"Holmes vs. Cooney" 1982...

[MRBILL]

Folks,

I love to review Larry Holmes versus Gerry Cooney from 1982. This Superbout brings back High School memories for me.. Deep down, I knew Holmes was the better man, but I was astonished by all the "White" power rooting and betting on Gerry Cooney... LOOK! Never mind the issue of Cooney's INACTVITY and constant injuries; come June 11, 1982, Gerry Cooney did indeed challenge and perform against Larry Holmes like the true / solid # 1 heavyweight contender in the world... This fight lived up to the billing and hype... Both men fought great fights... However, in the end, Larry Holmes prevailed with a 13th round KO victory..... A GREAT night of boxing........ Cheers......

MR.BILL:good

[Robbi]

Folks,

I love to review Larry Holmes versus Gerry Cooney from 1982. This Superbout brings back High School memories for me.. Deep down, I knew Holmes was the better man, but I was astonished by all the "White" power rooting and betting on Gerry Cooney... LOOK! Never mind the issue of Cooney's INACTVITY and constant injuries; come June 11, 1982, Gerry Cooney did indeed challenge and perform against Larry Holmes like the true / solid # 1 heavyweight contender in the world... This fight lived up to the billing and hype... Both men fought great fights... However, in the end, Larry Holmes prevailed with a 13th round KO victory..... A GREAT night of boxing........ Cheers......

MR.BILL:good

Ah ha, superb tussle. How the hell would Cooney have been leading on the cards outwith the point deductions? Mystery.

[ThinBlack]

Yes, very intriguing mystery.

[mr. magoo]

I don' know how much potential Gerry Cooney truly had, and frankly I don't think anyone really does. However, I can't help but wonder if he might have turned up in even better form had he fought more than just a mere 55 seconds over the previous two years, and not been completely inactive for 13 months before going in against Holmes. This was the developmental stage of Cooney's career ( of which he never grew out of ). He needed to be fighting live contenders and quality journeyman. Men who could test his abilties, take him into the later rounds, and make him work for the "W". Additionally, there was a lot of talk about time spent in drug reahab, along with Victor Valle's struggle to get Gerry to train. Top it off with some crap about a self-confidence issue, and I'd say the machine had a few broken springs.

In my mind, Gerry Cooney will forever reamain at the top of the list of fighters who tragically didn't make the best of what they had. On a positive note, he had a multi-million dollar career, and acheived his wealth while keeping his brains in tact, and not fighting to the point of disability.

[MRBILL]

What went wrong with Gerry Cooney is NO fault of Victor Valle..... Again, I thought Valle taught Cooney well in the gym....... If anything, it was Cooney's managers "Jones & Rappaport" who misguided and mismanaged Gerry Cooney's selection list of opponents to really learn from and beat..... Aside from scoring the big purse of 10 million dollars in 1982, team Cooney never really proved themselves worthy in the ring..... Them KO's over "Young, Lyle & Norton" were way over-hyped / promoted.... Cheerio....

MR.BILL

[mr. magoo]

What went wrong with Gerry Cooney is NO fault of Victor Valle..... Again, I thought Valle taught Cooney well in the gym....... If anything, it was Cooney's managers "Jones & Rappaport" who misguided and mismanaged Gerry Cooney's selection list of opponents to really learn from and beat..... Aside from scoring the big purse of 10 million dollars in 1982, team Cooney never really proved themselves worthy in the ring..... Them KO's over "Young, Lyle & Norton" were way over-hyped / promoted.... Cheerio....

MR.BILL

I wasn't blaming Valle, and I agree that he was as good a trainer as anyone. Cooney had an obligation to motivate himself, and apparently didn't.

I still think that he needed a few more decent fights before facing Holmes. The Jimmy young, John Denis, and Eddie Lopez fights were decent picks for a rising prospect. Norton and Lyle were thoroughly shot though. Mike Weaver, Tex Cobb, Leon Spinks, Trevor Berbick, Marty Monroe and Scott Ledoux, would have been decent picks around 1979-1982.

[heehoo]

Cooney was simply too green. Yes, he had that lethal left hook that knocked out many an opponent, but Holmes was far too refined, far too experience for young Gerry. It was a great fight, no doubt, one of my favorites, but the outcome I fully expected.

[jowcol]

it was Cooney's managers "Jones & Rappaport"


A British sportswriter at the time called them "Tweedledum and Tweedledumber"

For the first time in my life I placed a big-time bet on that fight. My late buddy and I laid down $500 apiece. Larry was the fav but we still got back about $370 ($870 less bet)

Cooney always reminded me of Ingo, superb talent, big punch, didn't really want to be a fighter. After a good effort against Holmes, why did he take two years off before fighting again? No heart pus!!! My $0.02

[MRBILL]

Despite not being fully tuned and honed in 1982, Gerry Cooney was indeed well coached by Vic Valle going into the title fight against Larry Holmes...... I thought Gerry Cooney handled himself well and fought on fairly even terms with Larry Holmes up until around round 10..... Come the championship rounds, Larry Holmes' skill and experience began to take over...... Regardless, "Holmes-Cooney" was a great fight; not a mismatch at all.... Gerry Cooney came to fight and win, but he just was in there with a guy who was truly great...... Peace...

MR.BILL

[JohnThomas1]

I thought Gerry Cooney handled himself well and fought on fairly even terms with Larry Holmes up until around round 10

I'd call it "competitive" terms. Holmes was in control and it should have been reflected in the scoring.

Rememember too this was a very safety first Holmes wanting to snuff out any chance Cooney had by dragging him into the later rounds and mugging him.

If this wasn't such a name fight Holmes may well have finished him early when he had him a bit hurt.

Great event.

[MRBILL]

I believe Jerry Roth had an honest scorecard going on in the fight.... The other two judges were really giving Gerry Cooney all the breaks they could.... I think some judges give points to fighters who simply come forward..... Cooney did press Holmes, but it was Holmes scoring the most points and controlling the fight by boxing.......

MR.BILL

P.S.

Just like Nick Valuev getting points by plodding forward with Holyfield last week...... Valuev's jab and right cross was largely ineffective, but, he still got points for it..... In reality, Holy outboxed Valuev by a fairly wide margin..... Peace....

