Pictures of Gerald Mclellan...

[Bad_Intentions]

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it's really sad seeing one of the greatest boxers of the 90's in those conditions. the beating nigel benn gave gerald was a painful one, permanent brain damage, no hearing, and blind.

these pictures are from 2003 with his sister who has been taking care of the g-man since the day he lost conscious in the 1995 fight against benn.

[Dantes]

very sad man...very sad.

[brooklyn1550]

Tragic

[Butch Coolidge]

Is it true he used to hold dog fights and torture losing dogs to death?

[Napoleon]

Is it true he used to hold dog fights and torture losing dogs to death?

Isn't that Michael Vick?

[Napoleon]

Delete

[Carlos Primera]

truly a tragic story. i felt g man had a good chance to win against RJJ during the mid 90's. too bad that that fight never took place.

[Bad_Intentions]

truly a tragic story. i felt g man had a good chance to win against RJJ during the mid 90's. too bad that that fight never took place.:blood:huh

[Axe]

:blood:huh

Gerald was one of the few who stood a chance below 175 lbs.

[Sai]

He used to chuck animals he bought at pet shops and from rescue homes in with his fighting dogs every day so they could kill them. The guy was a total cunt, but that doesnt mean to say that he deserved to suffer brain damage.

[enzo]

He used to chuck animals he bought at pet shops and from rescue homes in with his fighting dogs every day so they could kill them. The guy was a total cunt, but that doesnt mean to say that he deserved to suffer brain damage.

:think

[hobgoblin]

Fuck him and fuck everyone talking about how sad this is. He got what he deserved.

Vick has nothing on this guy

man speaks the truth

mcclellan got what he deserved - fuck him. let's see him beat up his girlfriends now...

[David UK]

He used to chuck animals he bought at pet shops and from rescue homes in with his fighting dogs every day so they could kill them. The guy was a total cunt, but that doesnt mean to say that he deserved to suffer brain damage.

Maybe not, but what goes around comes around

[BobDigi5060]

Where is this animal abuse stuff coming from? Any source?

Did he slip into a coma right after the Benn fight or what? Was he in a vegatative state at first?

[Maxmomer]

The same people who run around promoting animal rights, promote abortion.

What's wrong with abortion?

[Lampley]

This thread is probably headed for the lounge, but I think as much as what G-Man did was deplorable, his injury prevented him from having the chance to change as he matured. Maybe he wouldn't have, but if nothing else, you should be sad about the situation for his sister's sake.

I have that fight on my computer and watch it occasionally. It's the very best and the very worst of what happens in boxing.

I'll go to my grave believing McClellan was too good for Benn, and despite a brain condition that he probably carried into the fight, he still almost KO'd Benn late. Not questioning Benn's heart at all, but I do think he was overmatched against a healthy G-Man.

[Mistadobalina]

A3H9WncSd68

a beast in his hey day.

[CASH_718]

I don't believe one word about that dog fighting shit.

There's no pictures, video, statement from anyone who saw it, police reports.... NOTHING.

Who said he did that shit??? and Where's there proof???

[bigG]

best fight iv ever seen....ultimately tragic.....and i think benn just had too much for the g-man....too much game, too much heart, too much will to win.....gerald couldnt keep him down......benn prophetically, and shockingly accurately said before the fight, sure he's gonna knock me down, but i'l get up....when i knock him down, he aint gettin up.....iv had more knock outs than he's had fights, and i'm supposed to be scared of him???......sad, sad outcome, but, sadly, thats what can happen in this savagely brutal dance that we love....

[Fallow]

This thread is probably headed for the lounge, but I think as much as what G-Man did was deplorable, his injury prevented him from having the chance to change as he matured. Maybe he wouldn't have, but if nothing else, you should be sad about the situation for his sister's sake.

I have that fight on my computer and watch it occasionally. It's the very best and the very worst of what happens in boxing.

I'll go to my grave believing McClellan was too good for Benn, and despite a brain condition that he probably carried into the fight, he still almost KO'd Benn late. Not questioning Benn's heart at all, but I do think he was overmatched against a healthy G-Man.

He did not bring any brain condition into the fight. :lol:

Benn had always been a reasonably heavy handed fighter and hit McClellan with a lot of punches that night. G-Man was the one who was overmatched, the guy had only fought deep on a few occasions going into a fight against a man who was the very personification of all things TOUGH.

[Sai]

I don't believe one word about that dog fighting shit.

There's no pictures, video, statement from anyone who saw it, police reports.... NOTHING.

Who said he did that shit??? and Where's there proof???

His own coach. It was reported extensively in the British press. It absolutely happened.

[Sai]

Heres a link. For the record the paper is probably about the most credible of any UK newspaper. [Only registered and activated users can see links]_continue

[robert ungurean]

Heres a link. For the record the paper is probably about the most credible of any UK newspaper. [Only registered and activated users can see links]_continueAfter reading that article its hard to feel sorry for McClellen.

[ThePlugInBabies]

great fighter, but him and his team ultimately made their biggest mistake by underestimating benn and thinking that the g man would just walk through him, like nigel said after the bout 'they just bought him over here to bash me up'. benn's spirit and power that night were off the chart.

[Fat Tony]

Today, British refs tend to stop fights earlier than refs of other nationalities. Do you think it has anything to do with Mclellan's fate?

[PowerPuncher]

McClellan was giving him an asswhooping the whole fight and if not for McClellan's condition Benn would've definitely lost, maybe early if the goddamn ref didn't ruin everything. Many think it should've been ruled a first round KO.

Only stupid people who don't know the rules of boxing. If your knocked out the ring your technically aloud 20seconds recovery

McCellans condition was caused by BEnns punches

[Lampley]

He did not bring any brain condition into the fight. :lol:

Benn had always been a reasonably heavy handed fighter and hit McClellan with a lot of punches that night. G-Man was the one who was overmatched, the guy had only fought deep on a few occasions going into a fight against a man who was the very personification of all things TOUGH.

McClellan starts showing visible signs of distress early in the fight. We'll never know -- and your smiley face doesn't qualify as proof -- to what extent the condition was there before the fight and what Benn's punches did to start the final meltdown.

What we do know is that Benn was fortunate to survive the first round, and in fact he was nearly out on his feet toward the end of the fight. His legs were totally gone. McClellen, laboring to breathe at all by the 8th round, puts Benn down again but didn't have enough gas in the tank to finish the job.

Without a blood clot working against him, he'd have either stopped Benn earlier, and almost definitely would have put him out before the end of 12.

I know British fans want to romanticize that fight and Benn's heart was incredible, but let's not forget that he beat a guy who was severely handicapped. That's not Nigel's fault, but at 168 he wouldn't have beaten a healthy G-Man.

[yesihavearm]

Gerald was one of the hardest punchers ever at the weight.

He was RJJ's sparring partner, and after the incident, certain people close to RJJ have said that he's never really truly pressed for a knockout.

Oh yeah, Gerald beat RJJ in the amateurs - go look it up. He certainly would have been one of the best ever at the weight.


Oh and for people saying he deserves that for whatever he did to dogs can go to hell. Even if he did what the rumours say thats no grounds for him deserving brain damage, its not like there was people in those cages. Fucking hate all this animals equal humans shit. You dont say to someone who's eaten a Mcdonalds that they deserve brain damage cuz they've in theory participated in killing a cow ? Sort it out.

[hobgoblin]

McClellan is overrated as a puncher. His technique was very sloppy - look at his sloppy punches against Nigel Benn. He had him down on the ropes and couldn't finish up - reminded me of a sloppy George Foreman but worse because at least Foreman got his man. Julian Jackson is head and shoulders above him in power. If Jackson had Benn like that - Benn would have been toast. I won't be around for the week to get the flaming replies, but I speak the truth against popular notion. Round 1 - VERY sloppy & inaccurate punching (something very important when assessing a puncher).

[Ethan Trims]

Gerald was one of the hardest punchers ever at the weight.

He was RJJ's sparring partner, and after the incident, certain people close to RJJ have said that he's never really truly pressed for a knockout.

Oh yeah, Gerald beat RJJ in the amateurs - go look it up. He certainly would have been one of the best ever at the weight.


Oh and for people saying he deserves that for whatever he did to dogs can go to hell. Even if he did what the rumours say thats no grounds for him deserving brain damage, its not like there was people in those cages. Fucking hate all this animals equal humans shit. You dont say to someone who's eaten a Mcdonalds that they deserve brain damage cuz they've in theory participated in killing a cow ? Sort it out.

Well he tortured little animals, animals that would have been people's pets. He was a peice of shit plain and simple.

Your right, he didnt deserve just brain damage, he deserved worse.



I would never in my life torture an animal, I could never bring myself to it, but a piece of shit person like you or him, that would be easy and fun.

[Lampley]

I think McClellan was a terrific puncher, better even than Benn. That led to his ultimate downfall as a fighter, in fact, because he could almost always rely on his power to carry him.

G-Man was rangy and had power on the end of his punches, which is why I give him a fighting shot against prime Jones at 168. I think Roy had too much skill for him and a much better head (McClellan's whole life seemed headed down the wrong course) about him, but Jones vs. McClellan would have been some furiously intense shit in 1996.

But I disagree that Roy didn't push for KOs after 1995. He may not have taken as many chances for his own sake, but he seemed plenty willing to get a guy out of there against Griffin, and anyone who watched the Richard Hall fight knows he has no mercy.

Back on topic, I can understand both sides on McClellan as far as karmic retribution and all that. But you have to feel sorry for his sister, who lost her ability to do anything in life just trying to care for him.

