Bautista - Classic example of Grade A China.

[Amsterdam]

People often ask "what exactly constitutes a china chin over a plain glass chin?".

Well, there you have it people, a guy who can't even make it out of the first round and the amazing part is how many people didn't see this one coming and were in high praise of Bautista. That's got to be embarassing considering the commentators mentioned that there were screens everywhere in Bautista's hometown, I feel bad for the kid a little bit.

:yep :yep

Amir Khan's time is coming really soon also.:yep :good

[brooklyn1550]

Let's be fair, he was facing a BIG puncher, but his chin is very shaky nonetheless

[teetop]

People often ask "what exactly constitutes a china chin over a plain glass chin?".

Well, there you have it people, a guy who can't even make it out of the first round and the amazing part is how many people didn't see this one coming and were in high praise of Bautista. That's got to be embarassing considering the commentators mentioned that there were screens everywhere in Bautista's hometown, I feel bad for the kid a little bit.

:yep :yep

Amir Khan's time is coming really soon also.:yep :good

Amsterdam, you are a complete dipshit. deleon is a HUGE puncher who landed a perfectly straight left right on the button. Anyone would've gotten hurt from that shot off ponce. Think before you post dude.

[jonesjrp4p1]

i forgot the fight was on what happened?

[Boom_Boom]

Amir Khan's time is coming really soon also.:yep :good

Not in anytime soon he just singed to fight some dude with a horrible KO %

F'N Frank ******

[digiram]

i forgot the fight was on what happened?

1st rnd. ktfo

[jonesjrp4p1]

1st rnd. ktfo


haha jhonny gonzalez got tkod in the 7th to hahaha

[hellblazer]

what's purpose of this thread? the young kid just got k.o'd and you're bashing him already. grow up Amsterdamn!!

[brooklyn1550]

Bautista needs more experience....I wish the kid success in the future

[Amsterdam]

Amsterdam, you are a complete dipshit. deleon is a HUGE puncher who landed a perfectly straight left right on the button. Anyone would've gotten hurt from that shot off ponce. Think before you post dude.

Oh yeah, same old "that punch woulda KOed anybody" routine. I'm sorry mate, but the first flush sat down shot that Ponce landed basically put him out on his feet, Ponce has a wonderful KO percentage, but in truth he normally stops guys on volume, not with 2 or 3 shots.

The kid obviously can't take a World Class punch, but this was well evident in his fight with Medina, whom also nearly finished him off, people will never learn however....

Punch resistance is very important.

[Amsterdam]

Let's be fair, he was facing a BIG puncher, but his chin is very shaky nonetheless

Ponce's KO percentage is mostly volume stoppages, the guy throws a lot of punches... and let's be real Brooklyn, the first flush counter shot that Ponce landed truthfully ended this bout... this kid's chin is far worse than shaky, it's Grade A China.

[splatter69]

I'll hold off on rating this chin a bit. He was under alot of pressure and looked too tight. Not to mention the fact that Ponce hits like a truck.
I'm actually surprised he got himself together enough to even continue.

[Sonny Carson]

Oh yeah, same old "that punch woulda KOed anybody" routine. I'm sorry mate, but the first flush sat down shot that Ponce landed basically put him out on his feet, Ponce has a wonderful KO percentage, but in truth he normally stops guys on volume, not with 2 or 3 shots.

The kid obviously can't take a World Class punch, but this was well evident in his fight with Medina, whom also nearly finished him off, people will never learn however....

Punch resistance is very important.
Agreed he was hurt by Medina who was not a big puncher. And he couldn't even go 5 with De Leon so yeah he has a glass chin. Cabelerro took all of Ponce's punches.

[Shpion]

People often ask "what exactly constitutes a china chin over a plain glass chin?".

Well, there you have it people, a guy who can't even make it out of the first round and the amazing part is how many people didn't see this one coming and were in high praise of Bautista. That's got to be embarassing considering the commentators mentioned that there were screens everywhere in Bautista's hometown, I feel bad for the kid a little bit.

