Convince me about Harry Greb

[True Writer]

I see alot of people on this site putting Greb in their top ten p4p. Little footage of him exists pretty much the only footage I can find is;

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Its all very well to say he beat this guy and that guy but one of Hearn's farts would probably KO him.

Its fair to say that he does not look much - his legs are skinny his body looks weak. Someone needs to convince me big time that this guy is serious.

Is Greb just rated so highly because boxing was less professional, less scientific and less skillful in his day? It also seems, from what I read that he was the recipient of some fortunate decisions over black fighters, is this another reason that he prospered - because black fighters where cheated or prevented from challanging the white fighters.

[Quickhands21]

Try fighting wold class opposition blind in your right eye sometime an find out

[janitor]

Here is the bottom line.

Although we dont have any footage of Harry Greb fightiing we do have footage of many of his victims such as Gene Tunney, Tommy Loughran, Mickey Walker, Jimmy Slatterey, Tommy Gibbons etc etc.

We therfore have a prety good idea of the calibre of fighters he was beating.

Now Grbbs resume is just ridiculous. In all he beat 14 fighters who held the lineal title in one weight class or another!!!!!!!!!!!

Believe the hype.

[True Writer]

But look at the man - I'd fancy my chances to be honest.

[ishy]

But look at the man - I'd fancy my chances to be honest.

He was messing around in a sparring session. You going to base how good a fighter he was on that?

[DaveTheWave]

I was in the same shoes you were not too long ago....

While I don't (and never did) think Greb looks weak, I did believe he didn't belong in the same ring or sentence with the other greats. I have since changed my mind.

For one thing, as another poster said, look at the opposition he beat; we have footage of Tunney, Loughran and others who, as we see on film, were scientific and could pass for modern fighters...

Another thing I've come to accept is that many greats, even the very early ones, had skills- maybe not on par with the most skillful we know of today, but skillful enough to get the job done and compete with just about anyone.

There are plenty of fighters today who are champions and contenders who don't have much skill- They get by, winning some and losing some... Do we say this is an era of bums? No- there are many fighters with great skill and talent, and they shouldn't be penalized for being contemporaries with lesser skilled fighters.

Not everyone from before 1940 was a bum.

[Sweet Pea]

He was messing around in a sparring session. You going to base how good a fighter he was on that?
And a "sparring session" with a 60 year old opponent at that. I think it's fair to say he wasn't exactly giving his all rather than just fooling around.

As to the question, Janitor already answered that one well enough.

[True Writer]

Does anybody think he has a chace with - Hearns etc. I just can't see it

[janitor]

Does anybody think he has a chace with - Hearns etc. I just can't see it

I dont think hat Heans has much chance against Gene Tunney and I know that Grebb beat Hearns twice.

The footage dosnt really tell us anything about how good a fighter he was because it dosnt show him fighting. He is just doing random reflex exercises. Could be anything.

Even if we had footage of him fighting and he looked awfull you would have to acknowledge that he obviously had some greatness that wasnt apparent from the film because of who he beat.

His resume is so overwhelming that if he looked bad we would have to reasess our idea of what looked bad.

[janitor]

He was messing around in a sparring session. You going to base how good a fighter he was on that?

Philadelphia Jack O'Brien was about 60 when that was filmed.

It would be like Vitally Klitschko sparring with the Joe Frazier of today.

Again it dosnt really tell us anything.

[mr. magoo]

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[Maxmomer]

Are you fucking retarded?

[ishy]

Philadelphia Jack O'Brien was about 60 when that was filmed.

It would be like Vitally Klitschko sparring with the Joe Frazier of today.

Again it dosnt really tell us anything.

:good

[McGrain]

Are you fucking retarded?

:lol:

I don't like to see personal abuse levied against guys in this part of the forum, but this is a fair post.

[Dempsey1238]

I have footage of Jack Dempsey(The heavyweight) vs a 50 or 60 year old former champion Jack McAuliffe. Now Dempsey look no WERE near the killer he was vs Willard. Hell, Dempsey was thowing slaps, and look very arkward, just as Harry Greb did vs a 60 year old Jack O'Brien. Neither champion wanted to hurt the former age former champ.

