Riddick Bowe (1992) vs Joe Frazier (1971)

[ChrisPontius]

The Bowe from the first Holyfield fight against the Frazier from the first FOTC.

This would be a great fight, how do you see it unfold?

[Luigi1985]

Because of Bowe´s lack of a good defense I would go with Frazier viá midround TKO, Bowe´s punching power was very good, but not that good that he could bomb Smokin´Joe easily out with some shots, I would say Frazier´s combinations and hooks would be just too much for Big Daddy...

Frazier TKO 7 Bowe

[mr. magoo]

ALthough I have the utmost of respect for Frazier, I'm not sure that he had the right tools to beat a large boxer/puncher of Bowe's description and abilities.

In 1991, Riddick Bowe blasted in only two rounds, a well trained and motivated Burt Cooper. Burt was coming off the best fights of his career, by beating Orlin Norris and slugging it out for 12 rounds against Mercer. He would later go on to to being a nightmare for moorer and Holyfield. Although Cooper was no Frazier, he was very similar in size, build, and even certain style characteristics. At 6'5" Bowe would have towered over Joe, and on an average night, outweiged him by 30 pounds or more. It wasn't as though Riddick couldn't move for a big man either. He actually had quite a bit of speed and agility that was rather underrated. What's more, he was never stopped in 44 pro fights. In 37 pro fights, Joe only faced one big puncher, and was demolished. Riddick isn't the puncher that Goerge was, but he had a lot more power than anyone else outside of George whom Frazier fought.

Bowe by TKO between rounds 4 and 7.

[JIm Broughton]

I agree with mr. magoo. Just too damn big.

[Ted Stickles]

ALthough I have the utmost of respect for Frazier, I'm not sure that he had the right tools to beat a large boxer/puncher of Bowe's description and abilities.

In 1991, Riddick Bowe blasted in only two rounds, a well trained and motivated Burt Cooper. Burt was coming off the best fights of his career, by beating Orlin Norris and slugging it out for 12 rounds against Mercer. He would later go on to to being a nightmare for moorer and Holyfield. Although Cooper was no Frazier, he was very similar in size, build, and even certain style characteristics. At 6'5" Bowe would have towered over Joe, and on an average night, outweiged him by 30 pounds or more. It wasn't as though Riddick couldn't move for a big man either. He actually had quite a bit of speed and agility that was rather underrated. What's more, he was never stopped in 44 pro fights. In 37 pro fights, Joe only faced one big puncher, and was demolished. Riddick isn't the puncher that Goerge was, but he had a lot more power than anyone else outside of George whom Frazier fought.

Bowe by TKO between rounds 4 and 7.:good

[Muchmoore]

Frazier was incredibly great when he beat Ali. Bowe was great against Holyfield but Frazier would outwork Bowe and finish him within 15 or win by clear decision. Frazier was only dropped by two fighter his entire career, against arguably the hardest hitter ever, and against Bonavena who was a big puncher and early in Joes career. Bowe wouldn't be able to bomb him out.

[Russell]

Hurm.

Bowe had a HELL of a chin, and like Ali he looked like his head was ready to come off his shoulders. But he took it, and he took them hard.

A good shot was capable of putting Bowe down though. We saw Golotta get him right behind the ear, and boom.

With all the hooking Frazier would do, I can without a doubt see him doing that, exactly like Evander and Golota did.

Bowe has skill to go along with that durability though, and plenty of other abilities for a man his size.

I don't know, hard to call.

[bigG]

bowe by late rounds stoppage..too big, too powerful....and joe is made for that nifty upercut on the inside...i also take the bowe of that night to beat tyson.......but bowes peak was about 30 seconds long in the grand scheme of things, so he wont be remembered like these guys are....for me, bowe was THE heavyweight (burger) king...:lol:

[Russell]

Bowe wasn't exactly consistent in using that uppercut.

[redrooster]

I don't see Bowe losing to Joe Frazier. Magoo's right for all the reasons he mentioned.

[Cojimar 1945]

A Frazier fan could simply counter that Frazier would have been bigger and more powerful if he had been born in the 1960s rather than the 1940s given advances in nutrition and a general increase in people's size.

[Holmes' Jab]

Frazier, by clear UD.