[yesihavearm]

Well he tortured little animals, animals that would have been people's pets. He was a peice of shit plain and simple.

Your right, he didnt deserve just brain damage, he deserved worse.



I would never in my life torture an animal, I could never bring myself to it, but a piece of shit person like you or him, that would be easy and fun.


Oh no look what we have, another PETA activist. Instead of posting on Eastsideboxing forums how about you join your gay little friends in your stupid cruelty to animals protests which 90% of people couldnt give a shit about.

Yes, cruelty to animals is horrific and should be stopped. Fair enough.

But dont, ever, compare a pet's life to that of another person. How can you hold the human life in such low regard ? Yeah if he done those bad things he's a nasty piece of work and should be punished accordingly. But brain damage, basically taking away someones life. I feel sorry for him, and for his 2 sisters who spend $500 a day on medical care looking after Gerald. They now solely rely on donations from the public, as all his money won prizefighter has been spent keeping looking after him.
.
So before you hold the human life in such low regard and decide to humiliate yourself on the internet again, how about you follow some of Mark Twain's advice "It is better to be silent and thought of a fool, than to open your mouth and let everyone know for certain"

If the world was full of people like you, we'd be stuck in the stone-age. Dumbass.

[Ethan Trims]

Oh no look what we have, another PETA activist. Instead of posting on Eastsideboxing forums how about you join your gay little friends in your stupid cruelty to animals protests which 90% of people couldnt give a shit about.

Yes, cruelty to animals is horrific and should be stopped. Fair enough.

But dont, ever, compare a pet's life to that of another person. How can you hold the human life in such low regard ? Yeah if he done those bad things he's a nasty piece of work and should be punished accordingly. But brain damage, basically taking away someones life. I feel sorry for him, and for his 2 sisters who spend $500 a day on medical care looking after Gerald. They now solely rely on donations from the public, as all his money won prizefighter has been spent keeping looking after him.
.
So before you hold the human life in such low regard and decide to humiliate yourself on the internet again, how about you follow some of Mark Twain's advice "It is better to be silent and thought of a fool, than to open your mouth and let everyone know for certain"

If the world was full of people like you, we'd be stuck in the stone-age. Dumbass.

Humiliate myself? keep telling yourself that.


I feel bad for his sister, but then again life is cruel, and he was nasty human being who brought on that on himself. The world would be better off without him and his sister probably would be too.

I dont value animals lives more than people, just some people.

[hobgoblin]

Yeah, I don't need to explain myself, but you're way off base. You have to be kidding me.

I know Benn is a true warrior but McClellan had his man down and vulnerable and freely open for shots. Under these circumstances (credit to McClellan and a little it of luck for it), why couldn't McClellan lower down and land a few clean blows and get a TKO? He was grazing Benn (is this not true?) and I consider that sloppy given how vulnerable Benn was. Definitely think that some more accurate punchers would have ended it there.

[Lampley]

I do agree that Gerald headhunted way too much in that fight, sort of like Pacquiao did after getting the three KDs against JMM. It fucks with their head sometimes when they nearly end the fight but can't quite finish the guy off.

But against the ropes, I thought G-Man did about the best he could. Beyond that, there certainly were times when he didn't exercise much patience.

[brooklyn1550]

A3H9WncSd68



:yikes Devestating

[hobgoblin]

Benn had his head down, if McClellan had thrown straight shots they would've been rabbit punches. The angle he was throwing the punches didn't allow for the best power, but his pure power still held through and put iron chinned Benn through the ropes. He was a very good puncher and set his punches up perfectly, but when he had you hurt he went for the kill like no other, he was a killer, and he went all out, so it's acceptable that he may have gotten a little wild technically.

Just saw the 1st round again to refresh my memory. I have say that McClellan made a big blunder by not using the UPPERCUT! Uppercut would have been ideal to lift up Benn and set him up for clean lefts and rights to the chin. If he used this BASIC punch - his chances of TKO would have been greater (afraid to guarantee it as I do agree Benn was a warrior). I'm confident that Tyson, Louis, Foreman would not have failed to see this right away!

[Chief_Second]

i read that Mclellan used to shot his losing dogs with no remorse if they weren't killed by the other dog.

as a dog owner, he is today living his just punishment. ben is the magistrate and his fists gave the guy what he deserved!

[lenin]

does he still do dog fights? everyone gave Vick shit bout that but Gman is a saint.......

[achillesthegreat]

Is it true he used to hold dog fights and torture losing dogs to death?
Yes.

He was absolute garbage as a human being.

[Ethan Trims]

i read that Mclellan used to shot his losing dogs with no remorse if they weren't killed by the other dog.

as a dog owner, he is today living his just punishment. ben is the magistrate and his fists gave the guy what he deserved!

Its nice to see people of the same mind set.



I guess that Yesihvarm faget who was defending Gman didnt want to argue anymore, probably had an important session of dick beating to attend to.

[Lampley]

who was the ref that committed suicide after he was accused of a late or no stoppage?

I believe that was the Mancini fight from the early 1980s.

[yesihavearm]

Its nice to see people of the same mind set.



I guess that Yesihvarm faget who was defending Gman didnt want to argue anymore, probably had an important session of dick beating to attend to.


Do you speak any language that non-gibbering idiots can understand? Try learning elementary grammar before attempting to inflict your next literary abomination on this message board. Thanks for your contribution, but if I had wanted to hear from somebody with your IQ, I'd be at my local supermarket talking to the vegetables.

Right i'll say it one more time for you, maybe this time it will penetrate that infinatley thick head of yours.

"IF HE ACTUALLY DONE THE ANIMAL CRUELTY SHIT THEN YES HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED ACCORDINGLY"

Brain damage is NOT accordingly.

People like you who hold a stupid dogs life in the same regard as another persons need a serious reality check.

DOGS DONT EVEN HAVE THEORY OF MIND (Even know what that is?)
So who gives a shit what happens to them, as they dont actually know themselves.

Oh and leave off the death threats in the private messages thanks, makes you sound about 15. Now abide by a long-sentence of non-posting before I tell your parents, boy.

[Sonny's jab]

"IF HE ACTUALLY DONE THE ANIMAL CRUELTY SHIT THEN YES HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED ACCORDINGLY"

Brain damage is NOT accordingly.

People like you who hold a stupid dogs life in the same regard as another persons need a serious reality check.

DOGS DONT EVEN HAVE THEORY OF MIND (Even know what that is?)
So who gives a shit what happens to them, as they dont actually know themselves.

Dogs are capable of suffering and feeling pain, so what's "Theory of mind" got to do with it ?
Dogs dont have to "know" anything, they just feel the pain and suffer.

Also, McClellan wasn't "punished" for his actions against animals with his brain injury. The brain injury was a result of his FREE CHOICE to get in the ring as a professional boxer. It's a risk of the job.

The dogs who were maltreated by McClellan didnt have the choice to avoid their fate. He bragged about buying a labrador and feeding it to his fighting pitbull that he had beaten and brutalized and starved into a vicious killer. These stupid animals had no choice.

I'm no big animal rights activist but I can tell the difference between a decent human being and sick twisted scum.
Stupid dumb animals such as dogs fit in the pecking order well behind decent human beings, but they are above the sick twisted scum that barely qualify a "human".

[Sister Sledge]

You hate to say it but karma is a bitch. I'm not saying G-Man got what he deserved, but he wasn't a good man. Dog or not, not living thing should be maltreated and abused just for somebody elses pleasure.

[Sister Sledge]

For fuck's sake: he was a horrible person, ill-educated perhaps and ignorant. Did he deserve brain damage? Of course not.

A dog is an animal - they are lower in the food chain that humans. While mistreating them is undoubtedly cruel, it does not equate to brain-damage and potential living death sentence.

The Observer is not and never will be a reliable source. It is, more or less, tabloid journalism but in a grown-up format. the amount of retractions they have printed is incredible.

GMan deserved to be prosecuted and locked up. Pit bull fighting was, as far as I know, illegal at that time and still is.

I think there's some misconceptions about morality on in this discussion.

What he did was horrible and he deserves punished, but the suffering inflicted on his family as a result of it is surely not just: whatever way you look at it.

You are totally correct. It's just sad that G-man was such an asshole, so he doesn't have many supporters, and the only thing people remember is the dogfighting, the brain damage and his bad attitude.

[Napuis]

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it's really sad seeing one of the greatest boxers of the 90's in those conditions. the beating nigel benn gave gerald was a painful one, permanent brain damage, no hearing, and blind.

these pictures are from 2003 with his sister who has been taking care of the g-man since the day he lost conscious in the 1995 fight against benn.

Literally brings a tear to the eye.

[Sister Sledge]

No matter what we may think, he didn't deserve this fate.

[yesihavearm]

Exactly. People making fun of him should maybe have the experience themselves, see how funny it is then.

[mightyd40]

None of the people talking shit about him tortured and mutilated dogs for personal joy. Seriously, he was a fucked up person.

Yeah dogs are not humans, but they are pure-hearted animals that can feel pain and most of the other emotions humans feel, and can obviously feel physical pain and agony, and the son of a bitch tortured them while giving them no chance, and he did this REPEATEDLY, all the time to give his dogs a taste of blood.

Come the fuck on, he got brain damage, you guys wouldn't give two shits if he wasn't a boxer, you'd be happy he got what was coming to him. Fantastic boxer, shit human being.
my feelings exactly......fuck him

[Fallow]

Lampley, you’re beginning to sound like one of those retarded Klitschko fans who refuse to accept Lewis’ victory over Vitali because it came as a result of a cuts stoppage. Just like Vitali’s face was getting cut into ribbons as a result of Lewis’ punches, similarly, McClellan’s ‘condition’ was brought about by Benn’s punches. You say that British fight fans overly romanticise about the fight, well American fight fans are equally at fault in their repeated and worthless attempts to discredit Benn’s achievement.