If all we had of Dempsey was his sparing with McAuliffe, I sure people would say Dempsey suck too because he didnt blow him out with the first few punchings.

[mr. magoo]

Is Greb just rated so highly because boxing was less professional, less scientific and less skillful in his day?

I'll try and answer that question in exchange for the answer to, Why can anyone who has access to a computer post whatever they feel like?

[timmers612]

The two tapes of Harry do show some slivers of info for those of us ready to take in anything on this great. In many pictures Harry had his right hand in an unusual position, in the sparring session he threw his right from this set which let me know how he did it, an odd chopping punch. He appears far faster then I would have thought, doesn't seem interested in setting for his punches, but rather to throw numerous punches fast, and maybe not thrown technique wise the best. If...he actually could move that fast round after round, geese! He didn't appear very strong for a middleweight and his feet and hand postions might indicate not much umph in his punches. Now don't waste your time blasting me, its just fun seeing what one,,,thinks,,,they can pick up from these slight tapes. Tim

[Russell]

I'll try and answer that question in exchange for the answer to, Why can anyone who has access to a computer post whatever they feel like?

:lol::lol::lol:

[salsanchezfan]

................Just a troll, I think. I wouldn't bother with this one.

[Stonehands89]

Greb is the pivot by which we can separate the old heads/purists from the new jacks. Here's why: to appreciate Greb demands research. Janitor nailed it -but he did so because he referred to his notes. There is no film that we know of that gives us a first-hand glimpse, we only have names on that golden ring record and many of those names were serious guys fighting in serious times. Greb's defeat of Tunney and Walker are stand-outs in any era. We can draw conclusions from such things that will be both valid and reliable.

Any boxing fan who wants to get serious needs to do their homework. Begin with Greb. The old heads and purists out can be counted on to grade you -ruthlessly- so don't cheat or slack or get stupid.

[Robbi]

Does anybody think he has a chace with - Hearns etc. I just can't see it

Nobody has enough concrete evidence to sensibly come to such a conclusion. Greb's outstanding resume and the fighters he fought can only be used as a hazey guage. His longevity and dynamite chin against the best of his era in over 300 fights tells us a lot about him.

But the bottom line is that "you can only call it as you see it". And with Greb thats impossible.

If 20-30 of Greb's best wins were released on perfect DVD quality tommorow, then things could be judged accurately. Who's to say that he might not quite live up to the hype that surrounds him if he was viewable. I'm pretty sure he was as good as historians of the past claim he was.

[ripcity]

Like any old tyme boxer wher film footage is eather lacking or dose not exest. You have to go by and trust the historical written record. I don't know where i rank Greb but he is certaanly an all time great.

[Russell]

Nobody has enough concrete evidence to sensibly come to such a conclusion. Greb's outstanding resume and the fighters he fought can only be used as a hazey guage. His longevity and dynamite chin against the best of his era in over 300 fights tells us a lot about him.

But the bottom line is that "you can only call it as you see it". And with Greb thats impossible.

If 20-30 of Greb's best wins were released on perfect DVD quality tommorow, then things could be judged accurately. Who's to say that he might not quite live up to the hype that surrounds him if he was viewable. I'm pretty sure he was as good as historians of the past claim he was.

He had 299 fights I think. Shame on you! :nono:lol:

[Robbi]

He had 299 fights I think. Shame on you! :nono:lol:

303, although some resources have his total at 299. And even if I'am wrong, no shame on me. :good

[Robbi]

Like any old tyme boxer wher film footage is eather lacking or dose not exest. You have to go by and trust the historical written record. I don't know where i rank Greb but he is certaanly an all time great.

Nice avatar. Easily the best captured, in-ring, shot of all-time. Basilio-DeMarco.

[heehoo]

Greb beat so many Hall-Of-Famers it's not funny. Hearns had that killer right hand, but Greb would be slashing, moving around, slapping Tommy to a unanimous decision over 15 rounds.

