Chavez vs. Duran peak/peak at 135.

[Amsterdam]

In their physical primes, at this weight class. If this isn't one of the best match ups ever, then I don't know what is.

I'm going with Duran by decision, but it would be a great scrap!:good

[brooklyn1550]

Duran by decision. Chavez was a pressure fighter purely, and was very orthodox and if facing the right fighter(that being Duran) able to be figured out. Duran was craftier and even better on the inside than Chavez, with a chin pretty close as well, and Chavez wouldn't be able to wear Duran down if he was getting beaten on the inside.

Also, Duran was better on the outside as well. He was simply too versatile for Chavez. I do think that this would become a brawl to see had more machismo though, as that was how Duran was, and that was all Chavez knew how to be.

That sums it up perfectly right there

:good Duran UD

[brooklyn1550]

Wrong. I know Duran lost in his prime and QUIT in his prime. Let me know when you find out when Chavez quit or lost in his prime.

He quit against Ray Leonard - is Chavez going to dance around the ring like Leonard did?

[robert ungurean]

Two favorites.
Duran by UD. No doubt about it.

[Manassa]

Watch Chavez against Edwin Rosario.

Then watch Duran against Carlos Palomino.

You will see a world of difference in versatility, variety and intelligence. Chavez was great, but Duran was a genius, and it's as simple as that. This matchup is akin to pitting Mickey Walker against Ray Robinson.

Not to mention, Duran likely matched Chavez (at least) for strength, durability, punching power and stamina.

[Robbi]

Duran would have beaten Chavez. Better defense, better long range boxing ability, and maybe even better inside. Duran also got off much more freely with his punches, with Chavez being more measured and patient.

Chavez was a hell of a fighter, but not quite as good as Duran.

[Robbi]

Watch Chavez against Edwin Rosario.

Then watch Duran against Carlos Palomino.

You will see a world of difference in versatility, variety and intelligence. Chavez was great, but Duran was a genius, and it's as simple as that. This matchup is akin to pitting Mickey Walker against Ray Robinson.

Not to mention, Duran likely matched Chavez (at least) for strength, durability, punching power and stamina.

Maybe a better way to awnser the posters question more accurately. Watch Chavez v Rosario, and Duran v De Jesus III, as both were contested at lightweight. That was probably a better performance by Duran than his points with over Palamino at 147lbs. Duran's most complete showing as a lightweight, with a devastating KO to put the icing on the cake.

Duran during his late lightweight days became a brilliant defensive fighter. And his defense served him well as he moved through the weights.

[Robbi]

OMG, here comes the rain of excuses. Open up the umbrellas, folks.

If Duran got frustrated, too bad. It's his fault, not Leonard's. If he was unmotivated and lazy that is his fault.

I have yet to see how Duran was more versatile, craftier, and more skilled than Chavez. Naturally bigger? Yes. Better puncher? Yes. Did he have more head movement (defense) or a better beard than Chavez? I don't think so. Did he have better stamina? I don't know. Maybe about the same. Chavez was a smart pressure fighter. He just didn't go in there swinging for the fences hoping to land one. In his prime, he cut off the ring better than anyone I have seen.

I'm not going to analyze all his fights, but just to name a few:

In the Rosario fight he showed his ring smarts by fighting aggresive and smothering Rosario's punches.

Against Jose Luis Ramirez, he showed he could box.

Against Mayweather I & II, he should he could cut the ring off and make the other guy fight his fight.

Against Taylor he showed he could get outlanded, but never wilted nor got discouraged. He showed he was not only physically tough, but mentally tough as well.

Chavez in his prime never was lazy, unmotivated, or whatever else Duran was in his prime.

Bottom line is you think Duran would win, and I think Chavez would win. Too bad we will never find out. :hey

Duran had better head and upperbody movement than Chavez. Surprised you don't think so. I think your just telling lies ain't you?. Duran's ability to slip punches, and take the sting out of partially landed blows was as good as any fighter in history, especially for being so aggressively minded.

[Manassa]

Chavez was a magnificent fighter - just look at his record. Some of his performances are excellent.

Chavez had an excellent defence for a pressure fighter - watch him duck punches, slip them and block shots with a tight guard. He hit hard as well with short, crisp punches, and he'd be on you all night if he felt like it.

But he wasn't as good as Duran.

The difference was a thing some like to call 'genius' - it's both a mental and physical quality that is possessed by very few fighters and it only comes along once in a blue moon. Duran had it.

Watch Duran against Carlos Palomino, arguably his best performance. Watch it carefully; look at Duran's smooth, gliding movement. He flows brilliantly and dazzles Palomino with his handspeed and unorthodox, innovative but fundamentally brilliant moves. While Chavez would stalk Edwin Rosario, back him up against the ropes and trade with him, Duran would taunt Palomino with feinting hands and feet, make him duck and uppercut him in the ribs; then he might skip back, let Palomino think he's in the clear then whack him with a one-two.

Chavez didn't have those rapid fire reflexes like Duran. He couldn't pull off a move like the sixth round knockdown on Palomino, where Duran whipped in a right hand out of nowhere and was ready to react and counter. Chavez was a fighter who was content to read from the textbook, but in turn it made his moves too tidy and clean. Compare him to Duran on the inside, for example; Chavez is ducking, slipping, hooking hard and defending himself nicely. But it's all too conventional, too neat and trim - there was nothing confusing about it. Duran, on the other hand, would tie up his opponent but still somehow be hitting him with uppercuts. He'd be loose and flexible like a piece of elastic, his head moving with punches as though he had an in-built radar. Duran was untidy on the inside but devilishly effective, and I think he'd find Chavez predictable and time him to perfection - just like he did with Palomino.

I tell you what 'fight' may sum this one up... Achilles versus Hector in the film Troy. In terms of basic physicalities; strength, speed, stamina, they were probably equal. But Achilles possessed that extra attribute, that genius. He was a class above. You saw his snake-like movement and inventive maneuvers, he confused Hector and brought a whole new method to the table which the latter had never seen before. Though merely a fantasy fight, the factors within that battle reflect what can happen in real life.

[Stonehands89]

Chavez was a magnificent fighter - just look at his record. Some of his performances are excellent.

Chavez had an excellent defence for a pressure fighter - watch him duck punches, slip them and block shots with a tight guard. He hit hard as well with short, crisp punches, and he'd be on you all night if he felt like it.

But he wasn't as good as Duran.

The difference was a thing some like to call 'genius' - it's both a mental and physical quality that is possessed by very few fighters and it only comes along once in a blue moon. Duran had it.

Watch Duran against Carlos Palomino, arguably his best performance. Watch it carefully; look at Duran's smooth, gliding movement. He flows brilliantly and dazzles Palomino with his handspeed and unorthodox, innovative but fundamentally brilliant moves. While Chavez would stalk Edwin Rosario, back him up against the ropes and trade with him, Duran would taunt Palomino with feinting hands and feet, make him duck and uppercut him in the ribs; then he might skip back, let Palomino think he's in the clear then whack him with a one-two.