Here is how history ultimately records the fight:

Benn KO10 McClellan

You’d do well to remember that. McClellan would not have beaten Nigel Benn on any night under any circumstances, either way you want to cut it, Nigel Benn was the superior fighter. If McClellan had a soft head then too bad, Benn didn’t – Point Benn.

[sandwichsurgeon]

You have to be fucking kidding me. You've seen how little I support G-Man in this thread, but what you said was completely ridiculous.

McClellan was dominating the fight, he was not supposed to be able to fight prior to this due to head problems but Don King made him fight anyway, and it took it's toll late with all the rabbit punches from Benn and the shit referee not doing anything about it.

McClellan had a soft head? :rofl :rofl :rofl He was known for having one of the best chins around. As I said, he wasn't supposed to even fight that night due to experiencing symptoms like that prior to the fight. He was already fucked up and he still managed to whoop Benn's ass until it took effect later in the fight, sped up by Benn's rabbit punches.

You have to be a complete idiot to say he never beats Benn. He was dominating. Nothing Benn did would've taken out G-Man had he been right, he went down from basically nothing, due to his head problems.

That fight was a damn shame as far as G-Man was concerned, but Benn got his ass whooped and won because his opponent was fucked up due to a mental condition. He didn't do shit to win except speed up the process by rabbit punching him.

Benn won due to guts, heart and determination, if you aren't willing to give him any credit for that fight you are either another predjudiced American or just a plain idiot who can't recognise courage when he see's it. And if Mclellan was dominating so much and was so far ahead and able to win when he collapsed why was his mouthpiece coming out due to fatigue? the bout was fought equally which is why it is so legendary, this was no one sided affair.

[Fallow]

He did not in any way, shape or form, ‘dominate the fight’. If he had dominated the fight then the fight would not be considered the modern day seesaw classic that it is. I have seen that fight probably in excess of 50+ times, it is probably my favourite fight of all time. McClellan exploded out of the blocks just like we all knew he would, he dominated the early rounds but from 3 onwards Benn was the one doing all the hurting. McClellan rallied in one of the later rounds but even then, as Benn was put down once again, I still knew Benn would prevail as the damage he had inflicted on McClellan’s soft head (yes, his head was soft, other men have endured similar even worse beatings without sustaining brain injuries) started to take its toll. The rabbit punching theory is equally spurious, watch the fight again and you’ll notice that McClellan himself also did his fair share of rabbit punching to Benn. Benn was just too fucking tough for the American.

[Lampley]

Fallow,

You seem to be taking this personally, and you shouldn't be. I give Benn all credit for fighting the guy in front of him that night, and it certainly was one of the great displays of courage you'll ever see. He deserved to win, based on that alone.

But to say McClellan had a "soft head" is fairly ignorant. It was a fluke injury that may or may not (if what Sweet Pea says is true) have had anything to do with Benn or that bout at all.

Despite being under extreme duress and struggling with his breathing (the mouthpiece dangling probably was due to the growing blood clot, or maybe it just didn't fit very well), he still nearly KOd Benn, and likely would have if he could have just finished the fight. Let's not overlook Gerald's courage in the fight, either.

McCellan was the superior fighter, and at that point in their careers by a substantial margin. Benn fought bravely and landed a bunch of good shots even in the 2nd round (before the real problems set it), but he was on a clock to getting KOd. Only thing was, Gerald was another clock of not being able to breathe.

Don't you understand now that the mere Benn KO10 McClellan doesn't exactly do this fight justice?

[Lampley]

There also was a clash of heads in there, either very serious or nothing but Benn's braids, depending on whom you ask.

I also have a copy of the fight and watch it occasionally, which is wildly brutal and morbidly fascinating. The pre-fight buildup was extremely nasty, and Benn I think gets a lot of unfair criticism for his remarks immediately after the fight.

It still amazes me that G-Man's corner didn't stop the fight much earlier. Everyone sitting at ringside with the exception of the American announcers seemed to understand there was a problem, and his corner should have been able to figure it out more quickly. I've heard (Sweet Pea, maybe you know this) that he started complaining early and told them what was happening, but they still failed to act out of fear or for whatever reason.

[Lampley]

What do you guys mean "IF what I say is true"? I thought what I was saying was pretty much excepted, which is why I'm laughing at Fallow for claiming what happened was Benn's doing. I thought this was common knowledge that he had problems prior to the fight and wasn't even supposed to be able to.

I'm not doubting you, I just hadn't heard that before. It's been speculated that he had the injury beforehand, I'm sure of that, but the only direct King story I can remember along those lines pertains to Ali/Frazier. But surely he's gone that route on many occasions.

[Napuis]

A bit of romanticising going on here. I remember both fighters rabbit punching badly, and McClellan even starting it. From then on Nigel Benn did it back and it turned into a dirty fight and a brutal war.

How does anyone know McClellan had '50%' brain damage prior to the fight...is there a source, a link, or just pure idle gossip?

[Fallow]

You can break this fight down, attempt to shift the focus away from the result and instead concentrate on semantics but it won’t wash. If McClellan was the superior fighter then he would not have lost to Benn, it really is that simple.

The whole “McClellan was carrying a grave brain injury into the ring with him” is simply yet another lame excuse typically applied retrospectively and can be added to the shit pile along with Wlad’s infamous blood-sugar deficiency.

It wasn’t until round 7 that McClellan started hanging his gum shield out – FACT. He was good for the 6 rounds prior yet still found himself down on the scorecards at that point (albeit marginally). Were it not for the knock down in the 8th Benn would have been clearly ahead.

The ref gave Benn a long count? Are people still clinging onto that limp-dicked excuse? I thought that one was buried years ago when the genius exponents of this theory realised much to their dismay that when a fighter is knocked out of the ring he is entitled by rule to an extended count.

I thought McClellan showed tremendous heart in that fight, and I believe some of the things written about him and his alleged lack of courage was extremely harsh. However, Benn was the better fighter, he managed to negate much of McClellan’s typically straight line power via the use of simple bob and weave tactics. Benn’s boxing skills were highly underrated and he had built up a lead prior to McClellan suffering the effects of his brain injury.

[ThePlugInBabies]

i'm not disputing it but where did this 'king paid off the doctors' rumour come from?

[ThePlugInBabies]

I'll answer you since I've had enough of Fallow's shit. Benn was not fucking winning. You have to be crazy or totally biased to think that.

I've heard it personally from different sources, but nothing concrete. As I said, I believe SI ran an article on the fight afterwards and how G-Man wasn't even supposed to be allowed to fight due to having problems beforehand, which makes me believe what they say and that King had something to do with the fight continuing, even against the doctor's orders.

cheers sweet pea. i remember seeing an interview some years back with a member of the g-mans team who talked about gerald suffering horrific headaches and migranes after the jackson fight and king apparently not giving two shits because he didn't want to have a potential cash cow retire.

[Fallow]

I'll answer you since I've had enough of Fallow's shit. Benn was not fucking winning. You have to be crazy or totally biased to think that. And yeah, what I've said is a legitimate excuse, not just some rubbish or what you claim(talking to Fallow).

Not crazy or bias (I am not British). I have studied that fight to a depth that you're simple mind could not possibly comprehend. The fight was competitive from the 2nd round onwards, Benn had little difficulty finding Gerald's head with his huge winging hooks.

As I said several posts back, if McClellan was dominating in the manor in which you are implying, then the fight would not be considered the modern day seesaw classic that it is, ergo, you're bitter, twisted and full of shit. :)

Let it go, your life will be easier, trust me.

[Fallow]

Why would I be bitter? Read my other posts in this thread about McClellan, I strongly disliked him. I somewhat feel he deserved what he got for what he did, but he was well on his way to winning that fight. You could make a case that the fight was see-saw, but you still don't acknowledge the fact that McClellan nearly had him out of there and that he KD'd him twice, which is why he was CERTAINLY up on the cards.

Why do I need to acknowledge it at all? All I am merely doing is destroying your preposterous assertion that it was a one-sided affair and that Benn was not in the fight. He was not well on his way to winning the fight, that is revisionist history and utter nonsense. Prior to the knockdown in the 8th McClellan was DOWN on the scorecards. Benn had taken most, if not all, of the middle rounds, clearly you were still mesmerised by the beatdown that McClellan handed Benn in the first. You should watch this fight again and revise your woefully distorted opinions, I guarantee you that you’ve not seen that fight as many times as I have.

It's not considered a modern day see-saw battle, it's reknowned because of how much heart both showed, how brutal it was, and most of all for how it ended up. Great fight, one guy(McClellan) was clearly the better fighter though, while the other fought back valiantly and showed heart.

Man… you’re not only contracting history but yourself too! How can, by your own admission, a brutal war where both men fought valiantly and showed tremendous heart be anything other than a seesaw classic? How can a fight where one man gets pummelled in the first, rally back to take the majority of the middle rounds, only to be bludgeoned to the canvas once more in the 8th and then come back and knock his man out in the 10th be anything other than a seesaw battle?!?!?!?

Please accept my apologies for the grammatical error, English is not my primary or secondary language.