[ripcity]

Nice avatar. Easily the best captured, in-ring, shot of all-time. Basilio-DeMarco.

Thanks i agree. Hy Peskin is one of the best photographers of all time.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I'm sure he's posted this Greb thing before. :huh

[jc]

But why dont we have any footage, why?!

[McGrain]

I'm sure he's posted this Greb thing before. :huh

It's a recurring theme with him, for sure.

He seems to dislike dead fighters generally,which is a hell of a thing to have someone be able to say about you...

[True Writer]

I have nothing against dead fighters, however some people on this site rate Greb as a top 3 p4p without seeing one of his fights - that is stupidity.

Also nobody seems to be arguing against my point that he was gifted decisions over black fighters.....

The era in which he fought was a racist and black fighters that did or would have beaten Greb where brushed under the carpet.

[GPater11093]

maybe he wasnt gifted desicions against black fighters

just because boxing then was rascist didnt mean every black fighter beat every white fihghter

[True Writer]

Thats true but if you read about his fights against black fighters, there is usually a foot note saying most people ringside felt Greb was beaten.

[GPater11093]

havent really researched greb that much just know he beat alot of good names so your probably right

[Dempsey1238]

Unless you get to Tiger Flowers, were people said Greb was robbed. Both times.

[GPater11093]

thats karma

[True Writer]

I think its just crazy to rate a man so highly as people do without;

Seeing any of his fights

while fighting in an era where black fighters where not competing on a level playing field.

So all those dicks that levelled persinal insults at me - how do they counter this and where do they rate greb?

[Dempsey1238]

Harry Greb use no color bar. Hell he was color blind when it came to fighting the best.
Its not Greb's fault all of his fights are lost. Most of 75 percent film, world wide from the 20's, and back are good forever. blame the 50's when they burn the films for fire hazard.

[Maxmomer]

I think its just crazy to rate a man so highly as people do without;

Seeing any of his fights

while fighting in an era where black fighters where not competing on a level playing field.

So all those dicks that levelled persinal insults at me - how do they counter this and where do they rate greb?

So was that a yes...?

[Stonehands89]

... this is shaping up as expected.

[Robbi]

I have nothing against dead fighters, however some people on this site rate Greb as a top 3 p4p without seeing one of his fights - that is stupidity.

Take peoples top 10 "pound for pound" lists with a pinch of salt. It's not a level playing field. The consistency of evidence just isn't there for each fighter. Ok, some people may well have seen more fights of one fighter compared to another. I'm not suggesting anyone needs to view the exact same amount of footage for each fighter within a list for things to be done accurately. But question marks float around such lists when the person doing the placements has seen no footage of one fighter, and 15-20 fights of another.

Reading books, studying records, and building up a picture of a fighter when no footage exists of him is only part of the jigsaw.

However, Greb can't be excluded from such lists due to lack of footage. It's unfair on him as a fighter and his era.

[klompton]

What black fighters did Greb get gifts against? He beat Jack Blackburn fair and square, he beat Willie Lewis fair and square, his first fight with Norfolk was a ND bout so it couldnt have been a gift. His second fight with Norfolk he was DQ'd but many felt Norfolk was as at fault as Harry, no gift there, his first fight with Flowers was a ND and people argued that both of his championship fights with Flowers were close and could have gone either way but he lost them, no gift there. He won every round of his fight with Allentown Joe Gans, no gift there. So tell me who did he win gifts over???? Also, so what if there is no film of him. There is no film of a TON of great fighters does that mean we should disregard their accomplishments? I personally have film of a ton of Greb's opponents and the mere fact that he was beating those guys multiple times on his busy schedule blind in one eye etc etc is extremely impressive. If you want to disregard him because you havent seen him fine but you might as well disregard the civil war also...

