If Roy Jones, when he left his father, had joined the Kronk gym...

[Shake]

Would he have been better or worse off?

[Senya13]

There wasn't anything they could teach him there, he already knew all aspects of the science.

[FlatNose]

Roy would have benefited, he would have learned some skill, instead of relying on his almost unhuman reflexes.As soon as Jones slowed down a millionith of a second his lack of such skills was glaringly obvious.Roy went on to get ktfo by Tarver, whos entire reputation is built on his ko of Roy.By the time Johnson sent Jones into dreamland, Roy had regressed even farther.Now, Roy is reduced to cherry picking opponents, with rapidly deteriorating resources, except for his big mouth and incredible ego.

[Shake]

I agree better fundamentals would have given him more longevity, but what I was really asking is -- would Roy Jones have been better at his peak if he'd had a strict orthodox trainer like Manny Steward? He obviously would still have had his speed, coordination and power.

Or would that degrade him to something more ordinary?

[Senya13]

Manny Steward had nothing to teach Roy Jones Jr by 1993, like I said. He already had complete set of skills for all situations, watch the film.

[Shake]

Unorthodox skills, tailored to his talents. No fighter, though, is perfect, and I am wondering in this topic if orthodox skills would have been a help or improvement in some ways.

I know your opinion. I'd like to hear others.

[Senya13]

Jones already showed all orthodox moves from the book by that point. You can't teach something the fighter has already known and has been using for a long time. Trying to force him abandon his style would only cause bad things, I quoted trainers like Angelo Dundee, Ray Arcel and others about this.

[Shake]

Again, I already know your opinion. Saying 'it could ony mean bad things' is shortsighted for I don't actually believe you have enough inside knowledge to be as sure as your statement suggests.

Roy Jones working behind the jab, standing up straight, fighting textbook.

[Senya13]

Watch middleweight and super middleweight Jones. He throws plenty of jabs. Straight up stance is primitive, it suits fighters who don't have enough plasticity, kind of what you see from many European boxers today.

As for inside knowledge, I quoted words of Dundee and Arcel on this matter, like I said. Develop what the fighter has, do not try to change him to something new. Do you think these two trainers aren't knowledgable enough?

[Shake]

He throws jabs to keep opponents off-balance, and I'm willing to bet he lead with the left hook more often than with the jab.

Arcel and Dundee are knowledgeable enough, and while those comments do have merit, they were made in a very general sense and don't necesarily apply to Roy Jones. I consider him to be the most athletic man to ever prizefight -- it's very much possible that he was successful despite, and not because of his lack of fundamentals. I never felt an opponent was particularly confused by Jones' style -- just the speed of hand and foot and the flurries he produced.

This is a simple 'what if' thread. What if a prizefighter with Jones' athletic ability, speed and power fought in a fundamentally sound way?

I don't know the answer. You apparantly believe you do, and I thank you for your input, but it wouldn't hurt if you were less forceful with it. When you're dealing with prizefighting fantasies, there is rarely one absolute truth, and it doesn't show a lot of wisdom to pretend you're the one with the goods that'll set everything straight.

[Doppleganger]

It's an interesting question. RJJ was someone who relied on his almost superhuman athletic ability, despite what Senya would have you believe. However, I also agree with Senya that going to Kronk would not really do anything for RJJ, but for different reasons than Senya states. RJJ's style was all about using his athletic talents to the full. Have him develop more orthodox techniques and learn sound fundamentals, like a Thomas Hearns, might mean that he'd become a more ordinary fighter as a result. Much of the brilliance of RJJ was that he wasn't orthodox.

I don't think RJJ was an excellent technician (in fact he was quite poor) and perhaps he never could be one. What he definately was though was a supreme athlete and he maximised his gifts until they began to let him down as they and he aged.

[A-50]

Nothing would change that Glass Jaw. You can't train a chin espoecially one as bad as RJJ's.

[Illmatic]

Emanuel Steward is terrible with unorthodox fighters

[Shake]

I think the sparring at Kronk would have changed him. It was a very prideful place, and Roy would undoubtedly have been the man to beat, but he may have gotten more competitive, more fierce.

Doppleganger makes a lot of sense. I suspect Roy would have been worse off.

[Jinx]

Steward trying to make Jones into an orthodox fighter would've produced a lesser fighter...Steward has already regressed Wlad, trying to make him into the white Lewis...Wlad was far more explosive from his Euro-style, where he used his left hook alot more, and balance was much better...

[Jinx]

And also lost to Lamon Brewster...

yep and Stewart was training him, which makes my point even better...:good

[1lehudson]

Jones split with his father for those very reasons. Jones Sr wanted Jr to be more of a jab jab right move type fighter, Jr wanted to be a jump in right hook type fighter.