Rodrigo Valdez vs GMAN

[WhataRock]

Im sure this has been done before..but we'll do it again.

This would be a seriously brutal fight...both with good chins, both with serious power.

Who is your pick and why?

[natonic]

Gerald McClellan? If so, I think Valdez was a much better technician and would eventually stop him late.

[Minotauro]

You posted the exact same thread in the general forum. Anyway in that one I picked Valdez.

[WhataRock]

Yeah I agree...its not all one way traffic but I think Gerald would be confused by the shorter Valdez crowding him and Rodrigo had the by far more proven chin going a combined 64 rounds with Briscoe and Monzon.

I dont reckon Gman has the skill to keep Valdez away and would get broken down eventually.

With all respect to Gerald if he had a predisposition to getting those head injuries this is a fight I certainly feel could make them manifest.

[WhataRock]

I just wanted to gauge the response from the general forum on this one Mino..hence thats why I made two..Me thinks Gman will get more picks because he is more well known then Rodrigo, which seems to be a trait of the average general poster.

Thats if anyone else posts in it :lol:...I forgot to add a poll...I swear Ive edited a thread and added a poll after, cant seem to do that now..probably never could.

[red cobra]

Valdez, for those not yet born in the 70's, and for all the revisionists, was a far superior fighter than Nigel Benn who was superior to the GMAN. He would have outboxed, then dispatched him with the same power that destroyed Bennie Briscoe and even put the great Monzon down in their rematch. Rodrigo Valdez was catlike, like a panther, and had there been no Monzon, would have been an alltime great middleweight champion.

[WhataRock]

Rodrigo Valdez was catlike, like a panther, and had there been no Monzon, would have been an alltime great middleweight champion.


Ya reckon....I dont know..He was apparently well beaten by Corro in their fights.

I would think if not Corro...Antuofermo would have foiled his chance at a longer reign and lets not forget Hagler wasnt far away either

No doubting he was a very good fighter though...if he had caught most other middleweights in the twilight of their career like he did Monzon he would have beaten them most likely...Carlos just had to much greatness left in him.

[natonic]

I understand your posting on the General Forum and then maybe trying to get a different take over here. I just exited out of a Leonard - Mayweather thread. Some of it is pure blasphemy, lol.

Anyway, concerning Valdez, I haven't seen any footage against Corro, but my understanding is that he was a little past best by then. I think prime for prime he'd get the better of Vito too. Jusy my opinion.

[red cobra]

Ya reckon....I dont know..He was apparently well beaten by Corro in their fights.

I would think if not Corro...Antuofermo would have foiled his chance at a longer reign and lets not forget Hagler wasnt far away either

No doubting he was a very good fighter though...if he had caught most other middleweights in the twilight of their career like he did Monzon he would have beaten them most likely...Carlos just had to much greatness left in him.
Corro was a good fighter himself, and underrated, I may add, but he was very lucky to be facing a spent force by then in Valdez. The two fights with Monzon ruined him, you might say, and he was the perfect foil for Corro's safety first defensive style, as he had the perfect fight plan to take advantage of the suddenly old Valdez. Low rating Valdez on the basis of his two decision losses to Corro is like judging Sugar Ray Leonard on the basis of his tko loss to Hector Camacho at the end of his career. In their primes, neither Corro or Antuofermo would have had no chance against Rodrigo Valdez. He would have stopped either one of them.

[JohnThomas1]

Low rating Valdez on the basis of his two decision losses to Corro is like judging Sugar Ray Leonard on the basis of his tko loss to Hector Camacho at the end of his career. In their primes, neither Corro or Antuofermo would have had no chance against Rodrigo Valdez. He would have stopped either one of them.

I don't like the comparison at all myself. Leonard was more than 40 years old and hadn't fought for 6 years.

Valdez by comparision was still active, was just 31 and had beaten Bennie Briscoe just 4 months before fighting Corrie :yikes

Valdez was world champ mate.

I will buy that Valdez was aged and slowing and Corrie was a bad style at that time. I've seen Corrie feature heavily in nominations for worst Middleweight champion ever, actually.