[Adaptation]

Scoring cards for that fight are freaking weird. Had Cooney not lost points and lasted 15... theres a chance he would have won. Cooney winning that fight would have been a huge robbery in boxing history.

[MRBILL]

Scoring cards for that fight are freaking weird. Had Cooney not lost points and lasted 15... theres a chance he would have won. Cooney winning that fight would have been a huge robbery in boxing history.

YES! But, being that Gerry Cooney is a white boy, in 1982, America would've bought into it with a smile..... The Robbery would've been over-looked at that time..... Larry Holmes needed to close the show with a KO or TKO, or else suffer a good butt reaming... Larry Holmes TKO'd Gerry Cooney in round 13.... That was the right thing to do for Holmes.....:yep

MR.BILL:deal

[The Kurgan]

It was one of those highly-hyped 1980s bouts that lived up to the publicity. Hagler-Leonard was pathetic. Duran-Hagler was decent but not the war one might expect. Holmes-Tyson was an annihilation, as was Tyson-Spinks. Hearns-Leonard II was the story of two boxers who'd forgotten how to follow up on chances. Duran-Leonard II and III were organised robberies of the PPV purchasers.

Holmes-Cooney was 13 rounds of hard action, even if Cooney had only won 3 or 4 rounds up to the stoppage point. It wasn't that Holmes was toying, in my opinion: I think he had a chance to win it early, played it safe, and paid the consequences because of the pace and heat. In the later rounds, Holmes was tired; it's a testament to Holmes's underrated finishing ability that he was able to follow up in such a state of exhaustion. As with the first Weaver fight, Holmes showed that he was dangerous even when he could barely find the energy to throw punches.

[JohnThomas1]

Duran-Leonard II and III were organised robberies of the PPV purchasers.


What's your rational behind this one? No one could possibly forsee Duran quitting.

[Robbi]

Holmes-Cooney was 13 rounds of hard action, even if Cooney had only won 3 or 4 rounds up to the stoppage point. It wasn't that Holmes was toying, in my opinion: I think he had a chance to win it early, played it safe, and paid the consequences because of the pace and heat.

Holmes was very respectful of Cooney's power, and admitted it afterwards. He never wanted to 'open up' and go all guns blazing after the knockdown.

[MRBILL]

What's your rational behind this one? No one could possibly forsee Duran quitting.

The '80 rematch was actually a decent fight up until Duran said: F@#K IT
in round 8....... That is where folks felt cheated and ripped..... Fight # 3 in '89 sucked long trouser snake deep..... That was a PPV sparring match....

MR.BILL:roll:

[MRBILL]

Holmes was very respectful of Cooney's power, and admitted it afterwards. He never wanted to 'open up' and go all guns blazing after the knockdown.

In June, outside in Vegas, its a 100 degrees under them ring lights.... 15 rds is a long way to go when matched against a dude 6' 6" tall and 225 pounds who is a mere age 25....

MR.BILL:yep

[ChrisPontius]

It was one of those highly-hyped 1980s bouts that lived up to the publicity. Hagler-Leonard was pathetic. Duran-Hagler was decent but not the war one might expect. Holmes-Tyson was an annihilation, as was Tyson-Spinks. Hearns-Leonard II was the story of two boxers who'd forgotten how to follow up on chances. Duran-Leonard II and III were organised robberies of the PPV purchasers.

Holmes-Cooney was 13 rounds of hard action, even if Cooney had only won 3 or 4 rounds up to the stoppage point. It wasn't that Holmes was toying, in my opinion: I think he had a chance to win it early, played it safe, and paid the consequences because of the pace and heat. In the later rounds, Holmes was tired; it's a testament to Holmes's underrated finishing ability that he was able to follow up in such a state of exhaustion. As with the first Weaver fight, Holmes showed that he was dangerous even when he could barely find the energy to throw punches.

That was one of the fights in which Holmes' stamina really impressed me. He was still throwing snappy jabs and combinations when he was very tired. Perhaps his finest performance.


On Leonard-Hagler, why call it pathetic? It was regarded as an execution of Leonard with Hagler the bigger man and Leonard retired for a few years, yet it was highly competitive and highly controversial. Whenever the fight comes up even now, twenty five years later, threads still go ten pages in no time... even Lewis-Klitschko pales by comparison. I think that fight delivered big time.

[Robbi]

In June, outside in Vegas, its a 100 degrees under them ring lights.... 15 rds is a long way to go when matched against a dude 6' 6" tall and 225 pounds who is a mere age 25....

MR.BILL:yep

Cooney had never been past 8 rounds before tackling Holmes. Forgetting the benefit of hindsight, Holmes had a cushion in his mind about going into the late rounds and coping better. Cooney was unknown in deep water, Holmes wasn't.

[MRBILL]

Cooney had never been past 8 rounds before tackling Holmes. Forgetting the benefit of hindsight, Holmes had a cushion in his mind about going into the late rounds and coping better. Cooney was unknown in deep water, Holmes wasn't.

Holmes being a tactical type of fighter liked to get his man drunk before he tried to mug him....:think

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

That was one of the fights in which Holmes' stamina really impressed me. He was still throwing snappy jabs and combinations when he was very tired. Perhaps his finest performance.


On Leonard-Hagler, why call it pathetic? It was regarded as an execution of Leonard with Hagler the bigger man and Leonard retired for a few years, yet it was highly competitive and highly controversial. Whenever the fight comes up even now, twenty five years later, threads still go ten pages in no time... even Lewis-Klitschko pales by comparison. I think that fight delivered big time.

"Hagler-Leonard" of '87 gets a bad rap because nobody was dropped, cut or stopped..... A fight that gets that much hype is suppose to end with a BANG in the eyes and minds of the typical onlooker..... It was a tactical display of skills that evening; not brute power.....

MR.BILL:deal

[ChrisPontius]

"Hagler-Leonard" of '87 gets a bad rap because nobody was dropped, cut or stopped..... A fight that gets that much hype is suppose to end with a BANG in the eyes and minds of the typical onlooker..... It was a tactical display of skills that evening; not brute power.....

MR.BILL:deal

Yet it's more discussed than any other heavyweight or non-heavyweight 80's bout.