[ThePlugInBabies]

You are the dumbest fucking British nuthugging imbecile I have ever seen on here. Mclellan destroyed Benn and would have destroyed and raped him 10 out of 10 times if he was fighting healthy. Benn had nothing on Mclellan and was basically knocked the fuck out (literally- out of the ring) in the first round.
Cry all you want but history knows who was the better fighter. Benn just like his power, was overrated.

you've just gone from one guys extreme to the other, mclellan was leading no doubt but to suggest he was 'destroying' benn is nuthugging of the highest order as well. benn certainly dished out his fair share of punishment as well, the second round is absolutely brutal when benn comes out like a bull and lands bomb after bomb on the g man.

[Fallow]

You are the dumbest fucking British nuthugging imbecile I have ever seen on here. Mclellan destroyed Benn and would have destroyed and raped him 10 out of 10 times if he was fighting healthy. Benn had nothing on Mclellan and was basically knocked the fuck out (literally- out of the ring) in the first round.

Cry all you want but history knows who was the better fighter. Benn just like his power, was overrated.

Get an education before you address me you petulant little child. McClellan got beaten squarely and fairly by a better man, and that just burns you to the bone. :lol:

Benn was taking those middle rounds against your over-hyped boy, the guy was too tough for him. He bobbed and weaved beneath McClellan’s assault and landed frequently and heavily on McClellan to take those rounds. Whilst McClellan was landing he was only landing with single shots, which Benn easily absorbed whilst continuing to push his man backwards.

[Fallow]

I guess multiple knockdowns including one out of the ring isn't enough "destruction" for you huh

And I guess having your man feeding through straws for several weeks and permanently disabling him isn't enough destruction for you either?

Two can play that game son.

[ThePlugInBabies]

I guess multiple knockdowns including one out of the ring isn't enough "destruction" for you huh

i'm not disputing the fact that the g-man was leading and probably should have gone on to win, but there is no doubt that once he tasted benns power in the second that he was not so keen to mix it up like he did in the first which allowed for a much closer fight than the one you seemed to be watching.

[Southy]

Fact is Mclellan didnt get him out of there and couldnt, Sick bastards always get it in the end he got it and some.
Benn=Warrior
mclellan=Shit human being

[Lampley]

Again, Fallow, your opinions on this fight constitute a great deal of wishful thinking.

No one can dispute Benn's amazing, courageous performance. And in the second round, while it at least appears McClellan is OK, Benn was tagging him with huge shots.

But you are simply wrong about the timing of Gerald's problems. He complained to his corner after the second round, but no one acted. And he started fighting with the mouthpiece out most likely because he was struggling already with his breathing.

And certainly, by the time the 8th round rolls around, he is suffering tremendously. Still, he nearly takes Benn out. Do you recall how rubbery Nigel was at the end?

He did land some clean shots on G-Man in the 10th, but Gerald didn't fall like a hurt fighter. He very calmly takes a knee and is blinking furiously by this point. I have the fight on my machine. Don't like to watch it very frequently, but it's must-see material if you're interested in either McClellan or Benn.

[Kolya]

Everyone who's ever fought Nigel Benn has said that he's a ridiculous puncher; isn't it possible, just maybe, that one of the shots he landed began McClellan's downfall? How about giving Nigel some credit here, people; no one gave him any chance and he came back from the brink to KO a heavily favored opponent. His going outside the ring doesn't matter; what matters is he got up from it.

[Ethan Trims]

Do you speak any language that non-gibbering idiots can understand? Try learning elementary grammar before attempting to inflict your next literary abomination on this message board. Thanks for your contribution, but if I had wanted to hear from somebody with your IQ, I'd be at my local supermarket talking to the vegetables.

This must be a nerd trying too hard to be intelligent for his own good. "Literary abomination" :lol: Keep trying little guy.



"IF HE ACTUALLY DONE THE ANIMAL CRUELTY SHIT THEN YES HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED ACCORDINGLY"

Brain damage is NOT accordingly.

Whatever, I'm not crying over him getting brain damage and barely anyone else is either. You one of the few. No law needs to punish him, it seems karma did the trick.

People like you who hold a stupid dogs life in the same regard as another persons need a serious reality check.

We have already been through this. NO I DONT HOLD A DOGS LIFE IN THE SAME REGARD AS A PERSONS. but I DO HOLD AN ANIMALS LIFE IN A HIGHER REGARD THEN A PIECE OF SHIT HUMAN BEINGS. Try to understand that now.

DOGS DONT EVEN HAVE THEORY OF MIND (Even know what that is?)
So who gives a shit what happens to them, as they dont actually know themselves.
But they can feel pain just like humans, and most people on this earth outside of the asian culture have a close relationship with canines and dont like to see them abused especially by a rich wealthy person with who's seeking a sick gratification from that animal suffering.




Oh and leave off the death threats in the private messages thanks, makes you sound about 15. Now abide by a long-sentence of non-posting before I tell your parents, boy.

In person I wouldnt do that, I would just bitch slap you because thats what a bitch deserves and that what you are to me. Any more effort to humiliate you is wasted time and energy.

You should choose your battles a little more carefully next time.

[Ethan Trims]

None of the people talking shit about him tortured and mutilated dogs for personal joy. Seriously, he was a fucked up person.

Yeah dogs are not humans, but they are pure-hearted animals that can feel pain and most of the other emotions humans feel, and can obviously feel physical pain and agony, and the son of a bitch tortured them while giving them no chance, and he did this REPEATEDLY, all the time to give his dogs a taste of blood.

Come the fuck on, he got brain damage, you guys wouldn't give two shits if he wasn't a boxer, you'd be happy he got what was coming to him. Fantastic boxer, shit human being.

Nicely put.

[Lampley]

3) King should never have let him fight. He had been suffering a continuous concussion since the Jackson fight - the doctor's advice that he not be allowed to fight was serious enough that Emanuel Steward wasn't in his corner that night. We know Don King's a piece of shit.


Tremendous overall post. I think I agree with it all. Whatever Gerald brought into the ring with him that night, his poor defense and Benn's aggression clearly played a role in the tragic outcome.

I've isolated the part above for the same reason I asked Sweet Pea about this earlier. Where did you see this information? There's so much info out there about this fight, I just have stumbled across it yet.

[Ethan Trims]

Just for comparison though, to all the people that think he got what he deserved: do you feel happy that Sugar ray Robinson got alzheimers and led the last years of his life in such an undignified way?

Is that karma for his beating his wife up for years?

Or will you defend him because he's the greatest of all time and that dismisses HIS faults?

Wat Ray did was much, much worse that Gerald.

Spousal abuse is a much more complex crime than animal cruelty. There are plenty of manipulative, evil, crazy women in this world who encourage and enjoy that sort of thing. I have known alot of women like this.

Animal cruelty specifically torturing an animal is basically just to see an animal suffer. Pretty simple.

Im not too familiar with the SRR situation, maybe him and his wife had a love/hate relationship. Maybe she was cheating on him and broke his heart. It certainly isnt isnt like going out of your way too buy a puppy at a pet shop then feeding it to your pitbulls.

You know almost all serial killers start out with animal cruelty, so you see the kind of person that engages in this sort of thing.

[ELGALLO]

Personally I don't give a fuck about animal cruelty anyway - it's not like they know WTF's going on. People shouldn't be so pathetic, man, but maybe I'm just as hard as they come

I'm more concerned about human's

WE FOUND HIM!! HERE IS HUGHWEB....THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION "WHO IS THE MOST HUMAN BEING ALIVE?"

[ELGALLO]

WE FOUND HIM!! HERE IS HUGHWEB....THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION "WHO IS THE MOST IGNORANT HUMAN BEING ALIVE?"

U KNOW?

[Ethan Trims]

1) yes, it can be complex, but the abuse is certainly not enjoyable. hence abuse?

There are crazy women who have been so systematically removed of self-esteem that that is a relationship for them. the man's aggression and domination are intrinsically desired. I think your knowing a lot of women like that perhaps extends to the explanations that have been offered up to you. I only know one girl who enjoyed being hit full on (excluding spanking and such) - and she was a fucking nut. but there was a barrier she wouldn't cross from what she said. From what his wife said, it was a major reason for her leaving him. He hit his kids as well - just because he was complex and emotionally damaged doesn't excuse it. Mclellan, from all accounts, was poorly educated and fairly damaged himself.

If that is the case with SRR then I would agree with you he is a complete piece of shit. Complete dominance and abuse over a woman is torture in itself. He is no better than Mcclellan.

We really should stay on the topic at hand though.


2) he cheated on her and, if she complained, she got belted. it wasn't occassional - it was constant and brutal. A trained boxer with notorious heft hitting a woman in the face is terrifying. You're right, it's nothing like going out of your way to buy an animal - it a continuous abuse of trust and dispicable violence. Much worse. An animal is not worth as much as a human.

Either way, i doubt the source of the Mclellan story - it was very biased and offered no real corroboration for the information. there was no counter-point or offer for the other side of the story. it was riddled with bias all the way through.

If there is a good possibility that the Gman story isnt true but with that logic the SRR wife beating story could be poked full of holes too. If SRR was never charged with a crime just like Mcclellan than his word is as good as his wifes and so on and so on.

You asked earlier in a question "Is that karma paying him back too." Maybe it is.


3) That's not entirely true - in some cases, yes - but there's plenty of people who torture animals who don't become serial killers. What are you basing that fairly sweeping statement on?

What am I baseing it on? It's common knowledge that one of the signs that a kid will grow up to be a serial killer is animal cruelty.


There's a stronger basis for serial killers traditionally coming from sexually repressed backgrounds - or with deviant sexual behaviours - than the animal cruelty side. Either way, it would make sense for violent people to have an interest in violent crime or violent industries (slaughterhouses are relatively common) or, logically, violent sports.

