Chavez-Taylor I...Round 12

[Illmatic]

Hx8WQB_C2Hg

Fucking piece of shit Duva

[stillafan]

after this fight happened, AND we all now know the "great" extent of Meldirck Taylors inuries, you can make the argument that Richard Steele is a genius......the fractured face, stomach full of blood, possible brain damage thats very evident today.....the hospitalization......


Great video by the way!

[ChampionsForever]

Watched this the other day, damn shame what happened to Taylor, he deserved them 2 seconds.

[Sweet Pea Pacquiao]

Although I thought it was a bad stoppage, Duva screwed this up. He came out of the corner and yelled instructions at Taylor WHILE Steele was asking him if he was OK. Taylor hesitated by looking to his right, and Steele called the fight.

[Sweet Pea Pacquiao]

Does anyone know the scorecards at the time of the stoppage? Knowing Don King I wouldn't be surprised if they all favored Chavez.

[Jens S]

Dave Moretti 107-102 | judge: Chuck Giampa 104-105 | judge: Jerry Roth 108-101

Taylor was leading on two of the cards. Right decision by Steele.

Jens

[the_what]

Greatest fight ever. And best comeback ever. In any sport.

[Sweet Pea Pacquiao]

Giampa had Chavez AHEAD??? Shit.

[El Bombasto]

technically taylor wasn't fit to continue, and i can't think of any rule requiring the ref to take the clock into consideration when deciding whether a fighter is fit to continue, so you can make the argument that the stoppage was good

[El Bombasto]

Don is not corrupt. You wanna see some shady shenanigans, check out the first MAB-Juarez fight, and tell me about that Promotion.

so you think jaurez should have won that fight by a wide margin?

[My dinner with Conteh]

Does anyone know the scorecards at the time of the stoppage? Knowing Don King I wouldn't be surprised if they all favored Chavez.


If Taylor had been allowed thos two seconds and it went to the cards, two of them would have favoured Chavez by the time they'd been read out. :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

Watched this the other day, damn shame what happened to Taylor, he deserved them 2 seconds.


He did in my book. The stoppage wasn't so bad though but I'd have probably let it go on, ready to dive in if Mel hadn't responded when the action resumed. Funny thing is though, if Meldrick had earned the nod I think all the sympathy would then lie with Chavez- and a rematch would have been imminent, probably around Sep 1990 (which Julio would have won I think).

[El Bombasto]

No, but I had him ahead, and apparently so did the judges, until OScar gave them a "wink and a nod" and all of a sudden, MAB was still the man. Typical GBP Production.

source?

[Ramshall1]

The ref is not supposed to say, "I think you cannot fight on but theres only a few seconds and I think you deserve the win". Steele made the right call.

[buzzsaw]

I remember once that fight was made the talk on who would win and why. It was a toss up between the guys I watch the fights with. We looked forward to that fight and the bets were made. Man what a fight!! Right down to the end...and all hell broke out at the guys house we were at when they stopped it!

[DoumB]

This is the thing about the stoppage. You look at Taylor, he really doesnt look fit to continue. He just doesnt. And if you dont know the time in the round, and you let the guy go out like Taylor was, Steele wasnt kidding when he said no fight was worth a mans life. An then, I know the rules get broked all the time, but according to referee rules, when the fighter doesnt respond or make eye contact, he is supposed to stop the fight. And while the stoppage at the time was controlversial, Taylor was BROKEN after the fight, his body was literally destroyed.

excellent post, tho I think Taylor deserved this fight, the way it ended was rightfuly justfied. Chavez ruined Taylor in that fight even tho he was loosing

[Ramshall1]

That is the best argument i have ever heard. Pefefectly said Ramshall

thanks. :thumbsup

[SweetScienceFan]

It is very simple. Taylor didn't respond when asked if he was ok. What is the ref supposed to do? Just sit there with Taylor until the time runs off? There was actually 5 seconds left when Steele started waving his hands. What if he let Chavez in at him, and Taylor was hit with one more shot that killed him? Steele would have been blamed for his death.

[InHumanForm]

:yepIt is very simple. Taylor didn't respond when asked if he was ok. What is the ref supposed to do? Just sit there with Taylor until the time runs off? There was actually 5 seconds left when Steele started waving his hands. What if he let Chavez in at him, and Taylor was hit with one more shot that killed him? Steele would have been blamed for his death.

[stillafan]

Ramshall thats the best way you could have put it, i could not agree more:good

[Rock0052]

It is very simple. Taylor didn't respond when asked if he was ok. What is the ref supposed to do? Just sit there with Taylor until the time runs off? There was actually 5 seconds left when Steele started waving his hands. What if he let Chavez in at him, and Taylor was hit with one more shot that killed him? Steele would have been blamed for his death.

Considering I honestly think Taylor was only one more big shot away from ending up like Mclellan or worst, I agree with you 100%. It hurts to see Taylor like that now, but what would 2 or 3 more big shots (which is possible in 5 seconds) have done to him?

I give credit to Chavez for perseverence, and I put the blame on Duva for giving his fighter bad advice in the 12th, advice that completely ignored the fact that Taylor was getting punished, and jumping on the apron at the worst possible time.

[stillafan]

one more shot could have killed him!

[Asterion]

It was Duva's fault. He shouldn't have climbed to the side of the ring and shouldn't have yelled anything. It distracted an already confused Taylor, who didn't answer Steele's question.

Steele only did his job.

[Ramshall1]

How was it the right decision? The fight wouldn't have lasted 2 more seconds, Chavez wouldn't have even had time to throw one more punch. Taylor deserved that win, he earned it. Duva is such a fat fucking bum. He told Taylor he needed that last round to win and made him fight instead of mve like he was supposed to. And then he fucked him up by getting on the apron and distracting him. Fucking Duva!

