You MMA fans seriously think they go toe to toe with boxers?

[Primenal]

I don't want to rain down on peoples sports here, but I hear this a lot "If a boxer fights MMA the boxer will lose, and if the MMA fighter fights a boxing match he'll lose." You guys seriously believe this is the case...After watching something like tonight?
I watched the card, and don't watch a lot of UFC, but enough to understand *some* matches are good/ exciting, and others are 2 dudes rolling around wtih eachother. So, since I'm a boxing fan, and like action I like to watch standup fights. Tonight gave me what I wanted, but tonight also told me a lot about boxer vs MMA fighter...
Here's my problem......These MMA fighters CANNOT take a damn punch! OMG!!! If these guys were in Pro boxing you'd hear nothing except about how they have a glass chin!!!!!!
Let me put it in retrospect...You got MMA fighers who wear 4 oz gloves, and easily knock eachother out/ down with one good punch. You got Pro boxers whom are wearing 8 oz gloves (4 oz more), you don't see many KD's/ KO's in many fights where they have 2 superior boxers, blood running down there faces, black eyes, knots, eyes closing for 12 rounds (they may land 15-30 CLEAN punches) and yet...Most still don't go down/ give up.
Let's compare Arturro Gatti vs Ward fights, and then compare the main event tonight Griffen/ Evans. Gatti/ Ward fights were physichal WARS! Griffin/ Evans: You had Griffin staying back, firing, winning the fight using his height. He goes down, and Evans throws some punches at his face, and it's all over. Kidding me? What kind of fighting spirit is that???

So, again back to my point. My point is a good boxer can take LOADS more punishment than most MMA fighters. AND honestly I believe even with MMA rules a lot of boxers beat MMA fighters. Standup MMA fighters wouldn't stand a chance unless a lucky kick. Even if MMA fighter does a takedown natural instincts tells you to do a lot. I mean Vitali Klitshko vs Frank Mir at standup??? I'd venture to say Vitali/ Wladimir are way physichally stronger than him as well even if he takes them down.
Again, not raining on anybodies sports, but these china chins get on my nerves, and it seems nobody sees this cept me.

[codeman99998]

Physically stronger means nothing. Watch UFC 1 and get back to us.

[BoppaZoo]

You cant say that.

There two different sports.

Just because there both combat sports you cant say anything until it was to happen.

But could you see Lesnar vs Klitschko
or anything like that.

No Way.

They would have to fight UFC rules first then they would have to fight Boxing rules aswell 3 months later to really find out.

[cryptic]

i completely agree with the TS

[tri-pod]

do you know how many boxers would get knocked out if they fought with the 7 ounce gloves instead?

and an experienced boxer vs. an experienced mixed martial artist would probably win because the boxer isn't trained to take leg kicks elbows or knees. they wouldn't know what to do if they saw them coming.

but in a boxing match. yes the boxer would win.

the worst part about boxing is also the worst part about mma. the biased fans who try to put one over the other.

two different sports.

[Infern0]

This thread will soon degenerate into a slaging match

[Primenal]

do you know how many boxers would get knocked out if they fought with the 7 ounce gloves instead?

and an experienced boxer vs. an experienced mixed martial artist would probably win because the boxer isn't trained to take leg kicks elbows or knees. they wouldn't know what to do if they saw them coming.

but in a boxing match. yes the boxer would win.

the worst part about boxing is also the worst part about mma. the biased fans who try to put one over the other.

two different sports.

What you mean they wouldn't know what to do against leg kicks? These guys study there opponents for MONTHS! Pac vs De La Hoya...Pac knew exactly what he was going to do to De La Hoya for instance, and his gameplan went perfectly. It's because he STUIDED a tape, made his gameplan, and worked months to fights Oscar De La Hoya. If he were fighting Floyd mayweather it might be different.
What I'm trying to say...Is a boxer would watch how the UFC fighter fights!! I'm no pro boxer, no pro trainer, and used to go to an MMA gym for a while, BUT I could watch one of these guys and tell you exactly my gameplan, and how I would deal with there kicks.
You got better hands? you take a good punch? You can't kick ya say? Well, your ass needs to get on the inside, use your hands, beat him to the punch, and take his ass out! If he charges in to grab you DRILL him with a combo to stop him (including an uppercut would be nice).
Of course nothing in life works out perfectly like you thought it would, but some of the matchups you could make MMA vs Pro boxing sound REDICULOUS!

and as for the 7 oz glove question...You have somewhat of a point, but I don't believe to many fights would change. I mean chances are if you can take getting punched in the face say 20 times for say 12 rounds (220 times) I'm willing to bet your pretty used to getting HIT in general, and willing to bet you can take a punch.
You mean to tell me you think Margarito could get bombs dropped on him from Cotto for 11 rounds with 8 oz gloves...Yet some 150 pound MMA fighter with limited boxing experience would knock his ass out with 4 oz gloves? That's another thing as well. It may sound biased, but doesn't it seem like some of these boxers posess more PHYSICHAL STRENGTH? Margarito fighting at 147...Looks like he weighs 170. I'm also willing to bet any *normal* 200 pound man would have have trouble handling him. SOme MMA fighters look like they'd be the same way (could handle a much larger man), but most (to me) do not.

[Tuffnutz]

do you know how many boxers would get knocked out if they fought with the 7 ounce gloves instead?

and an experienced boxer vs. an experienced mixed martial artist would probably win because the boxer isn't trained to take leg kicks elbows or knees. they wouldn't know what to do if they saw them coming.

but in a boxing match. yes the boxer would win.

the worst part about boxing is also the worst part about mma. the biased fans who try to put one over the other.

two different sports.

UFC gloves are 4 ounce not 7.

[Primenal]

This thread will soon degenerate into a slaging match

Ha, I know! I'm not trying to flame MMA...I mean I actually watched the PPV tonight, and enjoy some of it. I just can't beleive how hard some of guys train, and they gotta be in good shape...How easily some just give up, or just get KTFO cold! Again, that isn't saying boxing is that much better cuz some people give up, and some people get KTFO cold, but just seems to me if your watching a UFC match your more likely to see it than in a boxing match.
Plus, the thing about UFC is there isn't that many fights so every fight they have are suppose to 2 top notch spectacular superstars. In boxing there's much more fights so you get lucky if you get to see 2 so called bums fight, and it turns out good...If it doesn't then you expected it to suck. Most top fights with top fighters...Usually do as well as expected.

[AJAX]

Ha, I know! I'm not trying to flame MMA...I mean I actually watched the PPV tonight, and enjoy some of it. I just can't beleive how hard some of guys train, and they gotta be in good shape...How easily some just give up, or just get KTFO cold! Again, that isn't saying boxing is that much better cuz some people give up, and some people get KTFO cold, but just seems to me if your watching a UFC match your more likely to see it than in a boxing match.
Plus, the thing about UFC is there isn't that many fights so every fight they have are suppose to 2 top notch spectacular superstars. In boxing there's much more fights so you get lucky if you get to see 2 so called bums fight, and it turns out good...If it doesn't then you expected it to suck. Most top fights with top fighters...Usually do as well as expected.

After reading your post I have come to the simple conclusion your are an idiot!:-(

[Thom]

do you know how many boxers would get knocked out if they fought with the 7 ounce gloves instead?

and an experienced boxer vs. an experienced mixed martial artist would probably win because the boxer isn't trained to take leg kicks elbows or knees. they wouldn't know what to do if they saw them coming.

but in a boxing match. yes the boxer would win.

the worst part about boxing is also the worst part about mma. the biased fans who try to put one over the other.

two different sports.


Yep, I'm really tired of hearing people spout this sort of ignorance fueled tripe over and over again.

[Koa]

Ha, I know! I'm not trying to flame MMA...I mean I actually watched the PPV tonight, and enjoy some of it. I just can't beleive how hard some of guys train, and they gotta be in good shape...How easily some just give up, or just get KTFO cold! Again, that isn't saying boxing is that much better cuz some people give up, and some people get KTFO cold, but just seems to me if your watching a UFC match your more likely to see it than in a boxing match.
Plus, the thing about UFC is there isn't that many fights so every fight they have are suppose to 2 top notch spectacular superstars. In boxing there's much more fights so you get lucky if you get to see 2 so called bums fight, and it turns out good...If it doesn't then you expected it to suck. Most top fights with top fighters...Usually do as well as expected.

How old are you? 12?

[ShadowWorks]

How old are you? 12?

In Dog years maybe.

[PUMPERG]

Mma takeover!!! Exciting fights tonight!!! What does boxing got lined up lets see next month sugar shane vs margarrito !! Shane 10 yrs past prime!! What a joke

[Primenal]

After reading your post I have come to the simple conclusion your are an idiot!:-(

Yeah, and you got your idol on your avatar I see. That's really all that needs to be said about UFC. Heavyweight champion of the world BROCK LESNAR. Dude has a few MMA fights and already champion of the world. One loss I might add out of those few fights.
How many pro boxers win the WHC within a few fights? I don't even think most WWE wrestlers are able to obtain the WHC within the first few matches they have...LOL
Again, I was trying to not make it in to a flame war. If you got a problem with the shit I say your welcome to LMK if you actually want to explain it. I explained my side with trying to not be to BIASED, and explain my opinions. Figured everybody else (those who agree, disagree, and those who don't give a shit) could voice theres.