[Marciano Frazier]

In 1991, Riddick Bowe blasted in only two rounds, a well trained and motivated Burt Cooper. Burt was coming off the best fights of his career, by beating Orlin Norris and slugging it out for 12 rounds against Mercer. He would later go on to to being a nightmare for moorer and Holyfield. Although Cooper was no Frazier, he was very similar in size, build, and even certain style characteristics.
I think this analogy is almost insulting. Buster Mathis was similar in size, build and certain style characteristics to Bowe, and Frazier practically decapitated him in 1968. Cooper didn't have Frazier's chin, Frazier's heart, Frazier's stamina, Frazier's skill, or pretty much anything on par with Frazier, aside, perhaps, from raw power.

What's more, he was never stopped in 44 pro fights. In 37 pro fights, Joe only faced one big puncher, and was demolished. Riddick isn't the puncher that Goerge was, but he had a lot more power than anyone else outside of George whom Frazier fought.
Bowe was never stopped in 44 fights compared with Frazier's 37, but we're talking about a bottle of hard liquor contrasted with a glass of sherry when discuss how much tougher and more consistently tough a schedule of opposition Frazier was up against in comparison with Bowe. Moreover, the fact that Bowe was never actually stopped is something of a fluke, as he was down and in serious trouble in the third Holyfield fight and both Golota fights(twice in the rematch, in fact), but Holyfield had hepatitis and Golota was a nutcase.

[fists of fury]

This is a tough fight to call. Does Eddie Futch work either man's corner?

[Cojimar 1945]

Using Cooper as an example does seem odd given that many heavyweights stopped Cooper. Bowe beating Cooper does not seem like a reason to pick him over the vastly more accomplished Frazier.

[Cojimar 1945]

Also why would one conclude that Bowe was a bigger puncher than the guys Frazier fought aside from Foreman?

[Sweet Science]

There aren't many fighters that could have beaten Frazier from '71 I can think of only a handful and Bowe is not one of them.

Foreman might have beaten him but I don't subscribe to the theory that Foreman always would have been a nightmare for Frazier and would always KO Joe. Frazier from '71 was far superior to the versions Foreman fought. Foreman wouldn't have turned Joe into a yo-yo in '71. The left hook the just missed Foremans head in the 1st fight, the one that Foreman says "was like a bullet from a rifle" well Foreman would block a good few of those with his melon against a Joe from '71.

Tyson '87-'88 probably would have beaten Frazier '71 the key difference I feel here would be Tyson's quicker hands and fierce combinations. Tyson would need to take Joe out within the 1st 6-7 rounds to ensure victory, after that I believe Frazier would have taken it. Tyson's biggest chance would be to overwhelm Joe in the first round (no disrespect to Frazier) as he was a slow starter who often lost the 1st round.

Ali '67 would have beaten Joe to a hard fought points win.

I see Frazier knocking Lewis out, beating Holmes and possibly beating Louis too.

Marciano would be 50/50.

Apart from those I've mentioned I see Frazier '71 beating every other heavyweight in history including Bowe. The main factor in his win against '92 Bowe would be his superior workrate and stamina. Bowe was truly great against Holyfield in '92, probably the best heavyweight infighter I've seen but he couldn't keep it up for every second of every round (15 Rounds). He fought in spurts and when he gets tired against Frazier that would be his undoing. Though by no means an easy victory as Bowe would dish out some serious punishment on Frazier.

Frazier by UD, though his own mother probably wouldn't recognise him after the fight.

[Duodenum]

Bowe would have met Frazier on the inside, rather than clinch like Ali did in their middle match, or try shoving Joe out to arm's length as Foreman did. Frazier's shorter arms and and height then translate into an advantageous quickness. He was also a 15 round performer who would have been a bit more relaxed than Bowe. Quarry showed that it was possible to outwork Joe in close for a few rounds, but not through the duration of a long contest. Combine that with Smoke's upper body movement, ruinous attack downstairs, and the size of the target in front of him, and the edge becomes his. Bowe was tough enough to last the distance, but he might pay a visit to the floor in the process.