:yep :yep

Amir Khan's time is coming really soon also.:yep :good

Yep. I actually noticed it in his last fight. It was just a matter of time for him.

[Amsterdam]

I'll hold off on rating this chin a bit. He was under alot of pressure and looked too tight. Not to mention the fact that Ponce hits like a truck.
I'm actually surprised he got himself together enough to even continue.

Ponce definitley can crack, but he's not normally a 1 punch KO guy, he throws a lot of punches and stops guys that way, this one was nearly a 1 punch KO.

Ponce hits good, but his volume power is even better, let's not look completely into the KO percentage.

But Bautista will likely get KOed easily again by an even lesser hitter, fully cementing this chin rating that I've given him, even though it's sad that people are even fighting back with the old "that punch would have KOed anybody" line, after something as definitive as this and knowing that Ponce normally lands a good bit of shots on lesser opponents before finishing them off... I've seen plenty of Ponce's opponents eat a lot of shots just like the one he landed on Bautista and it still takes a couple of rounds to grind them down.

[Amsterdam]

Agreed he was hurt by Medina who was not a big puncher. And he couldn't even go 5 with De Leon so yeah he has a glass chin. Cabelerro took all of Ponce's punches.

Exactly Sonny Carson, Ponce is an effective volume hitter more so than a true 1 punch KO guy, his KO percentage is really nice but that's not all there is to look into.

The Medina fight really exposed Bautista, how anyone picked Bautista against an even better fighter is beyond me, but I did love the thread about "Can Bautista compete with Vasquez and Marquez?"...

Sure, for about 20 seconds!:yep

[Asterion]

Ponce De Leon just marked Bautista's destiny. The kid will never be a great fighter. Great fighters, in the modern era, just don't get knocked out in the first round. Bautista may recover and become a strong contender, but he'll never be a really great fighter.

[Ethan Trims]

Ponce definitley can crack, but he's not normally a 1 punch KO guy, he throws a lot of punches and stops guys that way, this one was nearly a 1 punch KO.

Ponce hits good, but his volume power is even better, let's not look completely into the KO percentage.

But Bautista will likely get KOed easily again by an even lesser hitter, fully cementing this chin rating that I've given him, even though it's sad that people are even fighting back with the old "that punch would have KOed anybody" line, after something as definitive as this and knowing that Ponce normally lands a good bit of shots on lesser opponents before finishing them off... I've seen plenty of Ponce's opponents eat a lot of shots just like the one he landed on Bautista and it still takes a couple of rounds to grind them down.

If you dont consider ponce to be a 1 punch Ko guy then give an example of a guy who is cause I dont know if anyone would qualify for your standards.

[Chileno606]

Amir Khan's time is coming really soon also.:yep :good

:yep:lol:

[a.arthur.h]

He's young, definately doesn't have a very good chin, but he's still got to grow up. They rushed the kid along WAY too fast. He shouldn't have been anywhere near Ponce De Leon. I thought this one was going to end early, probably by an accidental headbutt.

Figured that De Leon would have wanted to rush in and try to finish it early to "avenge" his last performance. Was suprised that Bautista just wasn't able to do much. Thought he would at least be competitive for a few rounds before it was stopped on a cut, TKO or TD.

Congrats to Daniel Ponce De Leon. Never thought Bautista wouldn't be able to make it out of the first :scaredas:. Poor kid, I was rooting for him too :-(.

[Chileno606]

i forgot the fight was on what happened?
Forgot?...FORGOT?.....what kind of boxing fan are you? :blood


:reggie

[Chileno606]

Bautista has the lateral movement of a cow. :patsch

[Toopretty]

Bautista did a Zab. His chin is grade A china from the 12th century. Fragile as I dont know what. He should of let Ponce Gas out trying to knock him out with one punch and he had to know his chin is suspect.

[Chileno606]

.
Bautista was into a lot of pressure ... He's facing a tough opponent... All his 5 teammates won their respective fights ... He is the Team Captain of Team Philippines ... Big responsibility on his shoulder ... He was nervous entering the ring for the biggest fight of his career ...