And Chuck Giampa should've been fired and jailed for having Chavez ahead.

props to Meldrick for fighting like a man and not running like a little rabbit. He lost to the better man that night, no shame in that.

[PJ]

How can people say Taylor deserved that win? He was clearly f*cked the hell up at the end of 12 rounds and needless to say after the fight.

[Ramshall1]

I'm not arguing with you because you'll turn this into an argument about the fight where Whitaker badly schooled Chavez.

But no, in my opinion he didn't lose to the better man, his corner lost the fight for him.

:nut youre not making much sense.

"His corner lost the fight for him?" . . .thats one of the lamest excuses ever.

[PJ]

I'm not arguing with you because you'll turn this into an argument about the fight where Whitaker badly schooled Chavez.

But no, in my opinion he didn't lose to the better man, his corner lost the fight for him.


Nope, Taylor lost the fight all by his lonesome self. Just look at him at the end of 12 rounds.

[Ramshall1]

Sweat pea, you need to respond to this point. . .

The ref is not supposed to say, "I think you cannot fight on but theres only a few seconds and I think you deserve the win". Steele made the right call.

[stillafan]

Yeah but ultimately Every fighter knows that once that bell rings, its only them in there....no one else....There could have been 2 pornstars front row going at it trying to distract him for gods sake, but Meldrick still needed to tell Steele he was ok....he failed to do that....and now we know how beat up he really was....in the documentary the doctor said he was severely beat up...he was hospitalized with many injuries, he didnt look like he was fit to continue....only steele saw his eyes...the only Fact we know is that he was asked twice and didnt respond either time...good stoppage....i agree Duva messed up, but ultimately what was meldricks fault for not responding!....you watch any fight when a fighter goes down, the very firwt thing they do is look for the ref and say "im alright"....its almost reflex....the thing is that meldrick was drunk like from too many headshots and fractured face to do that....good stoppage

[Ramshall1]

They told him he needed that round when he could've gave it away 10-9 instead of being TKO'd.

he is the one in the ring and he fought the entire fight the same way, props to him for the courage but HE lost. . . its like when DLH tried to blame his corner for running from Tito for the last three rounds . . .No, it was his fault.

[stillafan]

Sweet pea, the reason your giving that he should have won is irrelevant....He didnt respond to the ref after being asked if he was ok.....doesnt matter if he raped julio for 11.5 rounds....the end of the fight is what matters in this case.....

[Zakman]

In my 30 years of watching the sport, this is one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen. I was outraged 17 years ago, and I'm still outraged. Steele was close to King, and he did him a favor again shortly after this in stopping the Tyson-Ruddock fight quickly.

[stillafan]

zakaman, what was he suppose to do ask Meldrick 5 times if he was ok?? ultimately it falls on Meldrick....what if Chavez would have ran over there and Gave him one more right hand....the ref is not suppose t say "man theres only 5 seconds left"....hes judging the fighter being fit to continue or not...and he chose not....and im sure the doctor at the hospital would agree....Meldrick was BEAT DOWN!

[SweetScienceFan]

He can't fight on? How so? He got KD'd once in the fight and got up after 3, he was clearly tired, but not out of it. He looked to his corner because Duva's fat stupid ass jumped up there, which is why he didn't respond to Steele.
Nonsense, that is an old excuse. Any boxer knows that you have to answer the ref when he asks you if you are ok. Looking over at your corner for advice isn't an excuse as to why you weren't able to answer the ref. All Taylor had to say was "I'm ok", or nod his head yes and move forward. The point is that Taylor was out of it, and Steele called the fight off just as he should have.

[stillafan]

Duva made mistakes i agree,m but ultimately its meldricks decision on what to do....he chose to stand his ground....watch the fight....even when Meldrick gets tagged and wobbled, he attachs chavez with more punches chosing to stand his ground instead of boxing more, or instead of clinching for rest....that mindset was his downfall...he shoce to try to bang and stand in front of a prime Chavez, and whoever paid his extensive hospital bills regrets it as much as Taylor!! big Mistake!

[SweetScienceFan]

It's an excuse, but just because it's an excuse doesn't mean it's not legitimate. He got up after 3 damn seconds and Duva's fat ass jumped up on the apron and distracted him. As soon as Steele called it off Taylor was like "WTF?", he was clearly not out of it.
He was on his feet by 5 almost 6, and that doesn't even matter. He could have got up at 1, and if he isn't responsive to the ref, then the fight is over. Taylor was out of it, and of course he was like "WTF?" just like all fighters are. Because they are confused and disoriented. Zab Judah was like "wtf" against Tszyu as well, while he was in the middle of doing the chicken dance.

[SweetScienceFan]

Let alone that everyone knows that a lot of times when a fighter doesn't answer the ref, and looks over to his corner, he is looking for mercy and a way out.

[Ramshall1]

He can't fight on? How so? He got KD'd once in the fight and got up after 3, he was clearly tired, but not out of it. He looked to his corner because Duva's fat stupid ass jumped up there, which is why he didn't respond to Steele.

the ref decided that he could not fight on . . .agreed, Duva was an idiot for jumping on the apron. . . maybe if he hadnt Meldrick would have responded. . . but the ref cant say. . .OK your not responding after taking a beating because that fatass is on the apron so Ill let you continue . .. its Meldricks job to stay focused on the ref in that situation.

[SweetScienceFan]

He was up, if you fucking get up the fight continues, unless he is clearly wobbly or his eyes are not clear. Saying "Are you OK" was just an excuse for Steele to stop the damn fight. He got up, he dominated the fight for 11 rounds, and even when faced with possibly losing, he showed the heart once again to get up, and Steele stopped it and robbed him. I will never agree with the stoppage, ever.
Are you being serious? If you get up the fight continues? If you don't answer to the ref asking you if you are ok, the fight does not continue. I am having a hard time following you, as you are pretending like Steele only asked if he was ok as a way to stop the fight. Every ref asks the fighters if they are ok to continue, after every knockdown. If a fighter doesn't respond you are not allowed to continue the fight. Hell, just as many fights are stopped without anyone hitting the canvas at all, let alone letting every fighter go on simply because he was on his feet before ten.