Chavez didn't have those rapid fire reflexes like Duran. He couldn't pull off a move like the sixth round knockdown on Palomino, where Duran whipped in a right hand out of nowhere and was ready to react and counter. Chavez was a fighter who was content to read from the textbook, but in turn it made his moves too tidy and clean. Compare him to Duran on the inside, for example; Chavez is ducking, slipping, hooking hard and defending himself nicely. But it's all too conventional, too neat and trim - there was nothing confusing about it. Duran, on the other hand, would tie up his opponent but still somehow be hitting him with uppercuts. He'd be loose and flexible like a piece of elastic, his head moving with punches as though he had an in-built radar. Duran was untidy on the inside but devilishly effective, and I think he'd find Chavez predictable and time him to perfection - just like he did with Palomino.

I tell you what 'fight' may sum this one up... Achilles versus Hector in the film Troy. In terms of basic physicalities; strength, speed, stamina, they were probably equal. But Achilles possessed that extra attribute, that genius. He was a class above. You saw his snake-like movement and inventive manouvers, he confused Hector and brought a whole new method to the table which the latter had never seen before. Though merely a fantasy fight, the factors within that battle reflect what can happen in real life.

Excellent post, Manassa.

[Manassa]

Excellent post, Manassa.

Thank you. I can't understand why anyone would pick Chavez over Duran - are these the same people who choose Hamed over Pep or Walker over Robinson?

[Manassa]

I did see Duran vs Palomino, and again not much difference. Don't see the difference in versatility, variety, and intelligence. Tell me something specific that Duran does better than Chavez, but don't be so generic and just say he was better in this and that. Point them out. Anyhow, your opinion is no better than mine. Chavez still wins.

Read my other post, I explained more specifically there.

[Luigi1985]

Chavez was probably not as fast on his feet as Duran but he was consistent, methodical, had a great chin for when he did commit an error and an incredible left hook to the body. They were both strong punchers but Chavez attacked the body a lot more and I think in the end that would win him the fight with a late round knockout.


I respect your pick but I really can´t see JCC beating Duran by KO...


do you think the bodyshots would make Duran tired or how do you meant it?

[Manassa]

but he was consistent, methodical

And that's exactly what would lose him the fight. Compared to Duran, Chavez was a robot.

By the way, people picking Chavez by knockout have some major explaining to do. On what basis? This particular poster pointed out body shots; when did body shots ever bother Duran?

[Manassa]

Body shots hurt everyone... Now it is document that CHavez's cranium is thicker than a normal persons, that is partially why he had such an iron chin, you do agree with me that Chavez delve to the body more though right? As the fight continues both will still be great boxer but one will be more tired and those (consistent and methodical) body shots will take effect no matter what you think.

Chavez worked the body more, yes, but that doesn't mean he beats Duran, who took harder punches than Chavez'. Duran blocked body shots very well actually. You may be forgetting that Duran is probably the bigger man in this fight and the harder hitter - as well as the more skilled and intelligent.

[Manassa]

Chavez didn't stalk Rosario he cut the ring off. Too bad you couldn't see that because not only did I see it, but the HBO announcers did too as well (Leonard, Merchant, and the other bozo). Besides Chavez wanted to punish Rosario for all the shit Rosario talked before the fight. He pressured smartly with excellent defense thrown in.

"He flows brilliantly and dazzles Palomino with his handspeed and unorthodox, innovative but fundamentally brilliant moves." :rofl

If you call that fundamentally brilliant moves, wow. I didn't know keeping your left-hand down in a fight would be categorized as fundamental. I didn't know a herky jerky move qualified as fundamentally sound defensive moves. Unorthodox? Yes.

Chavez didn't have rapid fire reflexes? Your barking up the wrong tree here. Then how do you explain that right hook that nearly parked Ramirez on his ass? It was a pinpoint shot to the chin. Let me guess? It was a lucky shot, right? Or how about those shots that knocked down Mayweather in their first fight? Chavez must have closed and eyes and prayed on those, huh? You want some infighting? Try watching Chavez vs Castillo. Try watching some Chavez' fights before you try and bring those arguments here.

Roberto Duran was a great fighter. So was Chavez. You see things in Duran that make you believe he would have beat Chavez and it's vice versa with me. However, Chavez has that one edge in my book that Duran will never have. Chavez never lost or quit (whether it be of frustration or pain) in his prime. He never had to show his full arsenal everytime out because what worked for him got him to be 89-0-1, which Duran didn't do.

Nice try though. We could play these scenarios out all year and still have differences and opinions on who would have won. But you can pretend all you want that Duran would beat Chavez. I am comfortable in my decision based on seeing both these fighters. :good

Chavez didn't stalk Rosario he cut the ring off. Too bad you couldn't see that because not only did I see it, but the HBO announcers did too as well (Leonard, Merchant, and the other bozo). Besides Chavez wanted to punish Rosario for all the shit Rosario talked before the fight. He pressured smartly with excellent defense thrown in.

Just because I happened to use the word 'stalk', you made all this effort? I saw the fight, I know what happened. Stop being so trivial.

"He flows brilliantly and dazzles Palomino with his handspeed and unorthodox, innovative but fundamentally brilliant moves." :rofl

If you call that fundamentally brilliant moves, wow. I didn't know keeping your left-hand down in a fight would be categorized as fundamental. I didn't know a herky jerky move qualified as fundamentally sound defensive moves. Unorthodox? Yes.

Don't give me the emoticons. Duran combined fundamentals with his own moves; he used textbook footwork and head movement but used his hands in an unorthodox way; feinting, guiding, motioning. Then punching. How is my classification important anyway - fact is, Duran was extremely effective, and that's all you need to know.

Chavez didn't have rapid fire reflexes? Your barking up the wrong tree here. Then how do you explain that right hook that nearly parked Ramirez on his ass? It was a pinpoint shot to the chin. Let me guess? It was a lucky shot, right? Or how about those shots that knocked down Mayweather in their first fight? Chavez must have closed and eyes and prayed on those, huh? You want some infighting? Try watching Chavez vs Castillo. Try watching some Chavez' fights before you try and bring those arguments here.

Chavez had reflexes. Everyone who isn't confined to a wheelchair or a coffin has reflexes. Chavez' were pretty good - Duran's were better. Did you see Chavez moulding himself to the shape of his opponent's attacks like Duran did? Defensively, Chavez was very good, but Duran was excellent. He pulled off the more spectacular and more importantly, effective moves. Reckon Chavez could evade nine Ray Leonard punches in a row with his hands down? Duran did. He was just showing off there. He was that good.

Roberto Duran was a great fighter. So was Chavez. You see things in Duran that make you believe he would have beat Chavez and it's vice versa with me. However, Chavez has that one edge in my book that Duran will never have. Chavez never lost or quit (whether it be of frustration or pain) in his prime. He never had to show his full arsenal everytime out because what worked for him got him to be 89-0-1, which Duran didn't do.

Pretty vacant. Your argument so far has been unconvincing at best; you haven't broken down styles or anything. Specify more.