[Maxmomer]

What black fighters did Greb get gifts against? He beat Jack Blackburn fair and square, he beat Willie Lewis fair and square, his first fight with Norfolk was a ND bout so it couldnt have been a gift. His second fight with Norfolk he was DQ'd but many felt Norfolk was as at fault as Harry, no gift there, his first fight with Flowers was a ND and people argued that both of his championship fights with Flowers were close and could have gone either way but he lost them, no gift there. He every round of his fight with Allentown Joe Gans, no gift there. So tell me who did he win gifts over???? Also, so what if there is no film of him. There is no film of a TON of great fighters does that mean we should disregard their accomplishments? I personally have film of a ton of Greb's opponents and the mere fact that he was beating those guys multiple times on his busy schedule blind in one eye etc etc is extremely impressive. If you want to disregard him because you havent seen him fine but you might as well disregard the civil war also...

POW! Especially like that last bit.

[klompton]

It amazes me sometimes that some people seem to think no human being could hit hard before HBO...

[dpw417]

It amazes me sometimes that some people seem to think no human being could hit hard before HBO...
Get 'em!!!...Sic 'em!!!...klompton.:good

[Ted Spoon]

With Greb it is quite simple:

We do have film of the men he beat and his actual record boasts a level of depth that is very probably unrivaled.

A hectic swarmer whose demented ring conduct was quite clearly too much to handle for almost anyone in every weight.

[janitor]

[quote=True Writer;3120761]I think its just crazy to rate a man so highly as people do without;


We might all be crazy here but:


Seeing any of his fights


We have footage of his oponents:

Tunney was great pound for pound

Loughran was great pound for pound

Walker was great pound for pound

etc etc


while fighting in an era where black fighters where not competing on a level playing field.


The irony of what you are saying is that Greb was the only top white fighter of the period who gave fights and title shots to the top black fighters without asking questions.

If they ever got a level playing field it was Greb.


So all those dicks that levelled persinal insults at me - how do they counter this and where do they rate greb?


I am sorry for the personal insults levelled against you.

That is not what I wanted.

There have been a few punk kids who brought the same argument (as you) less respectfully and that has made people wary/hostile about the anti Greb crowd.

Sorry and Merry Christmas

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= Learn your boxing history son as Harry Greb is as good as any fighter in history of the game. He was the greatest middleweight who ever stepped into the squared circle. We have seen his opponents on film for years and we damn well know
how good they were. He not only devastated the Middleweight dev. but destroyed every Lt. Heavyweght champion who would fight him as his big problem was there wasn`t any title on the line when they fought him. I have the guy rated in the top
ten Lt.Heavyweights of all time because of who he beat. Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky,
Mike McTigue, Tommy Loughran, Jimmy Slatterey and Maxie Rosenbloom/ Harry Greb fought every great fighter of his time regardless of size or weight if they would fight him.
Greb`s ring record stands alone as the single greatest body of work in boxing history
bar none. Young man I suggest you study Harry Greb`s record before you make judgement of him and as far as the films go watch him on the speed bag it shows what guys had to deal with then. The bag he`s hitting isn`t a peanut bag so many hit today'
but a big striking bag which is 13" or better and he making it a blur. To do that you really have to hit the thing hard like your hitting an opponent in the ring. KLOMPTON
ARE YOU STEVE COMPTON??

[mcvey]

But look at the man - I'd fancy my chances to be honest.
I wouldn't!

[mcvey]

I have nothing against dead fighters, however some people on this site rate Greb as a top 3 p4p without seeing one of his fights - that is stupidity.

Also nobody seems to be arguing against my point that he was gifted decisions over black fighters.....

The era in which he fought was a racist and black fighters that did or would have beaten Greb where brushed under the carpet.

Well that makes me stupid then.It's official!

[mcvey]

I see alot of people on this site putting Greb in their top ten p4p. Little footage of him exists pretty much the only footage I can find is;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Its all very well to say he beat this guy and that guy but one of Hearn's farts would probably KO him.

Its fair to say that he does not look much - his legs are skinny his body looks weak. Someone needs to convince me big time that this guy is serious.

Is Greb just rated so highly because boxing was less professional, less scientific and less skillful in his day? It also seems, from what I read that he was the recipient of some fortunate decisions over black fighters, is this another reason that he prospered - because black fighters where cheated or prevented from challanging the white fighters.

