puglistic dementia....

[shommel]

does ali have it or is it parkinson disease? also what is the percentage of fighters getting this dementia?quarry wound up a mess. frazier is ok(he took some massive blows in fights) foreman is ok hell even the greatest chin of all time lamotta is ok . how do these guys avoid this after taking so many punches you would figure lamotta would be incoherant after the beatings he took.

[McGrain]

Ali has Parkinson's Syndrome, I do believe, which is not the same as Parkinson's Disease.

[MIK1000]

they might not have dimentia but u can't make out a word lamotta or frazier are saying.

[Quickhands21]

Lamotta is still pretty sharp..He's just up there in age and a grumpy prick

[AnthonyJ74]

Ali has Parkinson's syndrome, and from what I understand, his personal physician's feel that it was caused by repeated blows to the head. Ali, from what I understand, also has damage to his brain stem, the area of the brain with the Dopamine-producing cells.

[AnthonyJ74]

And JOe Frazier has got to be a little punch drunk....The guy is hardly articulate and he stammers and stumbles over his words and sentences....He sounds bad!

[Arriba]

And JOe Frazier has got to be a little punch drunk....The guy is hardly articulate and he stammers and stumbles over his words and sentences....He sounds bad!

Yeah he's got something although it may just be old age coupled with all the big hits he took from Foreman and Ali.

Bobby Chacon and Meldrick Taylor are awful...just brutal to listen to.

[ChrisPontius]

I think Ali started looking a bit Parkinson-induced in the late 70's. Pretty sad sight considering he was still shipping punches from the likes of Shavers.

[stonerose]

I didn't think there was ever any proof Ali's condition was boxing related but that it was just kind of accepted that it is the cause . Didn't know about the brain stem thing either .
Wonder if he'd swap all his past glories for a healthy mind now ?

[punchy]

they might not have dimentia but u can't make out a word lamotta or frazier are saying.

Just had a look at Lamotta interview, he's 86 no way does he have dementia, he is still sharp as a tack.

[dav8d777]

does ali have it or is it parkinson disease? also what is the percentage of fighters getting this dementia?quarry wound up a mess. frazier is ok(he took some massive blows in fights) foreman is ok hell even the greatest chin of all time lamotta is ok . how do these guys avoid this after taking so many punches you would figure lamotta would be incoherant after the beatings he took.

Yeh, no matter how La Motta sounds now he pretty much dodged the dementia bullet all his life. That was about all he dodged too. La Motta is the very model of what is supposed to make you punchy. He could take a punch, he blocked punches with his face, fought great competition include Ray Robinson 6 times...

On the other hand Tommy Hearns who did not do most of those things and now has a terrible speech impediment. Maybe genetics play a part since three Quarry brothers contracted and died from boxing-related dementia.

[dav8d777]

Ali has Parkinson's Syndrome, I do believe, which is not the same as Parkinson's Disease.

Correct.

[dav8d777]

I just checked out Joe Frazier. His intelligence and vocabulary seem the same as what I remember from years ago, but he has slurred speech now without a doubt. I'm surprised the guy can talk at all as hard and often as he was hit.

[Robbi]

I think Ali started looking a bit Parkinson-induced in the late 70's. Pretty sad sight considering he was still shipping punches from the likes of Shavers.

He had it for the Spinks rematch IMO. Not unless he really is tired, which he denies in this clip when being interviewed by Cosell.

9bsoVV0s_mw

[ChrisPontius]

Yeh, no matter how La Motta sounds now he pretty much dodged the dementia bullet all his life. That was about all he dodged too. La Motta is the very model of what is supposed to make you punchy. He could take a punch, he blocked punches with his face, fought great competition include Ray Robinson 6 times...

On the other hand Tommy Hearns who did not do most of those things and now has a terrible speech impediment. Maybe genetics play a part since three Quarry brothers contracted and died from boxing-related dementia.

It is remarkable how it differs. Foreman is fresh as a daisy and a fine commentator. While his first career was rather mild on him, punishment-wise, his second career certainly wasn't.


I think a lot of the damage comes from sparring as well though. That's where guys like Meldrik Taylor got most of theirs, going to war every day. And i bet Hearns has been involved in the regular Kronk gym wars as well.

[Russell]

It is remarkable how it differs. Foreman is fresh as a daisy and a fine commentator. While his first career was rather mild on him, punishment-wise, his second career certainly wasn't.


I think a lot of the damage comes from sparring as well though. That's where guys like Meldrik Taylor got most of theirs, going to war every day. And i bet Hearns has been involved in the regular Kronk gym wars as well.

Yeah, you can't really come out of Hilly without being a warrior in the gym. It's almost expected of you.

That really carried over into the ring with Taylor as well. He'd just degenerate into wars with people, from Chavez to Norris.