P.S. - records are not everything.

Nice try though. We could play these scenarios out all year and still have differences and opinions on who would have won. But you can pretend all you want that Duran would beat Chavez. I am comfortable in my decision based on seeing both these fighters. :good

Then it's just your bad luck that the vast majority are against you. By the way, stop harping on about equal opinions then saying things like 'you can pretend all you want' - contradiction is not smiled upon around these here parts.

[Robbi]

Chavez was a magnificent fighter - just look at his record. Some of his performances are excellent.

Chavez had an excellent defence for a pressure fighter - watch him duck punches, slip them and block shots with a tight guard. He hit hard as well with short, crisp punches, and he'd be on you all night if he felt like it.

But he wasn't as good as Duran.

The difference was a thing some like to call 'genius' - it's both a mental and physical quality that is possessed by very few fighters and it only comes along once in a blue moon. Duran had it.

Watch Duran against Carlos Palomino, arguably his best performance. Watch it carefully; look at Duran's smooth, gliding movement. He flows brilliantly and dazzles Palomino with his handspeed and unorthodox, innovative but fundamentally brilliant moves. While Chavez would stalk Edwin Rosario, back him up against the ropes and trade with him, Duran would taunt Palomino with feinting hands and feet, make him duck and uppercut him in the ribs; then he might skip back, let Palomino think he's in the clear then whack him with a one-two.

Chavez didn't have those rapid fire reflexes like Duran. He couldn't pull off a move like the sixth round knockdown on Palomino, where Duran whipped in a right hand out of nowhere and was ready to react and counter. Chavez was a fighter who was content to read from the textbook, but in turn it made his moves too tidy and clean. Compare him to Duran on the inside, for example; Chavez is ducking, slipping, hooking hard and defending himself nicely. But it's all too conventional, too neat and trim - there was nothing confusing about it. Duran, on the other hand, would tie up his opponent but still somehow be hitting him with uppercuts. He'd be loose and flexible like a piece of elastic, his head moving with punches as though he had an in-built radar. Duran was untidy on the inside but devilishly effective, and I think he'd find Chavez predictable and time him to perfection - just like he did with Palomino.

I tell you what 'fight' may sum this one up... Achilles versus Hector in the film Troy. In terms of basic physicalities; strength, speed, stamina, they were probably equal. But Achilles possessed that extra attribute, that genius. He was a class above. You saw his snake-like movement and inventive maneuvers, he confused Hector and brought a whole new method to the table which the latter had never seen before. Though merely a fantasy fight, the factors within that battle reflect what can happen in real life.

Great performance from Duran against Palamino. His workrate and accuracy was second to none, and he slipped punches and got inside as well as he ever done. But not a fight where I'd make an argument for Duran's versatility in the ring in terms of pumping the jab from distance, and being calculated to go with his aggression. You could make a case for his versatility in how he varied his attacks while coming forward over Chavez against Rosario, but not versality of being a complete prize fighter.

Manassa. I agree on your point regarding Duran being smooth technically against Palamino. Very free with his punches, and busy throughout the fight. Chavez was a much more measured and accurate, but sometimes not a good thing. Chavez was more of thinker, with Duran simply letting everything flow at a higher pace.

[brooklyn1550]

Chavez was more of thinker, with Duran simply letting everything flow at a higher pace.

:good Chavez was more methodical and measured in his attack, whereas Duran was more of a killer

[Manassa]

Then it is your bad luck that I could care less if the whole world were against me. Those words just spoke volumes about you. You are more likely to join a group or follow people based on what they think because you are easily swayed and don't want to stand on your own two feet. Your arguments have no merit to me anymore. Take your argument to the "in-crowd" here on ESB. That way you can have fun pretending that Duran could beat Chavez IN YOUR OPINION. Have a nice day!!:yep

Really? I think many of the regular posters would disagree with you that I am a consensus follower. I am more the opposite. Difference is, I put across reasonable points.

Not my fault your argument is weak.

[Robbi]

Is that why he got starched by Hearns? Or he couldn't do the same against Leonard when he quit? Too bad his "more reflexive, evasive, better defensive moves didn't save him there. :patsch

Not too sure you can make a case for Chavez sharing a ring with anyone stylistically close to Hearns. Nobody Chavez fought came near Hearns when combining power with speed as a package. Taylor maybe a little quicker, but not anywhere near the same kind of power.

Since Duran v Hearns was at 154lbs, and Duran being naturally bigger than Chavez, lets put Chavez in a ring with Hearns at 147lbs. I'm pretty confident Chavez lasts around 2 rounds as well.

[JohnThomas1]

Mayweather x2 (Chavez' Hearns),


:lol:

[JohnThomas1]

It's one thing to take up an unpopular position (makes life interesting) but gtfo here with the Mayweather compares to Hearn's crap

:fire

[Robbi]

I'd assume you have to be a Chavez nuthugger to think otherwise.

Duran was quicker, more ferocious, just as strong, way more versatile(both inside and out) and simply a more skilled all around boxer. Chavez was a pressure fighter(a great one), plain and simple, Duran had all that and then some.

That post shows you don't need massive paragraphs to make your point. Well said Sweet Pea.

[JohnThomas1]

as in right hand power, bro. I'm not going to break down every single comparison for the simpletons.

Ah, how could we not have known lol. Let us call Mayweather a very very poor man's Tommy Hearn's, including in right hand power. Good right hand speed and power but she wasn't no Tommy.

[Robbi]

Thunderpower. If you don't mind me asking. How do you see a fight between Chavez and Whitaker shaping out at 135lbs?

[Robbi]

Mayweather doesn't have the same KO percentage at 130/140lbs as Hearns did at 147/154lbs. Which makes his argument seem even more strange. Height and reach aint even close either.

[Robbi]

Right. That is why he got dropped, lost, got KO'ed, and quit in HIS PRIME.

Let me know where in Chavez' run to 89-0 did he get dropped, KO'ed, and lose. Thanks for playing.

Duran got KO'd in his prime?. The first time he was KO'd was against Hearns in 1984 when everyone in the world would agree he was at least 3-4 years past his prime. Please don't come back and make a case for Duran being in his prime against Hearns. I think your having a laugh about all this Chavez nonsense over Duran.

[Robbi]

I'll be as fair with my comparison as possible. Duran was just as past his prime against Hearns as Chavez was against De La Hoya when they first squared off.

[Robbi]

Did you also teach him to sit, roll-over, and play dead? Or how about to fetch your newspaper? Now go rub his tummy. :rofl :rofl :rofl

We knew you weren't serious. You sure are the joker of the pack on this thread, and the evidence is for all to see.

[TIGEREDGE]

50 50 fight. could go any way. i like duran on points

You have got to say that J.C'S chin was better than durans

To those who think it would be a walk in the park for RD. Remember the de jesus fights 1 + 2

[Robbi]

Buh-bye. I have to get going, girls, but I will be back for after school sessions for those who did not get enough of this schooling!! Calm down everyone, I was just joking this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see you swerved by question about Chavez v Whitaker at lightweight. Don't blame you either. Wise move and the most intelligent thing you have done all night.

