Which fighters would you Godless heathens pick to beat Burley at 147

[McGrain]

I promise not to argue or lecture anyone, i'm just curious.

[Manassa]

Robinson
Napoles
Griffith
Gavilan
Armstrong
Ross
Walker
Basilio
Hearns
Rodriguez
Leonard

Burley could beat any of them once, but he wouldn't come out on top in a series. Those are the welterweights I rate as superior to him. Others like Graham, Zivic and McLarnin are 50/50.

[Manassa]

I just think Burley might be too big for the guys who moved up from lighter classes.

Ross and Armstrong? Maybe, but I doubt it. These two were the elite of the elite. I maintain that Burley has become overhyped recently - he wasn't a pound-for-pound legend, just a very good fighter in a very good era who didn't get what he deserved. Not a Ross or Armstrong.

You could say Napoles was a bit smaller, but he still dominated a solid welterweight era all the same.

I forgot Luis Rodriguez, I'll add him to the list.

[Marciano Frazier]

Well, I wanted to comment, but I see this thread's only for godless heathens, so I guess I'm on my way.:sad2

[Manassa]

Hm, surely Ross and Armstrong were both true greats but while some people are overhyping Burley you sell him a bit short. For me Burley was a p4p elite, not on the level of a Armstrong but still. And while he wasn´t as good as a Armstong or a Ross, his size combined with his skill and talent maybe to much for them.

I disagree.

You want an underrated fighter, look at Luis Rodriguez. Compare his record with Burley's - I think you'll find it quite interesting.

[Manassa]

A lot of what Burley is reknowned for is other fighters ducking him, hence he never got the chance to fight a lot of the eilte to further prove himself. I think skill-wise he was on the elite's level.

I'm not sure if you know much about the '60s welterweights and middleweights, but Rodriguez beat a multitude of contenders and champions from both those classes. When analyzed, his record is better than Burley's - regardless of whether Burley was avoided or not. They were hardly queueing up to touch gloves with Rodriguez either. In my opinion, he looks at least as good as Burley on film, probably better (although I will grant you that the best of Burley is unfilmed).

[Manassa]

Hm, i just went through it, not deep just a short look, quite interesting, especially this trilogy with Griffith. It seems more he´s forgotten than underrated.

Gomeo Brennan
Benny Paret
Joe Miceli
Virgil Akins
Sugar Hart
Isaac Logart
Yama Bahama
Curtis Cokes
Federico Thompson
Joey Giambra
Emile Griffith
Denny Moyer
Holly Mims
Jesse Smith
LC Morgan
Rubin Carter
George Benton
Bennie Briscoe
Ted Wright
Vicente Rondon
Fraser Scott
Tony Mundine

That's a very rushed list of the contenders/champions Rodriguez beat. You could also add another two or three onto that since I'm only doing it from memory, and don't forget he beat some of them more than once.

Just to give you an idea, because I wasn't sure how well you knew the era.

[JohnThomas1]

Starling, Curry, want me to go on?

:p

[McGrain]

Well, I wanted to comment, but I see this thread's only for godless heathens, so I guess I'm on my way.:sad2

Feel free, I just presumed that a man of faith wold be able to see the light in this instance too and pick NOBODY to beat Burley at Welter :yep

Tobkhan and Manassa - sorry to break my original promise, but Zivic?! Burley won 2/3 against him and was widely considered to have been robbed in the third decision...he bested Zivic at least twice in three meetings, what is your justification for picking him here?

[mcvey]

Robinson
Napoles
Griffith
Gavilan
Armstrong
Ross
Walker
Basilio
Hearns
Rodriguez
Leonard

Burley could beat any of them once, but he wouldn't come out on top in a series. Those are the welterweights I rate as superior to him. Others like Graham, Zivic and McLarnin are 50/50.
Cant see Graham,good but not great ,I don,t think he belongs in this company ,and Mclarnin is generally underated,imo.With very little footage of Burley to go on,we turn to who he beat,rather like Greb,do you think those you mentioned would beat the guys Burley beat?I suppose that is one rationale,Burley kod very big men so if he caught anybody he could probably stop them,wether his somewhat laidback countering style would find favour with judges nowadays is a moot point,I think Robinson beats him but then I pick Ray over any one at the weight,Napoles,Griffith would be close,what was Burleys best weight?,he is a bit like Armstrong and Langford ,hard to pigeonhole.

[McGrain]

Cant see Graham,good but not great ,I don,t think he belongs in this company ,and Mclarnin is generally underated,imo.With very little footage of Burley to go on,we turn to who he beat,rather like Greb,do you think those you mentioned would beat the guys Burley beat?I suppose that is one rationale,Burley kod very big men so if he caught anybody he could probably stop them,wether his somewhat laidback countering style would find favour with judges nowadays is a moot point,I think Robinson beats him but then I pick Ray over any one at the weight,Napoles,Griffith would be close,what was Burleys best weight?,he is a bit like Armstrong and Langford ,hard to pigeonhole.


Good post I think.

Burley's best weight would have been welter, though he may have kicked of at light-welter if he was fighting now. He moved to Middle primarily to escape the same division as his boss who also happened to be the champion, Zivic.

One thing, Buley's laid back countering style, that is something of a myth. He did turn counter-puncher if he was taking on light-heavies or hit trouble, or was fighting for the second, third time in a short space, but in a big fight at middle or welter, he would often come out looking for the KO early.

If he didn't get it he had a proper measure of his mans power and toughness and as he was near impossible to KO himself the risk was minimal.

[CASH_718]

Judah KO 1

[McGrain]

I think Hearns beats him, moreso than any of the others.


It's possible that Hearns is the cryptonite, but i'm not all the way convinced.

What was his reach?

[ironchamp]

Whitaker
Hearns
Leonard
Robinson

[mcvey]

Gomeo Brennan
Benny Paret
Joe Miceli
Virgil Akins
Sugar Hart
Isaac Logart
Yama Bahama
Curtis Cokes
Federico Thompson
Joey Giambra
Emile Griffith
Denny Moyer
Holly Mims
Jesse Smith
LC Morgan
Rubin Carter
George Benton
Bennie Briscoe
Ted Wright
Vicente Rondon
Fraser Scott
Tony Mundine

That's a very rushed list of the contenders/champions Rodriguez beat. You could also add another two or three onto that since I'm only doing it from memory, and don't forget he beat some of them more than once.

Just to give you an idea, because I wasn't sure how well you knew the era.
I posted three threads on Rodriguez,one high lighting his resume,and his wins over feared Middles,and got very limited response,the Cuban wasnt a crowd pleaser so maybe that was it,people would sooner yap yap about Tyson allday,so be it.

[JohnThomas1]

I posted three threads on Rodriguez,one high lighting his resume,and his wins over feared Middles,and got very limited response,the Cuban wasnt a crowd pleaser so maybe that was it,people would sooner yap yap about Tyson allday,so be it.

What footage is available of the guy? I might even have some here somewhere in which case i'd better have a Captain Cook.

[achillesthegreat]

Burley was good and awkward but beatable.

Leonard beats him like he did Benitez.
Robinson beats him a little like DLH did Pea but better.
Hearns beats him like he did Benitez.
Duran beats him like he did Leonard.

Burley had the footwork, the head movement and he caught shots so it was hard to land.

[mcvey]

What footage is available of the guy? I might even have some here somewhere in which case i'd better have a Captain Cook.
I have him doing a number on Benvenuti ,then getting caught and kod.