[Robbi]

Yet it's more discussed than any other heavyweight or non-heavyweight 80's bout.

How did you score it?

[MRBILL]

Yet it's more discussed than any other heavyweight or non-heavyweight 80's bout.

That's simply to explain..... Hagler and Leonard are BOTH ring legends..... The 1980's had some good heavyweight title fights, but never against two PRIME legends...... The closest we came was in '88 with "Tyson-Spinks." And that fight sucked......:blood

MR.BILL

[spion]

I believe Cooney is another fighter that began to believe his managers and the press as to his invincibility from all the early career victories. Once beaten, his aura of invincibility was gone not only in the mind of potential opponents but in his own as well. This has happened to many fighters over the years. Cooney took it extremely poorly and was never able to regain his form or desire.

Cooney's team ideally should have pushed him with a few tougher fights to test his stamina and will. If he should win those fights he would have been a lot more dangerous. As it was, Gerry gave all he had in the challenge to Holmes and for that one night he was pretty damn good.

[The Kurgan]

That was one of the fights in which Holmes' stamina really impressed me. He was still throwing snappy jabs and combinations when he was very tired. Perhaps his finest performance.

The early 1980s saw a lot of good performances from Larry. His performance against Spinks was basically the whole package: moving and leading his opponent into counters; working on the front foot behind the stiff jab; and firing lightning-fast combinations when he cornered Leon.

On Leonard-Hagler, why call it pathetic? It was regarded as an execution of Leonard with Hagler the bigger man and Leonard retired for a few years, yet it was highly competitive and highly controversial. Whenever the fight comes up even now, twenty five years later, threads still go ten pages in no time... even Lewis-Klitschko pales by comparison. I think that fight delivered big time.

It was boring. People can talk about it all they want: I've seen it once and have no interest in seeing such a non-event again.

[The Kurgan]

Holmes was very respectful of Cooney's power, and admitted it afterwards. He never wanted to 'open up' and go all guns blazing after the knockdown.

Probably a good idea, although I think the fact that Cooney was left-hook orientated meant that Holmes was in little real danger. However, after the Snipes fight (wasn't it?), it's understandable.

[MRBILL]

Cooney had a great / hard hook shot, but I hated his pawing jab and gimpy right paw...... Plus, Cooney's inactivity and penchant for kayoing old farts always bothered me...... Holmes at 212 pounds was a master on June 11, 1982 in Vegas... Cooney looked in great shape at 225........... I love this fight tape.........

MR.BILL

[Bummy Davis]

In June, outside in Vegas, its a 100 degrees under them ring lights.... 15 rds is a long way to go when matched against a dude 6' 6" tall and 225 pounds who is a mere age 25....

MR.BILL:yep

Cooney had 2) 1 rd KO's in 2 years and never fought past 8 rds. As a matter of fact Cooney from 12/18/79 to 6/10/82 the day before Holmes/Cooney gerry only fought less than 6 rds. He tKO'd Young in 1,5/25/80 then Ko'd Lyle 10/25/80 then Norton Ko1 5/11/81...the Max rds Gerry went was 8...Larry knew rds were Gerry's enemy

[Sardu]

Met Gerry Cooney in Newark airport about one year ago... Has to be one of the nicest, warmest human beings one could ever hope to meet... Larry Holmes considers Cooney to be one of the only true friends he has... Says Gerry would be there for him thru thick and thin unlike most.... Cooney has helped many with his foundation for ex-fighters F.I.S.T.

[MRBILL]

Cooney had 2) 1 rd KO's in 2 years and never fought past 8 rds. As a matter of fact Cooney from 12/18/79 to 6/10/82 the day before Holmes/Cooney gerry only fought less than 6 rds. He tKO'd Young in 1,5/25/80 then Ko'd Lyle 10/25/80 then Norton Ko1 5/11/81...the Max rds Gerry went was 8...Larry knew rds were Gerry's enemy

Yes... But I'm goddamn sure that Vic Valle had Cooney fight a few "Gym" fights to help shake off some rust......... Cooney looked okay / good for the first 10 rds...... After round 10, Cooney's Irish "Green" began to surface... Holmes took notice and seized the moment.......

MR.BILL:hat

[MRBILL]

Duane Ford & Dave Morietti were BOTH biased judges who were licking Cooney's ball-sack during the fight for as long as possible......... Jerry Roth was the ONLY judge in tune with the picture on hand during the evening of June 11, 1982 in Vegas......... No way, points or no points, was Cooney winning the fight after round 10.......... NAW!!! Total bullshit...... Holmes was the Ringmaster......... Peace.....

MR.BILL:deal:bbb

[I am Legion]

The hype surrounding the fight in the UK was huge; daily reports from the training camps on the main news programmes. The focus was always on Cooney being and white and hugely powerful.

I was a big Holmes fan and never really thought Cooney had a chance but respect to Cooney he gave Larry a tough fight but the outcome was never really in doubt.

Holmes was a real Ring General and knew how to control fights and I agree with the other poster that Holmes vs Spinks was his finest moment; that night it all came together a bit like Ali vs Cleveland Williams.

[MRBILL]

I love to review "Holmes-Cooney." I was just getting out of my freshman year in school back in June of '82...... Holmes was a master and bitter champion, while Cooney was hyped and over-paid throughout his career........ But, again, I stress that Cooney rose to the occasion to give Holmes and the fans a great PPV fight....... The PPV was 20 bucks in Los Angeles.......

I love the sneaky right-cross that Holmes hit Cooney with in round 2 to drop the Irishman........ A well timed shot to Cooney's left eye / temple.....

MR.BILL

[JohnThomas1]

But, again, I stress that Cooney rose to the occasion to give Holmes and the fans a great PPV fight

Did Cooney rise to the occasion or was Holmes simply ultra cautious and taking the path of least resistance?


This is an easy question.

[MRBILL]

Did Cooney rise to the occasion or was Holmes simply ultra cautious and taking the path of least resistance?


This is an easy question.

No... That ain't easy to answer.......... Holmes boxed Cooney from the outset by sticking, moving and keeping at bay from Cooney's power shots for the first "5" rds that I could see... However, Cooney did get off with some vicious hooks to Holmes' mid-section during that period...

