Greatest HW fights that never happened - how do they go

[PowerPuncher]

Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight

Lewis-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike may have taken an aging Lewis but Lewis may have been too slick

Vitali-Ike Ibeauchi - I don't think Vitalis lean beack defense would work well against Ikes pressure

Wlad-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike KO, too much pressure and power

Holmes-Foreman - Holmes UD and a much greater legacy

Foreman-Tyson - Tyson beats both old and prime Foreman for me, far better faster boxer.

Frazier-Norton - Frazier by KO but not for certain

Frazier-Shavers - Probably Frazier KO but Shavers has the punchers chance

Lyle-Frazier - Probably Frazier UD

Liston-Frazier - Liston KO, although Frazier may have taken the past prime version

Cleveland Williams-Patterson

Dempsey-Wills - impossible to say without seeing Wills

Jack Johnson-Wills - see above

Walcott-Archie Moore - hmmmmm, Walcott by KO

[Hadrian]

nice thread. how about Louis-Frazier?

[Tanner]

You missed the biggest one of all: Byrd vs. Ruiz!!!!!

[Sweet Science]

Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight

Regardless of the length of Bowe's prime, I think he would have beaten Lewis.
Even though he acted like a coward and repeatedly ducked Lewis. Had a prime Bowe and Lewis crossed paths bowe would have had too much for Lewis.

I'm anticipating people saying Bowe was stopped by Lewis in the amatuers. However, the level Bowe was at when he turned up to fight Moses in 92 - He had the tools to beat most heavyweights including Lewis.

[Doppleganger]

I think Bowe was somewhat over rated. I'd agree with that. In reality, Bowe is rated on the strength of just one fight, the win over Holyfield in their first fight. I guess you could say the trilogy looking at it from a wider perspective but it's really that first fight that defined Bowe, and therefore his legacy.

BTW, why is ' Last edited by Heavyrighthand : 04-23-2006 at 09:54 PM.' appearing at the foot of this post?

[janitor]

[quote=PowerPuncher]Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight

Lewis-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike may have taken an aging Lewis but Lewis may have been too slick

Vitali-Ike Ibeauchi - I don't think Vitalis lean beack defense would work well against Ikes pressure

Wlad-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike KO, too much pressure and power


With you so far


Holmes-Foreman - Holmes UD and a much greater legacy


Wouldn't care to bet money on it either way. I think that if Foreman had Holmes hurt like Shavers did he would not let him off the hook.


Foreman-Tyson - Tyson beats both old and prime Foreman for me, far better faster boxer.


I certainly think Tyson would be too much for the older Foreman.

Frazier-Norton - Frazier by KO but not for certain


Frazier-Shavers - Probably Frazier KO but Shavers has the punchers chance


Shavers early KO. I don't think it would be as competitive as people think.

Lyle-Frazier - Probably Frazier UD

I like Frazier inside the distence.


Liston-Frazier - Liston KO, although Frazier may have taken the past prime version


Agreed

Cleveland Williams-Patterson

I would expect Patterson to take Williams with the right fight plan.

Dempsey-Wills - impossible to say without seeing Wills

It sounds like Dempsey had the right style to beat Wills.


Jack Johnson-Wills - see above


As Johnson declined there should theoreticaly be a crosover point where Wills takes it.


Walcott-Archie Moore - hmmmmm, Walcott by KO


Verry hard to say because you couldn't sparr for either of them.

[NickHudson]

Funny how often Lennox Lewis crops us. The man splits opinion like no other.

While I think you are right saying Bowe has only 1 genuine Legacy fight (i.e an uncontraversial win over ATG Holyfield who was prime), Lewis has zero Legacy fights...

He does not have a single win over a 'close to ATG' prime fighter.

I'd agree with that. In reality, Bowe is rated on the strength of just one fight, the win over Holyfield in their first fight. I guess you could say the trilogy looking at it from a wider perspective but it's really that first fight that defined Bowe, and therefore his legacy.

BTW, why is ' Last edited by Heavyrighthand : 04-23-2006 at 09:54 PM.' appearing at the foot of this post?

[OLD FOGEY]

Lewis-Bowe - I pick Lewis to butcher Bowe who was only in his prime for 1 fight

Lewis-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike may have taken an aging Lewis but Lewis may have been too slick

Vitali-Ike Ibeauchi - I don't think Vitalis lean beack defense would work well against Ikes pressure

Wlad-Ike Ibeauchi - Ike KO, too much pressure and power

Holmes-Foreman - Holmes UD and a much greater legacy

Foreman-Tyson - Tyson beats both old and prime Foreman for me, far better faster boxer.

Frazier-Norton - Frazier by KO but not for certain

Frazier-Shavers - Probably Frazier KO but Shavers has the punchers chance

Lyle-Frazier - Probably Frazier UD

Liston-Frazier - Liston KO, although Frazier may have taken the past prime version

Cleveland Williams-Patterson

Dempsey-Wills - impossible to say without seeing Wills

Jack Johnson-Wills - see above

Walcott-Archie Moore - hmmmmm, Walcott by KO

Well, I assume the way the question is asked, we are talking actual matchups as they would have historically occurred, so:

1. Liston-Frazier--this match would not have been made until 1969 or so. Liston was well past it and lost to Martin about that time. I don't see him beating Frazier.

2. Holmes-Foreman--I would see this as a pick em fight in the late seventies, with Foreman's power and ability to cut off the ring giving him a good chance of bashing Holmes down before his poor stamina betrays him.
In the nineties, I like Foreman.

