Compound lifting

[Rakim]

Sorry people, I know this is forum is for boxing training, but I'd like a little advice and I'd prefer to get it from you guys.

I've recently started doing 5x5 Compound lifts, this is what I just did today......


Warmed up on the bike with a 30 second sprint/non-sprint for 8 minutes.

5x5 squats with 50kg
5x5 bench with 65kg
5x5 pulldowns with 45kg
5x5 rows with 60kg

I finished up with a 6 minute jog/sprint session on the treadmill. I'm currently about 5'10" and I weigh about 80kg.



At the moment I'm looking to build strength and build up a bit of CV fitness at the same time (I'm looking to go back to boxing in the next couple of months, so I'm trying to prepare my body a little). How could that routine be improved and what should I be eating/drinking before and after? On other days I do isolation stuff but I'm pretty happy with that, it's just these compound lifts I'm struggling to settle down with. Are deadlifts really worth doing? If I was to just do 1 rep on a heavy weight and include it in my 5 set cycle, would that benefit me a lot? Cheers in advance people, sorry for the amount of questions.

[jimmy c]

change the pulldowns to pullups/chins
change the rows to deadlifts exelent exercise
mix it up by doin sum explosive movements eg powercleans/snatches
eat a well balanced meal 1hour before trainin same within 1hour of finishing
increase resistance when able to
stick with it results guaranteed!

[Rakim]

change the pulldowns to pullups/chins - I intend to do this when I can do 5 of them!
change the rows to deadlifts exelent exercise - OK, I'll give this a go if others agree.
mix it up by doin sum explosive movements eg powercleans/snatches - I'll give these a go on alternative days.
eat a well balanced meal 1hour before trainin same within 1hour of finishing - I already do this, cheers.
increase resistance when able to - Again, I'm already doing this whenever I feel I can.
stick with it results guaranteed! - Hopefully!


Cheers for that mate, great help :good

[RDJ]

You will always be a puny freckled ginger, no amount of lifting will alter that ;)

[Rakim]

You will always be a puny freckled ginger, no amount of lifting will alter that ;)



6 months of this routine and I'll be a burly freckled ginger, no doubt I'll still be a complete cunt though.

[MrSmall]

As I told you on MSN, make the pulldowns pullups.
Add in deadlifts somewhere, don't dump the rows! Make a separate day of routine.
Watch yourself with the explosive movements, they're difficult to master. Make them a separate day as well.

[RDJ]

6 months of this routine and I'll be a burly freckled ginger, no doubt I'll still be a complete cunt though.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Rakim]

As I told you on MSN, make the pulldowns pullups.
Add in deadlifts somewhere, don't dump the rows! Make a separate day of routine.
Watch yourself with the explosive movements, they're difficult to master. Make them a separate day as well.



Cheers bud. Just to clarify to everyone, I'm after strength, not endurance, mass, or aesthetics, just strength.

[Rakim]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]



:rofl :rofl :rofl He's not as freckly as me.

[MrSmall]

Mass has nothing to do with the first two, neither do aeshetics.

You get the same strength from the workout, just depends how much more you eat, if you'll get mass or not.

[Arthur]

Adding deadlifts is a good idea but DON'T stop rowing!! Also make sure to consume whey protein after you lift with some carbs. Creatine will help as well. Looking at your numbers i'd say you need to work on getting your squat numbers up. After you've built up some strength do some explosive lifts like Power cleans and watch your strength go through the roof!! Good luck.

[Marvelous Marcum]

Agreed, you need to keep the rows.

Do yourself a favor and check out Bill Starr's 5x5 Routine. It's a hell of a strength routine, and helps if you're trying to gain a little muscle.

[younghypnotiq]

if ur a begginer DO NOT do that.

do this:
Monday:
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
3x as many as you can do chin ups even if its 1. once u can do 15 add weight so u can do 7 and then work back up to 15 with that weight.

Weds:
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
1x5 deadlift

fri
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
3x as many as you can do pull ups even if its 1. once u can do 15 add weight so u can do 7 and then work back up to 15 with that weight.

rotate bench and overhead press. do cardio on the days u lift. and box 6 days a week

[Lostmykeys]

change the pulldowns to pullups/chins - I intend to do this when I can do 5 of them!
change the rows to deadlifts exelent exercise - OK, I'll give this a go if others agree.
mix it up by doin sum explosive movements eg powercleans/snatches - I'll give these a go on alternative days.
eat a well balanced meal 1hour before trainin same within 1hour of finishing - I already do this, cheers.
increase resistance when able to - Again, I'm already doing this whenever I feel I can.
stick with it results guaranteed! - Hopefully!


Cheers for that mate, great help :good

If you can't do 5 pullups right away you can just do negative pullups.