This might have been better compared to Leonard - Norris if anything.

[Mantequilla]

Valdez had a real struggle with Robles mobile boxing as well.It just wasn't a good style for him, as he couldn't cut the ring off and just tended to plod after fighters.His jab was not much of a weapon either, so he couldn't pinch points against someone mobile too easily.

[JohnThomas1]

Valdez had a real struggle with Robles mobile boxing as well.It just wasn't a good style for him, as he couldn't cut the ring off and just tended to plod after fighters.His jab was not much of a weapon either, so he couldn't pinch points against someone mobile too easily.


So Corrie would have given him trouble at any career point, possibly winning?

[Mantequilla]

I think he would have made him look bad for sure.A younger Valdez should be able to win though.Corro was extremely easy to discourage, the only fight i saw of him where he really fought with balls was against Ronnie Harris, who choked in front of the volatile argentine crowd.

[red cobra]

I don't like the comparison at all myself. Leonard was more than 40 years old and hadn't fought for 6 years.

Valdez by comparision was still active, was just 31 and had beaten Bennie Briscoe just 4 months before fighting Corrie :yikes

Valdez was world champ mate.

I will buy that Valdez was aged and slowing and Corrie was a bad style at that time. I've seen Corrie feature heavily in nominations for worst Middleweight champion ever, actually.

This might have been better compared to Leonard - Norris if anything. Valdez was a spent force after Monzon. He was never the same again. Some figters were like that, suddenly not having it any more. The pre-Monzon Valdez would have destroyed Corro, or Vito Antuofermo. Valdez would have been far more impressive against Vito than was Hagler because he was so much harder a hitter than Marvin. Corro wasn't as bad as the "experts" say he was, just a safety first type of figter who knew his limitations. Also, note how Valdez had to go 15 to win a hum-drum 15 round decision over Briscoe to win the vacant title after Monzon retired, whereas 3 years earlier he dazzled and then destroyed Bennie with one big punch. Monzon and Valdez took everything out of each other, somewhat like Ali and Frazier after the Thrilla. Speaking of Leonard and the comparison regarding the Camacho beating, you can even go back a few years earlier to the Terry Norris trouncing, which, I still maintain, wouldn't have happened in the years '81 thru '85, before Leonard's slide began. You can't hold the Norris loss against Leonard, just like you can't disregard Valdez for losing to Corro.

[Ted Spoon]

Before Gerald started to soak up the heavy punishment against Benn, the see-saw lateral movements of Nigel off-set his output in a big way and Valdez was rather good at that routine; sharp dips and a tight guard.

Valdez likely had a better grasp of the necessary fundamentals to catch McClellans big guns and reply back with the shorter, sharper punches. Gerald was not great at creating openings and that would cost him with Valdez winning the shootout.

[JohnThomas1]

Valdez was a spent force after Monzon. He was never the same again. Some figters were like that, suddenly not having it any more.

I wouldn't say he was a spent force, perhaps more a worn one like a Larry Holmes by the Spinks fight. Both fought stylistic drama's.

The pre-Monzon Valdez would have destroyed Corro, or Vito Antuofermo.

Bearing in mind Mantequilla's insightful comments i disagree per Corro. The most difficult style for Valdez was obviously going to be movers. Corrie would have been a bit of a pain.

Valdez would have been far more impressive against Vito than was Hagler because he was so much harder a hitter than Marvin.

Yes, and Vito would have been right in front of him. Awkward bugger tho.

Also, note how Valdez had to go 15 to win a hum-drum 15 round decision over Briscoe to win the vacant title after Monzon retired, whereas 3 years earlier he dazzled and then destroyed Bennie with one big punch.

We need to dig deeper here tho. The Briscoe KO was one of those very rare things that happen every so often, like SRR's KO of Fullmer. This was the only time Briscoe was ko'd i think (despite fighting way past prime), and don't forget Briscoe went the full 12 with him prior to the KO fight too. The second fight stoppage was never going to be the norm, but the freakish exception. I myself wouldn't hold this up as proof Valdez was over the hill. Briscoe was one tough SOB. To stop him in their second fight was fantastic.