[ufoalf]

U dont know what you're talkin about. Simple as that. Pretty much go look for similar threads because its all cut-and-paste. Your arguments are that of a 10 year old boy. You brought nothing useful.

[Griip]

Once in a while theese stupid posts come alive, always the same but with different angles. You can't compare it like this. If a boxer would fight an MMA match he wouldn't use his normal guard, or normal defence stance.

If you were to fight in MMA using a boxing guard you'd never be knocked out, never. But the thing is: In MMA you can't stand still taking punches on your gloves like boxing. In MMA when you're rushed or rushing in it has to go fast, you have to beat the other guy to the punch, blocking punches is not as easy and not used very much. And getting out of a flurry/slug fest.. woh, that's where most of the KOs come from.

[Primenal]

Once in a while theese stupid posts come alive, always the same but with different angles. You can't compare it like this. If a boxer would fight an MMA match he wouldn't use his normal guard, or normal defence stance.

If you were to fight in MMA using a boxing guard you'd never be knocked out, never. But the thing is: In MMA you can't stand still taking punches on your gloves like boxing. In MMA when you're rushed or rushing in it has to go fast, you have to beat the other guy to the punch, blocking punches is not as easy and not used very much. And getting out of a flurry/slug fest.. woh, that's where most of the KOs come from.

Wow, actually somebody who explained something, and I do agree. I think there'd be a lot less KO's if they actually just kept there hands up though, didn't swing wildly, and bring there hands back to position. A few fighters seem to do this, but overall don't do a very good job. That's why I never liked Liddell...Dude could hit, but I'll be damned if he kept his hands up (that's why he got KTFO). Very sloppy.
Also, a lot of time when they go for a kick they usually drop those hands, and there chin is definitely open. Might think I'm being a little to critical, but when you train as hard as I'm guessing they do...You should practice not dropping your hand whenever you throw something...

[Killer Instinct]

ufc=glorified wwe

[Griip]

Well it's a lot about defending takedowns and kicks, in boxing you got 2 hands to be afraid of and in MMA 2 hands, 2 feet and takedowns.. + knees

[Polymath]

shut up!

[codeman99998]

Wow, actually somebody who explained something, and I do agree. I think there'd be a lot less KO's if they actually just kept there hands up though, didn't swing wildly, and bring there hands back to position. A few fighters seem to do this, but overall don't do a very good job. That's why I never liked Liddell...Dude could hit, but I'll be damned if he kept his hands up (that's why he got KTFO). Very sloppy.
Also, a lot of time when they go for a kick they usually drop those hands, and there chin is definitely open. Might think I'm being a little to critical, but when you train as hard as I'm guessing they do...You should practice not dropping your hand whenever you throw something...

LOL! SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY EXPLAINED SOMETHING!?

You're simply lucky he bothered to indulge your bullshit.

SHUT THE FUCK UP and go read the 1000 other pages in this forum that explain, in every minutia, the reasons that boxers cant just go to MMA and win.

Shit, the top tier KICKboxers in the world can't even go into MMA and win titles without lots of serious crosstraining.

[québecwarrior]

dumbass

[sitiyzal]

I'm starting to think all these devastating ko's from lame punches in mma are partly because of the small 4 oz gloves. Surely they can't all have such weak chins.

[Beebs]

Every boxer that enters into kickboxing competition gets beat up badly with kicks.

[Beebs]

Wow, actually somebody who explained something, and I do agree. I think there'd be a lot less KO's if they actually just kept there hands up though, didn't swing wildly, and bring there hands back to position. A few fighters seem to do this, but overall don't do a very good job. That's why I never liked Liddell...Dude could hit, but I'll be damned if he kept his hands up (that's why he got KTFO). Very sloppy.
Also, a lot of time when they go for a kick they usually drop those hands, and there chin is definitely open. Might think I'm being a little to critical, but when you train as hard as I'm guessing they do...You should practice not dropping your hand whenever you throw something...

Chuck kept his hands low so that whenever somebody shot for a takedown he would be able to use his wrestling background to sprawl and get double underhooks, it was the reason he was able to beat most people who tried to take him down.

[Primenal]

I'm starting to think all these devastating ko's from lame punches in mma are partly because of the small 4 oz gloves. Surely they can't all have such weak chins.

DON'T SAY THAT! Your gonna get called a 12 year old mental retard like I apparently am. That was exactly why I made the thread. I couldn't believe that these MMA superstars...Who are apparently in tip top shape (some of them definitely look it) getting KTFO by jabs, and shit!!
I agree with Griip, but still do believe a little of GREAT boxers have a good *chance* of beating a lot of MMA superstars with MMA rules. Good hands will win you a lot of battles, and I'm sure if any of these great boxers were to train to fight MMA for say 6 months they'd be very much ready to compete.
Anybody disagree with that statement? That in 6 months a GREAT boxer...Were talking about a prime Bernard Hopkins, RJJ, Vitali Klitshko, etc...Anybody think they STILL wouldn't stand a chance? If Kimbo gets knocked out with a jab from a no name dude that weighs 20 pounds less...I think Vitali jabs him, and paralyzes him.

[Beebs]

DON'T SAY THAT! Your gonna get called a 12 year old mental retard like I apparently am. That was exactly why I made the thread. I couldn't believe that these MMA superstars...Who are apparently in tip top shape (some of them definitely look it) getting KTFO by jabs, and shit!!
I agree with Griip, but still do believe a little of GREAT boxers have a good *chance* of beating a lot of MMA superstars with MMA rules. Good hands will win you a lot of battles, and I'm sure if any of these great boxers were to train to fight MMA for say 6 months they'd be very much ready to compete.
Anybody disagree with that statement? That in 6 months a GREAT boxer...Were talking about a prime Bernard Hopkins, RJJ, Vitali Klitshko, etc...Anybody think they STILL wouldn't stand a chance? If Kimbo gets knocked out with a jab from a no name dude that weighs 20 pounds less...I think Vitali jabs him, and paralyzes him.

Apparently you have been living in a cave, but this is not a hypothetical situation, many boxers have entered MMA, nearly without exception they have been beaten without any trouble at all.

6 months is not anywhere near enough time to stop somebody who is world class at putting people on the ground and break limbs.

[Beebs]

leBvuoDDo3U

sAIgNhVT3Zs

[sitiyzal]

Apparently you have been living in a cave, but this is not a hypothetical situation, many boxers have entered MMA, nearly without exception they have been beaten without any trouble at all.

6 months is not anywhere near enough time to stop somebody who is world class at putting people on the ground and break limbs.

Jeremy Williams is 5-0 in mma, & even he is past his best as a boxer. The problem is most boxers are already shot & aren't even willing to put in required the training for mma when they "cross over", if you can even call it that.

....why the fuck noobs keep posting Erikson-Skelton in these discussions is beyond me. It was essentially a wrestler vs kickboxer. A kickboxer who switched to boxing after that, showed no speed or talent to speak of & was nothing more than a domestic level fighter.

[Shareef]

Well the ground fighting and leg kicks the boxer woudl have no answer for those aspects of the fight or the thai clinch. But i do agree on average mma fighters cannot take a punch as good as boxers. The 4oz gloves are no doubt smaller than 8oz or 10oz pro boxing gloves, but remember this boxers sued to box with 6oz gloves for example Archie Moore vs. Rocky Marciano they wore 6oz gloves and it was a war. In older generations the fighters wore smaller gloves than today in boxing and they took better punches. But it should be expected because the premium is on punching in boxing whereas mma is well rounded so it should be expected that mma fighters would not take as good a punch as a boxer.

[MaliSlamusrex]

comparing boxing and mma is like like saying who has better accuracy a darts payer or a golf player, the only reason somone would post these comments is because they dont understand mma or boxing, or common sense.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Boxing is the most limited "fighting" sport in the world. Not only are the clearly not the best fighters, they aren't even the best strikers. That is just the reality of the situation. It is a lot easier to take punches when you are not only wearing boxing gloves... but also don't have to keep an eye out for kicks high and low, knees, elbows, clinches, takedowns, ect... You can't simply watch for punches coming at you and brace for them. Use your head.

[Primenal]

Boxing is the most limited "fighting" sport in the world. Not only are the clearly not the best fighters, they aren't even the best strikers. That is just the reality of the situation. It is a lot easier to take punches when you are not only wearing boxing gloves... but also don't have to keep an eye out for kicks high and low, knees, elbows, clinches, takedowns, ect... You can't simply watch for punches coming at you and brace for them. Use your head.

