View Full Version : ATG Carlos Monzon
Marciano Frazier
08-11-2007, 10:11 PM
#1.
salsanchezfan
08-11-2007, 10:25 PM
#1 middleweight ever, as far as I'm concerned.
#1 middleweight ever, as far as I'm concerned.:D :good
JohnThomas1
08-11-2007, 11:12 PM
First or second achievement based at 160. First prolly.
Among middleweights, I gotta respect his repeated accomplishments with decisive wins against top competition in their respective primes, usually more than once. I'd even argue that Emile Griffith was still in his prime despite being a natural welterweight and getting on in years. Griffith was one of those physical phenoms like Hopkins and Foreman who just didn't seem to age.
So, today at least, I'll go with Monzon as #1 middleweight. Tomorrow I might go with my sentimental favorite, Gene Fullmer.
Monzon P4P? That's a toughie. I mean, I think George Foreman's style would give Monzon's style trouble. But Monzon would give someone with Ali's style trouble. OTOH, I'm not sure Monzon was quick enough for Whitaker or PBF. On the third hand, a hypothetical Monzon beats a hypothetical Joe Louis, but not a hypothetical Marciano. He gives a prime Holyfield fits but has trouble with Michael Spinks, who's as awkward as Monzon. He KO's a theoretical Carbajal but gets rocked by a theoretical Salvador Sanchez.
I hate P4P lists.
salsanchezfan
08-12-2007, 12:19 AM
Among middleweights, I gotta respect his repeated accomplishments with decisive wins against top competition in their respective primes, usually more than once. I'd even argue that Emile Griffith was still in his prime despite being a natural welterweight and getting on in years. Griffith was one of those physical phenoms like Hopkins and Foreman who just didn't seem to age.
So, today at least, I'll go with Monzon as #1 middleweight. Tomorrow I might go with my sentimental favorite, Gene Fullmer.
Monzon P4P? That's a toughie. I mean, I think George Foreman's style would give Monzon's style trouble. But Monzon would give someone with Ali's style trouble. OTOH, I'm not sure Monzon was quick enough for Whitaker or PBF. On the third hand, a hypothetical Monzon beats a hypothetical Joe Louis, but not a hypothetical Marciano. He gives a prime Holyfield fits but has trouble with Michael Spinks, who's as awkward as Monzon. He KO's a theoretical Carbajal but gets rocked by a theoretical Salvador Sanchez.
I hate P4P lists.
........It made me dizzy to read that. Usually the sign of a good post. :D
brooklyn1550
08-12-2007, 12:27 AM
#3 at middleweight - behind Greb and Hagler
red cobra
08-12-2007, 09:04 AM
Easily the best of all time. Just look at the record. He was undefeated for the last 13 years of his career, reversed his only 3 defeats, which were all decisions, by the way, and did all of that while basically defying the rules of boxing. He smoked 2 packs a day, sometimes even after roadwork. He didn't engage in sparring "wars", instead concentrating on certain aspects of defense, or strategy. His volcanic, and from what I have read, really scary temper he kept under ice during a bout, and was basically cold blooded and calculating in action, which is most unusual for a Latin fighter. I've heard all sides, but I still maintain that Monzon was the best.
redrooster
08-12-2007, 11:13 AM
He was #1....in his time. You know every athlete has their critics.
Street Lethal
08-12-2007, 11:22 AM
I haven't thought about it. #1 is too high at middleweight.
robert ungurean
08-12-2007, 12:38 PM
#3 at middleweight - behind Greb and Hagler
At this time I aggree with you.
McGrain
08-12-2007, 09:11 PM
Top five for me but I won't say unquestionabley.
There are so many incredible fighters in this division.
I guess he'd be my #2 post war.
brownpimp88
08-12-2007, 10:08 PM
I prefer to rank monzon higher than duran and i dont care if people disagree with me. The fact is monzon beat more 'great' or good fighters and his middleweight title run was more impressive than duran's lightweight title run. The 168 division didnt exist in monzon's days, and if i remember correctly he was a middleweight during the 'golden age' of the light-heavyweight division. I mean foster was champ during the first half of his title run, galindez was champ during the 2nd half, so yeah it wouldnt have been easy for him to become a multiple time champ. So, monzon being a 1 division champ is irrelevant to me.