Of course they come from some form of abuse inflicted upon the individual, not abuse the individual has already inflicted.:huh


he was a very unpleasant man, I'm sure, but I wouldn't wish brian damage in anyone, no matter what they've done.

You may be the type of person who is forgiving and doesnt hold ill will, thats your perogative. But dont expect other people to feel the same way.

The reason i made the comparison was to illustrate the hypocrisy of chastising Mclellan for a horrific, cruel and unproven act but not someone like Robinson who, it is well-accepted, beat his wife maliciously and often.

i stand by this: it's a terrible thing and Mclellan was a bad bad man. But he didn't deserve to be hurt the way he was, for his sake, his families sake and, as it turned out, for Benn's sake.


It is what it is. If he did what every one is alleging he did, then I certainly wont complain about his fate. But I have sympathy for the rest of the people you listed.

If those SRR did what is alleged he did then that should not be ignored either. It doesnt change though he was one of the greatest P4P of all time. And if likewise it shouldnt alter Gman's boxing reputation. But you should hold your sympathies elsewhere other than with these individuals. Thats my take on it.

[Fighting Weight]

An animal is not worth as much as a human.


What gives you the right to say that?

I disagree strongly, life is life. Sure we are meat eaters and all that and you can state the McDonalds/KFC argument as much as you like but no human has the right to torture innocent animals for his or her pleasure. Gerald McClellan was an ignorant motherfucker who partook in this and took delight in torturing defenceless animals. That makes him a worthless piece of shit in my book, and knowing that Nigel Benn put him in a state where he pisses and shits his pants daily and cries to his scumbag sister for help brings a big fucking smile to my face.

I've got no sympathy for this piece of shit, and none for his family either - they must know how he behaved before good old Nigel cabbaged the bastard, if they had any sense and decency they'd have just turned their backs on him way before he got fucked up. If any member of my family had acted like this piece of shit there's no way I'd waste my life taking care of them. Also McClellans family have said some hateful crap about Benn over the years, which gives you some kind of indication of what kind of human garbage you're dealing with here.

Fuck McClellan, he's got all this pain now, and still there's hell to look forward to. Good riddance to bad trash when he croaks.

As for the fight, for what it's worth I remember seeing it live and thinking there was something seriously wrong with McClellan from the 2nd round on, just watched it again on youtube and his mouthpiece was hanging out as early as the 2nd round so it's probably fair to say that he wasn't in tip top shape when he fought Nigel. Like I give a fuck.

[Lampley]

There, you said it: fucked in the head. Mclellan, I think we can all agree, was not right as a person. So, with his limited moral compass, combined with the stellar company he kept (Don King) - is not a surprise he turned into a rotten human?

His attitude to women was equally shit - I don't know about abuse in his case, but he was certainly loose with the old trousers around whoever would give him some.

I think a lot of the ire comes from it being dogs rather than any genuine outrage. oh, they are our friends and historically so, but it's not right to say "I hope he fucking dies".

Ray was a repeat offender - it wasn't an occasional thing - the man had serious emotional problems.

Thos problems don't excuse his behaviour but they do go some way to explaining it.

Ever -EVER - hitting your wife for WHATEVER reason is wrong. It is worse than animal abuse because it is an attack on the trust and intimacy you share with a partner.

Cruelty to animals is wrong: they are vulnerable creatures with limited intellects, but in no way does it compare to the abuse and damage to an individual sentient human.

I disagree with you to an extent here. To an atheist, there is nothing necessarily superior about human life versus that of animals/flowers/mildew/etc. You can't say that it is objectively worse to hit a woman than it is to hit a dog. People are allowed to make value judgments about various forms of life as they please. I certainly believe humans are superior, but there's a huge difference between truth and societal convention.

Having said that, then, Ray may have acted worse than McClellan (in my view and yours), but what Gerald did was more disturbing. Clearly, both guys had serious emotional issues, but Gerald seemed to be the more demented of the two.

Killing and torturing animals for the purpose of casual entertainment is a depraved act that is difficult for most people to fathom. I don't believe most people believe killing a dog is equal to habitually beating a wife, but along with the generally recognized view that humans are superior, another human convention says that you don't fuck with innocents.

Domestic animals are innocents. Children are innocents. Children grow to become adults, but while they are kids they enjoy far more protection under the law because of their inability to support or defend themselves.

Even hardened criminals will go out of their way to savagely rape the shit out of a pedophile. You don't fuck with kids. The emotional responses you see on this thread about McClellan are operating under the same set of assumptions. You don't fuck with domestic animals.

I don't perceive there to be anything hypocritical about the responses. I wish Gerald weren't hurt, mostly for everyone's sake, plus my silly optimism that he'd have mellowed eventually and redeemed himself within the animal community. You never know.

But if someone else feels differently, that's merely a strong reaction within the same set of parameters -- again, convention -- that dictates human life is superior to animal life.

[Bad_Intentions]

interesting....

[David UK]

Sweetpea and Lampley seem to be the only two guys with brains I've ever heard speak on this subject. All the fuckin ignorant nuthugging brits keep talking about how Benn destroyed Mclellan and whatnot. Do these morons not realize that for the majority of the fight Mclellan was becoming increasingly handicapped as evidenced by his acting confused and incessantly blinking etc towards the middle of the fight and onwards? They think Benn beat a healthy Mclellan yet Benn was getting rocked and annihilated in there by a fuckin guy who was already losing consciousness.
What a joke, a healthy Mclellan would have had Benn outta there within 5 rounds.

What a tool you are. Just accept that your supposedly tough man wasn't as tough as all you Yanks thought when he came up against someone who wasn't going to lie down for him and actually show some grit and determination to fight back. McCLELLAN LOST, HE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH-GET OVER IT!! Besides, McClellan was a right wanker so I wouldn't be too sentimental about him darling:D

[ThePlugInBabies]

Also McClellans family have said some hateful crap about Benn over the years, which gives you some kind of indication of what kind of human garbage you're dealing with here.

indeed, one of the g-mans sisters famously said in an interview, i think to a british newspaper, 'first we'll take benns money, then we want him dead'. for years they though it didn't affect benn at all and claim he showed no remorse.

[Taffyy]

Well he tortured little animals, animals that would have been people's pets. He was a peice of shit plain and simple.

Your right, he didnt deserve just brain damage, he deserved worse.



I would never in my life torture an animal, I could never bring myself to it, but a piece of shit person like you or him, that would be easy and fun.
Im a hunting man..........I hunt with dogs.............Bunny huggers say Its cruel what I do...............Why....????..........Cos they dont know the fucking facts..........They read "articles" & overhyped shite in their papers & take it as gospel then go & judge people on the back of it.........If he was into his match dogs then thats his buisness & if your one of the gullible cunts who falls for the medias bullshit about this type of things then that says it all............Really cant believe some of the wankers on here saying a man "deserves" what happened to him.........:? ............ If he was a rapist or a peado then fair enough
As far as the actual fight is concerned................I really cant believe that certain posters "sweet pea" for example are saying that G was giving Benn an arse whipping.........????...........For fucks sake watch the fight again son !!!!.......After the intial onslaught its a right old see saw with Benn slightly edging it in the middle rounds..........Another point....."G cam into the fight with a problem"..............Yeh he looked like he was struggling when he put Benn through the ropes......for fucks sake........Some of these american posters are so full of shit...........Its tragic what happened but the huge shots landed on G by Benn are what caused it.............Who knows what would have happened had it continued but , please dont give me the bollocks that Benn was being dominated thats just fucking daft..........

[bill poster]

I did'nt realise McClellan had a brain injury from the Jackson fight.. alot of observers said that G mans mouth piece was not helping him breathe- it seems he was using a mouthpiece not strictly suitable for boxing(correct me if wrong).
Benn was the quintessential brit underdog warrior- beat every american fighter put in front of him
All the anti brit brigade -Remember the brits laid on a charity fundraiser in G Mans honour recently.

[ELGALLO]

[quote=Taffyy]Im a hunting man..........I hunt with dogs.............Bunny huggers say Its cruel what I do...............Why....????..........Cos they dont know the fucking facts..........They read "articles" & overhyped shite in their papers & take it as gospel then go & judge people on the back of itquote]

Taffy you hunt?? LOL There'a noble act. Yeah, go out with a gun and chase some animal who is living free and kill him... THAT is akin to suddenly chasing some guy on the street and trying to shoot him as he runs away from you...but he has no gun, no idea why u are chasing him and no way to retailiate against you. Yeah, thats a real sport, there huh? Its funny to me when idiots like you chase these animals downand kill them and then brag about it LOL Putting their heads up on your den wall like you really did something. Like they were told ahead of time what was even happening and given a way to compete. Moron

[Taffyy]

Elgallo..................you ignorant fucking CUNT !!!!!!!!!!...............Firstly ...PRICK.........I hunt as I said with Dogs........Dogs chasing down quarry that they would in the wild.........The difference being I put the catch in my freezer.........Its Nobheads like you who live in your fucking city eating your KFC's & Mcdonalds a million miles from the countryside who make uninformed judgements on things you know nothing about.....If you want to start a crusade for animals stop eating meat & go & free some Battery hens.......Thats cruelty......I mean your retarded reply shows that you've got a media driven sterotype of hunting as it is you fucking dickweed........
This is for you...........They were fucking delicious..........!!!!!!!!!!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
As for the Boxing the thread started with...........I'll agree to disagree on that score...........Whatever myself & Sweetpea think we have to agree it was an excellent fight with tragi consequences.............