3. Dempsey-Wills--I agree it is pretty difficult to pick without seeing more of Wills. Of what we know, Wills did defeat a fighter something like Dempsey in Langford, who was also a fighter at Dempsey's level. I can't see any of the big men Dempsey defeated as being close to Wills, who blew away Fulton, possibly the best of the big men at the time.
My guess would be Wills having the edge from 1919 to 1922 or so with Dempsey more likely to win as the years passed.

4. Johnson-Wills--Johnson was the better fighter, over all, I think, but this match would not have been made until probably 1915 or so. At that point or later, I would take Wills.

5. I think Patterson takes Williams at any point.

[Sonny Carson]

Funny how often Lennox Lewis crops us. The man splits opinion like no other.

While I think you are right saying Bowe has only 1 genuine Legacy fight (i.e an uncontraversial win over ATG Holyfield who was prime), Lewis has zero Legacy fights...

He does not have a single win over a 'close to ATG' prime fighter.
So true Lewis never beat a prime anybody and got knocked out by two decent heayweights. The 92 Bowe would kill the skinny Lewis.

[PowerPuncher]

Funny how often Lennox Lewis crops us. The man splits opinion like no other.

While I think you are right saying Bowe has only 1 genuine Legacy fight (i.e an uncontraversial win over ATG Holyfield who was prime), Lewis has zero Legacy fights...

He does not have a single win over a 'close to ATG' prime fighter.

Lennox has lots of legacy fights

Rudduck - top4 in the world destroyed
Holyfield - linear champ, past prime but beaten solidly twice
Briggs - linear sort of
Golota - the man who retired Bowe
Tua - the new Tyson? Handled
Tyson - still Tyson and still a threat
McCall/Rahman - revenge wins
Grant/Vitali - young pretenders and so called next HW champs.

Those were all massive fights with a plethora of styles and maybe some were more dangerous than a younger Holyfield. Older Holyfield had just destroyed Tyson and was stronger than ever too.

As for Lennox-Bowe - Lennox by KO5, Lennox big shots would get their first on the outside and Bowe wouldn't have the chin for them. Bowe never a faced a puncher of Lennoxs magnitude

[PowerPuncher]

btw. you lost the greatest match-up out of these should have happened.

Jim Jeffries - Jack Johnson in 1904 or 1905.

Thought of that but it did happen. Johnson UD

[TBooze]

So true Lewis never beat a prime anybody and got knocked out by two decent heayweights. The 92 Bowe would kill the skinny Lewis.

Much like 1988 eh...;)

[TBooze]

The one I would of liked to of seen is a 59 Liston/Marciano match up...

[Dempsey1238]

In 1959, Marciano would have been pushing 37 or so by the time. WAY pass his prime for the style the Rock used. It would have been VERY one sided, I belive Liston stops the Rock in 2 or 3 rounds. Marciano retire at the right time. He was close of loseing his powers, He already lost his hand speed as the Cockell and Moore fights show. I dont think Marciano could have goten to 59 unbeating.

[TBooze]

In 1959, Marciano would have been pushing 37 or so by the time. WAY pass his prime for the style the Rock used. It would have been VERY one sided, I belive Liston stops the Rock in 2 or 3 rounds. Marciano retire at the right time. He was close of loseing his powers, He already lost his hand speed as the Cockell and Moore fights show. I dont think Marciano could have goten to 59 unbeating.

I agree, but still would of liked to of seen it, Louis did the job for Marciano, perhaps Marciano should of done it for Liston.

[Sonny Carson]

Much like 1988 eh...;)
That was the Olympics, Bowe was green than. He hadn't filled out yet Lewis did. Lewis got his ass kicked by Tyrell Biggs in the Olympics. There's no way Lewis beats Bowe without Manny Stewerd. Look at the Frank Bruno fight and see that Bowe would have a good chance to beat Lewis.

[TBooze]

That was the Olympics, Bowe was green than. He hadn't filled out yet Lewis did. Lewis got his ass kicked by Tyrell Biggs in the Olympics. There's no way Lewis beats Bowe without Manny Stewerd. Look at the Frank Bruno fight and see that Bowe would have a good chance to beat Lewis.

You do not want to start me on the styles makes fights thus Bruno owns Bowe theory.;)

[Doppleganger]

You do not want to start me on the styles makes fights thus Bruno owns Bowe theory.;)
Exactly. Why would Bruno doing well against Lewis have anything to do with how well Bowe would do? Aside from the fact that Bowe and Bruno were both big, black and could thump a bit they really did not have much else in common.

[jhar26]

Funny how often Lennox Lewis crops us. The man splits opinion like no other.

While I think you are right saying Bowe has only 1 genuine Legacy fight (i.e an uncontraversial win over ATG Holyfield who was prime), Lewis has zero Legacy fights...

He does not have a single win over a 'close to ATG' prime fighter.
The fact that Bowe and Tyson avoided him tells us enough about what they thought could happen if they took him on. It's a bit like with Dempsey vs Wills. Dempsey (or Doc Kearns, same thing) didn't want to fight Wills, so it hurts Dempsey's legacy IMO, not Wills'. Not that the results of any of these fights would have been a foregone conclusion, but in cases of possible H2H's between more or less equal fighters it's only fair that the one who refused to fight should end up with the short end of the stick in ATG ratings IMO. After all, Lewis and Wills were willing to find out what would happen in the ring, Bowe and Dempsey didn't, which makes Lewis and Wills the moral winners of these imaginary match-ups for me.