Yeah, guess watching somebodies feet, and then them cracking you with a big punch would increase the KO ratio a little bit. The punch that hurts the most is the one you don't see coming.
As for the attempt of trying to post some random crap boxer...That's not what I'm talking about. I said a GREAT boxer who's still in his prime/ close to his prime. This means like a world champion...
I guess if UFC fighters ever nearly make the $ the big time pro boxers do then we may actually get to see this one day. I think a guy who's in good shape, great chin, knows how to use his hands, and mentally tough...Could easily learn enough MMA craft (kicks, blocks, knees, etc) to beat a lot of MMA fighters.
Take one look at Lesnar! All he has is a wrestling background...No striking abilities...and he is WHC. Next your going to be see bobby Lashley hit the big times. I'm amazed 2 big goons could enter the sport with only wrestling ability (and haven't used it in years), and yet they can succeed whenever people are striking...but yet somebody who's been boxing for years couldn't possibly do well.....:nut

[Sweet Pea]

Terrible logic, but it's the same case with pretty much anyone who doesn't understand MMA or physics. I still get a laugh out of boxing fans claiming the larger the glove the more damaging the punch when it's in fact the exact opposite. MMA gloves equal a much smaller, more concentrated area of contact with less absorption in the glove itself, leading to much easier KO's, as they're far more accurate and direct on the button if landed clean.

You can't just assume everyone who fights in a particular sport has a genetically weak chin either, and I hope you don't. That is completely illogical.

Also, it's quite obvious that a boxer destroys an MMA fighter in a boxing match, and vice versa. MMA fighters stand with other MMA fighters who generally aren't supposed to have any distinct advantage in the standup department. If the opponent is clearly the better striker, the other fighter will attempt to take the fight to the ground. A boxer would obviously be too much to handle for most MMA fighters (though not the top Muay Thai fighters of kickboxers, as they have far too many effective tools for a boxer who uses only his hands) on the feet, which is why an MMA fighter wouldn't attempt to stand with them like they would another similarly-skilled MMA fighter, they'd take them right to the ground. Obviously, being a boxing fan, you don't think it would be that easy. Trust me (and it's been proven before on countless occasions, including with boxers who've tried their hand at MMA), if the boxer has no martial arts experience (primarily wrestling) outside of boxing, it is exactly that easy.

Also, as I said previously, the best standup fighters in the world aren't boxers, that title would belong to the cream of the Muay Thai and kickboxing crop. Boxers have two attack points to work with, lefty and righty, whereas the top Muay Thai fighters have 8 (hands, elbows, knees, kicks). Not to mention any clinch that would occur would greatly favor the Muay Thai fighter, as they're extremely well schooled at fighting with non-boxing techniques and using different digits (primarily the knees) from that position. Not many MMA fighters are on this level, but they are quite a few class Muay Thai stylists in MMA (Anderson Silva being one), along with skilled kickboxers.

In short, no single style is more effective than being efficient in multiple styles, because if that one style martial artist holds an edge in his department, the multi-skilled fighter can easily take him out of his game by implying a different style, one the single stylist can't cope with. This was proven in the early days of the UFC and has been proven with even greater effect since then when single style martial artists have tried to prove their hand against mixed martial artists. Maybe once in a blue moon they'll get lucky, but the majority of the time, they're just far too limited, boxers included.

[Sweet Pea]

I think a guy who's in good shape, great chin, knows how to use his hands, and mentally tough...Could easily learn enough MMA craft (kicks, blocks, knees, etc) to beat a lot of MMA fighters.
In that case, I could say a guy who's in good shape, great chin, knows how to grapple, is mentally though, etc could easily learn boxing craft to beat a lot of boxers.

In MMA you're learning multiple different styles, whereas with boxing you're only learning one your entire life. That's the main reason boxing is harder to break into or make a name for yourself in. You'd have to train at only one aspect (along with every other boxer looking to make a name for themselves or that are already at the top) consistently to make it to the top, if you had the ability in the first place. With MMA, if you have a strong background in one or two martial arts, you already have a strong base with which to pattern your MMA game around, which is generally why it doesn't take as long to break into MMA as it does boxing. You don't need to be an expert in the other disciplines, you just need to to know them well and be able to use them well to compliment your other skills. Typically grappling backgrounds are better than striking backgrounds if you're starting out in MMA though, as it's easier for a wrestler/grappler to gain the advantage over a strictly stand-up fighter by simply getting a hold of them and getting them down (once again, if the boxer has no experience in that area, it is that easy).

The reason a guy like Lesnar can make a splash like he did in MMA is because of not only his wrestling background, but because of his ridiculous physical abilities which, when combined with technique, make for a near unstoppable force to be tied up with. Not to mention he was fighting another wrestler (and a much smaller one) when he won the title from Couture. If you'll recall, Lesnar was submitted in around a minute in his first UFC appearance without the experience or BJJ skills needed.

[Calroid]

Nicely stated Sweet Pea.:good

[Coast]

I wonder if it ever occured to the TS that wearing 4 OZ gloves and being able to immediately jump on downed opponents, hold them by the throat & hit them
has a little something do do with the KO ratio in MMA?

Hell, who am I kidding? Of course it wouldn't.

[Beebs]

Yeah, guess watching somebodies feet, and then them cracking you with a big punch would increase the KO ratio a little bit. The punch that hurts the most is the one you don't see coming.
As for the attempt of trying to post some random crap boxer...That's not what I'm talking about. I said a GREAT boxer who's still in his prime/ close to his prime. This means like a world champion...
I guess if UFC fighters ever nearly make the $ the big time pro boxers do then we may actually get to see this one day. I think a guy who's in good shape, great chin, knows how to use his hands, and mentally tough...Could easily learn enough MMA craft (kicks, blocks, knees, etc) to beat a lot of MMA fighters.
Take one look at Lesnar! All he has is a wrestling background...No striking abilities...and he is WHC. Next your going to be see bobby Lashley hit the big times. I'm amazed 2 big goons could enter the sport with only wrestling ability (and haven't used it in years), and yet they can succeed whenever people are striking...but yet somebody who's been boxing for years couldn't possibly do well.....:nut

The difference being that wrestling ability is about 100% more useable; there have been a long list of champion wrestlers moving into MMA; there is no list of boxers doing it.

[Beebs]

Jeremy Williams is 5-0 in mma, & even he is past his best as a boxer. The problem is most boxers are already shot & aren't even willing to put in required the training for mma when they "cross over", if you can even call it that.

....why the fuck noobs keep posting Erikson-Skelton in these discussions is beyond me. It was essentially a wrestler vs kickboxer. A kickboxer who switched to boxing after that, showed no speed or talent to speak of & was nothing more than a domestic level fighter.

Jeremy Willams has fought guys who are 0-0 or 0-1.

Do you really think Skelton being a better boxer would have done him any fucking good at all? Do you think that it was his lack of boxing that got him tossed like a child and choked like an unruly prostitute?

[sitiyzal]

Jeremy Willams has fought guys who are 0-0 or 0-1.



Yeah, amongst other journeymen so far



Do you really think Skelton being a better boxer would have done him any fucking good at all?

:rofl....obviously.

Do you think that it was his lack of boxing that got him tossed like a child and choked like an unruly prostitute?

What? It was because he was an average kickboxer against a great wrestler....which bring us back to the question of why you keep posting that clip in a fuckin mma & boxing discussion.

[Beebs]

Yeah, amongst other journeymen so far



:rofl....obviously.



What? It was because he was an average kickboxer against a great wrestler....which bring us back to the question of why you keep posting that clip in a fuckin mma & boxing discussion.

Because Skelton obviously has the talent to be a good boxer, he obviously had at least 6 months to prepare for an Erikson who as talented as he was never really got a career going and is a part time fighter.

It is not exactly what is being discussed, but it is the closest thing in existence, and the problem has nothing to do with boxing ability, it has to do with basic physics; its about 100x more likely for a great wrestler to get a clinch on a great boxer before the boxer lands a KO punch.

Basically the boxer has one opportunity window that lasts about a half a second where the wrestler is in the middle of a takedown, unless he ends the fight, every time, right then, it is over.

When it is a fighter like a prime Nog who ate a full on headkick from CroCop and a piledriver from bob sapp, there is no opportunity whatsoever, the fight is over the second it is signed.

[Polymath]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Bokaj]

I really like UFC and probably enjoy it more than I enjoy boxing today, but their boxing skills are often quite awful. Rampage is one of the better boxers in UFC and he closed his eyes at times when throwing punches for fucks sake. This doesn't even happen in amateur boxing at a decent level. Lidell is also one of the better boxers, but the way he left himself open against Evans... Bushleague.

I've only seen three UFC fighters with decent-good boxing skills: A. Silva, Penn and The Irish Handgrenade (forgot his name) who of course is a boxer orginally. It would be nice to see more MMA-fighters with a solid boxing background.

[ufoalf]

when it is a fighter like a prime Nog who ate a full on headkick from CroCop and a piledriver from bob sapp, there is no opportunity whatsoever, the fight is over the second it is signed.

Im just waiting for another idiot to claim good boxers punch > crocop kick. I remember someone saying Mike Tyson hits twice hard than Crocop kicks :lol:

[Trevor Ross]

Mma takeover!!! Exciting fights tonight!!! What does boxing got lined up lets see next month sugar shane vs margarrito !! Shane 10 yrs past prime!! What a joke Hey! They're both awesome sports, and both Boxing and NHB have been around forever and will never die, and Boxing does not have a 3-1 rookie as their HW champ either. That's my jab back lol. Boxing can learn from the UFC's fine production, and MMA can learn from Boxing's ranking system.