Hope he can recover soon ...

Co-signed.:nod

[Amsterdam]

If you dont consider ponce to be a 1 punch Ko guy then give an example of a guy who is cause I dont know if anyone would qualify for your standards.

Rafael Marquez/Israel Vasquez
Darnell Wilson
David Haye
Kermit Cintron
Rocky Jaurez(has the power, just is lazy)
Edwin Valero
Alejandro Berrio

Good?

[teetop]

Ponce definitley can crack, but he's not normally a 1 punch KO guy, he throws a lot of punches and stops guys that way, this one was nearly a 1 punch KO.

Ponce hits good, but his volume power is even better, let's not look completely into the KO percentage.

But Bautista will likely get KOed easily again by an even lesser hitter, fully cementing this chin rating that I've given him, even though it's sad that people are even fighting back with the old "that punch would have KOed anybody" line, after something as definitive as this and knowing that Ponce normally lands a good bit of shots on lesser opponents before finishing them off... I've seen plenty of Ponce's opponents eat a lot of shots just like the one he landed on Bautista and it still takes a couple of rounds to grind them down.

Not a 1 punch hitter. Then I guess you guys missed the thai fighter that was knocked cold with a right hand in the 1st round of another
deleon fight. Ponce is a real PUNCHER. Not a volume guy. Geez!!

[Amsterdam]

Not a 1 punch hitter. Then I guess you guys missed the thai fighter that was knocked cold with a right hand in the 1st round of another
deleon fight. Ponce is a real PUNCHER. Not a volume guy. Geez!!

So some journeyman equivalent Thai fighter with a china chin getting taken out in the first somehow makes Bautista's chin look "okay" as well?:yep

[Ethan Trims]

Rafael Marquez/Israel Vasquez
Darnell Wilson
David Haye
Kermit Cintron
Rocky Jaurez(has the power, just is lazy)
Edwin Valero
Alejandro Berrio

Good?

You have vasquez up there but no leon?

Maybe bautista is grade a china but he faced a one punch Ko guy tonight.


An accumalative puncher would be Miguel Cotto or juan diaz, and when leon sits on his punches hes much more dangerous p4p.

[Amsterdam]

You have vasquez up there but no leon?

Maybe bautista is grade a china but he faced a one punch Ko guy tonight.


An accumalative puncher would be Miguel Cotto or juan diaz, and when leon sits on his punches hes much more dangerous p4p.

Of course, Vasquez has iced guys who have proven solid punch resistance, not to mention more than a few elite fighters. De Leon couldn't put a dent in Penalosa(this guy has a great chin, but a Marquez or a Vasquez would take him out) and couldn't put a dent in Caballero(who has an average chin).

De Leon has good power, but he's really more volume oriented with his stoppage wins.

[Morrissey]

Just saw the fight, and I have to agree with Ams this time.

No doubt, Bautista is a certified china-chinned guy.

[J_Roth]

Bautista may have a future in boxing yet. However he better learn to tuck his chin. That thing is grade a china. In the words of Derrick. That was an egg chin.

[SOUTHERMOST]

Round one the worst for anybody Bautista was cold Lennox made the comment I would like to see him vs Vasquez.

[theunderdog]

i told you guys so! boomboom's chin won't hold up and the miserable people who made a thread about him matching up against marquez and vasquez were fucking dreaming. you guys know started that thread? he should be shamed. overhyped pinoy fighter. much like jaca against jmm. but i wish the kid well, i hope boomboom recovers. he's really young but the thing is a great chin can't be taught. he just doesnt have it. he should concentrate on not getting hit

way to go gerry!!! you freaking deserve it.

[nervousxtian]

Amsterdam is a douchebag, ignore him.

He can't ever give the guy doing the punching credit, nope it's always the fucking chin with him.

Amsterdam ain't shit, he's nothing but a damn keyboard toughguy.

