You're managing any ATG in an imagined ATG stacked division...

[McGrain]

Pick a fighter then describe who you would duck as champion and why?

So for example, I'm managin Sonny Liston in a division stacked with the 25 greatest heavies of all time. I would duck -


Gene Tunney - an elusive cruiserweight with fast slashing punches and a great sense of generalship and timing. No thanks.

Muhammad Ali - the nightmare style for Sonny.


I would do anything to stay away from these guys. And the press can't say shit because our 2010 schedule looks like this:

Febuary - Larry Holmes

August - Joe Louis

December - Lennox Lewis


So we're not exactly looking at soft touches...

[rusty nails]

if i had marciano i wouldnt let him be in the same postcode as foreman..
i wouldnt let holmes anywhere near dempsey either..

[stonerose]

Roy Jones Jnr at MW ...


Avoid Marvin Hagler and Gerald Mclellan . I think that these two's furious assaults could unsettle Roy and see him retreat into a defensive shell . Hagler winning a wide points decision and i really do think that if he would have met the mighty G-Man he could be up against his nemesis .Fully aware that Mclellan isn't regarded as an all time great but i'm in the minority of thinking he was on his way .

No one could complain much cos i've lined up..

January - Sugar Ray Leonard ( similar fighter but Roy has the size and power advantages )

June - Roberto Duran ( MW was never his best weight , Roy outboxes him )

Dec - Bernard Hopkins ( Even a prime Hopkins would struggle with Roy's speed )

[Holmes' Jab]

[QUOTE]if i had marciano i wouldnt let him be in the same postcode as foreman..


I agree.


i wouldnt let holmes anywhere near dempsey either


Larry handles him easier than some think. Wide-ish UD. :good

[Holmes' Jab]

I think Liston would be the one I woundn't fancy at all, unless I happened to train Ali. :yep

[Sweet Pea]

I'd favor Jones to beat McClellan easily.

[stonerose]

I'd favor Jones to beat McClellan easily.



most people would i know. i'm of a different opinion myself .i reckon mclellan would have been a nightmare for him.

[WhataRock]

most people would i know. i'm of a different opinion myself .i reckon mclellan would have been a nightmare for him.


McClellan was an impressive figure..He had a mean style and a mean way about him. I can see why people talk about him the way they do.

I have heard others say he could beat many of the best middleweights ever but I do often wonder why.

Just wondering why you think he would be a nightmare for Roy and what fights are you basing that on?

I cant really see it to be honest...He beat an overrated and more or less finished Mugabi...The way he dispatched with Jackson was impressive but you could argue Julian was on the way out and his chin was always a liability of his.
Neither these guys are comparable to Jones in style or ability.

Would you pick Gerald over guys like Monzon, Hagler, Robinson, Tiger, Benvenuti, Barkley? Just curious to know...he has always struck me an interesting case McClellan..he was a very good fighter but a lot of people think he was so much more then that for reasons I cant see.

[stonerose]

McClellan was an impressive figure..He had a mean style and a mean way about him. I can see why people talk about him the way they do.

I have heard others say he could beat many of the best middleweights ever but I do often wonder why.

Just wondering why you think he would be a nightmare for Roy and what fights are you basing that on?

I cant really see it to be honest...He beat an overrated and more or less finished Mugabi...The way he dispatched with Jackson was impressive but you could argue Julian was on the way out and his chin was always a liability of his.
Neither these guys are comparable to Jones in style or ability.

Would you pick Gerald over guys like Monzon, Hagler, Robinson, Tiger, Benvenuti, Barkley? Just curious to know...he has always struck me an interesting case McClellan..he was a very good fighter but a lot of people think he was so much more then that for reasons I cant see.


I don't think we saw the best of mclellan for a start, he was cut down before he had a chance to establish himself at a weight his body would fit into more. The older guys you mention , obviously hagler & robinson would probably have too much for him, barkley i don't know what the fuss is about and i have to admit to not knowing much, or seeing much footage of, including monzon, unforgiveably.
as far as a match up with jones goes, is there a fighter he fought in his prime of otherwise with so much raw power and aggression as a mclellan or hagler ? i don't think so . his best wins are against toney and hopkins who are both much more on the counter puncher side, who jones, being a very clever fighter could work out. would he have cracked under a relentless assault against the likes of hagler who would have stalked him round the ring or mclellan with his smash and grab ruthless style.
i understand why i could get ridiculed for giving gerald a chance against jones but i think that he would have become a very special fighter and a fight against jones would have been very close.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Would you pick Gerald over guys like Monzon, Hagler, Robinson, Tiger, Benvenuti, Barkley?

One of those names clearly doesn't belong there.

[WhataRock]

One of those names clearly doesn't belong there.