[MMAFIGHTER1]

Wow thats just 2 funny 2 me well 1st of i dont think boxers can take better shots lets look at this realistically in boxing the gloves are twice as big and its just that a boxing match meaning most of the punches that land are jabs not power shots which is good 4 scoring points 2 win boxing matches. on the other hand with MMA the jab is under ultlized so most of the punches are power shots so of course your gonna take less overall shots esp with 4 ounce gloves:yikes

[Wilhelm]

DON'T SAY THAT! Your gonna get called a 12 year old mental retard like I apparently am. That was exactly why I made the thread. I couldn't believe that these MMA superstars...Who are apparently in tip top shape (some of them definitely look it) getting KTFO by jabs, and shit!!
I agree with Griip, but still do believe a little of GREAT boxers have a good *chance* of beating a lot of MMA superstars with MMA rules. Good hands will win you a lot of battles, and I'm sure if any of these great boxers were to train to fight MMA for say 6 months they'd be very much ready to compete.
Anybody disagree with that statement? That in 6 months a GREAT boxer...Were talking about a prime Bernard Hopkins, RJJ, Vitali Klitshko, etc...Anybody think they STILL wouldn't stand a chance? If Kimbo gets knocked out with a jab from a no name dude that weighs 20 pounds less...I think Vitali jabs him, and paralyzes him.

There is a very simple way for you to understand what people are trying it say here, and above and beyond this argument it would really help you enjoy MMA more. This is not flaming, this is 100% serious.

step #1: Pick a friend of yours that is into this stuff as much as you are. Go train in boxing for a week or a month or six months or whatever, and have him train in wrestling for that same amount of time.
step #2: Go to the gym or back yard or living room and have you put on some thin bag gloves (so you don't poke him in the eye or something) and have you do your boxing thing and him do his wrestling thing. If you can hurt him with punches before he gets you down, you get a point. If he takes you down before you can land a good clean punch (you don't need to go full blast, just something that would really stun someone "if you meant it") he gets a point. First to ten points wins.
step#3: Once you lose the game, try to figure out what you would do differently to give yourself a better chance next time, and think about what effects that would have on you from a boxing perspective.

You'll learn that:
-A good bit of the technical points of a "normal" boxing stance make defending takedowns a lot harder (same with leg kicks, which you would learn if you decide to go further).
-When you're thinking about someone grabbing your legs or torso to go for a takedown, your form in throwing punches will be adversely affected.
-The gross body attack of a clinch takedown or takedown from a single or double leg shot is a MUCH HIGHER PERCENTAGE ATTACK than the fine point attack of landing punches.
-The reason that top wrestlers can go into MMA and win right away and boxers can’t is because if you’re going to be really, really good at just one thing, it’s best if the one thing is the more useful and high percentage technique. Tae kwon do masters are probably the best in the world and spinning jumping hook kicks, but because they’re such a low percentage and difficult thing to do against a resisting opponent, they don’t make it anywhere in MMA. If you're into the SAT, a double leg takedown is to a right cross as a right cross is to a spinning jumping hook kick. This is not criticizing boxing, it is just COMPARING it.


Seriously, do this. It will be a lot of fun and will make watching MMA a lot more fun and will change the way you look at all combat sports. :good

[cdnboxing]

Physically stronger means nothing. Watch UFC 1 and get back to us.

Art Jimmerson isnt exactly a great example.

[cdnboxing]

And in terms of standup, I have no doubt an athletic elite boxer would destroy an MMA fighter. But thats on their feet. If the MMA fighter was smart he'd take the fight to the ground.

And for people who say oh its different a boxer would lose in MMA even on their feet need to listen to other MMA fighters like Frank Shamrock, Joe Stevenson etc who said that an elite boxer would be very difficult to handle on their feet therefore they'd acoid striking with them altogether and take them down. I think people need to look at last nights event which saw a bunch of MMA fighters beatdown K-1 level strikers. If you can honestly tell me that an elite boxer couldnt do the same than im speechless. A 40 year old Botha went into K-1 and defeated 2 top 10 HWs meanwhile he NEVER did that in boxing in HIS PRIME. There are alot of wrestlers, BJJ and mediocre boxers in MMA who can take low and body kicks no problem so I see no reason that an elite boxer couldnt do the same.

In terms of whos got the better chins etc. There are a few fighters in MMA who can take a punch. But the biggest difference is that boxers can take an accumulation of punishment throughout a fight.

If you take a look at the Mir/Nog fight, as mediocre as Mirs boxing was he would have knocked down Nog 3 times if that was a boxing rules fight. And Mir isnt exactly heavy handed.

And the way MMA fighters box would be tailor made for an elite boxer. They leave way too many openings and would be caught off balance numerous times.

Lastly, I dont think any MMA fans think MMA fighters could go toe to toe in boxing. That just would not happen and people who think so are delusional. The question is could they go toe - toe in MMA in terms of striking. Absolutely.

Did anybody watch Fight for the Troop Fight Night by the UFC, You had fighters with their chin out, swinging from their hips, it was brutal to watch. And if you watched the Silva/Rampage fight its quite evident how much Silva lacks in terms of striking ability. That guys style is just asking to be KO'd. Walks right into jabs, plods forward in straight lines, sticks his chin out, throws wide punches from his hips and NEVER throws punches in straight lines.

That guys striking is amatuerish.

[codeman99998]

And in terms of standup, I have no doubt an athletic elite boxer would destroy an MMA fighter. But thats on their feet. If the MMA fighter was smart he'd take the fight to the ground.

And for people who say oh its different a boxer would lose in MMA even on their feet need to listen to other MMA fighters like Frank Shamrock, Joe Stevenson etc who said that an elite boxer would be very difficult to handle on their feet therefore they'd acoid striking with them altogether and take them down. I think people need to look at last nights event which saw a bunch of MMA fighters beatdown K-1 level strikers. If you can honestly tell me that an elite boxer couldnt do the same than im speechless. A 40 year old Botha went into K-1 and defeated 2 top 10 HWs meanwhile he NEVER did that in boxing in HIS PRIME. There are alot of wrestlers, BJJ and mediocre boxers in MMA who can take low and body kicks no problem so I see no reason that an elite boxer couldnt do the same.

In terms of whos got the better chins etc. There are a few fighters in MMA who can take a punch. But the biggest difference is that boxers can take an accumulation of punishment throughout a fight.

If you take a look at the Mir/Nog fight, as mediocre as Mirs boxing was he would have knocked down Nog 3 times if that was a boxing rules fight. And Mir isnt exactly heavy handed.

And the way MMA fighters box would be tailor made for an elite boxer. They leave way too many openings and would be caught off balance numerous times.

Lastly, I dont think any MMA fans think MMA fighters could go toe to toe in boxing. That just would not happen and people who think so are delusional. The question is could they go toe - toe in MMA in terms of striking. Absolutely.

Did anybody watch Fight for the Troop Fight Night by the UFC, You had fighters with their chin out, swinging from their hips, it was brutal to watch. And if you watched the Silva/Rampage fight its quite evident how much Silva lacks in terms of striking ability. That guys style is just asking to be KO'd. Walks right into jabs, plods forward in straight lines, sticks his chin out, throws wide punches from his hips and NEVER throws punches in straight lines.

That guys striking is amatuerish.

You put a boxer in with Anderson Silva in an MMA match and Silva wins the standup. You put a guy in with Antoni Hardonk in an MMA match and Hardonk wins the standup. Same with prime crocop and others.

Boxers don't know how to kick...

[cdnboxing]

Wow thats just 2 funny 2 me well 1st of i dont think boxers can take better shots lets look at this realistically in boxing the gloves are twice as big and its just that a boxing match meaning most of the punches that land are jabs not power shots which is good 4 scoring points 2 win boxing matches. on the other hand with MMA the jab is under ultlized so most of the punches are power shots so of course your gonna take less overall shots esp with 4 ounce gloves:yikes

Actually the jab is utilized quite a bit in MMA especially as of late. Penn beat Sherk with it.

Jabs arent so much about scoring points but rather keeping your distance between your opponent. A jab is an extremely important weapon.

And you dont have to have a great chin to be good in MMA. Hell, you cna be fighting at a high level and never have had your chin tested. In boxing thats impossible, its tested early and if you dont have a chin you wont have a career.

And with MMA and boxing the ranges are different, and boxers for the most part sit down on their punches which allow them to generate more power. Even Frank Shamrock was saying something along these lines and he said the boxing ability in MMA is still terrible. MMA still has alot of people who punch with their arms and not their whole body.

And people have to remember thats it often not how hard the punch is that KO people, its the punches that fighters dont see coming.

In that case its a CHIN issue but rather a skill issue. So if you're seeing multiple KO's on a UFC main card it might be more attributable to their striking ability than their chins. Silva and Nog were vulnerable all night and the punches they got caught with they didnt even see coming.

Thats a problem.

[cdnboxing]

You put a boxer in with Anderson Silva in an MMA match and Silva wins the standup. You put a guy in with Antoni Hardonk in an MMA match and Hardonk wins the standup. Same with prime crocop and others.

