Should Ring Magazine put Hatton back in the P4P top ten?

[JonOli]

Should Ring Magazine put Hatton back in the P4P top ten?

The top ten as of Nov. 17, 2008

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Antonio Margarito
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Paul Williams

[Jack Dempsey]

Why is Hopkins so high?, he was there or thereabouts despite losing to Taylor twice and Calzaghe, looks like the yanks were terrified of having a list full of foreigners

[Chinny]

Why is Hopkins so high? Because GBP own the Ring of course.

No, Ricky is not top 10 P4P in my view.

[Benjiabc]

ricky is still not top ten IMO

[Jimbo]

P4P is so subjective anyway, there are a couple in the list like Williams or Cotto that Hatton could easily get put above in terms of career wins, but I think the problem for Hatton is that he doesn't really fight in a "P4P style". That is re relies on his strength and stamina rather than having a slick boxing technique which would easily move up the weight divisions.

P4P by its very nature is always likely to favour boxers over swarmers and the fact that Hatton has struggled every time he's moved to 147 makes him an unlikely candidate for the P4P lists in my opinion.

[Benjiabc]

P4P is so subjective anyway, there are a couple in the list like Williams or Cotto that Hatton could easily get put above in terms of career wins, but I think the problem for Hatton is that he doesn't really fight in a "P4P style". That is re relies on his strength and stamina rather than having a slick boxing technique which would easily move up the weight divisions.

P4P by its very nature is always likely to favour boxers over swarmers and the fact that Hatton has struggled every time he's moved to 147 makes him an unlikely candidate for the P4P lists in my opinion.


exactly, your spot on with this mate

[JonOli]

Why is Hopkins so high? Because GBP own the Ring of course.

No, Ricky is not top 10 P4P in my view.

A total schooling (performance of the year) victory over Ring P4P top ten rated fighter Kelly Pavlik, the working of a very convincing points victory over Antonio Tarver ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), beating Winky Wright ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), and a what some see as a close, much debated, split decision loss to the P4P no3 Joe Calzaghe - which some argue he won.

[TehRileh]

I think hatton has done more than Paul Willams.

[JonOli]

Personally I'd sneak him in at number 10 - but I may be a bit biased. He's barely dropped a round in his last two fights, and convincingly dispatched of the Ring ranked no1 contender in his last fight. I also think that he was perhaps a bit harshly treated after losing to P4P no1 Floyd - and getting dropped like a stone from the list.

Yea, Ricky looked good last time out, stick him in at number 10 I say.:D :wink:

[D-MAC]

Just outside for me.

[TehRileh]

Ricky gets stopped by p4p number 1 - gets dropped
Cotto more or less quits against someone who wasnt even rated in the top 10 i dont think and he stays comfortabley in.

[icemax]

Ricky gets stopped by p4p number 1 - gets dropped
Cotto more or less quits against someone who wasnt even rated in the top 10 i dont think and he stays comfortabley in.

I agree that it does seem a little fucked up

[Claypole]

P4P is so subjective anyway, there are a couple in the list like Williams or Cotto that Hatton could easily get put above in terms of career wins, but I think the problem for Hatton is that he doesn't really fight in a "P4P style". That is re relies on his strength and stamina rather than having a slick boxing technique which would easily move up the weight divisions.

P4P by its very nature is always likely to favour boxers over swarmers and the fact that Hatton has struggled every time he's moved to 147 makes him an unlikely candidate for the P4P lists in my opinion.:goodYep, this just about sums it up.

[trotter]

Cotto and Williams (especially Williams) shouldn't be there. How the hell has Williams got on that list?!

Hatton? Arguably, just about.

[Beeston Brawler]

I always had him about #10 anyway - beating Paulie (whom I think is VERY ordinary) doesn't do much to change that.

[D-MAC]

The whole P4P concept is flawed - it gives too much credit to "name" victories and it doesn't mean anything.

Styles wise, Calzaghe would knock the hell out of Pacquaio with his intelligent swarming aggression and solid movement, but Pacquaio is the more "accomplished" fighter in resume and performance terms.

It means absolutely nothing.

What's wrong with that?

If you fight the best and beat the best you should be held in higher regard than someone who hasn't.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with Calzaghe-Pac comparison; boxing is a scissor-paper-stone kinda sport; every boxer has styles they struggle with.