[TIGEREDGE]

Thank you. I can't understand why anyone would pick Chavez over Duran - are these the same people who choose Hamed over Pep or Walker over Robinson?

thats an exageration. JC has a great chance of beating duran

[Robbi]

Well, that you can´t see self-irony when it´s tattooed on the inside of your eyelids is really your problem. Can´t help you with that one. But why are so aggressiv? Why are you throwing insults around? Don´t you have any other arguments? You know, maybe i´m looking a bit like a fool but at least i have class.

He's a wind up merchant, combined with a lack of knowledge. I don't claim to be a person who knows it all, but can't think of being laughed at by a group of people for outrageous points of view on here when trying to argue my case.

[Robbi]

How? What's he great at(and that's really only one style) Duran is better and more versatile at, and Duran is better in other ways and capable of winning the fight in those respects as well. Too versatile whole being even better at Chavez's game.

Versality was the reason why Duran took Hagler the distance, and beat fighters naturally bigger than himself. Not too sure Chavez can boast going the distance with anyone close to Hagler's strength and ability. Chavez's highest weight class combined with his best quality opponent was Whitaker, and he got a lesson. To make matters look even worse for Chavez in comparison to Duran moving up, Whitaker himself moved up through the weights.

[Manassa]

thats an exageration. JC has a great chance of beating duran

Nope.

[Mendoza]

In their physical primes, at this weight class. If this isn't one of the best match ups ever, then I don't know what is.

I'm going with Duran by decision, but it would be a great scrap!:good

I think Duran has a bit more talent, but I’m going with Chavez here. Style wise Duran liked to pressure his man. Chavez liked to slug. Julio Chavez had a great left hook to the body, took a better punch, and hit harder than Duran did. If they go at each other I think Chavez has the advantage.

To win, Duran would need one of his better defensive performances. The way to beat Chavez was with speed, movement, and defense. Duran could do it, but I don’t see him trying to do this in a fantasy fight that would ooze machismo.

[Manassa]

Why do people think Chavez had a better chin?

Granted, he wasn't knocked out in the same fashion as Duran was on 'that' night, but did he ever face a puncher as tumultuous as Thomas Hearns? Furthermore, who thinks Chavez would weather the same punches Duran did from Iran Barkley?

And punching power? I'd go with Duran, easily. Not that he was a much harder hitter, but I'm quite positive he hit a bit harder. Duran's knockout reel at lightweight is quite spectacular, but a lot of it goes unseen because his lightweight title fights are mostly rare.

[TIGEREDGE]

How? What's he great at(and that's really only one style) Duran is better and more versatile at, and Duran is better in other ways and capable of winning the fight in those respects as well. Too versatile while being even better at Chavez's game.

JCC WAS GREAT AT BODY PUNCHING, SLIPPING PUNCHES, TAKING A PUNCH.

I fancy duran, but a chvez win would be a great possibility. if de jesus beat him, jc could

[Robbi]

Why do people think Chavez had a better chin?

Granted, he wasn't knocked out in the same fashion as Duran was on 'that' night, but did he ever face a puncher as tumultuous as Thomas Hearns? Furthermore, who thinks Chavez would weather the same punches Duran did from Iran Barkley?

And punching power? I'd go with Duran, easily. Not that he was a much harder hitter, but I'm quite positive he hit a bit harder. Duran's knockout reel at lightweight is quite spectacular, but a lot of it goes unseen because his lightweight title fights are mostly rare.

Combine his title fights at lightweight with the 20 plus non-title fights he had between the defenses over his reign as well.

I don't think for one moment Chavez could stand up to Barkley's punches, but Chavez never moved up to 160lbs like Duran did, so not a fair comparison.

[TIGEREDGE]

Why do people think Chavez had a better chin?

Granted, he wasn't knocked out in the same fashion as Duran was on 'that' night, but did he ever face a puncher as tumultuous as Thomas Hearns? Furthermore, who thinks Chavez would weather the same punches Duran did from Iran Barkley?

And punching power? I'd go with Duran, easily. Not that he was a much harder hitter, but I'm quite positive he hit a bit harder. Duran's knockout reel at lightweight is quite spectacular, but a lot of it goes unseen because his lightweight title fights are mostly rare.

I don't hold the hearns ko against duran. that punch would of knocked down a wall. but esteban de jesus had him down twice. i heard wilfred benitez rocked him a few times

Chavez took some big blows from murderous punchers like rogerf mayweather and edwin rosario

[Mendoza]

Why do people think Chavez had a better chin?

Granted, he wasn't knocked out in the same fashion as Duran was on 'that' night, but did he ever face a puncher as tumultuous as Thomas Hearns? Furthermore, who thinks Chavez would weather the same punches Duran did from Iran Barkley?

And punching power? I'd go with Duran, easily. Not that he was a much harder hitter, but I'm quite positive he hit a bit harder. Duran's knockout reel at lightweight is quite spectacular, but a lot of it goes unseen because his lightweight title fights are mostly rare.

Chavez had a thick skull. This was confirmed by x-rays. It was twice as thick as a normal humans his size. I saw them both Chavez and Duran fight plenty. IMO, Chavez had the better chin.

Duran was never a big puncher. He was an attrition type of puncher. Chavez had heavier hands, and a real equalizer of a left hook to the body.

At light weight, Chavez to me took and threw the better punch. Duran of course had more speed and the type of skills that could win rounds on jabs.

[Manassa]

Chavez had a thick skull. This was confirmed by x-rays. It was twice as thick as a normal humans his size. I saw them both Chavez and Duran fight plenty. IMO, Chavez had the better chin.

Duran was never a big puncher. He was an attrition type of puncher. Chavez had heavier hands, and a real equalizer of a left hook to the body.

At light weight, Chavez to me took and threw the better punch. Duran of course had more speed and the type of skills that could win rounds on jabs.

Chavez had a thick skull. This was confirmed by x-rays. It was twice as thick as a normal humans his size. I saw them both Chavez and Duran fight plenty. IMO, Chavez had the better chin.

Concussion is caused when the brain rattles inside the skull, bashing against the inside walls. Thickness of the skull wouldn't matter as much as you might think.

Duran was never a big puncher. He was an attrition type of puncher. Chavez had heavier hands, and a real equalizer of a left hook to the body.

At lightweight, Duran was a very big puncher. What fights are thinking of? The man was a killer. If anything, Chavez was the grinder and Duran the sharpshooter.

At light weight, Chavez to me took and threw the better punch. Duran of course had more speed and the type of skills that could win rounds on jabs.

The jab was never one of Duran's stronger points, so I don't know what you mean. He was just better than Chavez.

[Robbi]

Chavez had a thick skull. This was confirmed by x-rays. It was twice as thick as a normal humans his size. I saw them both Chavez and Duran fight plenty. IMO, Chavez had the better chin.

Duran was never a big puncher. He was an attrition type of puncher. Chavez had heavier hands, and a real equalizer of a left hook to the body.