[Lampley]

You seem to agree that mclellan was damaged and quite possibly very ignorant. in that case I would argue his re-education was required rather than be given brain damage.

He was a crap human being, but I just can't agree with the logic that he deserved to be mentally disabled for what he did.

And, as an atheist, i still believe humans are superior creatures - not because God made us, but because we have more complex thought processes and a sense of morality.

Dogs don't sense emotions in the way humans do, they can manipulate it, but they don't really understand it.

I don't agree with animal cruelty, but the topic is whether someone desrves a degraded life because of previous sins: well, whatever the emotive feelings about animal torture, you can't compare it to paedophilia. they are miles apart and I still don't condone the torture of paedophiles.

I'm just an old-fashioned humanitarian, i guess.

I'm going to assume you are addressing me. I feel the same as you regarding the dynamic between humans and other animals, but my contention earlier was that you seemed to be stating y/our view as fact, when in fact that perspective is no more or less valid than someone else's.

Although I wish Gerald weren't hurt, I can understand why others feel so strongly against him.

As for pedophilia, again, some -- but probably not many -- might argue that children and puppies deserve equal status, and thus harming one is the same as harming the other. But no, personally, I wouldn't put G-Man's actions on a par with a pedophiles.

[Lacyace]

Damn man. G-Man looks f'd up.

[castle]

Elgallo..................you ignorant fucking CUNT !!!!!!!!!!...............Firstly ...PRICK.........I hunt as I said with Dogs........Dogs chasing down quarry that they would in the wild.........The difference being I put the catch in my freezer.........Its Nobheads like you who live in your fucking city eating your KFC's & Mcdonalds a million miles from the countryside who make uninformed judgements on things you know nothing about.....If you want to start a crusade for animals stop eating meat & go & free some Battery hens.......Thats cruelty......I mean your retarded reply shows that you've got a media driven sterotype of hunting as it is you fucking dickweed........
This is for you...........They were fucking delicious..........!!!!!!!!!!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
As for the Boxing the thread started with...........I'll agree to disagree on that score...........Whatever myself & Sweetpea think we have to agree it was an excellent fight with tragi consequences.............

:good yeehaw some great meat there better than that cardboard cutout meat you get in the supermarkets ..........like the old hunting myself nothing like the taste and goodness of wild meat better than the steriod chemical laden crap the majority of people eat
If McCelland did fight dogs he was only one of thousands of people who does .........if you those saying he got what he deserved get off your fecking arse and do something about the ones out there still fighting them here have a look at this video its 45 mins long
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[Bad_Intentions]

Elgallo..................you ignorant fucking CUNT !!!!!!!!!!...............Firstly ...PRICK.........I hunt as I said with Dogs........Dogs chasing down quarry that they would in the wild.........The difference being I put the catch in my freezer.........Its Nobheads like you who live in your fucking city eating your KFC's & Mcdonalds a million miles from the countryside who make uninformed judgements on things you know nothing about.....If you want to start a crusade for animals stop eating meat & go & free some Battery hens.......Thats cruelty......I mean your retarded reply shows that you've got a media driven sterotype of hunting as it is you fucking dickweed........
This is for you...........They were fucking delicious..........!!!!!!!!!!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
As for the Boxing the thread started with...........I'll agree to disagree on that score...........Whatever myself & Sweetpea think we have to agree it was an excellent fight with tragi consequences.............deer meat.

delicious :tired

[bill poster]

The Benn McClellan fight was probably the most purely brutal and exciting fight I ever saw-more so than the Jackson fight IMO.. McClellan said some stuff about what he was going to do to Benn, cue Benn's dad getting involved pre fight!! So there was no love between the fighters going in. I don't think McClellan would have beat Benn that night regardless

[hobgoblin]

Sugar Ray Robinson's son thinks that the second wife had 5 miscarriages due to the beatings. He & Gman are both extremely, unforgivably, EVIL. Gman has been punished fairly - SRR should have been tortured by his second wife with pliers & blowtorch (Marcellus Wallace from Pulp Fiction) and she should have started at the knees. Liston was a Saint in comparison to these too - unlike these too, Liston actually had some real good in him but never got the opportunity or the loyalty from fans that he deserved while he was alive.

[2smart4u]

Sugar Ray Robinson's son thinks that the second wife had 5 miscarriages due to the beatings. He & Gman are both extremely, unforgivably, EVIL. Gman has been punished fairly - SRR should have been tortured by his second wife with pliers & blowtorch (Marcellus Wallace from Pulp Fiction) and she should have started at the knees. Liston was a Saint in comparison to these too - unlike these too, Liston actually had some real good in him but never got the opportunity or the loyalty from fans that he deserved while he was alive.:smoke were did you hear this ? I seem to remember RAY being accused of being a didler but I cant remember from what source !

[Ethan Trims]

Im a hunting man..........I hunt with dogs.............Bunny huggers say Its cruel what I do...............Why....????..........Cos they dont know the fucking facts..........They read "articles" & overhyped shite in their papers & take it as gospel then go & judge people on the back of it.........If he was into his match dogs then thats his buisness & if your one of the gullible cunts who falls for the medias bullshit about this type of things then that says it all............Really cant believe some of the wankers on here saying a man "deserves" what happened to him.........:? ............ If he was a rapist or a peado then fair enough
As far as the actual fight is concerned................I really cant believe that certain posters "sweet pea" for example are saying that G was giving Benn an arse whipping.........????...........For fucks sake watch the fight again son !!!!.......After the intial onslaught its a right old see saw with Benn slightly edging it in the middle rounds..........Another point....."G cam into the fight with a problem"..............Yeh he looked like he was struggling when he put Benn through the ropes......for fucks sake........Some of these american posters are so full of shit...........Its tragic what happened but the huge shots landed on G by Benn are what caused it.............Who knows what would have happened had it continued but , please dont give me the bollocks that Benn was being dominated thats just fucking daft..........

[Only registered and activated users can see links]_continue


Read that entire article, and if you still stand by your statement then you can kiss my ass. If mccllellan did just that, then I still stand by my statements.

[hobgoblin]

:smoke were did you hear this ? I seem to remember RAY being accused of being a didler but I cant remember from what source !

"He abused his second wife, Edna Mae, so brutally that their son, Ray II, believes it was the cause of her five miscarriages."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

You can say that the author had his agenda or just listed dirt (I don't know - if anything the review indicates that the author lazily & callously dismissed SRR's evil deeds so he could be pro-SRR). Still, this info comes directly from SRR's own son!

[2smart4u]

"He abused his second wife, Edna Mae, so brutally that their son, Ray II, believes it was the cause of her five miscarriages."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

You can say that the author had his agenda or just listed dirt (I don't know - if anything the review indicates that the author lazily & callously dismissed SRR's evil deeds so he could be pro-SRR). Still, this info comes directly from SRR's own son!:good thanks !

[Taffyy]

I think alot of people are to quick to believe so called "stories" in the media......These fucking reptiles need to sell papers........& they know in situations involving animal cruelty as an example they can tug on the gullible masses heart strings............Most of the time its sensationalist bollocks......As I said Im a hunting man & believe me or not I dont like cruelty........You havent got to be cruel to hunt............If G was into his dogs then thats his buisness................but if he was baiting them with curs of the street then thats cuntish & out of order & maybe he was a bit of a prick.......but to say he deserves brain damage while at the sport we all love........still think thats a bit out of order........

[Rock0052]

I'm not going to lie though, if I were a filmmaker I would totally rip off that scene of Mclellan running over flamingos in the parking lot laughing his ass off. I'd chalk that up under the "truth is stranger than fiction" column.

[don owens]

what goes around comes around. tough shit.

[Taffyy]

Flux
There you go , I hope that makes you feel better - Im sorry but I like using full stops its a habit.
Just another thought here though , Alot of posters are moaning about "evil bastards" who love the thrill & sport of dogfighting , Im not sticking up for the real cruel fuckers who bait animals but you would be suprised in alot of cases how well looked after "working" dogs are & how much goes into preperation for whatever thier work may be......
In my case my dogs need to be in the best condition for hunting but In the fighting dog scene it obviously for fighting , What I cant make out is how people on a site where we enjoy watching two HUMANS smash each other until one is either knocked out or stopped or after suffering maybe broken bones , lacerations & internal injuries looses a desicion , Who enjoy a sport where we celebrate "great" knockouts & laugh at fighters "legs going" etc...etc fucking stc..........What I cant make out is in the next breath these people have a fucking fit about 2 dogs doing nigh on the exact same thing to each other & in most cases are stopped when one has achived the upper hand...............Think about it the irony is that it was brought up on a thread about how one boxer suffered brain damage in front of a baying crowd , Jesus us humans are fickle..............