I personally don't have a problem with the P-4-P lists, and definetly don't have a problem with Pac-Man being ranked as the best fighter in the world.

[mike464]

He should be clearly above Paul Williams!

[jc]

i think how you win fights should play apart aswel, he didnt look that good against Urango, Collazo, Lazcano and was KOd aswel, id say he is top 15 but cant put him ahead of Guzman, Calderon or Kessler, they dont have the names Ricky has, but look more dominant in most performances.

I think ''resume'' shouldnt be the ONLY thing to base a p4p opinion on.

[PaddyD1983]

I clicked yes and was surprised that so many agreed!

I'll post my P4P later

[Beeston Brawler]

Guzman must surely be classed as inactive, surely?

[toffeejack]

He should be clearly above Paul Williams!

Agreed.

[achillesthegreat]

i think he'll re-enter the top 10 cos hatton was promoted by GBP and wants to fight dlh next.

[ApatheticLeader]

Putting him back in the top 10 as a result of a win against a shop-worn Malignaggi? I don't think so!

He stays exactly where he is for me - just outside the top 10.

[Cobbler]

Everyone seems to be answering this on the basis of their own rankings, whereas the question was whether Ring Magazine should have him in their top ten.

Obviously personal rankings are a different matter, but absolutely unequivocally Hatton should be in The Ring top ten.

He beat Tszyu, who they had at number three P4P prior to that fight. He beat Castillo, who they had at number seven P4P prior to that fight. Now he's beaten Malignaggi, who they ranked number two at LWW. His only defeat is to Mayweather, who they ranked number one P4P.

Meanwhile, Cotto is in there, with a dubious win over Moseley (who the ring had as, what, 4th best WW?) and a loss to Margarito, who was nowhere near their P4P top ten.

By their own standards, The Ring should have Hatton no lower than six.

[GazOC]

8-10 for me. He was harshly dropped in the first place and now he's just dominated the Rings number 1 at 140.

[D-MAC]

Everyone seems to be answering this on the basis of their own rankings, whereas the question was whether Ring Magazine should have him in their top ten.

Obviously personal rankings are a different matter, but absolutely unequivocally Hatton should be in The Ring top ten.

He beat Tszyu, who they had at number three P4P prior to that fight. He beat Castillo, who they had at number seven P4P prior to that fight. Now he's beaten Malignaggi, who they ranked number two at LWW. His only defeat is to Mayweather, who they ranked number one P4P.

Meanwhile, Cotto is in there, with a dubious win over Moseley (who the ring had as, what, 4th best WW?) and a loss to Margarito, who was nowhere near their P4P top ten.

By their own standards, The Ring should have Hatton no lower than six.

Working on that criteria you do have a very valid point; the question was of course relating to the Ring Magazine ratings; he sits at 11 on my list, but judging by what you have said then yes the Ring should reinstate him at some position in the top 10 (by their ratings he has just beat, and by all accounts well beat, the No.1 contender in his division).

[rooq]

Cotto and Williams (especially Williams) shouldn't be there. How the hell has Williams got on that list?!

Hatton? Arguably, just about.

cotto is still on there after the margarito loss, possibly because of the judah and mosley wins not so long ago.

i think that if cotto is still p4p, hatton should be there or thereabouts

[Govanmauler]

Ricky gets stopped by p4p number 1 - gets dropped
Cotto more or less quits against someone who wasnt even rated in the top 10 i dont think and he stays comfortabley in.

EXACTLY !!

the Ring is a F**kin joke though and has been for some time (even before the GBP take over) the 100 best fighters thing they do every year is laughable !

Gimme Boxing News and Boxing Monthly any day of the week !

[ApatheticLeader]

If people think he should have been in the top 10 before the Malignaggi fight, that's fine as far as I'm concerned. I mean, I disagree, but have no issue with it.

But if anyone thinks that the win catapults him further up the rankings in any way, shape, or form - that's stupid.

[jc]

i think he'll re-enter the top 10 cos hatton was promoted by GBP and wants to fight dlh next.

Excellent point.

[JonOli]

Personally I'd sneak him in at number 10. He's barely dropped a round in his last two fights, and convincingly dispatched of the Ring ranked no1 contender in his last fight. I also think that he was perhaps a bit harshly treated after losing to P4P no1 Floyd - and getting dropped like a stone from the list.