[boxbox]

a little above china imo, plus against a power puncher, it doesn't make it glass or else its like underrating ponces punching power

[Ethan Trims]

Of course, Vasquez has iced guys who have proven solid punch resistance, not to mention more than a few elite fighters. De Leon couldn't put a dent in Penalosa(this guy has a great chin, but a Marquez or a Vasquez would take him out) and couldn't put a dent in Caballero(who has an average chin).

De Leon has good power, but he's really more volume oriented with his stoppage wins.

So vasquez doesnt have any UD wins on his record? I just looked and out of 40 wins he has around 10 UD. De leon has a better KO Percentage at this point then him and almost better than marquez

I will agree that De Leon has inferior technique and timing compared to Vasquez, but as for power he is in his league.

Oh and that Thai guy that almost had his head torn of by de leon in the 1st Sod Looknongyangtoy ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) was never Tko/Ko'd in his 30 fights before that.


All in all, I would put De Leon's straight left in the same league with Marquez's right, and Vasquez's left hook.

[Circa]

ponce is a monster puncher...

but still i agree... boomboom is a glass-chinned guy

[Amsterdam]

So vasquez doesnt have any UD wins on his record? I just looked and out of 40 wins he has around 10 UD. De leon has a better KO Percentage at this point then him and almost better than marquez

I will agree that De Leon has inferior technique and timing compared to Vasquez, but as for power he is in his league.

Oh and that Thai guy that almost had his head torn of by de leon in the 1st Sod Looknongyangtoy ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) was never Tko/Ko'd in his 30 fights before that.


All in all, I would put De Leon's straight left in the same league with Marquez's right, and Vasquez's left hook.

KO percentage doesn't always reflect true KO power. Vitali Klitschko has 34 KO's out of 35 wins, that's a near perfect percentage, but he is not a 1 punch KO guy, he breaks you down over the course of the fight.

[nervousxtian]

Yeah, it's always the fucking chin, never the puncher.

Gotcha. You need some serious help.

[Amsterdam]

Amsterdam is a douchebag, ignore him.

He can't ever give the guy doing the punching credit, nope it's always the fucking chin with him.

Amsterdam ain't shit, he's nothing but a damn keyboard toughguy.

I give credit where credit is due, note that I predicted this to happen, an early Ponce KO. This is something that I expected and I claimed to all of Bautista's fans that the kid could not take a big league shot, so where am I not giving anyone credit?

Ponce is a very average fighter for a top 10 ranked guy, he has good power but nothing in the region of the punch KO power that Vasquez and Marquez have.

If I'm not shit when it comes to boxing talk, then why were most people surprised by the result tonight, yet I was predicting it boldly?:yep

Also, a keyboard toughguy I am not, I come here to discuss boxing, boldly yes, but in normal fashion, you just don't like the hard brutal facts and that's okay, but you have no grounds to call me a douchebag.

[Amsterdam]

Yeah, it's always the fucking chin, never the puncher.

Gotcha. You need some serious help.

Well, someone not lasting after the first sat down flush shot is more indicative of a bad chin more so. A lot of people call that Rafael Marquez has a "shaky" chin due to all of his losses being by KO, I however debate that fact because in Marquez's last bout, Vasquez had to grind him down and Marquez ate many of his best shots before being stopped...

Marquez does not have a great chin, but it's solid enough for his purposes and to defeat Vasquez in the rubber match he'll just need a better game plan.

Now, do you not recognise the difference there? Marquez being KOed was indicative of Vasquez's excellent punching power, considering how proven Marquez is as an elite level P4P type fighter and to be on that level, you need a workable chin by default.

Bautista being out essentially after the first sat down flush shot is indicative more so towards his awful chin, which was already exposed by a relatively non-hitting fighter in Medina in his last bout as not so solid, it was no surprise that Ponce ended him as early as the first, some of us even predicted it.

[jecxbox]

Feeding a baby to a lion, his brain is too fresh and young to take that punch to the chin. His brain cells got violently raped, what a mismatch in strength.