Boxers don't know how to kick...

You dont have to know how to kick.

[codeman99998]

You dont have to know how to kick.


Type in "boxer versus kickboxer" on youtube.

This one is nice [Only registered and activated users can see links] .

[chuffy]

Type in "boxer versus kickboxer" on youtube.

This one is nice [Only registered and activated users can see links] .


Codeman, that reminded me of this ...

lXgspempESU

[ufoalf]

You dont have to know how to kick.


:rofl
Watch above. CDNboxing, its unfortunate that you're convinced you know a lot instead of having an open mind. Very unfortunate. But all evidence will not favor boxer in stand up. Boxing excel at boxing, no one can take that away from them. If its a stand up fight using only ur hands and you can't clinch, boxers will win almost every time except one of those freak KOs. If you put a boxer in a full contact stand up fight, he's gona have to be carried off the ring with broken legs. It is what it is.

As much as you think you know about boxing. You know nothing about anything else it seems but you fake it well. I absolutely agree with you that you do not have to know how to kick. Hell, you don't need to know how to box or wrestle either. Just get a desk job.

If you wanna do MMA combat, you gona have to learn how to kick, box, and grapple. The overwhelming evidence shows that excelling at grappling takes you much farther in the sport of MMA. But to be top MMA fighter you will need all the factors at high level.

[sitiyzal]

Type in "boxer versus kickboxer" on youtube.

This one is nice [Only registered and activated users can see links] .

another retarded example.

[El Puma]

This fooking thread and topic sucks and is getting tiresome. Lets go do some Rugby-American football comparisons then.

[AJAX]

Everytime some chump starts a thread like this on the boxing side they always put it on this side as if anybody wants it around here.

[Hermit]

i completely agree with the TS

The 'uneducated' circle the wagons....:lol:

[Hermit]

After reading your post I have come to the simple conclusion your are an idiot!:-(

Yeah. What is a clinch but two guys hugging to stall. In MMA, that doesn't stop the action. Just like in a real fight. What a concept. A real fight. Either you understand, or you don't. That is the origin of MMA. Find out what works, what doesn't.

[Hermit]

Once in a while theese stupid posts come alive, always the same but with different angles. You can't compare it like this. If a boxer would fight an MMA match he wouldn't use his normal guard, or normal defence stance.

My son was telling me he read an article about an MMA fighter taking a fight that allowed groin kicks. COMPLETELY changed what he had to do. Yeah. Boxing is the ULTIMATE in a street fight....:rofl

[Cobra33]

I've been hit by both gloves and i have to be honest:The MMA gloves will cause more cuts/bruises but the boxing gloves hurt more.Boxing gloves were designed to protect the hands and nothing else.Get hit by a pair of Reyes 12oz and tell me it doesn't hurt.

[codeman99998]

I've been hit by both gloves and i have to be honest:The MMA gloves will cause more cuts/bruises but the boxing gloves hurt more.Boxing gloves were designed to protect the hands and nothing else.Get hit by a pair of Reyes 12oz and tell me it doesn't hurt.

That makes no sense at all.

Yes, getting hit by someone wearing boxing gloves does hurt. The physics, however, do not agree with the assumption that it is easier to KO someone with boxing gloves on. Boxing gloves are much bigger, and therefore spread the force of the impact over a greater area, making it more difficult to KO your opponent.

Also, it is harder to get a KO with boxing gloves because the size of the gloves make it more difficult to land an extremely clean punch. The size of the glove also facilitates a lot more blocking and partial blocking.

[codeman99998]

This video was posted in the boxing forum:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Do you notice that in the STREET FIGHT situation, Ali-Frazier and Rahman-Lewis IMMEDIATELY went into clinch situations. Without a referee, Lewis and Rahman were fucking WRESTLING each other and these are UPPER UPPER echelon boxers.

[Cobra33]

you can't hit as hard with 4oz.You will mess up your hands.Again boxing gloves are met to protect the hands therefore you can throw as hard as you want because padding is protecting your hands.
plus you ever seen boxers who get there hands wrapped before pro fights?Hard as a rock.

[codeman99998]

you can't hit as hard with 4oz.You will mess up your hands.Again boxing gloves are met to protect the hands therefore you can throw as hard as you want because padding is protecting your hands.
plus you ever seen boxers who get there hands wrapped before pro fights?Hard as a rock.

And that same padding doesnt protect the other dude's face?

[AJAX]

And that same padding doesnt protect the other dude's face?

haha you beat me too it this fellow seems to be a bit dilusional.

[Cobra33]

The padding protects the fighter's hand-it doesn't protect his head from the FORCE of the blow.You ever felt Reyes gloves?There freakin hard.
Why doesn't boxing use 4 oz gloves?It would destroy the fighters hands easily.Go hit a heavybag with 4oz gloves for a lengthy duration and your hands will be done.

[Primenal]

Type in "boxer versus kickboxer" on youtube.

This one is nice [Only registered and activated users can see links] .

LMAO! I don't want to be completely biased to MMA (again, as I stil watch it a bit), but would people STOP with these dumbass examples? Who the hell is that black guy? He isn't even in good shape! I got this video, and a video of BUTTERBEAN! :rofl:rofl
I'm not talking about Butterbean. I'm talking about a prime Mike Tyson, Pac, Mayweather, etc vs an MMA figher.
Alright, let's say Prime Tyson vs a crappy 220 pd UFC fighter. You don't think he stands a chance? An aggressive, but evasive pitbull like Tyson couldn't beat a crappy UFC fighter? Not only will I say that at standup (meaning kicks allowed) Tyson would kill a crappy UFC fighter...I guarantee if they'd take Tyson to the ground (any man his size) Tyson would overpower them, and give them some ground and pound! A prime 220 pound Tyson..I'm willing to bet nobody in UFC at 220 would be as physichally as strong.

I went to a MMA gym for about 3 months. The dudes were in great shape, *some* were decent fighters. I'm about 5'6 165 right now. I've lifted weights for years, and boxed for a while. NEVER wrestled in my life! I got to roll with people around my weight (155-180) who fight cage fights, and have for years, and these guys were as strong as small children to me. One guy tried to put me in a triangle, and I just pick him up and powerbomb him. Another guy tried some kind of armlock..Had both hands on my one arm, and still couldn't move it.
My point is some of these guys are in great shape (they were over there), but they lack strength. I don't give a shit what moves you know...If your doing them on somebody who's twice as powerful I bet 9/10 times you won't get them on him!

So, really about the only arguments you guys got that boxers couldn't stop/ have answers for would be leg kicks. Hands the boxer wins no matter what gloves. Movement the boxer wins. Wrestling it depends on the individuals (Again, no MMA fighter would be able to wrestle a boxer who's much stronger), Kicks the MMA fighter obviously wins (kicks to the head wouldn't work though as the boxer has a high guard).
Basically, I don't see why an aggressive, strong boxer (not a counter puncher, not a defensive master, not butterbean!) would have much trouble. Just jump on the MMA guy, and knock him out (You might take a leg kick in the process).

[Hermit]

LMAO! I don't want to be completely biased to MMA (again, as I stil watch it a bit), but would people STOP with these dumbass examples? Who the hell is that black guy? He isn't even in good shape! I got this video, and a video of BUTTERBEAN! :rofl:rofl
I'm not talking about Butterbean. I'm talking about a prime Mike Tyson, Pac, Mayweather, etc vs an MMA figher.
Alright, let's say Prime Tyson vs a crappy 220 pd UFC fighter. You don't think he stands a chance? An aggressive, but evasive pitbull like Tyson couldn't beat a crappy UFC fighter? Not only will I say that at standup (meaning kicks allowed) Tyson would kill a crappy UFC fighter...I guarantee if they'd take Tyson to the ground (any man his size) Tyson would overpower them, and give them some ground and pound! A prime 220 pound Tyson..I'm willing to bet nobody in UFC at 220 would be as physichally as strong.

I went to a MMA gym for about 3 months. The dudes were in great shape, *some* were decent fighters. I'm about 5'6 165 right now. I've lifted weights for years, and boxed for a while. NEVER wrestled in my life! I got to roll with people around my weight (155-180) who fight cage fights, and have for years, and these guys were as strong as small children to me. One guy tried to put me in a triangle, and I just pick him up and powerbomb him. Another guy tried some kind of armlock..Had both hands on my one arm, and still couldn't move it.
My point is some of these guys are in great shape (they were over there), but they lack strength. I don't give a shit what moves you know...If your doing them on somebody who's twice as powerful I bet 9/10 times you won't get them on him!

Quit you day job. You have a bright future against all the stiffs in MMA. :rofl

[Primenal]

Quit you day job. You have a bright future against all the stiffs in MMA. :rofl

I thought so to when I was training for it ;). The wrestling was pretty fun...At least when your the much stronger guy, but my god I was just sore as hell all the time. Never wanted to fight MMA...Just wanted to fight at the time, and that's the only reason I joined ;)
They never taught me jack shit over there though. Wasn't a class...More of a place to fight. That's why I had to powerbomb, and bodyslam people LOL.
Actually got to give the place credit though as they taught me how to get great conditioning, and am in a lot better shape because of it.
So, I don't dislike MMA. I just dislike a lot of people in it. Seems like a lot of guys who think there tough, and..There really not. Kimbo Slice is the perfect example. Having Lesnar as UFC champ isn't saying much either. Not taking anything away from Lesnar as he's so big and powerful hard for anybody to deal with. I just think after 3 fights (NO matter how famous he is) he shouldn't have a shot at the world title.....Doesn't say much for your sport.