Holmes settled down in round 6 and gave Cooney a good going over in which Cooney was staggering to remain upright........... Cooney was warm then and took Holmes' blows well..........

Cooney was physically strong at 225 pounds in 1982.... He lacked certain finess and grace, but he made up for it in size and power......

I thought Cooney had good strength and power in his body all the way up to the 10th round, then he began to wilt / tire a bit..... Holmes was also feeling the heat of the Vegas desert and was winded himself.... Still, Holmes was the seasoned veteran with the vast amount of experience over a game Cooney.........
:happy:deal:thumbsup:hat

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

Ah ha, superb tussle. How the hell would Cooney have been leading on the cards outwith the point deductions? Mystery.

Simple... Judges Duane Ford and David Morietti were both biased fools, while Jerry Roth was on the level....... Cheers......

MR.BILL:bbb

[turpinr]

i was sure,at the time,that larry would get rid of cooney inside 6

[turpinr]

Met Gerry Cooney in Newark airport about one year ago... Has to be one of the nicest, warmest human beings one could ever hope to meet... Larry Holmes considers Cooney to be one of the only true friends he has... Says Gerry would be there for him thru thick and thin unlike most.... Cooney has helped many with his foundation for ex-fighters F.I.S.T.thats good to hear:good

[JohnThomas1]

i was sure,at the time,that larry would get rid of cooney inside 6


He would have if he'd really wanted to.

[The Morlocks]

No... That ain't easy to answer.......... Holmes boxed Cooney from the outset by sticking, moving and keeping at bay from Cooney's power shots for the first "5" rds that I could see... However, Cooney did get off with some vicious hooks to Holmes' mid-section during that period...

Holmes settled down in round 6 and gave Cooney a good going over in which Cooney was staggering to remain upright........... Cooney was warm then and took Holmes' blows well..........

Cooney was physically strong at 225 pounds in 1982.... He lacked certain finess and grace, but he made up for it in size and power......

I thought Cooney had good strength and power in his body all the way up to the 10th round, then he began to wilt / tire a bit..... Holmes was also feeling the heat of the Vegas desert and was winded himself.... Still, Holmes was the seasoned veteran with the vast amount of experience over a game Cooney.........
:happy:deal:thumbsup:hat

MR.BILL
It was so hot under the kleig lights that holmes entire bottoms of his feet blistered and were bleeding at the end of the fight.

[turpinr]

He would have if he'd really wanted to.
that was what i thought

[MRBILL]

It was so hot under the kleig lights that holmes entire bottoms of his feet blistered and were bleeding at the end of the fight.

I never heard that story about Holmes' feet after the 'Cooney' fight of '82.

I heard a story just like that about Roger Mayweather after he barely retained his 140 lb. title against Harold Brazier in 1988... That is an underrated and often forgotten classic title fight...

MR.BILL:good

[itrymariti]

He would have if he'd really wanted to.

I agree. I always got the feeling that Holmes realised early that he could get Cooney out of there whenever he really wanted, and decided to sit back, let Cooney tire himself out, wear him down with the jab and then look to finish him for sure. I don't think he quite "carried" Cooney, but it certainly looked like he was letting the fight run a bit.

[MRBILL]

I agree. I always got the feeling that Holmes realised early that he could get Cooney out of there whenever he really wanted, and decided to sit back, let Cooney tire himself out, wear him out for the jab and then look to finish him for sure. I don't think he quite "carried" Cooney, but it certainly looked like he was letting the fight run a bit.

Yeah, well, after them low blows to Holmes' balls from Cooney you'd think Ol' Larry would've wanted Cooney gone right then and there, but the fight went on until round 13.... It was a damn good fight for 1982...
:thumbsup:deal

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

What's your rational behind this one? No one could possibly forsee Duran quitting.

"Duran-SRL 2" was a fluke scenario, but part # 3 just totally sucked the bone deep..... However, the hell has this to do with Holmes and Cooney?

MR.BILL:yikes

[MRBILL]

The early 1980s saw a lot of good performances from Larry. His performance against Spinks was basically the whole package: moving and leading his opponent into counters; working on the front foot behind the stiff jab; and firing lightning-fast combinations when he cornered Leon.



It was boring. People can talk about it all they want: I've seen it once and have no interest in seeing such a non-event again.

"Holmes-Cooney" was boring? I strongly disagree with that notion...... I love that title fight of the 80s........ It delivered the goods---If you were a 'Holmes' fan..... I AM!!!
:deal:thumbsup

MR.BILL

[JohnThomas1]

"Duran-SRL 2" was a fluke scenario, but part # 3 just totally sucked the bone deep..... However, the hell has this to do with Holmes and Cooney?

MR.BILL:yikes

You do realise you'd already addressed that exact quote over a year ago, right? :lol:

[MRBILL]

You do realise you'd already addressed that exact quote over a year ago, right? :lol:

Naw... I spaced..... I was so tweaked last night.... Totally lit.....:yikes

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

"Holmes-Cooney" of '82 is STILL one of my all-time favs to review....... TRUTH!

I love that heavyweight title fight...... I do...... Really.......

MR.BILL

[Thread Stealer]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[MRBILL]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I have the entire fight on a couple of tapes......... I LOVE IT!!

This was HUGE in '82......

Great fight.......... Cooney did great for such inactivity........ His gym work with Valle was impressive in 1982......... WORD!

MR.BILL

[Thread Stealer]

It was a damn good fight for 1982...


1982 had some really great fights. Pryor-Arguello 1, Chacon-Limon 4, Gomez-Pintor. Mancini-Kim ended in tragedy but it was supposed to be a terrific fight (I have little interest in seeing it). Holmes-Cooney was a good fight. Hearns-Benitez may have not been all that exciting, but an excellent performance by Tommy against another great fighter.

[MRBILL]

1982 had some really great fights. Pryor-Arguello 1, Chacon-Limon 4, Gomez-Pintor. Mancini-Kim ended in tragedy but it was supposed to be a terrific fight (I have little interest in seeing it). Holmes-Cooney was a good fight. Hearns-Benitez may have not been all that exciting, but an excellent performance by Tommy against another great fighter.

"Mancini-Kim" was great....... No mismatch....... Shit just happens...... Kim was there until the end........