[bigG]

mclelland was a great banger, a great fighter...but a bully fighter..he had benn out of the ring and trapped on the ropes in the first round.....watch the fight, as i have, many times, and you will see the exact point benn wins the fight, the exact point mclelland realises just how hard benn is gonna hit him all night...its the first round, mclelland is trying in vain to take benn out of there with nigel unsteeady on his feet, back to the ropes, in autopilot mode, bobbing and weaving...jim watt doing the itv comentary shouts, 'benns in trouble here, these punches he's throwing are just arm punches...theres nothing in them'...BAM...watt shouts excitedly..'there was something in that one.!!!'.....gerald takes a step back having tasted the hurt benns firepower....and the look on his face shows he doesnt like it...if you dont believe it, watch the fight...it happens just like that....i knew benn had the fight then......he may not have been the better boxer...but benn was in a different league as a fighter.....instinct took over lots of times with nigel, antony logan, lou gent, even de wit and barkley hurt him..but his fighting heart and power got him out of jail...for me, the fight itself shows us everything that is bad and beautiful about our game...two men at the limits of their human endurance dishing out savage beatings to each other, heart and will keeping them going..two men whom history will inexorably link in a primeval, savage battle fighting, ultimately and sadly, to the death in front of a partisan baying crowd.......grotesquely fascinating to watch, almost gladitorial......and im not over romanticising the fight...it was, for me, the greatest fight iv ever watched live...(on tv, but live...)....i had nigel ahead, ie PHYSICALLY winning in the fight at the time of the ko, but the fight scoring about even on points due to geralds two knockdowns...the second knockdown is even more amazing than the first, and for those who question benns chin, i suggest you take a look at it.....it surprises me not one jot to hear that gerald was a shitty person.....anyone who inflicts that kind of damage on dumb animals is a sick twisted man....and im not one of the politically correct treehuggers..i eat meat and have no problem killing my own...but i dont eat meat unless its been organically raised and had a good standard of life, something the petrified lab the g man fed to his emaciated pit bulls never experienced...personally, id think fuck all of gagging and throwing anyone i suspected of this kind of attrocitie in with some starving dogs....nothing like empathy to let people see the error of their ways......benn, unfortunately for the g man was his nemesis, his starving pit bull...his oncoming disability was his metaphoric gag...he no doubt experienced the same resigned, helpless fear and pain that lab did.....dont quarrel with karma.......

[Taffyy]

Appreciate your reply there Flux..........

[castle]

Flux
There you go , I hope that makes you feel better - Im sorry but I like using full stops its a habit.
Just another thought here though , Alot of posters are moaning about "evil bastards" who love the thrill & sport of dogfighting , Im not sticking up for the real cruel fuckers who bait animals but you would be suprised in alot of cases how well looked after "working" dogs are & how much goes into preperation for whatever thier work may be......
In my case my dogs need to be in the best condition for hunting but In the fighting dog scene it obviously for fighting , What I cant make out is how people on a site where we enjoy watching two HUMANS smash each other until one is either knocked out or stopped or after suffering maybe broken bones , lacerations & internal injuries looses a desicion , Who enjoy a sport where we celebrate "great" knockouts & laugh at fighters "legs going" etc...etc fucking stc..........What I cant make out is in the next breath these people have a fucking fit about 2 dogs doing nigh on the exact same thing to each other & in most cases are stopped when one has achived the upper hand...............Think about it the irony is that it was brought up on a thread about how one boxer suffered brain damage in front of a baying crowd , Jesus us humans are fickle..............
McCelland wasnt and isnt the only boxer to indulge in sporting dogs for the pit heres a few here have more pics of boxers with their sporting pits
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
bramble
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[bigG]

McCelland wasnt and isnt the only boxer to indulge in sporting dogs for the pit heres a few here have more pics of boxers with their sporting pits
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
bramble
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

as taffy rightly points out, there is a huge difference between genuine dog fighters and people who act like the g man is ALLEGED to have acted...genuine dog fighters keep their dogs like racehorses, well fed and well trained...in a proper dogfight under us rules as i recall, the dogs fight till one of them turns, ie trys to get away...dogs are then seperated and the dog that turned has 30seconds to scratch, ie try and get back into the fray as its handler holds it back...if it does, the fight goes on, if not, its over.....now not every fight is as semi civilised as that as many of these dogs will never attempt to turn so as a result some fights will be long and bloody brutal affairs......a dog that doesnt want to fight wont fight.....only dogs bred for fighting from good stock will actually want to fight, and to continue to fight once started......if anyone knows more about this, please feel fre to correct me, this information comes from a book i owned many many years ago about dog fighting in america.......and the book was completely scathing about people who allowed dogs to fight with no control and no rules and deplored behaviuor like g man is alleged to have shown, setting fighting dogs on family pets and destroying losers...some of the pepole in the book it appeared, loved their dogs more than anything else in their world!!.......i have three dogs as pets, one is a pit cross.....my dogs are spoiled domestic animals so its probably fair to say i suffer from a fair bit of knee jerk reaction when i hear of unspeakable cruelty to any dog....yet morally, two dogs who want to fight fighting for the entertainment of a crowd with rules in place for their best interest is probably no different that two fighters squaring off......i could and would never attend a dog fight...i find the thought of it repugnant..yet i would go to a boxing match in a heartbeat, even when, as the benn mclelland fight tragically shows, i know damn fine it might ultimately end in tragedy...go figure

[Taffyy]

Thankyou for the reply big G...............You are right about some of the rules there with dogs too.............Again though it is strange that we think nothing of watching to Humans beat each other senseless for our entertainment but some of the same guys are in fits when fighting dogs or birds are mentioned.............strange.........

[Taffyy]

I agree to a point Flux but as with a type of hunting I do with terriers when hunting fox , I cant force them into an earth & I cant make them engage their quarry , It is in them ginetically & to seek out their foe & is the reason for the breed existing.
A huge percentage of dog breeds are here because they were specifically bred for working purposes without which they would not be here at all , Im not justifying dogfighting but I can understand the time , care & commitment that goes with it , In reference to comparisons between animal fighting & our sport , I still see huge similarities , granted a dog cant tell you he wants to fight but if he doesnt want to fight he wont fight & will be stopped after less than a minute but the injuries , the conditioning , the training the afterfight treatment , the money - all this for the baying crowds who want to see one beat the other those things are identical.Us boxing fans shrug & say "tragic" when a fighter gets badly injured , We whoop & shout when a fighter gets KO'd , We brag when our chosen hero cuts an opponents face to ribbons with well placed shots & revel in replaying rib breaking punches , Some of us then are up in arms when we here about 2 dogs fighting , Honestly I find it amazing & so very full of contradiction.............

[carras]

what goes arround, comes arround....

[fists of fury]

I agree to a point Flux but as with a type of hunting I do with terriers when hunting fox , I cant force them into an earth & I cant make them engage their quarry , It is in them ginetically & to seek out their foe & is the reason for the breed existing.
A huge percentage of dog breeds are here because they were specifically bred for working purposes without which they would not be here at all , Im not justifying dogfighting but I can understand the time , care & commitment that goes with it , In reference to comparisons between animal fighting & our sport , I still see huge similarities , granted a dog cant tell you he wants to fight but if he doesnt want to fight he wont fight & will be stopped after less than a minute but the injuries , the conditioning , the training the afterfight treatment , the money - all this for the baying crowds who want to see one beat the other those things are identical.Us boxing fans shrug & say "tragic" when a fighter gets badly injured , We whoop & shout when a fighter gets KO'd , We brag when our chosen hero cuts an opponents face to ribbons with well placed shots & revel in replaying rib breaking punches , Some of us then are up in arms when we here about 2 dogs fighting , Honestly I find it amazing & so very full of contradiction.............

There is no contradiction whatsoever. I love boxing and despise dog fighting.

In boxing, it's everyone's FREE CHOICE to participate in it. It is a sport that is conducted under controlled conditions with protective gear and a referee. It isn't a free-for-all street fight.

Dog fights are forced upon the participants. There is no free choice. In addition, these dogs are trained to become more vicious by being beaten and generally abused. Boxers aren't, unless they want it that way.
Oh yeah...boxers don't beat up defenceless, timid men in sparring sessions either. Fighting dogs are often trained to fight by using helpless animals as bait, which are torn to shreds.

Lastly, old boxers can retire, some to a life of anonymity and others to a life where they enjoy the adulation of millions of fans. In either case, they are usually comfortable in retirement.

Now tell me, what happens to old fighting dogs?

Dog fighting goes way deeper than the actual fighting.

[Taffyy]

An old fighting dog that has proved itself will be kept & used for stud its blood , like that of a racehorse is prized & it will live out its life sowing its seed basically...........
From your post I see yet another poster who just cant face the truth of things & is spewing out media presented bullshit as his argument..........Of course obscene cruelty goes on but not on the scale the media presents as in hunting most genuine dogmen care for their animals 100 times better than most fucking pet owners.It comes across that I'm defending dogfighting , Im not but I'm just trying to point out that so many people just take what the papers & newreels say as gospel , I mean FIST OF FURY with his comments of "Dog fights are forced upon the participants. There is no free choice. In addition, these dogs are trained to become more vicious by being beaten and generally abused" - It just shows total ignorance to what really goes on , As a man who hunts his dogs I can verify that an animal will not work better for you if you beat & abuse it.....!!!!!!!!........Lets look at the crowds for a moment , Fightfans at ringside are there to see there hero beat the fuck out of there opponent , FACT , They want to see their hero win ,FACT , They want to see blood & knockdowns , FACT - What would happen if on the night of a fight thier man pulled out because he didnt "fancy it" , I'll tell you there would be fucking uproar & slatings by the media , A man you has nothing in his life except his skill with his hands in the ring is by & large forced into that ring (See some of Eubanks comments) - The cold hard question is that if fighters were forced into match ups would fight fans stop watching.............????............I think not as its human nature to enjoy sporting combat & has been since the beginning of time , I think it just scares some fightfans when the obvious similarities between dogfighting & boxing are made - Its OK for you to watch a man die in the ring because , Hey..!! its his choice , but you'll still be fucking cheering as the punches land & he hits the canvas but Damn those sick fuckers who watch 2 dogs at it , thats just cruel................................Pure contradiction my friend...

[bigG]

There is no contradiction whatsoever. I love boxing and despise dog fighting.

In boxing, it's everyone's FREE CHOICE to participate in it. It is a sport that is conducted under controlled conditions with protective gear and a referee. It isn't a free-for-all street fight.