[Rakim]

if ur a begginer DO NOT do that.

do this:
Monday:
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
3x as many as you can do chin ups even if its 1. once u can do 15 add weight so u can do 7 and then work back up to 15 with that weight.

Weds:
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
1x5 deadlift

fri
3x5 squat
3x5 bench or overhead press
3x as many as you can do pull ups even if its 1. once u can do 15 add weight so u can do 7 and then work back up to 15 with that weight.

rotate bench and overhead press. do cardio on the days u lift. and box 6 days a week



Why do you recommend doing 3 sets instead of 5? I know that will mean increasing the weight, but is that definitely better for strength gains?

[Rakim]

Cheers for the help everyone, I'm going to check out Bill Starr's 5x5 routine now :good

[younghypnotiq]

Why do you recommend doing 3 sets instead of 5? I know that will mean increasing the weight, but is that definitely better for strength gains?

because at the beggingin stages even bill starr and mark rippetoe both recomend only doing 3x5. once you finish this program you should move into the bill starrs 5x5

[Rakim]

because at the beggingin stages even bill starr and mark rippetoe both recomend only doing 3x5. once you finish this program you should move into the bill starrs 5x5



OK cheers. Why do you leave out rows?

[younghypnotiq]

because u r doing pullups. you would overtrain the back.

[Rakim]

because u r doing pullups. you would overtrain the back.



Pullups do the top part of your back, and rows do the bottom half, don't they? I suppose squats and deadlift also do the bottom part as well though.

[younghypnotiq]

this is wat bill said about 5x5New or Beginner Lifters:
This is not a beginner program. You will make faster progress with less workload on a true beginner program. I really recommend Rippetoe's Starting Strength for beginners or novices. It's so critical to learn the lifts correctly and get started on a good program (i.e. not what one typically finds on bodybuilding sites). Rippetoe is the man at coaching beginners and putting muscle on them with 30-40lbs in 4-6 months being quite normal. The book will handle teaching you all the lifts. It's written for coaches and no, given what I see in commercial gyms, the internet and Joe Schmoe at your local gym are not capable of instructing you properly - they will screw you up and make you look like a moron or possibly get you hurt. On top of that the book covers everything to get you set up on a program that is time proven as one of if not the best beginner programs available.

[younghypnotiq]

also that is bull shit theres no such thing as top and bottom back or w.e
it gets worked.

[younghypnotiq]

only differne is that one is a horizontal pulling motion and one is a vertical

[Rakim]

also that is bull shit theres no such thing as top and bottom back or w.e
it gets worked.


:huh Of course there's a difference, there's different muscles in each part of your back. [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[younghypnotiq]

hyes i no there is a difference. BUT both get worked i meant the lift doesnt makea difference.

[HopkinsFan]

rakim your original post's workout was more taylored to bulking up a lot, due to the low reps and high set count (you prob know this). which i don't think you'd want to bulk much if your planning to start serious boxing in a few months like you said. But then again, if this is what you do want, I would add dead lifts and put the rep count up to around 8 or 9 and lower the weight just a tad, maybe 2.5. Yes dead lifts are worth doing and doing right, if you got a weight belt that'd be great for your back but you'll probablly have good form :)
My two cents anyway, hope this helps :)
harley

[younghypnotiq]

now ur a fucking mroon. 8-9 is a bulkiing routine 8-12 - hypertrophy. low reps dont make u gain weight. aslo only way to gain weight is by eating.

[Sagefrancis]

now ur a fucking mroon. 8-9 is a bulkiing routine 8-12 - hypertrophy. low reps dont make u gain weight. aslo only way to gain weight is by eating.

im glad someone on this forum understands that.
the routines posted so far are all good. i would keep both the rows and the lat pulldown/pullups.
the deadlift is essential. make sure your well instructed on how to perform them though.
good luck with all your training.

[HopkinsFan]

i said the low reps would bulk him up not make him gain weight you fucking idiot,
bulking up slows you a bit aswell. also, i only said to increase the reps a few because he seemed content on bulking up and i'm not here to change his mind. read the whole post before you go calling names you stupid prick

[Sagefrancis]

i said the low reps would bulk him up not make him gain weight you fucking idiot,
bulking up slows you a bit aswell. also, i only said to increase the reps a few because he seemed content on bulking up and i'm not here to change his mind. read the whole post before you go calling names you stupid prick

lol i didnt realise you could "bulk up" without gaining weight.
please explain that to me.

[Rakim]

now ur a fucking mroon. 8-9 is a bulkiing routine 8-12 - hypertrophy. low reps dont make u gain weight. aslo only way to gain weight is by eating.

im glad someone on this forum understands that.
the routines posted so far are all good. i would keep both the rows and the lat pulldown/pullups.
the deadlift is essential. make sure your well instructed on how to perform them though.
good luck with all your training.