Klompton is probably the man to enlighten you on Greb.

[timmers612]

Big Dee, well said!

[klompton]

KLOMPTON
ARE YOU STEVE COMPTON??


yup

[amhlilhaus]

But look at the man - I'd fancy my chances to be honest.

I was going to read through the responses, but this ends the thread for me.

[he grant]

I knew K-Man would surface to answer speculation with fact ... Greb is an all time top five pound for pound great ... his standing has been verified by the men he fought ... it is fair to ask if you do not know or are not sure but I think the question has been answered ,,,

[Seamus]

Its fair to say that he does not look much - his legs are skinny his body looks weak. Someone needs to convince me big time that this guy is serious.

I think bodybuilding might be your true calling.

[Seamus]

[quote]

The irony of what you are saying is that Greb was the only top white fighter of the period who gave fights and title shots to the top black fighters without asking questions.

If they ever got a level playing field it was Greb.



The color barrier was a lose/lose situation for both black and white fighters. Just as we can never have a full estimate of a given white fighter's abilities because he only fought among a select group, the same can be said of a given black fighter. Ergo, we do not know exactly how good - for instance- Harry Wills was because he was largely restricted to fighting fellow black fighters. When he did take on more whites, he was probably past his peak. What I am saying is that the argument can be made both ways, and in the end, both sets of fighters lose something.

And in regards to Greb, he actually did fight his share of black fighters so it is more a moot point in his case.

Lastly, this thread is perfectly legitimate and worthwhile, if even in the posture of a devil's advocate.

[Stonehands89]

The color barrier was a lose/lose situation for both black and white fighters. Just as we can never have a full estimate of a given white fighter's abilities because he only fought among a select group, the same can be said of a given black fighter. Ergo, we do not know exactly how good - for instance- Harry Wills was because he was largely restricted to fighting fellow black fighters. When he did take on more whites, he was probably past his peak. What I am saying is that the argument can be made both ways, and in the end, both sets of fighters lose something.

And in regards to Greb, he actually did fight his share of black fighters so it is more a moot point in his case.

Lastly, this thread is perfectly legitimate and worthwhile, if even in the posture of a devil's advocate.
Well said.

And let's remember that white guys weren't the only ones who could be prone to avoid black fighters once they got a belt. See Jack Johnson.

[Russell]

No love for Greb embarrassing Dempsey in sparring?

[Stonehands89]

No love for Greb embarrassing Dempsey in sparring?
I for one don't put all that much weight there. It's sparring. I think it highly likely that a prime Dempsey would have eventually went through Greb in an actual bout.

[Russell]

I for one don't put all that much weight there. It's sparring. I think it highly likely that a prime Dempsey would have eventually went through Greb in an actual bout.

What, like Greb managed once against the far inferior Miske in three fights?

[Stonehands89]

What, like Greb managed once against the far inferior Miske in three fights?
Power is the great equalizer. Comparing Greb's chances Dempsey with his performances against Miske is a comparison that shouldn't be made -Miske was a superb boxer who threw fast punches with a little mustard on them... "slick as a whistle and swift as a breeze" if you will. Dempsey's style finds origins in saber-toothed tigers.

[El Puma]

................Just a troll, I think. I wouldn't bother with this one.
:yep

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[salsanchezfan]

:yep

[Only registered and activated users can see links]



..............Now see, that's interesting.

[El Puma]

..............Now see, that's interesting.I've been waiting for a worthwhile thread and poster to use my "Don't feed the trolls" pic. Thank you:good

[salsanchezfan]

I've been waiting for a worthwhile thread and poster to use my "Don't feed the trolls" pic. Thank you:good



..............That's why they hired me. :good

[janitor]

Dempsey's style finds origins in saber-toothed tigers.

On a side note, I did an asignment on "hunting strategies in sabretooths" a few years back. It seems that they grapled their prey to the floor and held it down while they administered a fatal bite to the neck.

In that respect they are more like Jim Jeffries than Jack Dempsey.