[Duodenum]

Although Ali's speech is nearly indecipherable now (except when he's roused to yell things like, "I'm the greatest!"), he's never exhibited any indications of dementia. His mind seems to be perfectly intact. He's more like somebody with cerebral palsy, or a stroke victim. It's his motor coordination and speech which is compromised.

Conversely, Jerry Quarry's speech center was unaffected, but his mind deserted him.

[djm]

One of the truly remarkable cases is Chuvalo. He took beatings like nobody's business and does engaging, humourous interviews about the old days to this day. Makes his living as a public speaker (mostly at high schools with an anti-drug message... I'm sure that story is pretty well known).

He's in remarkable shape, all things considered.

[rusty nails]

in 15 years holyfield will wont be able to spit out a straight sentence.. hes got a mean slur happening already.
tyson has developed one as well but its only slight.. he sounds like ali when ali retired.

[Adaptation]

Theres really no official factor to it. Lamotta was sharp as hell and he got battered like a mad man. Mind over body kinda stuff from my point of view.

[ChrisPontius]

in 15 years holyfield will wont be able to spit out a straight sentence.. hes got a mean slur happening already.
tyson has developed one as well but its only slight.. he sounds like ali when ali retired.


Tyson? Last time i heard him speak (interview in 2007) he sounded perfectly clear. He's never been a really fluent speaker due to his shyness, but i don't think he's showing any signs.

At any rate, with his lifestyle, drugs, obesity and alcohol are way high health concerns.

[Mendoza]

Ali took too many blows to the head, and really should have retired after the Shavers match. Shavers damaged Ali. Ali had no memory of the fight after the final bell.

[Duodenum]

Ali took too many blows to the head, and really should have retired after the Shavers match. Shavers damaged Ali. Ali had no memory of the fight after the final bell.You put you finger on an event which receives far less careful scrutiny than it should in Muhammad's career.

Most of the heavy punishment he took from Foreman was to the body. He gave as well as he got with Frazier. But he was buckled repeatedly with flashing right hands from Earnie, buckled in a way Frazier was able to stagger him only in round 11 of the FOTC. Ali saw more stars and lost more brain cells in that fight than in all his other bouts combined.

[ChrisPontius]

"He gave as well as he got with Frazier" in this case means that he received a horrible beating.

[Stonehands89]

You put you finger on an event which receives far less careful scrutiny than it should in Muhammad's career.

Most of the heavy punishment he took from Foreman was to the body. He gave as well as he got with Frazier. But he was buckled repeatedly with flashing right hands from Earnie, buckled in a way Frazier was able to stagger him only in round 11 of the FOTC. Ali saw more stars and lost more brain cells in that fight than in all his other bouts combined.
Duodenum --I just mentioned you in a recent post. Good to see you. Had I been Ali's conscience in 1975, I would have demanded that he hang them up after the Thrilla in Manila. Everything after that was incidental. I have a tough time watching every fight after that one in fact and usually just won't.

As per pugilistica dementia: In about 20 years science may isolate the gene that makes some boxers prone to it and others not prone to it. That will be a Godsend because we will be able to make better decisions as to whether we should and who should box in the first place. The number of fights or amount of punishment over a career is less important than the presence of that gene in my opinion. Who had it? Ali was diagnosed with Parkinson's syndrome when he was about 12 although it is clear that the punishment he took in the 70s accelerated it. Bowe has it. Quarry has it. Hearns has a speech impediment and nasal problems but he's probably got it too by now. Meldrick has it. Who doesn't? Many. Including those mentioned. I'd add Duran. Duran sure as hell doesn't. He speaks a mile a minute even now.

[ChrisPontius]

Ali was diagnosed with Parkinson's syndrome when he was about 12 although it is clear that the punishment he took in the 70s accelerated it.


Are you sure about this? Very interesting, if true.

[Stonehands89]

Are you sure about this? Very interesting, if true.Not 100%... I should have prefaced it with "if I remember right". I think it may be in Hauser's biography if you have it handy.

[Duodenum]

"He gave as well as he got with Frazier" in this case means that he received a horrible beating.Indeed he did Chris, but as with Foreman, most of this was to his body. Even in his final outing with Berbick, Trevor did not reach his head much, mainly flailing away at Muhammad's body. Nobody nailed him to the head with big shots repeatedly quite like Shavers buckled him with.

[Arka]

Are you sure about this? Very interesting, if true.

Sounds like bullshit to me.:D

Tyson came away from the Lewis fight with a definite slur.I remember his voice being extraordinarily clear for a prizefighter,before that fight.

Max Kellerman says he noticed a subtle change in George Foreman's voice after Alex Stewart tenderised his face.

[Boxing Fanatic]

Holy was interviewed after the valuev fight, and I didn't notice a slur in his speech as definite as he had in the past.

[GPater11093]

maybe valuev not throwing punches took away the effects on evander

i wouldnt be surprised if hatton ends up with it as he is hit alot