Ali vs Marciano II

[Boilermaker]

Who wins a rematch of these two all time greats. Marciano won the first match when he trapped Muhammed Ali on the ropes with a devastating combination and knocked him out.

While it is clear that we had seen the best of Ali by the time of the first fight, he did go into the fight, Known to be blindingly fast but with a question mark over his chin and heart and an ability to get caught as Cooper and banks had done.

In his second career, Ali proved that he was as tough if not tougher than any other fighter to ever lace the gloves. He also proved recuperative powers that were first rate and he demonstrated that he could fight on in the championship rounds.

In the first fight, Ali started strong but Rocky caught up to him. How do they do in the rematch. Same computer but updated data.

[MrSmall]

Marciano would never KO Ali.

[McGrain]

It would've never happened like that in the first place.


He's talking about the computer fight they had when Ali was out.

What would the same computer make of the thing with new date in place as regards the "second career" Ali described.

[fists of fury]

I never did watch the original 'fight' because I always felt that Ali was set up to lose, no matter what. It was somewhat farcical.

I do think though that no matter what version of Ali showed up, that Marciano had the kind of style that would give him serious problems. Basically, Marciano had the same sort of traits that Frazier did - powerful, relentless, immense heart and stamina, a swarming type of style, great chin, very rugged etc.

Ali was inhumanly tough, but I don't think Marciano neccesarily has to KO him to win. His punch output was freakish and he could outhustle 70's Ali to a decision. Of course cuts would always be a concern against a sharpshooter like Ali, but if anything cuts only spurred Marciano on further.

It could really go either way, but (partly to play devil's advocate) I'll pick Marciano.

[McGrain]

I never did watch the original 'fight' because I always felt that Ali was set up to lose, no matter what. It was somewhat farcical.



I agree.

There was no way in hell Ali was ever going to win that computer fight.

[TBooze]

They had a second fight on the computer, that came to Britain and Europe, Ali won the decision.

[Bad_Intentions]

interesting....

[McGrain]

I know what he was talking about, I'm saying no way Marciano beats the first version of Ali either.


But it did on the computer.

I agree with you though.

[Lex]

Why does anyone continue to give any credence to that silly computerized "fight?"

The whole thing hinged on a financial arrangement to help offset Ali's legal expenses after being stripped of his license. And Marciano always had good money sense so he wouldn't have turned it down even if the computer claimed he "lost."

There's no way Marciano beats Ali. Ali would have shredded Marciano's face to ribbons and forced a TKO to save Rocky from permanent eye damage. (Recall that toward the end of his career, Jose Napoles began to cut so badly his eyelid was literally hanging loose in his final bouts against Muniz and Stracey. Ali would inflict the same damage against Marciano.)

No heavyweight in history had more stamina than a prime Ali. If Rocky could go 15 at a pace to the point of exhaustion, Ali would have been able to go 16. No matter the amount of pressure, temperature, humidity, whatever, he always had a little more in the tank than his opponents. And when he needed a rest he controlled the pace. There's little Marciano could have done to force Ali to fight Rocky's game.

The only shot Marciano would have is to KO Ali with a left hook. That was always Ali's vulnerability because of the way he set himself for right hands over the opponent's left shoulder. But Marciano's best punch to the head was a right hand, and Ali wasn't nearly as easy to hit with the right.

Hey, I'm a big Marciano fan. But this is a bad, bad matchup for him. Roland LaStarza was, arguably, the slickest boxer who was in his prime when he faced a prime Marciano (okay, Rocky was always in his prime 'cause he retired before going downhill). LaStarza give Marciano hell in their first fight and did pretty darned well later against a by-then much improved Rocky. But however tough he was for his era, a 5'10", 185 lb. Marciano is not gonna give Ali much trouble.

I would just hope that Ali's mean streak, so prominent during the 1960s against Patterson, Moore, Liston and others wouldn't arise. He could be kinda vicious about tormenting opponents during fights, beating them up without finishing them off. Not one of his more appealing characteristics.

[Bummy Davis]

You really never hear anyone call Marciano fast but he did beat many fighters to the punch, once hurt he could flurry to get inside or he could pick his awkward variation of punches,Chopping rights,triple hooks and uppercuts. Marciano was a rythym breaker and this would trouble Ali, I see this fight being a carbon copy of Ali/Frazier 1, when Frazier was at his fittest and prime with the exception that when Marciano had you hurt his 2 fisted attack rarely let you off the hook, I dont know if Ali would have made it out of the 11th round,but if anyone could do it it would be Ali. Remember the fighters who gave Ali the most trouble were fighters with speed, or power of the hook,Marciano had a great double hook(see Harry Matthews fight)Archie Moore) I see this fight getting really interesting from the 9th round on,with Marcianos body shots starting to take there toll and Marciano's fittness coming into play,Ali hitting the canvas but Marciano on his body head,neck and arms,Marciano swollen from flurries but punching every step of the way for a UD or a Late tko stop