C. M. Clay II
08-13-2007, 12:55 AM
I have him #2 under Robby.:good
Fedor Em
08-13-2007, 01:40 AM
#2 ATG Middleweight, only behind Greb. Top 20 all time p4p fighter
Nick Balsamo
08-13-2007, 10:22 AM
No.2 at MW, right behind Hagler but before Harry Greb.
Boring to watch but so effective. Tall, rangy, hard, patient and mean. He dissected them one after another.
Manassa
08-13-2007, 10:24 AM
#1 of course.
Holmes' Jab
08-13-2007, 10:27 AM
#3, behind Hagler and Greb.
........It made me dizzy to read that... :D
Yeh, I make myself dizzy with my tortuous illogic.:worm:rofl
So you rank P4P on how one fighter would do in a head to head matchup with another of a different weight class were they the same size? I don't try that shit at all. I rank it on how successful they are for their weight class/size.
Well... I try... but I don't succeed. :bart
King Dan
08-13-2007, 03:52 PM
#2 ATG Middleweight, only behind Greb. Top 20 all time p4p fighter
This is correct.
TBooze
08-13-2007, 03:54 PM
#1 all time at Middleweight
#12 all time pound for pound
King Dan
08-13-2007, 03:54 PM
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Ring Magazine Greatest of Last 80 Years:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
King Dan
08-13-2007, 03:55 PM
I made Chava the biggest b/c he is the greatest, ever, in my opinion. :D
TBooze
08-13-2007, 04:06 PM
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Ring Magazine Greatest of Last 80 Years:
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
16. Jack Dempsey
Something is not right there;)
TBooze
08-13-2007, 04:09 PM
Agreed, Greb is certainly too low, what were they thinking?
I was thinking Greb has the disadvantage of being dead for the last 80 years, his resume is 0-0-0-0 for the time period of the ratings....
McGrain
08-13-2007, 04:12 PM
I was thinking Greb has the disadvantage of being dead for the last 80 years, is resume 0-0-0-0....
:lol:
I predict his unbeaten streak will continue
:lol:
King Dan
08-13-2007, 04:15 PM
The list was created in 2002, so it's ok.
King Dan
08-13-2007, 04:17 PM
He died Oct 22 1926
TBooze
08-13-2007, 04:23 PM
The list was made in 2002, and I assume they were just taking into consideration any fighter who had fought since then's whole career.
Well Jack Johnson, Sammy Langford, Georges Carpentier, Charley Burley and Gene Tunney all fought in 1922 or later....
It is opinion, but The Ring seems a bit slack with their research if your hypothesis is true...
McGrain
08-13-2007, 04:27 PM
Tunney is on the list, otherwise you're correct, although Carpentier probably wouldn't have even made it anyways.
You could present a reasonable argument for Langford being at #1 though, so it does kind of undermine things a wee bit.
TBooze
08-13-2007, 04:28 PM
Tunney is on the list, otherwise you're correct, although Carpentier probably wouldn't have even made it anyways.
I am going blind, where is Tunney? I cannot see his name
TBooze
08-13-2007, 04:31 PM
He ranks #30, go to the link.
Oh well, he is not on the list on the thread... Glad I do not need glasses yet!
Stonehands89
08-13-2007, 05:31 PM
#2 MW.
Head-to-head, I see only Hagler beating him, with Robinson at 50/50.
My dinner with Conteh
08-13-2007, 07:20 PM
#1 all time at Middleweight
#12 all time pound for pound
I agree with both (although I may have him higher pfp).
mcvey
08-13-2007, 07:51 PM
How do you rank him ?
I cant see how he can be out of anybodys top 4 at 160,his style turned me off,but you cant argue with his record,I saw him once he was working the corner of Carlos Herrera against Maurice Hope,he didnt look very big ,in track bottoms and top ,tall but slim,his weight looked to be all in his top half.
My dinner with Conteh
08-13-2007, 09:03 PM
I cant see how he can be out of anybodys top 4 at 160,his style turned me off,but you cant argue with his record,I saw him once he was working the corner of Carlos Herrera against Maurice Hope,he didnt look very big ,in track bottoms and top ,tall but slim,his weight looked to be all in his top half.
Hope-Herrera was a great fight.
mcvey
08-13-2007, 09:08 PM
Hope-Herrera was a great fight.
Youre not wrong there a real struggle.
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