MR.BILL:bbb

[turpinr]

i remember thinking holmes would do cooney early.cooney's left hook to the scrotum was awesome though

[MRBILL]

1982 had some really great fights. Pryor-Arguello 1, Chacon-Limon 4, Gomez-Pintor. Mancini-Kim ended in tragedy but it was supposed to be a terrific fight (I have little interest in seeing it). Holmes-Cooney was a good fight. Hearns-Benitez may have not been all that exciting, but an excellent performance by Tommy against another great fighter.

The late 70s to middle 80s were my favorite and peak years of taping fights off regular TV........ Dammit, I miss them years---NOW!!:think:hey:thumbsup

Here in 2010, TV fights are long gone and cable TV fights are either over-hyped or headed for PPV........ SAD!:roll::shock::|

Boxing is still in my blood, but the racket / game now sucks compared to the heated action of 25 years ago.......
:deal:bbb

MR.BILL:hat

[MRBILL]

Anyone 40 or older who saw the 1982 event have any of the undercard on file for copying? I need "Berbick-Page" and "Tillis-Shavers."

MR.BILL:bbb:deal

[techks]

Anyone 40 or older who saw the 1982 event have any of the undercard on file for copying? I need "Berbick-Page" and "Tillis-Shavers."

MR.BILL:bbb:deal

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Here you go. Tillis-Shavers is on yt but I couldn't find Berbick-Page. I don't have either fight but you can view Tillis-Shavers on the link I provided.

[tommygun711]

Anyone 40 or older who saw the 1982 event have any of the undercard on file for copying? I need "Berbick-Page" and "Tillis-Shavers."

MR.BILL:bbb:deal


Bill
I hope you realize you can download youtube videos and put them on dvds to watch them on your tv
if thats why you don't like them then its very easy to fix

[MRBILL]

Computers are complicated to me...... I'm very basic..... I blog, e-mail and post on ESB.... Okay, I also look info up on Google.... Aside from that, I'm anti computer... I was so stoked to see my old vet who tends to my cat still using paper cards and a file cabinet..... YEAH!!

MR.BILL

[tommygun711]

Computers are complicated to me...... I'm very basic..... I blog, e-mail and post on ESB.... Okay, I also look info up on Google.... Aside from that, I'm anti computer... I was so stoked to see my old vet who tends to my cat still using paper cards and a file cabinet..... YEAH!!

MR.BILL

It's very easy to download and combine the fights off of youtube.. on a dvd

[Duodenum]

Computers are complicated to me...... I'm very basic..... I blog, e-mail and post on ESB.... Okay, I also look info up on Google.... Aside from that, I'm anti computer... I was so stoked to see my old vet who tends to my cat still using paper cards and a file cabinet..... YEAH!!

MR.BILLInimitable style makes up for any deficiencies you might have in that area. (I'm probably less technologically proficient than you are.) Nobody here composes and presents opinions quite like you do. You sir, are a genuine original!:good

[MRBILL]

Inimitable style makes up for any deficiencies you might have in that area. (I'm probably less technologically proficient than you are.) Nobody here composes and presents opinions quite like you do. You sir, are a genuine original!:good


This is all very true.....:think But I still have demons / issues....:scaredas:

MR.BILL:rasta

[Duodenum]

This is all very true.....:think But I still have demons / issues....:scaredas:

MR.BILL:rastaWithout our demons / issues, would this world still be interesting enough to live in? Should we all crave sameness and dullness instead?:-((:zzz

[MRBILL]

Without our demons / issues, would this world still be interesting enough to live in? Should we all crave sameness and dullness instead?:-((:zzz

The late W.C. Fields once stated: "It's the bastard who makes changes in the world."
:deal

Now, my birth was legit, so I am not a true bastard, but I am a real asshole....:p

MR.BILL:good:bbb:admin:tong:thumbsup:hat

[joebeadg]

Rappoport and Jones did a good job of getting their guy a title shot. Not a good job of getting their guyto be a long term champ, I think they said lets take the shurer thing and all get rich. He did a good job with Holmes, but Holmes is probably the greatest heavy of all time, or at least right up there with the best. And at his best. Figure Gerrys best scenario was to go in there and blow him out in a few rounds. But, in not doing that, he actually fought fairly evenly with Holmes for hat, 13 rds? He did great. What he didn't do is go out and fight some contenders right away after that loss. What a shame, what could have been?

[MRBILL]

Cooney later stated that Dennis Rappaport was kool, but co-manager Mike Jones was a money whore....... Victor Valle was pro boxing, so I give him a pass... But yes, Cooney needed ring activity..... His team failed him there......

MR.BILL

[joebeadg]

I remember reading how Jones didn't want the Young fight. Thats confidence, huh?

[MRBILL]

Young trained hard for Cooney, but was past his best nights in 1980 and was cut badly in the fight by Cooney's powerful hook...

Young's eye and nose wounds against Cooney were pretty equal to that of V.K.'s cuts against Lewis in 2003... Both men suffered waicked ass cuts in them fights against "Cooney and Lewis." GODDAMMIT!!

MR.BILL

[Miketyson2007]

Hagler v Leonard was pathetic whys that I enjoyed it at the time and have since and think the right man won too.

[MRBILL]

Hagler v Leonard was pathetic whys that I enjoyed it at the time and have since and think the right man won too.
:huh:shock::rofl

Kool... But that's a bit vague and off topic.... Cheerio....:admin:nono

MR.BILL:hat

[The Morlocks]

Cooney later stated that Dennis Rappaport was kool, but co-manager Mike Jones was a money whore....... Victor Valle was pro boxing, so I give him a pass... But yes, Cooney needed ring activity..... His team failed him there......