Cheers mate. I'm glad to see that I've basically been doing a half-decent program, apart from not doing any deadlift. I'm going to add that to my routine and stick with my 5x5 because it took me a couple of sessions to find the right amount of weight for each exercise with 5 reps. My new routine...........


5x5 squats
5x5 bench
5x5 pulldowns/pullups
5x5 rows
5x1 deadlift

I'll do a little CV work either side of this, both to warm me up/down and to keep improving my fitness. Is it still a good idea to do isolation exercises once a week or something, or should I stick to doing this programme all the time for a few months and just keep on adding weights to my lifts?

[Sagefrancis]

Is it still a good idea to do isolation exercises once a week or something, or should I stick to doing this programme all the time for a few months and just keep on adding weights to my lifts?

I still do alot of isolated exercises. They're great for a change.
What i did when I first started lifting was to just do isolated exercises (besides bench) and when i started doing compound ones (chinups, squats, rows etc) i could do a fair bit of weight.
youve made the right choice in doing compound exercises. However you may find in a few months that your starting to reach a plateau in some of your exercises. This is where i believe isolated exercises are useful.
By strengthening muscles individually that you use in a lift you can make the whole lift stronger when you get back to it.
eg. Lets say your doing bench press. youve reached a weight which you cant pass. every 2nd workout you do for your triceps, pecs and deltoids try tricep pulldown, dumbell press (with arms almost paralell for chest most and to the side for anterior deltoid) and dumbell shoulder press.
this should help you to get over your plateau.


also i love my biceps so i still do bicep curls.
hopr that helps

[Rakim]

I still do alot of isolated exercises. They're great for a change.
What i did when I first started lifting was to just do isolated exercises (besides bench) and when i started doing compound ones (chinups, squats, rows etc) i could do a fair bit of weight.
youve made the right choice in doing compound exercises. However you may find in a few months that your starting to reach a plateau in some of your exercises. This is where i believe isolated exercises are useful.
By strengthening muscles individually that you use in a lift you can make the whole lift stronger when you get back to it.
eg. Lets say your doing bench press. youve reached a weight which you cant pass. every 2nd workout you do for your triceps, pecs and deltoids try tricep pulldown, dumbell press (with arms almost paralell for chest most and to the side for anterior deltoid) and dumbell shoulder press.
this should help you to get over your plateau.


also i love my biceps so i still do bicep curls.
hopr that helps



Yeah that's great, cheers mate. If I were to do any isolation stuff, I'd include weighted calf raises, crunches, bicep curls, tricep pulldowns, and some kind of shoulder exercise. I think the compound lifts would compliment that nicely, as they work my back, thighs and hamstrings pretty hard. Cheers again for the help mate.

[jimmy c]

if u carnt do 5 chins/pullups at once do 5singles rest pause
they are far superior to rows especially as u say u wont strength perhaps alternate 1week rows
1week chins/pullups

[jimmy c]

do not use a weight belt for any of your training your lower
back muscles must strenghten along with everything else

[Marvelous Marcum]

I would love it if someone could explain to me why pull ups (which work your LATS) are better than rows (which works an entirely different muscle, your Rhomboids. Which also happens to be your MIDDLE back.) I mean I know they do work different muscles and all, but if you could just point out to me what exactly makes them a superior exercise. I thought I knew a little something about working out but experts have proven me totally wrong.

P.s. Yes I do realize in rows your lats are worked, and so are your biceps. However they are secondary muscles if you're doing them with any kind of proper form.

[younghypnotiq]

because hes not a body builder. he only needs a pulling motion doesnt matter what muscles it works.

[average_joe]

You could even do fewer reps I think for best strength gains. Try 3-4 reps.

Also, don't leave out rest between sets. For strength gains, make sure you get about 3 mins of rest (If you don't have time for this, bring it down to 2). This allows you to recover more, meaning you can move more total weight.

[Rakim]

You could even do fewer reps I think for best strength gains. Try 3-4 reps.

Also, don't leave out rest between sets. For strength gains, make sure you get about 3 mins of rest (If you don't have time for this, bring it down to 2). This allows you to recover more, meaning you can move more total weight.



I do my lifts in a cycle, I do 5 reps of squats, then 5 bench, then 5 pulldowns, then 5 rows, then start over again until I've done 5 sets of each. So I do rest in a way.