At light weight, Chavez to me took and threw the better punch. Duran of course had more speed and the type of skills that could win rounds on jabs.

Duran could bang at lightweight, and his stoppages inside the distance back it up. But he never had the same kind of power at lightweight comparable to fighters with impressive knockouts records in other divisions. Hearns' power at welterweight was freakish. Tyson at heavyweight you could throw into the mix as well. Duran never had the type of power that would totally short circuit opponents. Many of his knockouts at lightweight were done down the stretch.

[Robbi]

One of my favourite HLs out there, the other one is that Whitaker highlight. do you know if there exists a downloadable version?

Tobkhan. Duran v Whitaker at lightweight?

[Mendoza]

Concussion is caused when the brain rattles inside the skull, bashing against the inside walls. Thickness of the skull wouldn't matter as much as you might think.

It matters. Chavez had a hard head. The old timers used to refer to it as a double skull. Chavez was a bit like Lightweight Nelson or Heavyweight Jeffries. Fighters who fought Chavez often said he had a hard head. My point here is Chavez took the better punch.


At lightweight, Duran was a very big puncher. What fights are thinking of? The man was a killer. If anything, Chavez was the grinder and Duran the sharpshooter.

Duran a big puncher at light weight? Which fight? The hardest blows I’ve seen land in a light weight match was his fight was vs Kobashi. Chavez to me was more likely to hurt his man with one shot. Especially the hook to the head or body.


The jab was never one of Duran's stronger points, so I don't know what you mean. He was just better than Chavez.

Duran had an under rated Jab. I wasn’t talking about the difference in jab’s. I was trying to say Duran was better equipped to box and win rounds.

[Robbi]

The highlights of Duran knocking out opponents on the video clips are impressive. But if you look at his record, those KO's mostly came in long gruelling affairs down the stretch. Buchanan was a low blow after the bell during the 13th, De Jesus II was down the stretch in the 11th, Lampkin was the 14th round, and many others after 10 rounds. Duran was a powerful KO artist at lightweight, but his punching ability doesn't quite measure up to that of Hearns and Tyson, although both those guys fought in higher divisions and "pound for pound" obviously punched harder.

Tyson got Berbick, Holmes, and Spinks out there all within 4 rounds. Hearns smacked Cuevas senseless inside 2 rounds, and string of others before he won the title. Duran never got the job done that early, sometimes, but most of the time it was late.

This is why Id take Whitaker to decision Duran. Whitaker wouldn't be there enough for Duran to soften him up to get him into position to reel off a 2-3 punch burst for a KO.

[Manassa]

It matters. Chavez had a hard head. The old timers used to refer to it as a double skull. Chavez was a bit like Lightweight Nelson or Heavyweight Jeffries. Fighters who fought Chavez often said he had a hard head. My point here is Chavez took the better punch.




Duran a big puncher at light weight? Which fight? The hardest blows I’ve seen land in a light weight match was his fight was vs Kobashi. Chavez to me was more likely to hurt his man with one shot. Especially the hook to the head or body.




Duran had an under rated Jab. I wasn’t talking about the difference in jab’s. I was trying to say Duran was better equipped to box and win rounds.

You're saying Duran wasn't a big hitter at lightweight. I think that tells me all I need to know about whether I should even bother countering your argument or not.

[Robbi]

One of the matchups i really would love to see. Whitaker is one of the very few who could have beaten a lw Duran. I would take the elusivness of Whitaker over the agression of Duran. Close UD perhaps a SD or MD if a judge favours agressivness. Whitaker could also be robbed :D

Agreed. Whitaker has too much ring knowledge to let Duran dominate him. His movement, ability to fight effectively while backing up, and his spearing long range jab would be too much for Duran.

[TIGEREDGE]

Beeing knocked down means shit when it comes to chin.

OH I THINK IT DOES. R U GOING TO TELL ME THAT TITO HAD A GREAT CHIN. HE GOT KNOCKED DOWN A FEW TIMES AND COMEBACK TO WIN

[Shake]

I'm very confident in a Duran UD. If there is any fight virtually guaranteed to be a classic, it's this one. I'd pay a small fortune to see it.

Duran gave us a wonderful example of how he dealt with pressure fighters in his match against Pipino Cuevas. While Chavez is craftier and greater than Pipino, Duran showed that he matches up well with pure pressure fighters through ring intelligence, boxing ability, a good counterpunch and simple guile.

He'd outbox and outbrawl Chavez through subtleties. I'm sure he'd do more damage in the fight, too. 9-6, Duran.

[Shake]

For the record, Duran is by far my favorite fighter, and if I had to bet my life, I'd take Whitaker against him. Just a bad matchup stylistically, and between ATG's, that's usually what seperates them.

[Robbi]

For the record, Duran is by far my favorite fighter, and if I had to bet my life, I'd take Whitaker against him. Just a bad matchup stylistically, and between ATG's, that's usually what seperates them.

Duran is also my favourite fighter of all time. I have a framed photo of him between rounds on his stool from the first Leonard fight, with Arcel leaning through the ropes getting Duran's ear. Got a Duran signed glove, and a Whitaker one as well.

Duran doesn't make Whitaker miss and make him pay as much as Whitaker does the other way around.

Whitaker sure has the movement and ring generalship to offset an aggressive Duran at 135lbs.

[la-califa]

This would be a great match up simply because each fighter plays perfectly into the others offensive gameplan. Each is too good to suffer a knockout, so the question remains, who would be more effective against the other's style. Duran is a bit more intense & faster than Chavez. But although being outscored Chavez issues a physical beating to the body unmatched. Could Duran withstand the physical torture that Taylor endured? Or Rosario & Mayweather for that matter. Chavez doesen't throw wild roundhouse punches, but his punches are very effective. Duran's raw aggression will carry him early on and he however never quits( New Orleans aside). In a latin war Duran would be at his best & would need to be for this one. A good question is the late rounds. Always entering the 11th & 12th rounds Chavez seemed to really be hitting his stride. I have always be curious to see how he would have done in the true"Championship" rounds. 13-15. Although I don't see Duran taking a physical beating to a degree that Rosario & Taylor did. But in a fight were both fighters would be landing hard shots. Chavez' body attack will reap the benefits in the late rounds & slow Duran down. Chavez would close the gap. But Duran has too much heart to let it slip away. This most likely would go down to the last round & I can't think of who would dig down the deepest to pull it out. Pick' em.

[rekcutnevets]

I've always liked this match. Back around 1992 or 1993, after a USA Tuesday Night Fights victory for Duran, Duran claimed he wanted to drop to 154 or 147 to face Chavez. I would have wanted to see this fight even though it was way past Duran's peak.

Chavez' offense was more calculated, focused, and systematically destructive than that of Duran's. Duran was more fierce, stronger, and had a few more athletic gifts than Chavez at this weight.

Both fighters are vulnerable to taller fighers, and stand up a litte to tall againt them. This won't come into play in this fight.

Duran by decision. Duran's physical gifts win this affair, 115-113 in rounds; but more convincingly than the scoring shows.