MR.BILL
Cooney failed himself. He had the classic bully mentality and was a ring coward who looked everytime for the easy path and opponant. The only reason he fought Spinks when retired was because he was bigger and thought he would have an weasy win for the title. He wanted no part of real contenders in a climb to the title. He was the biggest bum and coward I've seen in 47 years in the sport. and he still blames others to this day for his lack of intestinal fortitude and tenacity. Cooney fans are the most brainwashed idiots I've ever dealt with.:hi:

[salsanchezfan]

Cooney failed himself. He had the classic bully mentality and was a ring coward who looked everytime for the easy path and opponant. The only reason he fought Spinks when retired was because he was bigger and thought he would have an weasy win for the title. He wanted no part of real contenders in a climb to the title. He was the biggest bum and coward I've seen in 47 years in the sport. and he still blames others to this day for his lack of intestinal fortitude and tenacity. Cooney fans are the most brainwashed idiots I've ever dealt with.:hi:

How many contenders YOU fight in your time? :roll:

[Duodenum]

Young trained hard for Cooney, but was past his best nights in 1980 and was cut badly in the fight by Cooney's powerful hook...Ironically, MB, it wasn't a left hook at all, but a vastly improved right hand that was responsible for the decisive cut. At 1:24 of the Google Video Part 2 of their bout, you will see it. A long right splits Jimmy's guard, immediately followed by a hook to the body, just as a long right from Frazier tore open Jerry Quarry's face in their rematch five years earlier. (Immediately after that head cross-body hook combination, you can see Young dabbing at the freshly opened cut with his right glove.)

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Valle and Gerry worked hard on developing Cooney's right hand, and it paid off against Young. Later, he initially stunned Norton with a right, and flattened undefeated Philipp Brown with yet another right in 1984. Strangely, Gerry got away from using that right against Holmes, and it cost him. Ultimately though, his right hand did become arguably better than Ingo's hook.

[MRBILL]

I'll have to check the youtube clip against Jimmy Young.... I know Valle and Cooney worked on getting the right hand up to par as a pro, but I still hated the way he (Cooney) kinda' slapped with it...

Converted southpaws never seen to snap a good right cross for spit... That also applies to Razor Ruddock as well... Remember when Ruddock had Dokes out in the corner in round 4 and Ruddock zinged a right hand that missed, but then followed up with two more hooks that left Dokes down on his side out like a bulb...?

MR.BILL

[salsanchezfan]

I'll have to check the youtube clip against Jimmy Young.... I know Valle and Cooney worked on getting the right hand up to par as a pro, but I still hated the way he (Cooney) kinda' slapped with it...

Converted southpaws never seen to snap a good right cross for spit... That also applies to Razor Ruddock as well... Remember when Ruddock had Dokes out in the corner in round 4 and Ruddock zinged a right hand that missed, but then followed up with two more hooks that left Dokes down on his side out like a bulb...?

MR.BILL

Good point. A good right hand would have served Ruddock very well in the Tyson rematch. He had Tyson ready to go on a couple occasions there, but he only knew how to wing one big punch at a time, almost always with the left hand. That's not gonna work with a Tyson, where you needed to wear him down with repeated combinations.

[MRBILL]

If I were handling a southpaw, I'd keep him as a southpaw...... Ala "Whitaker and Camacho." I don't believe in changing a good pattern that's effective...

Virgil Hill is another converted southpaw who owns a gimpy right hand for the most part.... Hill's left jab and hook was world class, but his right hand was so-so at best...

MR.BILL

[salsanchezfan]

If I were handling a southpaw, I'd keep him as a southpaw...... Ala "Whitaker and Camacho." I don't believe in changing a good pattern that's effective...

Virgil Hill is another converted southpaw who owns a gimpy right hand for the most part.... Hill's left jab and hook was world class, but his right hand was so-so at best...

MR.BILL

For the most part I agree, though with Hill that worked out pretty damn well. That left jab (and his movement) were hard to overcome.

[MRBILL]

I honestly feel Virgil Hill should be in the IBHOF, but too many critics like to whine that he fought a lotta' sorry-ass farmers during his two reigns at 175 and he didn't do much at 190 pounds.... However, he gets my vote....

MR.BILL

[tommygun711]

IMO converted southpaws end up being one handed. Joe frazier was a converted southpaw too, I think?
Cooney would have been a much better balanced puncher had he been a regular southpaw

[MRBILL]

I've never seen a converted southpaw who actually became a good two-fisted fighter... It's very true that converted southpaws rely way too heavily on the left hand...

Odd thing is, I am a southpaw, and I refused to change as a tennie-bopper of the 1980s... But I never could jab for shit with my left, my right jab is my comfort zone... As is my right hook... However, I cross over with my left as well as uppercut with the left, too...

I'm a legit southpaw....

I also bat left handed...

MR.BILL

[salsanchezfan]

Just for conversation's sake, it's kind of interesting that Michael Moorer is actually right-handed.

[Duodenum]

Just for conversation's sake, it's kind of interesting that Michael Moorer is actually right-handed.So is Jim Watt. Slower than most lightweights, but had a very good right jab and well developed sense of rhythm. Simply found he was more comfortable boxing out of the southpaw stance.

[tommygun711]

Odd thing is, I am a southpaw, and I refused to change as a tennie-bopper of the 1980s... But I never could jab for shit with my left, my right jab is my comfort zone... As is my right hook... However, I cross over with my left as well as uppercut with the left, too...

I'm a legit southpaw....


MR.BILL

You boxed Bill?
I'm assuming just as an amateur
When I box I'm always orthodox.. I sometimes switch to southpaw though sometimes because I'm right handed.. Therefore I can get my powerhand out more.. It makes sense

[MRBILL]

Just for conversation's sake, it's kind of interesting that Michael Moorer is actually right-handed.

Moorer just might be my top pick as best man who has been converted in style one way or the other... I've got shit on for being too friendly and kind in explaining his once underrated boxing skills... Moorer threw nice combos' when he was heated up and going at it...
:deal:thumbsup:bbb

MR.BILL:hat

[MRBILL]

I copped a buzz tonight on Bourbon, so I broke out my tape of "Larry vs. Gerry" from 1982... It's still one of my top-10 ATG heavyweight title fights to review on a regular basis... I was getting outta 9th grade when the actual event transpired... MEMORIES!!

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

Haters can say what they will about L. Holmes' leg speed and movement, but against G. Cooney in 1982, the 32 year old Holmes was very agile and quick on two legs.... His lateral movement was tops and to the point in 1982 against Cooney and Cobb.......... It 'twas.... WORD!!