[ripcity]

I used to think this was a horibble stopage after all there were 2 seconds left and Richard Stele was looking at the 10 seconds or less light. There was no way Chavez or even Carl Lewis would have been able to get to Taylor in time to land another punch. However the 10 seconds or less light is not a clock. If it was a clock showing 2 seconds it would have been harder to justify stoping the fight, but 10 seconds even 5 seconds could have been enough time for Chavez to land one more punch on Taylor who was clearly badly hurt.
In a perfict world Richard Stele would have known there was not enough time for Chavez to land another punch and let the fight go to the judges, but we don't live in a perfict world. A boxing refree has one job that is to protect the safty and wellbeing of the boxers,and Richard Stele did just that so you can't fault him for doing his job.

[Outboxer]

Terrible stoppage.

But to be fair, Taylor -did- look dead on his feet, and another two or three punches could have landed before five seconds were up...and we have no idea what those punches would have done to him. We don't even know if the judges would have screwed him over on the cards even if it -had- gone to points, because of the way Chavez closed the show so well. Chavez was a wrecking machine.

[Ramshall1]

He was up, if you fucking get up the fight continues, unless he is clearly wobbly or his eyes are not clear. Saying "Are you OK" was just an excuse for Steele to stop the damn fight. He got up, he dominated the fight for 11 rounds, and even when faced with possibly losing, he showed the heart once again to get up, and Steele stopped it and robbed him. I will never agree with the stoppage, ever.


his eyes were as clear as Roger Mayweathers after a 24 hour crack binge.

[SweetScienceFan]

You guys act like Steele had a stop watch on the edge of his nose. For all he knew there was 30 seconds left. That place was so loud nobody could hear anything.

[HeavyFisted]

Obviously this will always be controversial. When you first look at it you think "what bullshit" but when you really analyze it, it was the right stoppage.

What really gets overlooked in this whole scenario is what a frekin straight right at 0.25 sec of the round and what a right to knock him down. This is like hitting a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth of game 7 of the world series down 3-0. Amazing!

[HeavyFisted]

If you pause and play (pause, play, pause, play) during Steele's count you can clearly see that Taylor was out of it. Also, look at Chavez as Steele is asking if Taylor is ok....he doesnt even wait for Steele to call it before he lifts his hands in victory. The 2 people in the ring, closest to Taylor see that he is completely out of it and can not continue.

[divac]

He did in my book. The stoppage wasn't so bad though but I'd have probably let it go on, ready to dive in if Mel hadn't responded when the action resumed. Funny thing is though, if Meldrick had earned the nod I think all the sympathy would then lie with Chavez- and a rematch would have been imminent, probably around Sep 1990 (which Julio would have won I think).

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ready to jump in if Meldrick did'nt respond when the action resumed?????:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Hello, the fight was actually stopped because Melrick in a blank stare, did'nt respond to a simple question repeated twice......"ARE YOU OK????":deal

[divac]

Duva made mistakes i agree,m but ultimately its meldricks decision on what to do....he chose to stand his ground....watch the fight....even when Meldrick gets tagged and wobbled, he attachs chavez with more punches chosing to stand his ground instead of boxing more, or instead of clinching for rest....that mindset was his downfall...he shoce to try to bang and stand in front of a prime Chavez, and whoever paid his extensive hospital bills regrets it as much as Taylor!! big Mistake!

Nope, Steele should have crossed his arms and whistled, waiting for the final bell to come and hand Taylor a gift wrapped chance at the decision!

:-( Honestly I've never heard even remotely a reasonable argument for of why Richard Steele should have let that fight continue!:-(

People just let their heart and rooting interest get in the way of good judgement sometimes!

[divac]

If you pause and play (pause, play, pause, play) during Steele's count you can clearly see that Taylor was out of it. Also, look at Chavez as Steele is asking if Taylor is ok....he doesnt even wait for Steele to call it before he lifts his hands in victory. The 2 people in the ring, closest to Taylor see that he is completely out of it and can not continue.

Obviously Meldrick was done.....those who argue otherwise do so with the feeling that Steele had no right to stop the fight under any circumstances after Taylor was so close to the finish line.

[divac]

In my 30 years of watching the sport, this is one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen. I was outraged 17 years ago, and I'm still outraged. Steele was close to King, and he did him a favor again shortly after this in stopping the Tyson-Ruddock fight quickly.

Let me ask you this Zakman.....how do you feel of this past weekends Raphael Marquez-Israel Vasquez stoppage????

I'm willing to bet that theirs hoards of members here on ESB that felt that the Marquez-Vasquez fight was a good stoppage, but then unexplicably feel that a man with a blank stare and not responding to a simple question should have been left to cross the finish.:-(

[divac]

I meant if they had had an immediate rematch. JC would have been furious and fought like a man possesed. And Taylor wouldnt have recovered enough to take another beating

The fight could have been made soon after the first fight, but Meldrick Taylor's promotional team (Main Events) did'nt want it.
They immediately jumped to Welterweight and fought Aarron Davis in hopes that at some point Chavez would move up and fight Taylor at a higher weight and not 140 lbs.

Main Events even went as far as making Pernell Whitaker quickly jump over 140 lbs and avoid having to face the Lion of Culiacan at juniorwelter!

Wise move by Main Events, particularly jumping Taylor to Welter.
It would'nt have been fair to Meldrick after the beating he took to take on Chavez again soon after.