[McGrain]

:lol:

[ChrisPontius]

On a side note, I did an asignment on "hunting strategies in sabretooths" a few years back. It seems that they grapled their prey to the floor and held it down while they administered a fatal bite to the neck.

In that respect they are more like Jim Jeffries than Jack Dempsey.

Sabretooths preyed mostly on much smaller animals ? ;)

[janitor]

Sabretooths preyed mostly on much smaller animals ? ;)

No that is where the comparison ends.

[My2Sense]

Its fair to say that he does not look much - his legs are skinny his body looks weak.


Sounds like Hearns.

[Stonehands89]

On a side note, I did an asignment on "hunting strategies in sabretooths" a few years back. It seems that they grapled their prey to the floor and held it down while they administered a fatal bite to the neck.

In that respect they are more like Jim Jeffries than Jack Dempsey.
Now that is interesting!

Am I correct in remembering that your background is in paleontology? I still recall with pleasure our first (and perhaps my personal favorite) debate years ago where I made a reference to ethology and then we got sidetracked.

(Ummm... like I said, Dempsey's style finds origins in wolverines.)

[McGrain]

If I was going to liken Dempsey to an animal it would be one he had much admiration for, the American Pitbull Terrier. He brings across a savage and relentless attack without warning or cessation.

When presented with a Colby bred pitbull (which he had requested), Jack returned the animal on the grounds that it was "to small to be taken seriously", which seems ironic given that these are the exact grounds Dempsey is often dismissed on right here on ESB.

[Boggle]

What kind of animal was Greb?

[Swarmer]

What kind of animal was Greb?
:lol:

a really ferocious, mobile badger.

[burt bienstock]

What kind of animal was Greb?
B,not much was he>..Just simply more amazing than any fighter that ever graced a ring!! This is NOT hyperbole. This is COLD facts. Not beautiful as
Ray Robinson or Willie Pep, But accomplished GREATER things, against
much bigger fighters in a 300 bout career, DUCKING no one, weight ,color
or reputation, fighting almost weekly, traveling from town to town,in hot trains,arriving in the morning,sometimes entertaining a lady or two, putting on his non-stop attack at night ,getting paid, and on to the next town, whipping just about everyone,such as Tunney, Loughran, Tommy Gibbons,
Jack Dillon, Billy Miske, Gunboat Smith, Kid Norfolk, Mickey Walker, Maxie
Rosenbloom, Battling Levinsky, Bill Brennan, etc,most all who were heavier than Greb, and I might add, for a good part of his career, BLIND in one eye,
and the other orb, failing. What courage this tough S.O.B. had !!!
He had what the old-timers called "bottom", in spades...
Name me one middleweight of modern times who could have accomplished
or even ATTEMPTED what lil ole Greb , done in his almost surreal career ?
Can't be done ...Not for nothing was famous victims as Tunney, Walker,
Rosenbloom,and others,lauded Harry Greb as the best fighter they have ever seen. Harry Greb, for the ages ..:good

[Boggle]

B,not much was he>..Just simply more amazing than any fighter that ever graced a ring!! This is NOT hyperbole. This is COLD facts. Not beautiful as
Ray Robinson or Willie Pep, But accomplished GREATER things, against
much bigger fighters in a 300 bout career, DUCKING no one, weight ,color
or reputation, fighting almost weekly, traveling from town to town,in hot trains,arriving in the morning,sometimes entertaining a lady or two, putting on his non-stop attack at night ,getting paid, and on to the next town, whipping just about everyone,such as Tunney, Loughran, Tommy Gibbons,
Jack Dillon, Billy Miske, Gunboat Smith, Kid Norfolk, Mickey Walker, Maxie
Rosenbloom, Battling Levinsky, Bill Brennan, etc,most all who were heavier than Greb, and I might add, for a good part of his career, BLIND in one eye,
and the other orb, failing. What courage this tough S.O.B. had !!!
He had what the old-timers called "bottom", in spades...
Name me one middleweight of modern times who could have accomplished
or even ATTEMPTED what lil ole Greb , done in his almost surreal career ?
Can't be done ...Not for nothing was famous victims as Tunney, Walker,
Rosenbloom,and others,lauded Harry Greb as the best fighter they have ever seen. Harry Greb, for the ages ..:good

burt, I gather you are a fan? :good

Now somebody tell me what kind of animal Greb was?!?!