[Hermit]

I thought so to when I was training for it ;). The wrestling was pretty fun...At least when your the much stronger guy, but my god I was just sore as hell all the time. Never wanted to fight MMA...Just wanted to fight at the time, and that's the only reason I joined ;)
They never taught me jack shit over there though. Wasn't a class...More of a place to fight. That's why I had to powerbomb, and bodyslam people LOL.
Actually got to give the place credit though as they taught me how to get great conditioning, and am in a lot better shape because of it.
So, I don't dislike MMA. I just dislike a lot of people in it. Seems like a lot of guys who think there tough, and..There really not. Kimbo Slice is the perfect example. Having Lesnar as UFC champ isn't saying much either. Not taking anything away from Lesnar as he's so big and powerful hard for anybody to deal with. I just think after 3 fights (NO matter how famous he is) he shouldn't have a shot at the world title.....Doesn't say much for your sport.

You sound young and are making some mistakes accordingly. You are using your limited experience at one gym, which by your own admission isn't very good, as a standard. Check out bullshido.com? Very interesting stuff on how to evaluate a gym.

Second, the UFC is NOT MMA. Lesnar was given the shot because they wanted to kill any chance of success that a fight between Coture? and Fedor might have. Plus, think Lockett and Pavlik. The ABC's of boxing are just as corrupt as the UFC when it comes to title shots. :deal

At this point the talent in boxing may be deeper because of the money and longevity, but that looks like it will change. Also, from what I can see, there are many more mma training sites than boxing sites popping up. Also, in my area, there are a lot more events. It is growing quite rapidly. Pavlik is the local boy, but interest in boxing isn't really piquing that much other than his career.

The real question for your conjecture though, if you take Mike Tyson's lost twin brother and train him in MMA and put him up against Mike, who wins? I say the guy with the most tools in his bag is most likely to take it.

[codeman99998]

LMAO! I don't want to be completely biased to MMA (again, as I stil watch it a bit), but would people STOP with these dumbass examples? Who the hell is that black guy? He isn't even in good shape! I got this video, and a video of BUTTERBEAN! :rofl:rofl
I'm not talking about Butterbean. I'm talking about a prime Mike Tyson, Pac, Mayweather, etc vs an MMA figher.
Alright, let's say Prime Tyson vs a crappy 220 pd UFC fighter. You don't think he stands a chance? An aggressive, but evasive pitbull like Tyson couldn't beat a crappy UFC fighter? Not only will I say that at standup (meaning kicks allowed) Tyson would kill a crappy UFC fighter...I guarantee if they'd take Tyson to the ground (any man his size) Tyson would overpower them, and give them some ground and pound! A prime 220 pound Tyson..I'm willing to bet nobody in UFC at 220 would be as physichally as strong.

I went to a MMA gym for about 3 months. The dudes were in great shape, *some* were decent fighters. I'm about 5'6 165 right now. I've lifted weights for years, and boxed for a while. NEVER wrestled in my life! I got to roll with people around my weight (155-180) who fight cage fights, and have for years, and these guys were as strong as small children to me. One guy tried to put me in a triangle, and I just pick him up and powerbomb him. Another guy tried some kind of armlock..Had both hands on my one arm, and still couldn't move it.
My point is some of these guys are in great shape (they were over there), but they lack strength. I don't give a shit what moves you know...If your doing them on somebody who's twice as powerful I bet 9/10 times you won't get them on him!

So, really about the only arguments you guys got that boxers couldn't stop/ have answers for would be leg kicks. Hands the boxer wins no matter what gloves. Movement the boxer wins. Wrestling it depends on the individuals (Again, no MMA fighter would be able to wrestle a boxer who's much stronger), Kicks the MMA fighter obviously wins (kicks to the head wouldn't work though as the boxer has a high guard).
Basically, I don't see why an aggressive, strong boxer (not a counter puncher, not a defensive master, not butterbean!) would have much trouble. Just jump on the MMA guy, and knock him out (You might take a leg kick in the process).

Arthur Williams is a former IBF cruiserweight champion, he may not be a prime Mike Tyson, but he is a legit boxer.

You are right though. Tyson is a strong dude. There is no reason that a NCAA collegiate wrestling champion or an olympic medalist wrestler would be able to take him down and hold him down.

Amateur wrestling experience means NOTHING. Everyone knows Tyson was so strong that no one could take him down. Sure, we never got the chance to ever see how he could handle a takedown attempt from a cream of the crop, prime, excellent, olympic caliber wrestler (you know, a guy who has devoted his whole life to taking people down and keeping them down.) but we all DO know Tyson is strong. Of course he could resist it.

And, as we all know, Tyson won all of his fights by first round KO. Tyson didn't just win by first round KO. but FIRST PUNCH KO every fight. If Tyson lands one punch on anybody it is lights out! Nobody has ever beaten Tyson in a boxing match, and nobody has ever even hurt him. Nobody can take one punch from Tyson without tasting the canvass.

Normally a punch from Mike Tyson will KILL YOU.

Tyson eats leg kicks for breakfast. Sure, we never saw him ever take one. Sure, every single other time that someone faces a fighter with great leg kicks who has no idea how to defend them they end up fucked up. BUT BOXERS CAN'T BE HURT BY LEG KICKS LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE CAN! BOXERS ARE FUCKING GODS WHO ARE IMMUNE TO THE THINGS THAT MOST HUMAN BEINGS CAN BE FUCKED UP BY!

MMA fighters are just humans, and can be beat by human methods. Mike Tyson comes straight from the jizzum of Zeus himself and cannot possibly be beaten by the proven techniques of MMA fighters.

I stand fucking corrected.

[Primenal]

LMAO. Your sarcasm is quite skilled codeman, but you did take my post a little out of context. I said Mike Tyson vs a MMA *bum* at his weight! I didn't say Mike Tyson vs Olympic gold medalist, or NCAA Champion. I didn't even say Mike Tyson vs Brock Lesnar because he's much bigger, and more powerful.
And yes leg kicks can mess ya up no doubt! Even an animal like Tyson couldn't take many since he doesn't know how to defend. Like I said though if all he had to take was 1 or so, and with his aggression/ strength, PLUS 4 oz gloves you don't think he knocks out 50% of MMA guys quick enough to not take to much damage???

Hermit: I agree I make mistakes accordingly. I've boxed, and lifted for a while. Never sparred that much (not many boxing gyms around here), so found a MMA gym with a lot of guys, and just wanted to fight. It wasn't a great gym to learn from, but a great gym for me to spar at. As for boxing I completley agree...It's 10x more corrupt than MMA/ UFC...whatever you want to refer it to. That doesn't change the fact that a man with 3 fights (1 of which was a loss anyways) is now the HW champ, and a lot of hardcore MMA fans hate Brock Lesnar anyways as it makes there sport look like anybody can do it.
Also, as for the strength factor, and me saying somebody like Tyson overpowers basically any guy roughly his size in mma (no matter what they know). Look no further than Brock Lesnar to prove my point. The guy is freakin HORRIBLE. Honestly I don't even know how he won a NCAA championship, and can't believe he trains in any combat really! He picks up a guy, throws him down, and beats him on the top of the head with arm punches! I think if he gave the guy a noogie (sp) it'd hurt worse than his punches. He should have finished couture off easily. Why does he win, and look unbeatable though right now? Simply cuz nobody can overpower the dude unless there skill set is amazing. Of course Tyson doesn't have the wrestling background that Brock has (although I really can't believe it's the same guy!) naturally your body wants to grab, and wrestle (unless you train for something else), and natural instincts (SURVIVAL INSTINCTS) on top of Mike Tyson's power would be enough for him to get out of a lot of shit.

[Wilhelm]

LMAO! I don't want to be completely biased to MMA (again, as I stil watch it a bit), but would people STOP with these dumbass examples? Who the hell is that black guy? He isn't even in good shape! I got this video, and a video of BUTTERBEAN! :rofl:rofl
I'm not talking about Butterbean. I'm talking about a prime Mike Tyson, Pac, Mayweather, etc vs an MMA figher.
Alright, let's say Prime Tyson vs a crappy 220 pd UFC fighter. You don't think he stands a chance? An aggressive, but evasive pitbull like Tyson couldn't beat a crappy UFC fighter? Not only will I say that at standup (meaning kicks allowed) Tyson would kill a crappy UFC fighter...I guarantee if they'd take Tyson to the ground (any man his size) Tyson would overpower them, and give them some ground and pound! A prime 220 pound Tyson..I'm willing to bet nobody in UFC at 220 would be as physichally as strong.