......unfortunately for Meldrick Taylor, his team made an even worst mistake by jumping Taylor to 154 lbs and have him fight an offensive fighting machine at his very prime in Terry Norris.
Norris was just too big for Taylor, and it was imo Norris who finished the job that Chavez started in ruining Taylor for good.

After the Chavez fight, Taylor needed some much needed time off and soft touches before he got in the ring with the likes of Chavez.
The Norris fight was just absurd matchmaking by Main Events however.

Wow, they sent poor Meldrick out to slaughter when they matched him up with a much bigger Terry Norris!:-(

[Zakman]

Let me ask you this Zakman.....how do you feel of this past weekends Raphael Marquez-Israel Vasquez stoppage????
I thought that stoppage was a bit quick, too - not as bad as this one certainly, but a tad early.

When it comes to stopping fights, I'm VERY "old school." Refs, in general, stop fights WAY too quick, and have for most of the time I've been following boxing.

In the old days, they let fights go to their natural conclusion. And it's not like ring deaths or injuries were any more common, either.

[lillarry]

Horrible stoppage. The Ref should had a feel of how much time was remaining. IMO Taylor won that fight.

[ripcity]

Horrible stoppage. The Ref should had a feel of how much time was remaining. IMO Taylor won that fight.

Why should the ref be the time keeper? The ref's job in boxing is to protect the saftey of the boxers not keep track of time. Richard Stele did his job.

[divac]

I thought that stoppage was a bit quick, too - not as bad as this one certainly, but a tad early.

When it comes to stopping fights, I'm VERY "old school." Refs, in general, stop fights WAY too quick, and have for most of the time I've been following boxing.

In the old days, they let fights go to their natural conclusion. And it's not like ring deaths or injuries were any more common, either.

Give us an honest answer Zakman.....if you're the referee, you'd have actually motioned the fighters to fight just after you just asked Taylor twice if he was OK and did'nt get a response???

The myth in this fight is that Steele stopped the fight with 2 seconds left, when in actuality Steele waived the fight off with about 6 or 7 ticks left on the clock.

You let the fight go on after Taylor in a blank stare has'nt responded to your questions?

Thats just so hard for me to believe that a capable, competent referee would let a fight go on when a fighter is'nt responding to commands!
It just does'nt make an sense what so ever!

[smokey]

The one problem I've had with that stoppage is that if he had let it continue, the bell would have rung before Chavez could have laid another glove on him. He was definitely incoherant, so I can't be TOO unhappy with the stoppage, though.

[Pat_Lowe]

The fight could have been made soon after the first fight, but Meldrick Taylor's promotional team (Main Events) did'nt want it.
They immediately jumped to Welterweight and fought Aarron Davis in hopes that at some point Chavez would move up and fight Taylor at a higher weight and not 140 lbs.

Main Events even went as far as making Pernell Whitaker quickly jump over 140 lbs and avoid having to face the Lion of Culiacan at juniorwelter!

Wise move by Main Events, particularly jumping Taylor to Welter.
It would'nt have been fair to Meldrick after the beating he took to take on Chavez again soon after.

......unfortunately for Meldrick Taylor, his team made an even worst mistake by jumping Taylor to 154 lbs and have him fight an offensive fighting machine at his very prime in Terry Norris.
Norris was just too big for Taylor, and it was imo Norris who finished the job that Chavez started in ruining Taylor for good.

After the Chavez fight, Taylor needed some much needed time off and soft touches before he got in the ring with the likes of Chavez.
The Norris fight was just absurd matchmaking by Main Events however.

Wow, they sent poor Meldrick out to slaughter when they matched him up with a much bigger Terry Norris!:-(

I agree with you there about Terry Norris, ridiculous idea by Duva and his crew. He had very little power at welterweight and wasn't exactly a big fighter there, what hope did he have at 154.

Also Meldrick Taylor is my favourite fighter but I think it should have been stopped. The rules of the sport say it should have. If the referee asks are you ok twice, and you fail to respond theres no doubt it should be over. To the people bringing up the flashing red light indicating 10 seconds left, its good that Steele was unable to see it, that shows that his attention was 100% focused on Taylor. To anyone that has been in the ring before, you'll see that you don't notice much outside the ring. You don't hear the crowd or see them, all you focus on is the man in front of you. Thats what Steele did in front of thousands of spectators. He did his job well.

[Vantage_West]

In my 30 years of watching the sport, this is one of the worst stoppages I have ever seen. I was outraged 17 years ago, and I'm still outraged. Steele was close to King, and he did him a favor again shortly after this in stopping the Tyson-Ruddock fight quickly.:lol: :lol: funny guy

steele was the ref of choice in the late 80's to early 90's. and at the same time don king had signed a huge stable of fighters in the early 80's.you had chavez,tyson,tucker,norris all these guys had stoppages by steele...but it was steeles hate of a beating when anyone was on the ropes taking 4 shots un answered he was there to stop it.

i think becuase of this he was exchanged for mills lane who wanted a fight and would shout at them to fight.

just coincidence man:good

:rasta

[Super_Fly_Sam]

I reckon Richard Steele made the right call....... it was an unlucky call for Taylor as he would have won the fight if he had been given the 2 seconds...

but.. he simply didnt respond its clear as day the Steele looked straight at Taylor and asked him if he was ok twice and Taylor didnt respond....

I also dont think the call should have been held against Steele like it was...

Steele did his job well....

That being said i dont think anything would have happened in those last 2 seconds that people would critisize Steele about for not stoppin the fight

[Super_Fly_Sam]

Anyone know what Chavez has to say about the fight??

[InHumanForm]

all i know is when i first saw the fight and saw that KD and the crowd went nuts i got goosebumps and still do.

good stoppage and go CHAVEZ!!!!!!!

[George W Hedge]

Greatest fight ever. And best comeback ever. In any sport.

I wouldnt say greatest fight ever, it was a very good fight tho.