Also, i have the second fight and thought Bennie did his fair share of good work, not sure i'd agree he was dazzled. Great fight.

Monzon and Valdez took everything out of each other, somewhat like Ali and Frazier after the Thrilla.

Possibly, tho their fights weren't as brutal as Ali - Frazier.

Speaking of Leonard and the comparison regarding the Camacho beating, you can even go back a few years earlier to the Terry Norris trouncing, which, I still maintain, wouldn't have happened in the years '81 thru '85, before Leonard's slide began. You can't hold the Norris loss against Leonard, just like you can't disregard Valdez for losing to Corro.

Fair enough.

[zadfrak]

The other nig thing Valdez has going for him in this matchup is a major set of whiskers. If you are going to beat McClellan you simply can't have a vulnerable chin. Valdez doesn't and he was always in top shape. He didn't take a lot of chances in there either & I think a no risk/lets get this fight past 6 rounds is a key to beating McClellan.

It wouldn't be easy, but I think Valdez stops him late once the bout becomes a matter of conditioning/ absorbing the other guy's punches/chin.

[Senya13]

As if Valdez ever met a puncher of McClellan's caliber. If Gerald lands a clean right hand, it's all over for Valdez, but he'd still outpoint G-Man in 9 fights out of 10, bad matchup for Gerald.

[WhataRock]

As if Valdez ever met a puncher of McClellan's caliber. If Gerald lands a clean right hand, it's all over for Valdez, but he'd still outpoint G-Man in 9 fights out of 10, bad matchup for Gerald.


Benny Briscoe my friend...a much more proven fighter then GMAN.

[JohnThomas1]

Benny Briscoe my friend...a much more proven fighter then GMAN.


For sure, but Senya just means for pure power. Not the most skillfull, but Gerald did have incredible power. Of course he was coming in much heavier than Valdez and Bennie too.

[Lefty Supremacy]

Valdez by comparision was still active, was just 31 and had beaten Bennie Briscoe just 4 months before fighting Corrie :yikes

You have to remember that Valdez turned pro at the age of 17 and had 70-someodd fights by then. He was more likely than not at the end of the line.

[JohnThomas1]

You have to remember that Valdez turned pro at the age of 17 and had 70-someodd fights by then. He was more likely than not at the end of the line.


Good points for sure, but still nothing like Leonard's plight comparison wise. He was proven to be at the end of the line 6 years earlier, and hadn't fought since.

Didn't actually realise Valdez was pro so young tho, i must admit.

[jowcol]

Rodrigo turned pro in 62 at age 16. Is it not so much age as it is longevity?
An all-time great!
I'd love to put him in a time machine and drop him into some of the past eras....

[JohnThomas1]

Rodrigo turned pro in 62 at age 16. Is it not so much age as it is longevity?
An all-time great!
I'd love to put him in a time machine and drop him into some of the past eras....


Indeed, which is exactly what LS said.

[WhataRock]

For sure, but Senya just means for pure power. Not the most skillfull, but Gerald did have incredible power. Of course he was coming in much heavier than Valdez and Bennie too.

Benny could whack with the best of them, definitely one of the hardest punchers at the weight ever..maybe he doesnt hit harder then GMAN, maybe he does but to say he isnt of the same caliber is just not true.

[My2Sense]

As if Valdez ever met a puncher of McClellan's caliber.

As if McClellan ever KO'd an elite fighter with a quality chin.

[My2Sense]

Before Gerald started to soak up the heavy punishment against Benn, the see-saw lateral movements of Nigel off-set his output in a big way and Valdez was rather good at that routine; sharp dips and a tight guard.

Valdez likely had a better grasp of the necessary fundamentals to catch McClellans big guns and reply back with the shorter, sharper punches. Gerald was not great at creating openings and that would cost him with Valdez winning the shootout.

Basically the way I see it. Valdez's superior technique is the deciding factor.

[Senya13]

McClellan's is the hardest right hand in middleweight history. Briscoe is not even close for punching power.