[Lex]

Wrong. I know Duran lost in his prime and QUIT in his prime. Let me know when you find out when Chavez quit or lost in his prime.
Yikes, not this old saw again. :nono

Chavez quit against Oscar DLH. Unless you want to cut his some slack due to the fact that he was sick - literally - from swallowing blood.

Duran at welterweight and heavier was never a prime Duran. His prime was at lightweight. He just happened to be good enough to handle most of the best above his ideal weight and beyond his peak age.

And Duran claimed, basically, that he had to take a dump, and a body shot from Leonard left him worrying he was gonna do it right there on TV in front of zillions of people. I believe him. I've seen fighters vomit in the ring after swallowing blood and have to quit. It's easy to say what you'd do until you're there.

Several months ago the WBC Women's Super Bantamweight champ, Alejandra Marina Oliveras, admitted that she wasn't at her best during a title defense because she had to pee. I love Locomotora and cracked up at this remark.

Anyway, blah-blah-blah, back to the question at hand...

Duran's workrate was too much for Chavez. He put on even more pressure than Chavez. He was quicker with better footwork and an outstanding jab, which is often overlooked. It was key to Duran's offense - he seldom jumped in without setting up with the jab. And he didn't take many hard shots to the head - he turned with punches. Because of his lank hair he'd fling a halo of sweat when he dodged punches, making it seem like he'd been hit. But study the fights in slo-mo.

Close fight but a clear decision for Duran.

[JohnThomas1]

you are a dirt poor version of Max Kellerman who hails from a country that has produced ZERO HOF'ers. Keep dreaming though, one day you might wake up to reality.

Ken Buchanan?

[Executioner]

Duran by a pretty clear decision.

[brooklyn1550]

Thunderpower has sex with farm animals.

:lol:

[JohnThomas1]

WHO?

The laffs on you

:lol:

[sweet_scientist]

Chavez was more prime for the Whitaker fight than what Duran was for the Leonard rematch.

Oh, and Chavez got schooled in that one. :good

[JohnThomas1]

your mom cried when I did her doggstyle. She thought you were going to be a puppy! :patsch :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

You'd be much more in your element over in General. Plenty of mentally challenged filth loving peeps (among some good too) over there. You'll fit right in

[Only registered and activated users can see links]



:hi:

[JohnThomas1]

Mr. Fool, check the record book and let me know if the Whitaker vs Chavez fight reads Whitaker UD, TKO, KO, SD, MD, or any other form of a "W" vs Chavez. Don't take too long though.

While he's doing that you'd better check the HOF for members from Scotland

:oops:

:rofl

[sweet_scientist]

according to the judges he didn't, and that's where it ends. Too bad, so sad. Your favorite fighter stunk out the joint by trying to defend his belt running backwards.
Weren't you the one giving Manassa shit for relying on others' opinions? You're going to take the judges' opinions seriously now that it suits you?

[Street Lethal]

No way Duran knocks out Chavez. The Mexican is just too damn tough. It would be a thrilling close war, but in the end, Roberto would outbox Julio.

[sweet_scientist]

They are the ones who are officially judging the fight. What you and I judge/say are just opinions based on what we like. Our opinions don't matter for the record books.
But who decides whether the record books matter or not? Isn't that just an opinion as well? It seems to me you're trying to give the record books some credibility there over and above mere opinions.

Let me ask you, how much credibility do the record books have when they record decisions like Lewis-Holyfield I and Fenech-Nelson I as draws and declare that Escalera beat Everett? Are they worth the paper they are recorded on?

Besides, I'm not on ESB trying to argue a point and then look to see what other ESB'ers said to see if I have a point. Nor do I look for someone to say, "Oh, you made a great point Thunderpower." What I have been arguing is my opinion versus the others.

Others, however, have felt that it is their opinon that matters and that's the end of the story. Well, I don't see it that way. Like I said, the people who have been arguing with me have said that Duran would beat Chavez and that is THEIR opinion. I feel that I have seen enough of both men to say that Chavez would win, which is MY opinion. So what you and everyone here is saying that it is okay to ridicule my opinion but I have to respect yours? Uh uh, doesn't work that way. You don't have to like, respect, or even read my opinions, but don't try and come on here and try and ridicule my opinions because they are different. I was making reasonable arguments and keeping things clean albeit with a little sarcasm until old Sweet Pee wanted to take it to the filth level. Don't push me and then cry cause I push back. :bbb
Well if its all a matter of opinions, well it's everyone's opinion here that you shouldn't be taken seriously. Are you fine with that?

[Shake]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[CASH_718]

Judah KO 1

[laxpdx]

Duran by comfortable UD at the very least. Roberto was vastly superior in every aspect. What's more, he was a champion because he had what it took. On the other hand, I feel Chavez' greatness was more the result of careful planning than actual earning. He was a tough, solid fighter, but I don't think he was as great as that 90-0 record at the time led so many to believe. Julio was a judge's favorite.

[JohnThomas1]

Oh how i wish i was a mod some days

:lol:

[Manassa]

Great thread :oops:

[laxpdx]

Oh how i wish i was a mod some days

John, did my post on this thread offend you? I hope not.

[JohnThomas1]

Oh how i wish i was a mod some days

John, did my post on this thread offend you? I hope not.

Nooooo, but there's one particular halfwit i think i'd just have to ban in this thread. Luckily i ain't got da power man

:lol:

[achillesthegreat]

It's all about the hands of stone.

[Stonehands89]

Buh-bye. I have to get going, girls, but I will be back for after school sessions for those who did not get enough of this schooling!! Calm down everyone, I was just joking this time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ThunderPower, you wrote that post above yesterday after saying that "Duran was KOd in his prime" and comparing Floyd's right to Hearns' right.

You then returned to the thread and continued with the same line of argument in favor of Chavez. What were you joking about?

[Robbi]

ThunderPower, you wrote that post above yesterday after saying that "Duran was KOd in his prime" and comparing Floyd's right to Hearns' right.

You then returned to the thread and continued with the same line of argument in favor of Chavez. What were you joking about?


He's not worth taking seriously.

[Stonehands89]

He's not worth taking seriously.
I'm not. But if he's not careful, I'm going to expose him.

[TIGEREDGE]

Duran is the superior boxer in ability but so was Miguel Cotto when he fought margarito last week. styles make fights

if JCC can land on duran like de jesus did, i reckon that JCC would knock out duran. them body punches of JCC would destroy anyone

I think that Duran would have to box perfectly to win this fight. I think that JCC would come out the winner 9 times out of 10 in a slug fest. watch the second De Jesus fight. Duran went really wild in that fight and was open to shot to both body and head

the duran of the 3rd De Jesus would would beat any JCC most of the time

[JohnThomas1]

Duran is the superior boxer in ability but so was Miguel Cotto when he fought margarito last week. styles make fights

if JCC can land on duran like de jesus did, i reckon that JCC would knock out duran. them body punches of JCC would destroy anyone

I think that Duran would have to box perfectly to win this fight. I think that JCC would come out the winner 9 times out of 10 in a slug fest. watch the second De Jesus fight. Duran went really wild in that fight and was open to shot to both body and head

the duran of the 3rd De Jesus would would beat any JCC most of the time

Big Chavez fan and also believe he gets a bit of short thrift in these matchups but IMO there's no way on earth he's stopping Duran, gosh. Duran took SRL's best slashing combinations very very solidly not to mention big blows from the likes of Hagler and Barkley all the way up at 160. Only the freakish power/speed combo of peak Hearns could pull him up and that's at 154.