Morales MAB 1 gets my vote for that honour.


Ps. I wasnt suprised to hear that chuck giampa had chavez ahead, he was the guy who had barrera 8-4 in the 2nd morales fight, it should have been vice versa, he should be investigated or sacked imo.

:good

[George W Hedge]

Anyone know what Chavez has to say about the fight??

Chavez says it wasnt his best night & that taylor deserves a rematch.

Jc is a true warrior.

[Shake]

Everytime I see this now that I know the extent of the injuries he had that night (a belly full of blood, for starters, and a facial fracture) I imagine what Taylor must have felt like when he got up off the canvas. Maybe he was worried he had lost the fight, as Duva had told him they needed this round and he got knocked down. Maybe he was confused and everything was swimming and he just turned towards the loudest thing. I don't know. I just know that I wish this fight was stopped in the seventh. Those two seconds here or there don't even matter as much as everyone says. Boxing fans think so, and I imagine Meldrick himself even does, but the truth is, the Meldrick Taylor his mama knew died that night.

[sst]

Taylor was in big trouble going into the 12th. His outstanding performance was over shadowing the beating he was taking. There was nothing on his shots but in return he was getting busted up. I don't think I have ever seen a fighter busted up so bad while winning the fight by such a wide margin. The stoppage was a no brainer. Taylor could not continue. It would have been criminally irresponsible for him to be allowed to continue. As it stands he was ruined by the beating. I don't understand why he did not take the round off. He stood in there and exchange with a fresher stronger fighter. Not smart. The focus is not and should have never been why Steel stopped the fight. Rather the focus should be why Taylor was fighting like he was behind in the last few rds.

[PH|LLA]

what a stupid stoppage

[stillafan]

Too many people get caught op on the emotion of the fight, and what happened to Taylor afterwards, like his career crashing....but only Meldrick coul have stoped this debate from starting...all he had to do was say he is ok....time is irrelevant...

[divac]

I reckon Richard Steele made the right call....... it was an unlucky call for Taylor as he would have won the fight if he had been given the 2 seconds...

but.. he simply didnt respond its clear as day the Steele looked straight at Taylor and asked him if he was ok twice and Taylor didnt respond....

I also dont think the call should have been held against Steele like it was...

Steele did his job well....

That being said i dont think anything would have happened in those last 2 seconds that people would critisize Steele about for not stoppin the fight

Again Sam, there were actually 6 to 7 seconds when Steele waived the fight off, more than enough time for Chavez to have unloaded at least a couple of more punches.

The official time of stoppage was with 2 seconds left, because the timekeeper let the clock run down all the way to 2 seconds even after Steele had waived it off.

Again there was more than 2 seconds left when the fight was stopped!!!

[paulfv]

I was afraid the next punch or two would have resulted in some kind of "Mortal Kombat"-type of 'Fatality.'

When the guy doesn' respond to your instructions and isn't looking at you after being knocked down, you have to stop the fight and protect what is likely a dazed fighter.

If you want to blame anyone, blame Lou Duva for cliimbing on the ring apron and distracting Meldrick. That's the guy to blame.

[la-califa]

Did the ring doctor examine Taylor before the 12th round? He looked pretty bad going into the 12th, or did Duva ever say if he considered stopping it in between rounds? The physical beating Taylor suffered was pretty much career ending. If taylor HAD won. he most likely would have lost the title in his first defense. He just wasn't the same fighter anymore.

[Super_Fly_Sam]

Again Sam, there were actually 6 to 7 seconds when Steele waived the fight off, more than enough time for Chavez to have unloaded at least a couple of more punches.

The official time of stoppage was with 2 seconds left, because the timekeeper let the clock run down all the way to 2 seconds even after Steele had waived it off.

Again there was more than 2 seconds left when the fight was stopped!!!

Oh ok i didnt know that mate.... then.. my opion is that Steele made the right call... just like it was before i knew there was more then 2 secs left

[PJ]

Too many people get caught op on the emotion of the fight, and what happened to Taylor afterwards, like his career crashing....but only Meldrick coul have stoped this debate from starting...all he had to do was say he is ok....time is irrelevant...


B*llSh*t time is irrelevant. If this is true, then why not take a 5 minute break when you get knocked down or stop the clock after you have won the first minute of a round. This way your opponent can't steal the other 2 minutes left...

[stillafan]

PJ, What i mean when i say that time is irrelevant....is that steele is not supposed to try to get an exact time left in the round ot make his decision weather to stop the fight or not.....Steele is not supposed to say..."well your not responding to 2 of my questions, but theres probably not much time left so lets stand here and let time run out".......If Richard Steele feels a fighter cannot continue, or if Steele asks a fighter if he is ok twice and he sees a fighter is not fit, he is sot supposed to take time or try to do math, and let the fight go........TIME IS IRRELEVANT!!!....

yes it sucks that taylors career went crashing downhill and he suffered the worst beating of his life

Yes it sucks that Duva gave him shitty instructiong going into the twelth

Yes it sucks that Duva jumped around and "might" have distracted him...


But ultimately, he did nto respond....untimately, he was out of his feet...


Times does not matter, when the ref is judging a fighters ability to continue.......and yes in that case >>>TIME IS IRRELEVANT!

[Biggame]

It was a horrible stoppage period!!

Look at all the circumstances..

Why it shouldn't have been stopped

Big Fight!

Taylor was fighting til the very end, and it wasn't like he was there getting beat down and not responding. Chavez definately had the upper hand, but Taylor was still there making a fight of it. He deserved the opportunity to go on!

Why it was stopped

Richard Steele is the Ref!

Don King is the promoter!

It was the only way to secure a win for Kings man!!