I went to a MMA gym for about 3 months. The dudes were in great shape, *some* were decent fighters. I'm about 5'6 165 right now. I've lifted weights for years, and boxed for a while. NEVER wrestled in my life! I got to roll with people around my weight (155-180) who fight cage fights, and have for years, and these guys were as strong as small children to me. One guy tried to put me in a triangle, and I just pick him up and powerbomb him. Another guy tried some kind of armlock..Had both hands on my one arm, and still couldn't move it.
My point is some of these guys are in great shape (they were over there), but they lack strength. I don't give a shit what moves you know...If your doing them on somebody who's twice as powerful I bet 9/10 times you won't get them on him!

So, really about the only arguments you guys got that boxers couldn't stop/ have answers for would be leg kicks. Hands the boxer wins no matter what gloves. Movement the boxer wins. Wrestling it depends on the individuals (Again, no MMA fighter would be able to wrestle a boxer who's much stronger), Kicks the MMA fighter obviously wins (kicks to the head wouldn't work though as the boxer has a high guard).
Basically, I don't see why an aggressive, strong boxer (not a counter puncher, not a defensive master, not butterbean!) would have much trouble. Just jump on the MMA guy, and knock him out (You might take a leg kick in the process).

So we're to assume that because of your experience in a lousy gym and that fact that you (for some reason) consider Mike Tyson to be to "strong" to wrestle, any MMA event where a smaller fighter beat much larger and stronger ones on the ground (early UFCs? Royce Gracie?) is meaningless? Come on.

Also, why does it that only a great boxer (which you're almost defining as one who hasn't done MMA or kickboxing and ever will) counts in your comparison? Why not a mediocore boxer vs. a mediocore wrestler or kickboxer? At what point in their boxing career do the become too quick and strong so that no wrestler can ever take them down and no kickboxer could ever kick them? Like I told the TS, wrestling is a much more high percentage move than punching, so if you're going to be really good at one thing, it's better to be good at that. That is not an insult to boxing as a sport of as self defense, it's just an obvious analysis of what MMA has been displaying for years.

[Spunik]

LMAO. Your sarcasm is quite skilled codeman, but you did take my post a little out of context. I said Mike Tyson vs a MMA *bum* at his weight! I didn't say Mike Tyson vs Olympic gold medalist, or NCAA Champion. I didn't even say Mike Tyson vs Brock Lesnar because he's much bigger, and more powerful.
And yes leg kicks can mess ya up no doubt! Even an animal like Tyson couldn't take many since he doesn't know how to defend. Like I said though if all he had to take was 1 or so, and with his aggression/ strength, PLUS 4 oz gloves you don't think he knocks out 50% of MMA guys quick enough to not take to much damage???

Hermit: I agree I make mistakes accordingly. I've boxed, and lifted for a while. Never sparred that much (not many boxing gyms around here), so found a MMA gym with a lot of guys, and just wanted to fight. It wasn't a great gym to learn from, but a great gym for me to spar at. As for boxing I completley agree...It's 10x more corrupt than MMA/ UFC...whatever you want to refer it to. That doesn't change the fact that a man with 3 fights (1 of which was a loss anyways) is now the HW champ, and a lot of hardcore MMA fans hate Brock Lesnar anyways as it makes there sport look like anybody can do it.
Also, as for the strength factor, and me saying somebody like Tyson overpowers basically any guy roughly his size in mma (no matter what they know). Look no further than Brock Lesnar to prove my point. The guy is freakin HORRIBLE. Honestly I don't even know how he won a NCAA championship, and can't believe he trains in any combat really! He picks up a guy, throws him down, and beats him on the top of the head with arm punches! I think if he gave the guy a noogie (sp) it'd hurt worse than his punches. He should have finished couture off easily. Why does he win, and look unbeatable though right now? Simply cuz nobody can overpower the dude unless there skill set is amazing. Of course Tyson doesn't have the wrestling background that Brock has (although I really can't believe it's the same guy!) naturally your body wants to grab, and wrestle (unless you train for something else), and natural instincts (SURVIVAL INSTINCTS) on top of Mike Tyson's power would be enough for him to get out of a lot of shit.


u should apply to be on the Ultimate Fighter...

[Cobra33]

The iceman never wrestled and he was succesful in MMA.

[Dostoevsky]

The iceman never wrestled and he was succesful in MMA.

Ho fucking ho, you just exposed yourself as not knowing what the fuck you're talking about. :deal

[Beebs]

The iceman never wrestled and he was succesful in MMA.

He was the catian of the cal poly wrestling team. Know what the fuck you are talking about or shut the duck up

[Dostoevsky]

"shut the duck up"

:rofl :rofl

[Beebs]

Anybody who thinks tyson could grapple a bantamweight let alone somebody in his weight class is an idiot. Strength only comes I to play of the skill is similar, which it absolutely is not. Tyson isn't even all that strong, nowhere near as strong as even lightheayweight like rampage.

Miguel torres would sub tyson in under a minute on the ground

[Beebs]

"shut the duck up"

:rofl :rofl

These damn iPhone keys

[Primenal]

Anybody who thinks tyson could grapple a bantamweight let alone somebody in his weight class is an idiot. Strength only comes I to play of the skill is similar, which it absolutely is not. Tyson isn't even all that strong, nowhere near as strong as even lightheayweight like rampage.

Miguel torres would sub tyson in under a minute on the ground

Strength, and size doesn't matter? What ya talking about? If that were the case why does boxing have weight divisions? Why does UFC even have weight divisions? a bantamweight UFC outgrapples Tyson? Yeah, I'm sure he knows more moves, but somebody much bigger would just pick up the little guy, and snap him in half like a twig.
I remember there was a story with an old time bodybuilder being at a party. A guy who was very skilled in martial arts (much smaller) tries to pick a fight with him. He picks up the guy, and throws him down a flight of steps!
I do agree experience, knowledge, etc are more important than size/ strength, BUT there is a certain point trying to grapple somebody is MEANINGLESS! I consider myself very strong for 165 (I keep up with most 200 pounders at the gym for strength)...YET, if I had a 250 pd muscle man about to attack me I'm NOT grabbing the guy! I'm going to try to destroy him before he touches me, and if he does get ahold of me...Eyes, throat, balls! I'm not gonna try to wrestle around with him on the ground, and put him in a leg lock. Probably cuz 9/10 times I SIMPLY CANT!
I know my limitations...Much like how UFC fighters have theres!

[rusty nails]

What you mean they wouldn't know what to do against leg kicks? These guys study there opponents for MONTHS! Pac vs De La Hoya...Pac knew exactly what he was going to do to De La Hoya for instance, and his gameplan went perfectly. It's because he STUIDED a tape, made his gameplan, and worked months to fights Oscar De La Hoya. If he were fighting Floyd mayweather it might be different.
What I'm trying to say...Is a boxer would watch how the UFC fighter fights!! I'm no pro boxer, no pro trainer, and used to go to an MMA gym for a while, BUT I could watch one of these guys and tell you exactly my gameplan, and how I would deal with there kicks.
You got better hands? you take a good punch? You can't kick ya say? Well, your ass needs to get on the inside, use your hands, beat him to the punch, and take his ass out! If he charges in to grab you DRILL him with a combo to stop him (including an uppercut would be nice).
Of course nothing in life works out perfectly like you thought it would, but some of the matchups you could make MMA vs Pro boxing sound REDICULOUS!

and as for the 7 oz glove question...You have somewhat of a point, but I don't believe to many fights would change. I mean chances are if you can take getting punched in the face say 20 times for say 12 rounds (220 times) I'm willing to bet your pretty used to getting HIT in general, and willing to bet you can take a punch.
You mean to tell me you think Margarito could get bombs dropped on him from Cotto for 11 rounds with 8 oz gloves...Yet some 150 pound MMA fighter with limited boxing experience would knock his ass out with 4 oz gloves? That's another thing as well. It may sound biased, but doesn't it seem like some of these boxers posess more PHYSICHAL STRENGTH? Margarito fighting at 147...Looks like he weighs 170. I'm also willing to bet any *normal* 200 pound man would have have trouble handling him. SOme MMA fighters look like they'd be the same way (could handle a much larger man), but most (to me) do not.

your baiting arent you?... you must be???.. if not your absolutely kidding yourself..

[codeman99998]

Strength, and size doesn't matter? What ya talking about? If that were the case why does boxing have weight divisions? Why does UFC even have weight divisions? a bantamweight UFC outgrapples Tyson? Yeah, I'm sure he knows more moves, but somebody much bigger would just pick up the little guy, and snap him in half like a twig.
I remember there was a story with an old time bodybuilder being at a party. A guy who was very skilled in martial arts (much smaller) tries to pick a fight with him. He picks up the guy, and throws him down a flight of steps!
I do agree experience, knowledge, etc are more important than size/ strength, BUT there is a certain point trying to grapple somebody is MEANINGLESS! I consider myself very strong for 165 (I keep up with most 200 pounders at the gym for strength)...YET, if I had a 250 pd muscle man about to attack me I'm NOT grabbing the guy! I'm going to try to destroy him before he touches me, and if he does get ahold of me...Eyes, throat, balls! I'm not gonna try to wrestle around with him on the ground, and put him in a leg lock. Probably cuz 9/10 times I SIMPLY CANT!
I know my limitations...Much like how UFC fighters have theres!

