt matter in my opinion because Holyfield was completely shot when Toney got hold of him, he was past his best since 1999,

nothing against Toney great fighter got all his fights on DVD love watching him fight he's in my top 3 super - middleweights, but he came along at the right time in heavyweight, he would'nt of done well against the 90's heavyweights, he was at his best from middleweight to lightheavy.

[FROST]

The James Toney who fought Holyfield vs. lets say the Tyson from the 2nd Holyfield fight. Who you got?

A prime Tysons speed and combination punching would just have been too much for any version of Toney, that's clear.

But I think a focused, in shape Toney, like the one we saw against Holyfield, would win a decision against 1997 version of Tyson. And both men would have exactly the same weight, reach and height, ironically.

Post prison Tyson was still a good HW, but nothing compared to what he was prior to his imprisonment. He depended very much on his reputation and his punching power. Most of his opponents were still intimidated by him, because, after all, he was Mike Tyson, maybe even meaner and crazier than he was before prison, and of course because he was a KO artist - they feared his punching power.
Holyfield wasn't intimidated by Tyson, he didn't fear him at all, he was mentally stronger than Tyson and therefore he exposed him (Tyson).
Tyson, before prison, was a supreme athlete, but after prison he became a frontrunner and employed bully tactics. When those did not work, he couldn't rely on his skills anymore, like he could in the 80s, and he had to put his hopes in a KO.

Toney, when focused, is one of the toughest muthaf*ckers in boxing. His chin is granite, and he takes body punches well. He's mentally strong, and just like Holyfield, he would not be intimidated by Tyson. Not at all. With Tyson not being the most mentally stable guy, the psychological edge would be on Toneys side here. That has always been Tysons achilles heel, guys that would not crumble before him, take his best punch, stand up to him and give him a fight - this has been the case from Buster Douglas to Danny Williams. Given Toneys extraordinary defensive abilities, Tyson trying to bully Toney and KO him early would be fruitless.
Those thinking that Tyson could just plow through Toney and KO him easily are ignorant.
Tyson would have to settle for a boxing match then, in hopes to land that big punch (that he wouldn't land against Toney, at least not flush like he did against Botha, and even if he did, one punch wouldn't be enough to stop Toney). Power is the last thing to bother Toney with. By the middle rounds, Tysons lack of success and Toneys counterpunching would get to him (Tyson), and he would give up the fight in his mind already, perhaps trying to resort to dirty tactics. I can see a relaxed and focused Toney outboxing a frustrated Tyson from the middle rounds on, taking a decision.

[FROST]

It does'nt matter in my opinion because Holyfield was completely shot when Toney got hold of him, he was past his best since 1999,

nothing against Toney great fighter got all his fights on DVD love watching him fight he's in my top 3 super - middleweights, but he came along at the right time in heavyweight, he would'nt of done well against the 90's heavyweights, he was at his best from middleweight to lightheavy.

There is no doubt in my mind that Holyfield has been past his best since 1999, and probably even earlier than that. Arguably Holyfield was at his best as a CW.
But Holyfield is also a very durable guy, who still beat the (admittedly terrible) Valuev five years after he got stopped by Toney (we know that Holyfield should have got the decision against Valuev).
Of course Holyfield was 'past his best' when he fought Toney, he was maybe 70% of what he was at his peak, but he was not completely shot.
And he was also past his best when he faced Chris Byrd and Larry Donald, but Toney still did better against a 'past his best' Holyfield than Donald or Byrd did.

[Blood Green]

What exactly was the deal with Holyfield's shoulder? It was hurt badly for the Donald fight, right? But okay for Byrd and Toney? He didn't fight Toney like a guy with a hurt shoulder.

[FROST]

What exactly was the deal with Holyfield's shoulder? It was hurt badly for the Donald fight, right? But okay for Byrd and Toney? He didn't fight Toney like a guy with a hurt shoulder.

Holyfield said he had his shoulder injured against Toney and against Byrd too. Same thing with his Ibragimov, Moorer and Ruiz losses. Before these fights, he always said he's fine and it's all healed up.

[Realbad]

Tyson will win by deadly hand speed an hand power

[round15]

Toney was a natural middleweight, Tyson was a natural heavyweight. Based on this factor alone and Tyson's overall hand speed, I wouldn't give Toney more than 5 rounds if he lasts that long. Toney's head movement and inside fighting would score him some points against Tyson, but I don't think he has enough power to hurt Mike or slow him down.

Tyson by KO well inside 10 rounds, and that's being generous.