[groove]

Peak Ali is a fighter Marciano never came close to fighting. light heavies Moore was old and a declining Charles was his best opponent. Those 2 would be knocked out easy by a peak Ali. They wouldn't do any better than what Bob Foster did against a not as good Ali. Old Louis and Walcott would have no chance against peak Ali. Marciano never fought a great peak fighter - Marciano was the only one that was peak when he fought those great fighters. Ali fought a lot of peak great fighters - Frazier, Foreman, Norton etc. I think peak Foreman would destroy him and i give Frazier the advantage in a match-up.

They changed the computer result to Ali to win in the UK cuz most fans couldn't accept Ali losing Marciano. UK fans knew Ali was in a different class to Marciano. Ali was always very popular in the UK even throughout the 60s - not the same story in the US.

[Shake]

The idea is flawed to begin with. No-one who can write the code for the computer to compute has enough boxing sense to even approximate reality, while no-one with a high degree of boxing knowledge could write the damn code.

Even if you could fuse Cus D'amato and Stephen Hawking together though, I still don't believe it would ever be credible.

[TBooze]

The idea is flawed to begin with. No-one who can write the code for the computer to compute has enough boxing sense to even approximate reality, while no-one with a high degree of boxing knowledge could write the damn code.

Even if you could fuse Cus D'amato and Stephen Hawking together though, I still don't believe it would ever be credible.

It was a bit of fun that made The Rock and Louisville lip a bit of money;)

[Shake]

Oh, I understand that. Just strange that some people take it seriously. Can't see how that would work.

[Bummy Davis]

Peak Ali is a fighter Marciano never came close to fighting. light heavies Moore was old and a declining Charles was his best opponent. Those 2 would be knocked out easy by a peak Ali. They wouldn't do any better than what Bob Foster did against a not as good Ali. Old Louis and Walcott would have no chance against peak Ali. Marciano never fought a great peak fighter - Marciano was the only one that was peak when he fought those great fighters. Ali fought a lot of peak great fighters - Frazier, Foreman, Norton etc. I think peak Foreman would destroy him and i give Frazier the advantage in a match-up.

They changed the computer result to Ali to win in the UK cuz most fans couldn't accept Ali losing Marciano. UK fans knew Ali was in a different class to Marciano. Ali was always very popular in the UK even throughout the 60s - not the same story in the US.

When Frazier was peak he beat Ali,Norton also, Walcott, Charles,Moore would have given Ali at least the same trouble or more than, Cooper,Jones,Mildenburger,Norton,Young, because they were all better fighters

[ripcity]

When was Ali Marciano I? I would like to think that I have a resasonable understand of boxing history and a bout between Ali and Marciano seems like one of the fights that even the casual boxing fan would know about.:lol:

[Russell]

When was Ali Marciano I? I would like to think that I have a resasonable understand of boxing history and a bout between Ali and Marciano seems like one of the fights that even the casual boxing fan would know about.:lol:
Sadly your boxing knowledge doesn't seem to compare to your ability to read the thread you're posting in.

[ripcity]

Sadly your boxing knowledge doesn't seem to compare to your ability to read the thread you're posting in.
I was being (or at least trying to be) sartstic.

[janitor]

When was Ali Marciano I? I would like to think that I have a resasonable understand of boxing history and a bout between Ali and Marciano seems like one of the fights that even the casual boxing fan would know about.:lol:

They had a bit of a sparring sesion and Marciano dropped the greatest. Ali developed quite a bit of afection for the old man after that.

[fists of fury]

Let's look at this another way.

Ali was technically superior to Frazier on just about every level. He was taller, had a longer reach, had much faster hands, faster feet, better reflexes, a more economical style, arguably tougher...on nearly every level Ali trumped Joe.
So why didn't he box circles around Frazier? Why didn't he make him look like a rank amateur?
Why were their fights invariably life and death struggles? Because in most fights, it invariably comes down to will rather than skill that wins the day.
The Ali - Frazier fights came down to will. They were a test of attrition.

Sure, in a fight where one guy is head and shoulders above another in terms of skill, skill alone may win out, but in a case where athletes are in the same ballpark in terms of ability it's will, heart, commitment or whatever you want to call it that ultimately decides the outcome.

I think a fight between Ali and Maciano comes down to will, and it would be a battle of attrition.

[silverking]

They had a second fight on the computer, that came to Britain and Europe, Ali won the decision.

No I think you will find that the version first shown in the UK had Rocky winning.