If anyones getting stopped it's Chavez, and i also don't think that will happen - tho it's certainly possible. Duran stopped here tho, nooooooo.

[Holmes' Jab]

Big Chavez fan and also believe he gets a bit of short thrift in these matchups but IMO there's no way on earth he's stopping Duran, gosh. Duran took SRL's best slashing combinations very very solidly not to mention big blows from the likes of Hagler and Barkley all the way up at 160. Only the freakish power/speed combo of peak Hearns could pull him up and that's at 154.

If anyones getting stopped it's Chavez, and i also don't think that will happen - tho it's certainly possible. Duran stopped here tho, nooooooo.


Just about how I see it too. A stoppage is a wee bit of a long shot. Chavez goes the distance, but drops a UD.

[Holmes' Jab]

On a slightly different note: Hatton vs Duran would be fetch the stretcher time. Duran by KO.

[Sweet Pea]

Duran is the superior boxer in ability but so was Miguel Cotto when he fought margarito last week. styles make fightsDuran is also the superior brawler and inside fighter, much more fluid and not as confined to certain methods as Chavez.


if JCC can land on duran like de jesus did, i reckon that JCC would knock out duran. them body punches of JCC would destroy anyone
So what are you saying? If he landed a body shot he'd KO Duran? I somehow disagree.


I think that Duran would have to box perfectly to win this fight. I think that JCC would come out the winner 9 times out of 10 in a slug fest. watch the second De Jesus fight. Duran went really wild in that fight and was open to shot to both body and head
I think Duran was a much better brawler, considering Chavez resorted to boxing when faced with real return fire against the likes of Lockridge and La Porte at 130. Duran was just much more versatile and ferocious on the inside, Chavez a lot more reserved normally. Duran also had the better defense by a fair margin, especially in close.


the duran of the 3rd De Jesus would would beat any JCC most of the time
Chavez may beat the Duran of the first Dejesus fight, but neither of the next two.

[Bill Butcher]

Not suprising that most pick Duran as JCC is badly underrated on ESB.

Saying that, this is arguably my all time fav mythical match, the only reason I give the edge to Duran myself was because he is naturally bigger & therefore hit harder, otherwise there really is not a great deal between them IMO.

I think the JCC that TKOd Rosario would have a solid chance at beating any LWT version of Duran but the Duran who beat Dejesus in their 3rd fight might take him on pts as that was a very big LWT Duran + he was bang right at his absolute peak in that fight & believe me, it would take the 1978 version of Duran to beat JCC, any other version & I might back JCC from 1987 to win on pts.

What a war. 50/50 fight if not for Duran`s size & power but even then, its a close thriller.

[red cobra]

On a slightly different note: Hatton vs Duran would be fetch the stretcher time. Duran by KO.
Yes, either Chavez or Duran would have done a serious number on Hatton. Either one would have overwhelmed the lad. For that matter, I think a prime Tzysu would have been too much for Ricky. I'm not, by the way, a hater of Ricky Hatton, just a realist, having been around way back then, and having seen the best of Duran, as well as of JCC and Kostya.

[la-califa]

Chavez was a magnificent fighter - just look at his record. Some of his performances are excellent.

Chavez had an excellent defence for a pressure fighter - watch him duck punches, slip them and block shots with a tight guard. He hit hard as well with short, crisp punches, and he'd be on you all night if he felt like it.

But he wasn't as good as Duran.

The difference was a thing some like to call 'genius' - it's both a mental and physical quality that is possessed by very few fighters and it only comes along once in a blue moon. Duran had it.

Watch Duran against Carlos Palomino, arguably his best performance. Watch it carefully; look at Duran's smooth, gliding movement. He flows brilliantly and dazzles Palomino with his handspeed and unorthodox, innovative but fundamentally brilliant moves. While Chavez would stalk Edwin Rosario, back him up against the ropes and trade with him, Duran would taunt Palomino with feinting hands and feet, make him duck and uppercut him in the ribs; then he might skip back, let Palomino think he's in the clear then whack him with a one-two.

Chavez didn't have those rapid fire reflexes like Duran. He couldn't pull off a move like the sixth round knockdown on Palomino, where Duran whipped in a right hand out of nowhere and was ready to react and counter. Chavez was a fighter who was content to read from the textbook, but in turn it made his moves too tidy and clean. Compare him to Duran on the inside, for example; Chavez is ducking, slipping, hooking hard and defending himself nicely. But it's all too conventional, too neat and trim - there was nothing confusing about it. Duran, on the other hand, would tie up his opponent but still somehow be hitting him with uppercuts. He'd be loose and flexible like a piece of elastic, his head moving with punches as though he had an in-built radar. Duran was untidy on the inside but devilishly effective, and I think he'd find Chavez predictable and time him to perfection - just like he did with Palomino.

I tell you what 'fight' may sum this one up... Achilles versus Hector in the film Troy. In terms of basic physicalities; strength, speed, stamina, they were probably equal. But Achilles possessed that extra attribute, that genius. He was a class above. You saw his snake-like movement and inventive maneuvers, he confused Hector and brought a whole new method to the table which the latter had never seen before. Though merely a fantasy fight, the factors within that battle reflect what can happen in real life. Great analyzation of these two fights, but the end result is what matters... Palomino was surely beaten by Duran, but on the other hand Rosario was utterly destroyed. This is tough to call. Both are great fighters.

[Sweet Pea]

Great analyzation of these two fights, but the end result is what matters... Palomino was surely beaten by Duran, but on the other hand Rosario was utterly destroyed. This is tough to call. Both are great fighters.The Palomino fight was at WW and against a naturally bigger fighter than Duran. The same is not the case with Chavez and Rosario. Chavez was at his peak for that fight, Duran was not at his peak or best weight for Palomino.

At LW, both at their best, Duran is still too versatile and skilled for Chavez.

[TIGEREDGE]

Duran is also the superior brawler and inside fighter, much more fluid and not as confined to certain methods as Chavez.

So what are you saying? If he landed a body shot he'd KO Duran? I somehow disagree.

I think Duran was a much better brawler, considering Chavez resorted to boxing when faced with real return fire against the likes of Lockridge and La Porte at 130. Duran was just much more versatile and ferocious on the inside, Chavez a lot more reserved normally. Duran also had the better defense by a fair margin, especially in close.