[theHawtness]

that's pretty harsh dude. nonetheless, i expect him to lose, maybe KO in the later rounds and up until that point, a toe to toe match. guess i was wrong. im fuckin disappointed.

[1punch1nder]

all i can say is he is too young and fought plenty of patsys in his carrier...

[Carlos Primera]

damn i'm feeling foolish right now. i thought bautista could have made this a fight as he seemed like a good prospect. i even leaned a bit on him just for being more technically sound. but damn this fight cements his chin rating as grade A china. he was in trouble of getting stopped against medina, was floored in that bout he had in telefutura, the slaughter by de leon just erased all doubt. he just got thrown in with a beast to quickly. i agree hype job khan will be the next to fall.

[huki]

I think that Ponce De Leon will connect a punch to Bautista's chin and he will go down. Repeat 2-3 times because of Bautista's heart and the result will be KO5. Simple as that. I don't know what Bautista's team was thinking putting him in with a huge puncher so fast.
I put all 500 of my vcash and some real money on it too. :happy I don't know how anyone that watched the Medina fight could think that Bautista would even be able to go 6 rounds with Ponce De Leon. My initial reaction was excitement and laughter. Now, 2 hours after, I'm still happy but I feel sorry for Bautista. All that raw talent with offensive skill, but a shitty defense with a horrible chin. His chin is THAT bad. Also, all the people that keep saying "he's young.. he still has time" in every thread need to realize that a horrible chin is a horrible chin. He will only be able to take titles away from light punchers for the rest of his career. It's a sad fact, but it is the truth.

[theDUD3]

bautista's chin maybe suspect but you can't deny the kid's got heart, everytime he was knocked down he tried to get up and continue and that quality tells me he will be back stonger and wiser.

[Decebal]

People often stop to ask me: "Amsterdam, what exactly constitutes a china chin over a plain glass chin?".
...Well, Oprah...

;)

[koko of phil]

This thread is obviously a basher. I can say the threadstarter's nuts is bouncing so hard with ecstacy even on the first knockdown. :yep

I agree the kid's chin is glassy, but do we need to concentrate on that? Cmon mate, Bautista got starched, so be it.

[Decebal]

This thread is obviously a basher. I can say the threadstarter's nuts is bouncing so hard with ecstacy even on the first knockdown. :yep

I agree the kid's chin is glassy, but do we need to concentrate on that? Cmon mate, Bautista got starched, so be it.

Come on, man! Amsterdam is a damn fine analyst; since when has a bit of post-fight gloating been considered over-the-top here on ESB?

[achillesthegreat]

Dam, you are such a cock.

[koko of phil]

Come on, man! Amsterdam is a damn fine analyst; since when has a bit of post-fight gloating been considered over-the-top here on ESB?

I guess not this time. :nono

[Decebal]

Dam, you are such a cock.

Why am I such a cock?:huh

[Amsterdam]

Dam, you are such a cock.

I said I felt bad for him.:|

[achillesthegreat]

Why am I such a cock?:huh
Dam means AmsterDAM!

[El Bombasto]

big puncher + deer in the headlights = 1st round blowout

[Boom_Boom]

but those who say hes ruined

think John Ruiz-David Tua

[El Bombasto]

but those who say hes ruined

think John Ruiz-David Tua

bautista's gonna start humping his opponents?

[juancho214]

haha jhonny gonzalez got tkod in the 7th to hahaha

and who brought that up?wait your a bautista fan:patsch

[The Italarican]

So some journeyman equivalent Thai fighter with a china chin getting taken out in the first somehow makes Bautista's chin look "okay" as well?:yep

Come on, that's just ignorant. I'm with you on Bautista's chin because that shot didn't look as vicious as what I've seen from De Leon, but Looknangyantoy is no journeyman and had already gone a full 12 with De Leon.

Someone who is a china chin gets wobbled easy... when a punch knocks someone completely limp and unconscious before they hit the ground, that's something else. That's 1 punch KO power.