Chavez had the upper hand but Taylor still fought his ass off. After he was down he got up seeming more fatigued than out of it, and he looked toward his corner as Duva was saying something. Steele says Taylor didn't respomd and he was right, but he also saw Taylor looking into his corner. How many times do you see a ref stop a fight where a fighter is standing looking into his corner as they both are speaking? Steele knew Duva was talking to Taylor, and made no attempt to get Taylors attention back to him. I could see if Taylor was staring into space or something, but he wasn't. Alot of fighter look to there corner after a KD, and ref's recognize that and regaing the fighters attention. Steele took advantage of the situation as they all needed Chavez to get that win because it was the only way! Steele had seen it all, and he knew what was going on. Ppl say Taylor looked bad when he got up, well he looked the same way going into the 11th, and 12rds, but he fought on the same way. Also ppl say Chavez ruined him, and all the damage Taylor took that fight is a good reason to stop a fight w/2 secs left, and that's Bullshit!! No one knew the damage til after the fight, and Taylor fought nothing like a man who had that type of damage. It shouldn't weigh in ppls minds today when talking about the decision to stop the fight:nono

Bottom is Steele made a horrible call on purpose!! Many fighters have gotten up hurt, and tired and had the opportunity to go on especially in Big fights like that one, and Steele blew it for a man named Don King, and his fighter!!

[Jinx]

can't argue with Steele, but he could've let it continue for damn 2 secs and let Taylor have the victory he risked his life for...

[stillafan]

Big game...

What was Steele supposed to do ask him 5 times??? he asked him twice!!...it all falls back on Taylor....i just watched the Hokpkins/Tito fight and watch the last round.......Tito gets an ass whoopin through that fight, and when he gets dropped....HE IMMEDIATELY LOOKS FOR THE REF AND NODS HIS HEAD IM OK!!! IM OK!!!.......every fighter does that...they petition to the ref immediately reflexively because its ingrained in them since they were kids and in the amateurs that the REF CAN STOP THE fiGHT AT ANYTIME!!!!.....Taylor is the only person that could have stopped everything and behaved like a Coherent fighter....all he had to do was nod and say "Im ok"...why dont you put the blame on Taylor?? he is the one who could have prevented this....Let me ask you this.....ask 1000 fighters on what to do after you get dropped when you stand back up....i guarantee you none(ZERO) will say..."ITS OK TO LOOK CONFUSED AND IGNORE THE REF"...None of them will tell you that


In fact you say that we didnt know until later all the extent of his injuries, YOUR EXACTLY RIGHT.....after its all said and done and we know how beat Taylor was ....and how much blood he pissed and drank and with his fractured face and most importantly(reported by doctor) BRAIN TRAUMA....that is why we can spectulate and make an educated guess as to why he did not behave like everyother fighter....becasue of those injuries he ignored Steele, because of that beating he did not nod his head and behave like he should have...his injuries prevented him from doing what he was supposed to and saying he was ok....

let me ask you, why dont you put any blame on Taylor?? when he is the only erson that could have controlled his own destiny...he was the one in the ring being asked questions...

[Biggame]

Big game...

What was Steele supposed to do ask him 5 times??? he asked him twice!!...it all falls back on Taylor....i just watched the Hokpkins/Tito fight and watch the last round.......Tito gets an ass whoopin through that fight, and when he gets dropped....HE IMMEDIATELY LOOKS FOR THE REF AND NODS HIS HEAD IM OK!!! IM OK!!!.......every fighter does that...they petition to the ref immediately reflexively because its ingrained in them since they were kids and in the amateurs that the REF CAN STOP THE fiGHT AT ANYTIME!!!!.....Taylor is the only person that could have stopped everything and behaved like a Coherent fighter....all he had to do was nod and say "Im ok"...why dont you put the blame on Taylor?? he is the one who could have prevented this....Let me ask you this.....ask 1000 fighters on what to do after you get dropped when you stand back up....i guarantee you none(ZERO) will say..."ITS OK TO LOOK CONFUSED AND IGNORE THE REF"...None of them will tell you that


In fact you say that we didnt know until later all the extent of his injuries, YOUR EXACTLY RIGHT.....after its all said and done and we know how beat Taylor was ....and how much blood he pissed and drank and with his fractured face and most importantly(reported by doctor) BRAIN TRAUMA....that is why we can spectulate and make an educated guess as to why he did not behave like everyother fighter....becasue of those injuries he ignored Steele, because of that beating he did not nod his head and behave like he should have...his injuries prevented him from doing what he was supposed to and saying he was ok....

let me ask you, why dont you put any blame on Taylor?? when he is the only erson that could have controlled his own destiny...he was the one in the ring being asked questions...

No I don't expect him to ask him five times, but I don't expect him to just ask once especially when he knows a fighters is looking into his corner! As far as bringing up Tito against Hops...lol! Bad example.. Tito had been down several times up to that point, and Taylor had been down how many times before the Chavez fight:huh Taylor looked fatigued, but not out of it. Ppl mistake the two. If he was so out of it he wouldn't not have been able to get up and direct his attention to his own corner. He wasn't lost in space. Now I blame him too because he directed his attention to the wrong person, but as a professional Steele knew what was going on. He's seen it before. It's not uncommon for a fighter to look to his corner after being Kd so just cut that crap about 100% of fighters! Alot of fighter do it, even when it's a flash KD Hell...if a fight was stopped everytime a fighter looked into his corner before ans, or evrytime they looked into there corner before coming forward for a ref fighters K0%'s would skyrocket, and plenty of fighter would have plenty more losses!

Again as far as the injuries...he fought on w/them til the very end so they don't weigh in on Steele's horrible decision:nono The other thing is Taylor fought valiantly til the end and deserved to finish. Steele was well aware and knew that there was under 10secs left, and he also knew that the fighter could be saved by the bell in the 12rd so if the fight went on Taylor would have won regardless. He had to stop that fight for King, Chavez, and his own pockets!! Steele knew exactly what he had to do!!