Yea, Ricky looked good last time out, stick him in at number 10 I say.

The new Ring P4P list...
1. Manny Pacquiao
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Country: Philippines
Record: 47-3-2 (36 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #1 | Last Week: #1 | Weeks On List: 260
Titles: WBC
Next Fight: 12/6/2008 vs. Oscar De La Hoya

2. Juan Manuel Marquez
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: Mexico
Record: 49-4-1 (36 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #2 | Last Week: #2 | Weeks On List: 89
Titles: The Ring

3. Joe Calzaghe
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: Wales
Record: 46-0-0 (32 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #3 | Last Week: #3 | Weeks On List: 143
Titles: The Ring

4. Bernard Hopkins
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: USA (Philadelphia, Pa.)
Record: 49-5-1 (32 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #4 | Last Week: #4 | Weeks On List: 129

5. Israel Vazquez
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: Mexico
Record: 43-4-0 (31 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #5 | Last Week: #5 | Weeks On List: 69
Titles: WBC, The Ring

6. Antonio Margarito

[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: Mexico
Record: 37-5-0 (27 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #6 | Last Week: #6 | Weeks On List: 18

7. Rafael Marquez
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: Mexico
Record: 37-5-0 (33 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #7 | Last Week: #7 | Weeks On List: 27

8. Miguel Cotto
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: Puerto Rico

Record: 32-1-0 (26 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #8 | Last Week: #8 | Weeks On List: 77

9. Ivan Calderon
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: Puerto Rico
Record: 32-0-0 (6 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #9 | Last Week: #9 | Weeks On List: 6
Titles: WBO, The Ring

10. Ricky Hatton

[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: England
Record: 45-1-0 (32 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #10 | Last Week: - | Weeks On List: 1
Titles: The Ring

[Kid Lucky]

For me it's got to be based on performances and quality of opposition. Unless fighters are based in US or take on other 'world champions' they are always going to struggle in this list - look at the difference before/after Lacey for Calzaghe.

Initially I would have thought that Ricky should be outside, but thinking about who should replace him I worked through to people like Darchinyan as he's beat good quality opposition, but only 3 or 4 fights ago he was being knocked out by Donaire - and would he get rated above Hatton based on performances and quality of opposition? At that weight probably not.

[GazOC]

i think he'll re-enter the top 10 cos hatton was promoted by GBP and wants to fight dlh next.

I can't see that being the cause, GBP know they have to seen to be impartial towards fighters connected to them (Hatton and Hopkins were both dropped without a second though when they lost) and also it took the magazine close on a decade to get its reputation (and circulation) back after the last ratings fixing scandal.

[JonOli]

I don't get it. It's perhaps debatable that Hatton should get in at number ten, that's fair enough, but it's certainly not worthy of screaming scandal, imo. He has a very good case to be there...

[GazOC]

People like a good conspiracy theory, its just human nature.

[JonOli]

I must admit I'm not too confident they won't stick Oscar in there after beating Pac.

[GazOC]

I must admit I'm not too confident they won't stick Oscar in there after beating Pac.

I'm hoping they drop Pac a place or 2 if he loses just for the comedy value over on the General Forum, the place will go into meltdown.:lol:

[JonOli]

New Ring p4p list...

P4P NO 1
Oscar De La Hoya
[Only registered and activated users can see links] Country: USA (Los Angeles, Calif.)
Record: 40-5-0 (30 KOs)
Ranking: This Week: #1| Last Week: #200

:yikes

[scurlaruntings]

How on earth does Hatton enter the P4P rankings? Based on what exactly? Paulie Malinaggi? Is this even serious?

[9Ball]

How on earth does Hatton enter the P4P rankings? Based on what exactly? Paulie Malinaggi? Is this even serious?

Regardless of your hate for Hatton you have to admit his performance in totally outclassing, outspeeding, outthinking and outboxing Malignaggi was very impressive.

Wins and losses have a lot to do with pfp lists for obvious reasons.
Going on his performance against Lazcano I would say not, but the sheer ease of victory and level of dominance over Paulie gives Hatton much more of a leg up into the top ten.

IMO

:good

[scurlaruntings]

Regardless of your hate for Hatton you have to admit his performance in totally outclassing, outspeeding, outthinking and outboxing Malignaggi was very impressive.