KNul7NMr8oI

[RDJ]

Bautista has the lateral movement of a cow. :patsch

His lateral movement was phenomenal when he fell along the ropes towards the canvas.

[emanuel_augustus]

Oh yeah, same old "that punch woulda KOed anybody" routine. I'm sorry mate, but the first flush sat down shot that Ponce landed basically put him out on his feet, Ponce has a wonderful KO percentage, but in truth he normally stops guys on volume, not with 2 or 3 shots.

The kid obviously can't take a World Class punch, but this was well evident in his fight with Medina, whom also nearly finished him off, people will never learn however....

Punch resistance is very important.


He's young, it was his first big event and he got caught in the headlights. You could see it in his eyes the first time he was hit he was in trouble.

But, it makes no sense to label him "china chin" off of one early ko. It's not uncommon for a young fighter to get caught cold in their first spotlight bout.

Give Bautista a chance.

[Jinx]

Bautista's chin looks glass to me...and De Leon's power is overrated...Vasquez or Marquez would severly rape De Leon...

[Galaxy]

his got the same chin as Trinidad. the difference is that the kid doesn't know how to survive when the gets hurt. he needs to hold, run or throw some low blows(ala tito) when he get caught clean. when he get taged cleanly he seems to just freeze.

[splatter69]

Originally Posted by Amsterdam
Ponce definitley can crack, but he's not normally a 1 punch KO guy, he throws a lot of punches and stops guys that way, this one was nearly a 1 punch KO.

Ponce hits good, but his volume power is even better, let's not look completely into the KO percentage.

But Bautista will likely get KOed easily again by an even lesser hitter, fully cementing this chin rating that I've given him, even though it's sad that people are even fighting back with the old "that punch would have KOed anybody" line, after something as definitive as this and knowing that Ponce normally lands a good bit of shots on lesser opponents before finishing them off... I've seen plenty of Ponce's opponents eat a lot of shots just like the one he landed on Bautista and it still takes a couple of rounds to grind them down.


Come on, that's just ignorant. I'm with you on Bautista's chin because that shot didn't look as vicious as what I've seen from De Leon, but Looknangyantoy is no journeyman and had already gone a full 12 with De Leon.

Someone who is a china chin gets wobbled easy... when a punch knocks someone completely limp and unconscious before they hit the ground, that's something else. That's 1 punch KO power.

KNul7NMr8oI

I also agree that he has 1 punch power. In the beginning of the vid you posted it lists his 1st 2nd and 3rd round KO/TKOs as of that fight. I went to boxrec and wrote down the latest numbers.

1st round KO/TKO 10
2nd round KO/TKO 5
3rd round KO/TKO 5
4th round KO/TKO 3

Thats 23 KO/TKO's in 4 rounds or less out of his 29 wins by KO/TKO

That and the shot in the vid was just sick. Sod went the distance with him a few fights prior to that making the KO he suffered in the vid Italarican posted above his only KO loss in 33 fights. Looking at boxrec they have the 1st Ponce/Sod fight scored :

109/118
112/115
112/115

I missed that fight myself. How was it? the one score seems off but like I said I havent seen it. Anyone have any info on it?

Anyway I think Ponce has legitimate 1 punch KO power in my opinion.

[nervousxtian]

The first fight was pretty close actually. 115-112 was probably the right score, I remember pulling for the thai guy in that fight, and it was a really competitive close fight.

Funny thing is, that was during the whole Mexico vs Thai cup thing a few years back.

[jonesjrp4p1]

Forgot?...FORGOT?.....what kind of boxing fan are you? :blood


:reggie


i didnt forget but when i went and played bball i forgot what time it was on

[TanstA]

Ponce De Leon just marked Bautista's destiny. The kid will never be a great fighter. Great fighters, in the modern era, just don't get knocked out in the first round. Bautista may recover and become a strong contender, but he'll never be a really great fighter.

I second that

[nervousxtian]

Whoever thought he was going to be "great"? I mean other than the Pinoys?