Good Job Steele!!:patsch

[Biggame]

Yes, it was. It was also classless and greedy by Main Events. They must have seen that Taylor was on a rapid decline and wanted to cash out on him. Instead of taking care of their fighter they hurt him even more.

Agree 100%

[Boinko]

As the years have gone by, I'm a little more philosophical about this fight. Taylor showed amazing ability on that night, and Chavez staged an equally amazing comeback.
It's very unfortunate that the fight had to end in such controversy, but I'd now rather focus on the accomplishments of both fighters that night.

The real shame is that there wasn't a rematch shortly after this fight. That could have put the issue to rest.
Instead, when the rematch did happen, Taylor was a shell of his former self.

[Tettsuo]

Bottom line.... Steele asked Taylor a question, Taylor didn't (or couldn't) respond. That ends the fight.

[stillafan]

Biggame, ok i see your point....:good

I agree to disagree:good , boxing fans like us will be debating this one until who knows when...just the way it is......only Steele really knows why he made that call, Taylor helped him by not responding.......Taylor fought his heart out, and its tragic of what happened to him on that night, with the possible brain damage and leaving his prime in the ring.....
when i watch the HBO special its sad on what happened to him, my heart goes out ot the poor guy who now doesnt even seem like he speaks English anymore...i guess what we can agree on is that it was a hell of a fight:good

[Ramshall1]

2 seconds is 2 seconds. . . its 2 seconds LEFT in the fight. . . Chavez beat him to the point where he could not continue, he did so within the timeframe of the fight.

[Biggame]

Biggame, ok i see your point....:good

I agree to disagree:good , boxing fans like us will be debating this one until who knows when...just the way it is......only Steele really knows why he made that call, Taylor helped him by not responding.......Taylor fought his heart out, and its tragic of what happened to him on that night, with the possible brain damage and leaving his prime in the ring.....
when i watch the HBO special its sad on what happened to him, my heart goes out ot the poor guy who now doesnt even seem like he speaks English anymore...i guess what we can agree on is that it was a hell of a fight:good

No doubt:good

Taylor is a tragic story, and he and Chavez will forever be linked!! Both warrior's to well respected, anf that night will live forever in Boxing!!

[errsta]

The ref is not supposed to say, "I think you cannot fight on but theres only a few seconds and I think you deserve the win". Steele made the right call.
:happy :happy

Exactly. How this fact is lost on supposedly objective people is beyond me. Meldrick fought his ass off in that fight - they both did. I don't think it's fair to Chavez for steele to cut meldrick a break on account of the clock. Until the bell rings the fighters and the ref are bound to the rules. Period. Steele catches too much shit for adhering to that in this fight.

[warchild]

If you pause and play (pause, play, pause, play) during Steele's count you can clearly see that Taylor was out of it. Also, look at Chavez as Steele is asking if Taylor is ok....he doesnt even wait for Steele to call it before he lifts his hands in victory. The 2 people in the ring, closest to Taylor see that he is completely out of it and can not continue.

Obviously this will always be controversial. When you first look at it you think "what bullshit" but when you really analyze it, it was the right stoppage.

What really gets overlooked in this whole scenario is what a frekin straight right at 0.25 sec of the round and what a right to knock him down. This is like hitting a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth of game 7 of the world series down 3-0. Amazing!


Those are good observations.

A couple of other things about the 12th round....

At the begining of the round Jim Lampley says something like...."Chavez has three minutes to come up with an unlikely stoppage, and right now it doesn't look like he's got the stuff to get it done."

Near the end of the round, Taylor starts showboating in front of Chavez....a couple of seconds later, Chavez landed the right hand that set up the stoppage.

Chavez made some people look foolish that night.

The stoppage....

There are two ways to win a boxing match....

A. Render your opponent unfit to continue inside of the allotted time.
B. Win enough rounds to get a lead on the judges cards, and make it to the final bell so that the scorecards can be read.

Chavez achieved A.

If Steele had given Taylor the benefit of the doubt(and to quote Evander Holyfield...."No one gives you anything in this buisiness."), we'd be debating wether Chavez was robbed of a hard earned victory.

Good Stoppage.

[divac]

Biggame, your opinion that nobody knew the extent of the damage that Taylor had suffered at the time that Steele stopped the fight does'nt hold water.

Richard Steele was the man closest to the action.
If anybody knew the punishment and damage absorbed by Taylor it was him.

Quotes from Richard Steele, "Chavez was landing shots to break bones!"
......another I have heard from Steele was that Chavez shots would bring about involuntary grunts and noises from Meldrick Taylor.

.....and Steele was observing both fighters. When Steele was giving Taylor the count after he had been knocked down, he was looking straight at Meldrick Taylor's eyes and analyzing his response and condition as he counted.

Steele had the right to stop the fight on the fact that Taylor did'nt respond to his question.
....but even more weight imo was put fourth by Steele as he weighed what had transpired throughout the fight, and he analyzed the condition of Taylor as he counted.

Those that are against the stoppage for some reason feel that Taylor had dominated the fight up to that point....but thats a mythical opinion brought by the announcing team at HBO.

Richard Steele stopped the fight for three reasons.....

1 Meldrick Taylor took a consistent hard pounding beatdown throughout most of the fight.

2 Richard Steele as he counted, saw that Meldrick Taylor had a blank stare into space, as if he was out of it.

3 Meldrick Taylor did nothing in the time frame of the count to let Steele know that he could continue, add to that to boot if it was even necessary at that point after Steele had seen all the signs of a spent fighter who could'nt continue....if Steele needed any other reassurance for himself as he was about to stop the fight, he asks Taylor twice are you OK, and does'nt get a response.


You'd have to be an absolute moron of a referee to have let the fight continue after those observations.