MR.BILL:hat:deal:bbb:thumbsup

[MRBILL]

:fire:blood:dealYou boxed Bill?
I'm assuming just as an amateur
When I box I'm always orthodox.. I sometimes switch to southpaw though sometimes because I'm right handed.. Therefore I can get my powerhand out more.. It makes sense

I was 18-6 with (9) KO's in the early to mid-80s at the Boys Club in Southern CA... I ruined my shoulder doing a part-time construction job in that era, and wrecked my right shoulder.... Then my bro's turned me onto weed and beer and, well, it went to hell (Boxing) from that point onward... DAMMIT!!
:roll::scaredas::|:patsch

MR.BILL :twisted:

[The Morlocks]

[quote=salsanchezfan;8130946]How many contenders YOU fight in your time? :roll:[/quo
5. have you figured out who i am yet? Cooney fought zippo. he was the pampered pussy who had it easy and given to him and that is how he liked it. He did fight aadmirably against Holmes, but before and after, a pureD ring coward. A disgrace to the sport.:deadI will never forget at the Moore-Duran fight in the garden, when they were bringing in all the champs ( Pedroza, Laguna, Curry, Mancini, Hagler, Bill Gallo) and then anounced Cooney. Peopple filled the Garden with boos. Say his name to this day in a knowledgeable boxing crowd or a bunch of ex-fighters who fought hard to get to the top, and you will hear nothing but scorn for the man. Jim Croce had a great song,"The Hard Way Every Time>" Cooney's would have been the easy way every time. If you were truly there during the time , then you know he was considered a frightened disgrace, by the end.

[salsanchezfan]

[quote=salsanchezfan;8130946]How many contenders YOU fight in your time? :roll:[/quo
5. have you figured out who i am yet? Cooney fought zippo. he was the pampered pussy who had it easy and given to him and that is how he liked it. He did fight aadmirably against Holmes, but before and after, a pureD ring coward. A disgrace to the sport.:deadI will never forget at the Moore-Duran fight in the garden, when they were bringing in all the champs ( Pedroza, Laguna, Curry, Mancini, Hagler, Bill Gallo) and then anounced Cooney. Peopple filled the Garden with boos. Say his name to this day in a knowledgeable boxing crowd or a bunch of ex-fighters who fought hard to get to the top, and you will hear nothing but scorn for the man. Jim Croce had a great song,"The Hard Way Every Time>" Cooney's would have been the easy way every time. If you were truly there during the time , then you know he was considered a frightened disgrace, by the end.


:lol:

Dude, you're frothing. Go clean up your spittle.

[The Morlocks]

[quote=The Morlocks;8146512]


:lol:

Dude, you're frothing. Go clean up your spittle.
Sorry, I may be crazy myself, but the Loony Cooney express train goes on forever. He gets more credit for what he would have done if... than what he did than anyone I've seen Almost all fighters accept the risks of fighting their way to the top and chancing agaonst hard contenders. Cooney wouldn't, and thus, should be condemned for avoiding the hard road. No diff from fighting than from in a reg. job, where some suckass gets the prom. but does none of the work. Anyone should be able to understand that.:pukke

[salsanchezfan]

[quote=salsanchezfan;8146660]
Sorry, I may be crazy myself, but the Loony Cooney express train goes on forever. He gets more credit for what he would have done if... than what he did than anyone I've seen Almost all fighters accept the risks of fighting their way to the top and chancing agaonst hard contenders. Cooney wouldn't, and thus, should be condemned for avoiding the hard road. No diff from fighting than from in a reg. job, where some suckass gets the prom. but does none of the work. Anyone should be able to understand that.:pukke


I hope you realize that Cooney didn't make the decisions about whom he was fighting. That's a fighter's braintrust's job. Same with Patterson not fighting Liston. Was Patterson a coward for not fighting Liston for so long?

How do you know that Cooney didn't want to prove himself? Were you alongside him, or inside his head?

Cooney, as we know, had doubts about his worth as a fighter, and was probably not meant for the game long-term anyway. For him to suck it up and take part (courageously, I might add) in the biggest mega-fight of the generation against Holmes is not the work of a coward. It's far more than most here could stomach without peeing their pants.

I guess my stance remains the same; when you can live in the pressure-cooker he did and respond with the heroics you claim he lacked, then sing it from the mountaintop. As it is, the world's got too goddamn many armchair warriors.

[mr. magoo]

[quote=The Morlocks;8146711]


I hope you realize that Cooney didn't make the decisions about whom he was fighting. That's a fighter's braintrust's job. Same with Patterson not fighting Liston. Was Patterson a coward for not fighting Liston for so long?

How do you know that Cooney didn't want to prove himself? Were you alongside him, or inside his head?

Cooney, as we know, had doubts about his worth as a fighter, and was probably not meant for the game long-term anyway. For him to suck it up and take part (courageously, I might add) in the biggest mega-fight of the generation against Holmes is not the work of a coward. It's far more than most here could stomach without peeing their pants.

I guess my stance remains the same; when you can live in the pressure-cooker he did and respond with the heroics you claim he lacked, then sing it from the mountaintop. As it is, the world's got too goddamn many armchair warriors.

Agreed,

While the man's name has been exploded beyond reasonable proportions over the past 30 years, calling him a coward is taking things drastically in the opposite direction. There are few who weigh his resume and head to head abilities within balanced permaters. I for one do not think that he was the mega great white hope who never fullfilled his potential, the way that some see him as, and nor am I someone who feels that he would have just crumbled against any opponent with a heart beat. My guess is that his abilities fall somewhere in between.

[MRBILL]

Cooney was no coward, but he was coddled by his management...

I say Vic Valle got Cooney ready for Holmes in 1982 the best he could do under the circumstances surrounding the Cooney camp... For being green in 1982, Cooney performed very well for 10 rds...

MR.BILL

[The Morlocks]

[quote=The Morlocks;8146711]


I hope you realize that Cooney didn't make the decisions about whom he was fighting. That's a fighter's braintrust's job. Same with Patterson not fighting Liston. Was Patterson a coward for not fighting Liston for so long?

How do you know that Cooney didn't want to prove himself? Were you alongside him, or inside his head?

Cooney, as we know, had doubts about his worth as a fighter, and was probably not meant for the game long-term anyway. For him to suck it up and take part (courageously, I might add) in the biggest mega-fight of the generation against Holmes is not the work of a coward. It's far more than most here could stomach without peeing their pants.