[jimmy c]

pullups/chins work the entire back
e.g gymnasts exeptionaly strong exceptional back development tons of pullup/chin movements

[Marvelous Marcum]

pullups/chins work the entire back
e.g gymnasts exeptionaly strong exceptional back development tons of pullup/chin movements

My dear friend... they have exceptionally strong lats and trapz. But just a question for you, when is the last time you've felt your lower spinal erectors being worked during a pullup/chin movement? Chances are you have yet to feel that, because it just doesn't happen.

Now, back to the point at hand. He should be doing both, neither will work the entire back. And don't forget the lower portion of the spinal erectors IS part of your core; so if you develop them it will help punching power.

Now to the final point: to say that one exercise is superior to the other is simply idiotic.

[Nwil]

rakim, your routine is decent, but add in some explosive lifts like cleans, snatches and swings.

on the whole pull-up/row thing, pull ups do work your whole back, or lats (not lower back>>deadlifts). Pull ups are better than rows because of the vertical motion, not to mention your working both halves of your back with your body rather than one at a time with dummbbell. bent over rows work the whole back, but again, the vertical pulling motion is why pull ups are so effective.

sagefrancis, you do isolation exercises? I get your point about increasing each muscles strength for the compoung, but does it actually work? either way, I wouldn't want to teach my muscles to work by themselves.

also i love my biceps so i still do bicep curls.
:rofl :patsch

[Shev]

Nobody in the gym is more vain than Mr Bicep.

[Sagefrancis]

sagefrancis, you do isolation exercises? I get your point about increasing each muscles strength for the compoung, but does it actually work? either way, I wouldn't want to teach my muscles to work by themselves.

if youve got the muscle memory to perform a compound movement then regardless of wether youve been gaining strength in each muscle through compound or isolated movements your still going to be able to lift.
as i think i said (i cant remember) i use isolated to get past plateaus. and for me this has worked on a few occasions. but i do see where your coming from.
it can be a good idea to use isolated exercises in addition as well if you wish to step up your training a bit.

[Marvelous Marcum]

on the whole pull-up/row thing, pull ups do work your whole back, or lats (not lower back>>deadlifts). Pull ups are better than rows because of the vertical motion, not to mention your working both halves of your back with your body rather than one at a time with dummbbell. bent over rows work the whole back, but again, the vertical pulling motion is why pull ups are so effective.


They're better because of the vertical motion? :roll:

Bent over rows done with a barbell will work both sides of the back, at the same time my friend. Sorry I didn't specify.

[Rakim]

sagefrancis, you do isolation exercises? I get your point about increasing each muscles strength for the compoung, but does it actually work? either way, I wouldn't want to teach my muscles to work by themselves.





Surely you can't workout your entire body through compound lifts alone?! I already think that my calves, abs, shoulders, traps (I think these are the muscles between your shoulder and you neck??) are being left out compared to other areas like my back and thighs.

[Marvelous Marcum]

Surely you can't workout your entire body through compound lifts alone?! I already think that my calves, abs, shoulders, traps (I think these are the muscles between your shoulder and you neck??) are being left out compared to other areas like my back and thighs.

All of them are well worked if you're doing Clean & Jerks. (Not sure if it's in your routine though, sorry.)

[Nwil]

They're better because of the vertical motion? :roll:

Bent over rows done with a barbell will work both sides of the back, at the same time my friend. Sorry I didn't specify.

yeah, the vertical pulling motion uses more strength than being on a bench or bent over.

yeah, I know bent over rows work both halves. The other rows, where you're kneeling on a bench, don't.

either way, I usually do pull/chin - ups and lat pulldowns mainly.

[Marvelous Marcum]

yeah, the vertical pulling motion uses more strength than being on a bench or bent over.

If by more strength you mean working different muscles. Then yes.


either way, I usually do pull/chin - ups and lat pulldowns mainly.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

And if these do work so well... please feel free to post up a picture of how incredibly wide your lats are.

[Nwil]

lol, I wasn't aware this was a competition now. My reasoning behind those two exercises was the motion involved, which has proven to be the most beneficial for me. It's not like I do nothing else.

[Marvelous Marcum]

lol, I wasn't aware this was a competition now. My reasoning behind those two exercises was the motion involved, which has proven to be the most beneficial for me. It's not like I do nothing else.
Lmao not a competition my friend. And good, do you bodybuild?

[Nwil]

hell no, I don't bodybuild. I actually only did bodyweight for about 3 months before. I lift a couple times a week now along with plyos. The lifting has just helped with power but I have to make sure not to add on too much mass.

[Marvelous Marcum]

hell no, I don't bodybuild. I actually only did bodyweight for about 3 months before. I lift a couple times a week now along with plyos. The lifting has just helped with power but I have to make sure not to add on too much mass.

Plyos are a beautiful thing. At least you're not an idiot who thinks working out will instantly get you huge.