Yeah I know that but I thought I would start at the best and work downwards in H2H ability (in my opinion anyway) just to see how stonerose thought he would go..Big leap at the end I know..I actually just chucked Iran in there because I was rushing the post.

[stonerose]

Name a fighter Jones has fought who is comparable in terms of style and aggression to Gerald Mclellan ?

[WhataRock]

I don't think we saw the best of mclellan for a start, he was cut down before he had a chance to establish himself at a weight his body would fit into more. The older guys you mention , obviously hagler & robinson would probably have too much for him, barkley i don't know what the fuss is about and i have to admit to not knowing much, or seeing much footage of, including monzon, unforgiveably.
as far as a match up with jones goes, is there a fighter he fought in his prime of otherwise with so much raw power and aggression as a mclellan or hagler ? i don't think so . his best wins are against toney and hopkins who are both much more on the counter puncher side, who jones, being a very clever fighter could work out. would he have cracked under a relentless assault against the likes of hagler who would have stalked him round the ring or mclellan with his smash and grab ruthless style.
i understand why i could get ridiculed for giving gerald a chance against jones but i think that he would have become a very special fighter and a fight against jones would have been very close.

Yeah fair enough...I just see it more the other way Gerald never fought a guy like Roy..I think his middleweight opposition complemented his style, Roy would not.

[stonerose]

Yeah fair enough...I just see it more the other way Gerald never fought a guy like Roy..I think his middleweight opposition complemented his style, Roy would not.


True. whatever peoples view on how easy it would have been for Roy everyone would have to agree it would have been some fight .

so are people saying a career in boxing management is not a smart move for me ?

[WhataRock]

Name a fighter Jones has fought who is comparable in terms of style and aggression to Gerald Mclellan ?

Um..maybe someone like Sosa..Even the version of Hopkins that Jones fought in terms of physical size and his more aggressive approach back then could have some comparisons..thats a bit of a stretch though.

[stonerose]

what about hagler then ?
and my controversial g-man avoidance seems to be diverting people from the real purpose of the thread, which is a good'un. lets see some more.

[Sweet Pea]

McClellan was on the steady decline post-Steward. He was already past his prime and I seriously doubt he'd have been any dominant or even consistently top level fixture had he continued, probably would've floundered out a few years later to be honest. Quite overrated, especially from a technical standpoint, and made for counter punchers like Jones, Hopkins, and Toney stylistically. Particularly quick, powerful movers like Jones. A very slim puncher's chance would be all he'd have stood IMO.

[stonerose]

I don't think he was on the decline, it hurt him when Manny went but this doesn't mean he wouldn't have got better had he stuck with Manny or got a better trainer than that fella in the hat.
Dunno how a guy on the decline could still put up such a great ( albeit losing )performance as he did against Benn. This is generally considered one of the best fights of modern times, i reckon it is THE best fight of the last 20 years myself and think it would be considered as such if it wasn't for the tragic ending .

[McGrain]

McClellan was on the steady decline post-Steward. He was already past his prime and I seriously doubt he'd have been any dominant or even consistently top level fixture had he continued, probably would've floundered out a few years later to be honest. Quite overrated, especially from a technical standpoint, and made for counter punchers like Jones, Hopkins, and Toney stylistically. Particularly quick, powerful movers like Jones. A very slim puncher's chance would be all he'd have stood IMO.


I think this is a slight mis-read on your part. What is it about a murderous punching aggressive attacking fighter with a very good chin that you think would be easy for Jones? I think it's just the type of fighter to make things awkward for the peak version, make him uncomfortable. I agree that Jones's counterpunching style would win the day, but you don't see some alarming moments early doors?



Anyway, Harry Greb


I'm avoiding

Dick Tiger - I may have overestimated his chances in the past, but I still think that Greb is to aggressive to enjoy fighting Dick Tiger

Bernard Hopkins - Harry would ship to many hard shots on the way in for me to be comfortable with this one.


But nobody can compain -

Feb - Holman Williams
March - Mickey Walker
Nov - James Toney

[stonerose]

Cheers McGrain, someone who sees my point of view . Phew .

[stonerose]

Lennox Lewis

Avoid ....


Ali - Too quick and awkward for Lennox, i think he'd make him look a bit silly and lumbering.

Peak Mike Tyson - I think we'd see a simlar result as what happened against Mccall , a knockout of Lewis, whatever condition he came to the ring in. Mobile, in your face and throwing fast and hard combinations would be too much for Lewis i reckon


But......

George Foreman ( slower version of Lennox i reckon )
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano

[My dinner with Conteh]

If I was Lennox I would avoid Holmes. A better jab, tall and with an excellent chin.

[Holmes' Jab]

Lewis - Tyson is near enough 50/50, but I 'd go for Lewis if push came to shove.