Chavez may beat the Duran of the first Dejesus fight, but neither of the next two.
some of your points pea are subject to debate. thats what makes this fight so great. we would never know who was superior unless these two fought

I remember when De La Hoya fought Tito. Everyone thought that it was going to be classic brawl. Loads of people thought that oscar could only win be KO and brawling. very few thought that he could put on a boxing clinic like he did. Many were saying that tito was the better boxer

You never know until they get in the ring

[TIGEREDGE]

I think Duran was a much better brawler, considering Chavez resorted to boxing when faced with real return fire against the likes of Lockridge and La Porte at 130. Duran was just much more versatile and ferocious on the inside, Chavez a lot more reserved normally. Duran also had the better defense by a fair margin, especially in close.

ask meldrick taylor and edwin rosario about jcc'S FEROCITY and effectiveness on the inside

Duran was sometimes gulty of being too ferocious thus leaving himself open to being countered

[Sweet Pea]

ask meldrick taylor and edwin rosario about jcc'S FEROCITY and effectiveness on the inside

Duran was sometimes gulty of being too ferocious thus leaving himself open to being counteredDuran had the best head movement of any pressure fighter ever. I suggest watching more of his fights at LW, you are badly underrating his superb defense. He rarely got tagged flush(aside from in the first round) even in his most aggressive performances like Dejesus II because he either slipped and countered them himself, or rolled with them. He looked fantastic in that fight if you watched closely. Excellent feints as well.

Definitely better defensively than Chavez. Rosario was Chavez's best performance, excellent stuff he showed that night, but he never showed the versatility, or that extra genius as Manassa put it, the way Duran did on different occasions.

Tell me if Chavez was capable of fighting like this, this is what I mean by versatility:

f9Ha-nojbjY

[TIGEREDGE]

Duran had the best head movement of any pressure fighter ever. I suggest watching more of his fights at LW, you are badly underrating his superb defense. He rarely got tagged flush(aside from in the first round) even in his most aggressive performances like Dejesus II because he either slipped and countered them himself, or rolled with them. He looked fantastic in that fight if you watched closely. Excellent feints as well.

Definitely better defensively than Chavez. Rosario was Chavez's best performance, excellent stuff he showed that night, but he never showed the versatility, or that extra genius as Manassa put it, the way Duran did on different occasions.

Tell me if Chavez was capable of fighting like this, this is what I mean by versatility:

f9Ha-nojbjY

I am not arguing with you about Durans defence and skills. the man for me is the 3rd best boxer of all time. But styles and attributes make fights and the superior man does not always come out on top.

What happens when duran realises that he cannot hurt Chavez? it may frustrate him. he has never met any one as tecnically sound is well as being extremely tough (I knwo he fough leonard and hagler but he hurt leonard and Hagler held back a bit)

This fight is the most intriguing matchup of all time for me. It would be a great war but a tactical battle is well

[Sweet Pea]

What happens when duran realises that he cannot hurt Chavez? it may frustrate him. he has never met any one as tactically sound is well as being extremely tough
What makes you think he couldn't hurt him? If someone is there for Duran to hit all night long, Duran isn't going to get frustrated, only when the opposite tactic is applied is that even a possibility. And considering, as I said, Chavez has been backed up before by lesser fighters, I don't think it's out of bounds to think Duran hurts him to either the body or head over the course of 15 rounds.

[la-califa]

The Palomino fight was at WW and against a naturally bigger fighter than Duran. The same is not the case with Chavez and Rosario. Chavez was at his peak for that fight, Duran was not at his peak or best weight for Palomino.

At LW, both at their best, Duran is still too versatile and skilled for Chavez. Duran had a very large build for a Lightweight & appeared to be comfortable at Welterweight. Chavez did move up also for the Rosario fight. (His first fight at 135 after several defenses at 130.) Plus there was some discussion here at ESB a couple of weeks ago about when Duran Peaked. & some stated it was against Leonard, Which was after the Palomino bout. Still not saying Chavez would have beat Duran. Just stating a few odd facts.

[Sweet Pea]

Duran had a very large build for a Lightweight & appeared to be comfortable at Welterweight. Chavez did move up also for the Rosario fight. (His first fight at 135 after several defenses at 130.) Plus there was some discussion here at ESB a couple of weeks ago about when Duran Peaked. & some stated it was against Leonard, Which was after the Palomino bout. Still not saying Chavez would have beat Duran. Just stating a few odd facts.

Chavez was at his very best at 135, especially in the Rosario fight. That was his absolute peak, so it's not as if he was at any kind of disadvantage. He looked much better there than he did at 130. In fact 130 is probably where he showed the least amount of technical skill and experience.

Duran, IMO, did not peak in the Leonard fight in any other area than motivation. It was one of his best performances for that reason, but he was at his natural best as a LW. He peaked a couple years before that bout, but got up for Leonard like no other.

[TIGEREDGE]

What makes you think he couldn't hurt him? If someone is there for Duran to hit all night long, Duran isn't going to get frustrated, only when the opposite tactic is applied is that even a possibility. And considering, as I said, Chavez has been backed up before by lesser fighters, I don't think it's out of bounds to think Duran hurts him to either the body or head over the course of 15 rounds.
theres nothing wrong with being back up. it does not mean he was hurt or outhustled.

[la-califa]

Chavez was at his very best at 135, especially in the Rosario fight. That was his absolute peak, so it's not as if he was at any kind of disadvantage. He looked much better there than he did at 130. In fact 130 is probably where he showed the least amount of technical skill and experience.

Duran, IMO, did not peak in the Leonard fight in any other area than motivation. It was one of his best performances for that reason, but he was at his natural best as a LW. He peaked a couple years before that bout, but got up for Leonard like no other. Yes, Very good estimation I agree. But isn't it strange Chavez peaked at 135 & spent way less time there than at both 130 & 140?

[Sweet Pea]

Yes, Very good estimation I agree. But isn't it strange Chavez peaked at 135 & spent way less time there than at both 130 & 140?It is. I don't understand why he didn't stay longer.

[PATRICKBOXING]

i think duran was more acurrate and could punch slightly harder but i dont see duran koing him duran going forward was a genius who could slipand counter body punches never bothered him i see duran winning a fairly close decision by 3 or 4 point margins

[Robbi]

theres nothing wrong with being back up. it does not mean he was hurt or outhustled.

Well if a fighter is being backed up and not doing it optionally, due to his opponents offense rather than strategically, then it shows he's having to adjust to whats coming his way. And if someone who pressures like Chavez is being backed up then it shows that he's been taken out of his comfort zone. It doesn't mean to say he's being hurt, but it certainly equates to him being outhustled.

[the cobra]

Considering that the only guy who went 15 rounds with Duran at 135lbs was Edwin Viruet, who ran from him all night long, I don't think that Duran stopping Chavez very late in 15 is out of the question, although I personally don't see it. I do feel Duran takes this by 4, maybe 5 points. He's faster, hits harder, superior defensively, better footwork, can match Chavez' stamina and chin for chin, probably a more accurate puncher, better at putting combos together. Chavez was marvelous at his peak, he was a complete fighter, but in his prime I feel Duran was just better at virtually everything (although Chavez commited to the body a bit more).