Wins and losses have a lot to do with pfp lists for obvious reasons.
Going on his performance against Lazcano I would say not, but the sheer ease of victory and level of dominance over Paulie gives Hatton much more of a leg up into the top ten.

IMO

:goodSo all he has to do is win one fight against one of the worst champions at 140 in 140`s history and he gets put back in the top 10? Yeah ok buddy :roll:

[achillesthegreat]

I can't see that being the cause, GBP know they have to seen to be impartial towards fighters connected to them (Hatton and Hopkins were both dropped without a second though when they lost) and also it took the magazine close on a decade to get its reputation (and circulation) back after the last ratings fixing scandal.
Based on one of the earlier posts it appears I was right. Even if DLH loses, it helps make the Hatton v PAC fight better cos thats still two P4Pers. I'm not saying there is a conspiracy but don't be suprised if the mentality will favour GBP fighters. Plus, we are talking about the ring magazine. The same magazine that had a ratings scandal.

[steveedster]

So all he has to do is win one fight against one of the worst champions at 140 in 140`s history and he gets put back in the top 10? Yeah ok buddy :roll:

Hatton has only ever been beaten by 1 fighter, and he was the current P4P no. 1, he has since had 2 victories against decent level opposition, why shouldnt he be in at the lower end of the top 10?

[scurlaruntings]

Hatton has only ever been beaten by 1 fighter, and he was the current P4P no. 1, he has since had 2 victories against decent level opposition, why shouldnt he be in at the lower end of the top 10?Wow P4P is soooo subjective now that no one seems to know exactly what it means. :roll:

[Cobbler]

Wow P4P is soooo subjective now that no one seems to know exactly what it means. :roll:

Of course it's subjective, or probably 'speculative' better describes it. That's the entire point.

But joining in a discussion on it, then dismissing it on that basis, is like joining a discussion on what lottery numbers people are choosing this week, then sneering at others for choosing in an unscientific manner.

[scurlaruntings]

Of course it's subjective, or probably 'speculative' better describes it. That's the entire point.

But joining in a discussion on it, then dismissing it on that basis, is like joining a discussion on what lottery numbers people are choosing this week, then sneering at others for choosing in an unscientific manner.Well thats a piss poor analogy!! :lol: So Hatton according to you is one of the top 10 fighters in the world but isnt capable of moving north by 7lbs to beat the likes of Cotto Margarito Sugar Shane Cintron etc etc. He has one win over a career lightweight in a very poor display and another against one of the worst belt holders in 140`s history and that now qualifies him to be recognised as one of the top 10 fighters in the world?!?! Cobblers alright. Thats an apt username.

[warrior85]

yes,williams should no way be in the top 10,hopkins shouldnt be higher than 7 either.

[Cobbler]

So Hatton according to you is one of the top 10 fighters in the world but isnt capable of moving north by 7lbs to beat the likes of Cotto Margarito Sugar Shane Cintron etc etc. He has one win over a career lightweight in a very poor display and another against one of the worst belt holders in 140`s history and that now qualifies him to be recognised as one of the top 10 fighters in the world?!?!

Not really sure where any of that is 'according to me'....

[scurlaruntings]

Not really sure where any of that is 'according to me'....Furry Muff :D

[PaddyD1983]

The way I see it...

1] Manny Pacquiao
2] Joe Calzaghe
3] Juan Manuel Marquez
4] Israel Vazquez
5] Antonio Margarito
6] Miguel Cotto
7] Ivan Calderon
8] Raf Marquez
9] B-Hop
10] Ricky Hatton

[JonOli]

I'm hoping they drop Pac a place or 2 if he loses just for the comedy value over on the General Forum, the place will go into meltdown.:lol:

I'm sure there will be plenty of "exposed", "fraud," type threads to if pac loses to relative man giant Oscar.:roll:

[TehRileh]

Hes 10th, knocked williams out.

[Melon12345]

The Ring now have Ricky at #10. He should never have been out it though in the first place. How can Rafa Marquez stay there after two straight loses to Vasquez? Close fights, i know but its still two loses. Ricky was #5 or #6 when he fought Mayweather. How can you drop off it when your there just by losing to the #1 guy?

Its because he's british i tell ya. :lol: :patsch

Seriously though - Ricky should not have been out of the top 10. He had also moved up a weight for the fight.