Frazier UD 15 Bowe

[JohnThomas1]

Frazier TKO7

[mr. magoo]

Using Cooper as an example does seem odd given that many heavyweights stopped Cooper. Bowe beating Cooper does not seem like a reason to pick him over the vastly more accomplished Frazier.

Burt Cooper was never the fighter that Frazier was, but there were both physical and stylistic similarites, and I think Riddick Bowe typically ate up this type of fighter.

[mr. magoo]

Also why would one conclude that Bowe was a bigger puncher than the guys Frazier fought aside from Foreman?

Well, if you disagree then why don't you tell us which opponents you felt hit harder than Bowe? Personally, I don't think Jimmy Ellis, Eddie Machen, Bob Foster, Jerry Quarry, Joe Bugner, Oscar Bonavena, Ron Stander, Terry Daniels or Buster Mathis were stronger or harder hitting then Riddick Bowe.

[mr. magoo]

I think this analogy is almost insulting. Buster Mathis was similar in size, build and certain style characteristics to Bowe, and Frazier practically decapitated him in 1968. Cooper didn't have Frazier's chin, Frazier's heart, Frazier's stamina, Frazier's skill, or pretty much anything on par with Frazier, aside, perhaps, from raw power.

I'm not saying that Burt Cooper was Joe Frazier. I'm saying that there were very similar characteristics. Mathis was nothing like Bowe.
[QUOTE]

Bowe was never stopped in 44 fights compared with Frazier's 37, but we're talking about a bottle of hard liquor contrasted with a glass of sherry when discuss how much tougher and more consistently tough a schedule of opposition Frazier was up against in comparison with Bowe.


Frazier fought great opposition, but I think that you're under selling Bowe's acheivements. Evander Holyfield, Pierre Cotzer, Herbie Hide, Larry Donald and Jorge Luis Gonzalez weren't bums either. No, I can't rate them over Muhammad Ali or Jerry Quarry, but let's just say that Riddick fought a fair amount of reasonably good boxers to.



Moreover, the fact that Bowe was never actually stopped is something of a fluke, as he was down and in serious trouble in the third Holyfield fight and both Golota fights(twice in the rematch, in fact), but Holyfield had hepatitis and Golota was a nutcase.


I don't know why you're calling it a fluke. Holyfield couldn't finish Bowe when he got him in trouble, and neither could Golata before getting himself DQ'd. Rather than trying to make excuses, why don't you just say it like it really is. Bowe was a durable fighter.

[Minotauro]

Frazier via UD. Bowe was tough and a good in fighter but Frazier was a better in fighter and that is where I see the fight going. I don't believe Bowe used his entire tools to there best ability, I see Frazier outworking him in a tough competitive war.

[Sweet Science]

Frazier via UD. Bowe was tough and a good in fighter but Frazier was a better in fighter and that is where I see the fight going. I don't believe Bowe used his entire tools to there best ability, I see Frazier outworking him in a tough competitive war.

I have Frazier winning too, but there is no way Frazier was a better infighter than Bowe. Bowe was the best in that department.

[Sonny's jab]

I'd pick Frazier.

Bowe was tough in that 1992 fight with Holyfield, and showed good skills on the inside, but the Frazier who beat Ali in 1971 would have beaten him.
Frazier's stamina was incredible.

[He Hate Me]

ALthough I have the utmost of respect for Frazier, I'm not sure that he had the right tools to beat a large boxer/puncher of Bowe's description and abilities.

In 1991, Riddick Bowe blasted in only two rounds, a well trained and motivated Burt Cooper. Burt was coming off the best fights of his career, by beating Orlin Norris and slugging it out for 12 rounds against Mercer. He would later go on to to being a nightmare for moorer and Holyfield. Although Cooper was no Frazier, he was very similar in size, build, and even certain style characteristics. At 6'5" Bowe would have towered over Joe, and on an average night, outweiged him by 30 pounds or more. It wasn't as though Riddick couldn't move for a big man either. He actually had quite a bit of speed and agility that was rather underrated. What's more, he was never stopped in 44 pro fights. In 37 pro fights, Joe only faced one big puncher, and was demolished. Riddick isn't the puncher that Goerge was, but he had a lot more power than anyone else outside of George whom Frazier fought.

Bowe by TKO between rounds 4 and 7.

perfect avatar.