Dog fights are forced upon the participants. There is no free choice. In addition, these dogs are trained to become more vicious by being beaten and generally abused. Boxers aren't, unless they want it that way.
Oh yeah...boxers don't beat up defenceless, timid men in sparring sessions either. Fighting dogs are often trained to fight by using helpless animals as bait, which are torn to shreds.

Lastly, old boxers can retire, some to a life of anonymity and others to a life where they enjoy the adulation of millions of fans. In either case, they are usually comfortable in retirement.

Now tell me, what happens to old fighting dogs?

Dog fighting goes way deeper than the actual fighting.

some dog fights are like this...for sure...genuine dog fighters look after their dogs and abide by rules and a code of practice...im like most people, i cant stand the thought of dog fighting in any way, shape or form, but there are huge differences between traditional dog fighting afficionados and the kind of people who starve and beat their dogs and physically and mentally abuse them for their own pleasure......a huge difference too, if you like, between genuine boxing fans and the kind of fan who goes to a warehouse to watch two guys compete in a gouging, butting and punching contest that can end in one participant broken and blinded......there are parallels however unpleasant you mind find them....

[bill poster]

I have a Staffordshire (rescue dog )which is very well natured and I cannot understand people who treat animals badly. It can result in people getting badly injured/killed and gives the breed a bad rep. Animals lives should be worth as much as a humans IMO, we are the ones destroying the planet..Rant over

[bigG]

i agree....i have a labrador, a staffy/pit cross and a lab/rotty cross and if anyone or anything hurt any of my dogs id most probably end up inside....i find the thought of dog fighting nauseating, but do know there is a huge difference between genuine participants and the kind of underground back yard practices engaged in by some total animals.......just as there is 'twixt genuine fight fans and the kind who just wanna see someone hurt in a blood and guts spectacle....

[fists of fury]

An old fighting dog that has proved itself will be kept & used for stud its blood , like that of a racehorse is prized & it will live out its life sowing its seed basically...........
From your post I see yet another poster who just cant face the truth of things & is spewing out media presented bullshit as his argument..........Of course obscene cruelty goes on but not on the scale the media presents as in hunting most genuine dogmen care for their animals 100 times better than most fucking pet owners.

So, a guy who engages his dogs in dog fighting in a "genuine dog man"?
And what does "dog man" mean actually?
The fact that you hunt your dogs doesn't mean diddly shit to me. I've been around dogs, great and small, my entire life. Doing what you do makes you no more informed about dogs than any other pet owner.


I mean FIST OF FURY with his comments of "Dog fights are forced upon the participants. There is no free choice. In addition, these dogs are trained to become more vicious by being beaten and generally abused" - It just shows total ignorance to what really goes on , As a man who hunts his dogs I can verify that an animal will not work better for you if you beat & abuse it.....!!!!!!!!..........

Well, enlighten me then, since you seem to be much more clued up on dog fighting. What really goes on?
They're not beaten? They're not trained to fight? They don't alllow them to hone their skills on other animals? They're not forced to do so? Why is it illegal in the first place? Why do places like the SPCA try to lock it down?
My bad...it's all sunshine and roses after all. :good

I'm going to give you a scenario - you fill in the blanks:

A dog gets badly injured in a dog fight. Let's say his leg gets broken somehow, and the dog badly mauled. It's owner does the following................................

You say it's contradictory to watch boxing and dog fighting. Why?

The fact is the small matter of choice makes a huge difference. There is the visceral side to boxing and yeah, who doesn't love it, but the fact that it's condoned by the participants makes all the difference.

If a boxer wants to gets his nose squashed, his brains scrambled and his jaw broken that's his choice. Since he's okay with that, then I am too.

If a two men were shoved into a ring by a group of people against their will, I wouldn't watch it. I hate any enforced violence, or where people or animals are coerced to fight.

[bill poster]

Fighting is an emotion found in humans and animals- but i do find cage fighting pretty sick

[bigG]

So, a guy who engages his dogs in dog fighting in a "genuine dog man"?
And what does "dog man" mean actually?
The fact that you hunt your dogs doesn't mean diddly shit to me. I've been around dogs, great and small, my entire life. Doing what you do makes you no more informed about dogs than any other pet owner.



Well, enlighten me then, since you seem to be much more clued up on dog fighting. What really goes on?
They're not beaten? They're not trained to fight? They don't alllow them to hone their skills on other animals? They're not forced to do so? Why is it illegal in the first place? Why do places like the SPCA try to lock it down?
My bad...it's all sunshine and roses after all. :good

I'm going to give you a scenario - you fill in the blanks:

A dog gets badly injured in a dog fight. Let's say his leg gets broken somehow, and the dog badly mauled. It's owner does the following................................

You say it's contradictory to watch boxing and dog fighting. Why?

The fact is the small matter of choice makes a huge difference. There is the visceral side to boxing and yeah, who doesn't love it, but the fact that it's condoned by the participants makes all the difference.

If a boxer wants to gets his nose squashed, his brains scrambled and his jaw broken that's his choice. Since he's okay with that, then I am too.

If a two men were shoved into a ring by a group of people against their will, I wouldn't watch it. I hate any enforced violence, or where people or animals are coerced to fight.

what your describing is the kind of dog fighting and dog fighting fans who deserve to be jailed and should never under any circumstances be allowed to keep animals..these people do exist..the kind of dogfights they particiapate in or watch are, as you rightly point out, between borderline emaciated dogs with mentalitys that are so scarred they are hair trigger sensitive and have two primeval instincts left, fight or flight.......so they fight.......i find ALL dog fighting abhorrent, it sickens me to the pit of my stomach...but conversley, real dog fighting people do care for their dogs and find the people described above to be as morally reprehensible as you and i do..perhaps the old guard of 'respectable' dog fighters, if it can be described as thus, are dying out, and this new breed of inhuman callous imbecile is in the ascendancy, but as much as the whole idea personally sickens me, i can at least grasp the concept that even such a horrendous 'sport' has two sides....and, as a proponent of mma, i cant see how cage fighting should sicken anyone...unlicensed warehouse cage fighting sure, just as unlicensed bare knuckle or gloved boxing is a sickener, but real mma under proper nevada state athletic comission rules is as relevant and well supervised as any martial art...

[Taffyy]

Big G pretty much summed it up........
The problem is Fists you are skirting around the question & similarities between dogfighting & boxing I'm afraid.
CONDONED blood & guts is OK but dogfighting is'nt !!!!!!!!!!!!
Although personally dogfighting isnt for me I wouldnt judge the true "oldguard" as BigG put it for pursuing their chosen sport , As I said not for me but a dog that is well looked after & treated well & then honed to its physical peak for matching is the owners buisness , Pricks who mistreat & force out of shape animals together are a different ball game..............My question is that as a spectator WHY do you watch boxing.........??????.........I'll tell you to see someone hurt his opponent into submission or to knock them out , If someone dies as a result or suffers brain damage..........fine because its condoned !!!!!!!!!!!............Stop being a fucking hypocrite man...........

[Ethan Trims]

You're right - it is a contradiction. I don't have so much a problem with hunting, as long as you're eating the quarry but dog fighting is mentally limited animals being turned on each other.

Either way: it's fine to condemn Mclellan for what he apparently did, but not to wish mental damage on the man.

The key word is wish. Any person can wish, hope, or hold ill will as they please. You can disagree with it, but you cant tell me what to do especially when the law says I can.

If anything, you can view what Don King did to Mclellan as the same as what Mclellan allegedly did to dogs. Only what Don king did was worse because it was a human.

No-one's wishing brain damage on King though...

If Mcclellan agreed to fight with knowledge that he had a brain clot, then its his own fault. He made the choice, and now hes living with it. Dont blame King its not like he tied him up and forced into the ring.:good

[bill poster]

How aware was GMan about his condition?? Surely he would have realised that a clot was causing the probs and pulled out earlier in the fight. It doesnt add up

[Sonny's jab]

Dog fighting doesn't look too cool to me :

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[MacManJr.]

Wow this thread is still going!

[Sonny's jab]

The distinctions between dog fighting and boxing are VAST.
People say we watch boxing for brutality, yep, that's true.

But i would feel sick watching two slaves fighting to the death, or until seriously maimed, against their will. That would be the human equivalent of dog fighting, slaves in chains, or prisoners in a Nazi death camp. A far cry from pro boxing.

Sure, if two free and adult-minded men are willing to fight with axes or knives or bare-handed to the death, assumedly for great financial reward, then that could pass as a "sport" and you could draw moral similarities to boxing. But being WILLING and FREE are the deciding factors, obviously.

[bigG]

..i dont think anyone on here is saying its cool or a good thing in any way shape or form bro, some of us have just been pointing out that some dogfights are conducted under nationally accepted rules and the participants actually love and care for their animals, a minority nowdays though it seems, and that there is a difference between this and the calous acts of people involved in the even shadier side of things, like it seems, mclelland may have been.....what these people do is tantamount to 'dog baiting'...like starving two humans and encouraging them to fight to the death, with life and further maltreatment as the only prize and, rather ironically, death and peace for the loser....can we all just agree that dog fighting isnt really acceptable in any way shape or form in todays 'civilised' (and i use that word advisedly) society, but also that all dog fighters arent neccessarrilly the kind of brain dead moron that the g man is, rightly or wrongly, is described as having been before he became a brain dead ex fighter.....and i dont mean that to sound as calllous as it does, but hey, thems the breaks....

[Jersey Joe]

Is it just me or did Benn throw a lot of illegal punches in that fight?