[stonerose]

Yeah , Holmes v Lewis would be a brilliant fight between two giants .

[My dinner with Conteh]

Anyway, Harry Greb


I'm avoiding

Dick Tiger - I may have overestimated his chances in the past, but I still think that Greb is to aggressive to enjoy fighting Dick Tiger


Great choice. Fullmer also? Definitely an unnecessary risk fight, especially seeing as though he even turned boxer in the second Tiger fight, to Dick's bemusement, and was by every account unlucky not to receive the duke.

[Holmes' Jab]

I actually think Lewis matches up well enough against 70's Ali. Liston would be a tricky one for him, potentially Walcott too (providing he survives the early skirmishes).

[McGrain]

Great choice. Fullmer also? Definitely an unnecessary risk fight, especially seeing as though he even turned boxer in the second Tiger fight, to Dick's bemusement, and was by every account unlucky not to receive the duke.

It made Tiger livid when fighters turned boxer agains him. I know all fighters bitch about decisions they lose, but I firmly believe that Tiger was disgusted when boys beat him by "running away".

I'd be less worried about Fullmer than Tiger, but yeah, another one that might not be on the menu. Tiger was such a beast at the weight, crazy discipline that kept him at 160 for so long. Was it the Downes fight where he had to rip off four pounds at the weigh in?

[Holmes' Jab]

If I was Lennox I would avoid Holmes. A better jab, tall and with an excellent chin.


To be fair this would be very close. Lewis' power and the fact he's a finer blend between a boxer and puncher would stand him in good stead. I can't see Larry being stopped, though even with Lewis' power and Larry won't stop Lennox I don't think.


Holmes close UD, only a few rounds in it.

[Holmes' Jab]

How about Hagler for Greb?

[My dinner with Conteh]

It made Tiger livid when fighters turned boxer agains him. I know all fighters bitch about decisions they lose, but I firmly believe that Tiger was disgusted when boys beat him by "running away".?


Yes, but then Dick decided it was a pretty good option vs Torres at 175. :D

I'd be less worried about Fullmer than Tiger, but yeah, another one that might not be on the menu.

Who wouldn't? Any middleweight brawler is best avoiding Tiger like he had leprosy. :cool:


Tiger was such a beast at the weight, crazy discipline that kept him at 160 for so long. Was it the Downes fight where he had to rip off four pounds at the weigh in?

Not sure mate. I don't think it was the Downes fight though.

[My dinner with Conteh]

How about Hagler for Greb?


I think Hagler is just ultimately avoidable for everyone given the option. :yep

[stonerose]

Floyd Maywether Jnr

Avoid ......

Duran - Would hunt Floyd down and swat him aside like a troublesome fly at the lower weights .

Hearns - At WW this would pretty much be a matter of time before one of Hearns's bombs tests Floyds chin like its never been tested. With disastrous results.

But..........

Chavez
Tszyu
Buchanan

[stonerose]

Done that over a couple of weights sorry .

[McGrain]

Yes, but then Dick decided it was a pretty good option vs Torres at 175. :D

That is some pair. Those wins are underated, especially given Tiger's dimensions (short and thick).

Not sure mate. I don't think it was the Downes fight though.

It's in the book, I remember the story well (though not which fight it was). Tiger just ripped his clothes of and starting calasthenics right their in the weigh in room :lol: Press, all looking at each other and that.

That book is due a re-read, when I hit the story i'll maybe throw something up.

[McGrain]

How about Hagler for Greb?


"There will be blood tonight."

[Holmes' Jab]

I think Hagler is just ultimately avoidable for everyone given the option. :yep


Yeah.

I think Spinks vs Greb would be very interesting. :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

That is some pair. Those wins are underated, especially given Tiger's dimensions (short and thick).



It's in the book, I remember the story well (though not which fight it was). Tiger just ripped his clothes of and starting calasthenics right their in the weigh in room :lol: Press, all looking at each other and that.

That book is due a re-read, when I hit the story i'll maybe throw something up.

Very underrated, especially as Torres was mooted as Ali's next opponent (or at the very least a future one). A rumour which he himself started. :D

[McGrain]

I think Spinks vs Greb would be very interesting. :good


Spinks would fucking ruin Greb.

[Holmes' Jab]

Spinks would fucking ruin Greb.


I'd favour Spinks, but don't see it being a mismatch.

[McGrain]

I'd favour Spinks, but don't see it being a mismatch.


Spinks is a 6'3 master boxer with a 76" reach.

Greb is 5'8 with a 71" reach, is lighter and a boxing-swarmer.

The styles, the physicality all favour Greb. Lord knows he has a trick or two (or two dozen) but he doesn't have a bag deep enough to overcome these disadvantages. I think a peak Spinks busts him up worse than Tunney did.