Interesting viewpoint...

Hmm.. go watch UFC 1-4.

BJJ is specifically designed so smaller weaker opponents can beat bigger stronger opponents.

[Beebs]

Strength, and size doesn't matter? What ya talking about? If that were the case why does boxing have weight divisions? Why does UFC even have weight divisions? a bantamweight UFC outgrapples Tyson? Yeah, I'm sure he knows more moves, but somebody much bigger would just pick up the little guy, and snap him in half like a twig.
I remember there was a story with an old time bodybuilder being at a party. A guy who was very skilled in martial arts (much smaller) tries to pick a fight with him. He picks up the guy, and throws him down a flight of steps!
I do agree experience, knowledge, etc are more important than size/ strength, BUT there is a certain point trying to grapple somebody is MEANINGLESS! I consider myself very strong for 165 (I keep up with most 200 pounders at the gym for strength)...YET, if I had a 250 pd muscle man about to attack me I'm NOT grabbing the guy! I'm going to try to destroy him before he touches me, and if he does get ahold of me...Eyes, throat, balls! I'm not gonna try to wrestle around with him on the ground, and put him in a leg lock. Probably cuz 9/10 times I SIMPLY CANT!
I know my limitations...Much like how UFC fighters have theres!

Where the fuck did I say it doesn't matter? I said that given one is skilled and the other is a fucking nobody, it is easy to overcome.

Bob Sapp is about twice as strong as Tyson, Nog subbed him, and Fujita kicked his head into the second row.

Marcello Garcia has run through grappling positions in the absolute division against guys with 100 pounds on him, and those guys are world class grapplers.

MwticniZV4M
And Sapp is much stronger than Tyson and 1000000% more skilled of a grappler.

It's simple, just look at any grappling tourney; the winner of the absolute division is usually not the HW winner, and those guys are world class grapplers, Tyson doesn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch.

135lb Miguel Torres could kill, literally, Tyson in grappling, he could easily get a choke and not let go.

The average blue belt in bjj would easily submit Tyson in grappling.

I've seen so many juiced up former football players, bodybuilders, "tough guys", and even wrestlers who know grappling somewhat, get absolutely destroyed on the mat by people they outweigh by 50+ pounds. Size matters, but only if the two fighters are comparable in skill.

And stop with this "from my experience" bullshit, you have never stepped foot in a real gym, and you have never won a fight, so shut the fuck up idiot.

[Primenal]

Where the fuck did I say it doesn't matter? I said that given one is skilled and the other is a fucking nobody, it is easy to overcome.

Bob Sapp is about twice as strong as Tyson, Nog subbed him, and Fujita kicked his head into the second row.

Marcello Garcia has run through grappling positions in the absolute division against guys with 100 pounds on him, and those guys are world class grapplers.

MwticniZV4M
And Sapp is much stronger than Tyson and 1000000% more skilled of a grappler.

It's simple, just look at any grappling tourney; the winner of the absolute division is usually not the HW winner, and those guys are world class grapplers, Tyson doesn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch.

135lb Miguel Torres could kill, literally, Tyson in grappling, he could easily get a choke and not let go.

The average blue belt in bjj would easily submit Tyson in grappling.

I've seen so many juiced up former football players, bodybuilders, "tough guys", and even wrestlers who know grappling somewhat, get absolutely destroyed on the mat by people they outweigh by 50+ pounds. Size matters, but only if the two fighters are comparable in skill.

And stop with this "from my experience" bullshit, you have never stepped foot in a real gym, and you have never won a fight, so shut the fuck up idiot.

Bob Sapp is a disgrace! I was using Tyson vs highly unskilled fighter as an example because that's what you guys keep posting. Your like..MMA fighter beats a boxer...Check out this video of the highly skilled, intense machine....BUTTERBEAN! Watch him get his little stubby legs kicked off by somebody he shouldn't be in the ring with! Your guys examples are just as weak as me saying Tyson vs sucky mma fighter.
I was using it to say a boxer could win a MMA match (it isn't impossible). I'm sure an elite MMA guy with good hands could beat the crappiest pro boxers as well. I do agree you put an elite Tyson vs any MMA (UFC whatever you want to use) elite he loses quite badly in an MMA match!

[Beebs]

Bob Sapp is a disgrace! I was using Tyson vs highly unskilled fighter as an example because that's what you guys keep posting. Your like..MMA fighter beats a boxer...Check out this video of the highly skilled, intense machine....BUTTERBEAN! Watch him get his little stubby legs kicked off by somebody he shouldn't be in the ring with! Your guys examples are just as weak as me saying Tyson vs sucky mma fighter.
I was using it to say a boxer could win a MMA match (it isn't impossible). I'm sure an elite MMA guy with good hands could beat the crappiest pro boxers as well. I do agree you put an elite Tyson vs any MMA (UFC whatever you want to use) elite he loses quite badly in an MMA match!

I was talking about once the fight hit the ground, the premis was that tyson would be to strong to grapple, not that he could never win an mma fight, just that even the smallest skilled grappler would run through him like a hot knife through butter if the fight went to the ground.

[Primenal]

I was talking about once the fight hit the ground, the premis was that tyson would be to strong to grapple, not that he could never win an mma fight, just that even the smallest skilled grappler would run through him like a hot knife through butter if the fight went to the ground.

I dunno about all that really. You seriously think say a 120-130 pd man is going to choke out a 230 pd man? I know in heavyweight you get shit like all the time (a person weighing 100 more pds submitting another), but it's kind of different at heavyweight in all sports. Seems like smaller divisions are more skilled, quicker, and there seems to be a big difference between sizes. As for heavyweight..There less skilled usually, some are simply overweight slow slobs, and seems like any guy who weighs over 220 (that's in good shape at least) is quite powerful. In boxing somebody like Tyson, Ali beat a lot of people bigger than them. In MMA it's the same way.
The saying is never more true though "A good big guy beats a good small guy." Bob Sapp is a crappy big guy. Valuev is a crappy big guy. You can't rate performances by these guys.
And yes I'm sure Tyson doesn't have grappling experience. He has plenty of street fighting experience, and I'm sure all those fights weren't on his feet. Like I said strong, in his prime, and even if some 130 pounder does get him down (not sure how), but that little dude better be badass, and jump him quick to keep him down. I just don't see it happening unless there one of the absolute BEST IN THE WORLD!
Like I said most of these fights where an MMA elite taps out a giant..The giant is HORRIBLE. They all have huge flaws. There uncoordinated, they lack heart, aggression, skill, stamina, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a fight in any sport where 2 people were about evenly matched...Except for one guy being MUCH bigger, and the smaller guy wins. Not saying Tyson vs highly skilled grappler is even or anything, but saying Tyson (in his prime) isn't a CAN that's going to lay down

[Wilhelm]

I dunno about all that really.

:good:nod

[codeman99998]

You seriously think say a 120-130 pd man is going to choke out a 230 pd man?

Really? A small child, when climbing on your back the right way, can choke a man quite a bit. I recall my niece on my back while playing and telling her that she has to hold on differently because she was choking me.

A 120lb man could definitely choke out anyone in the world, providing he was skilled enough.

[ufoalf]

I was 230 with HS wrestling, got choked by a 135lb black belt in about a minute.

[Beebs]

I dunno about all that really. You seriously think say a 120-130 pd man is going to choke out a 230 pd man? I know in heavyweight you get shit like all the time (a person weighing 100 more pds submitting another), but it's kind of different at heavyweight in all sports. Seems like smaller divisions are more skilled, quicker, and there seems to be a big difference between sizes. As for heavyweight..There less skilled usually, some are simply overweight slow slobs, and seems like any guy who weighs over 220 (that's in good shape at least) is quite powerful. In boxing somebody like Tyson, Ali beat a lot of people bigger than them. In MMA it's the same way.
The saying is never more true though "A good big guy beats a good small guy." Bob Sapp is a crappy big guy. Valuev is a crappy big guy. You can't rate performances by these guys.
And yes I'm sure Tyson doesn't have grappling experience. He has plenty of street fighting experience, and I'm sure all those fights weren't on his feet. Like I said strong, in his prime, and even if some 130 pounder does get him down (not sure how), but that little dude better be badass, and jump him quick to keep him down. I just don't see it happening unless there one of the absolute BEST IN THE WORLD!
Like I said most of these fights where an MMA elite taps out a giant..The giant is HORRIBLE. They all have huge flaws. There uncoordinated, they lack heart, aggression, skill, stamina, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a fight in any sport where 2 people were about evenly matched...Except for one guy being MUCH bigger, and the smaller guy wins. Not saying Tyson vs highly skilled grappler is even or anything, but saying Tyson (in his prime) isn't a CAN that's going to lay down

Yes, easily.

If you think otherwise, you have never stepped foot in a grappling gym, period.

The takedown would require some work, but you said even when they were on the ground Tyson would be "too strong"; that is just flat out fucking stupid.

I believe "pick them up and snap them like a twig" was the exact phrase; if you believe that you should go try and grapple the smallest person at your local BJJ academy.

There has never been, is not now, and will never be, a man too strong to be outgrappled.