Biggame, straight out man, your reasoning that Steele should have let Taylor continue are absolutely full of fighter favoritism baloney and absurdity.
There is no other way for me to put it!

[TBooze]

The referee is not a timekeeper, his sole purpose is to look after the health of the fighters; Taylor could not carry on in his opinion thus Steele did the right thing.

The truth is even if that final bell had gone, Taylor was shot, Chavez had given him such a beating (broken eye orbital; big cut in the mouth that Duva himself said Taylor may of swallowed a pint of blood), that Meldrick would never be the same fighter again.

It is sad when a potentially brilliant fighter is ruined in one match, it does make you feel very sorry for him, particularly when you take so much enjoyment out of the fight that ruined him, but that is boxing.

Chavez was classy enough to give Taylor one more big pay day in a rematch that Taylor did not deserve (in the time period) but needed from a financial sense.

[Biggame]

Biggame, your opinion that nobody knew the extent of the damage that Taylor had suffered at the time that Steele stopped the fight does'nt hold water.

Richard Steele was the man closest to the action.
If anybody knew the punishment and damage absorbed by Taylor it was him.

Quotes from Richard Steele, "Chavez was landing shots to break bones!"
......another I have heard from Steele was that Chavez shots would bring about involuntary grunts and noises from Meldrick Taylor.

.....and Steele was observing both fighters. When Steele was giving Taylor the count after he had been knocked down, he was looking straight at Meldrick Taylor's eyes and analyzing his response and condition as he counted.

Steele had the right to stop the fight on the fact that Taylor did'nt respond to his question.
....but even more weight imo was put fourth by Steele as he weighed what had transpired throughout the fight, and he analyzed the condition of Taylor as he counted.

Those that are against the stoppage for some reason feel that Taylor had dominated the fight up to that point....but thats a mythical opinion brought by the announcing team at HBO.

Richard Steele stopped the fight for three reasons.....

1 Meldrick Taylor took a consistent hard pounding beatdown throughout most of the fight.

2 Richard Steele as he counted, saw that Meldrick Taylor had a blank stare into space, as if he was out of it.

3 Meldrick Taylor did nothing in the time frame of the count to let Steele know that he could continue, add to that to boot if it was even necessary at that point after Steele had seen all the signs of a spent fighter who could'nt continue....if Steele needed any other reassurance for himself as he was about to stop the fight, he asks Taylor twice are you OK, and does'nt get a response.


You'd have to be an absolute moron of a referee to have let the fight continue after those observations.

Biggame, straight out man, your reasoning that Steele should have let Taylor continue are absolutely full of fighter favoritism baloney and absurdity.
There is no other way for me to put it!

No favortism at all, and no absurdity!:nono

It's an opinion and I'm not the only one of that opinion. I can turn around around and say that your opinion reaks of the same thing couldn't I!! I'm not going to though cause I'm positive you're looking for a fight!

Anyway I feel the stoppage was BS, and Steele took that opportunity to help out King and his fighter. There's not much more that can be said about it, or change that!! I disagree w/you about your take, but I won't come across like you abd act like your opinion is one of a foolish man!!

Thanks for your take buddy!!
:hi:

[stillafan]

we should all (except Taylor) appreciate what Richard Steele did, he gave all of us die hard fans something to debate about til the cows come home.....i dont know if anyone could have predicted how strong and passionate people would feel about that Contraversial call........:good

[Mrboogie23]

I have always said and still maintain that the stoppage was legit. Its not Steeles job to watch the time. He's there to protect the fighter. Taylor didnt respond when asked to so Steele called the fight. He was doing his job.

[Biggame]

we should all (except Taylor) appreciate what Richard Steele did, he gave all of us die hard fans something to debate about til the cows come home.....i dont know if anyone could have predicted how strong and passionate people would feel about that Contraversial call........:good

No doubt!!:good

[hitman_hatton1]

i still say it's a bad stoppage.

for me it's the fact he's up so early.

he's up at like 3 or 4.

u don't stop a guy who's standing stock still and rises early. :patsch

[bandeedo]

taylor was destined to lose as soon as he hit the canvas. if steel would have allowed the fight to continue, he would have been required to immediately stop it since a trainer jumping up on the apron before the bell is a disqualification.

[stillafan]

hittman hatton 1, what about the fact that he didnt answer when asked if he was ok?? is the ref supposed to let an unresponsive fighter continue?

[Jason997]

This is one of the greatest spectacles in sports history. Both men deserve an incredible amount of credit and respect. Taylor fought a great fight and went out on his shield. He was a warrior who went toe to toe and beat one of the greatest fighters ever for the majority of the fight.

It is really hard to describe Chavez's effort with words. This was the greatest comeback in boxing history. When I was a kid I remember seeing this fight at my grandfathers house. Chavez became my idol and boxing became my sport.

- Jason

[divac]

hittman hatton 1, what about the fact that he didnt answer when asked if he was ok?? is the ref supposed to let an unresponsive fighter continue?

I've never seen anybody who's against the stoppage, legitly be able to answer that question.

I've seen fighters who get knocked down and who are mentally out of it get up all the time.
Getting up from a knockdown does not mean a fighter is fit to continue.

In many instances, the fighter knocked down does'nt know where the hell he's at, but instinctively gets up......
I believe this was the case with Meldrick Taylor.
When you look at the replay, Taylor helped himself up with the ring ropes, and then stood there with a blank stare, holding himself up with the ring ropes.

As Steele stopped the fight, Taylor continued to hold the ropes. Likely because his legs alone could'nt hold his weight at that point.

How the hell does a referee let the fight continue after observing all the signs of a fighter out or it, and then does'nt respond to the refs question of are you OK....explain that to us Biggame.

Its absurd for me to think that someone who does'nt have rooting interest for or against a fighter can honestly say that Steele was wrong in his common sense decision to stop the fight!:-(