[Pachilles]

burt, I gather you are a fan? :good

Now somebody tell me what kind of animal Greb was?!?!

a kangaroo

[Vockerman]

I think its just crazy to rate a man so highly as people do without;

Seeing any of his fights

while fighting in an era where black fighters where not competing on a level playing field.

So all those dicks that levelled persinal insults at me - how do they counter this and where do they rate greb?

In the 2002 "80th Anniversary Issue" of Ring Magazine, Greb was declared the 7th greatest fighter in the last 80 years. The ranking was as follows: #1-Sugar Ray Robinson, #2-Henry Armstrong, #3-Muhammad Ali, #4-Joe Louis, #5-Roberto Duran, #6-Willie Pep, #7-Harry Greb.

International Boxing Research Org all time middleweight rankings
1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Stanley Ketchel
4. Mickey Walker
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Marvin Hagler
7. Marcel Cerdan
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Jake LaMotta
10. Charley Burley

ESB Classics Middleweight ranking
1. 736 Carlos Monzon (13)
2. 718 Harry Greb (15)


Sports Illustrated Top 10 All-Time Greatest Middleweights
#1 Harry Greb
261-19-18, 6 NC; 48 KOs

Read more: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Boxing Scene top 25 middleweights all time
#1 Harry Greb (1913-26)
[Only registered and activated users can see links]***********.com/-top-25-middleweights-all-time-top-ten--24472

Harry Greb was voted top All-Time Middleweight on Monte Cox's website "Cox's Corner"

"The fastest fighter I ever saw"
Jack Dempsey said of Greb. That is amazing since Dempsey had seen a lot of the blindingly fast Benny Leonard!

Jimmy McLarnin, one of boxing's best, Who during his career beat 13 lineal champions and won the Welterweight Championship of the World = once told an admirer,"If you thought I was great, you should have seen Harry Greb."


This is not intended as a personal attack but a simple statement of fact.
If you are looking for facts I have provided quite a few. If these don't fit your perception of reality feel free to ignore them, your opinions are your own and far be it from me to attempt to convince you of anything if the facts alone will not do it. If, in the face of this overwhelming evidence, you do NOT rate Harry Greb at or near the top of the all time middleweights then it says a lot more about you, sir, than Mr. Greb. And if you find reason to ignore the opinions of others who are scholars, historians, boxers and trainers of professional boxers why, exactly, should we trust or value your opinions on the fighters you see film of? Are you a professional sports journalist specializing in boxing, it would appear from what you have written that you are not a journalist. Are you, sir, a highly skilled boxer or trainer? Is your profession one having to do with boxing so that you have vast amounts of personal experience? From what perspective can you argue that your ideas and opinions about a fighter you admittedly have never seen should outweigh the record and eye witness accounts of people (whose profession was boxing related) regarding this man?

"Boxing is every day in every way getting better all the time."
Is obviously incorrect.

and

"I haven't seen film of him." isn't a very convincing line...

[Vockerman]

burt, I gather you are a fan? :good

Now somebody tell me what kind of animal Greb was?!?!

wolverine

small, fast, deadly, nasty, crazy brave and will never ever quit

[burt bienstock]

burt, I gather you are a fan? :good

Now somebody tell me what kind of animal Greb was?!?!
B,how on earth did you deduce that i was a "fan" of Harry Greb ?
Maybe, because as a child my dad who saw Greb beat the daylights out of a bigger Gene Tunney at old MSG,would tell me that Greb was the best fighter he ever saw,and my dad took young me too see a prime WW Ray Robinson
several times. Heady stuff...
My theory or opinion is simple : what middleweight could of taken on all the great bigger HOF fighters as Greb did,and whip them. ? We know the answer.
None since Greb's time...To accomplish what he fearlessly did,because of his
"UNIQUE" style,stamina and cojones, puts me in awe... Cheers B....