I guess my stance remains the same; when you can live in the pressure-cooker he did and respond with the heroics you claim he lacked, then sing it from the mountaintop. As it is, the world's got too goddamn many armchair warriors.
Any fighter can insist to fight contenders. Cooney stayed away, fought two used up guys then didn't fight period. Saw what he thought was an easy rd to the top thru small mike Spinks, got hit back and collapsed. He had a cockiness about him when you read the intervi. in the mags at the time and was no shrinking violet. He wanted no part of contenders and or hard punchers and thought he was the shit. He hid behind his whiteness and took whatever free givens came his way. the GUY WAS A COWARDLY BUM WHO WOULD CROSS THE STREET IF A CONTENDER WASD ON THE SAME SIDE AS HIM. No revisionist history will EVER change the facts of his career.:pissCOONEY

[salsanchezfan]

[quote=salsanchezfan;8147145]
Any fighter can insist to fight contenders. Cooney stayed away, fought two used up guys then didn't fight period. Saw what he thought was an easy rd to the top thru small mike Spinks, got hit back and collapsed. He had a cockiness about him when you read the intervi. in the mags at the time and was no shrinking violet. He wanted no part of contenders and or hard punchers and thought he was the shit. He hid behind his whiteness and took whatever free givens came his way. the GUY WAS A COWARDLY BUM WHO WOULD CROSS THE STREET IF A CONTENDER WASD ON THE SAME SIDE AS HIM. No revisionist history will EVER change the facts of his career.:pissCOONEY


I'd say someone here has a case of the "Mondays."

[D9Garrard]

I think someone didn't get enough naps when they were little.

[MagnaNasakki]

Trained with Gerry when I was younger. He was class, till his work ethic started to fade. Everybody sure got excited for the Holmes go around, though. I was a pup, and Ger was never the same afterwards.

[MRBILL]

Trained with Gerry when I was younger. He was class, till his work ethic started to fade. Everybody sure got excited for the Holmes go around, though. I was a pup, and Ger was never the same afterwards.

Did the 1982 'Holmes' 10 million dollar payday effect him and his outlook?:huh

MR.BILL:hat

[MRBILL]

I think someone didn't get enough naps when they were little.

The hell?:huh

MR.BILL:bbb

[frankenfrank]

Folks,

I love to review Larry Holmes versus Gerry Cooney from 1982. This Superbout brings back High School memories for me.. Deep down, I knew Holmes was the better man, but I was astonished by all the "White" power rooting and betting on Gerry Cooney... LOOK! Never mind the issue of Cooney's INACTVITY and constant injuries; come June 11, 1982, Gerry Cooney did indeed challenge and perform against Larry Holmes like the true / solid # 1 heavyweight contender in the world... This fight lived up to the billing and hype... Both men fought great fights... However, in the end, Larry Holmes prevailed with a 13th round KO victory..... A GREAT night of boxing........ Cheers......

MR.BILL:good
It is the first totally wrong post by you that I remember I (ever) saw .
Both fought their usual shit fight with Holmes prevailing by a poor stoppage against another shit fighter. Cooney did not even know the obvious way of fighting a bigger man's fight , he was so dumb. And Holmes was such a lousy finisher , maybe because of his poor punching ability. Watching A Holmes/Spinks/Cooney/Norton fight is a masochistic matter , even worse than watching Ali/Byrd/Jimmy Young or Dominick Guinn fight.

[MRBILL]

It is the first totally wrong post by you that I remember I (ever) saw .
Both fought their usual shit fight with Holmes prevailing by a poor stoppage against another shit fighter. Cooney did not even know the obvious way of fighting a bigger man's fight , he was so dumb. And Holmes was such a lousy finisher , maybe because of his poor punching ability. Watching A Holmes/Spinks/Cooney/Norton fight is a masochistic matter , even worse than watching Ali/Byrd/Jimmy Young or Dominick Guinn fight.

WOW! Way out there, dude........ I thought they (Larry & Gerry) fought a great fight in '82 and both rised to a level neither had been before----more so Cooney then Holmes... Larry was way more proven in good, hard fights with "Shavers, Norton, Weaver & Snipes," but Gerry C. fought well for 10 rds in 1982 before fading and losing his grip on his fight with Larry Holmes...

MR.BILL:hat

[Rico Spadafora]

This is from the May 4th 1981 issue of Sports Illustrated

Cooney wanted Cus D'Amato, who had taken Floyd Patterson to the heavyweight title, but D'Amato wanted to both train and manage the fighter, for the twins an unacceptable condition. They had to be the managers. D'Amato was one of several boxing men who recommended Puerto Rican-born Victor Valle as Cooney's trainer.


Would have been interesting to see how Cooney developed under Cus D'Amato instead of Victor Valle. I think he would have been a more well rounded fighter. Not saying Valle was not good he was very competent but I think Cooney would have been better off with someone else. The talent was there it just was not managed and molded correctly. I also would have liked to seen Cooney fight Weaver in 1982 which was certainly a more winnable fight for him then take on Holmes in 1983. Cooney simply was just not ready for Holmes in 1982. He needed more experience.

[MRBILL]

This is from the May 4th 1981 issue of Sports Illustrated




Would have been interesting to see how Cooney developed under Cus D'Amato instead of Victor Valle. I think he would have been a more well rounded fighter. Not saying Valle was not good he was very competent but I think Cooney would have been better off with someone else. The talent was there it just was not managed and molded correctly. I also would have liked to seen Cooney fight Weaver in 1982 which was certainly a more winnable fight for him then take on Holmes in 1983. Cooney simply was just not ready for Holmes in 1982. He needed more experience.

"The Whacko Twins" were only interested in money; not developing skills... They were over confident in Cooney's hook.... BIG MISTAKE!

I too would've loved to have seen Cooney go after Weaver first for the WBA title.... Cooney prolly would've parked Weaver in '82..

MR.BILL:bbb

[MRBILL]

I recently celebrated the 29th anniversary of "Holmes-Cooney" by reviewing my tape... June 11, 1982, was a great night of boxing...

BUT! Anyone who thinks Cooney wasn't game in the first 10 rds is a fool...

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

NOTE:

John Wayne croaked on June 11, 1979....:|